1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,560 It's time for another episode of I Haven't Read This Article, but I'm about to relay it to everybody listening. 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:08,640 Because it is important news, apparently. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,280 Yes, because it has been recommended to me by someone. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,200 Somebody who also hasn't read it. 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:16,160 Just say it. 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:16,640 Someone you've been calling. 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,280 Yes. 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,160 I hope you like these kind of intros. 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:28,400 Let's start with the headline, even if it gives it away, because we'll all have some where to go with it. 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,720 Yeah, we'll all have some context. 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,480 Okay, headline, here it is. 12 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:35,440 He's on his own in little quotations. 13 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,680 King Charles Ouss, Prince Andrew from Buckingham Palace. 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,240 Any presence that the palace is officially over, a source told the Sun newspaper. 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,080 I'm gonna go ahead and say it finally. 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,520 I've been waiting for this moment. 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:48,960 I hope there's drama in this. 18 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,400 Okay, Prince Andrew's office is being removed from Buckingham Palace. 19 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:53,920 It was in Buckingham Palace? 20 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:54,960 You had an office? 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,840 Yeah. 22 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,680 This is a funny dude. 23 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:58,800 Woo. 24 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,080 Yeah, no kidding. 25 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,160 I'm really hoping someone went in and wiped everything off of his desk. 26 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,720 King Chuck just comes in and rips everything off and yells, you're out of here. 27 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Yeah, get the fuck out and punches him. 28 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,800 That's what I'm looking for with this. 29 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,080 Okay, it goes on. 30 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,320 It's not just hearsay from here. 31 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:24,720 This grace Duke of York, who stepped back from public duty three years ago after being accused of sexual assault, 32 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,400 retained his skeleton staff at the official home of the royal family. 33 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,440 How did we know this? 34 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,400 I feel like we've been covering this as much as we can. 35 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,200 He only has non-security staff. 36 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,040 Like any staff at all is just basically the people who can dress him and wipe his ass. 37 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,840 For without them, he would be useless. 38 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,000 So he's retained a skeleton staff to do exactly what Taylor just said, 39 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,160 at the official home of the royal family. 40 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:54,080 But he has reportedly now been told to move on and not to use the London property as an address 41 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,280 for correspondence. 42 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,960 Oh, this is serious. 43 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,320 Wonder how this went down. 44 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:04,640 Andrew, who settled the case brought by Virginia Geffrey, I just about said that all in one word, 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,480 in February, but made no admission of liability is believed to be 46 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,800 recruiting a new communications team, but must foot the bill for his staff himself. 47 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,720 This keeps on happening to him. 48 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,840 A source told the Sun newspaper, probably King Chuck, 49 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,240 any presence at the palace is officially over. 50 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,280 We already read that guys. 51 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,080 We already knew that. 52 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,360 We're all in this together. 53 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,480 King has made it clear he is not a working royal. 54 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,440 He is on his own. 55 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,080 He is making it clear because we didn't even know he had an office still at Buckingham Palace. 56 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,000 That was a pretty well guarded secret. 57 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:39,920 I do want to focus back a little bit on that oxymoron that King Chuck just said, a working royal. 58 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:44,640 Yeah, because those hands are so delicate, probably touching even more than two pens, 59 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,880 probably make that skip all off the phone. 60 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,760 Let me see if this is relevant. 61 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,840 Oh, I don't even know what that means. 62 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:59,040 It is a further blow to the 62 year old prince after I hate like old princes like why even 63 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:04,000 after Prince was 40, he changed his name to some weird logo or symbol. 64 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,880 Like even he knew there's no such thing as an old exactly. 65 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,000 Yeah, it's weird. 66 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:08,640 It's weird. 67 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:14,560 Is a further blow to the 62 year old prince after the home office this month made the decision to 68 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,360 strip him of his 24 hour arm security. 69 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,640 We covered that already. 70 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,720 That was in our year end update. 71 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:21,840 So don't worry. 72 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:22,960 We covered it better than that. 73 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,040 It's ever important part of that. 74 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,120 It shouldn't be that old and be a prince. 75 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,760 So just kick him out of the palace already. 76 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:30,720 Also, he's not a prince. 77 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:31,280 Don't worry. 78 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,760 Just British Andy, the lovable screw up. 79 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,800 Yeah, exactly. 80 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,560 And however, Andrew will join his brother Chuck, his own wife, Sarah Ferguson and other members 81 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,640 of the family for Christmas in Sangre. 82 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,280 We know that guys is believed to be retaining his royal lodge home on the Windsor estate. 83 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:54,000 And that concludes the past paced, enthralling saga of what's currently going on with regular 84 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,720 person Andy. 85 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,240 To be honest, I wish there was more drama in that. 86 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Like throwing your shit out the window, like get the fuck out of here. 87 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,280 Throwing his prathatum as the friend of the lady. 88 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,720 King Chuck has his assistant throwing a computer out the window. 89 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:09,520 Yeah. 90 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,160 Like after he tried but failed to even look. 91 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,040 Everything else was a disappointment. 92 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:15,360 Yeah. 93 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,120 Well, no, I actually learned something 94 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,080 very important from this episode that has happened. 95 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,520 And that is, is that there is office space available in Buckingham Palace. 96 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,480 Oh, that is important. 97 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,240 Should be looking to rent. 98 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,240 The other important things we learned is that princes can be old. 99 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,600 We must not be ages. 100 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Look for a place. 101 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,000 But they're probably creepy. 102 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,200 Yeah, they definitely are. 103 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,720 If we look at regular person Andy, who was once a prince, is a prince. 104 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:39,840 Is he still a prince? 105 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:41,120 No, he got that title taken away. 106 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,960 Why did we call him a prince here? 107 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:43,840 That's just that we know. 108 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:46,240 Again, they don't really treat it the right way. 109 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,000 Like we had to do that in the last article. 110 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,600 His name is British Andy. 111 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:50,960 He has no titles. 