1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 You did it! Now I have a snack in my mouth. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,960 Okay, I found this article that I found very interesting, labeled, 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,440 Polish Institute says that cats are an alien invasive species. 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,200 And I was intrigued to learn more. 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:20,560 A respected Polish scientific institute has classified common house cats as an invasive alien species. 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,440 The institute did this because of the damage cats cause to birds and other wildlife. 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:31,840 This respected Polish scientific institute doesn't seem to actually be named in this article. 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:38,080 And then it goes on to say some cat lovers have reacted emotionally to this decision. 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,240 Yeah, but what are you gonna do? It's a respected Polish scientific center. 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,520 Maybe that's the name of the Polish scientific institute. 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,840 I mean, if I was gonna name a scientific society, I would name it respected right off the bat. 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,680 Yeah, they're respected so-and-so journey to the fringe institute of scientific technology. 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,640 Journey to the fringe owned by respected corporation. 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,480 Yeah, cat people are having strong emotional reactions to this. 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:11,280 And the strong reactions have put the main scientist behind the decision on the defensive. 16 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,800 That's probably why they didn't name it. 17 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,840 And his name is Wojciech? Wojciech? Let's just move on. 18 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,040 Solars is a biologist to the state-run Polish Academy of Sciences. 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,760 Already good. Oh, that's what it's named. Polish Academy of Sciences, right? 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,000 Oh, that's respected. Yeah. 21 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:36,240 Yeah. So the Academy's Institute of Nature Conservation runs a database of invasive alien 22 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,680 species. And somehow cats made their way onto this list. 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,920 It was surprised by the public reaction following the addition of Feliz Catist in the database. 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,400 That's what they go by. That's their long name. 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,000 Yeah. Feliz Catist. 26 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:57,840 Okay. The database already had 1,786 other species listed with no objections, 27 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:04,000 Solars told the Associated Press on Tuesday. The public anger, he said, may have come from the 28 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,360 media. Some media reports may have misinformed people that the Institute is calling for wild 29 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,880 and domestic cats to be killed. Oh my gosh. Some would say they're going too far. Others, 30 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:22,800 not far enough. The public certainly jumped to wild accusations here. The criteria for including 31 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,760 the cat among alien invasive species are a hundred percent met by the cat, he said. What? 32 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:33,600 Oh, hold on. I missed a part. Solars described the growing scientific belief that domestic cats harm 33 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,560 biodiversity, which they do, but that's on the chain of command, isn't it? Like everything has 34 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:44,000 the circle of life. Well, yeah, but they're introducing something into the ecosystem. 35 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,840 Like cats aren't naturally occurring in the domesticated cats aren't. Yeah. 36 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,200 So this is because of the number of birds and mammals that cats hunt and kill. The criteria, 37 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,640 here we go. The criteria for including the cat among alien invasive species are a hundred percent 38 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:06,880 met by the cat. That's it, right? Yeah, we can add it there. I don't end it there. I don't really 39 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,840 think there's much more to add. Cat people are enraged. This guy is like, yeah, they're an alien 40 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:18,320 invasive species. And there we have it. And now with that, we can start the episode. 41 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,400 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a Journey to the Fringe. 42 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the inevitable place that the consequences of your 43 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:43,680 past actions have led you. We are your inevitable hosts to this thing that you couldn't avoid due 44 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:49,200 to the actions you've taken in the past, Chelsea and Taylor. Here today, this is going to be a two 45 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,480 part episode, at least how we've had it planned. Not me personally, but between the two of us. 46 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:00,480 About a fringe topic indeed. And that is remote viewing. It's going to be a little odd how we're 47 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,320 breaking it up, but what's going to happen here is first off, we're going to tell you what the 48 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:10,240 hell remote viewing is. And then from there, I am going to go over the history of remote viewing 49 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:16,240 within the government of the United States. It seemed logical at the time we were breaking it up. 50 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,840 It did. But now describing it to you all, it seems strange. It does seem strange, doesn't it? But 51 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:28,240 we're here now and we cannot avoid this. From there, Chelsea is then going to go over 52 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,840 notable characters within the remote viewing community. Yes, I'll do that. You know, time 53 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:39,040 permitting, we might also get a snack break in there. Oh, I'm already snacking. Some of us will 54 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,200 have to wait until the snack break. Some of us will have already done it. It's quite a silent 55 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:48,160 snack though. It's Swedish fish. You're going wrong with your snack breaks. Another classic, 56 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,200 but not as crunchy. You do like to hear it on a podcast, don't you? Now, before we get this 57 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,320 episode started, what I would like you all to do, at least those of you who are not driving things. 58 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,800 Oh, I like this. Those of you who can't afford to close your eyes, please don't close your eyes. The 59 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:08,320 rest of you, please close your eyes. Just relax that mind. Go to a happy place. And I'm going to 60 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:18,160 tell you something here. 48 degrees, 52.6 minutes south, 123 degrees, 23.6 minutes west. And I want 61 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:24,320 you to tell me what you're picturing. What do those coordinates elicit inside you? I feel like 62 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:30,880 it's a river with a tree. Okay. Now we are experiencing right now. You can open your eyes 63 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:37,760 back up. If not, you're more than welcome to keep experiencing this podcast in the I closed format. 64 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,200 This podcast, in fact, we prefer it that way as that is the intended viewership that we are going 65 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:49,280 after with this podcast. It's a little late in the podcast series to bring that up. Yeah. Sorry, 66 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:57,040 guys. If you can go back now. Also snack the entire time. Unless we say don't, then you should not be 67 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:03,280 snacking. Definitely don't. We've never said that once. But what you just experienced there is just 68 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:08,960 just a small taste of what is the life of a remote viewer. Hold on. Do we get to know where those 69 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,680 coordinates were? Was I right? No, you know what? I'm actually going to wait until the next episode 70 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:19,520 to tell you where those coordinates are. Oh, so that hopefully we can get some responses from our 71 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:25,280 viewers to let us know what they think. Please don't just Google it. Let us know what you think. 72 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:30,160 I never would have thought of that. But now that you said it, I also don't know what minutes means 73 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:35,440 in the coordinates. Okay. So what is remote viewing? Well, it's the practice of seeking 74 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,160 impressions about a distant or unseen subject. Reportedly sensing with the mind. Typically, 75 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,880 a remote viewer is expected to give information about an object, event, person or location that 76 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:51,360 is hidden from physical view and separated at least by some distance from the viewer themselves. 77 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,480 Some people say that this is really there's no difference between astral projecting and remote 78 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:03,280 viewing. In my mind, remote viewing is the result. Astral projecting can be one of the actions that 79 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:08,960 you can take to actually remote view. However, it is not interchangeable in and of itself. And in 80 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,520 fact, I will bring it up at the end, at least something that makes me think it's different. 