1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,800 Chelsea, can I bog you down in a little bit of existential environmental dread? 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:06,360 I hate it, but yeah. 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,320 Okay. Well, this is a guardian story. 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,080 You're going to hear it later on. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,560 So I might as well get that out of the way. 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Scientists sound alarm as US regulators, new forever chemicals definition, 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,320 leaves a little bit to be desired. 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,560 So we're just going to read this story as we go along. 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,000 If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,960 The EPA Environmental Agency Department responsible for protecting the public 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:36,080 from toxic substances is working on a new definition of PFAS, 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,880 which is a forever chemical. 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,440 Have you heard that term before, Chelsea? 14 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,080 I have never heard that. 15 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:44,760 No, not even nuclear waste, I believe, is forever. 16 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,480 Well, no, and nothing is forever. 17 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:52,000 It's kind of a misnomer in that it's a forever for us chemical 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,360 in that it will be there for thousands of years. 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,080 So for all intents and purposes, it's there for all of our lives. 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,240 OK, that makes sense. 21 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,160 And then all of our children's lives and all of their children's lives. 22 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,080 So why not just call it a forever chemical? 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,280 OK, I get it. 24 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,720 And never heard that term before. 25 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,560 But oh, then you are going to be just so saddened by my water episode 26 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,960 that's coming up very soon. OK. Anyhow, PFAS are polyfluoroalkyls. 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,360 Substances, that's that's what PFAS stands for. Of course. 28 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,880 They're kind of plastic and the EPA has come up with a new definition 29 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,960 for what a PFAS is. 30 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:31,360 It's established by the Office of Pollution Prevention and Toxics 31 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,520 is not only at odds with much of the scientific world, 32 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,160 but is narrower than is used by other EPA department. 33 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,160 Among other uses, the narrower definition excludes chemicals 34 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,680 in the pharmaceuticals and pesticides that are generally defined as PFAS. 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,760 The EPA also cited the narrower definition in December 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,920 when it declined to take action on some PFAS contaminations found in North Carolina. 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:03,160 PFAS or her or polyfluoroalkyl substances are a class of about 12,000 compounds 38 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,200 most frequently used to make products, water, stain and grease resistant. 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,960 The biggest contributor to this actually prior to the last like 10 years or so was 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,360 Heflon because it was basically resistant to everything very, very stick free. 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,520 And yet terrible. Anyhow, 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,000 they are in thousands of products across dozens of industries now 43 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,120 and have been linked to cancer, birth defects, decreased immunity, 44 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,360 high cholesterol, kidney disease and a range of other serious health problems. 45 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,840 They're double. What else is in it? 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,840 They're just plastics. That's what they are. 47 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,520 So for all intents and purposes, they're just plastic. 48 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,120 Oh, my gosh. I know that Teflon's bad for you if it like starts 49 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,120 chipping or anything, if it gets into your face. 50 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,880 More so actually if you there's a Teflon factory in your neighborhood. 51 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,760 Oh, yeah. 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,800 And like plastics, I know if you leave a plastic water bottle in your car 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,000 and the water gets hot, then that's not only it. 54 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,600 Lululemon clothes have PFOS in them. 55 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,840 What? Yeah, it makes things like sweat resistant. 56 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,120 It wicks away the. Oh, my gosh. 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,560 I would have never thought it's in clothing, which. 58 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,840 Yeah. And John Alver actually did a great episode on PFOS, 59 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,480 but that's not what we're focusing on today. 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,800 It's more so a response by the EPA. 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,320 OK, OK, OK. 62 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,000 So many things you wouldn't expect to have plastic in them, 63 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,040 have PFOS in them, because it's meant to be 64 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,360 stain resistant, water resistant, things like that. 65 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,960 I wasn't expecting clothes, but it's a good thing I can't afford Lululemon. 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,360 Yeah. Oh, good. 67 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,960 OK, the discussion within the EPA comes as the agency 68 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,080 faces increased pressure to largely restrict the entire chemical class 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,520 and critics say the change benefits chemical manufacturers, 70 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,960 the Department of Defense and industry. 71 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:45,760 There's a real difference in the definition 72 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,200 that industry uses and what the international scientific community uses. 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,840 And unfortunately, the definition I see the EPA 74 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,880 toxic office using is a lot more like industry said Linda. 