112 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,800 And we learned other stuff too, but this is an opener. 113 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,160 So who's keeping track? 114 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,160 And I think that about sums it up. 115 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,960 That's that's for your end, Taylor and Chelsea, to worry about. 116 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,120 But with that, let's get on with our episode. 117 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,440 From the unexplained to the mundane, 118 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,200 come join us on a journey to the fringe. 119 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:19,280 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe. 120 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,400 Now officially 100 episodes in. 121 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,960 You think by this point that we would have reached the fringe, 122 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,400 but let's not focus on that. 123 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,160 It's really about the friends you make, 124 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,200 and more importantly, the assholes you learn about along the way. 125 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,800 It really is. Yes. 126 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,160 That's the most important. 127 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,080 I find this episode very fitting to bring us into the triple digits, 128 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,520 because originally the concept Chelsea and I always wanted to do, 129 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,160 and we've probably talked about this several times on the podcast now, 130 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,640 is talk about assholes in the UFO community. 131 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,080 It was founded on that. 132 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,840 It was founded entirely on that. 133 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,240 And it took us way too long to get there. 134 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,160 But once we opened that tap, 135 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,480 we realized what their true passions are, 136 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,160 and it is shitting on assholes, 137 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,200 or at least explaining them, explaining assholes to the world. 138 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,760 I can't believe we chose this to be our 100th episode. 139 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,000 I didn't even know we were at that. 140 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,840 It didn't already surpass it. 141 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:10,880 It really flies by. 142 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,200 For this episode, 143 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,720 we're going to take a look at our very own Night of Sidonia, 144 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 and that is Mr. Richard C. Hoagland. 145 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,760 Now, before I even start this episode off, 146 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,920 I do need to say that I think the C actually is fairly important, 147 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:32,000 because if you Google, there's a guy who went missing for 20 years, 148 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,520 and a case of identity theft of another Richard Hoagland. 149 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,840 At least I hope it's another Richard Hoagland, 150 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:40,320 because I didn't look at it for this episode. 151 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,400 But yeah, there is a Richard Hoagland in North Carolina 152 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,840 that is either a victim of or somebody who was victimizing others with identity theft. 153 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:50,320 Oh no. 154 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:51,760 Yeah. 155 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,760 And we can't confirm whether it's the same one. 156 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,560 I'm going to put on what I know about Richard C. Hoagland. 157 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,400 It is probably not him. 158 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Although he probably claims that all the things that are happening there are about him. 159 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,240 But that'll probably like, you'll get that idea as we talk about this one. 160 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,560 We're going to look at the life triumphs, 161 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,120 as he would probably call them, of Mr. Hoagland. 162 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,000 What did we call him before? 163 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:14,720 Richie C. 164 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,000 We didn't call him anything. 165 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,360 I think you're thinking of Richard Doty. 166 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,560 Richie D. Yes. 167 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:21,680 He called him Richie D. 168 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,960 So this could be Richie's D. 169 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,240 Yeah. Richie. 170 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,040 We're going to look at this guy's life. 171 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,320 It's a very long one, 172 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,320 so there's going to be some things to it. 173 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,560 We're going to look at some of the things that he's famous for, 174 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,880 whether or not he should be famous for them. 175 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:40,400 And we're going to finish it up with a few forum statements that I found that are just hilarious. 176 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:40,960 Nice. 177 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,040 But we're going to leave that till the very end. 178 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,160 Can I just interject? 179 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,920 We consider him famous? 180 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,320 He is, I think, as famous as you can get in the UFO community. 181 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,520 Like, if you're going to put on a UFO conference, 182 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,120 and you can get him as a headliner, 183 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,480 like you're going to probably sell out. 184 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,040 Huh. I'm just trying to think like who, who, 185 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,360 if I was trying to draw people in the UFOs, who would I want? 186 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:04,880 Probably like Tom DeLong. 187 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:05,920 That's... 188 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,720 Well, yeah, but no, that's if you want the common person. 189 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,440 Like Richard Hoagland has really cornered the market on the UFO people. 190 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,040 And can be a conspiracy. 191 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:15,840 Yeah, exactly. 192 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,640 If you want to sell out the UFO convention to UFO convention attendees, 193 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,000 you bring Richard C. Hoagland. 194 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:22,400 Okay. 195 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,200 Richie C. 196 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,400 Do you just want to sell out? 197 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,280 You don't care who comes? 198 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,320 You bring Tom DeLong. 199 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,080 I'm already learning something new. 200 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Who would be next? 201 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:29,760 What's his name? 202 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,360 The filmmaker might be next. 203 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,120 He's hanging out with George Knapp and at Jeremy Something. 204 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,240 Jeremy Corbell. 205 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:38,640 Yeah. 206 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Yeah. 207 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:39,840 I think so. 208 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,040 Now I would go for David Wilcock just for Jason Giggles. 209 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,440 No, you let David Wilcock set up outside. 210 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,080 Jason, do your UFO convention. 211 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,040 Because that is where he is most comfortable. 212 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,720 Oh, there he is. 213 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,440 I just think it would be the most hilarious thing. 214 00:08:59,440 --> 00:08:59,680 Yeah. 215 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,480 George Knapp though too. 216 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:03,440 Yeah, that's true. 217 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:03,840 Yeah. 218 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,120 George Knapp, George Norrie. 219 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:05,680 Yeah. 220 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:07,920 Although I don't know if many people outside of the UFO community 221 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:08,880 yet know who George Norrie is. 222 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Anyhow, let's stop speculating on this. 223 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,920 Let's learn about Richie. 224 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,960 George Norrie, he's more like known than I would say Richard C. Hoagland. 225 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:17,120 Yeah. 226 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,200 We're going to get into it. 227 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:19,760 We're going to get into it. 228 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Yeah. 229 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:20,320 Okay. 230 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:20,800 Okay. 231 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:21,760 Let's just start. 