1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Computer. 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,280 And good morning, I'm Andy Johnson. 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,680 This is the Reading Instruction Show. 4 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,920 And today we have a very special guest in our studio, 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,440 which isn't a studio, it's just my office, 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,600 Stephanie Beer. 7 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,200 And Stephanie used to be a teacher, 8 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,200 but now she's a literacy advocate. 9 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,480 So Stephanie, introduce yourself. 10 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,120 Thank you, Andy, I'm glad to be here. 11 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,960 And this is my office, my bedroom where the door is closed 12 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,880 and my kids will hopefully not interrupt me. 13 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,480 I am a parent of three children. 14 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:37,980 I was a former teacher, but then after my last child was born, 15 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:39,920 figured that I couldn't do best practices 16 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,080 plus force mandates and then come home healthy. 17 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,600 So I became an education activist 18 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 and have now been working with a variety of things, 19 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,200 but also including my, helping my children 20 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,280 on their literary journey through school. 21 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Their literacy journey, literary journey, both of them. 22 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,040 Interesting. 23 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Now, what was it that caused you to leave the classroom? 24 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,280 A lot of force mandates, particularly around 25 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,920 the lot of testing, data collecting, screening of kids 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,840 and what to me seemed more like a deficit model. 27 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,840 And me having to put into place a lot of busy work 28 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,040 that really did not tell me much 29 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,440 about what the child was doing in the classroom. 30 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,160 I teaching is scholarly work. 31 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:26,440 You have to put a lot into it. 32 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,400 I've read like, I know you're a fan of Dr. Allenton, 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,000 read all of his work and used his work in the classroom 34 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:32,840 and it worked. 35 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,960 And so it was very effective, 36 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,200 but I couldn't do that plus what I consider poor practices. 37 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:40,720 It just didn't make sense. 38 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,800 So I, and to be with my children at home, 39 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,840 I needed to come home happy and I couldn't do that. 40 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,280 Yeah, educational malpractice. 41 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,720 Teachers are being forced to commit educational malpractice. 42 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,640 Yeah, and it's hard. 43 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,000 It is very hard. 44 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,200 It's very hard and it's driving good teachers, 45 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,600 master teachers from the classroom and that's a crime. 46 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,200 I loved being in the classroom 47 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,840 and the brilliance of each child in that classroom 48 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:10,920 was amazing. 49 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:12,560 It kept me going every day. 50 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,000 But unfortunately, classrooms have almost come more factory 51 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,720 like we're trying to get out of the factory model, 52 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,400 but it's like, okay, if they don't do well on this, 53 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,240 then this is where they go. 54 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,040 If they do well, then this is, you know, 55 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,600 they don't really have a lot of advocacy or agency 56 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,720 in the classroom anymore. 57 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:27,760 Yes. 58 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,280 The only remedy is they're going down a conveyor belt 59 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,680 is to send them back and run them through the conveyor belt 60 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:33,640 again. 61 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:37,240 Tell me more about the standardized test madness. 62 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,520 Do standardized tests actually tell you what to teach? 63 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Well, they would like for you to do that. 64 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,880 I know I have to laugh because when I was, 65 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,240 my second child was born, I came back from maternity leave 66 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,360 and we had student conferences. 67 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,960 And I did parent or student driven conferences. 68 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,200 So they led the conference. 69 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,280 I did not realize we were supposed to show 70 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,360 the map test results. 71 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,920 And so instead I didn't do that. 72 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,160 And I found it afterwards we were supposed to, 73 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,160 but it's a number. 74 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,760 In fact, when I was driving with my daughter 75 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,200 and a couple of her friends, 76 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,960 my kids don't take the standardized tests. 77 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,840 They don't do any of the screenings. 78 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,960 I really believe that they're okay because of this 79 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,760 because I do feel that they would have been considered deficit 80 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,480 because they were late readers. 81 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,280 And we're all of a sudden saying that kids have to be reading 82 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:24,400 at four or five. 83 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,440 But anyways, we were in the car with a bunch of her friends 84 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,400 and they were all wondering what score 85 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,480 they had gotten on this map test. 86 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,040 And they thought that the highest score 87 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,960 made them the better reader. 