WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.589 Do you have an intro or not? Oh, no, I forgot 00:00:03.589 --> 00:00:06.610 all about the intro. I do happen to have one, 00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:09.070 so that is good. OK, good. I completely forgot 00:00:09.070 --> 00:00:12.710 about the intro. Have you followed what's going 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:17.309 on in Kazakhstan? I did turn on the news this 00:00:17.309 --> 00:00:19.329 morning because it's the first time that I got 00:00:19.329 --> 00:00:21.929 in my car in the morning for about three weeks. 00:00:22.109 --> 00:00:25.609 And I did know that was the Russian Ukraine. 00:00:25.809 --> 00:00:27.929 Well, this one somewhat involves Russia again, 00:00:27.929 --> 00:00:30.739 because Kazakhstan is a satellite state of Russia 00:00:30.739 --> 00:00:33.219 was part of the USSR. Ukraine's paying close 00:00:33.219 --> 00:00:35.439 attention to what's going on here, too. Basically, 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:39.420 gas prices in Kazakhstan have been seeing a higher 00:00:39.420 --> 00:00:43.100 than normal rate, and it has driven a lot of 00:00:43.100 --> 00:00:46.820 the populace to rebellion. This happened early 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:50.179 last week, basically right after the New Year. 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:53.340 That would be like week of January three to 10th, 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:56.229 somewhere in that range. OK. So a lot of people 00:00:56.229 --> 00:00:57.929 took to the streets they started messing with 00:00:57.929 --> 00:01:01.909 things they broke into gun shops and a lot of 00:01:01.909 --> 00:01:04.930 police actually joined the rebellion and military 00:01:04.930 --> 00:01:07.510 individuals joined it as well how bad is it. 00:01:07.849 --> 00:01:09.930 I'm gonna read a quick article on the guardian 00:01:09.930 --> 00:01:12.280 guys an idea of what's going on here. Unrest 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.280 in Kazakhstan is continuing and the president, 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:23.180 Kasym Jomart, Kasym Jomart Tokayev has called 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:25.719 on a Moscow -led security alliance to provide 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:28.319 peacekeeping troops to help him regain control. 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:31.140 With a mobile reception and internet blackout, 00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:33.500 across much of the country, reliable figures 00:01:33.500 --> 00:01:35.780 on casualties are hard to come by, but there 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.549 have been violent clashes in Almaty. and other 00:01:38.549 --> 00:01:41.730 cities. Tokayev has promised a ruthless crackdown 00:01:41.730 --> 00:01:44.549 and blamed terrorists trained abroad for the 00:01:44.549 --> 00:01:47.390 violence. The protests started at the weekend 00:01:47.390 --> 00:01:49.489 and were sparked by rising fuel prices in the 00:01:49.489 --> 00:01:51.549 west of the country. They quickly spread to encompass 00:01:51.549 --> 00:01:54.269 other regions and turned into a general protest 00:01:54.269 --> 00:01:56.689 against corruption, poverty, and inequality within 00:01:56.689 --> 00:01:59.450 the country. Protesters are angry with Tokayev 00:01:59.450 --> 00:02:04.269 and benefactor Nursultan Nazarbayev, who ruled 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.469 Kazakhstan between independence 1991 to 2019. 00:02:07.659 --> 00:02:09.599 And he's still somewhat involved in the country. 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.479 So it has sprung to that. It was huge. And the 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.180 government had ordered a shoot on site for the 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:18.099 military. Some people were stepping down. Some 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:19.979 weren't from the military and joining the rebellion. 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:22.879 I saw an update from January 9th on Al Jazeera. 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.560 So far, they have confirmed 160 people have been 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:28.639 killed and 5000 people have been arrested during 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:32.159 the riots. How high are the gas prices? I have 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.439 not found anywhere how high the gas prices are. 00:02:34.539 --> 00:02:36.919 It was just like something that broke the camel's 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.889 back. Yeah, it's kind of like historians will 00:02:39.889 --> 00:02:42.250 say bread prices are what brought about the French 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:45.990 Revolution. Yeah. It's just when things hit a 00:02:45.990 --> 00:02:48.210 certain point, people get really pissed off. 00:02:48.469 --> 00:02:51.270 OK, I can get that. So it's not like they're 00:02:51.270 --> 00:02:53.930 seeing a buck 80 a liter or something like that. 00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:56.569 Hell, I believe Kazakhstan's got its own oil. 00:02:56.610 --> 00:02:58.710 So it's probably like 60 cents a liter or something 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:00.889 like that. I couldn't tell you one second here. 00:03:01.110 --> 00:03:04.509 But as this was all coming down. It was crazy 00:03:04.509 --> 00:03:07.009 to see reports of like the police turning over 00:03:07.009 --> 00:03:10.250 their weapons to the rebels to help them out. 00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:12.990 People raiding gun shops and just taking what 00:03:12.990 --> 00:03:15.789 they could and military individuals stepping 00:03:15.789 --> 00:03:19.229 down and private jets just fleeing the country 00:03:19.229 --> 00:03:21.830 en masse with all the upper class people just 00:03:21.830 --> 00:03:25.750 getting the hell away from it. Ninety five octane 00:03:25.750 --> 00:03:27.949 gasoline is two hundred and three point eight 00:03:27.949 --> 00:03:31.930 Kazakhstan 10 gas per liter, which is about forty 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:34.889 seven cents a liter. So I'm not that far off. 00:03:35.250 --> 00:03:38.030 You're not. That's not that bad. Do we rebel? 00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:41.710 But then there might be a gap. Yeah. But something 00:03:41.710 --> 00:03:44.030 we'll keep an eye on. At the very least, we'll 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.710 talk about it in late December of this year. 00:03:46.830 --> 00:03:49.229 We'll update you. And from there, I think we've 00:03:49.229 --> 00:03:51.490 got a good episode in store. So let's just get 00:03:51.490 --> 00:03:57.909 right to it. From the unexplained to the mundane, 00:03:58.349 --> 00:04:03.830 come join us on a Journey to the Fringe. Hello 00:04:03.830 --> 00:04:06.750 and welcome to Journey to the Fringe. If you 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:09.270 are here for directions to your local Fringe 00:04:09.270 --> 00:04:11.770 Festival, I am sorry to say you are in the wrong 00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:14.569 place, but we can still help you out with Fringe 00:04:14.569 --> 00:04:18.610 topics. I am... one of your podcast hosts today, 00:04:18.790 --> 00:04:21.589 Taylor, here along with Chelsea. The tourism 00:04:21.589 --> 00:04:24.829 industry has seen much change over the last 50 00:04:24.829 --> 00:04:27.670 years from your parents, grandparents and great 00:04:27.670 --> 00:04:30.470 grandparents getting on a plane maybe to go visit 00:04:30.470 --> 00:04:34.029 Hawaii and or Mexico. Or take the Titanic from 00:04:34.029 --> 00:04:37.370 Southampton over. Yeah, make it all the way. 00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:40.629 I don't know how many people have relatives on 00:04:40.629 --> 00:04:47.269 that, but anyway. No longer can a family be satiated 00:04:47.269 --> 00:04:49.930 by getting in the station wagon and driving over 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:54.160 to the nearby exhibitions or next town over. 00:04:54.379 --> 00:04:57.100 People need attractions, people need exotic, 00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:00.720 people need to do this all on a budget. Hence 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:05.620 the rise of the cruise industry, which has seen 00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:09.459 its revenues absolutely explode over the last 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:12.639 two decades, being the only portion of the travel 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.220 industry during the 2008 recession to actually 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:18.139 see a profit. People love the convenience of 00:05:18.139 --> 00:05:20.699 it, having everything included and seeing many 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.839 locales on their travels. And comparatively to 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:29.500 a vacation sitting in one place, it is relatively 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:32.699 cheap. which has drawn many people towards this. 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:36.339 Probably not surprising, there are many dirty 00:05:36.339 --> 00:05:38.720 business practices within this industry that 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:42.519 allows them to keep up its persona and its prices 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.480 and attract people to its locales. I will include 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.060 a trigger warning at this point as we may bring 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:53.060 up sexual assaults later on in the episode. Viewer 00:05:53.060 --> 00:05:55.160 discretion is advised, but today we are going 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:58.100 to talk about the underbelly or below the deck 00:05:58.100 --> 00:06:01.699 of the crews in We're going to start off by talking 00:06:01.699 --> 00:06:04.160 about legal loopholes that they follow. We're 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:06.439 going to follow that up by talking about the 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:08.899 employment issues that are faced within this 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:12.740 industry. Next to crimes, finish it off with 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:16.680 the environmental impact of cruises. This will 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:18.980 be a heavy topic. You don't have to wear a seatbelt 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:21.439 on this one because cruises do not need them. 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:24.459 They move at a luxury pace. Unless there's a 00:06:24.459 --> 00:06:27.779 rogue wave. Sorry to break that to you here. 00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:32.149 In which case there's still no seatbelt. There's 00:06:32.149 --> 00:06:37.189 still no seatbelt. Sold onto something that's 00:06:37.189 --> 00:06:40.129 like bolted down. I'm going to start us off here 00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:43.769 with an application for a trademark applied for 00:06:43.769 --> 00:06:46.810 by the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line in April of 00:06:46.810 --> 00:06:50.949 2021. They applied for a trademark, America's 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:54.910 cruise line, quote unquote, and quote America's 00:06:54.910 --> 00:06:57.610 favorite cruise line, unquote, emphasis added 00:06:57.610 --> 00:07:02.060 by me. I found that very laughable, mostly because 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:04.480 they don't have a great connection to the US 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.560 anymore. But on the other hand, isn't that just 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.000 the American way of business at this point? Having 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.819 no connection to the US. Yes. So that they can 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:14.860 make further money. Oh, yes. OK, I get where 00:07:14.860 --> 00:07:17.939 you're going with this. Now, with many companies 00:07:17.939 --> 00:07:20.220 actually having their headquarters in Miami, 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.779 it may surprise you that there is, in fact, only 00:07:22.779 --> 00:07:25.540 one cruise ship in the entire world that is actually 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:28.389 registered in the United States. The rest are 00:07:28.389 --> 00:07:31.689 registered in very well -known and prominent 00:07:31.689 --> 00:07:35.170 maritime countries such as Liberia, Panama, the 00:07:35.170 --> 00:07:39.529 Bahamas, Bermuda. And Malta. What one is registered 00:07:39.529 --> 00:07:41.990 to the United States? That is the spirit of the 00:07:41.990 --> 00:07:43.930 United States. I'll talk about it at the end. 00:07:43.930 --> 00:07:46.870 OK, most of these companies have absolutely no 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:49.329 connection to these countries in any way. Why 00:07:49.329 --> 00:07:51.870 exactly do they have the ships registered there? 