232 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:21,920 Yeah. 233 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:22,640 This is coming up. 234 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,000 So he's been on many different shows. 235 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,960 He gives his bio out and it almost seems like he sends it out 236 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,040 as this is what you're supposed to read as my bio 237 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,200 to different hosts that he gets interviewed by. 238 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,320 So I just found one. 239 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,120 I want to go over it from a podcast that I find very odd 240 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:37,920 that he would show up on. 241 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,200 It's called Speaking of Young. 242 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,200 It's a Carl Young podcast. 243 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,680 Coming up again for some reason on this show. 244 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:44,160 Hold on. 245 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:44,800 Wait, what? 246 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,560 Like the psychiatry guy. 247 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:46,960 Yeah. 248 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:47,200 Yeah. 249 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,000 Interesting. 250 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,640 And this guy has nothing to do with psychology. 251 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,400 So I don't understand why he's here, 252 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:55,920 but let's go over his biography. 253 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,560 Richard C. Hoagland is a science writer and consultant 254 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:00,880 in the field of astronomy, planetarium curating, 255 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,480 and space program education. 256 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,640 In 1965, at the age of 19, 257 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,360 he became a curator of the Springfield Science Museum 258 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:08,800 in Springfield, Massachusetts. 259 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,840 The following year, he served as NBC television consultant 260 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,640 for the historic soft landing of a U.S. spacecraft 261 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,200 on the moon and appeared on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. 262 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,440 During the Apollo 8 lunar orbital mission on Christmas of 1968, 263 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,680 he was asked to become a consultant to CBS News 264 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,600 and served for many years as science advisor 265 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,720 to Walter Cronkite. 266 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,800 Together with Carl Sagan, Mr. Hoagland 267 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,200 co-created the, quote, pioneer plaque 268 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,320 and predicted life on Europa in its brown bacon paper, 269 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,520 The Europa Proposal, 270 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,640 published 37 years before NASA's announcement of water 271 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:39,760 being found on the planet. 272 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,680 He served for 10 years as a consultant 273 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,000 for the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center 274 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,000 contributing documentation on the orbiting 275 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,920 astronomical observatory project. 276 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,160 For the last several decades, 277 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,400 he has led an outside scientific team 278 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,560 in a critically acclaimed independent analysis 279 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,560 of possible intelligently designed artifacts 280 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,400 on the Viking images of Mars. 281 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,720 In 1993, he was awarded the International 282 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,680 Anxtra Medal for Excellence in Science for his research. 283 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,440 Mr. Hoagland appeared regularly 284 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,920 as the science advisor on coast to coast AM 285 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,080 with Art Bell and later with George Norrie 286 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:11,680 and produced the radio program, 287 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:14,240 The Night of the Encounter on WTIC AM 288 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,360 at Hartford, Connecticut, 289 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 which covered the July 14th, 1965, 290 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,400 Mariner 4 fly by of the planet Mars. 291 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,880 He is the author of Monuments of Mars, 292 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,160 A City on the Edge of Forever, 293 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,320 published in 1987 and co-author 294 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,960 with Mike Barra of Dark Mission, 295 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,480 The Secret History of NASA, 296 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,360 which reached the New York Times bestsellers list in 2007. 297 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Currently, he serves as principal investigator 298 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,320 of the Enterprise mission, 299 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,760 which he founded in 1992 300 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,000 and is the creator and host of the late night 301 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,480 weekend radio show, The Other Side of Midnight, 302 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,280 airing Saturday and Sunday nights at midnight 303 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,240 Eastern time. 304 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,840 And he still is doing that. 305 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,200 It'll come up in a bit. 306 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,400 That's quite a lot of fairly impressive things. 307 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,600 It is actually, before, good, I guess. 308 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,320 Yeah. 309 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,720 And his coast to coast one's really short too, 310 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,240 so I thought I'd just do it really quick. 311 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,680 Richard Hoagland is a former space science museum curator, 312 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,200 a former NASA consultant, 313 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,120 and during the historic Apollo missions to the moon 314 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,960 was science advisor for Walter Cronkite. 315 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,640 And CBS News, for over 20 years, 316 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,720 Hoagland has been leading an outside scientific team 317 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,120 in a critically acclaimed independent analysis 318 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,000 of possible intelligently designed artifacts on Mars. 319 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 Richard and his team's investigations 320 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,920 have been quietly extended to include 321 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,760 over 30 years of previously hidden data 322 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,400 from NASA, Soviet and Pentagon missions to the moon. 323 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,320 I looked back through the catalog, 324 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,400 how many times do you think he's shown up 325 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,320 on coast to coast episodes, Chelsea? 326 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:33,200 Oh, a lot. 327 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,960 He was an advisor on With Art Bell and continued, 328 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,960 I don't know how many times I've listened to him. 329 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,400 I'm going to say well over 300. 330 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:43,680 That would actually be a good guess. 331 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,440 From 2003 to 2022, 332 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,000 which is the only part of the catalog you can actually look at, 333 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,080 he was on 207 times. 334 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:50,640 Wow. 335 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,600 So it's almost like a monthly guest at least. 336 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,680 Yes, I've heard him a lot on coast. 337 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,680 And basically, if you've heard him on there, 338 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:01,600 he's the guy who found a picture of a planet 339 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:02,880 and saw something there. 340 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,480 And he's always talking about those. 341 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,000 Like that's a big thing. 342 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:06,960 He's the guy. 343 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,440 He's got pictures and he's like, 344 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,040 oh yeah, there's a skyscraper in that. 345 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,440 And you're like, yeah, that looks like a desert 346 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:14,240 on Mars to me. 347 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,640 And the first episode I could find 348 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,240 just to give you an idea tonight's guest, 349 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,280 Richard C. Hoagland has had a long standing fascination 350 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,200 with Mars, believing the planet contains evidence 351 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,480 of a previous civilization. 