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I got the opener this week.

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Headline on this one.

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I'm just gonna start with that.

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I'm gonna go with it.

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Orcas are ramming boats off the Spanish coast puzzling experts

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and myself because I didn't even know that they had orcas.

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I guess that makes sense on the one side.

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They wouldn't be in the Mediterranean.

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Let's read more about it.

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Pot of orcas repeatedly rammed a yacht in the Strait of Dervolter this week,

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damaging it enough to require Spanish rescuers to come to the aid of its four crew members.

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Are they gonna get the orcas opinion on this?

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Maybe they deserved it.

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Does he want?

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We'll have to wait to see to the end where they say that we asked the orcas for their statement

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or they have not replied to a request for statement.

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It's coming.

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Okay.

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So it was the latest episode in a perplexing trend in the behavior of orcas populating the

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Atlantic coast off the Iberian Peninsula that has left researchers searching for a cause.

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Spain's maritime rescue service said that the orcas repeatedly ran into the musty,

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a 20 meter vessel sailing under a UK flag laid on Wednesday, rendering its rudder in operative

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and cracking its hull.

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Rescues needed to pump out seawater before towing her to safety.

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The alert reached the Spanish service via their British counterpart who relayed the

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distress call.

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The Spanish service said a helicopter and a rescue boat were deployed to help the damaged boat

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to dock in Barbate.

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This is the 24th.

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Wow.

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Such incident registered by the services here.

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The service didn't provide data from last year.

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But the Atlantic orca working group, a team of Spanish and Portuguese marine life researchers

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who study orcas near the Iberian Peninsula say such incidents were first reported three

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years ago.

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In 2020, the group registered 52 such events, some of which resulted in damaged rudders that

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increased to 197 in 2021 and 207 in 2022.

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What are we at for this year?

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24.

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24.

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That's a good memory.

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The orcas seem to be targeting boats in a wide arc covering the western coast of the

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peninsula from the waters near the Strait of Gibraltar to Spanish Northwest Galicia.

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So they are mustering together against the boats, it looks like.

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It's all the same offenders that spend most of the year near the Iberian Coast in pursuit

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of red tuna.

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The so-called Iberian orcas averaged from 5 to 6.5 meters in length compared to the orcas

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in Antarctica, which can reach 9 meters.

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They're all over the ocean.

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Oh yeah.

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Why did they just think they were in the PNW?

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Yeah, I always thought that too.

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But like, no, they're in Australia, they're in the Antarctic, they're all along South America.

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I didn't expect there to be Spanish orcas.

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Yeah.

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There's no attacks against swimmers, just yachts apparently from what I gather from this

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article and the interactions on boats seem to stop once the vessel becomes immobilized.

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Holy shit, that is scary.

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They have sentience about them.

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They're actually going to like break the boats.

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Yeah, I've liked the theory that they're just heavily anti-capitalist at this point

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as they're taking the Borsois class.

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This is a feel-good story.

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Good for them.

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I feel like good for them at this point.

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In recorded history, wild orcas actually have never killed a human.

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So I feel like they're not in the wrong here.

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As orcas have rarely actually been on the wrong side of history.

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Well, that's a great...

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Humans more often than not have been on the wrong side of history.

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They very well have.

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And there's not a whole lot of things that are on the right side of history.

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Here it is right here.

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Orcas have not responded for a comment on the article.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I'm glad they at least reached out.

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Yeah, well, they didn't.

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They've not responded.

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No, the reporter reached out.

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Oh, yeah.

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Not the orcas.

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They did.

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I mean, there's a really nice picture in this article.

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It is of a orca ramming the side of the boat.

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Just kidding.

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It's not.

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It's just going under the ocean.

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But that's interesting.

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I wonder what their motives are against the boats.

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What it's ever done to them.

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I actually find it quite hilarious that several of the subreddits that are

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anti-status quo and anti-imperialists.

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Okay.

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I thought you're going to say orca.

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No.

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Have taken these guys on as like their mascots because they appear to be just attacking the upper class.

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Because like you even saw in the article, it was a yacht that they attacked.

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It was a yacht.

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Not a dingy.

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Yeah.

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I like it.

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I got to say I'm on the orca side too at this point is giving the information I now have.

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So good for them.

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There's also a little thing that says that orcas communicate with each other.

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But not reporters, clearly.

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No, only each other.

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They do not go outside their species.

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So they have a culture.

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Obviously they're getting together against these boats for some reason.

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Yeah.

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And I should just make a clarifying statement on what I said earlier about orcas never having killed anybody.

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It is just wild orcas as captive orcas have killed people before.

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I mean with within reason, I can't blame them.

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And these boats have obviously done something to them.

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So I mean they're in the rain on that too in my mind.

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Yeah, boats too long have had priority, I guess, over the sea.

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The orcas being the more pushy of the whale category are finally fighting back.

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Obviously.

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They are the apex predator.

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They in fact even feed on great white sharks.

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So really?

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Oh yeah.

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I know that.

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I don't think you might have.

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I don't know.

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It's hard to say.

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But yeah, feel good story to start this episode off.

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And with that, let's get into this episode.

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Okay.

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.

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Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe here to reveal some uncomfortable truth to you

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the listener like Christians.

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You either worship Jesus Christ or you're Christians.

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You can't have it both ways.

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Also, we mostly discuss fringe topics.

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We are your podcast hosts Taylor and Chelsea.

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And today we take a look at the fringy side of a fairly mundane and normal topic.

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And in a different way than our usual mundane fringiness.

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And that is of course the Smithsonian Museum.

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Now you might think why would somebody talk about this on a fringe topic podcast?

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And which I would say to you then you clearly have not been in the conspiracy community that often.

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Because boy does it show up for some reason a lot.

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And if you haven't then welcome.

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And if you haven't been welcome, we will guide you through it.

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Yes.

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So today's episode is on the Smithsonian Museum.

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It is the US government's basically institutional museum side.

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We're going to get into where it comes from, why it's called the Smithsonian,

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what it encompasses and more importantly from there the controversies that have plagued it

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from the fringy side.

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I'm excited.

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And without further wait, let's just get right into this.

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So why is it called the Smithsonian Museum?

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Well, strangely enough, it's going to start with a guy named Jacques-Louis Macy,

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a man who has never and will never set foot in the United States.