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,720 The didn't immediately respond to the questions, but an agency document 76 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,280 obtained by the Guardian states the new definition focuses on PFOS, 77 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,960 believed to be of the highest concern based on their persistence 78 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,600 and potential for presence in the environment and human exposure. 79 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,440 Researchers say the international scientific community 80 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,080 has been engaged in a debate over how to define PFOS 81 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,520 that's focused on chemical structure. 82 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,520 PFOS are called forever chemicals because their fluorinated atoms 83 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,600 prevent them from fully breaking down. 84 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,240 The most widely used inclusive definition and proposed by the organization 85 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,640 for economic cooperation and development, the OECD, defines any chemical 86 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,520 within the fluorinated carbon atoms as a PFOS. 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,760 That could include tens of thousands of chemicals on the market. 88 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,680 The EPA toxic office, however, wrote a working definition 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,560 that calls for at least two adjacent carbon atoms 90 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,720 where one carbon is fully fluorinated and the other is at least partially fluorinated. 91 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,560 It covers about 6500 PFOS and the EPA is using that definition 92 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,680 in its recently introduced national testing strategy, 93 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:07,040 which serves as a roadmap in an attempt to rein in PFOS pollution. 94 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,520 Needless to say, and I think I can end that there, it's a very long article. 95 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,640 If you want to read more, please go look at it. 96 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,160 Dodd the title earlier on. 97 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,360 It's in Guardian. 98 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,000 Less restriction on industry, which is going to just kind of fuck with all of our waterways. 99 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,040 It just, I don't know why I'm surprised at this point. 100 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,200 I just, I don't understand how for the sake of money 101 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,200 and industries making money on this, we don't give a shit about it 102 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,120 and the repercussions that it has. 103 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:38,360 I have people in my life, I'm not going to say who who fully falls into a group of 104 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,800 it's listen to what makes sense for your life, 105 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,760 not which will be correct, just ignoring what you don't deem to be important. 106 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,160 And unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there. 107 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,120 I can see that because it's the easy answer. 108 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,440 It's the most convenient. 109 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,760 You want to look a certain way. 110 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,320 You want to live the easiest lifestyle, a lifestyle you want to live. 111 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,800 It's easy to turn a blind eye. 112 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,880 But I really feel like there should be more responsibility 113 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:09,080 onto these corporations that are doing this, but there's not because people are willing 114 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,320 to pay money for this. 115 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,160 So they're profiting off of it. 116 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,120 And that's actually a very weird part of like, we live in a free market. 117 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,400 At least that's for the most part, we live in a free market economy. 118 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,680 It is capitalist, but I'm going to avoid that part for the most part right now. 119 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,680 When do you buy a product in a free market economy? 120 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,120 What should actually be accounted for when you're buying it is not only 121 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,680 what has gone into making it up to that point. 122 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,120 It should be the entire life cycle of the product. 123 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,640 And we just completely disregard that in our economy. 124 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,720 I don't understand you. Absolutely. 125 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,840 Maybe with pop cans, we figured it out that we charged another five cents 126 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:45,800 so that we can recycle them outside of that. 127 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,520 No, it's just up until you're done using it. 128 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,080 That's the life cycle of the product that we have accounted for in our price. 129 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,200 It's not something that everything after that. 130 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,480 No, it's just, yeah, it's something that like it gets destroyed. 131 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:58,480 And it's not. 132 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,440 I mean, you hear about it, but it's not something that affects your life. 133 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,320 So it's hard to do it. 134 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,600 And then you can just easily ignore it. 135 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,520 And that's really how we set up the market, which is it is. 136 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:15,080 In my opinion, there should be more onus on a corporation that is, you know, 137 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,240 profiting off of this because people are going to people are going to turn a blind eye. 138 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:20,600 It's an ugly truth. 139 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,480 And people don't want to see that. 140 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,440 People also sorry to bring this up. 141 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,160 People also don't want to see where their meat and animal products are coming from. 142 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,840 It's easy to turn a blind eye when you're not working in that industry. 143 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,840 I wouldn't even see people are going to maintain being misinformed. 144 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,560 They're going to maintain being ignorant or not knowing what goes into it. 145 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,880 Ridley avoided. 146 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,600 Well, not even readily avoided. 