From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
us on a journey to the fringe. Hello and welcome
to Journey to the Fringe, the only podcast where
we are all about just eating pretzels and learning
about fringe stuff. Now, we are your hosts, Taylor
and Chelsea. I'm here today. We're doing a Chelsea
episode, so I get to eat the pretzels today.
Honestly, I'm a little taken aback that they're
not Cheezys. We know what Cheezys sound like,
though. That's the problem. We really do. I can't
remember what episode it is, but we know. We
don't know, but we know about the Cheezys. Okay,
well, I guess this is where I start talking.
Taylor keeps chewing his pretzels. I'm busy.
I have a fun episode today for you, Taylor, and
everyone else that's listening, I guess, that
I don't think you're going to be expecting. Can
I take a guess? Yeah. Is it Friar Bernardi? No,
that's a good idea for an episode. I want to
know more about Friar Bernardi. I wonder what's
happened to him. I am afraid because I haven't
heard about him for a while. You don't think
the AI got him, do you? I sure hope not. With
the things coming out on AI right now, I'm a
little worried. I need to, didn't we come to
a realization we were saying his name wrong?
Benanti. Yes, we did. But we only said it in
text, so. I had other stuff written down to say,
but it's not going to make sense anymore. Opus
Dei, Latin for work of God. Is an organization.
I know one of their most famous members as of
right now, who's in the midst of war. Sorry,
what? JD Vance is an Opus Dei. He is? Yeah. I
thought you meant personally. No, I don't know
personally, but JD Vance is an Opus Dei member.
Whatever makes sense. It's an organization within
the Catholic Church that focuses on the idea
that everyone, not just priests or nuns, can
become a saint through their everyday life and
work. You may be familiar with Opus Dei as of
recent of... Oh no, I didn't write this down.
That movie with Tom Hanks. Oh, it's the Da Vinci
Code. Da Vinci Code, yes. Or they're kind of,
like, they're kind of radicals. Like, they self
-flatulate, don't they? Self -flatulate. I'm
not familiar with that term. They whip themselves.
They what? They whip themselves. Yes, they do.
Whip themselves. Yeah. Isn't that what it's called?
I don't think so. I would think that that would
be, flatulating would be something else. No,
that is definitely just making yourself fart.
Okay. It's something really close to it, okay?
I did enjoy that. Self -flagellation. Self -flagellation.
I'll never get over this. But I have to. I have
an episode to do. Think of the history of Opus
Dei like a startup that grew into a massive global
corporation within the church, the Catholic Church,
that is. It's a mix of a visionary leader, a
brutal war, and a lot of high -level politics.
I'm about to break down Opus Dei for you because
this episode eventually is going to lead into
another episode that you're going to need all
this information for. It all starts... With a
26 -year -old Spanish priest named Jose Maria
Escriva. October 2nd, 1928, while on a spiritual
retreat, Escriva claimed he saw Opus Dei. He
described it as a divine message. Wait, wait.
Okay, sorry. I thought we were supposed to know
who Opus Dei was or what Opus Dei was at this
point. But okay, you're going to tell us. Well,
Opus Dei, like, he saw Opus Dei as the corporate,
like, not the corporation, but the, like, entity.
It's not like a person. Okay. It started with
just a few students and young professionals in
Madrid. In 1930, he realized women should be
included too, creating a separate branch for
them. That's not really including them, is it?
No, it's not. And that segregation is still a
part of Opus Dei today. We'll touch a little
bit on it as well. Okay. So during the Spanish
Civil War between 1936 and 1939, this is where
the fringe and political theories usually start
surrounding Opus Dei. During the war, the church
was persecuted. Escriva had to go into hiding
and eventually escaped across the Pyrenees Mountains.
There's also a Franco... which was the dictator
of Spain during that time. Yeah, fairly big piece
of shit. Yep. If we're just gonna, yeah. After
the war, Opus Dei grew rapidly under the dictatorship
of Francisco Franco. Yeah, that makes sense.
Dictatorship's kind of like they're cults that
they can kind of control. Yeah, and it's the
power as well. Several Opus Dei members became
high -ranking ministers who helped fix Spain's
economy. Critics say they were too close to a
dictator. Opus Dei says those members were just
acting as individual citizens. Of course. So,
after World War II, Escriva moved the headquarters
to Rome to be closer to the Pope. So, it kind
of gets its start in Spain. Huge in Spain. Wait,
how much closer are they going to move it to?
