It should be noted that this episode is a continuation of our previous episode, The Dark Knight of Sidonia Rises, Richard C. Hoagland.
If you have not already listened to that episode, then this episode might be a little confusing,
so I highly recommend that you now go back and listen to the episode, The Dark Knight of Sidonia Rises, Richard C. Hoagland.
For those of you who already have listened to it, enjoy the episode.
Chelsea, have you heard about Cop City?
No, but I don't think I do.
It's a good topic starter.
Yeah, no, you... yeah, of course you do.
Okay.
It's a weird story out of Atlanta that I think more people should know about, so if this just happens to kind of fill you in on what's going on, I think it's good.
So I found an article just to kind of give an overview. It was on The Guardian.
If it doesn't come up in this article, basically what it is, is the police have decided that they need a training facility.
It's going to be 70 acres large.
They're going to destroy an old growth forest to build it.
And they're just basically going to build a mock Atlanta so they can practice working with SWAT teams and bombs.
Okay, this sounds weird.
Yeah, it was slated to go in last year, despite the fact that 70% of Atlanta disproves of this plan.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Since right about when they said they're going to do it, there's been protests in this forest and tons of people are protesting so that construction companies can't get into there to start building it.
Okay.
And I think that gives you at least enough background.
Yeah, that seems to be right.
To start going through what's been happening.
And if I know anything about people protesting old growth forests, it's that they eventually kick the people out and cut it down.
Or you know, the police doing something they want to do.
Ah, yes.
Because the police want this training facility at the end of the day.
This article's on The Guardian. It came out January 28th, so it is very recent.
It is called Georgia is Seeking to Define Cop City Protests as Terrorism Experts Say.
Oh my God, no.
This is written by Timothy Pratt in Atlanta.
When author and environmental movement expert Will Potter saw the Atlanta police chief, Darren Shearbaum, tell a recent press conference, quote,
it doesn't take a rocket scientist or an attorney to tell you that breaking windows and setting fires is not protest.
It's terrorism.
End quote.
He could not believe his ears.
The problem Porter told The Guardian is that while you may not have to be a rocket scientist, quote,
the reality is it's been difficult to come to an understanding of what terrorism is and what political violence is for decades.
End quote.
Shearbaum was speaking about a march through Midtown Atlanta, Georgia last Saturday night that began peacefully only to see several protesters
separate and begin breaking windows of businesses and lighting fires to a police car.
The marchers were protesting cop city in 85 acre, 90 million dollar training facility planned for South River Forest, a wooded area southeast of the city.
They were also protesting the fatal police shooting of Tordeguida.
Tordeguida, I'm sorry.
He's from El Salvador, I believe.
His name's hard for me to pronounce.
A fellow activist less than a week earlier on a raid in the Atlanta forest where dozens have been tree sitting and camping for more than years.
And this kid died in a SWAT team attack on the protesters.
If it doesn't come up later, I will explain what happened.
The march arrests of 18 activists charged under a state domestic terrorism law, a series of raids on forests in recent weeks and
Tordeguida's killing have escalated tensions over cop city.
They culminated Thursday afternoon in the Georgia governor, Brian Kamp, declaring a state of emergency under the order.
Up to 1000 national guard troops will be available until February 9th or upon further order.
These actions have all been matched by a strident rhetoric for police and politicians in Georgia, seeking to define a largely peaceful protest movement,
often focused on environmental and racial justice issues and those who participate in it as terrorists.
And it should be noted that this forest area is in a predominantly black neighborhood in Atlanta.
So that's, yeah, that's another part of it that comes up.
It has shocked many observers, including Potter, who see a crude attempt to use as powerful tools as possible to crush opposition.
Quote, I can't help but think it's to shut the protest down or remove them from the public spotlight.
Potter said of Kemp's orders Thursday.
Potter has looked at changing federal government approaches to pursuing terrorism charges against environmental activists in his book.
Green is the new red and insiders account of social movements under siege.
These efforts culminated in attempts to charge activists with domestic terrorism during the 2000s on at least 70 occasions,
succeeding in only 18, according to a 2018 report by the Intercept.
On Saturday night, six activists in Atlanta were arrested and charged with domestic terrorism, bringing the total since December to 18.
All have been charged under a Georgia statute, marking the first time the state law has been used this way in the history of the environmental movements in the U.S.
On the 18th of January, Tordegüeda also became the first environmental activist killed by police in U.S. history, as experts said.