147 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,520 These industries actively avoid people finding out about issues. 148 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,960 Like you've heard about a carbon footprint, right? 149 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,520 You know, but that for, I believe we've talked about it, but I cannot remember 150 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,160 right now. So let us find out you. Well, British Petroleum. 151 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,400 Yes, that was what it was. 152 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Petroleum is the company who actively put forward that as an issue to actively say 153 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,960 that it's not our fault. It's the consumer's fault. 154 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,640 When we completely misinformed the consumer and they make more of a carbon 155 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,000 footprint than we ever could. Yeah. That we ever could. 156 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,400 So that's that. Oh, God, that's 157 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,520 infuriating. 158 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,120 Actually, I'm getting angry at life. 159 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,680 And it's all it's all these corporations, right? 160 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,480 That should be having more responsibility, but they make all this money. 161 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,320 So it doesn't matter. 162 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,800 It's fully the problem, too, with a free market. 163 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,080 Quote unquote. 164 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,160 I will explain this when we get to the episode that I want to talk about it on. 165 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,720 That's going to be my water episode that's coming up very soon. 166 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,080 It's also buyer beware. 167 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,400 They again put the onus on. 168 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,880 Caviar import. Yeah. Yeah. 169 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,080 Consumers, it's not anything to do. 170 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,400 They are just free of any obligation. 171 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,560 That is exactly what BP did, too. 172 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,920 I was like, oh, it's the consumer's fault, not our fault. 173 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,080 Yeah. We're just a corporation that does this thing. 174 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,840 It's really anything because people have 175 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,040 they're making it so that people have to be so informed. 176 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,320 Do not you literally can't do anything. 177 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,600 You can't do anything else in your life if you want to stay fully informed. 178 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,400 And they also want you to be fully a consumer as well. 179 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,680 But you can't do it's not just about that. 180 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,200 But at one point, if people want to live their life, just like what you're talking 181 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:22,440 about, you have to be, you know, will fully ignorant to things that are going on 182 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,760 to go along and be like, well, I want to wear a lululemon. 183 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,000 So I'm just not going to listen to anything else. 184 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,760 You had no idea about the PFAS thing with lululemons. 185 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,000 You do not have to be actively ignorant. 186 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,800 You just don't have to look exactly. 187 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,280 That to me is actively ignorant. Or did I use it wrong? 188 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,800 That's not actively into it. 189 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,360 That's not actively OK. 190 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Close, but not the same thing. 191 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,000 I just used it wrong. Yes. Fair enough. 192 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,880 Anyhow, enough about this. 193 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,480 It's going to be a long episode, so we should probably get into it. 194 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,480 Let's let's cue music. 195 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,280 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 196 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:13,040 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the first podcast to bring to you 197 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,320 the idea of a snack break. 198 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,680 Now, we will be introducing this along the way. 199 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:21,080 And it brought a delicious bacon cheeses, a Canadian delicacy. 200 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,320 Name the name, name the brand. 201 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,080 Oh, yes, from Hawkins. Best one. 202 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,280 To guide me through on my snack break way. 203 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,280 And I just noticed no podcasts have tried this, so we're going to try it out. 204 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:41,760 Anyhow, we were talking about Richard Doty, Mr. Richie D, Dickie D or Richard Doty. 205 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,920 Chelsea's talked about him before and we're going to continue on our way from here. 206 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Yeah, so I'm just going to jump right in. In case you need a reminder, 207 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,920 I mean, you could just skip back one, listen to it again and come back here. 208 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,560 And then we'll just be running into the same episode. 209 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,160 I'm going to do you solid kindness. 210 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:06,760 Richard Doty, where we left off, Richie D, he is a dickhead to put it bluntly. 211 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,280 He's a guy he has to add 20 year career as a special agent in the Air Force 212 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:18,280 Air Force Office of Special Investigations at FOSI, as I'm going to be referring to. 213 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,320 I can't remember how much in this part of the episode. 214 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,640 Stationed at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 215 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,240 who worked as counterintelligence and disinformation to discredit 216 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,360 specific to this episode UFO researchers. 217 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,000 We don't know what else he was disinforming about. 218 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,840 All we care about is UFOs in this episode. 219 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:44,160 Last episode, we touched on Bill Moore and poor Paul Benowitz. 220 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,440 That was such a hard story to get through. 