WEBVTT

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Now, Chelsea, have you been following what's

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been going on in the Colorado area with regards

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to the wildfires over the New Year's break? Not

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in any detail. I know that they're happening.

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And I think I briefly heard a timeline, but I

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can't remember it. OK, just outside of Boulder,

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Colorado, and in fact, in Boulder, Colorado,

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there's been a fairly large fire. It started

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on Thursday. I believe that's December the 30th.

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Snowfall thankfully has brought it under control

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and mostly out at this point, but while the martial

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fires they're calling it now was wreaking havoc,

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at least two people are left missing still and

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more than 1 ,000 houses and businesses were destroyed

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or damaged in the fire that blitzed. a 10 square

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mile area in Boulder County around the towns

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of Superior. It has snowed which has helped firefighters

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get the flames under control but the snow has

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complicated the search for the two missing people

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and the investigation into the fire's origins

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which still remain kind of heated but has had

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a blanket put over it in the worst punny way

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to explain what's going on there. Now I stumbled

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across information on this on the subreddit known

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as Collapse. There's an area between Denver and

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Boulder called Rocky Flats. It used to be a plutonium

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weapons manufacturing plant. It has had a troubled

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history. I'm just going to run through it really

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quick and why it's being brought up with regards

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to the Marshall fires. The Rocky Flats plant,

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a former U .S. nuclear weapons production facility

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located about 15 miles northwest of Denver, caused

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radioactive... It's only 15 miles? Yeah, it's

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close. It's basically a suburb. Okay. Primarily

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plutonium radioactive contamination within and

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outside its boundaries. The contamination primarily

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resulted from two major plutonium fires in 1957

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and 1969 and from windblown plutonium that leaked

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from the barrels of radioactive waste. Much lower

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concentrations of radioactive isotopes were released

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throughout the operational life of the plant

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from 1952 to 1992 and from the smaller accidents

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and from normal operational releases of plutonium

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particles too small to be filtered. Prevailing

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winds from the planet carried airborne contamination

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south and east into populated areas northwest.

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West of Denver. The contamination of the Denver

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area by plutonium from the fires and other sources

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was publicly reported until the 1970s. According

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to a 1972 study co -authored by Edward Martel,

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in the more densely populated areas of Denver,

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the plutonium contamination levels in surface

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soils is several times that of fallout. And that's

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Denver. And that's Denver. And the plutonium

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contamination just east of the Rocky Flats plant

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ranges up to hundreds of times that from nuclear

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tests. Exposure of a large population of the

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Denver area to plutonium and other radionuclides

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in the exhaust plumes from the plant date back

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to 1953. Now weapons production at the plant

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was halted after a combined FBI and EPA raid

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occurred in 1989 and years in protest. The plant

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has since been shut down with buildings demolished

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and completely removed from the site. The Rocky

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Flats plant was declared a superfund site in

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1999 and began its transformation to a cleanup

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site in 1992. Removal of the plant and surface

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contamination was largely completed in the late

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1990s and early 2000s, and nearly all underground

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contamination was left in place. Measurable radioactive

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environmental contaminations in and around Rocky

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Flats will probably persist. The land formerly

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occupied by the plant is now Rocky Flats National

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Wildlife Refuge, and plans to make this refuge

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accessible for recreation have been repeatedly

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delayed due to lack of funding and protested

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by citizen organizations. I'm surprised that

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this whole area is not a biohazard, including

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Denver. Would it not be considered that? I have

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no idea. This is not my area of expertise, but

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I do know like areas like Chernobyl does have

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basically act as a wildlife sanctuary just for

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the fact that there's no humans there. Yeah.

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It's not like a government wildlife sanctuary

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though. Yeah. It's somewhat disturbing, but they

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do say they've cleaned it up. So I don't know.

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They also do apparently watch and ensure that

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the radioactivity in the area stays low. But

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the person who posted this, it's a user on Reddit

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by the name of Fish Disciple, did add some concerning

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areas about it, particularly the cleanup effort

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was originally projected to take 65 years and

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37 billion. to do properly, but after only 10

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years and $7 billion, most of which went to administrators,

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the cleanup effort was heralded as a success

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and the Superfund site was opened up for both

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property development and recreation. One might

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argue the cleanup effort was half -assed or even

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deliberately negligent. For example, only the

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top three feet of contaminated soil was cleaned

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up, even though contamination is known to be

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much deeper and natural processes routinely bring

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up soil from 16 feet and below. This is the case

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even when excluding criminal dumping and incineration

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of radioactive waste clandestinely undertaken

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by the plant. For nearly the last 20 years there

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has been insufficient testing and monitoring

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of radioactive contamination in the area which

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again is driven by commercial interests in the

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present day. Basically saying it would be inconvenient

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for corporate interests to actually have radioactivity

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there so they don't worry about it. Yeah, of

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course it's the corporations in the end that

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have the final say in it. It is imperative that

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those in impacted areas, especially in the context

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of the Marshall fires, be aware of the clear

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and present danger, namely plutonium 239. This

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is an alpha emitter, meaning you can be harmed

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by breathing or ingesting its particulates. So

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the reason it's brought up is because this is

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an area close to Boulder. It's right in between

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Boulder and Denver. Should this area ever burn,

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there's a distinct chance of ash and soil and

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debris and wind bring contamination from it basically

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wherever the winds may take it usually in a close

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area but hell winds we get smoke in Canada from

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wildfires in California that stuff travels not

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only that I mean with the weather changes that

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are happening today it's not just this wildfire

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that's probably a risk to it it's probably any

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number of things that are a risk to this and

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how many people in the area know that there's

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like super high radiation levels or at least

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was at one point Yes. Yeah. I mean, how many

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of those people would continue living there,

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I wonder. But there's all these things you don't

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know. Like it could be like a million areas of

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the world for people who are trying to do cover

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ups. Yeah. And especially from this time period,

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because a lot of things during the Cold War were

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undertaken for the greater good of defeating

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the Reds, the communists, and are covered up

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fairly significantly. There was a response from

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a poster. on reddit as well by the name of crispyneggs

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that I thought was important to look at here.

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Reddit has some good usernames. They have great

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usernames. They make everything sound super legit.

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Yeah. So he said, great to see info about Rocky

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Flats here. It was an absolute shit show from

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start to finish, even though it's not finished,

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nor will it be for eons. Not only did they pick

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a terrible site to build the facility on due

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to the population density nearby, they also managed

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to pick one of the windiest hillsides on earth

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to build it on. For those wondering if they should

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move into those nice new neighborhoods they built

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along the Rocky Flats border, the answer in my

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opinion is an astounding no. Nor would I ever

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personally visit any of the wildlife habitats,

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quote unquote, they so nicely opened up around

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it. I hate even driving by on 93 and avoid Marshall

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Road if I can. It's a good idea to educate yourself

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on the history of this place if you are considering

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moving to a nearby area and especially if you

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live in the nearby area. As sad and aggravating

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as that is, the DOE really did a number on this

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one and it shouldn't be allowed to be covered

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up by them. So this is an area that is being

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developed. It has new houses going in there and

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it's something to be aware of. Of course it's

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something to be made money on. This isn't even

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fire season. This is the middle of December.

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North America is not supposed to burn for another

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couple months. We're in all sorts of trouble.

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And then you add in plutonium. And this is just

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one site that happened to be brought up. while

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a forest fire was nearby, there are definitely

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more sites out there with regards to unknown

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contaminants of radiation in the soil that could

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cause harm. Scary. One to bring up to keep an

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eye on if you're in that area, and aren't we

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the fun time? Always. With that, let's ring in

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the new year and get back to what we do best,

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educating you on fringe topics. From the unexplained

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to the mundane, come join us on a Journey to

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the Fringe. Hello and welcome to Journey to the

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Fringe. We are coming to you live from the steamy

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foreplay to the end of modern human civilization

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as we know it, more commonly known as the year

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2022. We are your host, Taylor and Chelsea, here

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to educate you on all matters of fringy materials.

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And today we are going to be covering some historical

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facts. These are all very proven things. There's

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little speculation involved in it all, as there

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always is. But this is well documented, widely

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accessible. There are many different people talking

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about it out there. But if you are looking with

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your new use resolution to bone up on some education,

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then bone we shall today. Let's get down to it.

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I think a good way to break this down is to talk

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about Operation Paperclip. Well, it is a US operation.

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which take place just after World War Two. To

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set it up, I find it is important to talk about

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the end of World War One, although technically

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never happened. It is canon to the story. It's

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like the movies to Dragon Ball, although technically

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don't exist. They are canon. So we do need to

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bring it up. World War One didn't happen. Yeah.

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Remember we covered that in the Mandela effect.

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Right. So we're going to talk about that. We're

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going to talk about the actors coming up from

00:09:49.509 --> 00:09:53.179
World War One. in Canon to World War II. From

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there, I'm going to talk about what actually

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happened during World War II, the ending of it.

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Chelsea is then going to talk about Operation

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Paperclip from there. So. To begin our story,

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I think it is important to talk about a little

00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:11.230
nation more commonly known as Russia. Undergoing

00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:14.909
some growing pains, I guess, is an apt way to

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describe it. Moving from the backwards hillbilly

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arm of Europe and to what is going to be a fairly

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formidable opponent in the next 40 years. That

00:10:26.029 --> 00:10:28.629
was a beautiful way to describe it. Okay, I'm

00:10:28.629 --> 00:10:31.049
glad you liked it. It is truly astounding that

00:10:31.049 --> 00:10:33.169
the transformation this country undergoes. It

00:10:33.169 --> 00:10:35.769
goes from one of the poorest nations in the world

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to commonly thought of as number one or number

00:10:38.250 --> 00:10:40.029
two in the superpowers in the world in the span

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of 40 years and getting the first man into space.

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Like it is crazy what happens here. I never thought

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of it that way. Yeah, I learned a whole bunch

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of new stuff on this episode though. So okay,

00:10:50.610 --> 00:10:53.789
that's good added to the list So canonically

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britain france and russia formed a triple on

00:10:56.610 --> 00:10:59.409
font during world war one and allied themselves

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against the german forces The us joined them

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as self -styled associated power in march of

00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:09.490
1917 an important thing happens in 1917 and that

00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:12.669
is that the bolsheviks soviets seize power in

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russia in november, but germany armies advanced

00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:17.750
rapidly across the borderlands while this was

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going on. The Allies responded with an economic

00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:22.279
blockade against all of Russia, and in early

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March of 1918, the Soviets followed through on

00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:28.279
the wave of popular disgust against the war that

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thrived in Russia, and accepted harsh German

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peace terms, with the Treaty of Brest -Litovsk.

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In the eyes of the Allies, Russia now was helping

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Germany win the war by freeing up a million German

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soldiers on the Eastern Front, and by relinquishing

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much of Russia's food supply, industrial base,

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fuel supplies, and communications with Western

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Europe. was widely unpopular in Russia, and they

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were not equipped to actually fight this war.

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They were losing badly. The communists who took

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power basically said this is a widely unpopular

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war, let's get out of it as fast as we can, and

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they gave up basically all the border lines.