88 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,760 And I just looked at my daughter and she's like, 89 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,760 oh yeah, now I get why you don't want me to be, 90 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,480 because that doesn't tell me anything. 91 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,640 And I always would like walk around 92 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,480 when kids are taking the map and read some of the questions 93 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,040 and I'm like, where are they going with this? 94 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,400 And here's the other funny thing, 95 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,480 when my son is a third grader, 96 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,440 he doesn't take, like I said, the test, 97 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,600 but they of course have to do all this test prep. 98 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,560 And this was at the beginning of the COVID 99 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:01,400 where we were at home. 100 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,240 And so on the Google sheet, 101 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,600 he had a document worth multiple choice questions. 102 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,000 And he was just struggling and he was feeling really down 103 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,320 because he couldn't get the answers right. 104 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,560 So I took the test. 105 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,840 I did worse than you did. 106 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,600 On these multiple choice reading, 107 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,520 if more parents actually looked at these test questions, 108 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,280 I think they would go, seriously, 109 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,520 you think we have a reading problem? 110 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,320 I think we have a testing problem. 111 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,320 We have a testing problem. 112 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,160 So you're able to ask that your children 113 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,560 not be part of the testing. 114 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,320 Minnesota, you can opt out of the test. 115 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,920 And I have chosen also, 116 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,120 because I think we consider the standardized test, 117 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,960 only the Minnesota test, the state test, 118 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,400 but I also consider maps. 119 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,440 I don't want my kids also to do like IXL, 120 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,960 any computerized programs for various reasons, 121 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,960 because I want my kids to be readers. 122 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,240 I don't want them to be good test takers. 123 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,960 And I feel like because of that, like I said, 124 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,640 they still have had some struggles with their reading journey 125 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,200 because of what I would consider mandates, 126 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,960 but yet they don't necessarily see themselves as losers 127 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,640 because they don't have this test 128 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,080 to determine who they are as a reader. 129 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,080 Well, let's talk about that literacy journey 130 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,560 or literary journey in just a minute, 131 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:22,040 but the very point of spending time to prepare for a test, 132 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,560 yes, it's a waste of time, but it invalidates the test. 133 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,920 If the test is based on a normal population 134 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,440 and a normal distribution of scores, 135 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,960 all of a sudden some groups are preparing 136 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,720 and some groups aren't. 137 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,800 So you are invalidating that test simply by preparing them 138 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,280 for the test. 139 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:45,280 That's one of the problems with it. 140 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,720 As well, where do these questions come from? 141 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,720 In Minnesota, these questions come from the literacy standards, 142 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,720 Minnesota academic English language arts standards, 143 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,400 and look at the standards. 144 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,080 They have nothing to do with reading in the real world, 145 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,080 but someone decided that these should be used. 146 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,080 All right, you still, all right, all right. 147 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,640 Steph, you're going to tell me, 148 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,840 and you're on mute right now, you're going to tell me about, 149 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,280 so your children's literacy journey, 150 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:22,640 the oldest one is in what grade, how old? 151 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,640 She will be a junior. 152 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,160 And then I have another one who will be a ninth grader 153 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,240 and the youngest will be a seventh grader. 154 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,520 All of them late readers, they came into kindergarten 155 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,720 not knowing all of their alphabet. 156 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,960 And I do remember once sitting at the, 157 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,840 after school waiting for them to come out, 158 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,200 and this one parent was so stressed 159 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,200 because their child wasn't reading at the age of five 160 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,840 and just she wanted to get a tutor and all of this. 161 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:48,880 And I just looked at her and said, 162 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,400 hey, I'm a teacher, my kid's not even, 163 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,240 doesn't even have the alphabet down. 164 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,680 And it was just like, this like seriously, 165 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,960 because there's so much pressure on parents 166 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,040 that their kids are considered defective 167 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,720 if they're not reading by that particular age. 168 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,560 And there's a really good, 169 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,960 I don't know if you're familiar with Defend the Early Years, 170 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,880 but there's an article out there, 171 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Little to Gain and Much to Lose. 172 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,640 And it talks about how in kindergarten, 173 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,720 if you have a kid reading, 174 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,000 starting reading at six or seven, 175 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,560 and they are caught up by the age 11 176 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,040 for a kid who's reading at four or five. 177 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:25,720 The stress in kindergarten, 178 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,920 the kind of guy you should look like first grade. 