From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
us on a journey to the fringe. Hello and welcome
to Journey to the Fringe. If we haven't made
it clear yet, just email us. We're lonely. Please.
We are your lonely podcast hosts, Taylor and
Chelsea. Weirdly that we are too, and still lonely,
but here we are, nonetheless. And weirdly enough,
also a two -parter on the part two. And I'll
let Chelsea go from here. Wow, that was incredible.
Okay, so if you remember from last week, we recapped
Opus Day. We were talking about Opus Day. Right,
right. I'm pretty sure that's what happened last
week. It's been a long time. It's been a week.
So we're into the fringy business of Opus Dei.
Last week, we talked about how they were kind
of implied with Banco Ambrosiano. What else did
we talk about? Oh, the original Vatican Bank
fraud one. Yeah, that was the one I just said.
Oh, was that? Banco Ambrosiano. I thought that
was the Spanish Bank. And then... Also, another
bank, Spain's Banco Popular. Two banks. We talked
about two banks. Two bancos. Yeah, two bancos
last week in which Opus Dei had ties in. I'm
not going to tell you all about it in this episode
because that was last week's episode. You can
always listen to it again. We do make that available
for you. It's just a special benefit of listening
to us. Just email us the 20, okay? Email us.
It's kind of on the honor system. So let's just
jump right into the other allegations, I guess,
of what Opus Dei is up to in this day and age.
I hope I summarized that good enough. If not,
too bad. Allegations of human trafficking. Yep.
Okay. Yep. And these are called the Little Sisters.
Okay. That's a terrible name. I'm not looking
forward to this. Yep. This one's a very dark
one. currently being discussed, and I believe
in court as well, in 2025 -2026, in Argentina,
a group of women, former numerary assistants,
if you will remember back from our Kohl's Notes
of Opus Dei, these are the women who are segregated
to be nannies, cooks, you know, take care of
all that stuff, because that's what you do as
a female. who have filed lawsuits alleging that
they were trafficked. They claim they were recruited
as teenagers from poor families with the promise
of an education under the guise of attending
hospitality schools, but were instead allegedly
trafficked across borders, Paraguay, Bolivia,
Uruguay, where they were instead forced into
unpaid domestic servitude. cleaning the houses
of wealthy members for decades without pay or
social security, essentially being indentured
servants for God. In a major 2024 -2025 legal
battle, federal prosecutors in Argentina accused
Opus Dei of human trafficking and labor exploitation.
43 women, mostly from rural backgrounds, who
were recruited as teenagers, some as young as
12 or 16, are the victims. I'm sure there's more.
These are the women who are currently involved
in this legal action. I'm just curious, Chelsea,
are they from one particular country or are they
just kind of from all over? It sounds like they're
kind of from all over. It sounds like as... being
trafficked, and it looks like mainly Argentina,
but we're looking at Paraguay, Bolivia, a lot
of Central South America countries. For decades,
they worked 12 to 15 hours a day cooking and
cleaning for the elite members. They alleged
they were never paid, had their wages redistributed
back to the organization, and were often denied
social security or pension contributions. This
is an active and evolving legal situation. Federal
prosecutors in Argentina have officially indicted
high -ranking members of Opus Dei. I'm going
to post some of the sources for it. this up in
the episode notes. I have an article from The
Guardian titled, I Became Like a Slave, Why 43
Women Are Suing the Secretive Opus Dei Catholic
Group in Argentina. So the indictment specifically
names Monsignor Mariano Fazio the second in command
of Opus Dei worldwide as a defendant. So I guess
there are people who are, like, in charge and
stuff. So I wonder. I am curious about how. Nobody's
in charge. He's just a number two. He's number
two. But who would be the number one? No number
one. There's lots of number twos. He's the highest
they go. Yeah. So remember back from the last
episode, Gareth Gore, who wrote that book, which
was a little bit of a spoiler alert because in
along with that, when I told you the topics,
I did say human trafficking. He got into the,
he's a pretty interesting, I've listened to some
podcasts with him on there. He originally got
into this doing some investigation on the Spanish
bank and he got into like, he ended up writing
this crazy book. He's the guy who was on majority
report. Gareth Gore. Yeah. Yeah. So there you
go. I will give that a listen. So he reports
on this as well. And he just goes crazy into
Opus Dei after finding this out about investigating
the Spanish bank and their ties to Opus Dei.