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They gave up Poland, Ukraine, many of the border

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nations that had all of its infrastructure, all

00:12:05.659 --> 00:12:08.899
of its farmland, and although necessary to get

00:12:08.899 --> 00:12:12.500
it. out, it pissed off its allies in general

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as helping the enemy keep fighting in this war.

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According to historian Spencer Tucker, the Allies

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felt the treaty was the ultimate betrayal of

00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.879
the allied cause and sowed the seeds of the Cold

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War from here. And this is the big part. The

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USSR repudiates all debts from the Tsarist era

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of Russia, commonly thought of as a bad move

00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:38.120
by fancy people the world over. And once World

00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.039
War I actually ends, in 1918, Britain sent in

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money and some troops to support the anti -Bolshevik

00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.539
white counterrevolution. This policy was spearheaded

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by Minister of War, and you wouldn't actually

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know his name, Winston Churchill. I do know that

00:12:51.620 --> 00:12:54.460
name. He decided he wanted to fight the communists

00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:57.860
early on in their civil war, as did France, Japan,

00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:00.259
and the United States, who also sent forces to

00:13:00.259 --> 00:13:02.500
help decide the Russian Civil War in the whites'

00:13:02.779 --> 00:13:05.440
favor. However, Lenin made peaceful overtures

00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.559
to Wilson and the American leaders responded

00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:09.559
by sending diplomat William Bullitt to Moscow.

00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.980
Allies ultimately rejected the ceasefire terms

00:13:11.980 --> 00:13:14.340
which Bullitt negotiated, believing that a white

00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:17.220
victory was imminent. And I don't know if many

00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:19.940
of you know this, but the October Revolution

00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:23.159
in Russia, despite the fact that all the international

00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:26.580
help sent to the whites, the Reds came out successful.

00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:32.260
Because of all of this going on, the USSR largely

00:13:32.260 --> 00:13:36.340
became a hermit state for the next 15 to 20 years.

00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:39.940
All history we know, right? Maybe. Okay. But

00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:42.779
then under FDR, the US entered trade agreements

00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:46.139
with the USSR. This is after Lenin had died,

00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.620
Stalin is now in power. The long delay was caused

00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.230
by Moscow's repudiation of the Tsarist era. debts

00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:53.610
and its threats to overthrow capitalism using

00:13:53.610 --> 00:13:56.669
local communist parties. By 1933 these issues

00:13:56.669 --> 00:13:58.929
have faded and the opportunity for greater trade

00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:01.429
appealed to Washington. They did come to these

00:14:01.429 --> 00:14:03.389
agreements and they said at a later date maybe

00:14:03.389 --> 00:14:05.809
we'll talk about the Tsarist debts. They never

00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:08.350
end up getting around to it. So there is actually

00:14:08.350 --> 00:14:10.830
some communication between Russia and the US

00:14:10.830 --> 00:14:13.470
at this time which is building to a relationship

00:14:13.470 --> 00:14:16.769
however there are still very fancy and important

00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:18.830
people in the US that are pissed off that they

00:14:18.830 --> 00:14:23.360
lost money in World War I. Of course. Then, a

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.899
man steps onto the stage known as Adolf Hitler

00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:28.820
in Germany, generally thought of as a bad person,

00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.919
but he also ends up becoming the person that

00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:32.820
kills Hitler, and how can the person that kills

00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:36.899
Hitler be all that bad? Supposedly. Supposedly,

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.419
yes. If we were to leave the common story, which

00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.720
isn't going to be disputed in this episode. I

00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.679
was just putting it out there. Yeah. Nobody saw

00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:49.759
him die. Continue. Okay, Adolf Hitler comes onto

00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:53.100
the stage and the West embraces a position of

00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:56.120
appeasement to Adolf Hitler. They signed the

00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.879
Munich Pact in 1938, which gave partial control

00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.039
of Czechoslovakia to the Nazis. As you may know,

00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.539
Nazis and the Soviet Union had fairly opposite

00:15:07.539 --> 00:15:10.960
ends of the political spectrum views. For a long

00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.570
time Stalin felt that Hitler was an enemy, that

00:15:14.570 --> 00:15:16.789
they were to fight fascism around the world,

00:15:16.909 --> 00:15:19.629
and that they also weren't in position to take

00:15:19.629 --> 00:15:22.950
on Hitler on their own. So with the West taking

00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.330
on a view of appeasing Adolf Hitler, Russia felt

00:15:26.330 --> 00:15:29.029
stranded and they felt that their only way to

00:15:29.029 --> 00:15:31.769
proceed forward was to enter into an agreement

00:15:31.769 --> 00:15:34.940
with the Nazis. And I saw this described in two

00:15:34.940 --> 00:15:36.919
different ways on Wikipedia, on two different

00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:38.879
Wikipedia articles, so I wanted to read both

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.080
of them just so you can see how like opposite

00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.039
these are. In 1939, after conducting negotiations

00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.460
with both the French and the British group, and

00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:48.759
Germany regarding potential military and political

00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:50.980
agreements, the Soviet Union and Germany signed

00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:53.139
a commercial agreement providing for the trade

00:15:53.139 --> 00:15:55.399
of certain German military and civilian equipment

00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:57.980
in exchange for Soviet raw materials. And the

00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:00.980
Molotov -Ribbentrop Pact, commonly named after

00:16:00.980 --> 00:16:03.059
the foreign secretaries of the two countries,

00:16:03.379 --> 00:16:05.200
which included a secret agreement to split Poland

00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.539
and Eastern Europe between the two states. One

00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:11.690
description. Next one. In 1938 -39, the Soviet

00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:14.129
Union attempted to form strong military alliances

00:16:14.129 --> 00:16:17.029
with Germany's enemies, including Poland, France,

00:16:17.129 --> 00:16:19.490
and Great Britain, but they all refused. In an

00:16:19.490 --> 00:16:21.990
effort to delay a Nazi invasion and build up

00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:24.590
the Soviet military, Stalin made a non -aggression

00:16:24.590 --> 00:16:27.450
pact with Hitler and received control of a large

00:16:27.450 --> 00:16:29.929
swath of Eastern Europe, including the Baltic

00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.309
countries. The agreement provided for large sales

00:16:32.309 --> 00:16:35.029
of Russian grain and oil to Germany, while Germany

00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:37.009
would share its military technology with the

00:16:37.009 --> 00:16:39.600
Soviet Union. ensuring the Molotov -Ribbentrop

00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.500
Pact astonished the world and signaled the war

00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.720
would start very soon. French historian Francois

00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.200
Furey says, The pact signed in Moscow by Ribbentrop

00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.620
and Molotov on August 23, 1939 inaugurated the

00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.600
alliance between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It

00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.340
was presented as an alliance and not just a non

00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.759
-aggression pact. Other historians dispute the

00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:01.679
characterization of this treaty as an alliance

00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.299
because Hitler secretly intended to invade the

00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:07.400
USSR in the future. And do you see that? Like

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.279
one kind of shows it as no alternative option,

00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:12.839
as they were abandoned by other powers. And the

00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.079
other says that they actively sought out this

00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:16.920
relationship. I just found it interesting that

00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.400
they were both found on Wikipedia, just in different

00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.220
spots. Yeah, I find that a lot with Wikipedia

00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:24.799
as well. Maybe that's why it's not a good resource.

00:17:24.940 --> 00:17:28.119
Or maybe it just gives you some good, good starting

00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.319
points on things. Yeah. But anyhow, regardless

00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.640
of what you think of this relationship in June

00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.190
of 1941, Nazis invaded the USSR in what is called

00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:39.670
Operation Barbarossa, and that is ostensibly

00:17:39.670 --> 00:17:42.490
what severs the relationship. It's a lot of question

00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:45.910
about why the Soviet Union allied with the Nazis

00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:48.809
at that time. I don't think it's worth speculating

00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:51.930
at this time as there's tons to talk about and

00:17:51.930 --> 00:17:55.049
it's not as important to the topic at hand. Okay,

00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:57.609
very good. But before we actually get into the

00:17:57.609 --> 00:17:59.529
war, I wanted to talk about what America is doing

00:17:59.529 --> 00:18:02.710
this whole time. and it is a whole lot of sitting

00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:06.109
on the fence post. They had a hard time not liking

00:18:06.109 --> 00:18:09.369
the Nazis. A lot of them. This is all pre -war.

00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:12.289
There is still a lot during the war and after

00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:14.890
the war of people who really liked the Nazis,

00:18:15.009 --> 00:18:17.490
but I'm just going to focus on the pre -war times.

00:18:17.809 --> 00:18:20.880
There is, of course, Prescott Bush. some of you

00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.039
may know who that is for those of you who don't

00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.420
it is great grandpa no sorry just grandfather

00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:30.539
to george bush the president from 2000 to 2008

00:18:30.539 --> 00:18:34.660
and the father to george hw bush president from

00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:40.420
1988 to 1992 he ran very many businesses that

00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.240
I'm just gonna say it this way. The Harriman

00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.799
papers in the Library of Congress show that Prescott

00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.660
Bush was a director and shareholder of a number

00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:50.779
of companies involved with FISAE. He is a fairly

00:18:50.779 --> 00:18:54.220
high -up German Nazi who was trying to invest

00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:56.819
around the world. From October 20th, 1942, the

00:18:56.819 --> 00:18:59.460
alien property custodian sees the assets of UBC,

00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.740
of which Prescott Bush was a director. Having

00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:04.079
gone through the books of the bank, further seizures

00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.539
were made against the two affiliates. and the

00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:08.539
Holland American Trading Corporation and the

00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:11.000
Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation were also

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.339
seized of which Prescott Bush was involved. By

00:19:13.339 --> 00:19:16.960
November, the Silesian American Company, another

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.440
of Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.400
A report issued by the Office of Alien Property

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.039
Custodian in 1942 stated of the companies that

00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.059
since 1939, these steel and mining properties

00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:30.200
have been in possession of and have been operated

00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.240
by the German government and have undoubtedly

00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.339
been of considerable assistance to that country's

00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:37.880
war effort. Interesting. Also, during this time,

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:39.720
Prescott Bush gets implicated in what's called

00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.500
the business lot, which was snively Butler, a

00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:46.279
fairly prominent military personality of that

00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:48.940
time basically dated to Congress that he was

00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:51.720
approached by many elite individuals within the

00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.279
US that they wanted to overthrow the government

00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:59.619
and put him in as a dictator, although Most of

00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:01.779
his claims are thought to be overblown. There

00:20:01.779 --> 00:20:04.500
is wide belief that there is something to what's

00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.920
called the business plot. I wouldn't doubt it

00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.140
by what you just said. That is an episode in

00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:11.200
itself that we could do in the future as well.

00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:17.880
This is a video of a pro -nazi rally held at

00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:25.359
Madison Square Garden in 1939. What? what we

00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.079
are actively fighting for under our charter.

00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:34.579
First, a social just white gentile ruled United

00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:41.480
States. Second, gentile controlled labor union,

00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.220
free from Jewish Moscow -directed domination.

