You did it! Now I have a snack in my mouth.
Okay, I found this article that I found very interesting, labeled,
Polish Institute says that cats are an alien invasive species.
And I was intrigued to learn more.
A respected Polish scientific institute has classified common house cats as an invasive alien species.
The institute did this because of the damage cats cause to birds and other wildlife.
This respected Polish scientific institute doesn't seem to actually be named in this article.
And then it goes on to say some cat lovers have reacted emotionally to this decision.
Yeah, but what are you gonna do? It's a respected Polish scientific center.
Maybe that's the name of the Polish scientific institute.
I mean, if I was gonna name a scientific society, I would name it respected right off the bat.
Yeah, they're respected so-and-so journey to the fringe institute of scientific technology.
Journey to the fringe owned by respected corporation.
Yeah, cat people are having strong emotional reactions to this.
And the strong reactions have put the main scientist behind the decision on the defensive.
That's probably why they didn't name it.
And his name is Wojciech? Wojciech? Let's just move on.
Solars is a biologist to the state-run Polish Academy of Sciences.
Already good. Oh, that's what it's named. Polish Academy of Sciences, right?
Oh, that's respected. Yeah.
Yeah. So the Academy's Institute of Nature Conservation runs a database of invasive alien
species. And somehow cats made their way onto this list.
It was surprised by the public reaction following the addition of Feliz Catist in the database.
That's what they go by. That's their long name.
Yeah. Feliz Catist.
Okay. The database already had 1,786 other species listed with no objections,
Solars told the Associated Press on Tuesday. The public anger, he said, may have come from the
media. Some media reports may have misinformed people that the Institute is calling for wild
and domestic cats to be killed. Oh my gosh. Some would say they're going too far. Others,
not far enough. The public certainly jumped to wild accusations here. The criteria for including
the cat among alien invasive species are a hundred percent met by the cat, he said. What?
Oh, hold on. I missed a part. Solars described the growing scientific belief that domestic cats harm
biodiversity, which they do, but that's on the chain of command, isn't it? Like everything has
the circle of life. Well, yeah, but they're introducing something into the ecosystem.
Like cats aren't naturally occurring in the domesticated cats aren't. Yeah.
So this is because of the number of birds and mammals that cats hunt and kill. The criteria,
here we go. The criteria for including the cat among alien invasive species are a hundred percent
met by the cat. That's it, right? Yeah, we can add it there. I don't end it there. I don't really
think there's much more to add. Cat people are enraged. This guy is like, yeah, they're an alien
invasive species. And there we have it. And now with that, we can start the episode.
From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a Journey to the Fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the inevitable place that the consequences of your
past actions have led you. We are your inevitable hosts to this thing that you couldn't avoid due
to the actions you've taken in the past, Chelsea and Taylor. Here today, this is going to be a two
part episode, at least how we've had it planned. Not me personally, but between the two of us.
About a fringe topic indeed. And that is remote viewing. It's going to be a little odd how we're
breaking it up, but what's going to happen here is first off, we're going to tell you what the
hell remote viewing is. And then from there, I am going to go over the history of remote viewing
within the government of the United States. It seemed logical at the time we were breaking it up.
It did. But now describing it to you all, it seems strange. It does seem strange, doesn't it? But
we're here now and we cannot avoid this. From there, Chelsea is then going to go over
notable characters within the remote viewing community. Yes, I'll do that. You know, time
permitting, we might also get a snack break in there. Oh, I'm already snacking. Some of us will
have to wait until the snack break. Some of us will have already done it. It's quite a silent
snack though. It's Swedish fish. You're going wrong with your snack breaks. Another classic,
but not as crunchy. You do like to hear it on a podcast, don't you? Now, before we get this
episode started, what I would like you all to do, at least those of you who are not driving things.
Oh, I like this. Those of you who can't afford to close your eyes, please don't close your eyes. The
rest of you, please close your eyes. Just relax that mind. Go to a happy place. And I'm going to
tell you something here. 48 degrees, 52.6 minutes south, 123 degrees, 23.6 minutes west. And I want
you to tell me what you're picturing. What do those coordinates elicit inside you? I feel like
it's a river with a tree. Okay. Now we are experiencing right now. You can open your eyes
back up. If not, you're more than welcome to keep experiencing this podcast in the I closed format.
This podcast, in fact, we prefer it that way as that is the intended viewership that we are going
after with this podcast. It's a little late in the podcast series to bring that up. Yeah. Sorry,
guys. If you can go back now. Also snack the entire time. Unless we say don't, then you should not be
snacking. Definitely don't. We've never said that once. But what you just experienced there is just
just a small taste of what is the life of a remote viewer. Hold on. Do we get to know where those
coordinates were? Was I right? No, you know what? I'm actually going to wait until the next episode
to tell you where those coordinates are. Oh, so that hopefully we can get some responses from our
viewers to let us know what they think. Please don't just Google it. Let us know what you think.