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said Tordegüeda, or Manuel Esteban Paz-Teran, had shot an officer first,
and in recent days has produced photos of a gun and a firearm transaction record that appears to be in Terran's name.
The agency charged with investigating Georgia police shootings also said ballistic evidence from the wounds officer matches the gun,
and that there is no body cam or other footage of the shooting.
And this part pissed me off a lot too.
They sent in a SWAT team to try to break up the cop city protesters.
None of them were wearing police body cams.
Of course they weren't.
So this guy got shot. The cops say he shot at them first, but they have no body cameras to prove what they're saying is true,
despite the fact we know those things exist, and if you think crimes are going to happen or your side of the story might be questioned, you fucking wear those.
Yeah.
And most of the protesters say they only heard one round of shots, not like back and forth.
So protesters don't believe he shot first.
The rest comes on the heels of at least a year's worth of rising public chorus from camp, law enforcement officials and others using the term terrorists to describe the protesters,
even as opposition to the cop city project has grown since Atlanta City Council approved it in late 2021.
Eli Bennett and Joshua Schiffer, two Atlanta attorneys representing some of the activists, both told the Guardian the state statute is overly vague.
Four of the 18 cases brought under federal domestic terrorism charges during the 2000s were dismissed due to allegations being too vague.
According to the Intercept, it's too easy to abuse and I strongly have issue with how domestic terrorism is thrown around in the state law, Schiffer said.
A arrest affidavits obtained by the Guardian for seven activists arrested 18th of January during the same police raid on South River Forest in which Tordegueta was killed.
Begin by alleging that defendants were, quote, participating in actions as part of Defend the Atlanta Forest, a group classified by the United States Department of Homeland Security as domestic violent extremists.
And I just again want to quote what the name of this is, Defend the Atlanta Forest, apparently domestic violent extremists.
But a Homeland Security DHS spokesperson responded to a query by the Guardian, quote,
The Department of Homeland Security does not classify or designate any groups as domestic violent extremists, adding that the agency also regularly shares information regarding perceived threats to the safety and security of all communities.
Meanwhile, a White House bulletin issued early in the Biden administration underlined, quote,
The two most lethal elements of today's domestic terrorism threat are one, racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists who advocate for the superiority of the white race, and two, anti-government or anti-authority violent extremists such as militia violent extremists.
We're going to give just a blurb of the rest.
Broadening definitions and sentencing guidelines arising from these efforts resulted in a situation where, quote,
Even writing pro-animal slogans on sidewalk and chalk, unquote, could get you charged with terrorism, said Ryan Shapiro, co-founder of Property of People.
A national security-oriented nonprofit organization focused on transparency that has released thousands of FBI and CIA documents exposing government over each.
Similarly, Bill McKibbin, author of 20 books on climate change and other subjects, wrote this week that, according to Georgia's domestic terrorism law, quote,
Lie down in front of a police car and you're a terrorist who could spend many, many years behind bars, end quote.
Shapiro shared documents with the Guardian obtained through FOIA, showing that lack of agreement on legal framework around terrorism inhibits DHS's work.
The case in Georgia arises from another thread in the recent history of approaches to domestic terrorism, Shapiro noted, quote,
The post-911 downward creep of national security justification has provided local police with counterterrorism powers previously limited to the FBI and other federal agencies, he said.
I think I can leave that there. There are more paragraphs. Go take a look if you want.
Chelsea, that gives you the gist though, right?
Yeah, that is infuriating.
And you see that in so many things where there's people protesting things, but you know what? The bigger agency wants it to happen.
And so they just find ways to end up taking it.
And it's so wrong on so many levels that they're upping essentially the legality of these people to protest something.
Being all growth force.
And we see that here over here on Vancouver Island as well, people protesting this and yet they're still carrying these all growth trees down.
We've talked about the problem with the power grid being targeted by individuals in the past.
And hell, not that long ago. That was at least at the latest on our New Year's episode.
One thing I never mentioned any of those.
Anybody getting charged as a terrorist for targeting the power.
But trees, because that's a resource.
That just isn't something that does happen, but protecting trees. Yes.
But as something a resource that people, you know, want out of the way because I mean, they can use it for other things,
but they also want it for land to use to do police scenarios.
Like it's ridiculous.
It is. If you want to learn more status coup status, COUP on YouTube has actually done a great job talking to people about this issue.
And there is a place to donate.
So far, these protests are actually done a great job stalling Cops City from getting built.
If you're on that side of it, which I am, I believe construction is now eight months behind schedule just because these people won't let them even start.
So if they can just keep postponing it,
eventually they might actually get something out of this.