352 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,080 While this is not a debated topic, 353 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,000 one thing is for sure, Mars is getting ready 354 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,040 for its close up. 355 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,640 By August of this year, 356 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,600 it will be the closest it's been to Earth in 73,000 years. 357 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:34,960 And as the red planet moves in, 358 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,640 it will be growing steadily brighter 359 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:37,600 and larger in the sky. 360 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,840 That's why they brought him on because Mars was getting close. 361 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,560 So they said, hey, let's do some Mars conspiracy stuff. 362 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:43,040 Yeah. 363 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:43,440 Why not? 364 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,560 That's all well and good. 365 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,040 And those bios really built him up. 366 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,400 Let's look at the Wikipedia page 367 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,760 to give it a little balance. 368 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:50,160 Okay. 369 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,520 Wikipedia is good for that. 370 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,720 Bringing things down. 371 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Yeah. 372 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,360 I really love how it starts off. 373 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,360 First off, the first thing it says on his Wikipedia page, 374 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,320 which I don't know why I ever fucking close this stuff. 375 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:03,680 Why haven't you learned your lesson? 376 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,160 You got to leave every single tab open. 377 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:06,800 I do that. 378 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,400 And then the computer just sucks. 379 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,360 The very first sentence in his background 380 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:11,760 is, 381 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,800 Hoekland has no education beyond the high school level. 382 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:15,760 How did he get? 383 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,200 According to Hoekland's own curriculum vete, the CV, 384 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,280 he has no advanced training, schooling, 385 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,600 or degrees in any scientific field. 386 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,040 So why don't they lead with that on the bio? 387 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:29,440 Yeah. 388 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,560 It's not balanced. 389 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,280 I also love this second word here 390 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,960 because it's a very loaded word because it's a proven thing. 391 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,000 But Hoekland asserts he was a curator of astronomy 392 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,080 and space science at the Springfield Science Museum 393 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,160 from 1964 to 1967, 394 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,880 an assistant director at the Gengre Science Center 395 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,840 in West Hartford, Connecticut, 1967 to 1968, 396 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,800 and a science advisor to CBS News during the Apollo program, 397 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,640 1968 to 1971. 398 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:55,920 In July of 1968, 399 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,680 Hoekland filed a copyright registration 400 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,280 for a planetary preservation 401 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,520 and show script called the Grand Tour. 402 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,920 So now I'm wondering how he got to all this stuff 403 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,400 if he has no, his different time back then. 404 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:06,960 I know. 405 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,400 He became curator of the astronomy and space science 406 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,920 at the Springfield Science Museum at the age of 19. 407 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,920 Like it literally seems like he won the science fair that year. 408 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,520 And they said, look at the prize. 409 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,080 You get to run the science place. 410 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:22,480 Yeah. 411 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,160 And then Walter Cronkite was like, 412 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,880 we got to find somebody that has some experience 413 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,080 in space science. 414 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,000 Well, this is where I think they get the idea 415 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,400 that this guy knows what he's talking about. 416 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:35,360 It's going to come up here. 417 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,280 So a popular planetarium lecturer 418 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,720 at the Springfield Science Museum, 419 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,960 Hoekland produced a program called, quote, 420 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,680 Mars Infinity to 1965, end quote, 421 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,480 to coincide with the Mariners three and four missions. 422 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,320 He designed a room with special equipment 423 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,120 to display the relative position of the Earth, Mars, 424 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,040 and the Mariners during their trips 425 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,880 and thereafter contracted with NASA 426 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,120 to relay the picture of the Martian surface 427 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,760 on a near live feed to the general audience. 428 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,680 This is really his claim to fame 429 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,840 and how he says he worked with NASA. 430 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,920 He always brings it up that he worked with NASA 431 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,960 and he contracted with them. 432 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,160 This is really what he means. 433 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,280 Hoekland co-hosted a radio program for WTICAM 434 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,360 in Hartford, Connecticut, the Night of the Encounter, 435 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,360 along with Dick Bertel covering the July 14th, 1965, 436 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,600 Mariners four flyby of the planet Mars. 437 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,920 Local newspapers had noted the radio progress 438 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,800 to be the history's first laser audio transmission. 439 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,960 So I think part of it is just him getting in the news from that, 440 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,560 brought it to the attention of people in the news community 441 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:33,920 that this guy knows science. 442 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,840 Add to that, this guy is an absolute bullshitter, 443 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,720 world-class bullshitter, that he was able to talk 444 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,120 some people that actually think he knows what he's talking about. 445 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,600 That's how a lot of people get places, for sure. 446 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,280 See it a lot on this podcast. 447 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:48,720 I did actually find this. 448 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,640 It was from the local newspaper. 449 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,440 It's a 35 year anniversary, but it's from a local newspaper 450 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,280 that says before Mariners three and four, 451 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,920 even left the launch pad a popular planetarium lecturer 452 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,280 at the Springfield Science Museum, 453 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,200 19 year old Richard Hoekland had embarked 454 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,480 on an ambitious project called Mars, Infinity in 1965. 455 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,240 Hoekland outfitted a large room in the museum 456 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,280 with 200 seats surrounded by space murals, pictures of Mars, 457 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,680 projection screens, closed circuit TV equipment, 458 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,800 a status board and an exhibit about extraterrestrial life. 459 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,880 A ceiling model of the solar system was designed 460 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,280 to show the relative positions of the Earth, Mars, 461 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,720 and the two Mariners during their seven and a half month trip to Mars. 462 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,280 And then David Wilcock has on his website 463 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,720 a little blurb about this as well. 464 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,520 I just wanted to compare how much brown dozen goes on. 465 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,520 Okay, let's compare it. 466 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,480 Compared to like what just happened. 