WEBVTT 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.599 from the unexplained to the mundane. Come join 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:12.140 us on a Journey to the Fringe. Hello and welcome 00:00:12.140 --> 00:00:15.380 to Journey to the Fringe. We're following up 00:00:15.380 --> 00:00:18.839 on our Uri Geller saga. When we left off the 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:22.320 wee lad with the exotic accent, he was living 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.039 high on the world, having failed miserably on 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:29.210 Johnny Carson, and stumbled upon all... Talk 00:00:29.210 --> 00:00:31.890 shows actually wanted him still, and succeeding 00:00:31.890 --> 00:00:35.210 very well at the SRI studies. So Chelsea, this 00:00:35.210 --> 00:00:37.990 is where the episode picks up. He's sitting high 00:00:37.990 --> 00:00:40.990 on life, Project Stargate's looking at him because 00:00:40.990 --> 00:00:44.950 he did quite well. at the SRI studies and they 00:00:44.950 --> 00:00:47.070 said, Hey, Ray Hyman, you need to come look at 00:00:47.070 --> 00:00:49.890 this guy right off the bat. There are a lot of 00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:53.590 critics of how put off and why do I always forget 00:00:53.590 --> 00:00:56.030 the other guy's name? Russell Targ, Billy Meyer, 00:00:56.429 --> 00:01:01.810 Billy Meyer study. They were too big. I'm skeptical 00:01:01.810 --> 00:01:04.549 of their study too. I'm gonna be honest. Critics 00:01:04.549 --> 00:01:06.670 of this experiment included many people, but 00:01:06.670 --> 00:01:08.049 the first ones we're gonna talk about are David 00:01:08.049 --> 00:01:10.790 Marks and Richard Kamen, who published a description 00:01:10.790 --> 00:01:13.569 how Geller could have cheated in the informal 00:01:13.569 --> 00:01:15.590 test of his so -called psychic powers. Their 00:01:15.590 --> 00:01:18.709 1978 article in Nature and 1980 book The Psychology 00:01:18.709 --> 00:01:21.390 of a Psychic, they described how a normal explanation 00:01:21.390 --> 00:01:23.769 was possible for Geller's alleged psychic powers. 00:01:24.069 --> 00:01:26.790 Marks and Kamen found evidence that while at 00:01:26.790 --> 00:01:29.390 SRI, Geller was allowed to peek through a hole 00:01:29.390 --> 00:01:32.670 in the lab - wall separating him from the drawings 00:01:32.670 --> 00:01:36.450 he was being invited to reproduce. What? These 00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:39.510 drawings were placed on a wall opposite the people, 00:01:39.629 --> 00:01:42.269 which the investigators, Tark, and Pudoff had 00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:45.790 stuffed with cotton gauze. In addition to this 00:01:45.790 --> 00:01:48.489 error, the investigators had also allowed Geller 00:01:48.489 --> 00:01:51.569 access to a two -way intercom, enabling him to 00:01:51.569 --> 00:01:54.510 listen to the investigators' conversation during 00:01:54.510 --> 00:01:56.870 the time when they were choosing and or displaying 00:01:56.870 --> 00:02:13.240 the target drawings. These basic errors Marks, 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:15.580 after evaluating the experiments, wrote that 00:02:15.580 --> 00:02:18.060 none of Geller's paranormal claims have been 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:20.599 demonstrated in scientifically controlled conditions, 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:23.340 concluding that Geller has no psychic ability 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:26.620 whatsoever. However, he did believe him to have 00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:29.639 a very clear well -practiced magic act. Marx 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.520 and Kamen tested Geller's ability to mentally 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.080 repair watches and found that, quote, many supposedly 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.560 broken watches had merely been stuffed by gummy 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:38.900 oil and simply holding them in his hand would 00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:41.280 warm the oil enough to soften it and allow watches 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.539 to return to ticking. Now to get to Reheimann. 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.840 This is how Ray Hyman got involved in the skeptic 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:49.460 movement, which is how he ends up being put in 00:02:49.460 --> 00:02:52.099 charge of this question of Yuri Geller. It was 00:02:52.099 --> 00:02:56.120 by one person alone, Alice Cooper. James Randi, 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.219 whose name came up early with Johnny Carson, 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.479 we're gonna talk about him later, was touring 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.500 with Alice Cooper as part of a stage show, and 00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:06.460 Alice Cooper asked James Randi to invite Hyman 00:03:06.460 --> 00:03:09.400 to a show in order to ask his advice about the 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.080 audience. While there, quote, Randi pulled me 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:14.060 aside and said, really ought to do something 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:17.240 about this orieller business. Let's form an organization 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:21.560 called the SIR, the Sanity in Research. And in 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:25.159 