179 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,280 That would have been really, really, 180 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,280 it doesn't. 181 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,680 You're breaking up on me a little bit, Stephanie. 182 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,440 She's breaking up on me. 183 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,240 As we wait for her to come back, 184 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,160 kindergarten shouldn't look like first grade 185 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,720 because kindergarten is kindergarten 186 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,360 and first grade is first grade. 187 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,120 It's not developmentally appropriate 188 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,600 to have a push down curriculum. 189 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:58,240 And I'm gonna stop the recording here. 190 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,240 Sure. 191 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,600 All right. 192 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,680 We had a little something was happening. 193 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,480 All right, your children left kindergarten, 194 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,200 deficit model, what's wrong with them 195 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,480 because they don't know their letters or whatever. 196 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,000 So tell me about how... 197 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,720 Well, fortunately, 198 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,400 they didn't leave with the deficit model 199 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,040 because they weren't screened. 200 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,920 I refuse all of the testing 201 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,640 that I was okay with testing 202 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,320 that gave teachers information, 203 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,000 but I wasn't okay with teachers information, 204 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,360 but I wasn't okay with it for labeling. 205 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Was not gonna do that. 206 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,680 Anything that was standard or... 207 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,720 We live in a country that we're supposed to be individualized 208 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,960 and yet we really push our kids to all be on the same page. 209 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,480 I don't make, doesn't make sense to me, 210 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,040 but my middle child was very much in... 211 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,600 She did have some glitches, 212 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:48,760 what I would say in the reading, 213 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,360 but I was very fortunate 214 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,520 that she had the same kindergarten and first grade teacher. 215 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,120 And I remember her first grade teacher coming out to me, 216 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,280 she goes, Steph, 217 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,120 I just feel that she could use some help with reading, 218 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,080 but I knew what that would be. 219 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,040 It would be pulling out with an aid 220 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,000 and it would be phonics and just strictly phonics. 221 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,640 And I said, no, I said she's young. 222 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:12,800 She's a July birthday, 223 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,560 so she's actually very young for her age. 224 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:16,640 And the teacher said, yeah, 225 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,360 I mean, she wanted to put her in the higher reading group 226 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,280 because of her insight, 227 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,840 her meaning making, 228 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,920 but the physical pieces of writing, 229 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,960 a reading weren't working for her. 230 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,600 And I know like in fourth grade, 231 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,400 the teacher was going, yeah, she's great at comprehension, 232 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,120 but when she reads out loud, she just really gets... 233 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,840 And I'm like, well, I don't know that that's a skill 234 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,680 that you need in real life, reading out loud so much. 235 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:40,280 And by fifth grade, she was fine. 236 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,240 And now I've just shared with you 237 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,560 that she's got this cute little journal 238 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:46,600 that she puts her favorite quotes in. 239 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,040 She's also, you know, reading level, I don't go by that 240 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,840 because do you know what reading level you're at, Andy? 241 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,080 Do you know your reading level? 242 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,600 Right. 243 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,120 So I don't go by that, 244 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:57,760 but I go instead by what she like, 245 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,960 she came down the other day, two days ago, 246 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:01,200 kind of just like drained. 247 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,560 And I go, what were you doing? 248 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,080 I just finished a book. 249 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,760 She goes and I was crying. 250 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,320 And I go, isn't that amazing 251 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,320 that a writer can make you cry like that? 252 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,000 That to me, it tells me she's a literate person. 253 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,840 Why don't you show the journal you have? 254 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,080 Yeah, it's really cool. 255 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,400 So she does, she's got this little journal. 