Yeah, I hope so. I really hope they do.
And I want to give you guys all a place to go to donate.
It's ATLsolidarity.org.
You can put it in the episode notes.
If you feel like donating to a cause to stop this Cops City from being built, ATLsolidarity.org.
Chelsea, anything else to add?
No, that's so depressing. I don't.
It just gives you such a feeling of hopelessness that they're just going to do whatever they want anyway.
But they want that feeling of hopelessness, particularly with the people protesting.
Yeah.
And that's why they're charging them with terrorism to think that their repercussions are going to be far worse than they actually should be.
It's disgusting.
Far protesting.
Which they have all the right to.
Yeah, they do.
And with that, let's get on with this episode.
Okay.
From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where we find our episode already in progress.
Next up for things he talks about, he really likes to talk about how NASA keeps tons of secrets.
Specifically, why they keep the secrets?
Well, first off, because it was started by and run by Nazis.
That's, he brings that up all the time.
It's a bit of a half truth.
We've covered this before on Operation Paperclip, Nazis to the Moon.
The US did brung over rocket engineers from Nazi's.
Germany after the war.
However, NASA started before that and there were other people involved well before any
Nazi involvement started.
And he says it's still a Nazi one thing.
It's full of people that have no connections.
But that doesn't stop him from talking about it.
He also talks about the Brookings report.
Copeland asserts that this report was commissioned by NASA and states the public cannot be informed
of extraterrestrial life, whether past or present, as they do not have the capacity to
handle this information.
This is a partial truth that is incredibly misleading.
It's a 200 plus page document in the most interesting sections of the report.
The author contemplated the possibility that contact might be made with extraterrestrial
intelligence and they warned that this might not be an unmitigated cause for celebration.
This is a quote from the Brookings report.
Anthropological files contain many examples of societies sure of their place in the universe,
which have disintegrated when they have had to associate with previously unfamiliar societies
with thousands of different ideas in different life ways.
Others that survived such such an experience usually did so by paying the price of changes
in values and attitudes and behavior.
That's on page 183 and on page 103.
It has been speculated that of all groups, scientists and engineers might be the most
devastated by the discovery of relatively spooktury creatures, since these professions
are most clearly associated with the master of nature rather than with the understanding
of expression of man.
This understanding of nature might vitiate all our theories at the very least if not
also require a culture and perhaps a brain inaccessible to earth scientists.
So it did say a few things that would be negatives of finding aliens and also has positives.
Quote on page 183.
The knowledge that life existed in other parts of the universe might lead to a greater unity
of men on earth based on the oneness of man or on the age old assumption that any stranger
is threatening.
This would depend on what if anything was communicated between man and the other beings.
So it's over 200 page document that he breaks down to humans would freak out if we saw aliens.
So NASA's not allowed to tell us there's anything about aliens and they hide it.
They specifically hide it.
And I saw the argument against why that's stupid in that if NASA found evidence of alien
life, their budget would absolutely balloon.
Like they would get so much more money to investigate this life.
So why would they still be hiding it?
There's a lot of things.
Well, it's seen like a half hole in his story so far.
And that's eat finds.
He was one of these guys who finds half truth and elaborates on them to the point where
you can't say he's fully lying.
He's just taking things out of context or in a way they're not.
Yeah, or misunderstanding it entirely.
I wouldn't even say it's like a half truth.
It's like you can't say it's wrong, but the way he's interpreting it is wrong.
But if you called him out on it, you say, well, it says it in the Brookings report and
he would technically be right.
But I feel like anywhere he's going is specifically not letting him get called out.
They're just letting him go on.
Oh, yeah.
And he tends to dominate conversations.
If you ever see a show with him, he's leading it to where he wants it to go.
And he's almost taking his intellect and holding it over the host and saying, look how much
smarter I am.
I'm actually going to teach the host what's going on.
Yeah.
And I wouldn't necessarily call that intellect.
Yeah.
I listened to a lot of podcasts to get in the mood for this and he does this a lot.
I wouldn't call it intellect.
It's more just, you know, having that charisma and ego be able to steer the conversation
even when you're wrong because he clearly isn't smarter than most of these people because
he has no idea.
And I wish I could really find some of like comments from the guy who hired him at his
first curator gig or from the media who hired him as their science advisor and like see,
like, do you regret it?
Why did this relationship end?
And like, what actually happened to get it there?
Yeah.
And what drew you to him to want to hire him?
But we'll talk about that in a bit.
That's unfortunately like it was in the 60s.