I never would have thought of that. But now that you said it, I also don't know what minutes means
in the coordinates. Okay. So what is remote viewing? Well, it's the practice of seeking
impressions about a distant or unseen subject. Reportedly sensing with the mind. Typically,
a remote viewer is expected to give information about an object, event, person or location that
is hidden from physical view and separated at least by some distance from the viewer themselves.
Some people say that this is really there's no difference between astral projecting and remote
viewing. In my mind, remote viewing is the result. Astral projecting can be one of the actions that
you can take to actually remote view. However, it is not interchangeable in and of itself. And in
fact, I will bring it up at the end, at least something that makes me think it's different.
Another way to remote view that I have seen is retro causal effects with time. And I will talk
about that at the end as well. But remote viewing is simply viewing a place, however you got there,
there are multiple ways, but generally you are not physically going to that location,
hence the remote part of it. Wouldn't that make it the astral projecting part of it though? You're
like, no, I don't know that confused me. Okay, continue. Astral projecting is only one way of
remote viewing. There are multiple ways to see a location without being there. When astral projection
being like someone else was astral projecting, they could see you there. That's an entirely
different thing to go over. That is an astral projection episode. We're not doing astral
projection episode. Okay. We're doing a remote viewing episode. Okay. Okay. Let's go back.
Remote viewing, it's a very niche, I almost want to say psychic affair that has always been obscure.
It's only been really looked at starting in the 1930s and really starting to get prominence
throughout the world in the 1960s. That is actually where our story starts. So the catalyst is really
for at least US interest in this topic, learning that the USSR apparently had interest in it.
Because if you ever wanted the US to actually do anything, all you had to literally say was,
well, the USSR is doing it. They're doing all of it. Yeah. And in this case, that's what happened.
There were rumors of a number of Soviet scientists studying various aspects of paranormal phenomena,
including telekinesis, extra sensory perception, or EST, parapsychology, and various other psychic
phenomena. These scientists had worked with military and intelligence agencies in their
country to explore methods for deployment of paranormal abilities for defense and intelligence
collection purposes. Among the most intriguing stories included in what the US was hearing about
the USSR was an account of an experiment involving rabbits. Electrodes were inserted into the brain
of a mother rabbit and baby rabbits without implanted electrodes were placed on a submarine
that was taken out to sea and submerged. A baby rabbit would then be killed. And as the scientists
recorded, the brain of the mother many miles away on shore reacted at the moment of death,
setting aside all questions of animal cruelty and experimental ethics. This was interpreted to show
that ESP existed and served to connect minds. Now there are many different rumors activities
that the USSR was working on. This is one of the stories. Another one is that they had telekinetic
individuals who were able to stop the heart of a frog. I found one literally in an unclassified
document from the CIA database. Abstract, dear editors, I am a construction engineer,
Rafaelian, and I'm writing you from the sunny state of Georgia. I lived in Tlisty and have now
been listening for several years to various oral sources of stories about a certain Krivletov.
Who somehow is successfully healing patients by laying on of hands. I also heard that his
self-educated magician was investigated by various specialists, in particular the inventors,
Mr. And Mrs. Curliam, and that somehow the secret of his miracle working hands has been divine.
Is this true or not? Couldn't tell you of this healer in greater detail. Like I just love like
this, this weird letter that somebody wrote to the CIA ended up top secret and got released in
2005. I love it. But like this is the world that is inhabited in the late 60s, early 70s. All these
strange stories coming out of the USSR and the US government has to take them serious. Oh, anything
that had anything to do, even things that were to do with the USSR at that time were thought to be,
it could be. So it was very hush-hush about anything going on. Like I said, if you want to
grant money for anything, all you had to say was like, well, the USSR is doing it. They're doing it
hard. Like millions. Or either that or it's to fight back against the USSR. So I'm going to need
this grant money. You know, not giving me this is just welcoming communism into this country, right?
And then, yeah, Ike Eisenhower foaming at the mouth just hands you as much money as he possibly
can while invading Guatemala. The United States intelligence sources believe that the Soviet
Union was spending upwards of 60 million rubles annually on psychotronic research. You know what?
I didn't actually check. Let's check really quick how much that would be. Rubles. Sounds high tech.
I would be interested to know what kind of research the Soviets were doing with this.
It's probably intense. To be honest, I've never been able to find anything from them. Oh, no,
they're probably much better. Which is funny. Yeah. Keeping things secret than the US,
declassifying letters from construction workers. Oh, OK. One US dollar equals four old rubles.
So that means they were spending. I assume we're talking old rubles, not new rubles. If that's
different, then I am sorry. What is the timeline for old rubles? But we're talking about 15 million
US dollars in 1970 monies annually. So old means 1970. On psychotronics. Well, no, no, we're talking
about 1970 would be today and they're spending old rubles on it. But I don't know what that means
per se to the 1970s people. OK. In response to claims that the Soviet program had produced results,
the CIA initiated funding for a program known as SCN8. Scan by coordinate is what that stands for.