256 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,960 This isn't her only one, but she has, she'll draw 257 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,920 and she'll put various quotes in there. 258 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,760 So she has it pretty much filled out, 259 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,440 but she'll put different quotes that she likes 260 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,560 and she'll have drawings with it. 261 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:36,520 So I mean, to me, that's someone 262 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,440 who's on her literary journey. 263 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,680 She's interacting with books. 264 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:43,160 And she can, interacting with books. 265 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,000 And pulling out, you know, when I was in the classroom, 266 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,760 we had a wall that said, writing on the wall. 267 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,280 When students found passages that they thought were just like, 268 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,080 wow, this is amazing. 269 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,160 They'd put it up on the wall. 270 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,200 Fun. 271 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 So how did she become this avid reader? 272 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,720 What was your secret or your, what happened? 273 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,720 Well, like I said, I was fortunate. 274 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,840 When I, like I told you that the teacher was saying 275 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:09,760 that she needed this help. 276 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,080 And I said, you know, but she's so young. 277 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,200 The teacher, I could just see her go, you're right Steph. 278 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,880 She is young and I am being pushed 279 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,520 by so many of these mandates that I can't sell, 280 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,280 but she goes, but you are absolutely right. 281 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,400 We will continue to do what we're doing. 282 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,800 And she was fine. 283 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,920 But we've read, I've got like a whole list of the books 284 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,360 that we read aloud. 285 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,360 I've read the whole sister's grim books, 286 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,560 the unicorn chronicles. 287 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:37,240 So a lot of reading out loud. 288 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,800 I would do a lot of reading with her. 289 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,880 I don't know if you're familiar with the Piggy and Elephant 290 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,320 books, but we would take those books. 291 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,600 Mo Williams and we would re, I wish she would be Piggy. 292 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,440 I'd be elephant. 293 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,240 We would do a lot of reading around. 294 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,520 We would, and guess what? 295 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,080 I use the queuing system when she read 296 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,040 and she said something that didn't make sense. 297 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:55,960 I'm like, hold it. 298 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,560 And I wouldn't always be right next to her. 299 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,600 I said, what you just read totally didn't make sense to me. 300 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,760 So she would go back, reread it and slow down. 301 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,680 We would work through words that she didn't know. 302 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,280 And yeah, we use phonics sometimes 303 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,800 to figure out those words, 304 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,600 but we did a lot of meaning making reading, 305 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,080 but it wasn't laborious. 306 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,880 We never sat down and drilled her. 307 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,240 Never. It was all about fun. 308 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,640 It was all about finding her interest area. 309 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,560 Monics can be learned in the context of good books. 310 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:29,080 And systems is just recognizing the brain uses 311 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,760 three interacting systems to recognize words. 312 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Something as simple as- 313 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,840 We use it all the time. 314 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Yeah. What makes sense in the sentence? 315 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,360 That is developing the semantic queuing system. 316 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,200 And if anything, I feel like we're not, you know, like, 317 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,440 and then so my son is a different story. 318 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,560 He's had more, he's the seventh grader 319 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:50,960 and he's had more of this, the mandates. 320 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,360 I would say even SOR, Science of Reading before this. 321 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,360 And right now I consider him a reluctant reader. 322 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,080 It's not something he enjoys. 323 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:58,920 He'll be okay. 324 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,720 He's going to be okay. 325 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,800 But he's the one that just, 326 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,080 it's really hard for me to get him to love literacy right now, 327 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,680 but he's okay. 328 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,680 And with that, go ahead. 329 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,400 What kinds of things does he like to read? 330 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,160 Well, and that I've been scouring the bookshelves 331 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,440 for everything that we can find. 332 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,280 Right now his big book is The Five Nights at Freddie Books. 333 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,120 I don't know if you're familiar with that, but yeah. 334 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,680 And he, so he's really big on that. 335 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,680 We've read the Bad Guy series. 