81 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,080 Another way to remote view that I have seen is retro causal effects with time. And I will talk 82 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:23,840 about that at the end as well. But remote viewing is simply viewing a place, however you got there, 83 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,120 there are multiple ways, but generally you are not physically going to that location, 84 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:34,160 hence the remote part of it. Wouldn't that make it the astral projecting part of it though? You're 85 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,440 like, no, I don't know that confused me. Okay, continue. Astral projecting is only one way of 86 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:45,360 remote viewing. There are multiple ways to see a location without being there. When astral projection 87 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,800 being like someone else was astral projecting, they could see you there. That's an entirely 88 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,880 different thing to go over. That is an astral projection episode. We're not doing astral 89 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:01,200 projection episode. Okay. We're doing a remote viewing episode. Okay. Okay. Let's go back. 90 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:08,400 Remote viewing, it's a very niche, I almost want to say psychic affair that has always been obscure. 91 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:14,400 It's only been really looked at starting in the 1930s and really starting to get prominence 92 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:20,000 throughout the world in the 1960s. That is actually where our story starts. So the catalyst is really 93 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,360 for at least US interest in this topic, learning that the USSR apparently had interest in it. 94 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,480 Because if you ever wanted the US to actually do anything, all you had to literally say was, 95 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:37,040 well, the USSR is doing it. They're doing all of it. Yeah. And in this case, that's what happened. 96 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:43,520 There were rumors of a number of Soviet scientists studying various aspects of paranormal phenomena, 97 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,800 including telekinesis, extra sensory perception, or EST, parapsychology, and various other psychic 98 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,200 phenomena. These scientists had worked with military and intelligence agencies in their 99 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,400 country to explore methods for deployment of paranormal abilities for defense and intelligence 100 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,840 collection purposes. Among the most intriguing stories included in what the US was hearing about 101 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,760 the USSR was an account of an experiment involving rabbits. Electrodes were inserted into the brain 102 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:15,120 of a mother rabbit and baby rabbits without implanted electrodes were placed on a submarine 103 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,480 that was taken out to sea and submerged. A baby rabbit would then be killed. And as the scientists 104 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,480 recorded, the brain of the mother many miles away on shore reacted at the moment of death, 105 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:32,800 setting aside all questions of animal cruelty and experimental ethics. This was interpreted to show 106 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:39,120 that ESP existed and served to connect minds. Now there are many different rumors activities 107 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:45,360 that the USSR was working on. This is one of the stories. Another one is that they had telekinetic 108 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,520 individuals who were able to stop the heart of a frog. I found one literally in an unclassified 109 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,480 document from the CIA database. Abstract, dear editors, I am a construction engineer, 110 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:02,880 Rafaelian, and I'm writing you from the sunny state of Georgia. I lived in Tlisty and have now 111 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:08,960 been listening for several years to various oral sources of stories about a certain Krivletov. 112 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,960 Who somehow is successfully healing patients by laying on of hands. I also heard that his 113 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:20,800 self-educated magician was investigated by various specialists, in particular the inventors, 114 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:26,640 Mr. And Mrs. Curliam, and that somehow the secret of his miracle working hands has been divine. 115 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:32,320 Is this true or not? Couldn't tell you of this healer in greater detail. Like I just love like 116 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:38,400 this, this weird letter that somebody wrote to the CIA ended up top secret and got released in 117 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:45,920 2005. I love it. But like this is the world that is inhabited in the late 60s, early 70s. All these 118 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:52,720 strange stories coming out of the USSR and the US government has to take them serious. Oh, anything 119 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:58,400 that had anything to do, even things that were to do with the USSR at that time were thought to be, 120 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,280 it could be. So it was very hush-hush about anything going on. Like I said, if you want to 121 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:08,960 grant money for anything, all you had to say was like, well, the USSR is doing it. They're doing it 122 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,760 hard. Like millions. Or either that or it's to fight back against the USSR. So I'm going to need 123 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,880 this grant money. You know, not giving me this is just welcoming communism into this country, right? 124 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,520 And then, yeah, Ike Eisenhower foaming at the mouth just hands you as much money as he possibly 125 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:32,160 can while invading Guatemala. The United States intelligence sources believe that the Soviet 126 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,560 Union was spending upwards of 60 million rubles annually on psychotronic research. You know what? 127 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:44,480 I didn't actually check. Let's check really quick how much that would be. Rubles. Sounds high tech. 128 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,600 I would be interested to know what kind of research the Soviets were doing with this. 129 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,800 It's probably intense. To be honest, I've never been able to find anything from them. Oh, no, 130 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,080 they're probably much better. Which is funny. Yeah. Keeping things secret than the US, 131 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,560 declassifying letters from construction workers. Oh, OK. One US dollar equals four old rubles. 132 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:11,600 So that means they were spending. I assume we're talking old rubles, not new rubles. If that's 133 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:18,560 different, then I am sorry. What is the timeline for old rubles? But we're talking about 15 million 134 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:26,160 US dollars in 1970 monies annually. So old means 1970. On psychotronics. Well, no, no, we're talking 135 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:33,120 about 1970 would be today and they're spending old rubles on it. But I don't know what that means 136 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,280 per se to the 1970s people. OK. In response to claims that the Soviet program had produced results, 137 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:46,320 the CIA initiated funding for a program known as SCN8. Scan by coordinate is what that stands for. 138 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,000 And in the same year, remote viewing research began in 1972 at what's known as the Stanford 139 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:58,240 Research Institute. This place comes up a lot. It's shortened to SRI. It is not a government 140 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:04,400 office. It is a university at Stanford. And this is where the original remote viewing research 141 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:09,120 starts in the US. This is Menlo Park, California. And this research is being done by physicists 142 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:16,080 Russell Targ and Harold Putoff. And they began testing psychics for SRI in 1972. There were two 143 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,120 people that they started testing, not off the bat, but the first person they start testing for 144 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,800 psychic phenomena is a man by the name of Yuri Geller. He's an Israeli nationalist by birth, 145 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,520 23 years old in 1972. And he's a stage magician. Like, let's just get that out of the way. The guy 146 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:38,800 is a stage magician. He's well known for bending spoons on stage, stopping watches, and then also 147 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,480 every now and then making weird claims on stage that every now and then come true. The big rumored 148 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,440 one that there's not a lot of stative things to back it up is that he claimed that the he felt 149 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:55,280 terrible that day because he felt like the ruler of Egypt was either dead or about to die. And 150 00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:00,720 later that day, the ruler of Egypt dies. Oh my gosh, that's pretty accurate. But if you say enough 151 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,680 bold claims every day, one of them is bound to come true. Exactly. He could have said that every 152 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:12,000 day of his life. Yeah, man, I'm just not feeling good. Egyptian ruler is about to die. Well, 153 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,240 especially I don't know who the Egyptian ruler was at the time. He could have been like a 90 year 154 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,440 old man, to be fair. Yeah, from here on out, I'm going to say I'm not feeling well today. The queen 155 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:28,240 of England is about to die. Yeah, is either dead or about to die. I'm going to be right one day. 156 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,440 Man, are you going to feel bad when you're right though? 