00:20:49.859 --> 00:20:53.680
So I think that gives you a good idea of What

00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:55.900
I'm trying to say there. Yeah, that's always

00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:58.440
like disturbing to see something like that one

00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.599
because we now know what the Nazis were up to

00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.940
I don't know if they knew at that time fully

00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:07.720
and like people are so easily Manipulated and

00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:09.940
you look at that and I just feel like with all

00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:12.539
the hatred that's being spewn right now It would

00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:15.740
be so easy to do that again to turn like everybody

00:21:15.740 --> 00:21:18.220
again because there's already against one another

00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:20.380
I think it's important to talk about this just

00:21:20.380 --> 00:21:24.119
because it's taken as a given at this time now

00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:26.910
that Nazis were the bad guys by at least a majority

00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:29.630
of people in the Western world. This was not

00:21:29.630 --> 00:21:32.490
the case pre -World War II. There was a distinct

00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:35.410
split within society on which side was actually

00:21:35.410 --> 00:21:39.549
right in this war. There were two fairly prominent

00:21:39.549 --> 00:21:42.900
groups In the US, one was called the Friends

00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:46.420
of New Germany. I could not find a count of how

00:21:46.420 --> 00:21:48.200
many people were involved in the Friends of New

00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.420
Germany, but there was them and they ended up

00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:54.279
getting taken over by the, not taken over, but

00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:56.319
the Friends of New Germany dissolved in the 1930s

00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.059
and the German -American Bund took over in 1935.

00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:02.839
And I do believe that the man that was speaking

00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.859
was Fritz Kuhn, who was the leader of the German

00:22:05.859 --> 00:22:08.059
-American Bund. And that lasted until America

00:22:08.059 --> 00:22:12.220
formally joined the war. in 1941. Their registry

00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:15.220
was fairly significant. At least in New York,

00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:17.819
they were able to sell out Madison Square Gardens

00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:20.740
at the time and had a large group in Chicago.

00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.039
Although, again, I could not find their official

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.039
count as to how many people were involved in

00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.000
each group. I wouldn't imagine you could very

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:31.559
easily. Yeah, at this point. And it wasn't just

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:35.299
the US population at large that was split on

00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:38.759
what would actually happen here. Many US corporations

00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:42.390
saw that there was money to be made in Germany

00:22:42.390 --> 00:22:45.369
at this time, or at least didn't back away from

00:22:45.369 --> 00:22:48.569
making money in Germany at the time. Kodak, subsidiaries

00:22:48.569 --> 00:22:51.109
of the Eastman Kodak Company traded with Nazi

00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:53.630
Germany long after America had entered the war.

00:22:54.069 --> 00:22:56.210
Archived documents provide a glimpse of the attitude

00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:58.630
of some US and British government officials during

00:22:58.630 --> 00:23:00.910
that period who were unwilling to impose any

00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.829
sanctions against the firms, recommending instead

00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:06.670
that Kodak continue trading to preserve its market

00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:11.720
position. IBM is a US company and in Germany

00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.660
asked IBM to record the internment, movement,

00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:16.940
execution, and ethnic backgrounds of citizens

00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.819
throughout Europe. Not only did IBM do this and

00:23:19.819 --> 00:23:22.119
think it was okay, but they trained Nazis to

00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.079
use their equipment, which also stayed as the

00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.099
property of IBM that entire time. GM in 1935

00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:31.359
built a military factory in Berlin and was the

00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.140
reason that the Nazis were able to invade Poland

00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:36.819
and the rubber they provided is credited as being

00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:38.900
the biggest reason Germany was in a position

00:23:38.900 --> 00:23:43.259
to wage world war two. I mean that's not funny

00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:46.420
but like that's a pretty crazy fact. I mean it's

00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:49.259
you leave it it can come down to one like big

00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:51.259
corporation and they're like now we can make

00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:53.809
money. Yeah. And there's, of course, the Ford

00:23:53.809 --> 00:23:56.369
Motor Company. Although they are implicated themselves,

00:23:56.470 --> 00:23:58.990
I more so wanted to focus on Henry Ford, whom

00:23:58.990 --> 00:24:02.349
Hitler kept a portrait of in his office. And

00:24:02.349 --> 00:24:05.230
Henry Ford also was awarded the Grand Cross of

00:24:05.230 --> 00:24:08.369
the German Eagle on his 75th birthday on July

00:24:08.369 --> 00:24:11.569
30th, 1938. He never distanced himself from the

00:24:11.569 --> 00:24:13.809
Nazis, never offering to return the award. He

00:24:13.809 --> 00:24:16.450
held on to it his entire life. And Russian slaves

00:24:16.450 --> 00:24:19.630
were used in the Ford factory in Cologne, some

00:24:19.630 --> 00:24:22.759
1200, most of whom who died. Ford was on the

00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.380
committee of the America First Association to

00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:28.880
stay out of World War II as well. Wow, some heavy

00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.359
stuff that I didn't know. Yeah, and the US had

00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:35.400
already seen a wave of communism sweep through

00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.440
it a little bit. It wasn't as successful. in

00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.400
the US as other parts of the world, like Russia.

00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:44.660
But from jail, Eugene Debs, who ran to be president

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:47.140
under the Socialist Party of the US, received

00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:50.640
over a million votes in 1920. And in 1948, Henry

00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.960
Wallace received just under 1 .2 million votes

00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:54.859
for president running under the Communist Party

00:24:54.859 --> 00:24:58.559
in the US. So there's pushback from the other

00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.430
side with those parties as well. All of this

00:25:01.430 --> 00:25:05.289
kind of leads to the US first off staying out

00:25:05.289 --> 00:25:07.849
of the war for a long time it being very unpopular

00:25:07.849 --> 00:25:11.289
eventually getting involved but the rise of right

00:25:11.289 --> 00:25:14.250
wing populism fascism with a lot of these groups

00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:17.210
these people don't go away they just. turn into

00:25:17.210 --> 00:25:20.049
anti -communists after the war and continue on

00:25:20.049 --> 00:25:22.049
with life and I think it's important to make

00:25:22.049 --> 00:25:24.130
a note of this when we're talking about what's

00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:27.250
going to happen because these people still exist

00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:30.170
during and after the war and I think they play

00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:32.750
an important factor in what happens. The corporations?

00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:35.440
Not just the corporations. There's such a large

00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:39.119
amount of people in the U .S. who at least side

00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.039
with non -intervention because they don't think

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.619
the Germans are being as bad as it turns out

00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:46.299
they are. Right. Yes. Yeah. And just staying

00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:48.859
out of it. But back to the war front now. So

00:25:48.859 --> 00:25:51.539
starting in 1941, the Soviet Union bore the brunt

00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:53.700
of the Nazi war machine and played perhaps the

00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:56.140
most important role in the Allies defeat Hitler.

00:25:56.259 --> 00:25:59.019
By one calculation for every single American

00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:01.740
soldier killed fighting in Germany, 80 Soviet

00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.809
soldiers died doing the same. Hold on, American

00:26:04.809 --> 00:26:07.710
soldiers in Germany? Yes, against Germany. Am

00:26:07.710 --> 00:26:09.809
I about to sound really dumb here? I thought

00:26:09.809 --> 00:26:12.529
that, hold on, I thought America was in the war

00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:15.569
with Japan. They were on both fronts. There are

00:26:15.569 --> 00:26:18.589
two distinct portions of World War II. There's

00:26:18.589 --> 00:26:21.789
the European theater and then the Pacific theater,

00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:24.849
which comes after Europe. And the Americans were

00:26:24.849 --> 00:26:27.490
in the European theater? They were in both and

00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:29.569
that's, you would know this because they entered

00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:33.359
Europe on D -Day. Okay. I do know that. Why did

00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.460
I think they weren't there? I'm not a history

00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:38.519
buff. Yeah. Just to get this important part in

00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:42.500
here. Germany enters Russia and they get fairly

00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:45.220
far into Russia and then they get stalled at

00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:48.440
what is the town known as Leningrad, which eventually

00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:50.460
becomes Stalingrad. I can't remember what it's

00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:52.640
known as today. I think it's St. Petersburg,

00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:54.440
but I can't remember off the top of my head.

00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.660
Yeah, that just came up, actually. But they were

00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:02.470
able to hold the Nazis at Leningrad. from 1941

00:27:02.470 --> 00:27:06.190
until 1944 and then finally they were able to

00:27:06.190 --> 00:27:08.910
push back against the Nazis and start winning

00:27:08.910 --> 00:27:11.579
land from them. Of course, the start of the war

00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:13.920
had been shaped by Nazi -Soviet Pact. To carve

00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.640
up the lands in between their borders, Hitler

00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.180
turned against the USSR. The Red Army was the

00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:20.440
main engine of the Nazism's destruction, writes

00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.119
British historian and journalist Mark Haste.

00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:24.720
The Soviet Union paid the harshest price, however.

00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.319
Though the numbers are not exact, an estimated

00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.759
26 million Soviet citizens died during World

00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.619
War II, including as many as 11 million soldiers.

00:27:34.009 --> 00:27:37.170
At the same time, the Germans suffered three

00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:39.269
-quarters of their wartime losses fighting the

00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:42.069
Red Army. It was the Western Allies' extreme

00:27:42.069 --> 00:27:44.390
good fortune that the Russians and not themselves

00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.369
paid almost the entire butcher's bill for defeating

00:27:47.369 --> 00:27:51.849
the Nazis, excepting 95 % of the military casualties

00:27:51.849 --> 00:27:55.109
of the three major powers of the Allies. The

00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:57.289
epic battles that eventually rolled back the

00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:59.789
Nazi advance, brutal winter siege of Stalingrad,

00:28:00.150 --> 00:28:01.789
clash of thousands of armored vehicles at Kursk,

00:28:01.849 --> 00:28:04.299
that had no parallel on the Western front. where

00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:07.140
the Nazis committed fewer military assets. The

00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:10.220
savagery on display was also of a different degree

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:13.319
than what was experienced farther west. And Eisenhower,

00:28:13.339 --> 00:28:15.980
who went on to become president in the 1950s,

00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:26.259
this is from his direct diary. Through this overrun

00:28:26.259 --> 00:28:29.339
region, Marshal Zhukov told me so many numbers

00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:31.759
of women, children and old men had been killed.