221 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,320 I feel really bad for him. 222 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,560 But this is the next story. 223 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:52,800 We have whole new things for you to be frustrated about. 224 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:58,880 So what else did Richard Doty, Richie D, have his hand in or supposedly had his hand in? 225 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,240 Next thing I'm going to touch on is the Majestic 12. 226 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,960 And if you haven't heard of Majestic 12 before, 227 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,160 this is not the episode to find out about it because I'm giving the cold notes on it. 228 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,640 I will give you just enough so that you know some things on it. 229 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,160 And this story starts when documentary producer Jamie Chandra, 230 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,200 you've not heard of Jamie before. 231 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,320 I'm not sure if Jamie is a boy or a girl, so I'm just going to say they 232 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,920 receives a mysterious envelope dropped through his mail slot. 233 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,040 Envelope had at... 234 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:30,880 We're dendering Chelsea. 235 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:31,720 Did I do it? 236 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,640 They received a mysterious envelope dropped through her mail slot. 237 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:42,320 A gendered envelope had a New Mexico stamp and contained a role of undeveloped photo film. 238 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,680 New Mexico. 239 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,160 That's where Doty was. 240 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,920 I can hear you eating your cheese. 241 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,240 Yeah, we're on snack break. 242 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:53,760 It's not a break anymore. 243 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:54,840 So not knowing... 244 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,840 The crunchiest of all cheeses, the shitty puffy ones, they're almost crunchless. 245 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,840 Not knowing what to do with the mysterious film, 246 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:09,720 Chandra takes it with him to dinner with his friend Bill fucking Moore. 247 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,480 I can't even at this point that this guy's connected to too much stuff. 248 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,400 They don't even eat dinner at this point. 249 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,600 They open this package and they're like, dinner's over. 250 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,600 We need to go develop the film immediately. 251 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,760 Long story short, the pictures were of eight pages of classified documents, 252 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:32,360 some of which detail that President Truman had appointed a committee of scientists, 253 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,920 government officials, and military men making the Majestic 12. 254 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,600 They figure out just how to deal with the Roswell crash and any other alien incursions 255 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,600 that might occur in the future, essentially the original men in black. 256 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,080 These are the Majestic 12 documents. 257 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,840 And so of course, more along with ufologists, 258 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,560 Jamie Chandra and Stanton Friedman circulated them. 259 00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:59,800 Stanton Friedman was, what was he? 260 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,120 He was some sort of like important scientist. 261 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,640 We talked about him on the first episode as well. 262 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,560 He came up in Project Blue Book as well as in the first episode. 263 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,560 And he's like a legitimate guy. 264 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,520 He has a super high science degree of something. 265 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,560 Yeah, he has a physics degree somewhere. 266 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:17,640 Physics, yes, physics. It is physics. 267 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:24,520 According to these Majestic 12 documents, members of the original MJ12 included Dr. 268 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Vannevar Bush, an inventor, engineer, and head of the U.S. 269 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:34,840 Office of Scientific Research and Development during World War II, retired Admiral 270 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:41,640 Sidney Sewers, first director of the CIA, and Dr. Donald Menzel, theoretical astrophysicist 271 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,520 and avid UFO debunker, among no other people, because I think there were 12. 272 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:52,520 Bill Moore had actually first learned about Project Aquarius, if you remember back to the 273 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:58,760 last episode, and the shadow organization known as MJ12 from the documents that Rick 274 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,040 Doty had showed him. 275 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,120 So there's even conflicting information within the lore around this. 276 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,040 As I told you, there would be. 277 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,360 Rick Doty conflicts himself a lot because that's what liars do. 278 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Essentially, the Majestic 12 were a high-level panel of powerful individuals who oversaw 279 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,880 Project Aquarius that Doty had shown government documents about to Moore as well. 280 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:28,200 Doty, in a recent interview, told George Knapp that UFO investigations continued under the 281 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,320 Defense Intelligence Agency after Project Blue Boat shut down. 282 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,640 Oh no, that's a good George. 283 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,760 He actually interviews him, which I'll try to kind of get into. 284 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:39,960 I don't blame him. 285 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,080 I don't blame George Knapp for wanting to interview him. 286 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,440 George Knapp is awesome. 287 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,720 I wouldn't see him turning down an interview with a tritic face. 288 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,040 Not sorry, he is. 289 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,920 Doty is adamant that he has no part of the MJ12 documents. 290 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,200 However, he was investigated by the FBI in relation to their circulation, 291 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,040 and they said people had claimed Doty had given them to him. 292 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,640 And he was clear that he didn't put these documents out. 293 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,040 So who even knows at this point? 