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Okay.

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Did he commit crimes?

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He committed as far as I can tell no crimes other than the accumulation of wealth that was not his own.

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Okay.

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Is he dead?

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Very much so, yes.

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Okay, that's what he got you.

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He is born in Paris in 1765.

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The illegitimate child of Elizabeth Hungerford,

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Keet Macy and Hugh Percy, whose original name was Hugh Smithson.

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Did you just say three people?

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No, it's one of those fancy people names, so there's a lot of names involved.

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So Elizabeth Hungerford, Keet Macy is one person.

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Okay.

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And Hugh Percy, who is Hugh Smithson, is another person.

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Okay, I'm glad we clarified that.

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And Hugh Smithson, he was the first Duke of Northumberland.

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Hugh Percy, this child at birth is given the name Jacques-Louis Macy.

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His birth date was not recorded, so we don't know the exact date or location of his birth,

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but it is possible that it was in Pentemont Abbey.

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Shortly after his birth, he became a naturalized British citizen because you know you've got

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some fancy people in your family, and he was given the anglicized name James Louis Macy.

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He adopted his father's original surname later on in 1800 of Smithson, following his mother's death.

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He attended university at Pembroke College, Oxford in 1782, eventually graduating with a

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Masters of Arts in 1786.

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As a student, he participated in a geological expedition to Scotland and studied chemistry

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and mineralogy.

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This is a guy who is very well off and never really has to settle on a specialty.

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He's well off, yet he was an illegitimate child.

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They weren't married.

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Well, that was the fancy thing to do at the time.

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Okay.

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Yeah, because you know, again, this is even like pre-liar's clubs, so you had Mr. Sifts.

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Yes, that's right.

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I forgot about that history.

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TV really changed modern society.

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Smithson was a nomad by lifestyle, traveling throughout Europe, and as a student in 1789,

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1884, he participated in a geological expedition with Bartholomew Fahad de Saint-Fond,

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one person there again, William Thornton, and Paolo Andriani to Scotland and especially the

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Herbides.

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He was in Paris during the French Revolution.

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Not a great place to be a rich person, but he does survive.

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And in August 1807, Smithson became a prisoner of war while in Tonning during the Napoleonic

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Wars.

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He arranged a transfer to Hamburg, where he was again imprisoned and now by the French.

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The following year, Smithson wrote to Sir Joseph Banks and asked him to use his influence to

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gain release, and Banks succeeded and Smithson got to return to England.

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So you know, all over the map this guy.

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In 1766, and this is outside of the linear story, his mother inherited from the Hungerford

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family of Stoodley, where her brother had lived up until his death, and his controversial legal

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stepfather, John Marsh Dickinson, who I believe is just known as Dickinson.

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Of course.

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John Marsh Dickinson of Dunstable died in 1771.

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Smithson's wealth stemmed from the splitting of his mother's estate with his half-brother,

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Colonel Henry Louis Dickinson.

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His sciencing, like I said, is very eclectic.

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He was very well off, so he didn't really need to specialize and do it for the money.

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He studied subjects ranging from coffee making to the use of kalamine.

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I eventually renamed Smithsonite in making brass.

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He also studied the chemistry of human tears.

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Snake Vanim occurred and would publish 27 papers over the course of his life.

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And this is just all for pleasure.

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Yeah.

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He was nominated to the Royal Society of London by Henry Cavendish and was made a fellow on April

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26, 1787.

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What the hell's the full level?

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I know.

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It's a very fancy title.

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What is it?

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I always hear that term, and I don't know what it actually means.

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It just means like you're a fancy science person or a fancy expert in your field.

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Oh, it says man or boy, which is what I would know it as, but you used it in a different context.

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Yes.

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So I'm not sure what it is.

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Okay, I accept that.

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Within the context of higher educational institutions, a fellow can be a member of a highly ranked

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group of teachers at a particular college or university or a member of the governing body

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in some universities.

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It can also be a specially selected postgraduate student who has been appointed to a post called

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a fellowship, granting a stipend, research facilities and other privileges for a fixed period.

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I guess it does change depending on like who you're talking to it about.

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Yeah, I wasn't rolling with the fellowship crowd.

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That's why I didn't know what it was.

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Yeah, we were never on fellowship tracks.

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We were never.

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Okay, let's continue.

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Over the course of his career, Smiths and Socialized and worked with many scientists.

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Some of them you may know their names.

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I only theorize I know who Henry Cavendish is based on bananas, the Cavendish banana.

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I have only heard of the name, not even the banana.

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Okay, but he also worked and socialized with Joseph Priestley, Sir Joseph Banks, Antoine

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Lavoisier and Richard Kerouan, probably very great names.

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Explored and examined Kirkdale Cave.

250
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His findings published in 1824 successfully challenged previous beliefs that the fossils

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00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,480
within the formation at at Cave were from the Great Flood.

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So he was great at dispelling misconceptions as well.

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Okay.

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He's also credited with first using the word silicates, which is a fancy sciency rock work.

255
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,320
I'll believe you on that one.

256
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:05,520
So he does all this fancy science work and he was so busy with it.

257
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He never got married.

258
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,560
He never had any kids and he had this wealth, a huge wealth.

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At the time I was trying to figure it out.

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It was about a hundred thousand gold sovereigns, which I was looking up what that means in today's

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words.

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It's about 45 million dollars.

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Okay, that's a lot.

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00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:28,560
And there's so many words being used in this episode that are just so above what I surround myself with.

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00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:35,040
So Smithson dies in 1829, June 27 in Genoa, Italy, in his well written in 1826.

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Smithson left his fortune to the son of his brother, that is his new nephew, Henry James Dickinson.

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Dickinson had to change his surname to Hungerford as a condition of receiving this inheritance.

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And also it was stated in the well that Henry James Hungerford or Hungerford's children would

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receive his inheritance.

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And if the nephew did not live and had no children to receive the fortune,

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it would be donated to the United States to establish an educational institution to be

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called the Smithsonian Institute.

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Is that foreshadowing?

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A little bit.

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It's a little soft for us, but it is there.

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What a bizarre will.

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Like what bizarre stipulations.

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00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,440
Well, when you're looking at a state planning, a lot of people want to keep money in their family,

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no matter where it will go.

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So he would put it to a nephew, the only nephew.