00:28:32.009 --> 00:28:34.150
that the Russian government would never be able

00:28:34.150 --> 00:28:37.650
to estimate the total. With that, Leningrad was

00:28:37.650 --> 00:28:41.470
a major defeat for the Nazis, so much so that

00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:43.660
it actually changed up their tactics. Germany

00:28:43.660 --> 00:28:46.339
had been developing rockets. There was the V1

00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:49.539
and the V2. They have German names, but in English

00:28:49.539 --> 00:28:51.960
it translates to vengeance. Their names are literally

00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.980
Vengeance 1 and Vengeance 2. By late 1941, while

00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:57.660
the war is going good on the Eastern Front, Hitler

00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.400
thought the V2 rocket, which is a rocket -propelled

00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.720
missile which could go about 320 kilometers,

00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:05.619
was not particularly impressive and he opined

00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:08.160
that it was merely an artillery shell with a

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.339
longer range and a much higher cost. But early

00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:14.630
September of 1940, Hitler was sufficiently impressed

00:29:14.630 --> 00:29:17.529
by the enthusiasm of his developer and needed

00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:20.730
a quote -unquote wonder weapon to maintain German

00:29:20.730 --> 00:29:23.069
morale, so he authorized the deployment of it

00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:26.930
in large numbers. At the beginning of the Russian

00:29:26.930 --> 00:29:29.450
front, it was thought of as a side project that

00:29:29.450 --> 00:29:31.930
would just be merely for fun, and by the end

00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:34.529
of it, it became kind of the go -to military

00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:37.369
plan because they needed something because they

00:29:37.369 --> 00:29:39.990
were losing the manpower fight, mostly due to

00:29:39.990 --> 00:29:42.099
what was happening on the Russian front. as we

00:29:42.099 --> 00:29:44.619
just talked about. What is the V2 rocket? The

00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:48.180
German V weapons, V1 and V2, cost the equivalent

00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:52.960
in development around US $40 billion in 2015

00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:56.119
dollars, which was 50 % more than the Manhattan

00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.099
Project that produced the atomic bomb. V2s were

00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:02.160
built at a cost of approximately 100 ,000 Reichsmarks

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:06.799
or 2 .37 billion pounds in 2011 dollars, so about

00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:12.759
$5 billion US each. 3 ,225 were launched. What?

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.839
Yep. Wow. General Hans Kammler, who was an engineer,

00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:18.859
had constructed several concentration camps,

00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:20.940
including Auschwitz, and had a reputation for

00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:23.519
brutality, and had originated the idea of using

00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:25.839
concentration camp prisoners as slave laborers

00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:28.660
in the rocket program. And more people died manufacturing

00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.440
the V2 than were killed by its deployment. A

00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:35.059
quote. From Freeman Dyson, those of us who were

00:30:35.059 --> 00:30:36.980
seriously engaged in the war were very grateful

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:40.400
to Wernher von Braun. We knew that each V2 cost

00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.140
as much to produce as a high -performance fighter

00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:45.619
airplane. We knew that the German forces on the

00:30:45.619 --> 00:30:47.619
fighting fronts were in desperate need of airplanes,

00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:51.000
and that the V2 rockets were doing us no military

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.799
damage. From our point of view, the V2 program

00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.359
was almost as good as if Hitler had adopted a

00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.019
policy of unilateral disarmament. The V2 consumed

00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:02.920
a third of Germany's fuel alcohol production

00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:05.900
and major portions of other critical technologies.

00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.559
To distill the fuel alcohol for one V2 launcher

00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.180
required 30 tons of potatoes at a time when food

00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:15.059
was becoming scarce. Due to a lack of explosives,

00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.680
some warheads were simply filled with concrete,

00:31:18.019 --> 00:31:20.319
using kinetic energy alone for destruction and

00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:22.380
sometimes the warheads contained photographic

00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:24.900
propaganda of German citizens who had died in

00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:28.099
Allied bombings. and they spent so much money

00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:30.440
on it just to fill it with concrete. Yeah, it

00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:32.599
was at this point they were desperate to actually

00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:35.559
do something and this is what they had. The psychological

00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.400
effect of the V2 was considerable as the V2 traveling

00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.339
faster than the speed of sound gave no warning

00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:43.880
before impact. There was no effective defense

00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:46.839
and no risk of pilot and crew casualties. An

00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:48.900
example of the oppression it made is in the reaction

00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:51.279
of American pilot and future nuclear strategist

00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:53.640
and congressional aide William Liscum Ford who

00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.970
in 1944 while returning from a nighttime mission

00:31:56.970 --> 00:31:59.630
over Holland saw a V2 in flight on its way to

00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:02.789
strike London. It resembled a meteor streaming

00:32:02.789 --> 00:32:05.269
red sparks and whizzing past us as though the

00:32:05.269 --> 00:32:07.450
aircraft were motionless. I became convinced

00:32:07.450 --> 00:32:09.670
that it was only a matter of time until rockets

00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:11.990
would expose the United States to direct trans

00:32:11.990 --> 00:32:14.930
-oceanic attack. With the war all but lost regardless

00:32:14.930 --> 00:32:17.029
of the factory output of conventional weapons,

00:32:17.450 --> 00:32:19.730
the Nazis resorted to V -weapons as a tenuous

00:32:19.730 --> 00:32:22.390
last hope to influence the war militarily. As

00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:24.250
an extension of their desire to punish their

00:32:24.250 --> 00:32:26.289
foes, and most importantly to give hope to their

00:32:26.289 --> 00:32:28.589
supporters with their miracle weapons, the V

00:32:28.589 --> 00:32:30.650
-2 had no effect on the outcome of the war, but

00:32:30.650 --> 00:32:32.809
it led to the intercontinental ballistic missiles

00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:35.029
of the Cold War, which in turn were used for

00:32:35.029 --> 00:32:38.150
space exploration. The offensive began on September

00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:42.170
7th, 1944, when two were launched at Paris. Both

00:32:42.170 --> 00:32:44.529
crashed soon after launch. On 8th of September,

00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:46.769
a single rocket was launched at Paris, which

00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:50.390
caused modest damage near Porte d 'Italia. Two

00:32:50.390 --> 00:32:53.509
more launches by the 485th followed, including

00:32:53.509 --> 00:32:56.430
one from the Hague against London on the same

00:32:56.430 --> 00:32:59.430
day at 6 .43pm. The British government initially

00:32:59.430 --> 00:33:01.369
attempted to conceal the cause of the explosions

00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:04.619
by blaming them on defective gas mains. and the

00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.319
public therefore began referring to V2s as flying

00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:09.920
gas pipes. The Germans themselves finally announced

00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.839
the V2 on November 8, 1944, and only then on

00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.700
November 10, 1944, did Winston Churchill inform

00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:18.440
Parliament and the world that England had been

00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:21.200
under a rocket attack for the last few weeks.

00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:25.130
And over the following months, From basically

00:33:25.130 --> 00:33:29.490
October to the end of the war, 3 ,172 V2 rockets

00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:33.390
were fired at the following targets. 1 ,664 were

00:33:33.390 --> 00:33:36.309
fired at Belgium, 1 ,610 of which were fired

00:33:36.309 --> 00:33:39.509
at Antwerp, 1 ,402 were fired at the United Kingdom,

00:33:39.829 --> 00:33:44.930
1 ,358 of which were fired at London, 43 at Norwick.

00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:48.569
France had 76 fired at it, 25 of which were fired

00:33:48.569 --> 00:33:52.799
at Lille. and Paris had 22. 19 were fired at

00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.559
the Netherlands and 11 ended up being fired at

00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.559
Germany itself. This is coming to the end of

00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:02.759
my part. This is really important. The turn to

00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:05.740
manufacturing the V2s led to the factories being

00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:08.119
developed and built in an area known as middle

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.519
work, which is now just outside of modern day

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.739
Nordhausen, which is squarely in what would become

00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:16.480
East Germany after World War II. The Soviets

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.960
gained possession of the V2 factories after the

00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.679
war and reestablished the V2 production and moved

00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.579
it to the Soviet Union upon the completion of

00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:27.559
the war and the split of East and West Germany.

00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:32.860
With that, I think I have set up. What you are

00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:35.039
now about to talk to fairly nicely? I think it

00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:37.519
does too. Any questions about any of that, Chelsea?

00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:41.539
I don't think so. I'm like not a war buff, so

00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:44.519
a lot of this is like I get the general idea

00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.039
of what happens. We fully just learned about

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.559
the V2 and its significance at the end of World

00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.219
War II. Yeah. During this research. I had no

00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:55.880
idea that these rockets were fire. There's definitely

00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.519
a lot that I've just learned brand new some of

00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:00.500
it I can't say that I might not have learned

00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:04.039
before and I just Forgot about it, but and just

00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.480
add one more thing the Nazis were also the first

00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:09.820
spacefaring group as they launch one of the V2

00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:12.559
rockets straight up and it breached the atmosphere.

00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:15.179
It wasn't manned though, right? It was not manned

00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:17.360
at all. It was the first man -made object that

00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:19.800
was propelled. I did not know that either. Yeah,

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.260
I did learn a lot there. Some of the things when

00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:24.960
it comes to just logistics just are a little

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.360
bit over my head though. Anyhow, I'm going to,

00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:30.539
this was a really good setup for me and I'm going

00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:34.480
to start with Operation Overcast. This one's

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.130
a progression. I just want to start out by saying

00:35:38.130 --> 00:35:40.809
Taylor didn't really get to the many many long

00:35:40.809 --> 00:35:44.110
boring names. I have a lot of them in my part.

00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:47.510
It was really unavoidable. I don't have all of

00:35:47.510 --> 00:35:49.869
the long boring names. We could do an episode

00:35:49.869 --> 00:35:52.610
just on long boring names. With that, here we

00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:56.110
go. To set the scene on Operation Overcast, though

00:35:56.110 --> 00:35:58.590
it has probably been in the works for the whole

00:35:58.590 --> 00:36:01.230
time Taylor's been talking, kind of. In the later

00:36:01.230 --> 00:36:03.849
part of World War II, Germany started shitting

00:36:03.849 --> 00:36:06.530
the bed and was at a logistical disadvantage

00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:10.230
after failing Operation Barbarossa. And this

00:36:10.230 --> 00:36:13.269
failure depleted German resources and left the

00:36:13.269 --> 00:36:15.590
Germans unprepared to defend against the Red

00:36:15.590 --> 00:36:20.030
Army. So what Germany does in early 1943 is recall

00:36:20.030 --> 00:36:23.650
scientists, engineers, rocketeers, and technicians

00:36:23.650 --> 00:36:27.909
from combat. And once the Germans located these

00:36:27.909 --> 00:36:30.110
intellectuals, they were then vetted for their

00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:33.449
political and ideological reliability. And they

00:36:33.449 --> 00:36:36.030
returned to work in research and development

00:36:36.030 --> 00:36:38.949
in an attempt to strengthen German defense. This

00:36:38.949 --> 00:36:42.269
is done mostly in Heenemünde, probably totally

00:36:42.269 --> 00:36:45.250
wrong, which is in northeast coastal Germany.

00:36:45.630 --> 00:36:49.000
That's where Werner Ausenberg comes in which

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.420
is the engineer scientist heading the wherefore

00:36:52.420 --> 00:36:57.280
shung sky mine shaft which also goes by defense

00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.860
research association and werner records the names

00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:03.260
of the politically cleared intellectuals which

00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:05.880
become the osin burner list reinstating these

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.880
men to scientific work so i'm gonna cut it there

00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.460
just on the update of where we're at with germany

00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:14.519
and meanwhile slash slightly into the future

00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.929
but trust me this is all gonna tie together and

00:37:17.929 --> 00:37:21.949
be related. February 1945, as the war is winding

00:37:21.949 --> 00:37:24.849
down, Germany looks like they're gonna lose,

00:37:25.369 --> 00:37:29.409
and the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary

00:37:29.409 --> 00:37:32.909
Force, aka Shafes, which was the headquarters

00:37:32.909 --> 00:37:35.969
of the commander of Allied forces in northwest

00:37:35.969 --> 00:37:39.230
Europe, which was, by the way, headed by Dwight

00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:43.289
D. Eisenhower. They set up T -Force, which amazing

00:37:43.289 --> 00:37:46.869
name. by the way, T -Force. It is a joint U .S.