467 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,960 In 1965, at the age of only 19, 468 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,320 when most young people were still chasing after the opposite sex 469 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,880 and enjoying their newfound freedom to drink beer legally, 470 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,040 Hoekland became curator of the Springfield, 471 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,040 Massachusetts Museum of Science. 472 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,320 Obviously, Hoekland was a quote boy genius, 473 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,080 unquote of astronomy, to have secured a job like this at his age. 474 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,600 His creativity and desire to quote think big, unquote, 475 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,400 led him to design and produce a giant commemorative event 476 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,480 for Mariners for fly by of Mars. 477 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,880 The first time that our species had sent a probe 478 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,400 to another planet in the solar system. 479 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,800 He had an audience of 2000 people at the museum 480 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,080 and 5000 more press and scientists watching at JPL, 481 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,120 which is the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, California. 482 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,240 Clearly, this was no small feat for a man at an age 483 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,200 where most people are lacking in self-confidence or knowledge 484 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,440 of what they really plan on doing with their lives. 485 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,040 Then when Hoekland was only 20, 486 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,480 he served as a consultant to NBC regarding the first soft landing 487 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,040 of a human built probe on the lunar surface. 488 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Subsequent opportunities emerged, 489 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,360 leading to a spot on the night show, among other things. 490 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,400 This is the obvious reason why Hoekland did not pursue 491 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,720 a quote higher education, unquote. 492 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,960 He was already at the cutting edge. 493 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,560 Of course. And who would want education at that point anyway? 494 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,520 No, of course. We don't need to back up what you're thinking. 495 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,080 Shit. 496 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,320 Yeah. He needs to back up a few inches. 497 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,680 Yeah. How did he fly under our radar so that we... 498 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,920 This is right on par with David Wilcox. 499 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,600 Well, and funny enough, 500 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,920 it did come up in the David Wilcox episodes 501 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,120 because he's the one who helped him with his research originally 502 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,000 and told him to stop fucking using Russian scientists. 503 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:06,480 Yes. 504 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,320 And he also introduced him in 2004 to the coast to coast community 505 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,120 when they both did an episode together with George Norrie. 506 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:13,680 They did. 507 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,760 So this isn't the first time he's come up. 508 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,320 I also really want to make sure that we all notice this, 509 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,760 that David Wilcox said that he had an audience of 2,000 people, 510 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,160 yet the newspaper said there were only 200 seats in the entire arena. 511 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,640 And there were also 5,000 more people watching. 512 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,680 So like clearly the guy does not do research. 513 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,880 Editors note, and unfortunately something got missed in the original script, 514 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,680 the local newspaper also identifies Richard C. Hogan as a lecturer 515 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,240 and not the curator of the planetarium. 516 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,120 This may be part of the reason why Wikipedia used the term asserts in some of his legacy. 517 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,800 I actually didn't catch that. 518 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,520 And so I'm glad that you circled around back for that. 519 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:58,080 And I feel like David Wilcox probably took a little bit from that intro 520 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:04,240 because I just got a little glimpse there of some memories from the David Wilcox episode. 521 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,160 When he said, while most teenagers are out drinking or whatever it was, 522 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,640 I feel like that's something David Wilcox would say, 523 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,200 except he was the one that became an alcoholic apparently after like one day of drinking. 524 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,440 That's why he's got to really bring it up. 525 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,200 He's recovering. 526 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,240 You're always recovering. 527 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,920 You gotta milk that shit. 528 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,240 And then I gotta have, I have one more thing already. 529 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,160 This is going to be a long episode. 530 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:28,880 Yep. 531 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,680 For someone with no education to be telling David Wilcox, 532 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,040 you can't use all Russian sources. 533 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,440 Yep. That came up in the episode. 534 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:40,480 It is hilarious. 535 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,800 I just gotta say that is beautiful. 536 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,920 Okay, that's all I had to say. 537 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:48,480 Okay. 538 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,760 So in 1976, Holden continuing on with his big time celebrity status, 539 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,640 an avid Star Trek fan initiated a letter writing campaign that successfully persuaded 540 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,920 President Gerald Ford to name the first space shuttle, The Enterprise, 541 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,760 replacing the previously slated name of the prototype vehicle Constitution. 542 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,440 Hogan authored the book, The Monuments of Mars, A City on the Edge of Forever, 543 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,800 which is just plucked straight from the title of a Star Trek episode. 544 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,160 A City on the Edge of Forever is a title to a very famous Star Trek episode. 545 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,080 Guy does not have original thoughts. 546 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,280 Just throwing this out here. 547 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,680 No, I mean, he never learned how to source things or have original thoughts. 548 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:23,840 No. 549 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,280 He also co-authored the book, Dark Mission, The Secret History of NASA, 550 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,520 which was ranked 21st on the November 18th, 2007 New York Times bestseller. 551 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,000 Richard Grossinger, the founder of North Atlantic Books, 552 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000 writes that Monuments became the most successful title published by North Atlantic 553 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,760 and that at its peak, the book sold over 2,000 copies a month, 554 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,320 which is kind of big, I think, for the UFO community. 555 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,760 Grossinger also reports that Hogan wrote much of the book while in Los Angeles, 556 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:48,480 County Jail. 557 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,440 That one comes up later. 558 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,040 I found the story for that. 559 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:53,360 Okay. 560 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,120 Hogan ran the now defunct Enterprise Mission website. 561 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:58,880 It is still very much so up there. 562 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,320 If you go to enterprisemission.com, you can take a look at all the 90s glory that is 563 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,120 every single one of these guys' websites. 564 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:08,960 How come these never come down? 565 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,400 They still pay for them, apparently. 566 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,680 I'm trying to look at it. 567 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,600 EnterpriseMission.com. 568 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,600 Sorry, EnterpriseMissions.com. 569 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,560 EnterpriseMission.com. 570 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:21,360 Oh, here we go. 571 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:22,000 Here we go. 572 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,080 This looks like every other type of guy website I've been to. 573 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,200 Yeah, you have the very 90s star background. 