00:07:51.949 --> 00:07:54.850 Well, there are two different types of ship registries 00:07:54.850 --> 00:07:57.550 in the world. They're what's known as open registrations 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:00.209 and closed registrations. Closed registrations 00:08:00.209 --> 00:08:03.629 require you to have some sort of business connection 00:08:03.629 --> 00:08:06.069 to the country at which you're registering, which 00:08:06.069 --> 00:08:08.680 would either be the ship is constructed within 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.579 that country or you have some sort of business 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:13.930 headquarters in that country. And then there 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:16.670 are open registrations. Now, the reason open 00:08:16.670 --> 00:08:18.769 registrations do not require you to have any 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:21.449 connection at all to that country for you to 00:08:21.449 --> 00:08:24.149 register your boat. Why is this important? Wherever 00:08:24.149 --> 00:08:27.709 you register your boat is the laws that you will 00:08:27.709 --> 00:08:29.970 have to follow while you're out at sea, while 00:08:29.970 --> 00:08:32.350 you're in port at other countries or in international 00:08:32.350 --> 00:08:35.029 waters. It is also the country at which you will 00:08:35.029 --> 00:08:37.950 pay taxes on your ship. Instead of registering 00:08:37.950 --> 00:08:40.110 in the US, major cruise lines register their 00:08:40.110 --> 00:08:42.330 ships in another country, often in the developing 00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:44.809 world. This is called a flag of convenience, 00:08:45.129 --> 00:08:47.389 which is a contentious maritime industry practice 00:08:47.389 --> 00:08:50.230 allowing vessel owners to avoid regulation and 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:52.690 taxes and reduce labor costs by hiring cheaper 00:08:52.690 --> 00:08:55.090 foreign mariners, often with questionable credentials. 00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:57.929 Oh, they all have to go by maritime law. Well, 00:08:58.049 --> 00:09:02.169 they do. But there's maritime ships, not they 00:09:02.169 --> 00:09:05.169 don't have to go by it, but maritime law applies 00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:08.750 somewhat. There's no real maritime law for personal 00:09:08.750 --> 00:09:11.289 individuals, especially those on board of the 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:14.250 ships for intents and purposes. While it's at 00:09:14.250 --> 00:09:17.250 sea, unless it's having to do with two ships 00:09:17.250 --> 00:09:21.750 interactions, it is just that country's laws 00:09:21.750 --> 00:09:26.080 that apply to it. Oh. Okay. That is for the people 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.639 on board, that is for the employees on board, 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:31.200 that is for the revenue that is generated on 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.960 board. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes, completely. 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:37.139 The flags of convenience require you to fly the 00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:40.000 flag of the country on the ship from where it's 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.639 registered. I find this hilarious. Chelsea, have 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.200 you ever seen the Liberian flag? No, maybe. Look 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.580 it up. Is that a United States flag? I fully 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:52.519 believe that they drafted the Liberian flag. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:55.519 As, hey, let's pretend that we are the United 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.340 States flag for ease in shipping and people thinking 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:00.659 that it's just an American flag. Just one star 00:10:00.659 --> 00:10:03.179 instead of 50. Is that what the states are? Because 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:05.360 at the flight, it's fairly far away from you. 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.539 It looks exactly like an American flag, except 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:12.159 there is one star where the 50 stars should be. 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:14.899 Most Americans might not be able to tell the 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:18.019 difference. Why Liberia, though? I don't know 00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:21.000 if you know where Liberia is. It is on the West 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:25.730 Coast. Africa just above the Ivory Coast or Cote 00:10:25.730 --> 00:10:29.169 I've war I can't remember it's French Ivory Coast 00:10:29.169 --> 00:10:32.250 right below Sierra Leone that's where pirates 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:34.590 come from you're think of a Somalia that's the 00:10:34.590 --> 00:10:37.259 other side that's the Horn of Africa okay I thought 00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:39.399 we were about to have a crossover. Around the 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.279 end of World War II, Edward R. Stettinius Jr. 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:45.460 was heading home from Europe and he made a stop 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:48.039 in Liberia. He saw it was poor, underdeveloped, 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.279 rich in natural resources, and he decided he 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.120 wanted to get American business to invest. Stettinius 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.659 knew a lot of people in big American corporations 00:10:55.659 --> 00:10:57.740 and he heard them saying, we want to have a new 00:10:57.740 --> 00:11:00.120 country where we can easily register our ships. 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:03.600 A new flag of convenience. Stettinius thought, 00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:07.019 Liberia, it's perfect. Not only was the law designed 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.240 to help American businesses, it was set up to 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.700 be run from an office in the U .S. and managed 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:14.580 by Americans. By the late 1960s, Liberia was 00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:16.720 the largest registry in the world. It's second 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:19.620 place today, right behind Panama now. This has 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.440 to do with several civil wars that took place. 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:24.279 There is a dictator in place now, I believe his 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.879 name is Charles Taylor. Since that happened, 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.139 most cruise ships have actually left this flag 00:11:29.139 --> 00:11:31.019 of convenience and move over to Panama and the 00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:34.110 Bahamas. But to this day, funds from registering 00:11:34.110 --> 00:11:38.190 ships continue to supply 70 % of its total government 00:11:38.190 --> 00:11:41.350 revenue. After the Civil War of 1990, Liberia 00:11:41.350 --> 00:11:43.029 joined the Republic of the Marshall Islands to 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:45.350 develop new maritime and corporate program. The 00:11:45.350 --> 00:11:46.990 resulting company, International Registries, 00:11:47.049 --> 00:11:49.429 was formed as a parent company and in 1993 was 00:11:49.429 --> 00:11:52.090 bought out by its management. After taking over 00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:54.629 the Liberian government, American Liberian warlord, 00:11:54.870 --> 00:11:56.830 Charles Taylor, signed a new registry contract 00:11:56.830 --> 00:11:58.789 with Liberian International Ship and Corporate 00:11:58.789 --> 00:12:02.129 Registry, commonly known as Ali - which is one 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:05.330 of the few legal sources of income for Taylor's 00:12:05.330 --> 00:12:08.590 regime. Liberia's registry is operated from Virginia 00:12:08.590 --> 00:12:11.899 in the United States. This is all very confusing. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.220 Yeah, it's a lot like our Panama Papers episode 00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:17.700 in that all the laws are being written in the 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.059 United States. That's what I was thinking. Basically, 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.179 they're just saying that for all intents and 00:12:22.179 --> 00:12:24.659 purposes, we're in our country, the US or Canada 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:27.899 or wherever it is. But legally, the ship is from 00:12:27.899 --> 00:12:30.299 this country and it flies its flag. And we follow 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:33.039 these laws. And we pay taxes there on this ship. 00:12:33.370 --> 00:12:36.750 I was looking at registration in Liberia. It's 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:40.350 ten cents per ton per year, which on the world's 00:12:40.350 --> 00:12:42.830 largest cruise ship, which is two hundred and 00:12:42.830 --> 00:12:44.909 eighty thousand tons, it would have been twenty 00:12:44.909 --> 00:12:46.470 eight thousand dollars a year. Is that a deal? 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:48.470 That's a pretty good deal considering you're 00:12:48.470 --> 00:12:51.350 not paying taxes. That's a smoking deal. OK. 00:12:51.889 --> 00:12:53.690 And you're getting other benefits on top of that. 00:12:53.710 --> 00:12:55.990 Of course, that was just looking at their their 00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:57.710 rates. I'm sure there's other things taken into 00:12:57.710 --> 00:13:00.990 account, but that's what I could find. OK, that 00:13:00.990 --> 00:13:03.769 wasn't an advertisement for flying a flag of 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:06.169 Liberia for your ship. By the way, they didn't 00:13:06.169 --> 00:13:08.470 pay. And that is just that's the biggest thing 00:13:08.470 --> 00:13:10.269 right there is you're not worrying about taxes 00:13:10.269 --> 00:13:13.730 at that point on any revenue coming from your 00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:15.669 cruise ship. I don't think I have to put a disclaimer 00:13:15.669 --> 00:13:18.090 on this episode like I did on the Panama Papers, 00:13:18.129 --> 00:13:19.990 just because I don't think anybody who listens 00:13:19.990 --> 00:13:23.590 to us is in a position to transfer the flag on 00:13:23.590 --> 00:13:26.629 their cruise ship to Liberia to get around American 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:29.889 taxes. Better do it just in case again. don't 00:13:29.889 --> 00:13:34.129 take legal advice from us. We got a lawyer. Now 00:13:34.129 --> 00:13:37.230 again, a big part of this is the tax haven status 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:40.549 that it allows, but there's another legal requirement 00:13:40.549 --> 00:13:43.269 that's gotten around this way too, and that is 00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:46.509 employment standards. Ship owners often register 00:13:46.509 --> 00:13:48.570 their ships under a foreign flag in order to 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:50.950 employ seafarers from developing countries with 00:13:50.950 --> 00:13:53.389 lower wages. The Philippines and China supply 00:13:53.389 --> 00:13:56.070 a large percentage of maritime labor in general 00:13:56.070 --> 00:13:58.230 and major flags of convenience in particular. 00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:01.409 In 2009, the flag states employing the highest 00:14:01.409 --> 00:14:04.850 number of expat Filipino seafarers were Panama, 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:08.049 the Bahamas, Liberia, and the Marshall Islands. 00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:12.149 That year, 2009, more than 150 ,000 Filipino 00:14:12.149 --> 00:14:14.450 sailors were employed by these four flags of 00:14:14.450 --> 00:14:16.750 convenience. And I've seen it upwards as about 00:14:16.750 --> 00:14:19.830 400 ,000 today. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. And 00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:21.990 their contracts depend on the labor laws where 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:24.649 the company is registered. Since the 2006 court 00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:27.049 ruling, workers haven't been able to file any 00:14:27.049 --> 00:14:29.159 claims in U .S. courts. Instead, their contracts 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.919 say they must resolve issues through a private 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.779 arbitrator paid for by the cruise line and based 00:14:34.779 --> 00:14:37.480 outside the U .S. In the last decade, the cruise 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.480 industry spent over $31 million lobbying the 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.100 U .S. government and several legislators to avoid 00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.480 federal tax and employment regulation. Cruise 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.059 lines utilizing foreign flag ships may argue 00:14:49.059 --> 00:14:51.820 the question of mariner competency is moot. This 00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:54.080 is a big thing that people bring up is when you're 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.139 using these foreigners and paying them next to 00:14:56.139 --> 00:14:58.899 nothing, they're not going to be competent mariners, 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:01.039 and really all they're looking for is the cheapest 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:04.220 workers. Yeah, sounds like it. Cruise lines utilizing 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:06.899 foreign flag ships may argue that the question 00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:09.379 of mariner competency is moot with the advent 00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:12.600 of International Maritime Organizations International 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.080 Convention of Standards of Training, Certification, 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.720 and Watchkeeping. What these same FOC cruise 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:19.919 lines will not tell you is that each flag state 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.600 has the ultimate authority to administer, certify, 00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:26.409 and enforce this regulation, STCW. As such a 00:15:26.409 --> 00:15:28.389 flag state with limited resources may not have 00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.129 the training assets or personnel to ensure proper 00:15:31.129 --> 00:15:33.289 maritime certification, complicating matters 00:15:33.289 --> 00:15:35.529 further, many of these foreign flag states are 00:15:35.529 --> 00:15:37.990 ripe for corruption and graft. Together, these 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:40.070 raise questions about the training and skills 00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:42.710 of mariners working on foreign flagged cruise 00:15:42.710 --> 00:15:44.909 ships. And just to give you an idea of what we're 00:15:44.909 --> 00:15:47.309 talking about here for what people are paid on 00:15:47.309 --> 00:15:50.289 these ships, a 2006 statistic on the International 00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:53.850 Labor Organization gave an average yearly earning 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:57.509 for Filipino and Chinese able semen, somewhere 00:15:57.509 --> 00:16:01.350 around $2 ,000 per year. What? These guys are 00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:05.210 working upwards of 70 to 90 hours a week. They're 00:16:05.210 --> 00:16:08.340 making nothing. Cruise ship employees work over 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:10.879 70 hours a week with no rest days or paid vacations. 00:16:11.059 --> 00:16:13.000 If they suffer any mishaps, they are not protected 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.179 under the United States justice system. That's 00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:17.940 messed up. This is a strange story. Matt and 00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:20.080 Susan Davis were on their way to dinner during 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.960 their last night aboard the Carnival Ecstasy 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.179 when they stumbled upon a shocking scene. Blood 00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:25.799 was dripping down the door of the cruise ship's 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:27.740 10th floor elevator. They took out their cell 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:29.740 phones and recorded it. In the video, dated December 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:32.919 27th, 2015, a female employee can be heard asking 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.419 guests to leave the area. 45 minutes later, the 00:16:35.419 --> 00:16:37.649 elevator was fence off behind a floor sign that 00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:40.029 read, Sorry, I'm not working at the moment. Jose 00:16:40.029 --> 00:16:43.750 Sandoval Opazo, the Chilean Italian head of maintenance, 00:16:43.889 --> 00:16:45.769 had been repairing the elevator when it was suddenly 00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:48.210 activated. The 66 -year -old man, who had worked 00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:50.649 for Carnival for 17 years, was only two months 00:16:50.649 --> 00:16:52.889 away from retirement, died of brain and skull 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:55.269 trauma, according to the family's lawyer, Julio 00:16:55.269 --> 00:16:58.110 Ayala. Because the Carnival XC vessel is registered 00:16:58.110 --> 00:17:00.490 in Panama and operates on the Panamanian flag, 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:03.750 Sandoval Opazo was subject to that country's 00:17:03.750 --> 00:17:05.819 labor laws, which afforded him fewer protections 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.579 than U .S. laws would. After his death, his family 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:10.759 ended up agreeing to an out -of -court settlement 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.240 with the cruise line. This case demonstrates 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.019 something which is sadly common because it happens 00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:18.299 seven days a week aboard ships. Cruise lines 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.119 say that since they have foreign flags, they 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.140 are not subject to the regulations of the United 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:25.920 States. On paper, cruise ship employees are protected 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.720 by a U .S. Marine law called the Jones Act, but 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.339 for a decade, workers haven't been able to file 00:17:31.339 --> 00:17:33.839 any claims in the U .S. Instead, in the terms 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.440 of their contract, with major cruise lines dictate 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.240 that they must resolve their issues through a 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.140 private arbitrator, one that's accepted by both 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.059 parties paid for by the cruise line and based 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:45.740 outside the U .S. What? I saw so many stories 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:48.480 about people working upwards of 90 hours a week, 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.140 no days off, and they make anywhere from fifteen 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:54.640 hundred dollars a month to fifty dollars a month 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.099 plus tips. Oh, my God. That's kind of messed 00:17:57.099 --> 00:17:59.460 up, though, that if they do anything, they have 00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:01.900 to get a lawyer paid for by the cruise line. 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.819 The lawyer is not paid for by the cruise line. 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:05.920 the arbitrator is paid for by the cruise line. 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.099 It's an arbitrator. The arbitrator is basically 00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:11.279 a private judge. What? Yeah, that's even worse. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.680 So they're just paying for a judge. You would 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.599 have to buy your own lawyer. And if the cruise 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.700 line is 100 percent paying for the arbitrator, 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.940 that means that the arbitrator has to worry in 00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:23.900 a rule in their favor, not necessarily rule in 00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:26.180 their favor. but they personally will likely 00:18:26.180 --> 00:18:29.099 take into consideration the fact that if they 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:32.339 don't do what the paying party wants, they aren't 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:35.579 as likely to get asked back. That's crazy. How 00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:38.220 is that legal? Because they're based in another 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:41.059 country. Yeah. OK. They're saving a ton of money, 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:43.640 not only on taxes, they're saving it by paying 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.019 their employees next to nothing. They do not 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:48.420 have to worry about worker safety because, again, 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.839 these laws don't apply at sea. You know, because 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:54.309 they are flying under the Panamanian flag. or 00:18:54.309 --> 00:18:56.589 the Liberian flag or the Bahamas flag. That's 00:18:56.589 --> 00:18:59.269 so bad. Hey, this is worse than I thought. The 00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:01.430 flag of convenience ships have long been linked 00:19:01.430 --> 00:19:03.930 to crime as well on the high seas. And in fact, 00:19:03.970 --> 00:19:06.650 in 1982, Honduras shut down its open registry 00:19:06.650 --> 00:19:09.549 operations because it had enabled, quote, illegal 00:19:09.549 --> 00:19:12.569 traffic of all kinds and had given Honduras a 00:19:12.569 --> 00:19:16.869 bad name, unquote. I found stories of North Korea 00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:19.309 being a flag of convenience and then immediately 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:22.029 switching itself to flags from Tuvalu, which 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:24.329 I have no idea where that is. but basically they 00:19:24.329 --> 00:19:27.109 were importing heroin to Australia under a North 00:19:27.109 --> 00:19:29.990 Korean flag and then they decided to switch flags 00:19:29.990 --> 00:19:32.329 so that they couldn't be caught. It's in Oceania. 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.180 Oh, okay, so it's near Australia. Interesting. 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.579 Yeah. And this is a legal activity from open 00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:41.339 registration and open registration legislation 00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:44.740 for flags of convenience do not just apply to 00:19:44.740 --> 00:19:47.339 cruise lines. They apply to all shipping types. 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.619 They apply to fisheries. They apply to shipping 00:19:50.619 --> 00:19:53.140 companies. They apply to cruise ships and any 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.180 other types of ships I can't think of off the 00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:57.400 top of my head. But we are just focusing on cruise 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.400 ships at this point. Yeah. When we talk about 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.819 the legal loopholes, we also need to talk about 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:05.420 actual crime. Chelsea's gonna talk about environmental 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.740 crime at a later point, but I am going to talk 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:10.940 about criminal activities with regards to bodily 00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:14.859 harm and theft property harm when cruise ships 00:20:14.859 --> 00:20:19.559 dock somewhere or within 12 miles of a country 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.500 Nautical miles I should say they technically 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.329 fall under the criminal law or the criminal code 00:20:26.329 --> 00:20:28.890 of that country. So anything that happens at 00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:31.390 that point is under the jurisdiction of the country 00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:34.230 that it's either docked at or within the 12 mile 00:20:34.230 --> 00:20:37.470 vicinity of when it gives me a little peace of 00:20:37.470 --> 00:20:39.609 mind. Well, depending on what countries it's 00:20:39.609 --> 00:20:42.109 actually going to. True. I want to go to legally 00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:45.349 sound countries. If you take a cruise after this, 00:20:45.390 --> 00:20:48.920 when it's on international waters, it has to 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.920 abide by the criminal code or the criminal code 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.079 of the country its registered at applies. There 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:58.019 is no criminal code that applies to international 00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:01.200 waters necessarily on its own. And this can make 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.180 actually filing a police report or a criminal 00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:07.500 complaint against a party very difficult. A reported 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:09.960 sexual assault case aboard a Mediterranean cruise 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.579 ship highlighted this legal ambiguity when a 00:21:12.579 --> 00:21:15.420 Spanish judge released a detained suspect after 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.890 