336 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:33,320 And that also is a situation where he'll read a page maybe 337 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,220 and then I'll read a page. 338 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:37,080 We do a lot of modeling when we come across a word. 339 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,040 He's not sure if he doesn't have the queuing system as is. 340 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,480 He'll just read on, which I find with a lot of students 341 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,080 and he won't bother to stop and go, 342 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,440 oh, that doesn't make sense. 343 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,880 He'll just keep reading. 344 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,320 And I'm the one that stops him and say, 345 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,240 hey, you know, figure that out. 346 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,320 And I just wanted to give you a little quiz, Zandi. 347 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,160 Okay. 348 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,280 I'm going to read a passage from one of these Friday nights 349 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,000 at Freddie Books and you tell me if you can figure out 350 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,840 what this word is that I am going to read here. 351 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:04,880 Okay. 352 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920 I could have you arrested for tr... 353 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:08,760 Press passing. 354 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:09,640 What are your kids doing here? 355 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:10,480 Oh, hold it. 356 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:11,300 Why? 357 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:12,140 How did you know that word? 358 00:14:12,140 --> 00:14:14,720 Because I've been arrested a lot? 359 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:15,560 No, I haven't. 360 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,000 But even like when he, 361 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,560 when we would go through certain words, 362 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,920 like the word neighbor. 363 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,040 Now, if you look at the word neighbor in phonics, 364 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,880 how do you figure that word out? 365 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,680 How do you possibly figure that word out? 366 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:29,520 Yes. 367 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,960 You need the context around it to get that. 368 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,520 And so he, we would do, but we would still look like 369 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,040 trespassing, you can see a little like ASS being 370 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,600 at the end of it. 371 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,320 You know, is it treat passing or is it, you know? 372 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,160 So we would look at all of those things, 373 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,960 but it was really about him finding those strategies 374 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,640 that worked for him. 375 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,000 And like I said, that like his first grade, 376 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,480 his first grade teacher, first of all, 377 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,320 30 kids in the classroom, ridiculous. 378 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,840 Second of all, I think it's SRA. 379 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,720 It's the, you know, where you read a passage 380 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000 and then if you pass that, you go on to the next. 381 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,960 So it really wasn't any engagement. 382 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,240 So it was really, you know, this SRR is bringing back 383 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,760 a lot of old practices that we know don't work. 384 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,800 And he did get, they got a phonics program in there. 385 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,000 And he's like, I don't know why, you know, 386 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000 I don't understand what this is all about. 387 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,840 And so it's just, it's mind boggling to me, 388 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,760 but we're blaming so many things, 389 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,600 but we're not blaming like personalized learning 390 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,720 was this new districts policy. 391 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,920 They had a Bill Gates person come in and say, 392 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,880 oh, we're doing amazing things with this. 393 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,320 That has nothing to do with actual literacy. 394 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Yes. 395 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,400 You know, what you are doing, asking your son 396 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,360 to look for word parts that they recognize, 397 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,080 that's large unit phonics. 398 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,560 And the national reading says synthetic phonics, 399 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,000 analytic phonics, large unit phonics, 400 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,800 one is not better than the other. 401 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,000 They should all be taught. 402 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,960 And analyzing words that they're reading, 403 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,240 that's analytic phonics. 404 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,760 And to teach a strategy, look for parts that you know, 405 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,440 that's analogy, that is a word recognition strategy. 406 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,600 So they came in Bill Gates and again, 407 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,840 because someone is- 408 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,120 They had one of his consultants. 409 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Yeah, because someone is an expert in business, 410 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,360 we call on them to help us understand education. 411 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,520 And teachers never exploited third world countries 412 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,400 for labor or polluted rivers. 413 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,440 Why in heaven's name would we ask someone 414 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,160 from business who's an expert in business things, 415 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,840 not having children's learning things about learning? 416 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,120 Yeah, it's about money. 417 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,840 She's putting her fingers together. 418 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,160 And I wanna- 419 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,000 Go ahead. 420 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,520 So, you know, we say that I did like a reading 421 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,000 and writing workshop in my classroom. 422 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,960 I wanna also make sure that we understand 423 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:53,800 the power of writing. 424 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,160 I was part of the National Writing Project, 425 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,840 which was an intensive summer program. 