To Rome? Like, yeah. Yeah, just wait. I guess
they're just moving it to Rome. Okay, okay. Sorry,
I just keep, I keep being like one step ahead.
I guess I should just wait. Stop doing that.
After World War II, Escriva moved the headquarters
to Rome to be closer to the Pope. He traveled
all over Europe and the Americas to spread the
work of Opus Dei. He publishes a book in 1999?
No, that can't be right. That would be 60 years
after its inception. Well, he'd only be 89. He
could do it. It just wouldn't make a lot of sense
to do it at that time. I actually have 999 is
when it's published. So that's definitely not
right. Let me just take a moment. So I always
thought it was kind of something, it's definitely
not part of the Catholic Church, but is Opus
Dei really like one of the first sects to say
like you don't have to go to church to be saintly?
I don't know that actually. Because I always
thought that like... This might just be, like,
because we watched Stigmata growing up, where
I was kind of, like, under the understanding
that that's kind of just, like, the teachings
of Jesus is, like, the church is kind of corrupt,
so you should be able to be, like, holy on your
own. That's so funny, because you said that,
and then I was immediately going to reference
Stigmata as well. Okay. I'm pretty sure it was
the possessed girl in Stigmata. Very influential
movie in our childhood. That's where like 90
% of my religion understanding comes from. And
we took like university level religious classes
too. It's from the priest that possessed the
girl in Stigmata. Okay, so he publishes the book
in 1934, not 999 or 1999, which I tried to correct
myself. So he, it's called The Way and it becomes
a bestseller and is basically the handbook for
members today. It's actually called The Camino,
which means The Way. Okay, that's really interesting
because like Chinese, like... tao teachings is
also called the way oh so i wonder if it was
influenced at all by that i also don't know that
and that's yeah i didn't i could see like religious
teachings being called the way yeah it makes
the way you're supposed to do like everybody
wants to know the way exactly iskriva died in
1975 he was canonized I just have to let you
know. Involves no cannons, yes. Made a saint.
He was not shot out of a cannon like I think
every time that I hear canonized. Which is more
often than you would think. By Pope John Paul
II in 2002. One of the fastest paths to sainthood
in history. Three years after he published his
book in 1934. Yeah, he died. Never mind. It's
a bad joke. It's a bad joke. Oh, okay. I'm confused.
Anyhow, maybe I'll get it when I edit. One of
the fastest, fastest sainthood in history, which
was quite controversial at the time. Moving on
to the golden age of Opus Dei under John Paul
II, 1982, Pope John Paul II was a huge fan of
Opus Dei's conservative energy. In 1982, he gave
them personal prelature status, which made them
essentially untouchable by local bishops and
gave them a direct line to the Vatican. I guess
they do have a problem, actually, with bishops
touching people. Yeah, they do. Huge problem.
They had a few lawsuits about that. Finally,
moving forward from 2022 to the present day,
Pope Francis and now Pope Leo VII? It's a high
number. I remember that. IX? The IX? I think
he's ninth, you're right. I think that's what
that Roman numeral is. Five minus one plus five,
nine. I've been rolling back some of that special
power. They're trying to move Opus Dei away from
being a mini hierarchy and back towards its original
roots as a group for lay people. The history
of Opus Dei is a story of perceived power versus
actual mission. Well, not just perceived, I guess,
because of the power that was invested in them
by the Almighty Catholic Church. On one hand,
you have a saint who wanted to help people pray
while doing the dishes. On the other, you have
a group that rose to power under a Spanish dictator
and gained unprecedented legal independence within
the Vatican. That already seems pretty evil.
The big idea with Opus Dei is the universal call
to holiness, to find God in the middle of ordinary
things like your job, family, and social life.
Members follow a plan of life that includes daily
mass, praying the rosary, reading spiritual books,
and mental prayer, or quiet conversations with
God, I guess is what they also call it. Some
members practice corporal mortification, small
physical sacrifices to join in the suffering
of Christ, as Taylor was talking about with the
self -isolation. Sometimes they just toot. This
ranges from simple things like giving up a snack
to more intense practices like wearing a sillus.
Is that how you would say that? I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know what that is. A small
spike chain around your thigh. Okay. But that's
interesting that it's like fully your choice
if you want to. Yeah. I guess so. Probably for
the... Because it says, like... From what I understand
of it, probably when you're towards the top of
the hierarchy, it's probably more... So, you're
saying J .D. Vance probably doesn't have a Silas,
like, under his, like, his suit as a garter belt.