the ship docked in Valencia. The judge declared 00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:20.490 that Spain had no jurisdiction in the case because 00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:22.410 the alleged crime was said to have taken place 00:21:22.410 --> 00:21:24.710 in international waters, according to a report 00:21:24.710 --> 00:21:27.230 by the Spanish newspaper Levante. With the question 00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:29.170 if Spain cannot prosecute, then which country 00:21:29.170 --> 00:21:31.589 can? There's no cut and dried rule, said Frederick 00:21:31.589 --> 00:21:33.569 Kenny, the director of legal affairs and external 00:21:33.569 --> 00:21:36.369 relations for the International Maritime Organization, 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:38.829 a United Nations agency responsible for global 00:21:38.829 --> 00:21:41.269 shipping safety. There is no international law 00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:43.630 that covers the situation at the moment, he said. 00:21:43.789 --> 00:21:46.890 A lot of the time, when anything happens in international 00:21:46.890 --> 00:21:51.619 waters, waters it is the duty of the staff and 00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:56.640 crew to take actions to mitigate damage, preserve 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.319 evidence, and to ensure that people are brought 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.940 to justice or not justice, but at least dealt 00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:05.299 with at the next port or reported to the proper 00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:09.119 authorities. This duty is counterintuitive to 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:13.140 an industry that is entirely based on PR and 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:16.380 making sure that you look like a fun and suitable 00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:19.259 place for a family to be. But if they reported 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.220 someone at the next port a call, that even do 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:24.420 anything because then it's not their jurisdiction. 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.940 And that's part of it too, like maybe they get 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:29.599 discharged at that port. To be perfectly frank, 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.099 outside of steps that the US has taken in the 00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:35.440 last 10 years, it's hard to find a lot of information 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.740 about this and I do think it is because if crime 00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:41.880 happens on a cruise ship, their first action 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.920 is to downplay it and keep it quiet. I don't 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:46.660 want you to know that there's nothing to deal 00:22:46.660 --> 00:22:49.240 with any crime when you're in international waters. 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.759 That is at least my perception of this after 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.329 reading so many stories. If you wish to read 00:22:57.329 --> 00:22:59.950 some of these stories of people who have had 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:01.849 crimes committed against them on cruise ships, 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.369 there is a website called internationalcruisevictims 00:23:04.369 --> 00:23:08.509 .org. Many stories as well as discussion on crimes 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:12.089 that happen abroad or on cruise ships. Most people 00:23:12.089 --> 00:23:14.170 that have stories on there, I was going to read 00:23:14.170 --> 00:23:16.750 a couple, but they are long. They would take 00:23:16.750 --> 00:23:18.970 a long time to go over. So I'm just going to 00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:20.970 leave. Take a look at these on your own time. 00:23:20.990 --> 00:23:22.789 If you would like International Cruise Victims. 00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:25.710 Under victim stories, they have it broken down 00:23:25.710 --> 00:23:28.109 by different categories, sexual assaults, deaths, 00:23:28.390 --> 00:23:31.309 missing persons, overboard incidents. But whenever 00:23:31.309 --> 00:23:34.589 anybody talks to staff about an issue with crime, 00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.890 they are met with people trying to keep it quiet 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:40.250 so that other people don't hear that a crime 00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:42.869 was committed aboard and then trying to dismiss 00:23:42.869 --> 00:23:45.210 the complaint. Keep in mind, there is no police 00:23:45.210 --> 00:23:47.430 organization on cruise ships. It is just whatever 00:23:47.430 --> 00:23:49.750 staff happened to be around at the time. Maybe 00:23:49.750 --> 00:23:52.109 they have security. But maybe they're not there. 00:23:52.109 --> 00:23:54.690 You have a jail cell. They do have a brig. Yes, 00:23:54.869 --> 00:23:57.029 there can be upwards of 10 ,000 people on these 00:23:57.029 --> 00:24:00.029 cruise ships. So it is it's a small town of people 00:24:00.029 --> 00:24:02.990 on this boat that doesn't have a police organization. 00:24:03.289 --> 00:24:06.309 Now, there were laws passed in the United States 00:24:06.309 --> 00:24:09.829 that required any vessels that go through a port 00:24:09.829 --> 00:24:13.829 of the US needs to keep records of any crimes 00:24:13.829 --> 00:24:16.569 committed on board. And they, to their credit, 00:24:16.650 --> 00:24:19.410 at least they have been reporting these at least 00:24:19.410 --> 00:24:22.099 somewhat. And I actually had the numbers from 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:24.180 last quarter of 2020. Do you want to guess how 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.759 many crimes were committed last quarter of 2020? 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:31.319 I'm going to go with none because I don't think 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:37.140 there were none. In the third quarter of 2019, 00:24:37.299 --> 00:24:40.240 which is kind of the last like normal cruise 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.660 season I think you could kind of go with, there 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:46.539 were 46 reported sexual assaults. That is the 00:24:46.539 --> 00:24:48.559 biggest category of everything that is reported 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.119 is sexual assaults on cruise ships. The biggest 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.000 one being Carnival Cruise Lines who had 28 reported 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.400 against them, but they did bring up a good point. 00:24:56.619 --> 00:24:59.700 The data that is collected for crimes committed 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:02.740 on cruise ships only collects data on cruise 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:07.519 ships that have a port in the U .S. Oh, and Carnival 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.140 is the biggest cruise line out of the U .S. Therefore, 00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:13.380 they are likely to have the most against them. 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:16.619 Interesting. I could not find. any information 00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:20.660 there are fines upwards of $25 ,000 per action 00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:23.779 for not reporting these crimes but I could not 00:25:23.779 --> 00:25:27.019 find a single piece of information and sorry 00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:28.900 this is the cruise vessel security and safety 00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:32.140 act that was put in place in 2010 I could not 00:25:32.140 --> 00:25:35.799 find a single piece of evidence online that anybody 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.039 had ever been fined or in trouble for not reporting 00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:42.059 crimes. And all the stories that I was reading, 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.740 again, are people who had been told, basically, 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:46.339 don't worry about it. There's nothing we can 00:25:46.339 --> 00:25:48.920 do about this. Let's not bring it anywhere. I 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.339 don't even know what one could do even if you 00:25:51.339 --> 00:25:54.079 didn't accept that. Thankfully, if you're an 00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.440 American, any crimes that happen on a cruise 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:02.180 ship can be reported to the FBI, regardless of 00:26:02.180 --> 00:26:06.279 if it happened in U .S. waters. Any U .S. nationals 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.660 have the protection of the FBI while on cruise 00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:11.059 ships. OK, if you learn anything from this, please 00:26:11.059 --> 00:26:13.380 make it that if a crime is committed against 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:15.279 you on a cruise ship and you're American reported 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.170 to the FBI. If you're anybody else. it becomes 00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:20.549 really tricky to figure out. As Canadians, we 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:23.549 don't have that luxury. Basically, the best thing 00:26:23.549 --> 00:26:27.089 you can do is report it to the authorities in 00:26:27.089 --> 00:26:29.170 the port that you're nearest to when you get 00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:31.329 there. If not, talk to a lawyer when you get 00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:33.230 home, see what you can do in your jurisdiction. 00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:35.269 And regardless of all that, always check with 00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:37.009 a lawyer in your area to see what you can and 00:26:37.009 --> 00:26:39.329 shouldn't do. The biggest categories that they're 00:26:39.329 --> 00:26:41.289 collecting information on under the Cruise Vessel 00:26:41.289 --> 00:26:44.470 Security and Safety Act are homicides, deaths, 00:26:44.869 --> 00:26:47.640 suspicious, missing U .S. nationals, kidnapping, 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:50.720 assaults with serious bodily injury, firing or 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.480 tampering with vessel, theft greater than $10 00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.980 ,000 in sexual assault. And before this and in 00:26:56.980 --> 00:26:58.980 any other jurisdiction, none of this information 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:01.779 is collected. So nobody really knows how bad 00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:05.019 it is. We are forced to do anecdotal evidence 00:27:05.019 --> 00:27:09.059 on this. If we're just looking at this report 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:11.880 tool to say what the actual rate is, what was 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.880 it? 28 per quarter. That's about 100. Let's just 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.569 say there's 100 sexual assaults reported per 00:27:17.569 --> 00:27:20.210 year and that's way higher than it actually is 00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:22.750 because that was a particularly high year. Carnival 00:27:22.750 --> 00:27:26.470 Cruise in 2019 had 12 .9 million passengers on 00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:29.690 its ship so if they only had a hundred sexual 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:34.289 assaults per 12 .9 million that's one for every 00:27:34.289 --> 00:27:38.210 about one per every 129 ,000 passengers which 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:42.640 is ridiculously low for there being no support 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:46.039 staff to actually do anything. And for being, 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.099 let's face it, drunk people on a boat. What else 00:27:49.099 --> 00:27:51.640 did I want to say here? Yeah. Eventually, the 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:53.779 US got around to passing the Cruise Vessel Security 00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:55.880 and Safety Act. Under United States law, the 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.000 FBI can choose to investigate cases involving 00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:59.900 American citizens, even when the cruise ship 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:02.079 did not dock in the United States ports. The 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:03.759 law provides passengers with the right to call 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.410 the FBI directly. Passengers usually don't realize 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:08.630 this. They have no idea. Even when the United 00:28:08.630 --> 00:28:10.509 States has asserted jurisdiction, there are many 00:28:10.509 --> 00:28:12.950 questions about what happens next. We had so 00:28:12.950 --> 00:28:15.029 many discussions with the FBI and Coast Guard. 