426 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,960 And so as a teacher, I really, really worked hard 427 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,800 on understanding product or process. 428 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:04,880 Process. 429 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,560 She wasn't getting that anymore. 430 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,320 It's very much chunked up. 431 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,080 Fluency, fluency is huge. 432 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,560 And it would be, and my point is, 433 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,920 I never saw balanced reading literacy 434 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,400 in my children's classroom. 435 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,080 They got ploniphonics, they got word recall. 436 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,960 They got a lot of, like I said, fluency. 437 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,440 And I'm like, you know, my oldest daughter, 438 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,120 they wanted to have her go after school for fluency, 439 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:29,080 just practice fluency. 440 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,280 And I said, nah, not gonna do it. 441 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,920 You know, she's, here's, I'll tell you what, 442 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,840 her thing now is that all of her friends 443 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,280 went to Barnes & Noble, bought a book. 444 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,240 They bought a different colored pen 445 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:40,960 and they're now writing comments in that. 446 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,600 And then they're sharing them with each other 447 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,880 so they can have conversations about these books. 448 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,280 What a cool idea is that. 449 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,520 That's a literate daughter. 450 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,800 That's not someone who is focused on just fluency. 451 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,440 I mean, I just don't understand some of the things 452 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,280 that we're doing and it's not balanced literacy. 453 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,040 You know, Steph, I interviewed a teacher last night 454 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,000 and she said the same, 455 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,880 she was involved in the writing project as well. 456 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:06,720 Oh yeah. 457 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:07,720 What a coincidence. 458 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,080 And she said, well, it's been shown 459 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,920 that there is a strong reading and writing connection. 460 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,920 One enhances it. 461 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,400 Absolutely. 462 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,360 And writing is mistaught and undertaught. 463 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:22,720 Yes. 464 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,560 And my son in particular has not had writing. 465 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,880 And then they've gone back to doing just the grammar, 466 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,040 making it all about. 467 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,480 And like I loved Katie Wood Ray's book, Study Driven, 468 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,280 where we'd had a unit on punctuation, 469 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,680 or on grammar, punctuation. 470 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,000 I would take out all of the period, 471 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,160 or punctuation out of a particular story. 472 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,040 We tried to read it and we're like, okay. 473 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,480 So we discovered. 474 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,440 And it was really, I mean, 475 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,400 we had some strong writers in that class 476 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,920 and we would constantly be revising and editing 477 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,920 Ralph Fletcher. 478 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,240 And my son is not, he can't, 479 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,920 writing is not his strength. 480 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,960 And I get it because he's never had the practice to do it. 481 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:02,920 What a neat idea. 482 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,440 Boy, I wish you were in a classroom someplace. 483 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,560 I would love to be in the classroom. 484 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,360 And that's what really pains me, 485 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,480 is good teachers like you are being driven out. 486 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,720 You can't learn, teachers of writing need to write. 487 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,280 You need to take piano lessons 488 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,280 from someone who didn't play the piano. 489 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,000 Absolutely. 490 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,160 We need to teach the process. 491 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:28,680 Absolutely. 492 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,520 Instead of just to start. 493 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,200 And more importantly, 494 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,280 we have to give ownership back to the students. 495 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,000 I really feel in this mandated world, 496 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,440 I feel like they're going through the system 497 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,440 versus it giving them the tools and skills they need, 498 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,680 but them to be active. 499 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,560 I don't feel like there's active learning going on right now. 500 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,720 Learning is something being done to them. 501 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:51,480 Yes. 502 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,880 And it's, well, and I don't even know if it's learning 503 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,960 to be honest with you, but it's painful. 504 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,560 I fear for our little children, 505 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,600 we talk about the high schools 506 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,440 and kids having a lot of mental health issues. 507 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,640 And when we're pushing them at such a young age 508 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,560 to do something, why aren't we having kids 509 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,160 all walk at that nine months? 510 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Yes. 511 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,240 Maybe if they're all walking at nine months, 512 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,640 we should start screening them at six months. 