Yeah, I mean... Per se. He looks like he might.
Yeah. Honestly. And also, I do have to wonder,
because you always get this with cults, where
it's like, oh no, you don't have to do these
things. Kind of like with Shen Yun. What's the
name of that group? Where they're like, oh yeah,
no, don't worry, you can get medical attention.
It's just like, that means you're not in tune
with God, because you can't get sick if you're
with God. Yeah, exactly. That was the point that
I was trying to make. Probably at the higher
levels, it's more of a thing they look at as
an expectation that you're doing. So speaking
of the hierarchy, there are about 95 ,000 members
worldwide organized into different levels based
on their lifestyle. So we have the supernumeraries.
These are married, 70 % of the members, and they
live normal family lives, contribute financially
and follow the daily prayer plan. This is probably
where you're going to see the people who have
a choice about the sacrifices that they're making.
And you're probably going to see a wide variety
there. And of course, you're probably going to
have the people that take it more seriously than
others. Then you have the numeraries. These are
celibate. These are 20 % of the members. And
they live in gender segregated, opus gay centers.
And they hold regular jobs, but give their full
salary to the work. Okay, two things that I'm
curious about. So it's gender segregated. So
is it now that women can join Opus Dei? Or are
they saying like, no, they don't even come into
contact with women in this area? I believe that
we will get into it. I don't know that they would
make it this far up. It's probably something
more like help, so to say. Oh, yeah. So like
they can't have like female maids cleaning the
place. Yes, is what I would assume. Okay, and
then second thing in there, which you also probably
don't have an answer for, but that's okay. I
just want to know for sure. You're saying these
guys are celibate. Is it like they can choose
at a certain point they're going to be celibate?
Or are they like, they have to have been like
virgins to join it? For this hierarchy, it just
says celibate. So I would assume, I mean, to
be at this level, you would have to be. I don't
know about... whether or not it says anything
beforehand yeah okay yeah i wouldn't know but
i'm curious on this one and maybe because they're
all about power so i don't know and i don't know
enough about opus day i've watched a few things
but it never came up like if there was a woman
of power that was in opus day i'm sure that she
could make it up to this numerary level see I
don't think she could, because then she'd have
to live in the gender -segregated area, and I
don't think they would have female gender -segregated
areas, because it doesn't seem that they cater
towards women. Well, I mean, they would have
them gender -segregated, because, I mean, they're
segregated away from other people, right? That
would imply that there's other genders, right?
That would imply that there's... No, it doesn't
imply that there's both. It just implies that
one gender does not come into contact with the
other. It doesn't... necessarily say that they
accommodate both well let's read on and find
out what i have in here okay we'll all find out
together so then the next level we have is the
actually just back on this one they did control
as far as giving their full salary a lot of stuff
is tracked if you're taking the bus what the
money that you're spending stuff on at this level
makes sense yeah because you're going to need
some money to do things but it's very high everything
else needs to go to them yeah Like your party
habit or your cocaine habit. Yeah, exactly. You
can only have so much cocaine per week. So the
next level is the associates, and they're also
celibate. Same spiritual commitment as the numeraries,
but they live with their families or independently.
Interesting they say family, not celibate. I
wonder if that means mom in her basement. That's
true. And she's... A corpse upstairs in the rocking
chair. Perhaps. Next level is the numerary assistants.
These are celibate women. Oh, okay, okay. Yep.
Dedicated full -time to the domestic care. I
knew it. Domestic care, cooking, cleaning of
Opus Dei centers. Well, yeah, they're celibate
men. They aren't great at many things. Interesting.
They have to be celibate, the women. Okay, so
then we have the priests. the ordained clergy
that's about two percent of the members and they
provide spiritual guidance and sacraments to
the group if you walk into a normal catholic
mass you see families from the neighborhood if
you walk into an opus day center you're gonna
see the men and women are segregated and usually
have separate activities the focus is intensely
on professional excellence being the best lawyer
doctor artist that you can be for god because
they don't have a public church building on every
corner. They can seem invisible until you're
in the know. So the whole gist is they are like
a specialized task force within the church. They
follow the same commander -in -chief, the Pope.
They are Catholic, but they have their own uniform,
their own training manual, and they don't report
to the local precinct or local bishop for most
things. That's just briefly the setup for what
I really want to get in this episode, what you
need to know about Opus Dei. So you may be thinking,
where am I going with it? I'm not just preaching
to you the history of Opus Dei for no reason.