00:28:15.109 --> 00:28:17.490 Once the crimes occurred, said Jamie Barnett, 00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:19.430 the president of International Cruise Victims 00:28:19.430 --> 00:28:21.930 Association. If I spoke to 100 different FBI 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:24.190 field agents, I would get 100 different responses 00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:26.529 as to what would happen after a report. It is 00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:28.630 very murky and citizens of countries that do 00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:30.789 not assert jurisdiction have less recourse. I 00:28:30.789 --> 00:28:32.829 wish I had more information. It's hard to come 00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:35.390 by the actual rates of crimes on cruise ships. 00:28:35.670 --> 00:28:38.710 These are multi -billion dollar companies who 00:28:38.710 --> 00:28:42.450 are trying to keep their image as happy and family 00:28:42.450 --> 00:28:45.650 friendly. So they are trying to keep this downplayed. 00:28:45.730 --> 00:28:47.950 All I can tell you is that I do believe it's 00:28:47.950 --> 00:28:51.130 under reported and be aware. Yes, I wouldn't 00:28:51.130 --> 00:28:53.250 suspect that it would be easy information to 00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:55.650 find. But with that, I think we've talked enough 00:28:55.650 --> 00:28:57.970 about all of this legality. Let's talk about 00:28:57.970 --> 00:29:00.750 some environmental impact. Yes. I just wanted 00:29:00.750 --> 00:29:03.369 to start with a fun fact to start this all off 00:29:03.369 --> 00:29:06.230 with. Did you know that by taking a cruise each 00:29:06.230 --> 00:29:09.470 passengers carbon footprint triples in size in 00:29:09.470 --> 00:29:12.430 relation to the emissions produced just in general 00:29:12.430 --> 00:29:15.579 living your life? Yes. It does, but it doesn't 00:29:15.579 --> 00:29:18.539 stop there. So with that, here are some sources 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:21.420 of pollution that come from cruise ships. The 00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:24.319 first one being sewage, which is human waste. 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:27.240 The second being gray water, which is wastewater 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:30.420 from sinks, showers, galleys, and laundry, which 00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:33.680 may contain or do contain detergents, cleaners, 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.880 oil and grease, metals, pesticides, and medical 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.200 waste. The next is oil and bilge water, which 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.420 is fuel, oil, oily water, on board. Spills collected 00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:46.859 in the bilge located in the bottom of the cruise 00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:50.019 ship's hull. Hazardous waste. which are toxic 00:29:50.019 --> 00:29:53.640 chemical waste from dry cleaning, photo processing. 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:57.480 Yes, cruise ships have large photo processing 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.000 centers because they want to sell you those photos 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.079 of you getting off the cruise ship in whatever 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.079 port of call you are. Just while I was doing 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.380 my research, they make 24 % of the revenue selling 00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:10.140 you add ons once you get on the ship. So that's 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:12.019 just one of those things that's super important 00:30:12.019 --> 00:30:14.259 to have it ready so that you can buy that memory 00:30:14.259 --> 00:30:16.440 that you normally wouldn't of you and your family 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.049 having a great time doing God knows what. Yeah. 00:30:20.750 --> 00:30:23.289 Hazardous waste also include batteries, fluorescent 00:30:23.289 --> 00:30:26.450 lamps and other hazardous waste that could be 00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:29.789 out there. Solid waste, which is plastic, paper, 00:30:29.950 --> 00:30:32.930 wood, cardboard, food waste, cans or glass, just 00:30:32.930 --> 00:30:36.470 general garbage. And then finally, air pollution. 00:30:36.650 --> 00:30:39.250 I'm sure we could come up with more ways that 00:30:39.250 --> 00:30:42.710 they pollute. According to the Bureau of Transportation 00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:47.089 Statistics, a 3000 passenger cruise ship generates 00:30:47.089 --> 00:30:49.329 the following amount of waste that I just talked 00:30:49.329 --> 00:30:52.009 about. Keep in mind, the mega cruise ships carry 00:30:52.009 --> 00:30:55.410 much more people than 3 ,000. It can be about 00:30:55.410 --> 00:30:58.269 triple that size. Yeah, this is one cruise ship. 00:30:58.509 --> 00:31:02.789 One million gallons of gray water, which is the 00:31:02.789 --> 00:31:06.210 wastewater from sink showers, whatever, galleys, 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:09.230 oil, everything. Twenty one thousand gallons 00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:12.690 of sewage. Twenty five thousand gallons of oily 00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:15.750 bilge water. Over a hundred gallons of hazardous 00:31:15.690 --> 00:31:19.829 or toxic waste 50 tons of garbage and solid waste 00:31:19.829 --> 00:31:23.029 diesel exhaust emissions and ultrafine particles 00:31:23.029 --> 00:31:26.109 similar to levels in highly polluted urban areas 00:31:26.109 --> 00:31:29.009 the cruise ship industry is responsible for a 00:31:29.009 --> 00:31:31.750 continuously increasing impact on the environment 00:31:31.750 --> 00:31:34.670 as well as health and well -being of both humans 00:31:34.670 --> 00:31:38.440 and animals A review published in Marine Pollution 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.200 Bulletin finds that cruising is a major source 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.920 of environmental pollution and degradation with 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:48.160 air, water, soil, fragile habitats and areas 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.420 and wildlife affected. First, I'm going to talk 00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:53.079 about pollution. Cruise ships are referred to 00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.059 as floating cities and contribute as much pollution 00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:59.440 as a city. Available research suggests that a 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.720 large cruise ship can have a carbon footprint 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.920 greater than one million cars. So for example, 00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:08.119 passengers on an Antarctic cruise can produce 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:11.500 as much CO2 emissions while on an average seven 00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:14.180 -day voyage as the average European in a year, 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.920 which is pretty scary being that Antarctic is 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.700 pretty untouched but you bring people in on cruise 00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:23.950 ships and that just blows it all to hell. Within 00:32:23.950 --> 00:32:27.190 the Mediterranean, cruise and ferry ship CO2 00:32:27.190 --> 00:32:30.450 emissions are estimated to be up to 10 % of all 00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:33.809 ship emissions and are providing about 10 % of 00:32:33.809 --> 00:32:37.789 those port cities pollution there. Traditionally 00:32:37.789 --> 00:32:44.349 ships use diesel engines, gas turbines, or a 00:32:44.349 --> 00:32:46.910 combination of both. Diesel fuel is linked to 00:32:46.910 --> 00:32:50.130 pollution as it produces nitrogen oxide emissions 00:32:50.130 --> 00:32:52.710 which have been linked to respiratory disease. 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:56.319 and lung cancer. The high sulfur content of the 00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:58.880 fuels are also harmful to the environment since 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.539 sulfur, when mixed with water and air, forms 00:33:01.539 --> 00:33:04.619 sulfuric acid, which is the main component of 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.839 acid rain. And acid rain can cause deforestation, 00:33:08.259 --> 00:33:11.380 it destroys aquatic life, and corrodes building 00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:14.660 materials. Recently, the International Maritime 00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:18.140 Organization, the IMO, announced that all vessels 00:33:18.140 --> 00:33:21.240 must switch to cleaner fuel with a lower sulfur 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.700 content. by 2020. However, instead of paying 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:28.160 for more expensive but less sulfuric fuel, such 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:31.099 as liquefied natural gas, ships are installing 00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:34.819 emission cheat systems called scrubbers. A scrubber 00:33:34.819 --> 00:33:38.039 allows a ship to wash cheat fuel and meet these 00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.740 requirements, then they discharge the pollutants 00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:43.380 from the cheat fuel into the ocean, which would 00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:46.019 otherwise be illegal to dump anywhere on land. 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:51.599 It is less expensive after all, so why not? study 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.160 found that the emission factors for a cruise 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.920 ship journeying to New Zealand were at least 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.960 three times higher than emission factors related 00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:03.140 to international aviation. Something to think 00:34:03.140 --> 00:34:06.660 about there. And energy use for staying overnight 00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:09.980 on a cruise ship versus overnight in a land -based 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:13.739 hotel is 12 times larger because these cruise 00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:16.900 ships never turn off their engines because they 00:34:16.900 --> 00:34:19.739 have to give power to the whole entire ship or 00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:22.489 obviously your whole trip so they're pretty much 00:34:22.489 --> 00:34:25.989 just constantly running all this crap unless 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:28.670 they can't make a profit off the casino exactly 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.250 the casino must always be running in international 00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:33.590 waters yes so i'm sure by now you're wondering 00:34:33.590 --> 00:34:36.969 what the regulation is for this and all the pollution 00:34:36.969 --> 00:34:40.309 being dumped everywhere basically for us to be 00:34:40.309 --> 00:34:44.630 surrounded by I guess. As far as emissions go, 00:34:44.929 --> 00:34:48.289 the waste streams generated by cruise ships are 00:34:48.289 --> 00:34:50.889 governed by a number of international protocols, 00:34:51.150 --> 00:34:55.050 especially MARPOL and U .S. domestic laws, including 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:58.090 the Clean Water Act and the Act to Prevent Pollution. 00:34:58.429 --> 00:35:02.239 Regulations and Standards but there is no single 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:05.500 law or rule so basically it comes down to each 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:08.460 country the cruise ship is entering which varies 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:11.539 greatly and in international waters there's nothing 00:35:11.539 --> 00:35:16.190 even in Canada we don't I found this hard to 00:35:16.190 --> 00:35:19.429 believe actually. In Canada we don't have adequate 00:35:19.429 --> 00:35:22.030 laws to protect us against cruise ship pollution 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:25.269 because we don't do any inspecting monitoring 00:35:25.269 --> 00:35:28.849 or enforcement of any sort which yeah shocking 00:35:28.849 --> 00:35:32.659 you would think having some of the natural you 00:35:32.659 --> 00:35:35.039 need that we have that we're not doing anything 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.199 to preserve it from cruise ships because we're 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.639 quite a popular cruise destination yeah just 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:41.659 to add why we're a popular cruise destination 00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:44.159 first off the reason a lot of countries or cities 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:47.440 especially allow cruises to dock is because of 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.969 the profit generated by 10 ,000 people coming 00:35:50.969 --> 00:35:53.769 into your city for a day or two. They say it's 00:35:53.769 --> 00:35:57.250 the economic benefit of allowing a ship of that 00:35:57.250 --> 00:35:59.650 size to dock in your area. What they don't really 00:35:59.650 --> 00:36:02.469 talk about is that environmental impact. The 00:36:02.469 --> 00:36:06.090 reason Vancouver is a very popular port for cruise 00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:11.030 ships is because a ship sailing from one US port 00:36:11.030 --> 00:36:14.989 to another US port has to be registered in the 00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:18.570 US. All Alaskan cruises stop before they go to 00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:21.519 Alaska. in Vancouver so that they can get over 00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.400 that and continue their flag of convenience status. 