1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,940 This is the reading instruction show. I'm your host as always Dr. Andy Johnson. The topic of today's podcast is 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,000 reading instruction 3 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:15,880 behaviorism and the science of reading. Now 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,360 children are not always aware of their emotions. 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,200 They sometimes don't know why they're feeling their feelings and 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,600 they're not always able to express their feelings using words. 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,960 But children do communicate. It's just not with words. 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:46,920 Sometimes the behaviors of children tell us things that they may not be able to express or which they may not fully understand. 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,760 In the classroom, if children are bored, 10 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,160 frustrated, shamed or humiliated, 11 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,840 it's a natural thing for them to act out. 12 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:06,920 They're communicating. They're saying with their behaviors. I'm bored. I'm frustrated. I feel shame. 13 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,800 I feel humiliated and I'm sick of being made to feel stupid. 14 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,240 Negative behaviors are sometimes a positive response to a negative situation. 15 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:25,640 Now think about what you do when you're in a meeting and somebody rambles on and on about nothing. 16 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:32,240 Or if you're listening to a boring speech and the speaker says in conclusion about eight times before 17 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,880 finally concluding, 18 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:37,200 what do your behaviors begin to look like? 19 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:42,040 Do you sit there smiling and listening attentively? 20 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:48,160 And think about when the people in IT assume you should know something that you have never heard of before. 21 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:55,040 Or if they tell you just to click on the red button on top of the page, but there is no red button. 22 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:02,840 Think about how you react if a person is driving slow in the passing lane on the freeway and you can't pass. 23 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:11,040 What about the person at the stoplight who's looking at their cell phone and doesn't see that the light has changed? 24 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,040 The light has changed to green. 25 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,040 Do you smile and say, thank you? 26 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:23,040 I'm guessing you don't and I'm guessing that most of you aren't eight years old either. 27 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,040 Children communicate with their behaviors. 28 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,040 But in the world of school, what happens then? 29 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,040 We blame them for their behaviors. 30 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,040 We try to make their behaviors go away. 31 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:44,040 We say to them, you bad children, you your behavior is bad. 32 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:52,040 But we're communicating. They say we're telling you that we're bored frustrated, shamed and humiliated. 33 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:58,040 You bad children, you you shouldn't feel bored frustrated, shamed and humiliated. 34 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:04,040 Why they ask why shouldn't we feel bored frustrated, shamed and humiliated? 35 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,040 Because the stuff we're doing to you is research based. 36 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,040 It's the science of reading, you see. It's evidence based. There's research. 37 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:23,040 Wait a minute, they say. Research says that you should bore, frustrate, shame and humiliate children. 38 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,040 What kind of evil research is that? They ask. 39 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,040 No, no, no, you silly children. You don't understand. 40 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:38,040 That's why your children and we're adults. Children are silly and ignorant. 41 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Adults are wise and good. 42 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,040 Do wise and good people bore, frustrate, shame and humiliate children? 43 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Should we call child protection services? 44 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,040 No, no, no, they say you don't understand. 45 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,040 You're not being bored, frustrated, shamed and humiliated. 46 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:05,040 We're not. Then why are we feeling bored, frustrated, shamed and humiliated? 47 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,040 Because you're learning, damn it. That's what learning is. 48 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,040 Don't you know anything? I guess not, they say. 49 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:21,040 Now sit down, shut up and learn, damn it. You're going to learn real hard. 50 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:27,040 Then we're going to test you. And if the test shows you haven't learned, we're going to learn you even harder. 51 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,040 We'll learn you so hard that you'll never want to learn again. 52 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,040 But we don't want to be learned. No, they say. 53 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,040 Don't be silly. You silly ignorant children. 54 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:47,040 Of course you do. And we're going to learn you every day for the rest of your school lives. 55 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,040 And then crying could be heard. 56 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,040 Let me tell you a story. 57 00:04:53,040 --> 00:05:00,040 Once upon a time in a land far away, reading instruction was meeting based. 58 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,040 Life was good. 59 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,040 Children read and enjoy good books. 60 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,040 They talked about good books. 61 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,040 They got to choose the books that interested them. 62 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:21,040 And they got to write stories about things that they experienced and say things that they want to say with their writing. 63 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:27,040 Children were not treated as standardized products in this land far away. 64 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,040 They were not forced to move in lockstep on a conveyor belt. 65 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:43,040 As a predetermined series of reading sub skills were pounded, pounded, pounded into their heads at predetermined times, inscripted predetermined ways. 66 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,040 And teachers were treated with respect in this once upon a time place. 67 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:58,040 They were allowed to use their professional judgment in what they taught and how they taught it. 68 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:07,040 They were allowed to make the choices that would enable their students to best succeed. 