I'm going to take you partially there with why
it's controversial, Opus Dei that is. It's a
slow burn in this episode. Opus Dei is often
called the most controversial group in the church.
It's been criticized for secrecy, Critics claim
it operates like a secret society with hidden
agendas and influence and high level politics
and business. Which, I mean, the Da Vinci Code
really helped it with that. With its secrecy?
Yeah. Not its own secrecy, but it kind of put
in all these ideas about Opus Dei as a secret
society, like out there into the... Yeah, well,
and it makes it so easy to make it whatever you
want and like a secret society in your movie.
The fact that nobody really knows about it. Yeah.
Former members have alleged cult -like recruitment
tactics, especially targeting young people. I
was watching a movie, not a movie, like a documentary
about it. This girl who had joined, she was recruited
in a youth group and they would kind of test
the waters as to whether you were open or curious
about it. And then they would kind of leap on
you if you were curious about it. And then they
would go out into the community. and do all these
different sewing classes and book clubs just
to recruit people. Man, why do they have to turn
everything that could be a community into a cult?
So creepy. The commons are really gone at this
point. Nothing but cults out there. Some people
report that directors monitor members' mail,
restrict who they can talk to, and demand extreme
obedience. Because Opus Dei is a personal prelature,
which is a unique legal structure, its leader
reports directly to the Pope, essentially bypassing
local bishops. Question. Yeah. Do we get into
who the leader is or no? Um, no, I don't think
so. Okay. I was just curious because you're talking
about him being like very powerful, but I would
be curious how often they change hands and if
it's like appointed by the Pope or they do like
a thing like the Pope. when they're appointing
their leader or if it's just like a succession
type thing where it's just like, yeah, last guy
picks it. Well, that's a good question because
Escriva was the leader of Opus Dei. Well, that's
what I think, but he's dead. Yeah. Yeah. And
like, I wonder if he gave it up willingly or
if it's like they voted him out at a board of
directors meeting or something like that. Yeah.
I don't know who's Fernando. Or if he was even
ever the leader, like there's a chance that he
created it. And then like somebody took it over
from there pretty quickly because he didn't have
the right mindset for a cult. Honestly, this
is what you know to get into what I'm going to
get into because I knew the episode that I was
going to do, but you kind of need to know a little
bit about Opus Dei to go into it. So it wasn't
like a full breakdown of Opus Dei. I didn't know.
It's the Cole's notes. Gotcha. I didn't know.
Like, this is boring stuff, actually. I needed
to understand first Opus Dei to go where this
is going. So there's no like how. Do the elections
work? I doubt there is an election. I don't know.
But it's a good question for you all to look
into. For somebody to email us about. Yeah. Because
we're always waiting for you guys to do that.
Because Opus Dei, yeah, prelature, bypassing
local bishops, this independence combined with
its focus on influential professionals has cemented
its reputation in pop culture like the Da Vinci
Code as a powerful shadow -cloaked entity. So,
I'm going to do something a little bit different
in this episode, and I'm going to give you something
to look forward to next week. Here's what you've
been waiting for. Things are about to get...
This is where I wanted to go with this episode
and why you needed to know about Opus Dei. Opus
Dei is so private and has such high level connections,
they have become a magnet for some of the wildest
and darkest conspiracy theories in modern history.
Now, where you're thinking this is going to go,
it's not. This is not about a secret society
and conspiracy theories. This episode is now
partially because I'm only going to get into
a few on this episode and then I'm going to leave
you hanging until the next episode next week.
This is about the biggest real -life controversies
connected to Opus Dei going on in the world.
To start with, we have the God's banker mystery,
Banco Ambrosiano. In 1982, an Italian banker
named Roberto Calvi was found hanging under Blackfriars
Bridge in London with bricks in his pocket and
$15 ,000 in cash. Calvi was the head of Banco
Ambrosiano, which had a huge black hole in its
finances. It was discovered the Vatican Bank
was a major shareholder in this bank. Some theorists
and Calvi's own family claimed Opus Dei was trying
to buy its way into becoming the Vatican's new
official bank by bailing out the debt. Rumors
swirled that Calvi was killed because he knew
too much about where the money was going. Opus
Dei has always flatly denied any involvement,
but the murder -suicide debate is still a staple
of true crime in fringe circles. What? It's always
awkward when you gotta make comment on a weird
death. Yeah. So I actually have heard about that
one before. I have too, yeah. Yeah, that one's
fairly famous. Oh yeah, huge. Like it's one of
those ones that you point at for like Vatican
corruption. Yes. Common. And again, that's the
coolest notes of that. Just because we're just
going to briefly touch on some of these connections
to Opus Dei in this. A more recent conspiracy
-turned -investigation involves Spain's Banco
Popular. Yes, another bank. For weird reasons.