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:29.579 Yes. And during the end of last year, the U .S. 00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:33.539 actually applied to overwrite that because Canada 00:36:33.539 --> 00:36:36.760 still wasn't allowing cruise ships. So they were 00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.539 operating without. They would go right from Seattle 00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:43.880 to Alaska. Yeah. And Canada does have the inside 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.440 passage. That's not the United States. Oh, between 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.719 Vancouver and Victoria. Yeah, which is going 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.559 up to Alaska. So that any cruise ship would have 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.219 to go around Vancouver Island and the waves get 00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:57.119 pretty bad out that way. Do they? Well, they 00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.820 can. That's where Tofino is. Oh, I guess inside 00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.539 passage is protected. The funny thing I found 00:37:02.539 --> 00:37:05.119 about all of this in regards to the cruise industry 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.320 and just regular human things and countries and 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:11.500 stuff, I'd say. corporations as well. However, 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.340 I know that they're held to completely untouchable 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:17.000 standards. You look at countries that go to like 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.179 the G20 summit and talk about making changes 00:37:20.179 --> 00:37:23.039 to address major issues related to the global 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:26.519 economy, such as international financial stability, 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.440 climate change is a huge topic there, sustainable 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.019 development and lowering CO2 emissions, single 00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:37.639 plastic use, etc. By the way, none of it's actually 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.289 fast enough to prop address the trouble we're 00:37:40.289 --> 00:37:42.550 in but they're putting face that they're doing 00:37:42.550 --> 00:37:45.210 something kind of but that's neither here nor 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:48.170 there for this episode but with the cruise industry 00:37:48.170 --> 00:37:52.570 which is also obviously a large untouchable corporation 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:55.929 there's no international or global monitoring 00:37:55.929 --> 00:37:59.050 as I said previously and there's only a minor 00:37:59.050 --> 00:38:02.750 call for any regulation mostly by environmentalists 00:38:02.750 --> 00:38:06.570 it's minimal compared to the outrage that people 00:38:06.570 --> 00:38:09.699 should be having about this Money speaks louder 00:38:09.699 --> 00:38:13.159 obviously and that's what's gonna sustain the 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.860 industry from continuing to operate that way. 00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:18.219 So long as they're being fed the money they don't 00:38:18.219 --> 00:38:20.820 have to change. Obviously it's something we need 00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:24.099 for many reasons including its devastating effect 00:38:24.099 --> 00:38:27.380 on the environment and our oceans and it seems 00:38:27.380 --> 00:38:29.880 that without any regulation the cruise lines 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.260 will continue to find ways around pretty much 00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:35.039 all of their issues. So next one I'm gonna touch 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:39.119 on quickly is sewage. recall a 3 ,000 person 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:44.019 cruise ship generates 210 ,000 gallons of sewage 00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:46.440 weekly. All cruise ships sewage goes through 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.199 what is called sewage treatment where solid and 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.780 liquid waste is separated and sterilized and 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:54.260 then the solid is incinerated and the liquid 00:38:54.260 --> 00:38:57.059 is released back into the ocean. Apparently it's 00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:59.219 just like clean water. I don't know would you 00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:01.639 drink it? I've watched a few videos where they 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.099 said these guys are all saying it is nice and 00:39:04.099 --> 00:39:06.579 natural and environmental groups are saying yeah 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:08.900 Yeah, we don't really believe you. Yeah, I don't 00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:11.300 know. I'd like to see them drink it if they were 00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:16.340 so confident. In 2016, Princess Cruises was fined 00:39:16.340 --> 00:39:19.260 $40 million for polluting the ocean by dumping 00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:23.940 4 ,227 gallons of oily waste off the coast of 00:39:23.940 --> 00:39:27.400 Britain. And the list goes on of just cruises 00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:30.400 dumping it wherever they want, even if a country 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.960 does have regulations. Other cruise lines have 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.920 been charged with unauthorized discharge of untreated 00:39:35.690 --> 00:39:38.869 gray water or a stream of sewage that comes from 00:39:38.869 --> 00:39:41.090 everywhere but the toilet. I mean what are you 00:39:41.090 --> 00:39:43.329 gonna do to a cruise line that just has unlimited 00:39:43.329 --> 00:39:45.670 funds to pay these fines they don't really care 00:39:45.670 --> 00:39:48.449 they're worth so much money. Not to mention but 00:39:48.449 --> 00:39:51.550 sometimes it just happens accidentally not only 00:39:51.550 --> 00:39:54.630 where it is illegal to do so but also in protected 00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:58.289 waters such as Alaska and cruise lines face minimal 00:39:58.289 --> 00:40:01.190 fines like I said it's no skin off their back. 00:40:01.250 --> 00:40:04.510 With all that being said if they're in international 00:40:04.510 --> 00:40:07.590 waters they legally can dump sewage straight 00:40:07.590 --> 00:40:10.489 into the ocean without treating it in any way 00:40:10.489 --> 00:40:13.670 like they apparently do by cleaning it. And the 00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:17.250 EPA, which is the Environmental Protection Agency, 00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:20.469 estimates that a single 3 ,000 person cruise 00:40:20.469 --> 00:40:24.309 pumps 150 ,000 gallons of sewage into the ocean 00:40:24.309 --> 00:40:27.030 per week. That's more than one billion gallons 00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:29.349 per year. Yeah, and these ships are running year 00:40:29.349 --> 00:40:31.550 round. It's not like once the vacation is done, 00:40:31.550 --> 00:40:34.659 it just sits. Yeah, it just loads back. and goes 00:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.320 again and then those people poop and then they 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.579 need to dump it somewhere sewage is gross obviously 00:40:40.579 --> 00:40:42.960 but what's the big deal i know i was thinking 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:46.699 it like they use cow fertilizer for places and 00:40:46.699 --> 00:40:50.079 it's good for farmland ocean's a big spot yeah 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.219 gray water can lead to the spread of pathogenic 00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:56.679 bacteria and viruses and increase nutrient levels 00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:59.360 in the surrounding ecosystem sounds good right 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.000 this leads to massive increases of concentrated 00:41:03.340 --> 00:41:07.000 and phosphorus and causes toxic algal blooms 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.019 which removes oxygen from the water and creates 00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.659 dead zones suffocating fish crustaceans coral 00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:16.820 reefs and basically any marine life that could 00:41:16.820 --> 00:41:19.539 live in that I know they're underwater but they 00:41:19.539 --> 00:41:22.219 do need oxygen in the water to be able to breathe 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:25.460 and live and in just one year the cruise industry 00:41:25.460 --> 00:41:28.400 contributes to 1 billion gallons of sewage dumped 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.679 into the ocean and it's growing as the cruise 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:35.000 industry grows so does the sewage that it dumps 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.619 into the ocean, whether it's cleaned or not. 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.460 Total amount of garbage produced by a cruise 00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:44.119 ship carrying 2 ,700 passengers can exceed a 00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:47.900 ton per day. 2 ,700 is even less than the 3 ,000 00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:51.320 people, so that's huge. While cruise vessels 00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:53.760 make up only a small percentage of the global 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.179 shipping industry, it's estimated that around 00:41:56.179 --> 00:41:59.199 24 % of all waste produced by shipping comes 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.090 from cruise liners. This last one... that I'm 00:42:02.090 --> 00:42:04.590 going to touch on really, I mean, not that that 00:42:04.590 --> 00:42:07.170 other stuff isn't infuriating. This one really 00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:09.710 got to me. It's super sad, which is invasive 00:42:09.710 --> 00:42:12.750 species in marine life. Not that the inconceivable 00:42:12.750 --> 00:42:15.010 amount of pollution that is dumped into the ocean 00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:17.510 is not enough to put you up in arms about the 00:42:17.510 --> 00:42:20.250 cruise industry's impact on wildlife. I have 00:42:20.250 --> 00:42:23.590 much more to discuss. Another form of pollution 00:42:23.590 --> 00:42:27.230 introduced by cruise ship is ballast water pollution. 00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:29.650 I hope I said that right. Yeah, the ballast is 00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:32.550 ships take on water. in particular areas if they 00:42:32.550 --> 00:42:34.889 want to ride lower, and they can release that 00:42:34.889 --> 00:42:36.929 when they want to ride higher. That's exactly 00:42:36.929 --> 00:42:40.010 it. So cruise ships and other big vessels use 00:42:40.010 --> 00:42:43.170 a huge amount of ballast water to stabilize the 00:42:43.170 --> 00:42:45.429 ship while traveling, like exactly like Taylor 00:42:45.429 --> 00:42:48.429 said. As these vessels travel for a longer period, 00:42:48.550 --> 00:42:51.210 the ballast water is often filled from one region 00:42:51.210 --> 00:42:53.789 and discharged in another whenever required. 00:42:53.929 --> 00:42:56.269 The amount of ballast water released typically 00:42:56.269 --> 00:43:00.030 is around 1000 metric tons. This discharge of 00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:02.429 the ballast water from the cruise ship is a major 00:43:02.429 --> 00:43:05.090 cause of cruise pollution. Since the ballast 00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:11.090 water can contains microbes and microorganisms. 