So it was before the internet.
There's not a great record of it.
And then everybody that's really involved in that and I are then that him is dead because
he's in his late 70s.
Next up, he talks about torsion fields.
This came up in the Sedonia thing, his idea of hyper physics and that there's basically
an endless supply of free energy that can be tapped into from the fourth dimension.
This comes right from the rational wiki on his views of torsion fields.
And so I'm just going to read right from it.
Rational wiki is fantastic because it is very partisan and I'm just going to read it word
for word as it shows up because I find it hilarious.
That's what we need right now.
I feel like what does he say about torsion fields?
The idea bracket, it does not amount to a theory, close bracket is that massive objects
rotating at high speed create torsion fields that propagate through space and interact
with any matter they pass through.
Changing that matter is inertia.
Hogan stole this idea from or was inspired by the amateur scientist Bruce De Palma on
his website.
Hogan explains as follows.
De Palma, since the 1970s, has been carrying out perhaps the most exhaustive laboratory
studies of what bodies and motions.
Rotating massive objects over 30 pounds, spinning at very high velocities around 7600 revolutions
per minute that I had ever seen.
He had thereby accumulated an extensive experimental database on a subject not normally dealt with
in mainstream physics or mechanics, rotation.
De Palma proposed as a result of his wide ranging rotations experiments that quote rotating
masses and quote in general set up some kind of hitherto unrecognized quote inertial field
and quote in their vicinity bracket.
The more widely used term for this field now because of how it's assessed is a quote torsion
field unquote because torsion means literally rotation close bracket.
Massive objects include distant planets and even the sun.
Hogan has extended the idea to stating without proof that large pyramids amplify this effect.
On red ice internet radio in February of 2013, Hogan stated quote the predictions of this
model are overwhelmingly confirmed and quote this statement is bullshit crossed out an
exaggeration.
The fact is that this quote model unquote is loosely defined and he has never made a
specific enough prediction to test it.
Although he has said repeatedly that he has measured the torsion field and he has never
stated any actual measurements or even said what units the fields will be measured in.
Neither has he ever stated the mathematical relationship between the frequency of the
torsion field and that of the acutron which is the device he uses to measure it.
So he has an experimental apparatus that he uses to measure it. His experimental apparatus
consists of a boulevard acutron wristwatch hooked up to a precision frequency center
which is in turn cable to a laptop computer which displays the exact frequency of the
watch's tuning fork as a function of time.
He likes people to think he rigged this all up himself but in fact the microset sensor
and software were supplied by Brian Mumford of Mumford Microsystems and the computer
hookup was done for him by Bill Alec.
Hogan together with his former companion the homeopathist Robin Falcov has taken this
equipment to Mexico, Florida and the UK to test the idea. Usually taking it to some
massive stone structure at the time of an eclipse or transit. Never case he has proclaimed
the result stunning or astonishingly confirmatory.
And after the abortive expedition to Manakea in May of 2013 he said the technology can
save the planet.
However, quite apart from the shakiness of the underlying idea, there are a number of
very grave problems with the protocol and data interpretation. He calls his sorties
experiments but as science they are unconvincing to put it mildly.
And on his radio show on April 1st 2018 he announced that he had broken the device. I
made a mistake the other day and dropped the damn thing on a hardwood floor. It obviously
has incredible fine wires in broke. He appeals for donations to pay for repairs but there
is no sign that this very small audience coughed.
Well that about tracks with everything we've heard so far. The whole thing not just dropping.
This next one I find hilarious because it just gives you the mindset that he has and
the trouble that we're seeing with him particularly with stealing other people's ideas.
So this comes from an article titled The Face Behind the Face on Mars. A skeptical look at
Richard C. Hoagland by Gary P. Postner.
So Hoagland told an audience on July 13th 1990 that quote, Carl I'm gonna add in here
again because that's who they're talking about.
For many years has been taking public credit for the pioneer plaque which of course Eric
Burgess and I can see. The pioneer plaque is basically a piece of gold plated material
that we sent into space on the pioneer space probes because it went off outside of our
solar system. We said hey wouldn't it be neat if this is the first thing that if we actually
it runs into aliens they actually see this and they can learn about us.
You can find it online.
Richard Hoagland did this.
He says he did. Carl for many years has been taking public credit for the pioneer plaque
which of course Eric Burgess and I conceived. On a broadcast later that year on November
16th he added that Carl was involved with Eric Burgess and me in the design of the message
and quote.
Then the publishers forward to the Monions Mars heat we find this message.