157 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,720 You're not, you don't want that kind of power. That's true. So Yuri Geller gets involved and 158 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:44,160 they start doing some tests on this man to really show that he has some sort of psychic power. 159 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,440 Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff think that they're successful tests and their apparent success 160 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:55,040 results garnered interest within the US government by a man with the US Department of Defense, 161 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Ray Hyman. He's a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. He was asked by the Air Force 162 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:06,000 psychologist, Lieutenant Colonel Austin W. Kibler, then director of behavioral research for ARPA, 163 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:12,000 to go to SRI and investigate what they were doing and if there's any credence to it. He was told to 164 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:18,400 specifically evaluate Yuri Geller and Hyman's report to the government was that Geller was a 165 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:24,480 complete fraud, like complete and utter fraud. And as a consequence, Targ and Puthoff lost their 166 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,480 government contract to work further with him. The result was a publicity tour for Geller, 167 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,120 Targ and Puthoff to seek private funding for further research work on Geller. They start 168 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,520 their initial testing on this psychic. A government official comes and actually looks at the tests 169 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,160 they're doing. They're like, these are absolute shit tests. Their response are, well, we're going 170 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:49,840 to get different people to pay us now. Oh man. When Geller's supposed abilities were tested by 171 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:55,680 the US Central Intelligence Agency in 1973, the experiments concluded that Geller had demonstrated 172 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:01,200 his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner. On that funding tour, 173 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:06,800 they went to the CIA. CIA was convinced, you know what, Yuri's got some sort of paranormal ability. 174 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,480 I think we want to work with you guys. So a study was commissioned by the United States 175 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Defense Intelligence Agency, a Stargate project and conducted during August, 1973 at Stanford 176 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:21,360 researchers. Geller was isolated and asked to reproduce simple drawings prepared in another 177 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:27,200 room, writing about the same study in 1974, an article published in the journal Nature. They 178 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,760 concluded that he had performed successfully enough to warrant further serious studies. 179 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,240 So basically what they would do, Yuri Geller would have to go into an isolated room. 180 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,920 They would have a participant in the study go into another room, pick a word from the dictionary, 181 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,800 and they would draw that picture. And then they would ask Yuri Geller to draw what he thinks 182 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:52,320 they were drawing. There was at least enough consistency in what they were seeing that they 183 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:57,600 said these were successful tests. He was drawing things that were similar to what the other person 184 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,520 was seeing. So that he had some way of either communicating with people through rooms or he 185 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:09,280 was able to view that other room and see what was going on in it. Party games to play, I think. 186 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,360 Yeah. This is the thing with a lot of these tests. I'm going to put it up front just so that you guys 187 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:21,840 all know where I'm coming from. They're never done in a way that you can fully say when a test is 188 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:28,400 successful. So like if you're asking somebody to draw just something, what would be the cutoff line 189 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:34,000 for this is a successful test or this is an unsuccessful test? I would say if it was me, 190 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:40,640 it wasn't because this was in the past before it was born. I would say if it kind of looked like 191 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,840 what you had drawn, kind of resembled it. Yeah. But the part I have a hard time with too, and they 192 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,880 never talk about this. Yuri Geller is a stage magician and I guarantee you he's a slippery 193 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,640 talker. So I'm feeling he has a few tricks of either getting a rapport with people so that he 194 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:01,760 either feels like he knows what they're going to be doing, like a cold reading of sorts, or two, 195 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:07,520 convincing people that he has a successful answer when it's ambiguous. Yeah. But we'll never know 196 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,320 the answer for sure. He's a smooth talker though, so he could have. Exactly. Everybody involved in this is a smooth 197 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,680 talker and... Which you would have to be to be a psychic that has no actual psychic powers. 198 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Yeah, it's true. And then spoiler alert, there's a lot of Scientologists. Yes, I did know that. 199 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,440 Just to continue on with that. In the Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and 200 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,400 Supernatural, Putoff and Russell Targ, who studied Mr. Geller at the Stanford Research Institute, 201 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,360 were aware in one instance at least that they were being shown a magician's trick by Geller. 202 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:42,160 Their protocols for their serious investigation of the power claim by Geller were described by 203 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,800 Ray Hyman, who investigated the project on behalf of the Department of Defense's Advanced Research 204 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,000 Project Agency as sloppy and inadequate. Critics have pointed out that both Putoff and Targ were 205 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,680 already believers in paranormal powers and Geller was not adequately searched before experiments, 206 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:03,280 and psychologists C.E.M. Hansel and skeptic Paul Kurtz have noted that experiments were poorly 207 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:08,400 designed and open to trickery. So when we're talking about successful results, that was another 208 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,400 thing. These are critiques. There are people involved in the studies themselves though. 209 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,560 So this program at this point is kind of based on Uri Geller's... 210 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:22,800 It's just Uri Geller at this point. They've just gotten money to study his paranormal abilities. 211 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,360 Okay. 212 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:27,840 And this is coming from the CIA. And although several professional magicians have duplicated 213 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,400 many of Mr. Geller's feats by using sleight of hand techniques, the SRI scientists said in a 214 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,960 telephone interview that their current report was based on experiments in which trickery would seem 215 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,920 to be unlikely. The scientists said that they had consulted professional magicians in designing 216 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:48,000 their experiments to be as cheat proof as possible. Mr. Geller was sealed in a room with metal walls 217 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,880 capable of insulating it from external sites, sounds, and radio waves, the scientists said. 218 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,120 Outside that room, the researchers opened a dictionary at random, looked down the list of 219 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,880 entries for the first word that they could depict graphically, and then drew a picture 220 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,840 corresponding to the word. Mr. Geller's task was to draw a similar picture, and the researchers said 221 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,280 he was never told who would select the picture or how it would be done. In nine such experiments, 222 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:16,080 Mr. Geller produced seven drawings or sets of drawings. All of Mr. Geller's responses, 223 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,680 which were published in the Nature article alongside the researchers drawings, 224 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,960 showed some degree of corresponding to the target picture. Most showed remarkable similarities. 225 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,840 And in the two instances in which Mr. Geller did not produce a drawing, he had been fitted with 226 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,560 brain wave recording electrodes that he said interfered with his ability. And in a 10th 227 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,880 experiment, the drawings were placed in a sealed room before Mr. Geller's arrival. 228 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,920 Later, when asked to reproduce the drawing, he was unable to do so. In three additional 229 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,560 experiments, images that could be displayed by computers were stored in the machine's memory, 230 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,440 known only to the programmer, and Mr. Geller in the sealed room during the selection and 231 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,600 programming of the image produced drawings that all bore some degree of similarity. 