513 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,400 And if they're not doing certain things that, 514 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,440 I mean, can you imagine how painful that is? 515 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,440 A child wants to go into the classroom 516 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,560 and they want to love it. 517 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,400 And then we take that away when the first day 518 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,320 we're screening them and then we say they're deficient. 519 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,280 Interesting. 520 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,720 Who wants to, who wants to, who's motivated by that? 521 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,200 Right, deficiency model. 522 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,520 So what advice would you give parents? 523 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:42,360 What advice? 524 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,280 What do you want to say to parents? 525 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,280 To trust the process and to not take those tests 526 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,400 because they don't tell you much. 527 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,680 If it, well, and I want to be great 528 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,280 if we could opt in to this testing. 529 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,280 The first, the daughter, my middle child, when she did, 530 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,920 you know, they were talking about struggles. 531 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,920 I did actually find a teacher who I know 532 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,680 who's very respected and expert in the field 533 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,120 but was not in the classroom. 534 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,000 And I had her sit down with my daughter 535 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,920 and have her do some reading, 536 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,360 authentic reading kinds of assessments. 537 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,080 And she said, Steph, she's fine. 538 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,400 She's going to be fine. 539 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,640 She's going to be fine. So let's go back 540 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,720 to real authentic assessments that help. 541 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:23,720 Let's maybe opt. 542 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,920 If you feel like you need to have this, 543 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,680 but I would refuse the test. 544 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,240 Let your child go in with joy. 545 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:30,360 Let them the first day, you know, 546 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,120 the first day they usually go back like a 30 minute 547 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,480 and they do these, all of these tests for your kid. 548 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,040 Just let them go on and meet the teacher, 549 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,800 get to know the classroom, you know, things like that. 550 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,760 That to me is what I would say, 551 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,680 don't worry about if your child isn't reading 552 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,640 by the age of five, 553 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,000 isn't reading by the age of six, let them discover, 554 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,720 let them explore. 555 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,280 And what can parents do at home? 556 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,240 Do a lot of reading with them, find joy. 557 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,120 We would read books over and over and over again, 558 00:21:58,120 --> 00:21:59,360 particularly the ones they love, 559 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,160 like I said, with the elephant and piggy books. 560 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,480 Yeah, we would play, act play. 561 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,720 We would do things like that. 562 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,120 We would talk, we would, I would say, 563 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,240 okay, what is this about? 564 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,280 Or what, you know, we would have conversations 565 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,320 about the book, but we also, like I said, 566 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,240 like you were talking about in regards to words, 567 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:16,080 they didn't know. 568 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,280 We would do a variety of different things to say, 569 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,520 okay, this is how you learn these words, you know. 570 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:22,880 But just find joy in literacy. 571 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,240 They see me, my oldest daughter gave me this book. 572 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,040 She made this for me, it's a reading journal. 573 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,120 She knows me as a reader and she has little tabs in it. 574 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,760 She has my book list, she has my favorite books, 575 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,040 reading thoughts, you know? 576 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,160 So I myself, so this is what she created for me. 577 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,320 And so yeah, so and give them experiences, 578 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,160 let them play. 579 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,640 We know that the power of play is so important 580 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,520 and yet we're taking it away from them. 581 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,640 Yep, they're not just Sarah Bellum sitting in a row, 582 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,240 as they're emotional, social, intellectual, 583 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,520 creative beings. 584 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,200 So what advice would you have for classroom teachers 585 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,400 that are out there struggling with these mandarin? 586 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,280 To get involved with Thandi Johnson and the ILOC, 587 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,480 International Literacy Educators Coalition. 588 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,840 I think that it's powerful because it gives us a voice, 589 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,080 a collective voice. 590 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,320 I think, you know, like I've had teachers reach out to me 591 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,040 because I'm no longer in the classroom, they say, 592 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,800 I can't say this, but can you say this for me? 593 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,920 And so then I go out and I will, I'll publicize, 594 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,280 my face are various places, I'll say, you know, 595 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:29,800 this is what's happening. 