Among Hoagland's most valued contributions to history and science is the conception along
with Eric Burgess of mankind's first interstellar message in 1971.
The engraved plaque carried beyond the solar system by the first man made object to escape
from the sun's influence.
Hoagland and Burgess took the idea to Carl Sagan who successfully executed it aboard
this spacecraft and acknowledged their creation in the prestigious journal science.
When I inquired of Carl Sagan as the precise nature of Hoagland's role in the creation
and design of the pioneer template, Sagan's reply September 6th 1990 made it clear that
Eric Burgess and Richard Oakland did no more than suggest to me that a message be put aboard
pioneer 10 and 11.
Frank Drake and I of the Drake equation fame which we did an episode on as well with an
assist from Linda Sagan Carl's wife at the time who prepared the artwork did the design
and I was responsible for getting it through the NASA and White House approval process.
Hoagland did not contribute one bit of data towards the message design and quote.
Yeah, just based on everything we've gone through I could see him taking credit for
that if didn't fact say there should be a message.
He was vaguely around it at the time.
Right.
That was him.
Frank Drake confirmed Sagan's account quote on September 27th and October 18th.
I believe this is 1990 but I don't know for sure quote.
Neither Eric Burgess nor Richard Hoagland contributed any ideas or even suggestion as
to what should be on the pioneer 10 and no suggestion as to any message content.
They did point out that pioneer 10 was going to leave the solar system and it would be
nice to put some form of message on it.
That was as far as the involvement went.
I am sure that Eric Burgess would be glad to confirm this the idea that there should
be an engraved plaque and the type of information which should be engraved was developed mutually
by Carl and me.
I remember very clearly that we started with completely open minds as to what the message
should be and without any prior suggestion as possible message content end quote.
In a note of acknowledgments at the conclusion of Sagan and Drake's February 25th 1972 science
article entitled a message from earth they put this quote Burgess and Hoagland are credited
with the initial suggestion to include some message aboard pioneer 10 end quote.
But as Hoagland acknowledges on page 98 of his own book it was actually Burgess who first
said to Hoagland it ought to carry a message end quote.
Then on the next line Hoagland claims that he had already thought of the idea.
Yeah I gotta say I'm on Richard Hoagland's side at this point.
Richard see Hoagland though I'm not sure about it.
So quote that was the unvoiced thought which had been nagging at me ever since I gazed
through the craft's thick quartz windows end quote.
So at the end he's being credited with doing this the plaque.
It turns out that somebody came to him as they're talking and says they should include
a message on this.
And he's like oh yeah I thought about that the other day I count is coming up with the
idea.
So this guy carry telephones Burgess who told him the following story.
I came up with the idea that the craft carry message from earth and I mentioned it at lunch
that afternoon to Hoagland then a freelance writer and Don Bain Los Angeles Herald examiner
note also character who didn't say oh yeah I thought of that yesterday include me in this.
And I said that the right man to get this aboard would be Carl Sagan so I went around
to the jet propulsion labs and Hoagland was in tow with me and found Sagan and I said
hey Carl I've got an idea for you.
All Hoagland did was support me and say it's a good idea.
Yeah.
Oh this guy.
And then I have to find I hope I didn't close this web page because it is fucking hilarious.
I wanted to ask if you have this is a while back a clip of when Art Bell called out that
guy.
I tried so hard to find it but okay no it's lost the time or in the catalogs which I'm
not willing to pay for.
No no yeah.
Oh man did I close this window I really hope I didn't.
I did damn it that's okay.
When you're recently close.
Yeah I'm going to go to my history really quick.
This is written by an Andrew Johnson who is apparently well known in the 9-11 community.
That's the information that he kind of pedals the conspiracy.
Written on April 11th 2011 is Richard Hoagland on a dark mission.
I was interested that on Sunday April 3rd 2011 Richard Hoagland gave a presentation
in Amsterdam as part of a conference entitled quote secret space program unquote in August
2010.
I was made aware by the organizer Jerome van Stratten that this conference will be
happening.
At that time I had spoken to Jerome at the exo politics leads conference where I presented
quote the case for anti-gravity.
This presentation fits directly into the secret space program research area.
Jerome did invite me to have a table to distribute some materials there.
However due to certain timing and family commitments I decided not to attend.
I was also grateful to Jerome for offering to display a few copies of my self published
book entitled 9-11 finding the truth.
Jerome also displayed some DVDs of a TV presentation of myself and Dr. Judy Wood that
was done in February 2009 about the destruction of the World Trade Center.