So he interviews whistleblowers and looks into
investigations, particularly in Argentina, involving
the recruitment of young girls from low -income
families. He alleges they were lured into the
organization and forced into years of unpaid
domestic labor at Opus Dei centers. So there's
that. Pretty good. That one's ongoing. we'll
do a mini in the future just to update what's
going on with it the next is as i mentioned in
our last episode as well opus day Like, you kind
of get some cult vibes off of it, right? Oh,
yeah, for sure. Gore also delves into the secretive
world of numeraries and their cult -like practices
of Opus Dei. If you'll remember, the numeraries
are celibate members who live in gender -segregated
houses. He details the mortification of the flesh,
which is the use of the cellus, the spike chain
around the thigh, and the discipline, whip. I
guess that means, with no further details. So
good notes, Chelsea. Good work. No notes. No
notes. No more details. Just whip. I did watch
an interview with, they're funny with their secretive.
They're not allowed to do interviews, really,
if they're a member of Opus Dei. regarding practices
or anything makes sense probably unless it's
portrayed in the proper light yeah like recruitment
videos or something or you know yeah it's another
Opus Dei person doing the interview yeah yeah
so it was only ex -members that they were able
to some wouldn't even give their identity but
one of the guys that I watched he showed the
thing that goes around the thigh he still had
it for some I don't know why you would keep that
as like I think at some point you start to like
it or like mean I don't know that he would be
wearing it. Do you think that he would be wearing
it if he left Opus Dei? Maybe. I don't know.
He didn't lift up his pant leg and it was on.
Old people are constantly wearing ties out in
public despite the fact that they're not comfy
and not required for their everyday life. I never
thought about how uncomfy a tie would be. Is
it uncomfy? Yeah. I mean, it's something that's
threatening to strangle you the entire time you're
out using it. That's true. Just like lightly
strangling you throughout the day. Never thought
of it that way. Just give me a reminder that
your life can be taken very quickly. Due to your
own personal choice, or at least your boss's
personal choice. I should give people more ties
for presents. I really don't hope you get me
for Secret Santa this year. That is a threat,
I will tell them. I'll write it in their card.
You could have gotten a tie. No, I got you this
tie as a threat. Oh, good. Don't forget, you
could die. Recruitment tactics used include grooming
child numeraries as young as 14. As I was saying,
it was... We knew about that, yeah. In the other
one, it was young girl. It's almost like grooming.
Oh, it is grooming. Completely like grooming.
Weirdly, there haven't been sex allegations,
which I'm not saying... As like, I don't know.
I don't know how to move forward with that. Other
than making that statement and being quiet. I
mean, it's just an assumption at this point because
they're part of the Catholic Church. Yeah. I
don't think I directly address any sexual stuff
in this. But you gotta think. They are Catholics.
You've got a lot of celibate men that, like,
that's how the entire Catholic Church is supposed
to work. And man, that did not work out. No,
it does not work out at all. Which is something,
actually, I'm glad you brought that up. Because,
I mean, that alone has huge implications of all
the celibate men altogether. Like, that's never
good. So, yeah, they have their grooming. They
have psychological control. Allegations of members
being prescribed heavy psychiatric drugs to remain
compliant. We've already discussed... Like how
heavy? 20 pounds? 30 pounds? Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
And we've already discussed emails being monitored,
financial control. So there are a lot of cult
-like practices going on in this. Control of
banks, right? That you see in cults. Yeah. I'm
just waiting to hear which news source they own
at this point. Yeah. Because that's when you
really know you've made it as a cult, is when
you own a newspaper. That is very true, actually,
if I've learned anything from our podcast. Next
point is, I can't wait to find out what this
means, because I can't remember. the pinky and
the brain level of influence. There is a persistent
theory that Opus Dei operates like a white masonry,
a secret society of the elite. High -level reach
because they target intellectuals and leaders.