And in the same year, remote viewing research began in 1972 at what's known as the Stanford
Research Institute. This place comes up a lot. It's shortened to SRI. It is not a government
office. It is a university at Stanford. And this is where the original remote viewing research
starts in the US. This is Menlo Park, California. And this research is being done by physicists
Russell Targ and Harold Putoff. And they began testing psychics for SRI in 1972. There were two
people that they started testing, not off the bat, but the first person they start testing for
psychic phenomena is a man by the name of Yuri Geller. He's an Israeli nationalist by birth,
23 years old in 1972. And he's a stage magician. Like, let's just get that out of the way. The guy
is a stage magician. He's well known for bending spoons on stage, stopping watches, and then also
every now and then making weird claims on stage that every now and then come true. The big rumored
one that there's not a lot of stative things to back it up is that he claimed that the he felt
terrible that day because he felt like the ruler of Egypt was either dead or about to die. And
later that day, the ruler of Egypt dies. Oh my gosh, that's pretty accurate. But if you say enough
bold claims every day, one of them is bound to come true. Exactly. He could have said that every
day of his life. Yeah, man, I'm just not feeling good. Egyptian ruler is about to die. Well,
especially I don't know who the Egyptian ruler was at the time. He could have been like a 90 year
old man, to be fair. Yeah, from here on out, I'm going to say I'm not feeling well today. The queen
of England is about to die. Yeah, is either dead or about to die. I'm going to be right one day.
Man, are you going to feel bad when you're right though?
You're not, you don't want that kind of power. That's true. So Yuri Geller gets involved and
they start doing some tests on this man to really show that he has some sort of psychic power.
Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff think that they're successful tests and their apparent success
results garnered interest within the US government by a man with the US Department of Defense,
Ray Hyman. He's a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. He was asked by the Air Force
psychologist, Lieutenant Colonel Austin W. Kibler, then director of behavioral research for ARPA,
to go to SRI and investigate what they were doing and if there's any credence to it. He was told to
specifically evaluate Yuri Geller and Hyman's report to the government was that Geller was a
complete fraud, like complete and utter fraud. And as a consequence, Targ and Puthoff lost their
government contract to work further with him. The result was a publicity tour for Geller,
Targ and Puthoff to seek private funding for further research work on Geller. They start
their initial testing on this psychic. A government official comes and actually looks at the tests
they're doing. They're like, these are absolute shit tests. Their response are, well, we're going
to get different people to pay us now. Oh man. When Geller's supposed abilities were tested by
the US Central Intelligence Agency in 1973, the experiments concluded that Geller had demonstrated
his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner. On that funding tour,
they went to the CIA. CIA was convinced, you know what, Yuri's got some sort of paranormal ability.
I think we want to work with you guys. So a study was commissioned by the United States
Defense Intelligence Agency, a Stargate project and conducted during August, 1973 at Stanford
researchers. Geller was isolated and asked to reproduce simple drawings prepared in another
room, writing about the same study in 1974, an article published in the journal Nature. They
concluded that he had performed successfully enough to warrant further serious studies.
So basically what they would do, Yuri Geller would have to go into an isolated room.
They would have a participant in the study go into another room, pick a word from the dictionary,
and they would draw that picture. And then they would ask Yuri Geller to draw what he thinks
they were drawing. There was at least enough consistency in what they were seeing that they
said these were successful tests. He was drawing things that were similar to what the other person
was seeing. So that he had some way of either communicating with people through rooms or he
was able to view that other room and see what was going on in it. Party games to play, I think.
Yeah. This is the thing with a lot of these tests. I'm going to put it up front just so that you guys
all know where I'm coming from. They're never done in a way that you can fully say when a test is
successful. So like if you're asking somebody to draw just something, what would be the cutoff line
for this is a successful test or this is an unsuccessful test? I would say if it was me,
it wasn't because this was in the past before it was born. I would say if it kind of looked like
what you had drawn, kind of resembled it. Yeah. But the part I have a hard time with too, and they
never talk about this. Yuri Geller is a stage magician and I guarantee you he's a slippery
talker. So I'm feeling he has a few tricks of either getting a rapport with people so that he
either feels like he knows what they're going to be doing, like a cold reading of sorts, or two,
convincing people that he has a successful answer when it's ambiguous. Yeah. But we'll never know
the answer for sure. He's a smooth talker though, so he could have. Exactly. Everybody involved in this is a smooth
talker and... Which you would have to be to be a psychic that has no actual psychic powers.
Yeah, it's true. And then spoiler alert, there's a lot of Scientologists. Yes, I did know that.
Just to continue on with that. In the Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and
Supernatural, Putoff and Russell Targ, who studied Mr. Geller at the Stanford Research Institute,
were aware in one instance at least that they were being shown a magician's trick by Geller.