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00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,280
And then the exception there, if we can't keep it in the family,

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I want my name to live on forever.

283
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,640
So that's basically what he's doing.

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00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,400
Okay, makes sense when you put it that way.

285
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:37,360
And then Henry Hungerford dies on June 5th, 1835, never got married and had no children.

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So the U.S. ends up getting this cash.

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00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,520
And this is basically what it says in the will.

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I then bequeath the whole of my property to the United States of America to found at Washington

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under the name of the Smithsonian Institute in the establishment for the increase in diffusion

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of knowledge among men.

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00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:57,840
So this money ends up going to the U.S., a place where he had never set foot.

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00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,200
So it's a little weird about that.

293
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,400
I was just going to say why the U.S.

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00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:08,880
My theory is because everything so established in Europe that that money is not going to get

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00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,320
your name attached to anything.

296
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:10,960
Okay.

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00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,360
You're not going to get the Oxford University renamed or Cambridge or anything like that

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00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,040
renamed with this kind of cash.

299
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:17,760
Fair enough.

300
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:18,480
Okay.

301
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,800
And this is a place that is like burgeoning, there's a lot of unexplored areas.

302
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:28,320
So he probably thought that an institution in that area would be necessary at some point.

303
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,600
And it's likely that he could get his name attached to it.

304
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:32,080
Okay.

305
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,760
But this is just speculation on my part.

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00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,840
It was really hard to find anything that really explained why he specifically did it.

307
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:38,720
That makes sense.

308
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,800
So let's just run with that.

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00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,840
And so established was the Smithsonian Institute.

310
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,680
However, it wasn't just his money.

311
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,760
It was the government of the U.S. that always wanted to set up a science institution from

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00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:50,560
its inception.

313
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,840
And I guess just getting this little bit of money nudged them towards doing it.

314
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,640
And it wasn't actually always known as Smithsonian Institute.

315
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,800
Today, it is known as Smithsonian Institution or simply the Smithsonian.

316
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,320
It is a group of museums, education and research centers and the largest such complex in the world

317
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,480
created by the U.S. government for the increase and diffusion of knowledge.

318
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:16,720
And it was founded on August 10th, 1846, 10 years after they officially got that money in the will.

319
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,840
It operates as a trust instrumentality and is not formally a part of any of the three branches

320
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,640
of the federal government.

321
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:23,840
It just gets funding from it.

322
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,200
It was originally organized as the United States National Museum,

323
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:33,280
but the name ceased to exist administratively in 1967 when Smithsonian is the only name it goes by.

324
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:41,200
It is commonly called the nation's attic because it houses some 154 to 155 million different

325
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,680
museum items, all catalog and some stored, some out for viewing pleasure.

326
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:52,880
The institution includes 19 museums, 21 libraries, nine research centers, the nation's zoo,

327
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:58,320
and other architectural landmarks mostly located in and around the District of Columbia.

328
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,160
Okay, that answers my next question.

329
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:05,680
Additional facilities are located in Maryland, New York, and Virginia and more than 200 institutions

330
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,760
and museums in 45 states.

331
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,120
Puerto Rico and Panama are Smithsonian affiliates.

332
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,440
Institution publications includes the Smithsonian and the Aaron Space Magazine.

333
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,840
Almost all of the institution's 30 million annual visitors are admitted into these museums

334
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,480
and other things free of charge, except for one of these facilities called the Cooper Hewitt

335
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,200
Smithsonian Design Museum, which charges an admission fee.

336
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:35,920
Its annual budget is around $1.25 billion, with two-thirds coming from annual federal

337
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:36,960
appropriations.

338
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,040
Other funding comes from the institution's endowment, private and corporate contributions,

339
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,040
membership dues, and earned retail, concession, and licensing revenue.

340
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,320
As of 2021, the institution's endowment had a total value of about $5.4 billion.

341
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400
Also, just a few things that weren't quite in there, but also good to know,

342
00:16:54,400 --> 00:17:03,680
they have 2.2 million library volumes, 148,200 cubic feet of archives, 2,981 scholarly publications.

343
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,360
So a lot of stuff happens, it includes a lot of museums, a lot of research.

344
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,080
At this point, you might be wondering, what's the conspiracy?

345
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,000
Where is the fringiness coming from?

346
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,360
Maybe it's the relationship to Mr. Smith's in here and why he set it up.

347
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:16,560
Well, surprisingly, no.

348
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,360
Then there are actually quite a few different conspiracies about the Smithsonian.

349
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:24,560
I'm going to touch on a few that we're not actually going to talk about at all.

350
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,880
And this isn't the first time it's actually come up in an episode.

351
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,040
Do you remember the Hope Diamond that we talked about in the Cursed Objects?

352
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:31,680
Yes.

353
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,200
It is in the Smithsonian.

354
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:33,600
Right.

355
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,480
I think he said that.

356
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:35,360
That is it.

357
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,800
And I'm pretty sure the delivery guy died on the way delivering it, if I'm thinking of the right one.

358
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,160
I think so too, but it's also if I'm thinking of the right one.

359
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,480
Also, things of note that they've been accused of, or at least people have speculated on,

360
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,360
the Smithsonian Institute went in search of Noah's Ark at Mount Ararat, which they deny.

361
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,920
Antiques Department turns down so-called prehistoric artifacts that are out of place,

362
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,240
which they deny and say that most of the people that are saying that they're sending them there

363
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,240
are just straight up lying and not sending them.

364
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,040
And there is an archive center underneath the National Mall in Washington, DC,

365
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,360
which also they say isn't true and they have lots of warehouse space anyways that we don't need to

366
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:13,840
think about.

367
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,840
But why would they would have to have a secret one underneath the middle of Washington, DC?

368
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,760
For the secrets, of course.

369
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:20,640
Yeah, of course.

370
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,480
But the two that we are going to talk about are a lot of fun.

371
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,680
Chelsea, I think you've at least heard of both of them and we're going to dig into these stories

372
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,880
of where they kind of come from.

373
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:29,760
We'll see.

374
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:38,160
So this is the title of an article that I found on GaiaTV written by the ever famous Gaia staff.

375
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,040
That's all it says is the author, so you know it's up.

376
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:41,440
What?

377
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,480
Yeah, somebody would even put their name to this, which is hilarious.

378
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,160
That could be David Wilcox.