574 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,560 And it's just banners. 575 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,760 I also really like if you just go to the third banner, 576 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,120 that is actually the logo that he uses for his podcast, 577 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,400 other side of midnight. 578 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,480 If you'll notice, he always keeps the NASA logo close as if there's some sort of 579 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,920 connection between him and NASA to give him some sort of power. 580 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,920 He also has the Egyptian stuff there, 581 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,400 which he brings in as ancient alien stuff. 582 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,800 It might come up later on if we have time or not. 583 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,000 That inclusion. 584 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,640 But did the Chinese actually discover on the moon? 585 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,360 Now I want to know. 586 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,920 It's bait. 587 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,440 Okay, continue. 588 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,440 Hogan ran the now defunct EnterpriseMissions website, 589 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,440 which he described as quote an independent NASA watchdog and research group. 590 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,040 The EnterpriseMission, attempting to figure out how much of what NASA has found in the 591 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,120 solar system over the past few years, has actually been silently filed out of sight 592 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,720 and classified material and therefore totally unknown to the American people. 593 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,360 Hogan appeared regularly as the science advisor for Coast to Coast, 594 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:36,320 a rate night radio talk show until being replaced by Robert Zimmerman in July of 2015. 595 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,680 And of course, that's not Bob Dylan. 596 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,960 That's a different Robert Zimmerman. 597 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,000 I was just going to say. 598 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:40,800 Hey, yeah. 599 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,200 And plus I've never even heard of that guy other than Bob Dylan. 600 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,800 No, I remember hearing his name on Coast to Coast and I'm like, wait, you mean Bob Dylan? 601 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,560 And that's what I would connect. 602 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,680 You could actually have to understand him instead of a raspy ass voice. 603 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,560 So it wasn't. 604 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080 And it didn't end every single sentence with an inflection tone up. 605 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,880 While Hogan makes frequent reference to his receipt of the International 606 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,680 Anxtrum Medal for Excellence in Science in August of 1993, the organization that awarded 607 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,960 the medal of the Anxtrum Foundation, Aktee Bolig, founded by Lars Jonas Anxtrum, was not 608 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:23,040 authorized by the university or the Royal Swedish Academy of Science to make use of the academy 609 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,760 and her Jonas Anxtrum Memorial Medal. 610 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,640 And the academy has long authorized only Uppsala University to use their medal for the 611 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,480 Anxtrum Prize awarded yearly by Uppsala professor to physics students. 612 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,040 Mr. Anxtrum stated in May 2000 that although his award to Hogan was a mistake, he acted 613 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,960 in good faith and with good intentions. 614 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:42,640 That's good. 615 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,040 It's usually included in his bio that he won the Anxtrum Medal when it was accidentally awarded. 616 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,920 And by accidentally, the wrong Anxtrum group awarded it. 617 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,400 That's the only time they've ever actually awarded it. 618 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,720 And the guy says in hindsight, he kind of lied about the things that we got awarded for it. 619 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,880 So that in a nutshell is the life and time of Richard C. Hogan, Richie C. 620 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Let's talk about some of the claims that he has made. 621 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:14,000 First off, he claims that he was the original person that hypothesized that there is a water 622 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:20,000 ocean on Europa, a moon of Jupiter, and that there is likely going to be life in it. 623 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,400 He says he wrote a paper in 1980 that outlines this and he was the first person to write about this. 624 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,920 I found that he was the first person to write about this. 625 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,840 I found this guy I love. 626 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,520 He is a math professor. 627 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,200 His name is Ralph Greenberg. 628 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,880 And he just listened to Richard on Coast one time. 629 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,240 And he's like, this guy's full of shit. 630 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480 I need to actually look into some of his claims. 631 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:46,400 And like his entire hobby after this is talking to our bell about how much full of shit Richard has. 632 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,320 So let's go through this story. 633 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,280 This comes right from Ralph Greenberg's blog. 634 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,920 I guess they were blogs back in the day. 635 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:02,000 It's just a green screen and that it's from washington.edu. 636 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,440 So it's his blog and it's it's cited nicely. 637 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,400 So there's stuff in there. 638 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,600 Oh good, because he has more than a high school education. 639 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:10,320 Yeah. 640 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,600 Okay. 641 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,160 So it was during the summer of 1996 that I first listened to the late night radio show 642 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,920 Coast to Coast hosted by Art Bell. 643 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,600 I was intrigued by the show, but also quite bothered by certain aspects of it. 644 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:27,040 I saw great potential in a show like Coast to Coast and we'll say more about that on another page, 645 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,640 reflection on the Art Bell show. 646 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:29,840 But we're not going to talk about that. 647 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,880 We're going to talk about the rest. 648 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,200 That was not. 649 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,240 I had never heard of Richard Houghland before listening to that show. 650 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,120 The first topic that I heard him discuss was his theory that ancient artificial structures exist on the moon. 651 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:43,520 The first time that I heard Houghland discuss Europa was one night in July of 1996. 652 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,880 As a recall, I had only recently learned the theory that Europa might have a liquid water ocean 653 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,280 and that life might exist in such an ocean. 654 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,760 The Galileo spacecraft had just recently started to send back photographs from Jupiter's system, 655 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,160 which generated a lot of excitement and discussion. 656 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,800 That night, Richard Houghland mentioned in his article, 657 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,280 the Europa enigma, which he wrote for the January 1980 issue of Star and Sky magazine. 658 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,160 Houghland also made an accusation that a scientist named Stephen Squeers and NASA 659 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,080 were trying to steal credit from him. 660 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,320 Houghland's assertion was that NASA might have discovered that life really does exist on Europa 661 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,040 and wanted to make sure that they would get credit rather than him. 662 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,760 The assertion was based on a news report about a lecture that Squeers had given in England. 663 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,240 At the same time, Houghland posted a press release on the Enterprise mission website, 664 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,560 making the same accusations against Squeers. 665 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,320 It was also the subject of an interview by Michael Corbin. 666 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,360 My reaction was that it was extremely irresponsible for someone to make such an accusation 667 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,400 on a nationwide radio show based merely on a news report. 668 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,400 As I learned only recently, neither Houghland nor any of his associates even bothered to 669 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,320 contact the author of the news report to determine whether the accusation was accurate. 