Their protocols for their serious investigation of the power claim by Geller were described by
Ray Hyman, who investigated the project on behalf of the Department of Defense's Advanced Research
Project Agency as sloppy and inadequate. Critics have pointed out that both Putoff and Targ were
already believers in paranormal powers and Geller was not adequately searched before experiments,
and psychologists C.E.M. Hansel and skeptic Paul Kurtz have noted that experiments were poorly
designed and open to trickery. So when we're talking about successful results, that was another
thing. These are critiques. There are people involved in the studies themselves though.
So this program at this point is kind of based on Uri Geller's...
It's just Uri Geller at this point. They've just gotten money to study his paranormal abilities.
Okay.
And this is coming from the CIA. And although several professional magicians have duplicated
many of Mr. Geller's feats by using sleight of hand techniques, the SRI scientists said in a
telephone interview that their current report was based on experiments in which trickery would seem
to be unlikely. The scientists said that they had consulted professional magicians in designing
their experiments to be as cheat proof as possible. Mr. Geller was sealed in a room with metal walls
capable of insulating it from external sites, sounds, and radio waves, the scientists said.
Outside that room, the researchers opened a dictionary at random, looked down the list of
entries for the first word that they could depict graphically, and then drew a picture
corresponding to the word. Mr. Geller's task was to draw a similar picture, and the researchers said
he was never told who would select the picture or how it would be done. In nine such experiments,
Mr. Geller produced seven drawings or sets of drawings. All of Mr. Geller's responses,
which were published in the Nature article alongside the researchers drawings,
showed some degree of corresponding to the target picture. Most showed remarkable similarities.
And in the two instances in which Mr. Geller did not produce a drawing, he had been fitted with
brain wave recording electrodes that he said interfered with his ability. And in a 10th
experiment, the drawings were placed in a sealed room before Mr. Geller's arrival.
Later, when asked to reproduce the drawing, he was unable to do so. In three additional
experiments, images that could be displayed by computers were stored in the machine's memory,
known only to the programmer, and Mr. Geller in the sealed room during the selection and
programming of the image produced drawings that all bore some degree of similarity.
From these experiments, among others, the scientists Russell Targ and Dr. Harold
Puthoff concluded that Mr. Geller did indeed possess telepathic ability. Publications of the
report by the British scientific magazine Nature, one of the most respected international science
journals, represents something of a first for parapsychology. Research in the field is almost
always reported only in journals that circulate within the specialty. However, the editor of Nature,
aware of the controversy that the article included in the October 18th issue might arouse,
then published an editorial explaining why they had chosen to print the article, despite the
objections of some article's referees, according to the editorial consultants, that the report was
weak in design and presentation, and that details of precautions against conscious or unconscious
fraud were uncomfortably vague. So there's controversies about the studies that are actually
going on at this time, but nonetheless, the US government sees these and they are happy with
what's going on, to the extent that by the time 1975 rolls around, Yuri Geller, who again is an
Israeli nationalist, was invited to do a classified psychokinetic test at a lab in Livermore,
California, where scientists were developing advanced nuclear warheads, laser systems,
and other emerging weapons technologies. So the fact that he's not American, and in fact,
might be working for a government with conflicting views, doesn't stop him at all from being invited
to a nuclear testing facility. They thought he had some things. Well, we learned about that back in
our nuclear episode. Yeah. He never came up in that episode though. The CIA starts getting more
people involved. A name that comes up about now, but I'm not going to talk about him yet, is a man
by the name of Ingo Swan, who goes through many of the same testings as Yuri Geller. Right now,
I do want to make a note, they're going to start recruiting many telekinetics and remote viewers
for future testing and involvement in the government very shortly. However, many of the SRI
MPAS were from the Church of Scientology, including Ingo Swan, who was an OT level seven
Scientologist. Individuals who appeared to show potential were trained and taught to use talents
of psychic warfare, most of them by Ingo Swan. And the minimum accuracy that was needed by clients
was said to be about 65% to continue on to actually become usable by the government.
Proponents claim that in the later stages of the training effort, this accuracy level was
often consistently exceeded. Seems low for a government program, but it also seems like
this is the first program of its kind. So they wouldn't know how to test it or anything like
that. And there was crit- what's the word I'm looking for? Criticizing? Criticism? Criticism
of the way they were testing it, but they weren't seeing a better way because they didn't know. Well,
yeah, it is hard to test. Am I right? That's the thing. And especially, I hear they need a minimum
accuracy of 65%. I don't know what that means, but we all get into that in a bit. Around the
mid to late 1970s, the CIA decides to shut down its ESP work and the program moves from the CIA
to the US Army and it moves to Fort Meade in Maryland, where it was funded by the Defense
Intelligence Agency. At this point, it becomes known as Gondola Wish and it was a 1977 Army
Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence Systems Exploitation Departments effort to evaluate
potential adversary applications of remote viewing. And building on Gondola Wish, an
operational collection project was formalized under Army Intelligence as Grill Flame in mid 1978.