379
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,680
Yeah.

380
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,040
If it could be Corey Good, it probably in fact was Corey Good at gunpoint.

381
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,560
Do you refuse to get his name on it?

382
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:53,440
Yeah, of course.

383
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,000
Well, whoever wrote it was definitely a gunpoint.

384
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,280
The title of this article is This Conspiracy Claims The Smithsonian Destroys Giant Skeletons

385
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,480
by Gaia staff written on November 11, 2019.

386
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,000
That just makes it credible.

387
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,480
Yeah.

388
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,400
And this is the one we're going to talk about first.

389
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:17,040
The Smithsonian Institute is ever present in the covering up and disposal of giant skeletons found

390
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,320
across North America.

391
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,280
Have heard of this.

392
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,960
Now, originally I started with the Snopes article because it's always fun to kind of

393
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,560
start with the debunk that they do.

394
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,680
And I find it really lacking, but we're going to talk about it anyways.

395
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,600
This is the article straight from Snopes.

396
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,120
Kim LeCapria wrote this on December 17, 2014.

397
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,080
Did the Smithsonian destroy thousands of giant human skeletons?

398
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:36,560
The claim.

399
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,280
The Supreme Court ordered the Smithsonian Institute to disclose that it destroyed several

400
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,920
giant skeletons in the early 1900s to preserve the mainstream narrative of evolution.

401
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:46,960
And I do apologize.

402
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,560
It's called the Smithsonian Institution.

403
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,440
I call it the Smithsonian Institute because I don't like saying institution.

404
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,920
It's just too long, but the full name is institution.

405
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,480
I like that you're not just calling it the Smithsonian.

406
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,840
I could just call it the Smithsonian.

407
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:58,480
Easy enough.

408
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,280
On December 3, 2014, World News Daily report published an article titled Smithsonian

409
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,600
Admitted Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900s.

410
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,160
In that article, the site reported the Smithsonian colluded with unspecified parties to suppress

411
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,000
information providing the existence of the giant and the Supreme Court ruled in 2014

412
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,600
that documentation of the discovery be classified in 2015.

413
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,080
A number of factors in this story claim conflict with the standard template for junk news,

414
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,040
but the article also follows a formula in several ways.

415
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,920
On the latter score, searches for the American institution of alternative archaeology,

416
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,400
which is included in the story, point back either to the article itself or to other pages

417
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,240
referencing this article, a strong indicator that the organization does not exist.

418
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,400
Furthermore, the claim regarding Smithsonian guarding classified documents is unusual,

419
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,560
as the earliest technical classification of documents in the United States goes back only

420
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,760
as far as World War One.

421
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,840
Whereas the discovery of giant skeletons is dated vaguely as occurring in the early 1900s

422
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,160
prior to the First World War and the need to classify documents as we would today had not

423
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,440
yet come to issue.

424
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,080
And such a measure would be even less likely to apply to an archaeological discovery.

425
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,960
An image on World News Daily report claims was taken in Ohio in 2011,

426
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,920
has existed on the internet since 2008 and prior references identify the location as a picture

427
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,360
as Turkey, not Ohio.

428
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,400
And the date initially claimed of the image back then was that it was taken in the 1990s.

429
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,800
Another image of giant skulls included with the article dated to a 2008 claim

430
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,280
made on the website of the Coast to Coast radio program.

431
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,120
Yet another image frequently attached to other versions of the claim depict

432
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,920
Edward Bopre, French-Canadian man afflicted with gigantism who died in 1904.

433
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:42,480
Cytos celebrity at the time, Bopre's existence was hardly a secret and certainly not classified

434
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:43,520
by the Smithsonian.

435
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,240
Finally, no such Supreme Court decision exists and if it did, it would have been a matter

436
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,320
of public record and widely reported mainstream publications due to its notability.

437
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,400
I think that's enough of that article to kind of like show you what they're focusing on,

438
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,760
but I feel it's a real cop out because yes, they're pointing to this one particular article,

439
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,680
but the claims that the Smithsonian is covering up giant skeletons being found goes back way

440
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,280
further than 2014.

441
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,400
It goes far back as the early 1800s.

442
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,160
You can find newspaper articles all over the internet of giant skeletons being found in

443
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:24,480
the New World and their skeletons being shipped to the Smithsonian Institute for further research.

444
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,840
So they could just in this article, they completely disregard the fact that these articles exist

445
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,600
and just say that this one article is clearly fake and that's where it all comes from,

446
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,040
which I find a little bit of a cop out.

447
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:40,240
So I decided to do a little bit more research of my own and give you guys an idea of why exactly

448
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,280
people in the 1800s or why people were sending giant skeletons to the Smithsonian institution

449
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,680
in the early 1800s to the early 1900s or if they actually were.

450
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,640
Chelsea, we're going to learn a bit about North American history,

451
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,240
which I did not know, but I find incredibly interesting.

452
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,200
During the 19th century, which would be the 1800s, there was a widespread belief in North America

453
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,440
that there is a prehistoric lost race.

454
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,640
And I should just warn you, this is going to be one of those histories of mythological things

455
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,800
that ends up ending in racism, ethnocentrism, and a genocide.

456
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,200
From the time period, I would just assume that.

457
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:20,800
But it's just funny how many of our episodes that we end up doing end up coming back to this theme.

458
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,840
It is a disturbing amount yet.

459
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,320
During the 19th century, there was a widespread belief in North America of a prehistoric lost race.

460
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,120
European settlers embraced this myth of pre-Columbian settlement from the old world,

461
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:38,320
which reframed colonization as the continuation of a primordial pass in which the roles of

462
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,360
native people were diminished or dismissed through a process that historian Douglas Hunter

463
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,280
described as white tribism.

464
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,840
The settlers interpreted signs of intellectual and cultural capabilities and North American ruins

465
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,840
as signs that white people put them there and were the creators.

466
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,600
White Americans developed myths around what are known as the Great Mound Builder Races,

467
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,080
which describe a rationale for the colonization of American was Midwest.

468
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,080
Various versions of the myth held that the massive earthworks along the Mississippi Valley,

469
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,800
like Grave Creek Mound and the Great Serpent Mound, were not built by ancestors of North Americans,

470
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,240
as is now widely believed.

471
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,200
According to the myths, the Indians had exterminated the prehistoric white race of mound builders.