232 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,920 From these experiments, among others, the scientists Russell Targ and Dr. Harold 233 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:07,440 Puthoff concluded that Mr. Geller did indeed possess telepathic ability. Publications of the 234 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,160 report by the British scientific magazine Nature, one of the most respected international science 235 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:18,000 journals, represents something of a first for parapsychology. Research in the field is almost 236 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,200 always reported only in journals that circulate within the specialty. However, the editor of Nature, 237 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,280 aware of the controversy that the article included in the October 18th issue might arouse, 238 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,480 then published an editorial explaining why they had chosen to print the article, despite the 239 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:38,080 objections of some article's referees, according to the editorial consultants, that the report was 240 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:44,160 weak in design and presentation, and that details of precautions against conscious or unconscious 241 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,200 fraud were uncomfortably vague. So there's controversies about the studies that are actually 242 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,720 going on at this time, but nonetheless, the US government sees these and they are happy with 243 00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:01,280 what's going on, to the extent that by the time 1975 rolls around, Yuri Geller, who again is an 244 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:07,840 Israeli nationalist, was invited to do a classified psychokinetic test at a lab in Livermore, 245 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,400 California, where scientists were developing advanced nuclear warheads, laser systems, 246 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,320 and other emerging weapons technologies. So the fact that he's not American, and in fact, 247 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,280 might be working for a government with conflicting views, doesn't stop him at all from being invited 248 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,040 to a nuclear testing facility. They thought he had some things. Well, we learned about that back in 249 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:35,280 our nuclear episode. Yeah. He never came up in that episode though. The CIA starts getting more 250 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,320 people involved. A name that comes up about now, but I'm not going to talk about him yet, is a man 251 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:46,320 by the name of Ingo Swan, who goes through many of the same testings as Yuri Geller. Right now, 252 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,840 I do want to make a note, they're going to start recruiting many telekinetics and remote viewers 253 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,720 for future testing and involvement in the government very shortly. However, many of the SRI 254 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:04,000 MPAS were from the Church of Scientology, including Ingo Swan, who was an OT level seven 255 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Scientologist. Individuals who appeared to show potential were trained and taught to use talents 256 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,960 of psychic warfare, most of them by Ingo Swan. And the minimum accuracy that was needed by clients 257 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:21,360 was said to be about 65% to continue on to actually become usable by the government. 258 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:25,760 Proponents claim that in the later stages of the training effort, this accuracy level was 259 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,960 often consistently exceeded. Seems low for a government program, but it also seems like 260 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,240 this is the first program of its kind. So they wouldn't know how to test it or anything like 261 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,240 that. And there was crit- what's the word I'm looking for? Criticizing? Criticism? Criticism 262 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:48,160 of the way they were testing it, but they weren't seeing a better way because they didn't know. Well, 263 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,200 yeah, it is hard to test. Am I right? That's the thing. And especially, I hear they need a minimum 264 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:59,600 accuracy of 65%. I don't know what that means, but we all get into that in a bit. Around the 265 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:06,720 mid to late 1970s, the CIA decides to shut down its ESP work and the program moves from the CIA 266 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,920 to the US Army and it moves to Fort Meade in Maryland, where it was funded by the Defense 267 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,920 Intelligence Agency. At this point, it becomes known as Gondola Wish and it was a 1977 Army 268 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence Systems Exploitation Departments effort to evaluate 269 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,480 potential adversary applications of remote viewing. And building on Gondola Wish, an 270 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,480 operational collection project was formalized under Army Intelligence as Grill Flame in mid 1978. 271 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:42,080 It was located in buildings 2560 and 2561 at Fort Meade. Grill Flame consisted of soldiers and a few 272 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,280 civilians who were believed to possess varying degrees of natural psychic ability. The SRI 273 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:53,200 research program was integrated into Grill Flame in early 1979 and hundreds of remote viewing 274 00:24:53,200 --> 00:25:00,000 experiments were carried out at SRI through 1986. So there is a distinct split from what was going 275 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,240 on beforehand to being moved into the government itself. Okay, and this is still the same program 276 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,120 or a different one? It's still technically the same program. The names are changing and the part 277 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,120 of the government's involved with is changing as well, but it's the same people involved in it. 278 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,920 Okay. At this point, I found somebody who was involved with it provided an idea of what their 279 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:26,400 typical day was as a remote viewer. On a typical workday, McMonagall said he reported to an old 280 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,440 leaky wooden barracks at Fort Meade where he went into a one-person office. He sat at a desk and a 281 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,720 typewriter and a coffee of muck. The CUP said this end up and had an arrow pointing the wrong way. 282 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,360 He was then presented with sealed envelopes, sometimes large brown ones, sometimes small 283 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:46,240 white ones, and he was asked to supply information about whatever was inside. There might be a 284 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,480 photograph of a person. He would be asked to describe where the person was located. That's 285 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,040 what they would do. They'd be handed an envelope and we either have coordinates, a picture of 286 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,240 someone, an idea of something, and they will be asked to describe it. There were some successes. 287 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,640 One of the project's big successes was the location of a La Soviet spy plane in 1976 by Rosemary Smith, 288 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,560 a young administrative assistant recruited by project director Dale Graff. 289 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,200 Quick question. Are they just being like, hey, secretary sitting right there, you don't look 290 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,160 busy. Do you want to come try your hand at remote viewing? See, I don't think that's how it worked. 291 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,840 I feel like Ingo Swann had trained her, but it is weird that they described her as an assistant. 292 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,360 Yeah. But maybe it's just the fact that she was a woman. Maybe she couldn't be a remote 293 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:36,320 viewer for three years. True, true. That could be very true. Yeah. Any lady was automatically 294 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,440 an assistant. Yeah. Now in 1981, the project was expanded to be a joint project between the 295 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,840 Defense Intelligence Agency and the Army. And it was a planned three year joint program between 296 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,920 the DIA and Army to investigate in detail certain paranormal phenomena such as remote viewing, 297 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,520 psychokinesis that have potential military applications. Emphasis has been on evaluating 298 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:03,040 application potential and limitations of remote viewing phenomena and to evaluate the significance 299 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:09,600 of foreign work, particularly as it may pose a threat to the US. In 1981, the US Army spent 300 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:18,720 $130,000, which moved to $140,000 in 1982. And then the DIA provided $300,000 in 1981 to be $335,000 301 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,240 in 1982. So it's not a lot of money, but it's being spent. And they are spending man hours on 302 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,480 it at least as well. They said the DIA was using one and a half man years in power on this project. 303 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,160 And the Army is using about a quarter of a man year. So imagine you have all these... 304 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:34,960 What is a man year? 305 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,040 It's basically how many hours a person works in a year. That's how many hours you're committing 306 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,600 to it. So if it's more than a person would work in a year, that means you're expanding one point, 307 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,400 whatever it would be. Okay. And that all came right from CIA documents that were released. 