294 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,320 Personally, like, you can't trust the thing that he's got. 295 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,400 To be fair, who was in charge of the FBI at this point is J. Edgar Hoover. 296 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,240 And it really depends on who he wants on his shit list and who he doesn't. 297 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:27,320 Anyhow, J. Edgar Hoover basically ran the FBI as his personal shit list for a long time. 298 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,120 So if you weren't on a shit list, you didn't really care that much. 299 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:36,200 If you were on a shit list, oh boy, did they send every piece of information and power they had to 300 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,120 destroy you to do it. 301 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,200 So possibly just not on the shit list. 302 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,600 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and do something maybe not a lot of podcasts do. 303 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:51,560 If I can find it, I will be placing here, in editing, a conversation between RTD and George NAP. 304 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,160 If I cannot, I will be reenacting the interview now. 305 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,480 George NAP says, 306 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,760 I don't want to go into too much detail about MJ12, 307 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,000 but you've been a link to that story and Bill Moore for a long time. 308 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,240 You mentioned, you made a comment in passing earlier today that you think there's 309 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,400 legitimate information in there. 310 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,200 J. Dodie says, 311 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,720 Yes, I'm 90% sure that there's legitimate information. 312 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,320 These documents were created based on actual documents. 313 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,400 The documents that were released weren't and the Air Force covered itself. 314 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,960 The government cover itself by saying these aren't legitimate documents. 315 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,000 Not the information contained in it was not. 316 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,400 Yeah. 317 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,520 Can you say whether there is an organization like that? 318 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,480 J. Dodie says, 319 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,000 Yes, there was. 320 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,720 NAP says, Do you think that still exists? 321 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:40,680 I'm not sure. 322 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,520 I'm positive it exists. 323 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:42,920 No. 324 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,200 I am sure. 325 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,080 J. Dodie says, 326 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:45,960 Not I'm not. 327 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,760 He is sure. 328 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,120 He is definitely sure. 329 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:49,720 I'm positive it exists. 330 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,560 I know that when Project Blue Book, and it was briefed in the program in 1979, 331 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,360 and one of the things they mentioned in the report in the briefing was that the Air Force 332 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:05,880 ceased its investigation of UFOs in 1969, based on the Condon Report. 333 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:11,560 They continued a classified investigative program, which intelligence officers were involved in. 334 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,800 And when they needed a depository for the information from Project Blue Book, 335 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,680 they were looking for an agency that wanted it, and the DIA was only 10 years old. 336 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,480 They raised their hand and said, We'll take it. 337 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:29,480 And at that time, and during my time in, I know, DIA had a repository for the information. 338 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,200 Whether it still does today, I don't know. 339 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:32,920 NAP says, 340 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:38,600 You just heard a presentation of our stuff about DIA having a study that was ongoing. 341 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,280 There was a collection effort. 342 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,760 Makes sense that they would collect that information, and when there's an encounter 343 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,400 with national security implications. 344 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,960 Our weapons or nukes or something like that. 345 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:50,520 Dodie. 346 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:51,320 Absolutely. 347 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:51,720 Yeah. 348 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,400 Any threat to national security, the government's going to investigate, 349 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,320 and they're going to collect information. 350 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,880 They're going to do thorough investigations. 351 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,120 They're going to interview the people, collect all the data possible out there, 352 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,840 and that has to go someplace to DIA. 353 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,800 So that's Majestic 12. 354 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,240 It's literally the least I could do on the Majestic 12. 355 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,760 That is, you got what Majestic 12 was, right? 356 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:17,240 I think. 357 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:17,560 Yeah. 358 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,520 And Majestic 12 is a conspiracy in itself. 359 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,400 So maybe in the future, we do a Majestic 12 episode too. 360 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,600 It would be good. 361 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,760 It's renowned to have been debunked. 362 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,800 A fake document. 363 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:36,280 However, there are people out there that are steadfast that these are legitimate document. 364 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,720 What's his face is one of them. 365 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,520 Stanton Freeman, 100% thinks that this is a legitimate document that was linked. 366 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,280 They did go to the government and were able to find these documents somehow in their time. 367 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,360 I have seen a steadfast breakdown that these documents are not dated correctly or even 368 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,240 like wordy correctly in the corners. 