00:37:46.889 --> 00:37:49.510
British Army mission. I know this is a lot to

00:37:49.510 --> 00:37:51.289
wrap your head around, especially with names

00:37:51.289 --> 00:37:54.530
like Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary

00:37:54.530 --> 00:37:57.210
Force. There's a lot of those. I told you long

00:37:57.210 --> 00:37:59.510
boring names. I do like that it was a Supreme

00:37:59.510 --> 00:38:02.929
Headquarters at least. Yeah, it seems to me like

00:38:02.929 --> 00:38:05.150
the Venture Bros and there's all these like random

00:38:05.150 --> 00:38:07.730
bad guys. That's just what it reminds me of with

00:38:07.730 --> 00:38:11.010
these like long names. T -Force's mission was

00:38:11.010 --> 00:38:24.289
to find and take German scientists I saw that

00:38:24.289 --> 00:38:26.090
on Wikipedia also and a lot of people talking

00:38:26.090 --> 00:38:29.210
about it. I think it downplays the fact that

00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:31.489
what they were really concerned about, everybody

00:38:31.489 --> 00:38:33.349
knew at this point that there was going to be

00:38:33.349 --> 00:38:36.130
some sort of conflict between the East being

00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:39.409
the Soviet Union. Yes. and the West being the

00:38:39.409 --> 00:38:42.250
US and the Allies over there. Yeah, it's pretty

00:38:42.250 --> 00:38:45.630
loaded. And all of the facilities and by extension,

00:38:46.190 --> 00:38:48.929
the scientists helping the development in these

00:38:48.929 --> 00:38:51.849
facilities was on the eastern side of Germany

00:38:51.849 --> 00:38:56.110
and Russia was coming in from the east. Nobody

00:38:56.110 --> 00:38:58.230
knew where they were going to stop or what they

00:38:58.230 --> 00:39:00.409
were going to claim. It wasn't just vandals they

00:39:00.409 --> 00:39:01.750
were worried about. It was the fact that they

00:39:01.750 --> 00:39:04.050
were worried about it falling into Russian hands.

00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:07.900
It's loaded. There's a lot of things that they're

00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:10.480
trying to get at with this. They're trying to

00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.300
get these targets for various reasons, like Taylor

00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:16.739
just mentioned as well, so that it's not lost

00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:21.289
forever, etc, etc. They... being the T -Force.

00:39:21.530 --> 00:39:24.730
Also wanted to impede Germany's ability complete

00:39:24.730 --> 00:39:27.630
the post -war political and economic spheres

00:39:27.630 --> 00:39:30.809
and give a boost to the nations involved. This

00:39:30.809 --> 00:39:34.110
also meant preventing Nazi technology from getting

00:39:34.110 --> 00:39:36.909
into the hands of the Soviet Union or destroying

00:39:36.909 --> 00:39:39.949
what could not be seized and T -Force's activities

00:39:39.949 --> 00:39:43.820
can be seen as the start of the Cold War. Although

00:39:43.820 --> 00:39:46.260
Taylor mentioned the start of the Cold War going

00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.699
back even further than that. So there's just

00:39:48.699 --> 00:39:51.199
a lot of things building up to the Cold War at

00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:54.900
this point. Basically when the Soviet Union went

00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:58.079
communist is when some people say the Cold War

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.699
truly started. It really depends on when you

00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:02.980
want to say it started. You can make a case for

00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:04.659
it all the way up to the end of World War II.

00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:06.639
Yeah and at what point you read on the Wikipedia

00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.750
page. Yes. And which we could beat in the face.

00:40:10.010 --> 00:40:14.110
T -Force grows quickly and examine 5 ,000 German

00:40:14.110 --> 00:40:18.590
targets with a high priority on synthetic rubber

00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:22.110
and oil catalysts, new designs and armored equipment,

00:40:22.849 --> 00:40:27.960
B2 rocket weapons. jet and rocket propelled aircraft,

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.480
naval equipment, field radios, secret writing

00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:36.000
chemicals, aeromedicine research, gliders, and

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.920
scientific and industrial personalities, which

00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:42.619
just nicely means people, I guess. Let's not

00:40:42.619 --> 00:40:46.360
forget or also learn, as I did, maybe it'll just

00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:49.300
be me learning, that the Nazis were in a race

00:40:49.300 --> 00:40:52.460
with the Americans to develop the nuclear bomb.

00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.260
I didn't know that. So this is just to name a

00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:58.360
lot of things that T -Force had its eye on. They

00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:02.199
set up, being T -Force again, an enemy personnel

00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:06.380
exploitation section, peace, epis, to manage

00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:09.440
and interrogate these human targets and set up

00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.260
a detention center in Paris. And then it's later

00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:15.219
moved to Kranzberg Castle located outside of

00:41:15.219 --> 00:41:17.960
Frankfurt. And this interrogation center was

00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:21.460
nicknamed Dusbin, which is a very creative name,

00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:23.239
just like all the other names we've come across

00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:28.019
so far. So then, only slightly related, not entirely

00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:32.619
related. March 1945, a Polish laboratory technician

00:41:32.619 --> 00:41:35.559
finds pieces of the Osenberg list, see I told

00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:37.480
you it would connect, the whole thing connects,

00:41:37.699 --> 00:41:41.059
in a toilet at Bonn University. If you'll remember

00:41:41.059 --> 00:41:45.000
that is a list of all the German scientists that

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.599
were pulled off the front lines to go develop

00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.329
scientific things. To go science. Yeah, to go

00:41:51.329 --> 00:41:53.670
science. They needed to go science instead of

00:41:53.670 --> 00:41:56.130
fight. This list finds its way to the Secret

00:41:56.130 --> 00:41:59.250
Intelligence Service of the United Kingdom, and

00:41:59.250 --> 00:42:01.730
then they send it to the U .S. intelligence.

00:42:02.130 --> 00:42:04.750
So way to go, Werner. I guess you just shouldn't

00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:07.110
make a list like that. So not the only Werner

00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:10.070
that comes up. Yeah, it's not. It was a very

00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:12.789
popular name, and I'm not sure why Werner would

00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:14.909
go throw this list down the toilet. It might

00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:16.969
not have even been him. awesome to be learned

00:42:16.969 --> 00:42:19.809
don't make a list like that they found out anyway

00:42:19.809 --> 00:42:24.650
anyhow obviously us army major robert staver

00:42:24.650 --> 00:42:27.489
chief of jet propulsion section of the research

00:42:27.489 --> 00:42:30.469
and intelligent branch of the u .s army ordinance

00:42:30.469 --> 00:42:33.639
corps who's involved in the project uses this

00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.659
list to compile another list of probably the

00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:39.119
same names of German scientists to be captured

00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.639
and interrogated. The other list was in the toilet

00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.780
so he had to make this new one and at the top

00:42:44.780 --> 00:42:48.719
of his list was Werner von Braun and he's come

00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.780
up I think already. It was a note thanking Werner

00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:54.019
von Braun for pushing the V2 rockets because

00:42:54.019 --> 00:42:56.780
it took money away from other military technologies.

00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.219
Yes, so he was mentioned briefly and briefly

00:43:00.219 --> 00:43:01.920
there again because I'm on to something else.

00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:04.719
And if you'll remember from just a moment ago,

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.260
Major Staver, his original intent with Operation

00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:11.199
Overcast was only to interview the scientists

00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.150
on the list. That was it, apparently. And upon

00:43:14.150 --> 00:43:16.010
interviewing the scientists, what he learned

00:43:16.010 --> 00:43:18.530
from them changed the operation's purpose. And

00:43:18.530 --> 00:43:23.090
on May 22nd, 1945, Major Staver transmits to

00:43:23.090 --> 00:43:26.349
the Pentagon headquarters Colonel Joel Holmes'

00:43:26.730 --> 00:43:29.989
telegram urging the evacuation of German scientists

00:43:29.989 --> 00:43:32.769
and their families as most important for the

00:43:32.769 --> 00:43:36.130
Pacific war effort. This meant know -how on advanced

00:43:36.130 --> 00:43:38.929
technology like infrared that could be used in

00:43:38.929 --> 00:43:42.030
the war against Japan, what technology had been

00:43:42.030 --> 00:43:44.849
passed to Japan. hand and halting their research.

00:43:45.309 --> 00:43:47.769
Obviously with all these acronyms and nicknames

00:43:47.769 --> 00:43:50.710
being thrown around there needed to be just one

00:43:50.710 --> 00:43:54.269
more and their tongue twisters. This leads to

00:43:54.269 --> 00:43:57.570
the U .S. Joint Chiefs of Staff establishing

00:43:57.570 --> 00:44:00.650
the first secret recruitment program Operation

00:44:00.650 --> 00:44:05.769
Overcast. is official established July 20th 1945.

00:44:06.170 --> 00:44:08.670
The reason this was created was not just for

00:44:08.670 --> 00:44:12.510
another fancy name no no it was to assist in

00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:15.530
shortening the Japanese war and to aid there

00:44:15.530 --> 00:44:19.750
the U .S. post -war military research. Overcast

00:44:19.750 --> 00:44:23.230
was the name given by the German scientists family

00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:25.369
members for the housing camp where they were

00:44:25.369 --> 00:44:28.829
held in Bavaria. In late summer in 1945 the Joint

00:44:28.829 --> 00:44:40.610
Chiefs of Staff also established Yeah, the US

00:44:40.610 --> 00:44:44.260
doesn't get good at acronyms for at least. Probably

00:44:44.260 --> 00:44:46.519
20 years when NASA came back. Yeah and it really

00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.659
like to me this just makes it all the more confusing

00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:52.300
because like what is going on and I had to read

00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:54.380
this quite a bit to wrap my head even a little

00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:58.380
bit around it. So the Joint Intelligence Objectives

00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:02.539
Agency is a subcommittee of the Joint Intelligent

00:45:02.539 --> 00:45:06.880
Community which is directly responsible for Operation

00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.480
Overcast and later Operation Paperclip. Spoiler

00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:14.349
alert. I didn't see that coming did you? So the

00:45:14.349 --> 00:45:18.070
GOF representatives included the Army's Director

00:45:18.070 --> 00:45:21.150
of Intelligence, the Chief of Naval Intelligence,

00:45:21.269 --> 00:45:24.489
the Assistant Chief of Air Staff 2, which is

00:45:24.489 --> 00:45:26.889
Air Force Intelligence, and a representative

00:45:26.889 --> 00:45:30.030
from the State Department. The goal of this agency

00:45:30.030 --> 00:45:33.050
was to harness German intellectual resources

00:45:33.050 --> 00:45:35.929
to help develop America's arsenal of rockets

00:45:35.929 --> 00:45:38.550
and other biological and chemical weapons, and

00:45:38.550 --> 00:45:41.050
of course, keep it away from the Russians. Must

00:45:41.050 --> 00:45:43.019
at all cost, keep it away from the... Russians.