308 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:54,400 Like it's on the CIA website. It's crazy. Yeah. Now in 1983, the program was redesigned, 309 00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:01,200 re-designated the INSCOM Center Lane Project, and Ingo Swan and Harold Putoff at SRI developed a 310 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:06,480 set of instructions, which theoretically allowed anyone to be trained to produce accurate, detailed 311 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,360 target data. And they use this new collection methodology against a wide range of operational 312 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:17,360 training targets. The existence of this highly classified program finally became public knowledge 313 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:23,600 in 1984 when it was reported by columnist Jack Anderson. Up until now, it's been just a secret 314 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,080 thing going on in the background. And now it's starting to leak out. And like these are the real 315 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:34,000 conspiracies back in the day that were very real. In late 1985, the army funding was terminated, 316 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,040 but the program was re-designated Sunstreak and funded by the DIA Scientific and Technical 317 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,320 Intelligence Directorate. 318 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Sunstreak is what it's called now? 319 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Yeah. Okay. 320 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,880 It changes names so fricking often. 321 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,440 Really? 322 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,840 In 1991, most of the contracting for the program was transferred from SRI to the Science 323 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,200 Applications Internal Corporation, SAIC, which is still traded on the market today. 324 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,760 With Edmund May controlling 70% of the contractor funds and 85% of the data, 325 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,760 its security was altered from Special Access Program to Limited Dissemination, 326 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,320 and was given its final name, Project Stargate. 327 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,760 In 1991? 328 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,280 Yeah, that's when it was finally called Stargate. 329 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,760 Okay. Wow. That's not recent, but recent in my mind. 330 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,320 Yeah, for how long it was going on. That's 20 years in. 331 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:20,880 Yeah. 332 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,840 In the early 1990s, the Military Intelligence Board, chaired by Defense Intelligence Agency 333 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,280 Chief Harry E. Seuster, appointed Army Colonel William Johnson to manage the Remote Viewing Unit 334 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240 and evaluate its objective usefulness. 335 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,120 And funding dissipated in late 1994, and the program went into decline with the project 336 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,640 being transferred out of DIA to CIA in 1995. 337 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:49,360 In 1995, the Defense Appropriations Bill directed that the program be transferred from DIA to CIA. 338 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,920 Oversight in the CIA commissioned a report by the American Institute of Research. 339 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,960 Now, there was a positive assessment by statistician Jessica Utz that a statistically 340 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,800 significant effect had been demonstrated in laboratories by the government psychics, 341 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,920 but this was offset by a negative review by one psychologist, Ray Hyman, 342 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,240 who's the original guy that said, your research is bunk at SRI. 343 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,520 Okay. I remember him. 344 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,640 Because Ray Hyman gave this negative review, the CIA canceled and declassified the program. 345 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,560 Over the entirety of the course of this remote viewing program, 346 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,720 the US government spent some $20 million on Stargate and Stargate related activities, 347 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,360 with 11 million budgeted from the mid 1980s to the early 1990s, 348 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,600 and over 40 personnel serving in the program at various times, 349 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400 including about 23 remote viewers at its peak. 350 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,200 During the mid 1980s, the program included as many as seven full-time viewers, 351 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,920 and as many analytical support personnel. 352 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:56,080 Three psychics reportedly worked at Fort Meade for the CIA from 1990 through to July 1995, 353 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,640 and the psychics were made available to other government agencies when requested, 354 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,480 when their services were requested. 355 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,920 $20 million and 40 employees. That's not a lot though to the American government. 356 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,160 It's really not at the end of the day. 357 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,840 When the entire military budget of the US is like, I think it's $800 billion a year right now. 358 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,880 And then there's like so many trillions of dollars that just isn't like accounted for at all. 359 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,200 No black funds. Well, that's another thing that we're not going to get into right now. 360 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,920 Just for instance, but this is just $40 million. 361 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,440 Now, like I said, other intelligence organizations 362 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,560 have requested the help of this fringe intelligence group. 363 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,480 It included the National Security Agency and the NSA in September of 1979. 364 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,760 They requested remote viewers' helps with regards to Soviet submarine construction projects. 365 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,720 It should also be noted that Joseph McGonigal, 366 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,680 that guy who gave us the day in the life of the remote viewer, 367 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,360 one of the chief remote viewers, later said that all readings by remote viewers 368 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:01,680 were intended merely to augment, not supplant, intelligence gained by more conventional means. 369 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,080 Additionally, the NSA, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Drug Enforcement Administration, 370 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,440 Secret Service, Customs Bureau, and the Coast Guard requested readings from Stargate Remote Viewers. 371 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,160 And so too did the CIA by the mid 1990s before the funding was cut off. 372 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:16,960 Yeah. 373 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,040 Like it's just crazy that, yeah, a lot of people believe this is bunk science, 374 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,520 but many others do not. 375 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,400 Yeah, it's true, including the people running the programs. 376 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,840 And at the same time, like people that are involved in it are saying like, 377 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,600 we didn't do this on our own. 378 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,920 Like there would always be further information. 379 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,720 So I don't really know like how useful it was, the information they'd be giving, 380 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,400 because even with just a 65% accuracy, that's not that much higher than a coin toss. 381 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,720 So how much can you actually rely on what the psychics are telling you? 382 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:47,440 No, it is. 383 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,680 And the other thing about it is some of them are predicting things way into the future. 384 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,000 Like what are they doing with this information? 385 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,400 Are they just like tracking it and then being like, 386 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,040 has this happened or like, is this going to happen yet? 387 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,200 And then something happens, they're like, that's a hit. 388 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,320 That's for sure a hit. 389 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,200 And if they have that, then how many are not hits? 390 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,240 Exactly. Yeah. 391 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040 I mean, one hit is impressive though, if they're that strong on. 392 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,680 What it is, but even then, what is a hit? 393 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,240 They really seem to focus on weird things about the locations. 394 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,000 Like they'd be asked to describe a location. 395 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,720 They'd say, oh yeah, it's in a ring road with a flagpole right in the middle of it. 396 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,840 And we're like, oh yeah, that flagpole was dead on where it was. 397 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,360 Or they were dead right, there was a filing cabinet where they said it was. 398 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:30,880 But like, yeah, that's successful. 399 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,280 But like. 400 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,920 I assume when they're giving coordinates, 401 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,440 they have something in mind for what they're looking for. 402 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,560 And how are they remote viewing the exact location? 403 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,040 Oh, maybe they're given a person for like the hostage situation. 404 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,160 Yeah, exactly. 