I wish in retrospect that I had decided to attend as I may have been able to question
Mr. Hoagland about a number of aspects of what was presented.
One might have thought that Mr. Hoagland would present something about his research from
his dark mission book co-authored with Mike Vera.
However much of the material that he presented had nothing to do with dark mission.
What?
Mars, Yapotis or any of those subjects.
Rather the material he presented was primarily about the events of 9-11.
What?
Yes, some readers may know of my special interest in 9-11 as it is the topic I have
written about the most on his website and about which I have the most information posted.
Similarly, readers will likely know of my association with Dr. Judy Wood who has singularly
done more than any other researcher to determine what actually happened and take that knowledge
forward into a quay tam complaint against NIST's contractors for ScienceFrog.
The complaint was eventually filed to the US Supreme Court.
When I first listened to Hoagland's presentation I was frankly shocked.
For about one and a half hours he presented some of the catalog of the evidence that Dr.
Judy Wood had compiled and made available on her website.
Though Mr. Hoagland did reference Dr. Judy Wood's name and made brief mention of her
website it must be pointed out that Mr. Hoagland has never been in contact with either Dr.
Wood or myself before or after this presentation.
Neither of us had any idea that he would be presenting this research in as much detail
as he did.
Neither of people have already made remarks such as isn't it fantastic that someone like
Richard Hoagland is endorsing Judy Wood's research?
Well this might be true if he was presenting it fairly inaccurately.
However, as you will see from details discussed below, which we're not going to get into
unfortunately.
Oh damn it!
Mr. Hoagland made a number of serious errors and omissions in his presentation and had
he consulted Dr. Wood or myself or if the organizers had invited Dr. Wood to present
this evidence, these mistakes could have been avoided.
Both myself and especially Dr. Wood worked very very hard to get details correct.
Science and engineering are nothing without details being correct.
Hence we both felt we needed to point out where there are mistakes in his presentation
so we can ensure a true and accurate record of the matters and becoming available to people.
So yeah.
Oh shit this is awesome.
I didn't want to go too much because-
Is there anything made for that he got wrong?
I'm sure there is.
I just wanted to go over the fact that he plagiarized entire just out of nowhere 9-11
presentation and got it wrong.
That is just what I was looking for.
I love that for him.
It's like I love him doing complex math equations that he has no background in doing at all.
And getting belittled, he does get belittled by a math professor on it as well.
He has something called the telephone problem that he shows him or sends him several times
that he refuses to acknowledge by saying like look if you just put several telephone numbers
together you can find crazy anomalies and you brand him a-
Yeah I didn't know that.
That's a crazy fact by the way.
And I'm no mathematician.
But does he actually address anyone that says that he's wrong and this is insane?
They're attacking him from a political stance and I actually saw a few people on the podcast
side listening.
He's not going to get it.
He's above that.
Well and people on the other side don't really want to debate him because he is so long-winded
and he does what's called a gish gallop where he unloads so much information on you that
you can't actually address every single one and it looks like he wins the argument.
So it's not even really worth it.
And I guess that's where he's gotten where he is but this is hilarious.
This is all things that he has no expertise in except making shit up and bullshitting
so really he does have expertise in it.
I don't know if you knew this.
I found this out as I was researching this episode.
It appears he got banned from coast to coast for a while.
Would that be why Bob Dylan was doing his-
Robert Zimmerman yeah because he wasn't the science advisor anymore.
And so-
Do I remember that?
I was looking into it and I was like wow that's weird.
Here's a gap from 2015 to 2022.
He's back on.
I will say coast to coast is famous for picking people off and if they don't want the publicity
about it they will not address it at all.
They will just silently do it.
There's other people however that George Norrie will not shut up about why he won't have
them back but some of them they'll secretly do it under the radar.
Could you find anything?
Yeah part of it is if they're a big enough deal they don't want to piss people off.
So I did find out the reason apparently he really belittled George Norrie a lot in the
conversations or at least George Norrie felt belittled.
And in the last episode actually because it was when New Horizon was on its way to go
see Pluto.
Richie C was actually set to host an episode of coast to coast as it was flying by Pluto
and talking about everything that we would be unpacking with it.
But before that happened he got banned and I found this and it was oh what was the website?
Can't remember.
But this is great.
George Norrie's attitude on this episode, the last episode they're on, ran rampant
from worship to fury.
At one point he said, Richard you're amazing Richard everything you say comes true in the
end.
But near the end of their conversation when talk turned to plans for Hoagland to guest
host in July on the occasion of the Pluto Encanter it got a little ugly.