69 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:18,040 And college graduate tuition was low enough so that teachers could afford to take legitimate professional development courses. 70 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:24,040 And not the for-profit boondoggles that are being marketed as science of reading. 71 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:35,040 And state politicians stuck to what they knew best, giving tax breaks to wealthy taxpayers and wasting taxpayer money. 72 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:44,040 And teachers enjoyed teaching and children enjoyed learning and children learned to read and they learned to enjoy reading. 73 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:53,040 Different goals were set for different children based on where they were and it was good. 74 00:06:54,040 --> 00:07:01,040 But one day, Ortis Hemingill, the evil wizard of Cambium said, 75 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:10,040 We must have control. We must have profits. Tell the people that there is a reading crisis. 76 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,040 But there isn't a reading crisis, said his assistant Stanley. 77 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,040 Ortis Hemingill, the evil wizard of Cambium, hit Stanley. 78 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,040 If I say there's a reading crisis, there is a reading crisis. 79 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,040 Oh, oh, of course. What was I thinking? Sorry, boss. 80 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:34,040 There's reading and there's a crisis. Therefore, there's a reading crisis. 81 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,040 We just have to convince people that there's a reading crisis. 82 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:46,040 So Ortis Hemingill, the evil wizard of Cambium, thought for a bit and said, 83 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:54,040 Mothers of Liberty. What? Mothers of Liberty. That's the answer. 84 00:07:54,040 --> 00:08:02,040 Said Ortis Hemingill, the evil wizard of Cambium, who could be against Mothers? Nobody. 85 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:10,040 And who could be against Liberty? Well, fascist dictators. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. 86 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,040 But besides that, evil wizards. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Besides that, 87 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,040 large for profit corporations. Well, right. Yes. Besides that, 88 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,040 political groups who want to stay in power. Yeah, right, right. 89 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:31,040 But besides that, who could be against Liberty? White nationalists who want to promote their ideology. 90 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:38,040 Yes, yes, yes. Besides that, religious fundamentalists who want everyone to adopt the religious belief system. 91 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,040 Yes, yes. But besides that, who could be against Liberty? 92 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,040 Political groups who gerrymander and suppress votes. Okay, I get it. 93 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:52,040 But let's say that lots of people like Liberty and everybody likes moms. 94 00:08:53,040 --> 00:09:04,040 We just need to convince them that there's a reading crisis. Get me my flying monkeys and a bunch of flying monkeys soon darken the sky. 95 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:11,040 Their two leaders flew into the room and Ortis Hemingill said, 96 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:18,040 Louisa, Emily, my precious monkeys, we need to convince the mothers of Liberty. 97 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,040 There's a reading crisis. Said Ortis Hemingill, the evil wizard of Cambium. 98 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,040 I can do radio documentaries. One monkey said, 99 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,040 I can write nonsense that looks like scholarly works at the other. 100 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Excellent. Said Ortis Hemingill. Fly my pretties and don't come back until there's a literacy crisis. 101 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:47,040 So here's the thing. Children naturally want to learn. 102 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,040 They naturally want to make sense of their environment. 103 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,040 They naturally want to create meeting with Pritt. 104 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:04,040 When we teach children in ways that don't align with these natural inclinations, we make learning harder. 105 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:11,040 We, meaning you science of reading people, create more frustration and failures. 106 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,040 Thank you very much. Emily Hanford and Louisa Mott's. 107 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:25,040 And when children communicate with their behavior, then you get PBIS involved, positive behavior intervention and supports. 108 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,040 It's research based, you say, and it is. 109 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:36,040 But so is using electric shocks to suppress behavior and using mouse pellets to reward behavior. 110 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:44,040 And you also use social and emotional learning, which really is teaching the correct behaviors. 111 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:53,040 You seek to suppress and correct the behaviors for which you are largely responsible for in the first place. 112 00:10:53,040 --> 00:11:00,040 You're addressing the effect instead of the cause because you, Emily Hanford, Louisa Mott's and science of reading ideologists are the cause. 113 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:08,040 Now, am I saying that bad reading instruction, the kind proposed by the science of reading ideologists, is the cause of all bad behavior? No. 114 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:15,040 Am I saying that PBIS should never be the cause of all bad behavior? No. 115 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:25,040 But what I am saying is this, when students are engaged in their learning and when they are enjoying what they're doing and when they're successful at what they're doing, 116 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:35,040 when learning is something they do instead of something that's done to them, there are far, far more than just a few things that are not. 117 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:44,040 And why do I bring up PBIS and social emotional learning in the first place? 118 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:54,040 Well, MTSS, multi-tier systems of supports, includes PBIS and social emotional learning. 119 00:11:54,040 --> 00:12:06,040 It's the latest shiny new thing. Now, RTI, which was a very effective way for addressing academic issues related to reading, writing and math, 120 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:14,040 they took that and they jammed a bunch of PBIS behaviorism and social emotional learning. 121 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:23,040 More behaviorism onto it, a perfectly good thing like RTI and they ruined it. 122 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:34,040 The claim was that behaviors got in the way of learning. So we need to use PBIS. We need to PBIS all those naughty kids. 123 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:45,040 But you see MTSS is backwards. The bad reading instruction, like the science of reading slop being forced on teachers, is the cause. 124 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:53,040 Naughty behaviors is the result. This has been the reading instruction. 125 00:12:53,040 --> 00:13:03,040 I'm your host, as always, Dr. Andy Johnson.