472
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,720
This cast genocidal violence towards the Native Americans as defensive or retributive.

473
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,240
Josiah Priess, American antiquities released in 1833, crystallized the idea of a lost race,

474
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,040
mentioned in the book of Genesis, that created the monuments of North America before being

475
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,640
exterminated by savages.

476
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,280
Between 1812 and the American Civil War, nearly all Americans writing about the continent's

477
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,640
history used this myth of the white mound building races.

478
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,760
And it was so prominent that there is a famous quote from a statement made by Abraham Lincoln,

479
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,440
this was made in 1848.

480
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,720
It's called Niagara Falls.

481
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,440
It calls up the indefinite past when Columbus first sought this continent.

482
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,280
When Christ suffered on the cross, when Moses led Israel through the Red Sea,

483
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,320
nay, even when Adam first came from the hand of his maker.

484
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,040
Then as now, Niagara was roaring here.

485
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,440
The eyes of that species of extinct giants, whose bones filled the mounds of America,

486
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,920
have gazed on Niagara as ours do now.

487
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,680
Contemporary with the whole race of men and older than the first man,

488
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680
Niagara is strong and fresh today as 10,000 years ago.

489
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,200
Relection to Niagara.

490
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,400
Yeah, I did not know.

491
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,960
Like it was so prominent that the president of the time would make a statement just about

492
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,120
how casually, yeah, the giants were around.

493
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,240
Don't worry about it.

494
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,000
They too saw Niagara Falls.

495
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,760
Readers of the time taught a biblical basis for the primordial race,

496
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,080
including connections to the lost tribes of the Nephilim, which you hear a lot in

497
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,280
conspiracy world.

498
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,400
Giants from the book of Genesis and Joseph Smith incorporated this pre-Columbian white

499
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,400
race into the Mormon teachings.

500
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,200
Hundreds of newspaper articles credulously describe the purported discovery of the giant

501
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,520
skeletons, sometimes with anatomical irregularities attributed to the Nephilim.

502
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,000
For example, a massive skeleton unearthed in Tennessee toured the state as a specimen for

503
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:08,800
this lost race.

504
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,120
The reconstructed skeleton was mounted to a timber frame in a standing position with

505
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,600
missing bones recreated from wooden raw hide.

506
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,360
Preachers, doctors, and journalists confirmed it to belong to the genus Homo,

507
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:23,680
despite a standing height estimated up to 20 feet tall, as it would be described.

508
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,840
When the giant was taken to New Orleans, medical doctor William Carpenter found it to be a

509
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,600
young Macedon's remains, and Carpenter reported that there was not fraud,

510
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,440
and the man exhibiting the bones boxed them up after discovering that they were not human,

511
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,520
but rather a widespread desire to believe.

512
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,760
The Macedon ceased to be exhibited as a person, but soon after purported giants were unearthed,

513
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,280
exhibiting reported or sold for profit all over the country.

514
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,160
Throughout the 19th century, some scholars expressed doubt about the excavation of purported

515
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,200
giants but had little impact on public perception.

516
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,920
Many readers embrace the skeletons as evidence of biblical history against unpopular

517
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,080
experts whose discoveries undermine a literal interpretation of the Bible.

518
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,880
With a rise in white literacy rates and the emergence of the cheaper penny-pressed newspapers,

519
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,880
there was a strong market for these tales that gave them greater impact than all

520
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,520
university scholarship that will be coming out at the time.

521
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,080
Stories frequently ran presenting as straight fact, hoaxes, scams, and misinterpretations

522
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,440
of extinct megafauna.

523
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,920
Some newspapers outright just fabricated stories.

524
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,880
Ethnologist Cyrus Thomas spent years compiling his report on the mound explorations for the

525
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,560
Smithsonian Institute, which is where the Smithsonian starts to come in here,

526
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:37,280
and the 1894 in-depth study on North America's earthworks provided over 700 pages of conclusive

527
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,520
evidence that they were built by the native people as they were at the day.

528
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,600
Not a race of white giants.

529
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,080
Thomas's report shifted academic attitudes, but news reports of giant skeletons continue

530
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,320
to come out for decades afterwards.

531
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,080
It was common for the stories to claim that the bones were then sent to the Smithsonian

532
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Institute and the Smithsonian's Bureau of Ethnology did encourage those excavating mounds

533
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,360
to send the Native American bones to their mound exploration division,

534
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,280
which is where this story kind of meets a little bit of fact in fiction.

535
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,560
Prior to the 1990 Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, the Smithsonian

536
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,960
collected over 18,000 of these skeletons.

537
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,600
However, the sensationalist newspaper articles were often invoking the Smithsonian name

538
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,800
only in order to lend their own article credibility.

539
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,280
Nothing would actually be sent for these articles.

540
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:31,280
In 1934, Alice Herdlika, curator of anthropology at the Smithsonian Institution,

541
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,360
rejected the existence of a race of giants between 7 and 8 feet tall.

542
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,560
Herdlika blamed the will to believe for the many reports of giant's discoveries.

543
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,080
Herdlika blamed amateur anthropologists for being fooled by bones,

544
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,320
and he stated that people were most often fooled by the length of the femur bone,

545
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,600
because they are often not familiar with how human anatomy works,

546
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,520
so when they see a femur, it's often not placed right into the skeleton,

547
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,680
so people think that they're longer than they are.

548
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,360
He also stated in 1934 that reports of giant's skeletons occurred about two or three times every

549
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:03,920
month.

550
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,360
So it was common, like, way up in history in North America.

551
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,320
In 2020, the Columbus Dispatch reported that archaeologist Donald Ball collected articles

552
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,520
about giant's skeletons, which were purportedly found in burial mounds dating back as far as 1845,

553
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,360
and he determined that when the claims about giant's skeletons were scrutinized,

554
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,800
they didn't reveal giant's skeletons.

555
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,920
One story in Indianapolis Journal reported in August 29th, 1883, that a 9 foot skeleton had been

556
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,240
found.

557
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,600
Dr. M.M. Adams investigated and concluded that the bones were not of a giant,

558
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,600
and the individual was not above the height of 5 feet 8 inches.

559
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,040
He determined that it was a giant fraud upon the people,

560
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,000
and I believe the pun was in fact intended at that time.