00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:46.099
They also wanted to stop other countries where

00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:49.280
these scientists could logically immigrate to

00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.599
from gaining this knowledge, which were Nazi

00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.360
sympathizing countries where they already had

00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.639
escape plans in place, being Spain, Argentina,

00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:02.500
and Egypt to name the ones they were most worried

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:05.559
about. Although President Harry Truman forbade

00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:08.539
the agency from recruiting any Nazi members or

00:46:08.539 --> 00:46:11.179
active Nazi supporters, I'm sure we all know

00:46:11.179 --> 00:46:13.480
where this is going. Many of the recruits if

00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:17.139
not all of them were obviously Nazis. Intelligence

00:46:17.139 --> 00:46:20.159
was crucial to the country's post -war efforts,

00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:23.599
so the agency whitewashed and eliminated incriminating

00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:26.760
evidence of war crimes from the scientists' records.

00:46:26.900 --> 00:46:29.739
Plus all the intellectuals were pulled off of

00:46:29.739 --> 00:46:31.719
the front lines, right? So they were totally

00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:34.960
harmless and had nothing to do with being actual

00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.900
Nazis. They did nothing wrong. Some of the duties

00:46:38.900 --> 00:46:41.699
of this agency that I was just talking about

00:46:41.699 --> 00:46:45.070
the Geowa? We can remember what that acronym

00:46:45.070 --> 00:46:47.610
stands for because I can't. The duties include

00:46:47.610 --> 00:46:50.909
administrating the Operation Paperclip Policies

00:46:50.909 --> 00:46:55.329
slash Operation Overcast, compiling dossiers,

00:46:55.469 --> 00:46:58.389
more than 1 ,500 about Nazi and foreign scientists,

00:46:58.610 --> 00:47:01.590
engineers and technicians, and being the liaison

00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:04.809
to British intelligence officers executing similar

00:47:04.809 --> 00:47:08.389
scientific intelligence projects. In a secret

00:47:08.389 --> 00:47:12.429
directive circulated September 3rd, 1946, President

00:47:12.429 --> 00:47:15.610
Truman officially approves Operation Paperclip

00:47:15.610 --> 00:47:18.969
and expands it to include 1 ,000 German scientists

00:47:18.969 --> 00:47:22.389
under temporary limited military custody, as

00:47:22.389 --> 00:47:25.610
this was for the greater good. As we heard, I

00:47:25.610 --> 00:47:28.130
think a lot in this episode, I think even with

00:47:28.130 --> 00:47:32.909
our opening. In November 1945, Operation Overcast

00:47:32.909 --> 00:47:36.550
was renamed Operation Paperclip by Ordnance Corps

00:47:36.550 --> 00:47:39.309
officers who would attach a paperclip to the

00:47:39.309 --> 00:47:42.250
folders of those rocket experts whom they wished

00:47:42.250 --> 00:47:45.570
to employ in America. It was also renamed because

00:47:45.570 --> 00:47:48.869
Camp Overcast, the name of the scientist's headquarters

00:47:48.869 --> 00:47:52.449
as we discussed like a couple minutes ago, became

00:47:52.449 --> 00:47:55.150
known locally and needed to be changed. So we

00:47:55.150 --> 00:47:58.070
move on to, but not really, Operation Paperclip.

00:47:58.090 --> 00:48:00.500
It's just official at this time. I know Taylor

00:48:00.500 --> 00:48:03.139
already said what Operation Paperclip is. I don't

00:48:03.139 --> 00:48:05.800
know why I'm talking about it now because maybe

00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.179
it's because it's newly formed now. So what we

00:48:08.179 --> 00:48:11.840
know Operation Paperclip as today is really everything

00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:13.980
I've been talking about under different names.

00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:16.539
But that just brings us to the official happenings.

00:48:16.900 --> 00:48:19.500
It's an intelligence program of the United States

00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:22.500
where more than 1600 German scientists, engineers

00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:24.880
and technicians along with their families were

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:27.599
taken from Nazi Germany to the United States

00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:31.340
of America. for government employment after the

00:48:31.340 --> 00:48:34.039
end of World War II. That being said, the Office

00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:37.260
of Special Investigations estimated around 10

00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:40.440
,000 Nazi war criminals entered the US from Eastern

00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.340
Europe after World War II. The whole thing takes

00:48:43.340 --> 00:48:49.000
place between 1945 and 1959 but most Nazi collaborators

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.920
entered the U .S. through the Displaced Persons

00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.239
Acts and the Refugee Relief Act of 1953. Supporters

00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.440
of the act showed only a slight awareness that

00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:03.219
Nazi war criminals would enter the U .S. through

00:49:03.219 --> 00:49:05.900
them and most of the concern was disallowing

00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:08.440
known communists from entering. This shift in

00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:10.780
focus was likely due to the pressure of the Cold

00:49:10.780 --> 00:49:13.400
War in the years after World War II when the

00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:16.639
US focused on countering Soviet communism more

00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:20.119
than the Nazis, obviously, this time. Yeah, and

00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.940
I think that really looking at that history I

00:49:22.940 --> 00:49:25.340
set up shows why they were very happy to move

00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:29.679
on to communism bad. Let's stop worrying about

00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:34.099
the Nazis. It all makes sense. It's still concerning.

00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:37.739
Yes. By now with all of this set up it's obviously

00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:40.079
easy to look the other way about war crimes when

00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.579
you have the cold war and the space race happening

00:49:42.579 --> 00:49:46.480
which was the primary purpose of Operation Paperclip

00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:49.869
kind of. I feel like it had a million different

00:49:49.869 --> 00:49:53.750
purposes. I do like that they say that they're

00:49:53.750 --> 00:49:56.429
only bringing them in to help these war efforts,

00:49:56.429 --> 00:49:58.769
but a lot of them just end up staying forever

00:49:58.769 --> 00:50:00.929
and retiring. Well, and I always find it so weird

00:50:00.929 --> 00:50:02.610
when somebody says we're doing it for the greater

00:50:02.610 --> 00:50:04.969
good. It can't even just be for good because

00:50:04.969 --> 00:50:07.710
the things they're doing are so ethically heinous.

00:50:07.750 --> 00:50:10.269
Yeah. That they can't even just say good. They

00:50:10.269 --> 00:50:13.090
say, no, no, this good is so good. It's it's

00:50:13.090 --> 00:50:15.769
greater good. So we can like we can't even consider

00:50:15.769 --> 00:50:19.280
an alternate. so good. We could not even entertain

00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.820
the option of saying no. It wasn't even in the

00:50:21.820 --> 00:50:25.139
vocabulary at that time. The focus then kind

00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:28.019
of gets on to getting better, faster, and more

00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:30.679
precise aircraft, which was essential for future

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:34.380
wars. But also, just to add to things, a short

00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:37.199
12 years after World War II, the first satellite

00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.159
was launched by Russia. And many of the German

00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.219
scientists had made leaps forward in rocket technology,

00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:45.579
which this ended up being the biggest reaper

00:50:45.579 --> 00:50:48.880
of fruit. or goods or something, or Operation

00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:51.719
Paperclip, which was the space program. The knowledge

00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:53.940
these scientists brought with them was quickly

00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:56.900
incorporated into American designs, and many

00:50:56.900 --> 00:50:59.860
of these scientists gained prominent positions.

00:51:00.139 --> 00:51:02.639
Just an aside here, I thought this the whole

00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.119
time I was doing my research. Like, why were

00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.860
German scientists so good? Like, why did they

00:51:09.860 --> 00:51:12.619
just make this go leaps and bounds in a short

00:51:12.619 --> 00:51:15.719
amount of time where, like, nobody else America

00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:18.739
could. Germany was a hotbed for science for a

00:51:18.739 --> 00:51:21.639
long time leading into World War II. Oh yeah

00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:25.179
and especially it was set to become the world

00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:27.539
superpower without the wars getting involved.

00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:29.760
They would have been... Wow I didn't know that.

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.619
Yeah it was just up until the start of the 1900s.

00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:36.320
Germany was not a country. Germany was an amalgamation.

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.260
Well it was a bunch of feudal empires. Prussia

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:41.400
being the biggest of them, which has only been

00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:44.539
brought together in the early 1900s under Otto

00:51:44.539 --> 00:51:48.480
von Bismarck. What is the other guy's name? Anyways,

00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:53.679
Otto von Bismarck. Yes, that's catchy. But yeah,

00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:56.139
I'm glad you could answer that because Kaiser

00:51:56.139 --> 00:51:59.559
Wilhelm, who was the ruler of the newly joined

00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.380
German country. Italy also has a very similar

00:52:02.380 --> 00:52:06.440
history in that it is unique. in that fascism

00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:08.420
took over in Italy and Germany the way it did

00:52:08.420 --> 00:52:11.840
because these are two countries because they

00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:14.539
became a nation so late in the game they really

00:52:14.539 --> 00:52:17.599
missed out on empire building and the colonies.

00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:20.599
So really one of the definitions I've heard that

00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:24.820
I quite like for fascism is bringing colonialism

00:52:24.820 --> 00:52:27.119
home. I don't know if that quite makes sense

00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:29.119
to you but because they missed out on empire

00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:30.880
building they had to look at other ways of doing

00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.710
it so they created underclasses at home. who

00:52:33.710 --> 00:52:37.269
were used to create the necessary levels of power

00:52:37.269 --> 00:52:39.389
above them. Okay, that makes more sense to me

00:52:39.389 --> 00:52:42.170
now. I just needed it explained to me. But yeah,

00:52:42.269 --> 00:52:44.230
I'm glad you could answer my question. Part of

00:52:44.230 --> 00:52:47.010
it too is because there was a hyper -militarization

00:52:47.010 --> 00:52:51.329
of Nazi Germany, there was funding thrown at

00:52:51.329 --> 00:52:53.869
places for war efforts. Obviously. One of those

00:52:53.869 --> 00:52:56.769
war efforts was creating war weapons, one of

00:52:56.769 --> 00:53:00.269
which was the V2. Which had like... Billions

00:53:00.269 --> 00:53:02.809
of dollars like lots of billions of dollars thrown

00:53:02.809 --> 00:53:05.860
at it. Oh, yeah But way too much money. That's

00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:08.760
crazy. But OK, that answers that, because this

00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:11.500
whole time I was like, why is everyone all the

00:53:11.500 --> 00:53:14.539
brain power in Germany? Yeah. And so part of

00:53:14.539 --> 00:53:18.860
it's that. And in fact, Germany lost a lot of

00:53:18.860 --> 00:53:22.519
its brain power just prior to the war. I think

00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:24.380
this is a good time to bring it up. Not all German

00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:27.380
scientists who came over around this time were

00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:30.300
Nazis. Two months after Adolf Hitler was appointed

00:53:30.300 --> 00:53:33.340
chancellor, the German government issued the

00:53:36.250 --> 00:53:42.849
The law for the restoration of the professional

00:53:42.849 --> 00:53:45.170
civil service. With some exceptions, none of

00:53:45.170 --> 00:53:48.289
which lasted for long. The April 7, 1933 law

00:53:48.289 --> 00:53:50.349
ordered that those in government positions who

00:53:50.349 --> 00:53:53.670
had at least one Jewish grandparent or were political

00:53:53.670 --> 00:53:56.389
opponents of the Nazi party be immediately dismissed.