People have accused them of placing members in
the U .S. Supreme Court, the FBI, and major European
governments to steer global policy toward ultra
-conservative religious goals. Why are there
so many that want ultra -conservative? Why can't
we have one that's pushing towards socialism?
I know, right? I know. Like, just give us one.
Come on, Opus Dei. You don't have it in you,
obviously. You're Opus Dei. But, like, I get
what you're saying. Like, why not have, like,
a liberal, very liberal cult? Do they exist?
I don't think they would. I'm sure they do. I
would have to think about it. That's kind of
off the top of our head at this point, but I'm
sure somebody will be screaming at us for it.
Oh, that would be a good episode. We should find
one and do an episode on that. I'd be interested
in that. Maybe I'll join them. I don't know.
I don't know yet. I haven't heard the episode,
so I don't know if I'm interested yet. Maybe
one day I'll find out. Okay, so they have high
-level reach. Which we kind of had to discuss
in this episode or the last one. I can't remember
now. They're all blending together. It's been
a week. How am I supposed to remember? Well,
J .D. Vance is out there. Like we talked about
him fairly early on. Yeah, J .D. Vance. Something
about him. The shadow government. Critics point
to their $47 million headquarters in Manhattan
and their influence in Washington, D .C. as evidence
that they aren't just a prayer group, but a political
lobbying machine disguised as a ministry with
ties even to the current president. Good point.
That's a very good point, my notes. I still don't
know what pinky in the brain level of influence
means, though. Who came up with that? The next
one is modern slavery in plain sight. Whistleblowers
like Eileen Allen, whose memoir, I Am Eileen,
was recently released, describe a life of total
control. She was an Opus Dei member, in case
I don't say that. Quick question for you, Chelsea.
Are most of the people that are complaining about
Opus Dei women? Yeah. Okay. So the celibate men
actually don't, like, overall aren't complaining
that much about the situation. No, I can't say
that. No, and you did say some, like he does
interview them, but it just seems like the specific
ones that were coming out, like the lawsuit and
then this woman are women. Yeah, you're not wrong.
I... Did not include any men it looks like so
far. I don't believe I do. No, but you did talk
about that. You did talk about that one that
Gareth Gore did interview who still keeps his
thigh slasher thing. That was not Gareth Gore.
That was just a documentary that I... Just an
interview. Okay, okay. There were lots of men
in there speaking out about them. These ones
are more... It seems like women are more... easily
going on a record about it then. But they're
not getting, it doesn't seem like, to positions
of power within Opus Dei. They're actually treated
quite poorly. And it basically is modern slavery.
Their role within this organization is being
a slave. Oh, is to be a maid. An unpaid maid.
And that is slavery. So they do have more to
complain about. I mean, the men just have to
complain about being celibate. Yeah, but the
women complain about being celibate, but also
a slave. Yes, exactly. So, I mean, the men can
come out and talk out against it. These are what
I believe to be a lot more controversial than
just the men being like, ugh, like, I had to
self -flagellate. But do the men technically
not meet the definition of slavery, too, in that
they don't have any money? That's true. Because
they have to give it all to the church. That's
true. But also, I don't know, does that meet
the definition of slavery? I don't know. What
is the definition? I have a vague idea of what
slavery is. But then they have to give it all
to the church. How do you define it? point slavery
like what is the definition the state of being
a slave oh good that's exactly you've been optimized
so well okay let's see miriam webster dictionary
defines slavery as the practice or institution
of holding people as chattel involuntary and
under threat of violence The state of a person
who is forced, usually under threat of violence,
to labor for the profit of another. A situation
or practice in which people are coerced to under
conditions that are exploitative. Submission
to a dominating influence. Yeah, I mean it does
fit that. Yeah, I guess they both do. So. It's
just like different coercions and like situations
that they find themselves in, but yeah. Yeah,
so Opus Dei slave owners. Slaves. Just in general,
not just female slaves. Let's continue to talk
about... modern slavery in plain sight. Whistleblowers
like Eileen Allen, she describes a life of total
control. Directors allegedly read all incoming
and outgoing mail, even phone calls to parents
were monitored or forbidden. Members were often
told that leaving the group was betraying God
and would lead to eternal damnation for their
entire family. That would be hard if you, like,
really believe in a religion. That's like, the
Jehovah's basically say that too. Yeah, no, that's
true. Although the question really is, are they
cults too? Yeah. And yeah, we run into really
fine questions about what makes a cult versus
a religion. Yeah, in my eyes all the same. But
slavery probably makes the cult. Yep, it does.