561
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,640
And that, I think, gives a better idea of why the Smithsonian Institute is related to the cover-up

562
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,280
of giants throughout the history of North America.

563
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,560
Okay, they're real, right?

564
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,560
Giants, oh yeah, and the Smithsonian is covering them up very benignly,

565
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,560
because, you know, the Native Americans actually just get everything they treated in giants.

566
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,040
That was a really roundabout way to see this.

567
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,920
Yes.

568
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,360
I'm also a little disturbed that they're so, like,

569
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,840
casually digging up burial mounds and sending the bones away.

570
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Well, you gotta remember that they didn't really consider Native Americans people at the time,

571
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:17,440
like, on par.

572
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,920
Okay, I don't want to remember that, but you make it.

573
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,800
And part of it too, then saying that they can no longer find these giants that were said to them,

574
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,240
or these remains?

575
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,960
Part of that is, in 1990, they had to give back all these remains to the culture that they took them from,

576
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,200
because they said, wow, this was a really dick move to destroy all of their burial mounds

577
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,480
and take all of their bones.

578
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,680
Maybe they should have them.

579
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,880
So part of that too is, oh, they don't have them anymore, or they're hidden.

580
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,240
They had to give them back.

581
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,880
Well, yeah, and at that point, like, you've already entered the poltergeist realm,

582
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:54,400
that you're getting a pretty decently heavy haunting next to those burial grounds that were robbed of there.

583
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,400
Oh, and also, that was one of the controversies about the Smithsonian is that it's haunted.

584
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,040
It should be noted that they returned all of the Native burial artifacts and bones

585
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,960
back to the people in the 1990s, which was ended the haunted.

586
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,280
They just did.

587
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:07,840
It simply remains a lie.

588
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:08,960
Simple is that.

589
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,120
Yeah, no reason to haunt anymore, so it stops.

590
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,280
That shed some light on quite a few things.

591
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:21,520
I should also make a point at this time that a lot of the conspiracy side and like Gaia TV,

592
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,080
they'd like to bring up a man by the name of John Powell.

593
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,920
He was a contributor to the Smithsonian Institute and the Powell Doctrine,

594
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,520
but I find it completely unnecessary to talk about in this portion if you want to learn more, go ahead.

595
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,920
But I feel like this sums it up perfectly.

596
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,920
Right, that's a good point to make.

597
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,880
I just wanted to make sure that I acknowledged that people bring up the name John Powell,

598
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,920
and I thought it was stupid.

599
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,920
So I'm not going to do it.

600
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,920
Okay, you won't find him here, folks.

601
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,920
But that moves us on to the next controversy.

602
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,720
Chelsea, do you have any questions about this giant?

603
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,720
I don't think so.

604
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,720
I mean, I'm always disappointed by a logical explanation.

605
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,920
I'll admit it.

606
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:00,720
And that's what that was.

607
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Thank you for grounding us.

608
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,720
Grounding us and making sure that we know that this is another fringy mythology or belief

609
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,120
that is grounded in genocide.

610
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,920
Fully disappointment, this podcast is.

611
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,120
Yup, the fringe.

612
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,120
It's only two steps away from it.

613
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Confirmed genocide.

614
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,120
Yeah, exactly.

615
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,120
No, no questions.

616
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Okay, this brings us to the next controversy that you will hear the Smithsonian Institute brought up with.

617
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,120
And Chelsea, this one I think you will like.

618
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:37,120
It is the discovery of Egyptian artifacts in the Grand Canyon.

619
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,120
Right, I will like this one.

620
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:45,120
And to this, we will go right back to the first article that was ever written on this topic.

621
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,120
It was in the Arizona Gazette.

622
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,120
It's the Monday evening edition, April 5th, 1909.

623
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:55,120
The title of this article is exploration Grand Canyon, mysteries of immense rich cavern being brought to light.

624
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,120
And this is a longer article, so just sit tight with it, okay?

625
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,120
Okay.

626
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:05,120
The latest news of the progress of the exploration of what is now regarded by scientists is not only the oldest archaeological discovery in the United States,

627
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:13,120
but the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkade,

628
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:21,120
the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming down the Colorado in a wooden boat to Yuma several months ago.

629
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:29,120
According to the story yesterday to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkade, the archaeologist of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the exploration,

630
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:37,120
the discovery, which almost conclusively proved that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rocks by human hands, was of oriental origin,

631
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,120
or possibly from Egypt tracing back to Ramses.

632
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:47,120
If their theories are borne out of the translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphs, the mystery of the prehistoric people of North America,

633
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,120
their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved.

634
00:33:51,120 --> 00:34:00,120
Egypt and the Nile in Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back at ages, which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionists.

635
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Under the direction of Professor S.A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough exploration which will be continued until the last link in the chain has been forged.

636
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage had been delved into to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways like the spokes of a wheel.

637
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:34,120
Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored from 854 feet and another 634 feet.

638
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:42,120
The recent findings include articles which have been known as native to this country and doubtlessly they had their origin in the Orient.

639
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:50,120
War weapons, copper instruments, sharp edged and hard as steel indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people.

640
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:59,120
So interested have these scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies and the force will be increased to 30 or 40 persons.

641
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:07,120
Forgoing further into the cavern, better facilities for lighting have to be established, for the darkness is dense and impenetrable for the average flashlight.

642
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:13,120
In order to avoid being lost, wires have been strung from the entrance to all passageways leading directly to large chambers.

643
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:28,120
How far this cavern extends, no one can guess, but it is now the belief of many that what has already been explored is merely the barracks, to use an American term, for the soldiers, and that far into the underworld will be found the main communal dwellings of the families and possibly other shrines.

644
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:35,120
The perfect ventilation of the cavern, the steady draft that blows through indicates that it has another outlet to the surface.

645
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:42,120
Mr. Kinkade was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life. That's quite the claim to fame, hey?

646
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,120
Just gonna say what?

647
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:52,120
Thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute, even briefly recounting, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.

648
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,120
Let's look at a quote from him.

649
00:35:53,120 --> 00:36:00,120
First, I would impress that the cavern is almost inaccessible. The entrance is almost 1486 feet down as sheer canyon wall.

650
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,120
It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass.

651
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:11,120
The scientists wish to work unmolested without fear of the archaeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters.

652
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:16,120
A trick there would be fruitless and the visitor would be sent on his way.