369 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:57,480 So. 370 00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:58,520 Yes. 371 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,960 We could do an, we should do an episode on the Majestic 12. 372 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:08,200 They do have them in government record and they say bogus across them because the government 373 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,080 investigated them, of course, which just adds fuel to the file with UFO investigators that 374 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,840 they wrote bogus across them. 375 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,360 There is a lot more to it. 376 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,320 I just did the very basic of what it is. 377 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,920 I think I got that across. 378 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:27,640 So what I want you to take from it was Majestic 12 was the government covertly still continuing 379 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,640 to investigate UFOs. 380 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,640 Dodie absolutely denies having any involvement in this. 381 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,800 This honestly says Dodie to everybody who comes in contact with it. 382 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,160 And like I just said, the document is widely believed to be a fake. 383 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,560 Stanton Freeman, however, continues to assert that he believes they're real. 384 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,920 I mean, who nobody else is so renownly known to be faking government documents like Dodie. 385 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,520 It's Dodie for sure. 386 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,080 Which brings me to Linda Moulton Howe, my favorite. 387 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,600 UFOs sweet her. 388 00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,480 I love her. 389 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:05,480 She is an investigative journalist who started out investigating cattle mutilations and just 390 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,840 kind of went from there. 391 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,920 In this episode, if you didn't gather this, I'm talking about 392 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,680 inactions that Richard Dodie had within the UFO community. 393 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,480 The first was Bill Moore in the first episode and Paul Benowitz. 394 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,160 This episode Majestic 12 and now we're on to Linda Moulton Howe. 395 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:29,800 Though Linda's research into the cattle mutilation phenomenon earned her a deal with HBO for a UFO 396 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:36,760 documentary and it also struck a chord with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. 397 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,160 I did read an article, I don't know where, so I'm just like freeballing it here, 398 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:48,760 that the government was using these weird helicopters to investigate animal exposure 399 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:54,280 to nuclear radiation in certain areas as far as it goes to cattle mutilations. 400 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,480 I can't remember where I read that, but I just wanted to put it up there. 401 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:04,680 The amount of radiation that was put out into the world into the 50s to the 70s-ish? 402 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Yeah, I'd never actually... 403 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,560 Like they wanted to see the impact. 404 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,360 Yeah, I'd never actually heard that theory put forth, so I think it's legitimate. 405 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,960 And if they're testing things like that, you wouldn't think that they want to know 406 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:21,560 because black helicopters are something that are tied to the cattle mutilation phenomenon. 407 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,040 So definitely if they're doing something like that, they probably want to shut someone like Linda 408 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,320 Moulton Howe. But that's just an aside really. 409 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:35,240 What we're talking about here is Richard Doty who invites Linda Moulton Howe to Kirtland Air Force 410 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:42,840 Base where he discloses to Linda that aliens do exist and that the US government has been 411 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:50,040 in contact with them. He shows her as he is famous for official government documents that 412 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:56,920 outline mankind's contact with aliens at Roswell, the existence of a living extraterrestrial 413 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,760 survivor at the crash there, and the mind-bending revelation that these aliens had genetically 414 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,680 engineered humanity and sent spiritual leaders like Jesus Christ to guide us in our evolution. 415 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:14,440 Doty promised, I'm sorry, yeah, he showed Linda these documents or he told her he showed her. 416 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:22,040 He was famous for forging government documents. So Doty promises Linda footage of UFO crashes 417 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:28,120 and landings of aliens both deceased and living and he suggested he might be able to arrange 418 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:33,240 a meeting between Howe and this extraterrestrial guest of the government. However, they never 419 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:39,880 made good on their promises and HBO cancelled Howe's project. I like her. I really like her, 420 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,000 just like I like Paul Benowitz. Linda Moulton Howe is still out there. She actually took this 421 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,520 information public. She's really good getting documents to back up who people are who are 422 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,560 giving her information. And if you're someone like that looking for that, Doty fits the bill. He can 423 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:02,200 give you the documentation, say what he's saying is correct and legit. He had government documents 424 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,640 that he was allowed to back them up. Richard Doty denies that this meeting ever occurred with Linda 425 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:13,560 Moulton Howe. That's kind of how that ends, unfortunately. Did Linda, has Linda ever commented 426 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,040 on this relationship? She's famously talked about it. She talks about it in miragement. This is just 427 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,960 something that is known to have happened. It's documented in a variety of places and she talks 428 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:30,200 about it. He says no, I would probably take her word over for kiddies. Yeah, that's Linda Moulton 429 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:37,640 Howe. It's not a huge part, but she all of these are major things in the UFO community. As I 430 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,960 recapped about six different times in this episode, we have all Benowitz, which is linked to the 431 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:52,920 Dulce UFO case. We have Gilmore, who has written numerous books who have shaped the way we think 432 00:24:52,920 --> 00:25:00,200 about not only the Bermuda Triangle, which is weird to think, one person's book threw that much 433 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:09,080 mystery around a triangle in nature. Roswell. And he has gone on record saying that he was 434 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,240 fed this information by Richard Doty. We have, what else do we have? The Majestic 12 documents, 435 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:21,800 and we have Linda Moulton Howe also coming forward saying that she was fed same information, 436 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:28,120 basically that we saw Bill Moore giving to Paul Benowitz. It's basically the same stuff. 