It was located in buildings 2560 and 2561 at Fort Meade. Grill Flame consisted of soldiers and a few
civilians who were believed to possess varying degrees of natural psychic ability. The SRI
research program was integrated into Grill Flame in early 1979 and hundreds of remote viewing
experiments were carried out at SRI through 1986. So there is a distinct split from what was going
on beforehand to being moved into the government itself. Okay, and this is still the same program
or a different one? It's still technically the same program. The names are changing and the part
of the government's involved with is changing as well, but it's the same people involved in it.
Okay. At this point, I found somebody who was involved with it provided an idea of what their
typical day was as a remote viewer. On a typical workday, McMonagall said he reported to an old
leaky wooden barracks at Fort Meade where he went into a one-person office. He sat at a desk and a
typewriter and a coffee of muck. The CUP said this end up and had an arrow pointing the wrong way.
He was then presented with sealed envelopes, sometimes large brown ones, sometimes small
white ones, and he was asked to supply information about whatever was inside. There might be a
photograph of a person. He would be asked to describe where the person was located. That's
what they would do. They'd be handed an envelope and we either have coordinates, a picture of
someone, an idea of something, and they will be asked to describe it. There were some successes.
One of the project's big successes was the location of a La Soviet spy plane in 1976 by Rosemary Smith,
a young administrative assistant recruited by project director Dale Graff.
Quick question. Are they just being like, hey, secretary sitting right there, you don't look
busy. Do you want to come try your hand at remote viewing? See, I don't think that's how it worked.
I feel like Ingo Swann had trained her, but it is weird that they described her as an assistant.
Yeah. But maybe it's just the fact that she was a woman. Maybe she couldn't be a remote
viewer for three years. True, true. That could be very true. Yeah. Any lady was automatically
an assistant. Yeah. Now in 1981, the project was expanded to be a joint project between the
Defense Intelligence Agency and the Army. And it was a planned three year joint program between
the DIA and Army to investigate in detail certain paranormal phenomena such as remote viewing,
psychokinesis that have potential military applications. Emphasis has been on evaluating
application potential and limitations of remote viewing phenomena and to evaluate the significance
of foreign work, particularly as it may pose a threat to the US. In 1981, the US Army spent
$130,000, which moved to $140,000 in 1982. And then the DIA provided $300,000 in 1981 to be $335,000
in 1982. So it's not a lot of money, but it's being spent. And they are spending man hours on
it at least as well. They said the DIA was using one and a half man years in power on this project.
And the Army is using about a quarter of a man year. So imagine you have all these...
What is a man year?
It's basically how many hours a person works in a year. That's how many hours you're committing
to it. So if it's more than a person would work in a year, that means you're expanding one point,
whatever it would be. Okay. And that all came right from CIA documents that were released.
Like it's on the CIA website. It's crazy. Yeah. Now in 1983, the program was redesigned,
re-designated the INSCOM Center Lane Project, and Ingo Swan and Harold Putoff at SRI developed a
set of instructions, which theoretically allowed anyone to be trained to produce accurate, detailed
target data. And they use this new collection methodology against a wide range of operational
training targets. The existence of this highly classified program finally became public knowledge
in 1984 when it was reported by columnist Jack Anderson. Up until now, it's been just a secret
thing going on in the background. And now it's starting to leak out. And like these are the real
conspiracies back in the day that were very real. In late 1985, the army funding was terminated,
but the program was re-designated Sunstreak and funded by the DIA Scientific and Technical
Intelligence Directorate.
Sunstreak is what it's called now?
Yeah. Okay.
It changes names so fricking often.
Really?
In 1991, most of the contracting for the program was transferred from SRI to the Science
Applications Internal Corporation, SAIC, which is still traded on the market today.
With Edmund May controlling 70% of the contractor funds and 85% of the data,
its security was altered from Special Access Program to Limited Dissemination,
and was given its final name, Project Stargate.
In 1991?
Yeah, that's when it was finally called Stargate.
Okay. Wow. That's not recent, but recent in my mind.
Yeah, for how long it was going on. That's 20 years in.
Yeah.
In the early 1990s, the Military Intelligence Board, chaired by Defense Intelligence Agency
Chief Harry E. Seuster, appointed Army Colonel William Johnson to manage the Remote Viewing Unit
and evaluate its objective usefulness.
And funding dissipated in late 1994, and the program went into decline with the project
being transferred out of DIA to CIA in 1995.
In 1995, the Defense Appropriations Bill directed that the program be transferred from DIA to CIA.
Oversight in the CIA commissioned a report by the American Institute of Research.
Now, there was a positive assessment by statistician Jessica Utz that a statistically
significant effect had been demonstrated in laboratories by the government psychics,
but this was offset by a negative review by one psychologist, Ray Hyman,
who's the original guy that said, your research is bunk at SRI.
Okay. I remember him.