00:43:11.289 --> 00:43:14.150 In addition to vegetation and other sea animals, 00:43:14.309 --> 00:43:16.849 the pollution aspect is mainly caused by the 00:43:16.849 --> 00:43:19.550 local species and marine life. An example of 00:43:19.550 --> 00:43:23.010 such ecological damage would be the huge swell 00:43:23.010 --> 00:43:25.690 of the population of jellyfish in the Black Sea. 00:43:25.869 --> 00:43:28.510 This contributes largely to the introduction 00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:32.449 and spread of invasive species. Other impacts 00:43:32.449 --> 00:43:36.369 on marine life include noise pollution not above 00:43:36.369 --> 00:43:39.269 the water but below the water so you're on a 00:43:39.269 --> 00:43:42.210 cruise ship you can hear the engines revving 00:43:42.210 --> 00:43:45.250 nobody wants to be in a cruise ship stateroom 00:43:45.250 --> 00:43:47.570 that's close to the engines because it'll disrupt 00:43:47.570 --> 00:43:51.050 their sleep at being the gigantic engines required 00:43:51.050 --> 00:43:54.170 to propel these massive floating cities which 00:43:54.170 --> 00:43:57.550 is very minimal to you like above to marine life 00:43:57.550 --> 00:44:00.809 it has a huge impact the sound reverberates through 00:44:00.809 --> 00:44:03.769 the water for really long distances since noise 00:44:03.769 --> 00:44:07.239 travels further in water and it's so loud which 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.239 has a huge impact on animals and I'm just gonna 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.400 touch on mostly big marine animals in this but 00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.139 it does also have a huge impact on the smaller 00:44:17.139 --> 00:44:19.679 ones as well I'm not forgetting them they just 00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.300 have more studies done on the bigger ones such 00:44:22.300 --> 00:44:25.199 as whales and dolphins they're extremely dependent 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.400 on sound for basic life function most use echolocation 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.380 to hunt their prey communicate with others in 00:44:32.380 --> 00:44:36.719 their past or just species for many reasons including 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:41.099 mating, navigating the oceans, etc. Even just 00:44:41.099 --> 00:44:43.599 getting out a call to the other members of its 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.239 pod that there's danger or something like that. 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:48.880 If the ocean is so full of noise it makes it 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.179 harder for them to hunt, migrate, and talk to 00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:53.519 each other. Population of whales and dolphins 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:56.820 has declined in areas prone to such noise pollution 00:44:56.820 --> 00:45:00.159 from ships. It can also dislocate movement of 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.949 marine animals to new locations as They aren't 00:45:03.949 --> 00:45:06.289 being able to communicate and use echolocation 00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:08.969 the same so they'll find themselves in a completely 00:45:08.969 --> 00:45:11.369 different location that they didn't intend to. 00:45:11.710 --> 00:45:15.530 Deaths can occur due to hemorrhages and the impact 00:45:15.530 --> 00:45:18.329 of the loud noises to them. Deaths of animals 00:45:18.329 --> 00:45:21.349 can even be caused after exposure to extreme 00:45:21.349 --> 00:45:24.530 underwater noise including sonar which cruises 00:45:24.530 --> 00:45:29.070 also use navigating obstacles and bottom composition 00:45:29.070 --> 00:45:32.880 detection. beachings have also been reporting 00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.400 in Greece, Madeira, Hawaii, Spain, and coastal 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:39.940 US areas. And I'm pretty sure the correlation 00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:43.820 was with sonar on that one. That's not just cruise 00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:45.679 ships. That's sonar in general. It's not just 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:48.659 cruise ships. No, but cruise ships do. They contribute 00:45:48.659 --> 00:45:51.059 it as well, as well as all the other noise. And 00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.340 for a hearing based underwater group like whales 00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:57.679 and dolphins, the amount of noise pollution in 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.760 their life has just completely changed. how they 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:04.539 act as a species. It's fairly sad. It's so sad. 00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:06.980 And like the fact that a lot of scientists now 00:46:06.980 --> 00:46:09.239 believe that the good chunk of beached whales 00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:12.039 are literally just trying to get away from the 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.460 sound. Like they can't, they know what's going 00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:16.440 to kill them to get on land and they don't care 00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.920 at that point. And it's so, it's such a different 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:24.059 environment to being on land. um because it is 00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:27.639 generally a more quiet environment being down 00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:30.820 there but sound also travels so much and it's 00:46:30.820 --> 00:46:35.019 so sensitive to sound so yeah it's not even something 00:46:35.019 --> 00:46:37.719 that i thought about before reading this and 00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:40.360 it is very sad a blue whale can hear another 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:42.360 blue whale at the other end of the pacific ocean 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:45.320 like that's how loud those things are and how 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:48.280 well they can hear yeah that's super crazy how 00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:50.780 loud are they Or maybe it's just their hearing 00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:52.260 that's super good. It's a bit of both. I would 00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:54.460 have to check. It's pretty high volume, though. 00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:57.760 Yeah. It also changes their diving patterns, 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:02.119 their migration to newer places and damage to 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:05.659 internal organs and overall panic response to 00:47:05.659 --> 00:47:08.480 foreign sounds, just like Taylor said. For example, 00:47:08.539 --> 00:47:11.139 there is a mass stranding of giant squids in 00:47:11.139 --> 00:47:15.219 the coastal areas of Spain between 2001 and 2003, 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.019 just of the implications of noise pollution. 00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:20.550 And then Here's my little thing about the small 00:47:20.550 --> 00:47:22.989 guys in the ocean. It's not much. There's much 00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:25.909 more research done on whales and dolphins. They're 00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:30.230 a little easier to study, but in 2017 a study 00:47:30.230 --> 00:47:33.949 found that a loud blast of underwater noise killed 00:47:33.949 --> 00:47:37.610 nearly two -thirds of zooplankton in three -quarters 00:47:37.610 --> 00:47:40.309 of a mile on either side. Zooplankton, while 00:47:40.309 --> 00:47:43.309 incredibly small, provide a food source for everything 00:47:43.309 --> 00:47:46.750 from whales to shrimp. Krill, a tiny crustacean 00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:49.639 vital to whales and others. animals can be especially 00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:53.079 hard and their hearing is just as sensitive so 00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:55.920 they're just very fragile environments that we're 00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.219 screwing with with these cruise ships. Anything 00:47:58.219 --> 00:48:01.179 to add on that one? No. It's about to get sadder. 00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:04.000 Oh good. The cruise industry has a huge impact 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:07.179 on marine life as I'm really trying to hit home 00:48:07.179 --> 00:48:09.559 with I guess because I've repeated that a lot 00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:12.639 and even more shockingly there are as many deaths 00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.719 of marine life caused by the carelessness of 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:18.230 operators of these ships. I came across some 00:48:18.230 --> 00:48:20.510 pretty disturbing pictures here. So I'm going 00:48:20.510 --> 00:48:22.469 to tell you a few stories. The first one I'm 00:48:22.469 --> 00:48:26.030 going to tell you of is a humpback whale named 00:48:26.030 --> 00:48:30.369 Snow and she was a 45 foot pregnant humpback 00:48:30.369 --> 00:48:33.210 whale who was first identified by researchers 00:48:33.210 --> 00:48:37.409 in 1975. According to passengers and crew on 00:48:37.409 --> 00:48:40.309 board a Princess Cruise ship, everyone was excited 00:48:40.309 --> 00:48:43.130 that they had spotted humpback whales in Glacier 00:48:43.130 --> 00:48:47.250 Bay, Alaska in July 12, 2001. The whales were 00:48:47.250 --> 00:48:50.090 on a direct course to intersect with the ship. 00:48:50.190 --> 00:48:53.610 The Dawn Princess continued to accelerate from 00:48:53.610 --> 00:48:57.030 16 miles per hour and did not change course. 00:48:57.250 --> 00:49:00.110 One whale dove and the other did not and they 00:49:00.110 --> 00:49:02.769 were not seen again after that. Some reports 00:49:02.769 --> 00:49:05.369 of feeling the ship's shutter were made and there 00:49:05.369 --> 00:49:08.130 were no reports made to the National Park Service 00:49:08.130 --> 00:49:11.250 or any other agency and there was no made in 00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:16.610 the ship's log. Seeing a whale on a ship is a 00:49:16.610 --> 00:49:18.929 huge deal. They make announcements especially 00:49:18.929 --> 00:49:22.059 on cruise ships where that is a major thing that 00:49:22.059 --> 00:49:24.619 people are looking out for, so for it to not 00:49:24.619 --> 00:49:28.239 made it into ships logs. I know I've gone on 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.239 whale watching tours, even on ferries around 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.639 here. They'll announce when there's orcas. They'll 00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:36.960 announce, but there are protocols when there 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:40.940 are whales in the area. I believe they fly certain 00:49:40.940 --> 00:49:43.960 flags. there's a whale in the area I can't remember 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.039 exactly what it was they were telling us what 00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:49.059 it was but there's protocols and maybe they're 00:49:49.059 --> 00:49:51.579 new I don't know how new it is but yeah snow 00:49:51.579 --> 00:49:55.579 was found dead 16 July 2021 with a massive skull 00:49:55.579 --> 00:49:58.400 fracture consistent with being struck by a ship 00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:02.420 and by the way humpbacks are endangered princess 00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:05.039 cruise lines paid seven hundred and fifty thousand 00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.820 to settle charges that it failed to operate at 00:50:07.820 --> 00:50:10.860 ships in a safe manner near protective waters 00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:14.019 of Glacier Bay National Park. And one more for 00:50:14.019 --> 00:50:17.079 the famed Princess Cruise Lines for killing marine 00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:19.480 life. It's not that funny, but it is murder. 00:50:19.739 --> 00:50:23.360 The Grand Princess 2017 pulls into Ketchikan, 00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:27.199 Alaska with a carcass of a humpback whale on 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:31.250 its bow. No recollection or idea of how it got 00:50:31.250 --> 00:50:34.050 there and everybody was dumbfounded. It was actually 00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:36.489 the second time in a short period of time that 00:50:36.489 --> 00:50:38.869 this happened. And just the year before, Holland 00:50:38.869 --> 00:50:42.050 America's Zandam did the very same thing. Just 00:50:42.050 --> 00:50:45.349 pulled up with a whale on the bow of the ship. 00:50:45.409 --> 00:50:48.070 I did actually see a picture of this. It was 00:50:48.070 --> 00:50:50.789 pretty disturbing. Yeah, I don't want to know. 00:50:50.829 --> 00:50:53.030 I'm not going to share it, not only just because 00:50:53.030 --> 00:50:55.730 it crashes our whole thing, but it's disturbing. 