437 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:33,880 Just to recap what we're dealing here with, I'm sure there's much more that we don't know about. 438 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:41,720 In 2019, Doty was invited to speak at UFO Megacon, a large UFO conference in Laughlin, Nevada. In 439 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:48,360 his presentation, he acknowledged participating in surveillance of UFO groups and in disseminating 440 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:55,400 false information. Doty maintains that his interest in the UFO subject is legitimate and that he is 441 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:02,120 now free to speak about certain programs he saw while in the military, including during a stint in 442 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:09,480 Nevada's Area 51 military base. Yeah. In regards to that, he also claims that he worked at Area 51 443 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,680 and knows Bob Lazar, which is a whole other thing. Yeah. And at least as far as we know, 444 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,440 for most people who claim that they're outside of their government-timed confidentiality agreement, 445 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:26,760 it's not as soon as you're done with the government. Yeah. Which is also super weird for me that he's 446 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:33,240 now talking about it. Outside of him is pretty much just deathbed confessions. 100%. You bring up a 447 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,720 very good point. You're not going to see anyone talking like this so freely. It's not like you 448 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,720 get out of the government and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I can talk about everything now. 449 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:48,520 Super weird. And just because the ball's rolling, the Costa Rica balls are rolling down the hill to 450 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:54,600 hit the bowling pins. For a perfect strike. Yeah. What happened to Bill Moore, you ask? At a 1989 451 00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:01,400 MUFON conference, Moore claimed that he had been engaged in a disinformation activities against, 452 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,600 it was bad English, but I'm just going to keep going. All Bennewitz and on behalf of the Air Force 453 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:13,160 Office of Special Investigations and literally he's not done anything in the UFO community since he 454 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:19,400 came out and said that yes, he was involved in it. Where is Rick Doty now? He's living his life as 455 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,600 a normal police officer in some state. I can't remember. I didn't write it down for some reason. 456 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:32,840 You can find him doing a lot of interviews now, which drives me nuts. Why people are interviewing 457 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:39,560 him now about all over the place. I mean, we could probably get him if we wanted to. I don't want to. 458 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:48,120 Who said Dr. Guy? Oh, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. What's that? I'm not a particular 459 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:54,760 fan of him. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. One second here. He hosts the show on Gaia TV now. 460 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,400 Oh, there he is. I'm looking at a picture of him. What's your name? Steven Greer. Steven Greer. Thank 461 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:07,560 you. Steven Greer has interviewed him a lot on Gaia TV. Apparently Steven Greer has a big show 462 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:13,720 on Gaia. He's interviewed Rick Doty a lot. A lot of people. He's out there. He's just out there in 463 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:22,360 the UFO community now. Is he or Steven Greer just fucking weird because he is? He is. He is a, what's 464 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:27,800 the word for it, fearmonger? I don't know. What's the word for fearmonger? Did you come up with 465 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,080 the word for fearmonger? No, no, no. That's what he is. He likes to spout a lot of fear and I don't 466 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,280 like that. Which is really weird for somebody who has a medical license. Yeah. He's been interviewed 467 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:44,600 by him on Gaia. George Knapp has been interviewing him. He's just out there now. A lot of people 468 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,320 are just interviewing him. I hate this guy. Why people are interviewing him like, oh, you're in 469 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,120 the government. You're disinformation. You much know so much. What makes you think he's telling 470 00:28:54,120 --> 00:29:00,040 you anything that's the truth? He's made a career online. He's fucking done. How would you know he's 471 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,480 done? Yeah, I don't get it. Surprisingly, they probably told him during his time with the government 472 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:11,400 to say, oh yeah, I'm done. Don't worry. Yeah. At some point. I don't get it. And you can find more 473 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,440 interviews with him now and you could when he was putting out this different information stuff. So 474 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,960 it is just beyond me. I don't even have words for this. Why he's still out there giving interviews. 475 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,480 He's all over the place talking about UFOs and ETs and so on. And I just can't seem to connect the 476 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,920 dots together as to why anyone's willing to interview him at this point and put any stock 477 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:39,240 into what he's saying at all. I mean, I get George Knapp. I wouldn't interview him. No, I wouldn't 478 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,000 interview him. Trust George Knapp to at least do a good job with that because I trust George Knapp. 479 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,880 He's the best of the Georges on this coast. Yeah, he is. He's really good. Just like without a doubt. 480 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:56,200 It's like I love Linda Moulton Howe, but look where he got Linda Moulton Howe. Nowhere. Yeah, 481 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,160 but to be fair with Linda Moulton Howe style, it makes sense for her to get somebody like a dirty. 