405 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,280 Oh, okay. 406 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:47,840 Right. 407 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,880 Maybe that's how they're knowing where they're describing though, 408 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,480 if they're giving the coordinates and they know exactly like what they're looking for. 409 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,800 And they're like, okay, there is a flagpole there. 410 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,080 But what if they get the flagpole and then like the rest is off? 411 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,680 Would they still call that a hit? 412 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,720 Yeah, exactly. 413 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,840 And really the things that I've seen they provide, 414 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,000 they only really seem to give you insight after everything has occurred. 415 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:10,480 Yes. 416 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,800 So it's not going to prevent anything. 417 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,840 Like I saw one of these guys helped in a kidnapping 418 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,800 and they said the word Lobo keeps coming up in my mind. 419 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,320 Did they help kidnap someone? 420 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,840 They did not help kidnap someone. 421 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,520 In fact, they found the guy who did. 422 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:24,560 They didn't actually help. 423 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,360 Thank God. 424 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:25,760 Okay. 425 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,520 It was about to become about bad guy. 426 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,600 One of the guys was named Wolf. 427 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,600 Like his last name was Wolf, which in Spanish is Lobo. 428 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,240 So they keep like saying like, oh, he was right 429 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:40,240 because he said the name Lobo keeps coming up, but it was Wolf. 430 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:41,840 How was that helpful? 431 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,280 Was the guy Spanish? 432 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,920 It's not helpful at all, but it's a program that they had a target in mind 433 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,920 for what they wanted to do with the program, 434 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,760 but it wasn't helping them achieve that target. 435 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,160 And then like 99 times out of 100, you need to look at like satellite documents 436 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,000 to confirm what these guys are saying. 437 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,240 So like, why do you even need them to say anything 438 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,120 if you can just get the satellite to tell you that thing? 439 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:05,680 True. 440 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,560 Because they are probably hoping it could provide more intel than I guess with the satellite. 441 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,320 And they're still doing the studies that make sense. 442 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,480 But just to finish this off in 1995, as a result of the executive order 443 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,080 of one president, William J. Clinton, better known as Bill Clinton. 444 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,040 I don't know why they described him as William J. Clinton. 445 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,040 That name sounds so familiar. 446 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,120 He declassified all the materials pertaining to the SRI program, 447 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,200 as well as everything up to Stargate. 448 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,080 And because of that, there are over 13 million documents on the CIA website 449 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880 that have been declassified that you're allowed to root through 450 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,320 to see what's going on with this. 451 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,320 These are kind of the big ones everybody points to when they're saying 452 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,360 the remote viewing was successful in what it did. 453 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,120 These are our success. 454 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,560 So number one, Joe McGonigal claims that two of the Stargate 1984 455 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,960 with the Legion of Merit awards were providing information on 150 targets 456 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,040 that were unavailable from other sources. 457 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,440 In 1974, one remote viewer appeared to have correctly described an airfield 458 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,200 with a large gantry and crane at one end of the field. 459 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,760 The airfield at the given map coordinates was the Soviet nuclear testing area 460 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,600 at Semipelentinsk. 461 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,120 Yep, I'm familiar with that place. 462 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,680 A possible underground nuclear testing site. 463 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,800 In general, however, most of the receiver's data was incorrect 464 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,320 or could not be evaluated. 465 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,720 A remote viewer was tasked to locate a Soviet Tu-95 bomber, 466 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,800 which had crashed somewhere in Africa, 467 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,480 which he allegedly did within several miles of the actual wreckage. 468 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,200 Okay, but that still doesn't count as a hit, does it? 469 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,120 Your mileage may vary, yes. 470 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,200 Another assignment included trying to hunt down Gaddafi 471 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,440 before the 1986 bombing of Libya, but Gaddafi was not injured in the bombing. 472 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:53,360 In February of 1988, DIA asked where Marine Corps Colonel William Higgins 473 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,480 was being held in Lebanon, and a remote viewer stated that Higgins 474 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,520 was in a specific building in a specific South Lebanon village, 475 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,480 and a released hostage later said to have claimed 476 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,440 that Higgins had probably been in that building at that time. 477 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,160 In January of 1989, DOD, Department of Defense, was said to have asked 478 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:11,840 about Libyan chemical weapons work. 479 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,640 A remote viewer reported that ships named after either Hadoi or Kodawa 480 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,880 would sail from Tripoli to transport chemicals to an eastern Libyan port, 481 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,440 and reportedly a ship named Badado loaded an undetermined cargo in Tripoli 482 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,080 and brought to an eastern Libyan port. 483 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,760 Repetedly, a remote viewer saw that a KGB colonel 484 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,600 caught spying in South Africa had been smuggling information 485 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,560 using a pocket calculator containing a communication device. 486 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,080 It said that questioning along these lines by South Arabian intelligence 487 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,120 led to the spy cooperating and telling them that that was true. 488 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,880 During the Gulf War, remote viewers were reported to have suggested 489 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,200 the whereabouts of Iraq's Saddam Hussein, 490 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,720 though there was never an independent verification of the findings. 491 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,240 A unit was tasked to find plutonium in North Korea in 1994 492 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,800 and apparently without any notable success. 493 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640 And remote viewers were also said to have helped find Scud missiles 494 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,920 and secret biological and chemical warfare projects 495 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,560 and to have located and identified the purposes of tunnels 496 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,560 and extensive underground facilities. 497 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,640 Also a big one, it's not in this group, 498 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,720 but they were asked to help with the Iran hostage situation 499 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:20,480 that happened in the 1970s. 500 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,240 Apparently they had some success with it, 501 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,960 but I feel like Chelsea's gonna go over that in your episode, 502 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,760 but she might not. 503 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:26,560 I do, yeah. 504 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:27,360 Okay, good. 505 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:27,920 I do. 506 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:28,960 Now, I know what you're thinking, 507 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,880 and this is something I had to ask. 508 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,080 Is this still going on? 509 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,840 Yes, it all closed down technically through the government in 1995, 510 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,600 but they specifically talked about Science Application International Corp, 511 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,080 which you can still buy shares in today. 