00:50:56.030 --> 00:51:00.849 Yeah. So that's my part on pollution. and just 00:51:00.849 --> 00:51:04.789 general atrocities by the cruise industry. OK, 00:51:04.969 --> 00:51:08.769 thank you for the moral implications of cruise 00:51:08.769 --> 00:51:11.269 industries hit on the biome. Just a couple of 00:51:11.269 --> 00:51:13.610 things I wanted to hit on. Cruise industries 00:51:13.610 --> 00:51:17.409 have obviously been very hard hit over covid, 00:51:17.670 --> 00:51:22.110 which led me to see crazy rumor stories that 00:51:22.110 --> 00:51:24.710 the US has bailed out cruise ship companies, 00:51:24.789 --> 00:51:28.230 which a article on USA Today says is a mostly 00:51:28.230 --> 00:51:31.719 false rumor. Mostly when it turns out Carnival 00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:35.079 never publicly and as far as they know privately 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.639 Requested a bailout, but they did sell six billion 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:42.599 dollars in bonds to the US Federal Reserve Okay, 00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:44.960 which means they basically got a six billion 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.579 dollar loan No idea what the interest rate it 00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:49.559 is on it or if they'll ever have to pay it back 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.539 Cool. Yeah. Not only are they avoiding taxes, 00:51:52.820 --> 00:51:54.900 the US government is giving them a little bit 00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.039 of cash back to make sure they stay afloat in 00:51:57.039 --> 00:51:59.400 these trying times. And let's face it, they are 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:03.920 an absolute typhoid Mary of the pandemic. I like 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:06.139 what you did there. They are. After learning 00:52:06.139 --> 00:52:09.079 all this, is there anything that we can do about 00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.940 this? Well, first and foremost, if you're looking 00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:15.110 to take a vacation. I personally after reading 00:52:15.110 --> 00:52:18.389 all this would prefer that everybody not get 00:52:18.389 --> 00:52:20.909 on a cruise ship. There are many better ways 00:52:20.909 --> 00:52:23.550 to spend your vacations by visiting the next 00:52:23.550 --> 00:52:26.369 town over doing a staycation or flying to a town 00:52:26.369 --> 00:52:28.610 that you've never been to. Stay off the water 00:52:28.610 --> 00:52:31.469 if not at least for the nice whales to have a 00:52:31.469 --> 00:52:33.369 nice time. Yeah there's tons of other ways to 00:52:33.369 --> 00:52:36.469 have a vacation and not put it towards this industry 00:52:36.469 --> 00:52:40.110 that is exploiting everything. Humans, animals. 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:45.900 Yeah, if you absolutely have to take a cruise, 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.760 may I suggest the pride of America? It is the 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:53.400 only. cruise ship that has the US flag as its 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:56.000 flag of not convenience, its registration. All 00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:57.860 right, how many stars are on it? Are we sure? 00:52:58.099 --> 00:53:00.599 It would be. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It's actually 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:03.460 a weird story because it's Norwegian Cruise Lines 00:53:03.460 --> 00:53:06.059 that owns it because the company that built it 00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:09.139 went under and for it to register in the US, 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.659 it needed to be built in the US. But the company 00:53:11.659 --> 00:53:14.460 that was building it went under. And to finish 00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:16.500 it off, they actually sent it to Germany to get 00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:18.539 all the insides finished up and then sent it 00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:20.440 back. And they still considered it American built 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.300 so it could register. It mostly does cruises 00:53:23.300 --> 00:53:25.900 in and around Hawaii. So if you're looking to 00:53:25.900 --> 00:53:28.860 do a cruise, I would highly recommend that one, 00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:32.000 as they have to abide by all American laws. That 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.820 doesn't seem that bad. There's also something 00:53:34.820 --> 00:53:38.280 that I found for friends of the Earth. They have 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:41.039 a cruise report card that you can go through 00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:44.369 all of the different categories sewage treatment 00:53:44.369 --> 00:53:47.550 air pollution reduction water quality compliance 00:53:47.550 --> 00:53:52.269 transparency criminal violations it is and perhaps 00:53:52.269 --> 00:53:55.309 we can post it up friends of the earth which 00:53:55.309 --> 00:54:00.110 is foe .org slash cruise dash report dash card 00:54:00.110 --> 00:54:02.489 and it has all that information on there as well 00:54:02.489 --> 00:54:05.789 broken down by cruise lines and if you do end 00:54:05.789 --> 00:54:08.869 up on a cruise and anything goes wrong i would 00:54:08.869 --> 00:54:11.730 urge you to first off see a lawyer but there 00:54:11.730 --> 00:54:15.250 are also other avenues of reach out internationalcruisevictims 00:54:15.250 --> 00:54:18.429 .org does have a lot of resources to help you 00:54:18.429 --> 00:54:20.489 get through any issues you may be having with 00:54:20.489 --> 00:54:25.289 the industry. And with that, I think we can wash 00:54:25.289 --> 00:54:28.449 our hands of this dirty industry. Yes, we can. 00:54:28.630 --> 00:54:31.829 Any parting thoughts, Chelsea? As with everything, 00:54:32.289 --> 00:54:34.989 I mean, corporations are corporations. But the 00:54:34.989 --> 00:54:38.570 only way to do anything with these things is 00:54:38.570 --> 00:54:42.559 to stop buying it. really just take its funds 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:46.440 away. But I mean, so many people don't know the 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.920 problems that are associated with these corporations. 00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:52.920 And cruise lines are another one of them. I know 00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.300 we've done a few on different corporations. And 00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:57.840 it's just you look at this information, you go, 00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:00.179 oh, that's so appalling that they could operate 00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:02.360 that like that. Yet it's something that's so 00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:05.179 popular to do. And it just keeps growing. Part 00:55:05.179 --> 00:55:08.760 of it is, is because They don't really have any 00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.039 legislation that they need to follow or regulations. 00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:14.699 It's hidden very well. They can offer significantly 00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:18.260 cheaper vacations compared to just flying to 00:55:18.260 --> 00:55:20.559 one place and staying there the entire time. 00:55:20.659 --> 00:55:23.380 I know a lot of cities are now getting wise to 00:55:23.380 --> 00:55:25.860 cruise ships and are now saying that we don't 00:55:25.860 --> 00:55:28.980 let cruise ships dock or if they dock we don't 00:55:28.980 --> 00:55:31.420 let any of the tourists out or if the tourists 00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:34.039 can go out there limited to very specific regions 00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:36.400 of the city that they can go to or very particular 00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:40.260 beaches. I did read another thing and this probably 00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:43.360 isn't the time to bring it up. about cruise ships 00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:47.360 bullying ports for raising taxes. They threaten 00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:51.179 to pull out of the ports entirely so that the 00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:54.280 ports make very little money, if any money, which 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.260 goes along kind of with what wages they're paying 00:55:57.260 --> 00:56:01.039 their workers. And they have such a... impact 00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:06.119 on what they push to passengers on board as far 00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.500 as where they go when they get off the ship. 00:56:08.739 --> 00:56:11.960 Yeah, they get a very large commission for people 00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.639 going on very specific tours. And then people 00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.219 will pay off the cruise line for them to recommend 00:56:16.219 --> 00:56:19.699 that tour, if not one directly off. Cruise ships 00:56:19.699 --> 00:56:23.159 have been famous for even building their own 00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:25.199 islands so that they don't have to stop at a 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:29.239 port of call to give a port money or I believe 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:31.860 that it was Belize where they would come off 00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:33.980 the cruise ship and it was a major thing when 00:56:33.980 --> 00:56:35.719 they got off the cruise ship they were kind of 00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:38.519 all herded over to this boardwalk where they 00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:41.900 could buy things and the cruise line had developed 00:56:41.900 --> 00:56:44.699 a little bit and invested half of the boardwalk 00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:47.940 therefore they regained all of the entry the 00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:50.880 port taxes that they paid gaining it back from 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.460 the increase because of this boardwalk it's just 00:56:53.460 --> 00:56:55.860 like the labor laws and stuff that they're getting 00:56:55.860 --> 00:56:58.699 around they kind of strong -arm the little communities 00:56:58.699 --> 00:57:02.159 that are poor and rely on the tourism that they 00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:04.719 bring in. And especially with the bigger cities, 00:57:05.019 --> 00:57:06.960 they don't really. Yeah, it's nice to have those 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.300 10 ,000 people stop in for a day or two, but 00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:11.739 it's not like that vital at the end of the day 00:57:11.739 --> 00:57:14.260 to the city. They can eventually say no, like 00:57:14.260 --> 00:57:17.440 buzz off. You're destroying. Are our tourism 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.400 you're destroying our beaches you're destroying 00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.440 our waterways get the hell out of here not the 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.599 smaller towns like their economies are built 00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:27.219 around these things stopping at i mean who's 00:57:27.219 --> 00:57:30.420 really gonna give a crap about a city that they're 00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:33.940 stopping in for five hours. Or so when you're 00:57:33.940 --> 00:57:35.920 getting off, you're going to treat it like a 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:39.679 garbage can, too. And it's just I mean, it that 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:42.539 cruises symbolism for that because they just 00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:45.480 I mean, it's not doing any good for the environments 00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.820 that they're stopping in. Hell, this episode 00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:49.960 draws a lot of parallels with the Panama Papers 00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.760 episode, because at the end of the day, they're 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:57.519 small island nations that outside of this revenue 00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:00.039 don't really have anything. It's true. Yeah. 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:03.079 So they take both. Yeah. and they just get pushed 00:58:03.079 --> 00:58:06.119 around but that's i think all we have everybody 00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:08.239 can get back to their happy lives hopefully cruise 00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.099 free but we'll see from here next week we're 00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.260 going to be talking about time slips which is 00:58:14.260 --> 00:58:17.840 a fun little fringy topic in itself that you 00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:21.159 can listen to at any point in time preferably 00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:25.159 earlier for the numbers if you are a company 00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:28.849 or industry that has just listened to this and 00:58:28.849 --> 00:58:32.550 has its own seedy underbelly that its worries 00:58:32.550 --> 00:58:35.150 might be exposed. Please remember that we are 00:58:35.150 --> 00:58:37.210 looking for advertisers, and if you don't want 00:58:37.210 --> 00:58:39.230 us to do an episode, you're more than welcome 00:58:39.230 --> 00:58:44.449 to advertise. And. I thought I had something 00:58:44.449 --> 00:58:48.170 clever to say, but I didn't. OK, you should edit 00:58:48.170 --> 00:58:52.730 that out. No, I think you can stay. In the meantime, 00:58:52.989 --> 00:58:55.380 I have been Taylor. I have been Chelsea. And 00:58:55.380 --> 00:58:57.559 we have been Journey Through the Fringe. Thanks 00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:00.059 for stopping by. We'll see you next time. Bye.