482 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,560 Yeah, it does. And then you just like. Also everybody just so that we're all on the same page. 483 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,760 Linda Moulton Howe does do a live YouTube broadcast every Thursday night on YouTube. I was just 484 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,400 trying to think of her name. I think it is just Linda Moulton Howe. Yeah, I subscribe to it. So 485 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:21,160 it pops up every Wednesday. It's actually a decent time. I'm PST. It's usually around like 6, 7 p.m. 486 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:27,400 Yeah. And she has interesting guests. I would say they're all at least on par with the idea of Doty's 487 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,680 story, which is why it's so believable. And I mentioned that with her because she asked for 488 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:38,200 credentials for sharing stories. And Richard Doty would have been able to provide that with his 489 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:44,600 documents. It just the whole story is so convoluted. I hope that I got it across. This could have been a 490 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:50,520 very long episode, but I just wanted to do get to the meat and bones of the story and get that 491 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,600 across. I don't like Richard Doty. Yeah, I think this is coming to the end. So do you have any 492 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:05,320 closing thoughts? I mean, I know we think he's a skisdaker. I don't think it's somebody to be 493 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:11,240 believed. I don't think at all. But at the same time, it's so hard to actually say. Barring him 494 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,120 showing his bank account. I don't know how you could say like, you know, for sure he's lying or 495 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,000 you know, for sure. But then you show his bank account. But what's that going to prove if he's 496 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,480 talking about aliens unless he's being paid? Well, it's at least going to prove he's not getting 497 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,160 paid. Well, he is right now. I mean, he's still if he's working as a police officer, he's still 498 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:37,720 being paid. Well, no, yeah, he's no. And he's drawing a pension. But I would say like, you're 499 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,880 done here. We'll get you a cushy job as a police officer. No, but you would think if they're also 500 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:50,120 paying him to go do these interviews that he would be getting good compensation for. Just 501 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,680 police compensation. And also he would have to be working as a police officer. And we do know that 502 00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:02,760 he is through Freedom of Information Act request that he was for sure employed by what he says 503 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:08,360 that he was that was back there. And then as you can see, a few points that I have written down, 504 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:15,960 you see that some of the stuff I can't see. I'll read. I read you here. A lot of what he says 505 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,560 is contradictory to what he's saying. And the accounts have changed over the years, 506 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:27,080 according to him. I already said this one to the Air Force refuses to comment on whether they knew 507 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:33,240 of what he was doing in his activities and whether his claims of partaking in this activity 508 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:39,480 at the behest. Totally my word. His superiors is accurate. You don't know that. I do. It was 509 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:49,560 right there in my notes. I wrote it down. You basically UFO people are super gullible. I mean, 510 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:57,640 I can't disagree with them. I can't either. But I mean, you go to anybody with any sort of credentials 511 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,160 and they're going to believe you. It's not just UFO people. People get stopped by fake police 512 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,680 officers or not police officers. And they just naturally trust that they're a police officer. 513 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,720 And sometimes they're not on and they call like the place and say like, I mean, if he wants to 514 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:19,720 pull me over or fuck Gabriel Wormann, like this happens, but you give it to a UFO person and 515 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,680 they're like, oh, you have people. They're so gullible. They're crazy. They're not. They're 516 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,880 just regular people being told that it's the government doing this and just trust the government. 517 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:37,240 Yeah. If anything is for certain, I hate Richie D. And what is the point of him? Yeah. I mean, 518 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:43,240 to be fair, at the end of the day, Dickie really seems to be just a big of these. So. 519 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:50,120 So that's Richard Doty and we hate him. Okay. Well, I'm glad I now have a reason 520 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,800 emotionally to hate another individual and as opposed to just kind of like vaguely hating 521 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,360 it. So yeah, it's pretty. It's been a good emotional journey. Yeah. I'm here. That's 522 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,160 the reasons to hate this guy. Yeah. But thank you for that, Chelsea. I think we'll go towards 523 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,160 something slightly less hateful in the next couple of episodes, but you never know. I decided to 524 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:15,000 go with hate on this episode, which is Richard Doty. Yeah. And hate is what you got and hate maybe 525 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,360 is something you get next time too. Probably not, but maybe I'm not ruling hate out. That's fair. 526 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,000 But for now, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea talking about this Doty character, 527 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Richard Doty, and we have been journey to the fringe. Thank you for listening and we'll see you 528 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:38,920 next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. If you have liked what 529 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:45,720 you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow, depending on what venue you are 530 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:52,040 listening to us through. Also, please, if possible, leave a five star review, as that really helps us 531 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,800 in the algorithms. Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of 532 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,080 choice. I bet you we are there. And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for 533 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,880 new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email 534 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,480 at journey to the fringe at gmail.com. For now, I'll see you in the next episode.