00:53:57.090 --> 00:53:59.250
Thousands of these people lost their jobs as

00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:01.449
teachers, judges, police officers, and academics

00:54:01.449 --> 00:54:04.110
at the country's top universities. Many of these

00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:06.989
people fled. If you were communist, you fled

00:54:06.989 --> 00:54:10.849
east. If you were Jewish, you've fled west. Many

00:54:10.849 --> 00:54:13.969
people came over prior to World War II as German

00:54:13.969 --> 00:54:16.369
scientists, but they were not Nazis. They fled

00:54:16.369 --> 00:54:19.670
because of the Nazis. And a 2016 study found

00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:22.820
that 15 % of physicists were dismissed from German

00:54:22.820 --> 00:54:26.579
universities at this time and those 15 % of physicists

00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:30.300
accounted for 64 % of all German physics citations.

00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:33.440
And I think part of really why the US was able

00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:36.840
to get involved in even the nuclear research

00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.079
that they were was due to these physicists that

00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:42.059
were dismissed like Oppenheimer and Einstein

00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:45.230
who came over at this time. Yes. Okay. I'm glad

00:54:45.230 --> 00:54:47.750
you put a name to that. But that's my little

00:54:47.750 --> 00:54:49.989
bit to add there. You can continue with what

00:54:49.989 --> 00:54:52.650
you do. Okay. I mean, that's that's all I really

00:54:52.650 --> 00:54:54.989
have to say about Operation Paperclip. I don't

00:54:54.989 --> 00:54:57.940
know if you have anything else to add. even though

00:54:57.940 --> 00:55:01.480
you just did not really I I think it is point

00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:04.559
to be I think you're going to get into that not

00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.059
all these people are coming over with clean hands

00:55:07.059 --> 00:55:11.820
as the governments imply yeah um so I do have

00:55:11.820 --> 00:55:15.880
a few brief mentions of people who are coming

00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:19.420
over here there are like I said there were a

00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:22.260
lot of people that came over I just picked out

00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:25.320
a few that maybe you've heard of maybe you haven't

00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:28.190
I just want to touch on a few and let you know

00:55:28.190 --> 00:55:31.250
of the goings -ons. First I have George Ricky.

00:55:31.530 --> 00:55:33.610
I'm sure that's not how you say it, but makes

00:55:33.610 --> 00:55:35.710
sense to me. He worked as an engineer at one

00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:39.050
of Nazi Germany's largest factories and was responsible

00:55:39.050 --> 00:55:41.949
for several of the country's most powerful bombs.

00:55:42.210 --> 00:55:44.869
After being brought to the US under Operation

00:55:44.869 --> 00:55:47.489
Paperclip, he was accused of close ties with

00:55:47.489 --> 00:55:51.010
the SS and the Gestapo, as well as getting workers

00:55:51.010 --> 00:55:54.329
from concentration camps. He was the only recruit

00:55:54.329 --> 00:55:57.349
to be returned to Germany for trial and he was

00:55:57.349 --> 00:55:59.750
acquitted and never returned to the United States.

00:56:00.010 --> 00:56:02.369
I actually have a little bit to add about Ricky.

00:56:02.530 --> 00:56:05.309
Oh, okay. Werner von Braun, who is the biggest

00:56:05.309 --> 00:56:08.409
name that came over in Operation Paperclip, he

00:56:08.409 --> 00:56:11.710
ends up being the first head of NASA and absolutely

00:56:11.710 --> 00:56:13.690
paramount in them getting to the moon in the

00:56:13.690 --> 00:56:18.210
1960s. He was asked to interview and basically

00:56:18.210 --> 00:56:20.969
take the stand at the Nuremberg trials with regards

00:56:20.969 --> 00:56:23.250
to Ricky because they believe that there was

00:56:23.250 --> 00:56:25.610
information that they didn't have that von Braun

00:56:25.820 --> 00:56:29.119
had, and he just happened to be on vacation when

00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:31.360
inspectors came to talk to him about this. Order

00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:34.280
Von Braun was located to Alabama, and he needed

00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:36.800
basically permission to go on vacations or leave

00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:38.780
at any time. And it just so happened that he

00:56:38.780 --> 00:56:41.539
was on vacation at the time they came to talk

00:56:41.539 --> 00:56:43.960
to him about this. What a weird coincidence.

00:56:44.260 --> 00:56:48.139
That's such a weird coincidence. So next. German

00:56:48.139 --> 00:56:50.880
scientist I have brought over, Walton Schreiber.

00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:53.579
He was one of the later recruits of Operation

00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:57.559
Paperclip, heading to the U .S. in 1951. He got

00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:00.639
the Americans' attention after escaping Russian

00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:04.139
custody. He was one of the Nazis' top medical

00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:07.119
scientists. He worked in medical research for

00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:09.659
the Air Force, but not long after a Holocaust

00:57:09.659 --> 00:57:12.599
survivor accused him of being involved in medical

00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.699
experiments committed at Ravensbrück concentration

00:57:15.699 --> 00:57:19.500
camp. were confirmed earlier he would have been

00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:22.619
tried at Nuremberg instead he chose to go to

00:57:22.619 --> 00:57:25.960
Argentina and nothing really happened to him

00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:28.900
other than going to Argentina. The fan favorite

00:57:28.900 --> 00:57:31.380
Werner von Braun if you've never heard of anyone

00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:34.519
you've probably heard of this guy. He was on

00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.260
the run when he was captured by the Americans

00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:40.760
he also ran large factories in Germany which

00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:43.739
were heavily staffed by slave labor. While not

00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:46.920
directly implicated in war crimes survivors who

00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:49.699
were forced to work for him told of harsh treatments

00:57:49.699 --> 00:57:53.440
experienced and of course I mean it was slave

00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:56.980
laborers being used. I fully believe like I've

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:58.940
done a lot of reading in the last little while

00:57:58.940 --> 00:58:03.139
on Warner Von Braun the full story is not nor

00:58:03.139 --> 00:58:05.400
will it ever public be known of this guy. Oh

00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.739
not at all especially since he comes over to

00:58:07.739 --> 00:58:11.840
the US and he has such a major role in doing

00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.739
so much in rocket technology and space travel

00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:17.860
which is something that really propelled the

00:58:17.860 --> 00:58:20.619
US forward so there's a lot that's never going

00:58:20.619 --> 00:58:23.219
to be known about him I did find that fairly

00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:27.090
whitewashed as a I mean Just, I mean, that's

00:58:27.090 --> 00:58:29.510
anything I could find. He worked on sensitive

00:58:29.510 --> 00:58:32.710
projects, including both the American ballistic

00:58:32.710 --> 00:58:35.829
missile program, all of these names, like they're

00:58:35.829 --> 00:58:38.349
just tongue twisters, I swear. And the rockets

00:58:38.349 --> 00:58:41.250
that launched the first American space satellite,

00:58:41.610 --> 00:58:44.210
Explorer 1. Obviously, I've alluded that von

00:58:44.210 --> 00:58:47.369
Braun was highly sought after, and he was considered

00:58:47.369 --> 00:58:53.210
America's format. Form formal expert on space

00:58:53.210 --> 00:58:56.250
technology and his research group was incorporated

00:58:56.250 --> 00:58:59.469
into NASA He was chief architect at the Saturn

00:58:59.469 --> 00:59:03.250
5 launch Vehicle which enabled human missions

00:59:03.250 --> 00:59:07.190
to the moon and von Braun and D bus D bus he'll

00:59:07.190 --> 00:59:09.230
come up I'm not just saying that never coming

00:59:09.230 --> 00:59:12.070
back to him were involved in the design and launch

00:59:12.070 --> 00:59:14.590
of the Apollo program and eventually Oversaw

00:59:14.590 --> 00:59:17.070
the successful launch that put Neil Armstrong

00:59:17.070 --> 00:59:19.880
and Buzz Aldrin on the moon moon, and I'm just

00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:23.260
going to jump quick to Kurt Deboos, who is closely

00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:27.179
tied with Von Braun. A pioneering rocket engineer,

00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:30.739
Deboos would become first director of NASA's

00:59:30.739 --> 00:59:33.739
Launch Operations Center. Deboos was named by

00:59:33.739 --> 00:59:36.900
Von Braun after seeing the bombs drop in Nagasaki

00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:39.900
and Hiroshima by manned aircraft to organize

00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:43.239
a division on missile firing, and in the early

00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:46.219
1950s they tested the first missiles carrying

00:59:46.219 --> 00:59:49.119
nuclear warheads. It is clear the states needed

00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:52.019
a better and faster way to deliver a deadly weapon,

00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:55.300
and in the early 50s they tested the first missiles

00:59:55.300 --> 00:59:58.920
carrying nuclear warheads, deploying the powerful

00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:02.739
weapons into the Pacific Ocean. So both von Braun

01:00:02.739 --> 01:00:06.420
and de Boos worked for the U .S. until they retired

01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:08.980
and were highly honored by the end of their careers.

01:00:09.340 --> 01:00:12.440
Von Braun was inducted into the National Academy

01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:15.059
of Engineering and received the National Medal

01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:18.510
of Science. De Boos has an award named after

01:00:18.510 --> 01:00:21.590
him at the National Space Club of Florida and

01:00:21.590 --> 01:00:25.250
has a lunar crater named after him. Arthur Rudolph,

01:00:25.429 --> 01:00:29.150
one of Germany's top rocketry engineers and close

01:00:29.150 --> 01:00:32.449
ally of von Braun. Much of his work took place

01:00:32.449 --> 01:00:35.349
at the Middle Work Factory, a site staffed by

01:00:35.349 --> 01:00:38.489
prisoners from the Mittelbau -Dora concentration

01:00:38.489 --> 01:00:41.909
camps. Eventually he defected to the US and British

01:00:41.909 --> 01:00:45.849
forces and was incorporated into post -war US

01:00:46.090 --> 01:00:49.090
despite concerns over his background check describing

01:00:49.090 --> 01:00:52.190
him as an enthusiastic Nazi loyalist, but it

01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:54.789
was for the greater good. He worked on both the

01:00:54.789 --> 01:00:57.349
U .S. ballistic missile program and the Saturn

01:00:57.349 --> 01:01:00.170
V rocket under Von Braun. Rudolph was highly

01:01:00.170 --> 01:01:02.730
decorated and considered one of the program's

01:01:02.730 --> 01:01:06.469
most successful recruits. In 1984, under perceived

01:01:06.469 --> 01:01:09.570
threat of prosecution of his use of slave labor

01:01:09.570 --> 01:01:13.130
from Metal Bow Dora concentration camp at the

01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:15.949
middle work, he renounced his U .S. citizenship

01:01:15.949 --> 01:01:18.809
and moved to West Germany. He was called in and

01:01:18.809 --> 01:01:21.530
interrogated. There was a trade made for the

01:01:21.530 --> 01:01:23.869
U .S. not persecuting him. that he would give

01:01:23.869 --> 01:01:26.230
up his U .S. citizenship and return to Germany.