653
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,120
I do just like that they say, hey, you're trespassing on your way. It's all they're gonna do.

654
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:28,120
The story of how I found the cavern has already been recounted, but in a paragraph, I was journeying down the Colorado River in a boat alone, looking for mineral.

655
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:38,120
Some 42 miles up the river from El Tovar Crystal Canyon, I saw on the east wall stains in the sedimentary formation about 2000 feet above the riverbed.

656
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,120
There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty.

657
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,120
Above a shelf, which hid it from the river, was the mouth of the cave.

658
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:51,120
There are steps heading into the entrance, some 30 yards, from what was at the time the cavern was inhabited at the level of the river.

659
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,120
When I saw the chisel marks on the walls inside the entrance, I became interested and secured my gun and went in.

660
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:03,120
During the trip, I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the main crypt, in which I discovered the mummies.

661
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,120
One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight.

662
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:12,120
I gathered a number of relics which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma from once I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery.

663
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,120
Following this, the exploration was undertaken.

664
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,120
The main passage is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to 9 feet towards the farther end.

665
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:29,120
About 57 feet from the entrance, the first passage branch off to the right and left, along which on both sides are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today.

666
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,120
Though some are 30 to 40 square feet.

667
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:37,120
These are entered by oval shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages.

668
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:43,120
I'm going to skip ahead just because it's very mundane archaeological stuff they're talking about to the shrine that they're going to talk about.

669
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:53,120
Over 100 feet from the entrance is a cross hall several hundred feet long in which was found the idol or image of the people's god sitting cross-legged with the lotus flower or lily at each hand.

670
00:37:53,120 --> 00:38:01,120
The cast of the face is oriental and the carvings show a skillful hand and the entire is remarkably well preserved as is everything in the cavern.

671
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,120
The idol most resembles Buddha.

672
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:12,120
Though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents, taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that the worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.

673
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:19,120
Surrounding the cycle are smaller images, some beautiful in form, others crooked necked and distorted shapes, symbolical probably of good and evil.

674
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,120
There are two large cacti with protruding arms, one on each side of the days on which the gods squads.

675
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,120
All of this is carved out of the hard rock resembling marble.

676
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:33,120
In the opposite corner of the cross hall were found tools of all description made of copper.

677
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:40,120
The people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal which has been sought by chemists for centuries without result.

678
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:45,120
On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other materials probably used in the process.

679
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:56,120
There is also slag and some similar to matte showing that these ancient people smelted ores but so far no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered nor the origin of the ore.

680
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Among other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold made very artistic in design.

681
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,120
Pottery work included in namel, ware and glazed vessels.

682
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:13,120
Another passageway leads to the granaries such as are found in the Oriental temples and they contain seeds of various kinds.

683
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:19,120
One of the very large storehouses has not been entered as it is 12 feet high and can be reached only from above.

684
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,120
Two copper hooks extend to the edge which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached.

685
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:30,120
These granaries are rounded and the materials on which they are constructed I think is very hard cement.

686
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,120
A grey metal is also found in this cavern which puzzles the scientists.

687
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,120
For its identity has not been established it resembles platinum.

688
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:44,120
Stroom promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call cat eyes or tiger eyes a yellow stone of no great value.

689
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Each one is engraved with the head of a Malay type.

690
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:54,120
On all the urns, on the walls, over the doorways and tablets of stone which were found by the images are mysterious hieroglyphics.

691
00:39:54,120 --> 00:40:01,120
The key to which the Smithsonian Institution hopes yet to discover these writings resemble those found on the rocks about this valley.

692
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,120
Engravings on the tablets probably have something to do with the religion of the people.

693
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,120
Similar hieroglyphs have been found in the peninsula of Yucatan but these are not found in the Orient.

694
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,120
Some believe that these cave dwellers built the old canals in the Salt River Valley.

695
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,120
Among the pictorial writings only two animals are found one is the prehistoric type.

696
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,120
The tomb or crypt in which the mummies are found is one of the largest of the chambers.

697
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,120
The walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees.

698
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,120
These are tiers of mummies.

699
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,120
Each one occupying a separate hewn shelf.

700
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:37,120
At the head of each is a small bench on which is found copper cups, pieces of broken swords.

701
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,120
Some of the mummies are covered with clay and are all wrapped in a bark fabric.

702
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,120
The urns of cups on the lower tiers are crude.

703
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:49,120
While as the higher shelves are reached the urns are finer in design showing an interstage of civilization.

704
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,120
It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have been male.

705
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,120
No children or females buried here.

706
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,120
This leads to the belief that the interior sections are warrior barracks.

707
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,120
Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found.

708
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,120
No skin, no clothing nor bedding.

709
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,120
Many of the rooms are bare but for the water vessels.

710
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:12,120
One room about 400 to 700 feet was probably the main dining hall for cooking utensils are found here.

711
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,120
What these people lived on is a problem.

712
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,120
Though it is presumed that they came south for the winter and farmed in the valleys going back north in the summer.

713
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,120
Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the cavern comfortably.

714
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:30,120
One theory is that the present Indian tribe found in Arizona are descendants or serfs or slaves of the people which inhabited the caves.

715
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:38,120
Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years before the Christian era people lived here which reached a high state of civilization.

716
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,120
The chronology of human history is full of gaps.

717
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:49,120
Professor Jordan is much enthused over this discovery and believes what he has found will prove incalculable value in archaeological work.

718
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,120
One thing I have spoken of may be of interest.

719
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:59,120
There is one chamber the passageway to which is not ventilated and when we approach it a deadly, sneaky smell struck us.

720
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:06,120
Our light would not penetrate the gloom and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains.

721
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:13,120
Some say snakes but others boohoo this idea and think that it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients.

722
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,120
I would really hope at this time that there are no snakes as it is thousands of years old in theory.

723
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,120
No sounds are heard but it smells sneaky just the same.

724
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,120
No idea what a sneaky smell is.

725
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,120
The whole underground institution gives one of shaky nerves creeps.

726
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:32,120
The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker.

727
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:41,120
Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space.

728
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:52,120
Horeen, Heron, and Egyptologists believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians and the discovery of the Grand Canyon may throw further light on the human evolution and prehistoric ages.