Journalist Gareth Gore, who just released a massive
book on this just in this last year, 2024 -2025,
titled Opus, The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking,
and Right -Wing Conspiracy Inside the Catholic
Church. argues that Opus Dei didn't just have
members in the bank, they hijacked it. It's a
massive investigative expose that treats Opus
Dei more like a corporate political machine than
a purely religious organization. Gore details
how billions of dollars were siphoned from Banco
Popular to fund Opus Dei's expansion. He describes
a brazen case of corporate pillaging where men
sworn to poverty and celibacy manipulated one
of the world's largest banks to build a global
real estate and power empire. Oh, I thought you
were going to say for sex parties. That would
have made the truest answer. Wow, that would
just come full circle. Gore tracks the flow of
money from one of Spain's largest bank collapses
directly into Opus Dei's coffers? Yeah, bank
accounts, basically. Oh, okay. I'm glad you knew
that. He also draws a direct line between the
Catholic Information Center in D .C., which is
an Opus Dei hub, and the Architects of Project
2025. To summarize, the theory is that they use
the bank as a personal ATM to fund their global
expansion and build massive of luxurious shrines
using a web of shell companies to hide the paper
trail. And that is where I'm going to leave it
for this week. And we're going to pick back up
next week and finish off probably just like a
brief summary of the controversies that are kind
of surrounding Opus Dei. I got some good ones
for you. What do you think so far? What do you
know of Opus Dei? Other than J .D. Vance. It
actually, weirdly, when you were talking about
it, it reminded me that, have you ever listened
to the Majority Report? It's a very prominent
left -wing news source on YouTube and podcasts.
I don't know that I have. I've sent you a few
links before. It's Sam Seder. They had an interview
about a year ago talking specifically about the
Opus Dei for about an hour. And did you learn
anything? I learned a bit. That's where I remember
that J .D. Vance's Opus Dei. Right. And there's
more in there, but I think it's going to be like,
oh yeah, as we get going with it, as opposed
to me being able to spout facts about it. Okay.
I was just wondering where you were on it. I
went into this. I did know. I did know that they
have a really big Washington, D .C. sect. Like,
it's actually very weird how much they're involved
in U .S. politics. Yeah, we are going to talk
about that. And it's like, when you think Opus
Dei, think people in power. I really found that
that one statement that I made in the episode
that they want to be the best lawyer, architect,
whatever. And they want to be, they want to.
either know that person in power or they want
to be that person in power. I don't think they
want to be the best. I think they want the power
of being the best and most connected. Yeah, no,
that's true. Yeah, it's weirdly like there's
been a weird movement in the U .S. with Tradcaths,
traditional Catholic living, which has kind of
hijacked some of the younger population in the
U .S. to move to Catholicism and by extension
to Opus Dei. Interesting. So, yeah, it's finding
a weird resurgence in the U .S. with younger
people. I find that weird. I haven't heard about
that. Young men. And young men, eh? Yeah, just
they have really cult -like tactics for recruitment.
And we're going to see some other concerning
things going on. But yeah, I mean, I went into
this not knowing a whole lot about Opus Dei.
I didn't know if it was a cult. I didn't know
if it was a secret society. It kind of does operate.
I mean, it's not operating as a secret society,
I guess. But I could see how it... I can see
how it's positioned itself that way, kind of.
It's kind of working behind the scenes, but within
positions of power. So I was a little bit shocked
to see that it's not really much of anything,
kind of. But it's also all -powerful in the right
hand of Pope Leo, yeah. Yeah, right? I was surprised
at how little, like, it's not a religion. It's
like a sect, kind of, of a religion. I don't
know, that was... kind of confusing to me yeah
it's not its own cult like it's a cult within
a cult yeah exactly that's exactly how i would
describe it but yeah i think i got a good episode
for you next week so you better come back that
is yeah i think and i don't think there'll be
any pretzels mostly because i'm out of pretzels
at this point so if that entices you back anyhow
i have been taylor here with chelsea we are journey
to the fringe thank you all for listening we'll
see you next week Thank you for listening to
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