670 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,880 They also did not bother to contact Squeers himself. 671 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,840 In fact, the accusation turned out to be entirely unjustified. 672 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,640 I also did not realize the hypocrisy implicit in Houghland's accusations against Squeers at that 673 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,560 time. That only became apparent to me some six or seven months later. 674 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,800 Europa was in the news rather frequently between 1996 and 1997. 675 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,120 During Houghland's rather frequent guest appearances, 676 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:16,320 Art Bell would often mention some recent news item about Europa, and either he or Houghland would 677 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,560 bring up the subject of Houghland's 1980 article, always giving the impression that it was he who 678 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,600 first proposed both the idea that Europa might have had an ocean of liquid water and the idea that 679 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,440 life might develop in that environment. 680 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,480 Art Bell would then usually add some sarcastic comments about the 681 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,200 scientific community not giving Houghland his due credit. 682 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,640 I also recall hearing callers to Art Bell's show mention that Houghland has been far in advance of 683 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,160 the scientific community in proposing the possibility of an ocean on Europa, 684 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960 and therefore his current ideas should be taken seriously. 685 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,280 This happened just two or three times, but I gradually became aware during the following 686 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,600 two years that it was rather widely believed that Houghland really was the first proposed 687 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,720 that important idea. 688 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,480 And just so we're on the same page, this article that they're quoting in Star and Sky Magazine, 689 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,600 Star and Sky Magazine is an amateur astronomy magazine. 690 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,680 So it's not a scientific paper than you wrote. 691 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,160 It's just an article that he wrote for amateurs. 692 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,640 Yeah, and it seems okay for Richard Houghland to take it from an amateur. 693 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,520 No, he wrote it. 694 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,560 He wrote it as an amateur. 695 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,040 Oh, he wrote it in an amateur magazine. 696 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,280 Yes. 697 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,840 He's never written a scientific paper nor had anything peer reviewed. 698 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,880 No, I wouldn't think so, since he has graduated. 699 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,240 No credentials to do so. 700 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,960 Yeah. 701 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,200 Early in 1997, I came across an article in Science News which mentioned the idea of an 702 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,080 ocean under the ice of Europa was first proposed by John S. Lewis in 1971. 703 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,080 This was inconsistent with the impression that Richard Houghland's statements gave. 704 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,840 It was my first clue that the version of history we were hearing on the art bell show 705 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:42,960 might not be right. 706 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,640 It was not Houghland's idea at all. 707 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,160 It comes straight out of the paper, Is There Liquid Water on Europa? 708 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,680 by Cassin Peel and Reynolds, written in June of 1979. 709 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,600 Strangely enough, not that much earlier than when he posts his article the year after. 710 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,080 This poor guy, like he comes in, he's like, coast to coast is going to be awesome. 711 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:02,400 Yes, it's fine. 712 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,000 He's obviously not heard some of the other stuff that's on there, but he's. 713 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,640 No, this is actually, I like this part because he's like, oh no, this is an error that seems 714 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,560 to be there and they don't seem to know it. 715 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,400 Like, listen, as far as I know, Richard Houghland has never responded to the substance of my 716 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,760 criticism over the issue. 717 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,160 He's not even corrected or modified the misleading statements which is quoted above, 718 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,520 taken from his website. 719 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,160 And sorry, I edited it out a little bit, but he specifically put articles on his webpage 720 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,480 that say he was the one who discovered this. 721 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,840 It's still there introducing his article, the Europa Enigma. 722 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,160 However, in May of 1998, I succeeded in putting some heat on Houghland by challenging him 723 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,160 to a debate concerning several issues. 724 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,160 In my letter to Houghland, which I also sent to Art Bell and some of his regular guests, 725 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,320 I wrote concerning the Europa issue. 726 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,160 Well, you have often stated that you were the first person to propose the idea that 727 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,360 Europa might have an ocean under a crust of ice and that life might evolve in such an environment. 728 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,160 My contention is that the actual history of those ideas does not support your claim of priority. 729 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:05,440 To my surprise, and without telling me in advance, Art Bell confronted me with my challenge on the air. 730 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,320 That occurred on May 26th, two weeks after I sent that letter. 731 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,640 Parentheses, ifacts, are a copy of that letter again on that day, knowing that Houghland was 732 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,320 scheduled to be his guest that night. 733 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,560 Houghland refused to debate and was extremely insulting when he talked about me. 734 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,280 He did allude to Europa and said that Terence Dickinson and Arthur C. Clark gave him credit for 735 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,160 the idea that my challenge on the issue was political. 736 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,200 That was all. 737 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,280 Poor guy. Yeah, like he did all this research. 738 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:37,040 It's out of his field and he looked it up and he's like, hey, yeah, he's just trying to correct the 739 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,760 error and he's like, I'll debate him on this. Yeah, he just wants the best. 740 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,160 So that's his assertions that he's the one who proposed that there's water, a liquid ocean on 741 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:53,200 Europa. Next up, his biggest thing that most people know him for is his monuments of Mars. 742 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,160 In 1972, the Viking 1 space probe did a flyby of Mars, which was pretty monumental. 743 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,360 It was the first close-up view of the red planet we ever had. 744 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,240 And you know what Richie C. thought was so great about it? 745 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,640 The fact that it found evidence of life on Mars, but not just any life on Mars, 746 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,320 but advanced civilizations. 747 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,160 Houghland claims, quote, the face on Mars, unquote, is part of a city built on Sidonia, 748 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,960 Planitia, consisting of very large pyramids and mounds arranged in geometric patterns. 749 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,800 To Houghland, this is evidence of an advanced civilization that might have existed on Mars. 750 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,600 The area on Mars known as Sidonia, he sees a lot of things that he says, oh, this is definitely 751 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,920 an old city. There's the face on Mars, which most scientists and NASA chalk up to what's 752 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:41,760 called face paranoia. It's where we see faces where they really are just naturally occurring 753 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,160 phenomenons. Like there's so many places around the world that are known as like giant head. 754 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,440 Yeah. Down with pins. Hell, there's one in South Dakota that people purport to see dead 755 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,000 presidents on a mountain all the time. Yeah. People travel on mass to go see that. 756 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,520 Like crazy. Yeah. Just naturally occurring. So crazy. Yeah. And again, our buddy here, 757 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,520 Ralph Greenberg, actually did a great breakdown of why all of his claims are stupid on this. 758 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,920 Mostly because what he's saying is look at the alignment of all these buildings that I found. 