1972, he joined with Martin Gardner and they 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.439 had their first meeting and the three of them 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.240 felt they had no administration experience. Quote, 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.800 we just had good ideas, end quote. And we're 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:35.740 soon joined by Marcello Truzi, who provided structure 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:38.080 for the group. Truzi involved Paul Kurtz and 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:41.979 then they formed the CSICOP in 1976. In an interview 00:03:41.979 --> 00:03:45.330 in 2009 with Derek Colandano for the Skepticality 00:03:45.330 --> 00:03:47.930 podcast, Hyman was asked his opinion of the modern 00:03:47.930 --> 00:03:50.270 skeptical movement. Sorry, Uri Geller's coming. 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:52.509 I just want to set up Ray Hyman, because he is 00:03:52.509 --> 00:03:55.789 a cool guy. I was almost gonna say, do we need 00:03:55.789 --> 00:03:57.669 like, what would we call it, like, bad boys? 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:01.770 Anti -Abyssal episodes? Yeah. Anti -asshole, 00:04:01.770 --> 00:04:05.530 like, bad boys of the skeptic societies. I'm 00:04:05.530 --> 00:04:07.610 interested in his work. I think that'd be really 00:04:07.610 --> 00:04:10.169 cool. Not that I'm, like, pro -skeptic, because 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:13.509 I love fleets of fancy. The right skeptic, yeah. 00:04:13.870 --> 00:04:16.250 Not one who wants to shit over everything. I 00:04:16.250 --> 00:04:18.829 want one who wants to see the real shit. Yeah, 00:04:19.170 --> 00:04:22.610 like us like I want to believe in Serpo, but 00:04:22.610 --> 00:04:25.709 I just don't because I'm familiar with Richard 00:04:25.709 --> 00:04:28.889 Doty I still like it, but I'm not gonna shoot 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:31.810 down everything like I do want to hear more about 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:35.769 this You know what I mean? Yeah, so anyhow Hyman 00:04:35.769 --> 00:04:38.230 responded that skeptics need to have goals and 00:04:38.230 --> 00:04:40.449 a way to measure them They need to become a resource 00:04:40.449 --> 00:04:42.910 for the public and focus on educating journalists 00:04:42.910 --> 00:04:45.839 and teachers quote that way we will get more 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.160 Bing for our buck," end quote. On the current 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:50.040 state of the skeptical movement, Hyman stated, 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:52.399 quote, the media unfortunately has made it so 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.040 we have many more believers, end quote. Less 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.199 science teachers in the classrooms, major newspapers 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.839 are firing their science writing staff, 24 -hour 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:01.939 news channels are trying to fill all that time 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:04.300 and compete with Fox News, quote, things aren't 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:07.449 good. That was 2009. Back to where we were, Hyman 00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:09.730 was asked by DARPA to investigate Uri Geller 00:05:09.730 --> 00:05:12.089 and then Hyman was intrigued by the story and 00:05:12.089 --> 00:05:14.589 Chelsea, I think this story came up in the Edgar 00:05:14.589 --> 00:05:17.449 Mitchell story where Uri Geller had been around 00:05:17.449 --> 00:05:20.410 NASA and he had taken a ring and he mentally 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.050 manipulated it so it was in an S shape. I don't 00:05:23.050 --> 00:05:25.370 remember it. Okay, that's fine. That's as much 00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:27.329 as we need to know. Basically, he had broken 00:05:27.329 --> 00:05:30.610 a ring like with his mind. What a dick. Hyman 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:32.370 had heard the story and he's like, I need to 00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:34.670 look into it. Uri Geller had set it on a table 00:05:34.670 --> 00:05:36.620 and without touching it, the ring stood on end, 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.819 broke in half, and formed itself into an S -shape. 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:42.660 Upon questioning all the scientists at the lab, 00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:44.839 Hyman discovered that no one had actually seen 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:48.100 this happen. but had heard stories from others 00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:50.839 that it had happened. Weird how these stories 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.519 come up, Chelsea, about all these things happening 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.120 around Uri Geller, but it's not attributed to 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.100 him, it's people are talking about it. Yeah, 00:05:58.100 --> 00:06:00.759 that's how people gossip. That's just like human 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.220 nature. You ever play - But I feel that's apt 00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:05.139 from how you finished off the end of the last 00:06:05.139 --> 00:06:07.040 episode, how people are saying these things. 