Hoagland tried to sandbag Norrie on the air by arguing for a five hour extended show.
This was obviously something that had already been discussed and rejected.
So Norrie shut it down in no uncertain terms.
I tried to find this episode I could not.
Damn it that was my next question.
If anybody was looking for it it is the June 19th, 2015 episode of coast to coast AM.
June 19th, 2015.
I would love to have that to put that right here.
And after that there's a seven year hiatus and it sounds fantastically hilarious.
And that's that thing he has that ego and it pisses some people off and it gets them
to where he is because he also sounds like he knows everything.
And George Norrie doesn't like to ruffle any feathers.
No I'm surprised that he actually said sternly no we're not doing that.
Yeah and that's actually hilarious.
And then he didn't end up hosting that episode despite the fact he was trying to pump it up.
I love it.
There's one more thing I wanted to address.
There is the Abidos Helicopter or the Abidos Hieroglyph.
You would know the one I'm talking about Chelsea it's a hieroglyph that they say looks like
a helicopter.
It's on like every ancient aliens episode.
Okay.
Richard says he's the one who discovered it or at least thought that it looked like a
helicopter.
Okay that's what he says.
Yeah he says he's the one who first proposed that it looks like a helicopter.
There are many people who say like no you're full of shit on that one.
Yeah yeah I'm gonna go with yes because.
I just want to conclude that one passingly because that's one people might actually recognize
as well.
Also people have advice.
You can also look at things.
So what has Richie C. been up to?
He can be found collecting evidence of advanced law civilizations anywhere anyone ever has
taken a picture.
You can hear all about it as well as a play by play of an old man struggling with technology
on his podcast the other side of midnight.
That sounds awful.
Honestly his most recent episode includes like him trying to figure around his computer.
It's hilarious.
What's the opening like?
Is there like catchy music or anything?
I can't remember it's not catchy.
Oh damn it if it's not memorable.
He believes the most recent we talked about this in our year end update the Artemis shuttle
tests found evidence of domes on the moon as well as launch time and times out of communication
while on the far side of the moon were picked to make this launch an occult ceremony.
Yeah I thought about that that was my idea.
Okay he has stated the original Star Wars trilogy are a true story of this previous
civilization that he's uncovering evidence of.
He has said that there is a city on Ceres the dwarf planet in the asteroid belt that has
one one millionth the gravity of earth.
Okay I mean the odd said he's right is probably some odd you know.
He also has said that NASA found a quote C-3PO head on the moon at some point.
Pluto is a vast library left behind by this advanced civilization.
There's a 13 kilometer tall constructed wall around Saturn's moon Yapidus.
There is a literal death star orbiting Saturn as the moon Mimus or Mimus and he is also a
big proponent of an ancient astronaut hypothesis as conforming to his views of the whole solar
system.
And then that story that I alluded to earlier about him being in jail for a period of time.
This comes from the emoluments of Mars it's a blog from April of 2020 I believe.
Jose Calavito who does for CEDO history what I do for pseudoscience evidently tortured himself
by listening to the whole three hours of last Sunday's other side of midnight Richard Hogan
podcast on blog talk radio.
Calavito made his review into yesterday's blog and I enjoyed his digs at pseudo historian
Scott Walton.
Hogan's Sunday night guest and one of Calavito's perennial punching bags.
I enjoyed reading that Hogan called the Utah monolith now disappeared a quote hyper dimensional
tetrahedron.
Do you remember those when like those monoliths were showing up in places in like early 2020?
Yes, yes.
They were hyper dimensional tetrahedrons so you know that torsion field.
They're meant to gather free energy.
Is that the thing he dropped on the ground?
Yeah, that's apparently that's what they were.
And then after that you post this here's another little secret about monuments.
This is from likely Richard Grossman who's posting under the name Hogan Hogan who published
his book monuments of Mars 19.
Here's another little secret about monuments.
The only way the damn thing ever got written was that Hogan went to prison for one of his
inexplicable and weird scans.
Bracket, ostensibly something about a stolen rental car and a New York planetarium credit
card and whether it really happened or not as reported whether it was really a scam or
not and whether he was really guilty or sentenced fairly or not.
In the end he was incarcerated over a New York state warrant that he chose to flee to
the Golden State, California rather than defend in state.
He was apprehended in Berkeley and was stopped for having a cardboard rear license plate
refused to plea bargain.
So got housed in LA County jail for over a year.
Clearly my version of the story is cobbled out of hearsay from a variety of semi reliable
sources but it roughly tracks with some of the events that actually happened and he was
in jail.