I believe that's a fact. Many members found themselves
with zero savings or even bank accounts after
decades of service, leaving them trapped because
they had no financial means to escape. That's
financial abuse. That is the hard thing, yeah.
No, nobody can leave because, like, where are
they going to go? Because nobody has a bank account.
That's crazy. Allen describes how the organization
allegedly used the blacklist of forbidden books
and films and how directors would routinely read
and censor members' personal letters to family.
That's insane. She details the vocational trap
where leaving the group was equating with losing
your soul or spiritual suicide. Eileen's account
provides the internal perspective of the psychological
and physical control used within the centers.
Yeah, so, slaves. Next one, the Silas and mind
control. Pop culture, thanks to the Da Vinci
Code, loves the scary monk trope. Celibate members
do use the celis, the spike chain, as we've clarified
multiple times in these episodes, and the discipline,
usually for two hours a day or during specific
prayers. Ex -members have described psychological
coercion, where directors... I almost called
them dictators, read their outgoing mail, dictated
which books they could read and force them to
confess their private thoughts to lay superiors,
not just priests, which is a huge no -no in standard
Catholic practice. While Opus Dei publicly downplays
corporal mortification as minor discomfort, whistleblowers
describe a more intense psychological environment.
The Celis? Former members confirm the use of
the spiked thigh chain for two hours daily to
describe it as leaving small prick holes in the
flesh that made them self -conscious about ever
wearing a swimsuit or shorts around non -members.
Some members were encouraged to sleep on the
floor or without a pillow as a form of nightly
mortification. I did see one that was made to
use a phone book instead of a pillow. Like as
punishment or because they had to memorize it?
The phone book. Yeah. Both. Okay. Yeah. Founders
allegedly taught that the body must be beaten
into a slave so it doesn't turn traitor to the
spirit. Aha. Yeah. A source for this one, The
Case Against Opus Dei, National Catholic Reporter.
I'll throw it into the episode notes for you
to do much more research or little research.
It's a do as you choose type thing. It'll be
in the notes waiting for you if you want those.
We have no force to work on this podcast. Yeah,
it's true. So we have some current drama going
on with the Pope. The current Pope, Pope Leo
the, I think we landed on 9th. 9th, yes. This
is actually a hot topic in the church right now.
As of late 2025, early 2026. Pope Leo IX, following
the lead of Pope Francis, has been tightening
the leash on Opus Dei. For decades, the leader
of Opus Dei was usually made a bishop. What?
Like, at the Vatican? Yeah, just a high up person.
That is insane. Now, the Vatican says he cannot
be a bishop no more. Huh. Yeah. The Vatican wants
to make sure Opus Dei is seen as a group of regular
people, the lay people, as they had said, serving
God, rather than a mini church within the church.