Because Ray Hyman gave this negative review, the CIA canceled and declassified the program.
Over the entirety of the course of this remote viewing program,
the US government spent some $20 million on Stargate and Stargate related activities,
with 11 million budgeted from the mid 1980s to the early 1990s,
and over 40 personnel serving in the program at various times,
including about 23 remote viewers at its peak.
During the mid 1980s, the program included as many as seven full-time viewers,
and as many analytical support personnel.
Three psychics reportedly worked at Fort Meade for the CIA from 1990 through to July 1995,
and the psychics were made available to other government agencies when requested,
when their services were requested.
$20 million and 40 employees. That's not a lot though to the American government.
It's really not at the end of the day.
When the entire military budget of the US is like, I think it's $800 billion a year right now.
And then there's like so many trillions of dollars that just isn't like accounted for at all.
No black funds. Well, that's another thing that we're not going to get into right now.
Just for instance, but this is just $40 million.
Now, like I said, other intelligence organizations
have requested the help of this fringe intelligence group.
It included the National Security Agency and the NSA in September of 1979.
They requested remote viewers' helps with regards to Soviet submarine construction projects.
It should also be noted that Joseph McGonigal,
that guy who gave us the day in the life of the remote viewer,
one of the chief remote viewers, later said that all readings by remote viewers
were intended merely to augment, not supplant, intelligence gained by more conventional means.
Additionally, the NSA, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Drug Enforcement Administration,
Secret Service, Customs Bureau, and the Coast Guard requested readings from Stargate Remote Viewers.
And so too did the CIA by the mid 1990s before the funding was cut off.
Yeah.
Like it's just crazy that, yeah, a lot of people believe this is bunk science,
but many others do not.
Yeah, it's true, including the people running the programs.
And at the same time, like people that are involved in it are saying like,
we didn't do this on our own.
Like there would always be further information.
So I don't really know like how useful it was, the information they'd be giving,
because even with just a 65% accuracy, that's not that much higher than a coin toss.
So how much can you actually rely on what the psychics are telling you?
No, it is.
And the other thing about it is some of them are predicting things way into the future.
Like what are they doing with this information?
Are they just like tracking it and then being like,
has this happened or like, is this going to happen yet?
And then something happens, they're like, that's a hit.
That's for sure a hit.
And if they have that, then how many are not hits?
Exactly. Yeah.
I mean, one hit is impressive though, if they're that strong on.
What it is, but even then, what is a hit?
They really seem to focus on weird things about the locations.
Like they'd be asked to describe a location.
They'd say, oh yeah, it's in a ring road with a flagpole right in the middle of it.
And we're like, oh yeah, that flagpole was dead on where it was.
Or they were dead right, there was a filing cabinet where they said it was.
But like, yeah, that's successful.
But like.
I assume when they're giving coordinates,
they have something in mind for what they're looking for.
And how are they remote viewing the exact location?
Oh, maybe they're given a person for like the hostage situation.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, okay.
Right.
Maybe that's how they're knowing where they're describing though,
if they're giving the coordinates and they know exactly like what they're looking for.
And they're like, okay, there is a flagpole there.
But what if they get the flagpole and then like the rest is off?
Would they still call that a hit?
Yeah, exactly.
And really the things that I've seen they provide,
they only really seem to give you insight after everything has occurred.
Yes.
So it's not going to prevent anything.
Like I saw one of these guys helped in a kidnapping
and they said the word Lobo keeps coming up in my mind.
Did they help kidnap someone?
They did not help kidnap someone.
In fact, they found the guy who did.
They didn't actually help.
Thank God.
Okay.
It was about to become about bad guy.
One of the guys was named Wolf.
Like his last name was Wolf, which in Spanish is Lobo.
So they keep like saying like, oh, he was right
because he said the name Lobo keeps coming up, but it was Wolf.
How was that helpful?
Was the guy Spanish?
It's not helpful at all, but it's a program that they had a target in mind
for what they wanted to do with the program,
but it wasn't helping them achieve that target.
And then like 99 times out of 100, you need to look at like satellite documents
to confirm what these guys are saying.
So like, why do you even need them to say anything
if you can just get the satellite to tell you that thing?
True.
Because they are probably hoping it could provide more intel than I guess with the satellite.
And they're still doing the studies that make sense.
But just to finish this off in 1995, as a result of the executive order
of one president, William J. Clinton, better known as Bill Clinton.
I don't know why they described him as William J. Clinton.
That name sounds so familiar.
He declassified all the materials pertaining to the SRI program,
as well as everything up to Stargate.
And because of that, there are over 13 million documents on the CIA website
that have been declassified that you're allowed to root through
to see what's going on with this.
These are kind of the big ones everybody points to when they're saying
the remote viewing was successful in what it did.
These are our success.
So number one, Joe McGonigal claims that two of the Stargate 1984
with the Legion of Merit awards were providing information on 150 targets
that were unavailable from other sources.