01:01:26.389 --> 01:01:28.409
I guess at that point they got what they wanted

01:01:28.409 --> 01:01:32.050
out of him, and in 1983 he left the U .S. The

01:01:32.050 --> 01:01:34.929
recruits of Project Paperclip are dead now, but

01:01:34.929 --> 01:01:37.409
they built much of the infrastructure of NASA

01:01:37.409 --> 01:01:39.889
and the U .S. ballistic missile program that

01:01:39.889 --> 01:01:42.989
we know today. This wasn't the only operation

01:01:42.989 --> 01:01:46.570
to ensure the movement of Nazi scientists. Russia

01:01:46.570 --> 01:01:49.570
had an equivalent plan, although it is very different

01:01:49.570 --> 01:01:53.159
in nature. Operation Oswabia Kim. It was the

01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:54.940
Soviet operation which took place on October

01:01:54.940 --> 01:01:59.059
22nd, 1946. This is after the war when the Soviet

01:01:59.059 --> 01:02:02.420
army unit removed more than 2 ,200 German specialists

01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:05.260
with a total of more than 6 ,000 people including

01:02:05.260 --> 01:02:08.119
family members from the Soviet occupation zone

01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:11.079
of World War II Germany for employment in Soviet

01:02:11.079 --> 01:02:13.960
Union. Most of those people served on a five

01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:17.179
-year contract just outside of Moscow where they

01:02:17.179 --> 01:02:21.340
trained and provided their expertise. to soviet

01:02:21.340 --> 01:02:23.900
scientists and then were allowed to do what they

01:02:23.900 --> 01:02:26.519
will most of them returned to germany or stayed

01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:28.440
in soviet union depending on what they wanted

01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:31.559
that is very different i yeah i found it very

01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:33.380
different some of them said it was deplorable

01:02:33.380 --> 01:02:35.820
conditions others described it as the exact same

01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:37.920
conditions of the other scientists and fairly

01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:40.880
comfortable by soviet union standards it was

01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:42.880
really a fixed term contract for all of them

01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.039
so weird that the u .s was in such a crunch to

01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:49.070
take these scientists away from And with that,

01:02:49.269 --> 01:02:54.030
I think that's all we have for now on, what is

01:02:54.030 --> 01:02:57.150
this, Project Paperclip? Project Paperclip at

01:02:57.150 --> 01:02:58.869
the end of the day, that's what we talked about,

01:02:58.969 --> 01:03:02.449
yes. So that's the story of the greater good

01:03:02.449 --> 01:03:05.429
winning over and thankfully allowing the Nazis

01:03:05.429 --> 01:03:08.559
to get us to space. One question that I had when

01:03:08.559 --> 01:03:10.980
I was doing this research is the Nazis weren't

01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:15.179
just the Nazis. They were the Axis powers of

01:03:15.179 --> 01:03:18.579
Japan, Germany, and Italy. But Project Paperclip

01:03:18.579 --> 01:03:21.559
only talks about Germany. Now, why is that? I

01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:23.880
found that odd. And I find that is tied with

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:26.860
my question of, like, why German scientists?

01:03:26.940 --> 01:03:30.440
Like, why is that what we thought, or not we,

01:03:30.679 --> 01:03:33.340
the United States thought was, like, what they

01:03:33.340 --> 01:03:36.550
needed to do all of this? Yeah, and a lot of

01:03:36.550 --> 01:03:39.309
that does have to do with the V2. Italy isn't

01:03:39.309 --> 01:03:42.110
a question at all because Russia and Italy do

01:03:42.110 --> 01:03:44.949
not share a border at this time. I use the term

01:03:44.949 --> 01:03:47.449
Russia and USSR interchangeably this entire time.

01:03:47.610 --> 01:03:51.110
When I use Russia, I mean the greater USSR because

01:03:51.110 --> 01:03:53.030
the borders need to make sense for what we're

01:03:53.030 --> 01:03:56.489
talking about generally. Italy had surrendered

01:03:56.489 --> 01:03:59.809
earlier on and the western allies were able to

01:03:59.809 --> 01:04:02.269
ponder what they wished from those scientists

01:04:02.269 --> 01:04:05.309
already. Germany was directly on the border with

01:04:05.309 --> 01:04:07.590
Russia, they have rocket technology, they were

01:04:07.590 --> 01:04:10.030
the greater power compared to Italy. Maybe that's

01:04:10.030 --> 01:04:12.469
why. But that leaves the question of why not

01:04:12.469 --> 01:04:15.789
Japan? There are reasonable answers that I have

01:04:15.789 --> 01:04:19.030
found, one of which is that Russia and Japan

01:04:19.030 --> 01:04:22.030
were never on good terms. In fact, fun fact of

01:04:22.030 --> 01:04:24.869
the day, technically World War II still continues

01:04:24.869 --> 01:04:27.449
on to this day because Japan and Russia have

01:04:27.449 --> 01:04:29.690
never signed a peace treaty. I didn't know that.

01:04:29.869 --> 01:04:33.150
They actually are still fighting over an island

01:04:33.150 --> 01:04:36.150
in the northern part of Japan as to who actually

01:04:36.150 --> 01:04:40.079
controls it. And the last time there were talks

01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:44.280
in 2019 between Japan and Russia about signing

01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:47.119
a peace treaty to formally end World War II,

01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:50.519
and there is no update from it. So it is still

01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:52.980
technically ongoing. We learned it here on Journey

01:04:52.980 --> 01:04:58.719
to the French. Yes. The other part of it is ethnocentrism

01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:00.900
maybe a bit of xenophobia i think is better described

01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:03.619
as ethnocentrism we didn't even know what japanese

01:05:03.619 --> 01:05:06.380
scientists were working on therefore they had

01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:08.840
no idea what scientists they would want to recruit

01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:11.300
whereas when you're looking at it like when they're

01:05:11.300 --> 01:05:14.139
talking about like physics and rocket propulsion

01:05:14.139 --> 01:05:18.159
technologies. A lot of the professors and intellectuals

01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:22.400
in America would know which prominent professors

01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:24.860
and intellectuals in all of Europe were working

01:05:24.860 --> 01:05:27.199
on the same technologies or were experts in their

01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:30.699
field because it's all shared intellect. Yeah.

01:05:30.989 --> 01:05:33.570
So part of it is they just didn't know which

01:05:33.570 --> 01:05:35.510
Japanese scientists were worthwhile and what

01:05:35.510 --> 01:05:37.550
they were working on. And the last little bit

01:05:37.550 --> 01:05:40.150
of it is racism in the sense that they did not

01:05:40.150 --> 01:05:42.250
think Japanese scientists will be able to easily

01:05:42.250 --> 01:05:46.090
adapt into American society. All good answers.

01:05:46.309 --> 01:05:49.650
And that is why this all revolves around Nazis.

01:05:50.259 --> 01:05:53.400
And we will we'll talk about feudal Japan at

01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.239
a later date or I guess Imperial Japan is the

01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:58.460
correct way to describe it at a later date. We've

01:05:58.460 --> 01:06:01.179
talked about it before that we will do an episode

01:06:01.179 --> 01:06:03.780
on their war crimes. At this time, though, we're

01:06:03.780 --> 01:06:06.280
just going to leave it at that. And that is the

01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:09.239
story of why Nazis got us to the moon and why

01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:12.039
they still may be there. If you believe what's

01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:14.800
the name of that movie? Is it Iron Sky or it's

01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:17.119
Nazis on the dark side of the moon? Oh, I don't

01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:19.380
know. It's a good movie. Sounds like a movie

01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:22.880
I want to watch. I think it's Iron Sky. Okay.

01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:26.340
Yep, Iron Sky. It's a good movie. I highly recommend

01:06:26.340 --> 01:06:29.559
it. Proof that the Nazis both got to the moon

01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:33.800
and inhabit it to this day, waiting on us to

01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:35.860
show our weaknesses. Yeah. But in the meantime,

01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:38.820
we'll leave it at that. That has been our explanation

01:06:38.820 --> 01:06:42.099
of why we had Nazis come over and Project Caper

01:06:42.099 --> 01:06:43.869
clip us out of how we got them here. Chelsea,

01:06:44.010 --> 01:06:45.969
any final thoughts? I went through a wide range

01:06:45.969 --> 01:06:49.289
of emotions while researching this. It's nothing

01:06:49.289 --> 01:06:52.610
new on this podcast that I'm just always shocked

01:06:52.610 --> 01:06:56.690
by the ability to turn a blind eye to war crimes

01:06:56.690 --> 01:06:59.550
and atrocities that are to happen for the greater

01:06:59.550 --> 01:07:02.429
good, I guess. But I think a big part of it,

01:07:02.429 --> 01:07:04.789
too, is the people that negotiate the peace trees

01:07:04.789 --> 01:07:08.329
at the end of the war generally aren't part of

01:07:08.329 --> 01:07:11.130
the class who that had to fight the war. So they.

01:07:12.179 --> 01:07:14.460
emotionally. Oh no, it's always the higher -ups.

01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:16.860
It's never those people who are fighting any

01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:19.539
war. They're able to stay out of it. So they

01:07:19.539 --> 01:07:22.579
can think about it in a quote -unquote greater

01:07:22.579 --> 01:07:25.280
good sense. Yes, they can because they're not

01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:28.380
affected by it the way people fighting in it

01:07:28.380 --> 01:07:30.219
and their families are, like the people living

01:07:30.219 --> 01:07:33.760
in their countries. Yeah. But those are my thoughts

01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:36.539
on it. I think at the end of the day, we all

01:07:36.539 --> 01:07:40.480
just formed a little bit of emotions over an

01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:42.980
inanimate object that is most commonly found

01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:49.340
in office praise. Paper clips. Ah, yes. The paper

01:07:49.340 --> 01:07:52.719
clip. Yeah. The noble paper clip. And in the

01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:55.099
meantime, we have been Your Noble Podcast, Journey

01:07:55.099 --> 01:07:57.920
to the Fringe, giving you those fringy topics

01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.880
you crave the most. and the education that you

01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:03.139
need having already made your new year's resolutions.

01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:05.960
I have been Taylor. As always, I have been Chelsea.

01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:08.239
We will leave you with that and we will see you

01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:15.559
next week. Take care, everybody. Bye. Thank you

01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:18.000
for listening to Journey to the Fringe. If you

01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.479
have liked what you have listened to, please

01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:23.979
like, share, subscribe, or follow, depending

01:08:23.979 --> 01:08:26.680
on what venue you are listening to us through.

01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:29.680
Also, please, if possible, leave a five -star

01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:32.720
review as that really helps us in the algorithms.

01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:35.279
Should you wish to interact with us, please check

01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:38.439
us out on your social media of choice. I bet

01:08:38.439 --> 01:08:41.239
you we are there. And if you really want to communicate

01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:44.079
with us and give us ideas for new episodes or

01:08:44.079 --> 01:08:46.250
tell us that were wrong and terrible either way,

01:08:46.449 --> 01:08:49.510
please send us an email at journeytothefringe

01:08:49.510 --> 01:08:52.550
at gmail .com. For now, I'll see you in the next

01:08:52.550 --> 01:08:52.989
episode.