They're basically being told you're a service
club for the soul, not a private kingdom. By
Pope Knight. Leo the Knight. Yeah, Leo. Forgot
the Leo there. So I'm sure you were really anticipating
this one. And this is modern political influence
that Opus Dei had. It got my juices flowing with
all that talk about their headquarters in Washington,
D .C. and stuff like that. Even Taylor talking
about J .D. Vance. Gore's book goes into this
as well. Sounds like a really good read. He looks
into this and makes waves by connecting the organization
to current U .S. politics. Gore tracks Opus Dei's
role in bankrolling right -wing causes and its
links to figures like Leonard Leo and the Heritage
Foundation. Leonard Leo, he's the head of the
Heritage Foundation. Leonard Leo and the Heritage,
head of the Heritage Foundation. They're basically,
and if you need an idea of who this is. He tells
Trump who to appoint as judges. Okay. And he
got a ton of money. Like somebody donated several
billion dollars to them two years ago. And like
all three of the Supreme Court justices that
Trump put up there were members of the Heritage
Foundation. And pretty much everybody who's been
appointed as a federal judge is a member of the
Heritage Foundation. They're on a list of people
that Leonard Leo just gives to Trump to appoint.
Cool. Sounds fantastic. Probably a good episode
of its own at some point. Probably. Yeah. We're
not quite a politics show. We're a fringe topic
show where we talk about how shitty the politics
are at this point. And not to that point, but
it was a good point that we're not a politics
show. Kind of. We're a fringe show. I mean, don't
come here for the politics because you're going
to get Bigfoot too. But I gotta say, Bigfoot
is probably an anarcho -socialist. We do it all
here, Journey to the Fringe. Investigative journalists
have documented deep ties between his administration
and individuals closely associated with the organization.
The connection is generally described not as
a direct religious affiliation, but as a strategic
alliance between Trump's mega movement and the
traditional Catholic power structure in Washington,
D .C. The legal architect, Leonard Leo. The most
significant link is Leonard Leo, the longtime
leader of the Federalist Society. Oh, sorry.
Yeah. Federalist Society, not the Heritage Foundation.
Heritage Foundation is different. It's the Federalist
Society that he's the head of. Okay. Well, now
I'm confused. Yeah. Okay. Heritage Foundation
is something different. Okay. So what you were
talking about was the Federalist Society? Yes.
Okay. The Federalist Society is the thing that
lawyers join and are members of. Okay. So...
And my next point is exactly what Taylor pretty
much gave a rundown of. So Leo, he's the primary
architect of Trump's judicial appointments, including
the selection of Supreme Court Justices Neil
Gorsuch. Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett.
Leo is a prominent Catholic layman with deep
ties to Opus Dei. He has served on the board
of the Catholic Information Center, CIC, and
DIC, which is run by Opus Dei priests and serves
as a hub for the conservative Catholic elite.
So weird. Gore's book argues that the overturning
of Roe versus Wade was the culmination of decades
of lobbying by this Opus Dei adjacent network.
I hate that. Okay, so Project 2025 and Kevin
Roberts. Kevin Roberts, the president of the
Heritage Foundation, which is a totally different
thing, I guess, from the Federalist Society,
from what I've learned so far. They are. Yeah,
that one's a, oh, what was their name? Koch Brothers.
thing they funded it as a political movement
we did something with that didn't we we've talked
about the Koch brothers before David and I think
David's the one that's left but um probably just
keep going yeah I intend to thank you So Kevin
Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation
and the driving force behind Project 2025, is
another key figure. Roberts has publicly stated
that he receives regular spiritual guidance from
the Opus Dei -led Catholic Information Center.
Critics and journalists like Gore point out that
many of the policy goals in Project 2025, such
as restructuring the federal government and implementing
strict socially conservative laws, align with
the integralist philosophy often found in Opus
Dei circles which seek to integrate Catholic
teaching into civil law. Several high -ranking
members of Trump's first and current administrations
have had documented ties to the organization
or centers. Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former acting
chief of staff and OMB director, was a frequent
visitor to the Catholic Information Center and
has been linked to the network Gore describes
as the Opus Dei syndicate in D .C. Pat Cipollone.