759 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,000 These angles line up to very specific numbers that are very important. And therefore it needs 760 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,920 to be constructed by somebody who knew about these. But unfortunately, we're not going to go to my 761 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,560 buddy Ralph Greenberg this time around. We're going to go to this blog I found called Bad Astronomy. 762 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,280 It is old as hell. Like it's this is all written in 2004 as well. But this is what they say. 763 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,920 Well, yeah, that's true. It can drink though in most of Canada. 764 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:44,080 Hogan took an image of the Sedonia region, found his objects, then connected them with lines. He 765 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,400 then measured the angles between the objects and manipulated them mathematically. He took ratios 766 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,640 dividing one angle by another and performed trigonometry taking the sine cosine and tangents 767 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,360 of the angles and then went about seeing if those numbers had any special significance. 768 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:03,280 And he found that they do indeed appear to relate to one another. What the fuck is he doing? 769 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,680 But this isn't how he explains it on coast to coast. He says it. These numbers make sense. 770 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,160 They show that somebody meant to put these here, like look at these angles and what they add up to. 771 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,960 But this is how we're going to explain why this is stupid. He found that these numbers 772 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:20,960 corresponded to such mathematical constants as e, the base number in the natural logarithm system 773 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:27,520 equal to about 2.718. He found pi 3.1415 and multiple of simple square roots, like the square 774 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,680 root of two, all the radical square root of three. Amazingly, he seemed to have found an intricate 775 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,000 relationship between the placements of these objects on Mars. If true, this could not have 776 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,400 happened naturally. There must have been some intelligence behind the quote city. Hoagland 777 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,760 claims that over time he became so convinced that the relationship in the city, he calls the city 778 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,640 on the edge of forever, cannot be coincidence. Hoagland claims that over time he became so convinced 779 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,640 that the relationships in the city cannot be coincidence and represent an artificial structure 780 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,960 that he all but abandoned his claim about the face as he says himself. But simultaneously, 781 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,600 we do not want anyone to lose sight of the fact that the face at a more fundamental level has 782 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,160 almost become a secondary part of his debate for many years. Hoagland's geometric relationship 783 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,160 model for Sidonia, with its potential for quantification and testing of the foundation of 784 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:18,320 the quote intelligent hypothesis itself in the form of specific predictions made by the hyper 785 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,880 dimensional physics theory derived from the alignment model, has already stepped to the 786 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,160 forefront of the debate over the artificiality of Sidonia of late. Because of the quantifiable 787 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,440 basis for the model, the face itself has been relegated to a secondary confirmatory status, 788 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,920 rather than the linchpin around which all decisions vis-a-vis the artificiality of 789 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:43,520 Sidonia must be anchored. So if the math he did turns out to be wrong, then his claims, 790 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,960 really all of them are wrong too. Well, I mean, what are the odds that his math is right? So yeah, 791 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,480 and it's a very famous photo. If you just type in face of Mars and Google, you'll see it. First 792 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,520 glance, this is in Sidonia, it looks like a face because we see faces. That's just how it works. 793 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,400 You can find secondary photos of it, looks like a hell. His mathematical analysis is so full of 794 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,400 holes, flaws in this direction, that it's completely worthless. This not only destroys his 795 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,640 claim about the city, but by his own words, everything else he says to. How specifically 796 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,040 is he wrong? First off, his claim of measurement accuracy are too high. Given that he measured 797 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,800 these angles off of photographs, throw off his amazing relationships, he claims one angle is 798 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,600 exactly 120 degrees. But if his ruler is off by a tiny bit, then his angle might be 119 or 121 799 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:35,120 degrees. This is in turn completely negating all the fancy math he then does before he even 800 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,880 turns on his calculator. Second, by picking and choosing which features to use, he uses a hill 801 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,840 in one spot, but not another very similar hill next to it. The ups the odds of finding what he 802 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,600 wants. A suspicious person might assume he initially drew lines from all the available features and 803 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,200 only kept the ones he liked. That makes a mathematical relationship seem a lot stronger than it really is. 804 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,400 Third, even if he didn't pick and choose, the odds of finding relationships are extremely high, 805 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,600 even with random numbers. For one thing, he had lots of measurements to choose from. He only shows 806 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:13,120 a few connections in his drawing, but in fact, given that he shows 17 points, there are literally 807 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,000 thousands of angles between all of them he could have used. Don't believe me? Draw three points on 808 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,120 a piece of paper, then connect them. You have made a triangle. Of course, there are three angles. 809 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,160 Now draw four points randomly on a piece of paper. Don't make a square. Connect every point to each 810 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,040 other. You'll have six lines, the outside of the four, and two connecting opposite vertices. 811 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:38,240 How many angles do you have? I count 16 when I do this, but some of these angles are equal due 812 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:43,520 to geometry, so really there are 14. And that's with four points. The numbers increase very rapidly. 813 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,240 By the time you draw 17 points as Hoagland did, the number of angles to choose from is staggering. 814 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:52,960 Some of them are bound to be close to special values simply by chance. But even that isn't 815 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:59,120 everything. Fourth, by taking ratios of these angles and using trig functions, he is forcing 816 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:05,440 lots of his measured numbers to be in small ranges of values mostly between zero and pi, 817 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:12,800 which is why all those numbers are important and below 3.14. This is good stuff. Outside of that, 818 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,080 he's always going on coast coasts or other shows with a picture that the Mars rovers have taken 819 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,160 and saying he sees something in there that's definitely man-made. If you look at the photos, 820 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,800 barely ever do you see anything that you'd say, okay, I see what he's looking at. And then the 821 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,760 rest of it, you can just chalk up to mere coincidence because he likes to say nature 822 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,320 doesn't make right angles. Nature makes right angles all the time. And I think we're going to 823 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,720 have to cut this here as this is going to be a two-parter episode just due to how long this 824 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,680 episode turns out it's going to be. So we're going to end this here. Stay tuned for the stunning 825 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,880 conclusion of the Richard C. Hoagland episode. There's a few moments that you're not going to 826 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,040 want to miss in the next one. As for now, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. We are Journey 827 00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:01,360 to the Fringe. Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. Hey. Thank you for listening 828 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,920 to Journey to the Fringe. If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, 829 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,600 or follow depending on what venue you are listening to us through. Also, please, if possible, 830 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:19,840 leave a five-star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. Should you wish to interact with 831 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,680 us, please check us out on your social media of choice. I bet you we are there. And if you really 832 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,320 want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and 833 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:36,720 terrible, either way, please send us an email at Journey to the Fringe at gmail.com. For now, 834 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:38,720 I'll see you in the next episode.