512 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,680 They're $93 a share. 513 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,040 It still exists. 514 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,080 In fact, they're still doing things like this for the government. 515 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,800 In 2014, the Office of Naval Research launched a four-year program 516 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,000 costing about 3.85 million to explore the use of premonition or intuition 517 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,560 which is popularly known as Sixth Sense, 518 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,600 or even a Spidey Sense in honor of the web-throwing superhero 519 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,960 among sailors and marines. 520 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,040 And Dr. Edwin May, who was involved fully in Project Stargate, 521 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,360 the former Stargate research head, 522 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,440 had continued to argue on behalf of ESP as a legitimate tool 523 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,360 for military and domestic intelligence 524 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,040 long after the program was shut down. 525 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,800 So they're at least still doing some quasi-paranormal research, 526 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,240 and who knows what else they're doing 527 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:26,320 because they're a private corporation, so we'll never... 528 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,160 Part of the government, right? 529 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,560 Exactly, and that means that we'll never be able to FOIA them 530 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,240 or know for sure what this company is doing. 531 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,160 Right. Why not invest though? 532 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,240 So that's the history of remote viewing in the US government. 533 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,240 Like I said, you can find so much of this on the CIA website 534 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,360 because it has all been publicly disclosed. 535 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,600 To finish this off, I thought I would pick 536 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,880 the strangest of the documents that is on this group 537 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,160 to read through with you. 538 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:52,880 Nice. 539 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,000 The title of this document, Mars Exploration. 540 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,080 May 22nd, 1984. 541 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,160 Perfect. I like it already. 542 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,840 Method of Site Acquisitions. 543 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,800 Sealed envelopes coupled with geographic coordinates. 544 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,560 The sealed envelope was given to the subject 545 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,160 immediately prior to the interview. 546 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,960 The envelope was not opened until after the interview. 547 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,200 In the envelope was a three by five card 548 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,560 with the following information. 549 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,960 The planet Mars, the time of interest 550 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,680 approximately one million years BC. 551 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,560 Selected geographic coordinates provided by the parties 552 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,120 requesting the information were verbally given 553 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,120 to the subject during the interview. 554 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,480 And this is getting into the interview. 555 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,640 All right now, using the information in the envelope 556 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,520 I've provided exclusively focusing your attention now. 557 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,720 Using the information in the envelope, 558 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:39,360 focus on 40.9 degrees North, 9.55 degrees West. 559 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:40,160 Subject. 560 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,000 I want to say it looks like a, I don't know, sort of looks. 561 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,960 I kind of got an oblique view of a pyramid or pyramid form. 562 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,000 It's very high. 563 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,480 It's kind of sitting in a large depressed area. 564 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,600 Monitor. All right. 565 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:54,480 Subject. 566 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,280 It's yellowish or ochre colored. 567 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,240 Monitor. All right. 568 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,880 Move in time to the time indicated in the envelope 569 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,200 I've provided you and describe what's happening. 570 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,080 Subject. 571 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,760 I'm tracking severe, severe clouds, more like dust, storm. 572 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,200 It's geological problem. 573 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,040 Seems to be like just a minute. 574 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,800 I've got to iron this out. 575 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,320 It's really weird. 576 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,200 Monitor. 577 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,760 Just report your raw perception at this time. 578 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,120 You're still early in the session. 579 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:19,920 Subject. 580 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,840 I'm looking at an after effect of a major geological point. 581 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,040 Geological problem. 582 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:25,520 Monitor. 583 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:25,840 Okay. 584 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,800 Go back in time before the geological problem. 585 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:29,520 Subject. 586 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,320 Total difference. 587 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,000 Before there's no, I don't know. 588 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:34,560 Oh, hell. 589 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,120 It's like mountains of dirt appear and then disappear. 590 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,480 When you go before, see large flat surfaces, very smooth angles, walls. 591 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:43,760 They're really large though. 592 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,520 I mean, they're megalithic. 593 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:46,080 Monitor. 594 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:46,640 All right. 595 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,400 At this period in time now, before the geologic activity, 596 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,720 look around in and around this area and see if you can find any activity. 597 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:55,120 Subject. 598 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,640 I'm seeing, it's like a perception of a shadow of people. 599 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,400 Very tall, thin. 600 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,520 It's only a shadow. 601 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,240 It's as if we're there and they're not. 602 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:05,680 Not there anymore. 603 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,160 Monitor. 604 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,240 Go back to a period of time where they are there. 605 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:09,600 Subject. 606 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,040 It's like I get a lot of static on a line and everything. 607 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,880 It's breaking up all the time. 608 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,520 Very fragmentary pieces. 609 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:18,240 Monitor. 610 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:19,360 Just report the raw data. 611 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,800 Don't try to put things together. 612 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,160 Just report the raw data. 613 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:22,880 Subject. 614 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,040 I just keep seeing very large people. 615 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,680 They appear thin and tall, but they're very large, 616 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,360 wearing some kind of strange clothes. 617 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,600 That's probably a good spot to stop. 618 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,440 Is that not so bizarre? 619 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,760 These weird things and then they ask this guy, 620 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,520 they ask him a few weird places. 621 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,480 They ask him to look into Atlantis and then this Mars one I find so bizarre. 622 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,600 Like he saw people on Mars a million BC. 623 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:46,480 Observations. 624 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,280 The coordinates they're giving, I know you're reading it, 625 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,280 but it seems like they're giving, are they looking for something? 626 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,080 It almost seems like they're looking for something. 627 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,480 At one point he says, yeah, that's correct. 628 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,680 Let's move here. 629 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,040 And they're moving to very specific coordinates. 630 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:05,920 It's almost like- 631 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,880 It's really weird. 