729
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:58,120
I skipped a bit of the end just because it talks about Native American culture but I think we got the gist of that story.

730
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,120
Pretty groundbreaking hey Chelsea?

731
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:07,120
Yeah, yeah. I'm a little confused by a few parts but I feel like you can take a strut a little.

732
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:20,120
A little bit, yeah. It accuses a Smithsonian Institution member scientist of like actually investigating it and it just dies out from there as I don't know how many of you have heard of the Egyptian artifacts that they've pulled out of the Grand Canyon.

733
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,120
And almost as if they're covering it up.

734
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,120
Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't really just only Egyptian.

735
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,120
No, it was all over the mat. You got some Tibet, you got a Buddha.

736
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,120
The Grand, yep.

737
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,120
You got a snake room.

738
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,120
Yeah.

739
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:41,120
The mind runs wild with all the potential that was in there and the specificity that they were able to bring.

740
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,120
1486 feet or 1482 feet exactly down.

741
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,120
Yeah.

742
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,120
They were measuring the rooms, they found some mummies, pretty cool.

743
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:58,120
Yeah, and there is some contradictions within that that it housed a culture, right? It housed its own culture but it was all artifact.

744
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,120
It was all artifacts from various cultures.

745
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,120
Yes.

746
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,120
On the world.

747
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,120
Yeah, you know, it was an amalgamation of all the people who just happened to meet there on Wednesday nights.

748
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,120
Yeah, yeah, but they were all.

749
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,120
It was potlucks and they kind of just built from there.

750
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,120
They brought their own artifacts.

751
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,120
Yeah. Chelsea, I don't know if you notice this right off the bat.

752
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:25,120
When I introduced this article in the Arizona Gazette, I didn't say the name of the author and that's because there is no attached author to this article.

753
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,120
Okay.

754
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,120
Okay, suspicious.

755
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,120
A little bit.

756
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Wasn't the staff at the Arizona Gazette?

757
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,120
No, they didn't even put that.

758
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,120
Nobody wanted their test generally take the blame.

759
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:37,120
And it goes from here.

760
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,120
I found a good article breaking this down.

761
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,120
The holes in the Arizona Gazette article emerges as soon as you start to examine its basics.

762
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:51,120
For one, there is no recorded existence of anybody working at the Smithsonian Institution by the name of Kinkade or Jordan.

763
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Who are you know, the people investigating it for the Smithsonian?

764
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,120
That's both a very unique name and a very general name.

765
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,120
You can probably find a Jordan anywhere.

766
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:10,120
In the same Gazette in March, they had also like published an article about Kinkade's adventures down to Colorado, but there's no mention of any Egyptian artifacts or a cave that he had found.

767
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,120
Okay.

768
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:22,120
And in 2000, a representative of the Smithsonian Institution, not the Institute, as it is called throughout most of this article and why I had to talk about earlier that is the Smithsonian Institution, not the Institute.

769
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,120
Ah, okay.

770
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,120
Because it is inaccurately named throughout this article.

771
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:35,120
They responded to one of these inquiries in an email exchange affirming their position that the story is in fact a hoax, which they would say.

772
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,120
They would if they're hiding it.

773
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,120
This is the article that this comes from.

774
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,120
Yes.

775
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:47,120
You can't find any trace earlier, but there are a lot of references to this article.

776
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,120
There are a lot that don't claim this one as its reference point, but they basically say the exact same thing.

777
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,120
They just don't reference this article and it come out later.

778
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,120
So it makes sense.

779
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:56,120
So this is their statement.

780
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:05,120
The Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology has searched its files without finding any mention of a Jordan, Kinkade, or a lost Egyptian civilization in Arizona.

781
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,120
Nevertheless, the story continues to be repeated in books and articles.

782
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,120
End quote.

783
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:15,120
Haley Johnson, president of the Grand Canyon Historical Society, also speaks to the inconsistencies in the original article.

784
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,120
There's images in it, which are clearly fake, she says.

785
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:34,120
In 2009, an article in the Old Pioneer magazine published by the Grand Canyon Historical Society, author Dan Lago, examined more than a dozen newspaper articles from the time and found that most ignored the Gazette story entirely with only one paper reprinting it without comment.

786
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:41,120
The one paper that did comment, the Coconino Sun in Flagstaff, Arizona, pointed to a likely culprit behind this hoax story.

787
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:50,120
Joe Mulhotten, a traveling salesman who became famous in the 1870s and 1880s for deceiving newspapers into publishing fake articles.

788
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:58,120
Joe Mulhotten is known in every city of the United States and has probably caused more trouble in newspaper offices than any other man in the country.

789
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,120
The New York Times wrote in 1891.

790
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Like wow.

791
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:18,120
The wild stories written in the most plausible style have more than once caused special correspondence to hurry from coast to coast to investigate some wonderful occurrence which only existed in the imagination of the great liar, again, who would have benefited greatly from a Liars Club.

792
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,120
And I can't believe how often this comes up.

793
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,120
He just needed TV to let's face it.

794
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,120
Yeah, it's true.

795
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:31,120
And yeah, I think that at least explains that controversy and those are the ones we're going to be talking about today.

796
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:40,120
That's why the Smithsonian Institute comes up so often for coverups is mostly giants and ancient pre-civilization to North America that they're hiding from everyone else.

797
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,120
Pretty much every time you look at it, it can be traced directly back to a hoax though.

798
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,120
Oh no.

799
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,120
Or a misidentification.

800
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,120
I was hoping for something more.

801
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,120
Like, yeah, they totally do.

802
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,120
Verified there's giants.

803
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:58,120
Yeah, outside of the three giants that they have, they're all fakes.

804
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,120
Well, that was both educational and disappointing.

805
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,120
I agree fully.

806
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,120
That's just how it goes with a little bit of genocide thrown in, which just is how we do it sometimes.

807
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,120
That's just about every Journey to the Fringe episode.

808
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,120
Yeah.

809
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,120
Chelsea, any questions before we end this one?

810
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,120
Nope, I've gotten them all out as we've gone along on this one.

811
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,120
Well, with that, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.

812
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,120
We are Journey to the Fringe.

813
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:51,120
Thank you all for listening and we will see you next week.

814
00:48:52,120 --> 00:49:03,120
If you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringeatgmail.com.

815
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:23,120
Now, I'll see you in the next episode.