In 1974, one remote viewer appeared to have correctly described an airfield
with a large gantry and crane at one end of the field.
The airfield at the given map coordinates was the Soviet nuclear testing area
at Semipelentinsk.
Yep, I'm familiar with that place.
A possible underground nuclear testing site.
In general, however, most of the receiver's data was incorrect
or could not be evaluated.
A remote viewer was tasked to locate a Soviet Tu-95 bomber,
which had crashed somewhere in Africa,
which he allegedly did within several miles of the actual wreckage.
Okay, but that still doesn't count as a hit, does it?
Your mileage may vary, yes.
Another assignment included trying to hunt down Gaddafi
before the 1986 bombing of Libya, but Gaddafi was not injured in the bombing.
In February of 1988, DIA asked where Marine Corps Colonel William Higgins
was being held in Lebanon, and a remote viewer stated that Higgins
was in a specific building in a specific South Lebanon village,
and a released hostage later said to have claimed
that Higgins had probably been in that building at that time.
In January of 1989, DOD, Department of Defense, was said to have asked
about Libyan chemical weapons work.
A remote viewer reported that ships named after either Hadoi or Kodawa
would sail from Tripoli to transport chemicals to an eastern Libyan port,
and reportedly a ship named Badado loaded an undetermined cargo in Tripoli
and brought to an eastern Libyan port.
Repetedly, a remote viewer saw that a KGB colonel
caught spying in South Africa had been smuggling information
using a pocket calculator containing a communication device.
It said that questioning along these lines by South Arabian intelligence
led to the spy cooperating and telling them that that was true.
During the Gulf War, remote viewers were reported to have suggested
the whereabouts of Iraq's Saddam Hussein,
though there was never an independent verification of the findings.
A unit was tasked to find plutonium in North Korea in 1994
and apparently without any notable success.
And remote viewers were also said to have helped find Scud missiles
and secret biological and chemical warfare projects
and to have located and identified the purposes of tunnels
and extensive underground facilities.
Also a big one, it's not in this group,
but they were asked to help with the Iran hostage situation
that happened in the 1970s.
Apparently they had some success with it,
but I feel like Chelsea's gonna go over that in your episode,
but she might not.
I do, yeah.
Okay, good.
I do.
Now, I know what you're thinking,
and this is something I had to ask.
Is this still going on?
Yes, it all closed down technically through the government in 1995,
but they specifically talked about Science Application International Corp,
which you can still buy shares in today.
They're $93 a share.
It still exists.
In fact, they're still doing things like this for the government.
In 2014, the Office of Naval Research launched a four-year program
costing about 3.85 million to explore the use of premonition or intuition
which is popularly known as Sixth Sense,
or even a Spidey Sense in honor of the web-throwing superhero
among sailors and marines.
And Dr. Edwin May, who was involved fully in Project Stargate,
the former Stargate research head,
had continued to argue on behalf of ESP as a legitimate tool
for military and domestic intelligence
long after the program was shut down.
So they're at least still doing some quasi-paranormal research,
and who knows what else they're doing
because they're a private corporation, so we'll never...
Part of the government, right?
Exactly, and that means that we'll never be able to FOIA them
or know for sure what this company is doing.
Right. Why not invest though?
So that's the history of remote viewing in the US government.
Like I said, you can find so much of this on the CIA website
because it has all been publicly disclosed.
To finish this off, I thought I would pick
the strangest of the documents that is on this group
to read through with you.
Nice.
The title of this document, Mars Exploration.
May 22nd, 1984.
Perfect. I like it already.
Method of Site Acquisitions.
Sealed envelopes coupled with geographic coordinates.
The sealed envelope was given to the subject
immediately prior to the interview.
The envelope was not opened until after the interview.
In the envelope was a three by five card
with the following information.
The planet Mars, the time of interest
approximately one million years BC.
Selected geographic coordinates provided by the parties
requesting the information were verbally given
to the subject during the interview.
And this is getting into the interview.
All right now, using the information in the envelope
I've provided exclusively focusing your attention now.
Using the information in the envelope,
focus on 40.9 degrees North, 9.55 degrees West.
Subject.
I want to say it looks like a, I don't know, sort of looks.
I kind of got an oblique view of a pyramid or pyramid form.
It's very high.
It's kind of sitting in a large depressed area.
Monitor. All right.
Subject.
It's yellowish or ochre colored.
Monitor. All right.
Move in time to the time indicated in the envelope
I've provided you and describe what's happening.
Subject.
I'm tracking severe, severe clouds, more like dust, storm.
It's geological problem.
Seems to be like just a minute.
I've got to iron this out.
It's really weird.
Monitor.
Just report your raw perception at this time.
You're still early in the session.
Subject.
I'm looking at an after effect of a major geological point.
Geological problem.
Monitor.
Okay.
Go back in time before the geological problem.
Subject.
Total difference.
Before there's no, I don't know.
Oh, hell.
It's like mountains of dirt appear and then disappear.