596 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,360 I'm hoping that we can, the outside, 597 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,160 unfortunately teachers are scared and I get it. 598 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,840 I mean, good grief, they've got so many things coming. 599 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,200 You go into a convenience store these days and it says, 600 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,720 please be nice to the people we're doing our best. 601 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,760 Teachers have like that times a million. 602 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,440 And so I would say reach out to people 603 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,040 who maybe aren't in the classroom, 604 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,000 tell us what's going on and we'll advocate for you 605 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,080 if you can't. 606 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,320 But if you can try to, yeah, I don't know, Andy, 607 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,320 I don't know what to tell you on that because I got, 608 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,160 I can't say much because I got out of the classroom. 609 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,520 I admire teachers who are still in it. 610 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,080 People don't realize how hard teachers work. 611 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,480 How stressful it can be. 612 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,880 And they're wasting $100 million on the science 613 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,720 of reading Boondoggle when it could have been used 614 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,200 to have smaller class sizes. 615 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,720 Absolutely. 616 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,720 And educate, you know, we know that there are places 617 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,240 that have really, I taught in Sioux Falls, South Dakota 618 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,560 and we were constantly going into each other's classrooms 619 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,960 and looking at what people were doing. 620 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,720 We were constantly reading, journal, you know, 621 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,280 professional articles. 622 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,080 We were active research is what we were doing. 623 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,560 You know, put your investment in that 624 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,960 because that's where it's gonna go. 625 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,000 It's not a program. 626 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,080 Yes, there's no program in the world. 627 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,560 Action research is teacher directed research 628 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,960 where they do research in their classroom 629 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,360 and often they connect to the research literature. 630 00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,960 I guess the one thing I would say for teachers 631 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,080 is not to look at maps, you know, 632 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,920 if you feel like you have to look at it, 633 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,200 but don't look at what you're doing in the classroom, 634 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,200 look at what your children are doing in the classroom, 635 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,280 your students and that is the best indicator 636 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,120 of where they're going to be and what they're doing. 637 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,760 A doctor is assessed by patient outcome 638 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,400 or by patient, by his practice, what he does. 639 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,200 Some, they have different outcomes. 640 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,120 Teacher should be assessed and valued 641 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,440 by what they do in the classroom, 642 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,960 by the strategies and processes they have. 643 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,800 All right, one of the things- 644 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,240 And look at the strengths of the students. 645 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,920 Look at the strengths of the students, 646 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,360 what they're doing well. 647 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:38,680 Get to know them. 648 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,080 All right, one last question for you, Steph. 649 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,240 I'm working with pre-service teachers. 650 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,600 What advice do you have for them? 651 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,680 I'm gonna show them this, by the way. 652 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960 Oh, take a deep breath. 653 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,120 Take a hi. 654 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,280 Take a deep breath. 655 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:57,960 Find the joy in each child that you're working with. 656 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,720 Get to know them and listen to the research 657 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,880 and listen to Andy and what he's giving you. 658 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,440 Read Richard Allenton, 659 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,640 read all of these professional people 660 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,960 who know what they're doing. 661 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,080 And Andy, just for your sake, 662 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,720 my daughter just told me that she wants to be a teacher. 663 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,680 So we have six years to fix this. 664 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,200 She's working with students this summer 665 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,360 and she's just loving it. 666 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,960 She loves what she sees in each child 667 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,200 and what their brilliance. 668 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,400 And so if she's gonna go into it, 669 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,200 I need to make sure that she knows what she's getting into. 670 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,360 What really keeps me going and brings me joy 671 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,200 is interacting and finding teachers. 672 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,040 In my graduate classes, I see them 673 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,240 and their eyes light up when they talk about their kids 674 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,880 and what they're doing in the classrooms. 675 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,960 That really is what keeps me going in this. 676 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,280 All right. 677 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,880 Steph, fear, I wish you well. 678 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,440 Thank you. 679 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,200 Literacy, advocacy, 680 00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:04,760 and this has been the Reading Instruction Show.