632 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,760 And I do know for a fact, the first coordinates they picked are Sedonia on Mars, 633 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,760 which is where the face is and there's a few different objects on Mars. 634 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,000 Objects that always pique conspiracy minded people's interests. 635 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,840 I'm glad you knew that. 636 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,880 And that's specifically where they saw those tall creatures. 637 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,280 That's very bizarre. 638 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,320 To be fair, Ed Daines is in charge of Project Stargate while this is all going on. 639 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,440 And he's a crazy man to the extent where he was going to write a tell-all novel 640 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,560 about Project Stargate in 1992 prior to it all being declassified. 641 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,760 Like him and a psychic by the name of Morehouse had gone in together to write a book 642 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,720 on everything highly classified they were doing. 643 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,480 Like very illegal beforehand. 644 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,280 Like this guy is- 645 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,880 Yeah, they probably had like non-disclosure agreements. 646 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,800 And yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit about, 647 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,960 because Ingo Swann doesn't come up a lot in this, 648 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,720 but a book I was reading on retrocausation that I found very interesting 649 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:09,120 is Ingo Swann is actually a proponent that he wouldn't use astral projection 650 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,520 to get information on the locations he was getting. 651 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,200 In fact, he believed he could actually only remote view 652 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,200 when he would later on in life be given further information 653 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,040 about the sites that he was looking at. 654 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,400 So he believed that he had retrocausation. 655 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,760 Basically, he would be stealing memories from the future of what he was seeing, 656 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,760 which I find very interesting. 657 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,080 That is interesting because technically there is times of construct. 658 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:35,200 Yeah. 659 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,160 So technically it would be a true thing that you could do. 660 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:38,400 Yeah. 661 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,000 I would say that time's a flat circle, but a circle is already flat. 662 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:43,040 People keep saying that. 663 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,000 I hear that a lot, but it's an incorrect statement. 664 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,000 You could say time is a flat sphere. 665 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,000 It is not a flat circle. 666 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,960 It's two dimensional, they mean. 667 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:53,360 Yeah. 668 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,640 All you need to say is time is a circle, not a flat circle. 669 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,080 It's already implied. 670 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960 But that's where I'm going to lead off my story today. 671 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,520 That is the history of remote viewing within the US government itself. 672 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:06,720 Is it still ongoing? 673 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,400 Hell, it might not. It might be, but it is in the private sector now. 674 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,360 And privatized. 675 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:11,840 Yeah. 676 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,680 As far as remote viewing goes, I believe in it. 677 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,760 I think it's definitely something. 678 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,880 I think there's something there in the program as it was designed for. 679 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,840 I don't know. 680 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,560 They definitely didn't get what they were looking for, 681 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,200 just because what we were talking about through the episode, 682 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,960 where they were predicting things that didn't come true until later. 683 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,280 And then at what point do you use that intel? 684 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,440 Or do you know what intel to use to go where to prevent things? 685 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,920 Like, yeah, like 65 percent. 686 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:42,960 How is that going to help you? 687 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,840 And then even what are they right about? 688 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,000 Because they be asked to describe a location. 689 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,160 Are they right about where the road is? 690 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,640 Are they right about where the documents are that you want? 691 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,400 Like, what are they actually right about? 692 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,240 And like for the hostages, which we'll talk again in the next episode, 693 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,920 it all comes to light and they're like, oh, I predicted that. 694 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,840 And like, yeah, so what? 695 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,440 You didn't prevent anything. 696 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:06,720 You didn't save anybody. 697 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:08,160 Everybody could have died. 698 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,600 And like, and then what? 699 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,360 You couldn't have prevented anything. 700 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,640 You didn't save anybody. 701 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,560 It obviously didn't get to the point where it was actually getting any intel 702 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,160 or anything that we know of. 703 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,800 So there's definitely something there. 704 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,160 Even if there is something there, it's not useful. 705 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,680 No, it's not useful at all. 706 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,760 And I think at the end of the day, that's the most important thing 707 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,760 that we've drawn from these stories, is even if their psychic abilities 708 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,160 are correct, they can't use it for anything. 709 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:34,560 Yeah. 710 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,320 And then you get to the fact, which is just a technicality of psychics 711 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,440 where they say you can take different timelines and stuff like that, 712 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,160 in which case it might not even have the same outcome. 713 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,280 It's just like psychic. 714 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,000 So like you are going to do this in the future and either it happens 715 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:48,880 or it doesn't happen. 716 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,440 And like at what point you're like, ah, they predicted it. 717 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,400 Like what impact did that actually have on your life? 718 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,720 Like nothing, because you got there eventually. 719 00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:58,960 But hey, let's not spoil it all here. 720 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,560 Because we're going to do another episode on this entire subject. 721 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,280 Yeah. 722 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,560 So maybe there's more to this entire thing, hey? 723 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:07,120 Huh? 724 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:07,760 Perhaps. 725 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:08,320 Huh? 726 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,040 Perhaps. 727 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,480 I guess we will see you on the next episode to find out. 728 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,960 And hey, you still need to wait and see what those coordinates 729 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:15,920 were I gave you. 730 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,280 So I'm excited to see. 731 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,760 Thank you all for listening and we will see you next week. 732 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:20,240 Bye. 733 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,520 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Frame. 734 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,440 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow, 735 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,640 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 736 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,720 Also, please, if possible, leave a five-star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 737 00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:47,840 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 738 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,280 I bet you we are there. 739 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,000 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 740 00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:00,800 us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringeatgmail.com. 741 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:24,640 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.