Trump's former White House counsel also has longstanding
ties to the same conservative Catholic circles
in Washington. And apparently J .D. Vance. I
don't even think that J .D. Vance makes it onto
this list. Because he doesn't do anything, let's
face it. It's true. If he actually did something
or was entertaining in any way, maybe we would
talk about him. He gets booed a lot. Interestingly,
as of late 2025, early 2026, the relationship
has shown signs of strain. Trump has recently
lashed out at Leonardo Leo, calling him a sleazebag
on Truth Social after some of Leo's judicial
picks did not rule. Yeah, they didn't do what
he wanted. Yeah. Conversely many traditionalist
Catholics associated with Opus Dei have expressed
conflict over Trump's shifting rhetoric on certain
issues even while supporting his broader judicial
and regulatory agenda. And then there's the Black
Pope myth. Because of their unique legal status
reporting directly to the Pope, they have often
been called a church within a church, operating
with a level of autonomy that makes outsiders
and even other Catholic priests highly suspicious.
Hmm. Well, and that weirdly makes sense with
the amount of people who are Catholic within
the Trump administration who say they know better
than Pope Leo. like like they understand catholicism
better than the pope which is like categorically
as a catholic you can't think that because the
pope is literally god's voice on earth oh yeah
no it's like not it's not necessarily outright
said but they constantly say how they disagree
with how the pope views things which would make
sense if they kind of have their own like view
of what the pope is or a separate pope yeah interesting
and i don't think that that's like Something
I could imagine. I don't know, like, that much
about the Catholic Church. Like, I know about
the asshole popes. Like, the important ones so
far. I'm sure there's going to be more that I'll
learn about asshole popes. Oh, there's some good
asshole popes out there that we'll cover. Oh,
they probably don't like to be told that, like,
Catholics don't agree with their views. Because
they're, like, the almighty. Yeah. It also weirdly
brings up, this is a weird topic, that, like,
J .D. Vance was one of the last people to meet
with Pope Francis. before he died. Interesting.
There's an Opus Dei tie there as well. Yeah.
I didn't even think of that. And here I thought
it was just the black hole of his charisma that
sucked into the last fleeting life force of the
Pope. And then he dies. Anyhow, we got this tie
as well between Trump and Opus Dei. It's essentially
transactional. Trump provided the political power
to appoint conservative judges and enact specific
policies, while the Opus Dei -linked intellectual
and legal network provided the dark money, the
vetting process for judges, and ideological blueprint,
like Project 2025, to run the government. So,
that's the end of my Opus Dei episode. It's two
episodes with Kuhl's notes. I can't do a 25 part
or Opus Dei episode for you. I just can't. They
use influence. They use money. They have two
corrupt banks, at least so far. And apparently
everybody's wages that they're just of the slaves
that they own. So they have a lot of money and
it's just crazy. And they just seem to be getting
more powerful. They do because they're just getting
more and more money. And then. This is where
you see people with a lot of money then go to
Washington, D .C., for example, and then they
use their influence there to influence conservative
politics because they have the money. They have
the people and influence. And it's just crazy
how kind of far it goes. And that's where I can
see the connection. And how easily it moves.
Yeah. With secret societies because of like the
tentacles that it reaches out. And it's not a
good organization. And which is crazy that money
has that much influence. It shouldn't have that
much influence when it comes to politics. You
see it all over the place. And it's just another
tentacle. don't know why i'm thinking so much
about tentacles right now but there's like tentacles
all over the place tentacles of influence tentacles
of money tentacles into politics um it's just
a tentacle it's just tentacles that's all the
world really is yeah so that's opus day huh yeah
and tentacles Sadly, I don't think this will
be the last time that we have to talk about them
because I don't see their power waning in the
near future. No, hopefully a little bit with
number nine, Leo. Yeah. Taking it away a little
bit. No, that's with the church. I'm worried
more so that it's going to be a political movement
in the States for a long time. Yeah, no. Yeah.
I mean, the Pope's not going to take that away.
Um, he's just not. So I guess we just kind of,
this will likely sadly be an update in the future
where we talk about how, remember that time where
we weren't all ruled by Open Bay? Yep, that's
where my mind went as well. Yeah. But I guess
in the meantime, I have been Taylor, here with
Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank
you all for listening and we'll see you next
week. Tentacles. Thank you for listening to Journey
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