That's where I addressed my mail to him regarding the book and he didn't write much of the book.
Just I had to add that story.
Thank you for that.
You did have to get out of it.
His filmography includes E.T. Among Us presents Alaska's secret pyramid in the worldwide alien
archaeology UFO diaries the Chris Gether Show and E.T.s Among Us UFO witnesses and whistleblowers
and I wanted to end this off with a few Reddit posts that I found that are just fantastic.
They were from the coast to coast subreddit.
I especially love that they call George Norrie the putts or Mr. Putts like that.
Oh yeah the coast to coast AM Reddit is really good actually I enjoyed it.
Anybody that addresses him as Norrie or ask why they do that or what people have wrong
with it.
I immediately delete it because they get shit on so much.
I love this one it's from UFO girl 1904.
It was posted 10 months ago.
I knew Richard as we both hit the conference circuit in the late 90s early 2000.
His confidence is narcissistic.
He believes so wholly in his pedigree that no one challenges him.
His lectures were a literal sideshow like in a circus.
After seeing him at many conference parties for insiders I just couldn't handle it.
I stayed as far away as possible.
At one after party he was literally holding his wine glass like some kind of English
aristocrat.
As for his background it has always been questionable.
He has his biggest fan and has a way of making you think he's the smartest guy in the room.
The guy wrote the book on the only way to make money in the UFO field back in the day.
I'm surprised he's not doing the ancient aliens circus show which many of my colleagues
now do.
You have to understand back in the day making any money off of a lifetime of research was
brutal.
Now many of them sell out every show or documentary willing to pay.
I found that hilarious and definitely conforms to the view that I've formed of Richard Hogan.
I do like that one.
And then my personal favorite this comes from a physics forum which I'll put the link in
the episode description so you can go take a look if you want.
One of Hogan's favorite resume items is his stint as science advisor for Walter Cronkite
in the CPS Evening News.
It turns out that today is Hogan's birthday and he was on coast to coast AM via telephone.
Cronkite called in of all people.
Cronkite first said that he wanted George and all of his listeners to know this and
then he referred to Hogan's hocus pocus nonsense.
His babbling about Mars and that he wished he hadn't been led astray by Hogan.
That Hogan was probably qualified for medical treatment under the CPS insurance plan and
he was glad to be away from him.
Cronkite alluded to this all being a joke but in my opinion it was no joke.
He never said once nice things.
I think Cronkite has been waiting for this for a very long time.
His work with Cronkite is one of Hogan's most prized claims.
It's hilarious.
And yeah, that's just some of the fun stuff I found online about him.
Very nice curriculum vete if you don't look into it at all.
I think George Santos, the Republican candidate that we talked about in our last episode,
could really learn a thing or two about this.
How to properly lie on a CV.
Oh no kidding.
Chelsea, any final thoughts?
I do have some final.
I've learned a lot about, you know, I don't know how he was never on my, like he was on
my radar or being like crazy but not like so crazy.
Like I think part of it is well-caught by he.
I don't think he's ever monetized it in a way that we've noticed because his big thing
is doing lectures and showing up at the conferences and he did a book every now and then.
True.
I think that's kind of why I flew into the room.
I think there must be something to what you're saying but he's earned a spot on here.
That's for sure.
I've learned a lot.
I did not think it would go that way when I first doing this research.
I really did.
No, I did not expect this.
That's why I'm saying I learned a lot.
I didn't expect a lot of this.
I didn't expect it to be so egotistical, which I guess you have to if you're going to push
yourself to the level that is.
Not a lot to back without.
No, especially without doing any of the usual requirements to do the things you want to.
Like he did no.
He's completely fabricated everything out of thin air.
Even his math skills.
And I mean he is constantly doing math.
So there's that.
He is the sanest man I've seen.
It's not correct math but he is doing math.
So it checks out.
So I'm impressed.
I'm impressed at this level that this episode has served out for us.
Yeah.
And there could be a whole other episode on this guy with all the lies that he's talked
about.
But I frankly thought I could have fit this onto one episode.
It's probably going to end up being the two episodes.
Yeah.
That really spoke for itself about probably how much more he's lied about.
Gotta.
Especially about math.
You gotta lie about math.
But with that, I hope you guys all enjoyed the two part 100th episode of the show.
And I hope you guys enjoyed the episode of Journey to the Fringe.
I have been Taylor here with Chelsea talking about UFO assholes as we always wanted.
Live in our best lives.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.
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