When you go before, see large flat surfaces, very smooth angles, walls.
They're really large though.
I mean, they're megalithic.
Monitor.
All right.
At this period in time now, before the geologic activity,
look around in and around this area and see if you can find any activity.
Subject.
I'm seeing, it's like a perception of a shadow of people.
Very tall, thin.
It's only a shadow.
It's as if we're there and they're not.
Not there anymore.
Monitor.
Go back to a period of time where they are there.
Subject.
It's like I get a lot of static on a line and everything.
It's breaking up all the time.
Very fragmentary pieces.
Monitor.
Just report the raw data.
Don't try to put things together.
Just report the raw data.
Subject.
I just keep seeing very large people.
They appear thin and tall, but they're very large,
wearing some kind of strange clothes.
That's probably a good spot to stop.
Is that not so bizarre?
These weird things and then they ask this guy,
they ask him a few weird places.
They ask him to look into Atlantis and then this Mars one I find so bizarre.
Like he saw people on Mars a million BC.
Observations.
The coordinates they're giving, I know you're reading it,
but it seems like they're giving, are they looking for something?
It almost seems like they're looking for something.
At one point he says, yeah, that's correct.
Let's move here.
And they're moving to very specific coordinates.
It's almost like-
It's really weird.
And I do know for a fact, the first coordinates they picked are Sedonia on Mars,
which is where the face is and there's a few different objects on Mars.
Objects that always pique conspiracy minded people's interests.
I'm glad you knew that.
And that's specifically where they saw those tall creatures.
That's very bizarre.
To be fair, Ed Daines is in charge of Project Stargate while this is all going on.
And he's a crazy man to the extent where he was going to write a tell-all novel
about Project Stargate in 1992 prior to it all being declassified.
Like him and a psychic by the name of Morehouse had gone in together to write a book
on everything highly classified they were doing.
Like very illegal beforehand.
Like this guy is-
Yeah, they probably had like non-disclosure agreements.
And yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit about,
because Ingo Swann doesn't come up a lot in this,
but a book I was reading on retrocausation that I found very interesting
is Ingo Swann is actually a proponent that he wouldn't use astral projection
to get information on the locations he was getting.
In fact, he believed he could actually only remote view
when he would later on in life be given further information
about the sites that he was looking at.
So he believed that he had retrocausation.
Basically, he would be stealing memories from the future of what he was seeing,
which I find very interesting.
That is interesting because technically there is times of construct.
Yeah.
So technically it would be a true thing that you could do.
Yeah.
I would say that time's a flat circle, but a circle is already flat.
People keep saying that.
I hear that a lot, but it's an incorrect statement.
You could say time is a flat sphere.
It is not a flat circle.
It's two dimensional, they mean.
Yeah.
All you need to say is time is a circle, not a flat circle.
It's already implied.
But that's where I'm going to lead off my story today.
That is the history of remote viewing within the US government itself.
Is it still ongoing?
Hell, it might not. It might be, but it is in the private sector now.
And privatized.
Yeah.
As far as remote viewing goes, I believe in it.
I think it's definitely something.
I think there's something there in the program as it was designed for.
I don't know.
They definitely didn't get what they were looking for,
just because what we were talking about through the episode,
where they were predicting things that didn't come true until later.
And then at what point do you use that intel?
Or do you know what intel to use to go where to prevent things?
Like, yeah, like 65 percent.
How is that going to help you?
And then even what are they right about?
Because they be asked to describe a location.
Are they right about where the road is?
Are they right about where the documents are that you want?
Like, what are they actually right about?
And like for the hostages, which we'll talk again in the next episode,
it all comes to light and they're like, oh, I predicted that.
And like, yeah, so what?
You didn't prevent anything.
You didn't save anybody.
Everybody could have died.
And like, and then what?
You couldn't have prevented anything.
You didn't save anybody.
It obviously didn't get to the point where it was actually getting any intel
or anything that we know of.
So there's definitely something there.
Even if there is something there, it's not useful.
No, it's not useful at all.
And I think at the end of the day, that's the most important thing
that we've drawn from these stories, is even if their psychic abilities
are correct, they can't use it for anything.
Yeah.
And then you get to the fact, which is just a technicality of psychics
where they say you can take different timelines and stuff like that,
in which case it might not even have the same outcome.
It's just like psychic.
So like you are going to do this in the future and either it happens
or it doesn't happen.
And like at what point you're like, ah, they predicted it.
Like what impact did that actually have on your life?
Like nothing, because you got there eventually.
But hey, let's not spoil it all here.
Because we're going to do another episode on this entire subject.
Yeah.
So maybe there's more to this entire thing, hey?
Huh?
Perhaps.
Huh?
Perhaps.
I guess we will see you on the next episode to find out.
And hey, you still need to wait and see what those coordinates
were I gave you.
So I'm excited to see.
Thank you all for listening and we will see you next week.
Bye.
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