00:06:07.180 --> 00:06:09.839 Oh yeah, George and Uri saying that watches just 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.160 stop - what? Yeah, true. The watches just stop 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.160 working if you need a reminder. There's no way 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.139 that - happened to a ring. I've seen rings and 00:06:18.139 --> 00:06:20.920 they don't do that. Hymen continued to question 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:22.920 the scientists and discover that no one had ever 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.300 seen Geller bend anything without touching it. 00:06:25.459 --> 00:06:27.720 In fact, quote, Geller was allowed to take the 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.139 object into the bathroom and then come back with 00:06:30.139 --> 00:06:33.160 the bent object they took his word for it. End 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:38.379 quote. Kate, I do think he has powers. If you 00:06:38.379 --> 00:06:41.860 give me four hours and a spoon and nobody around 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:44.560 for accountability, I have powers too, dammit. 00:06:44.889 --> 00:06:49.230 Like how how is that not powerful to be able 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:52.769 to like have all manipulate people? Yeah, this 00:06:52.769 --> 00:06:56.560 is insane Then quote, the parapsychologist also 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.639 sent to investigate saw a psychic and I reported 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.639 back that I saw a charismatic fraud. End quote. 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:05.579 So Hyman reports back to the government that 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:08.500 Geller was a complete fraud and as a consequence 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:11.259 Targ and Putoff lost their government contract. 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.800 The result is they go on a publicity tour. All 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.339 of them. Geller, Targ and Putoff to seek private 00:07:16.339 --> 00:07:18.600 funding for further research work on Geller. 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:20.939 I love that. There's a happy ending to that. 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.379 And he doesn't actually get involved with Project 00:07:23.379 --> 00:07:25.970 Stargate. Look, that's where it gets cut off. 00:07:26.089 --> 00:07:28.769 Did we know that? We did Project Stargate. Yeah, 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:31.430 I know! I can't remember. We did it a while ago. 00:07:31.569 --> 00:07:33.449 He doesn't actually end up getting involved with 00:07:33.449 --> 00:07:35.009 it. He's just low to those names that's really 00:07:35.009 --> 00:07:37.730 attached to it. Maybe we knew that, but I'm glad 00:07:37.730 --> 00:07:39.850 that we're going over it more thoroughly now. 00:07:40.009 --> 00:07:42.850 And in an encyclopedia of claims, frauds, and 00:07:42.850 --> 00:07:44.769 hoaxes of the occult and supernatural, James 00:07:44.769 --> 00:07:47.329 Randi writes, quote, How put off in Russell Targ, 00:07:47.389 --> 00:07:49.810 who studied Mr. Geller at the Stanford Research 00:07:49.810 --> 00:07:52.310 Institute, were aware in one instance at least 00:07:52.310 --> 00:07:54.470 that they were being shown a magician's trick 00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:57.629 by Geller. Their protocol for this series investigation 00:07:57.629 --> 00:07:59.629 of the powers claimed by Geller were described 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:05.439 by Ray Hyman as Sorry, continue on because that's 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:06.939 a quote within a quote. Critics have pointed 00:08:06.939 --> 00:08:09.519 out that both Putoff and Targ were already believers 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:12.360 in paranormal powers and Geller was not adequately 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.339 searched before the experiments. Psychologist 00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:18.019 C .E .M. Hansel and skeptic Paul Kurtz have noted 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:19.939 that the experiments were poorly designed and 00:08:19.939 --> 00:08:23.279 open trickery. This is amazing on so many levels. 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:26.079 Do you think that Uri Geller could exist today? 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.620 Yes, he still does. I mean, like for him to have 00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:33.649 come to being during this day. Yes. Because RFK 00:08:33.649 --> 00:08:36.450 Jr. exists. That's true. Second point I have 00:08:36.450 --> 00:08:39.190 to make is I just pulled up this book because 00:08:39.190 --> 00:08:41.870 this book sounds fantastic. Is there a picture 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:44.769 of James Randi on there? Wow, those eyebrows. 00:08:45.250 --> 00:08:48.330 Oh, that's James Randi, isn't it? Oh yeah. He 00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:52.110 is a wizard. Yep, those are wizard eyebrows for 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:55.029 sure. Don't take that picture away because we're 00:08:55.029 --> 00:08:56.950 about to talk about James Randi now. Good, I 00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:59.610 want to look at him in the eye like this. James 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:01.909 Randi begins his career as a magician under the 00:09:01.909 --> 00:09:04.509 stage name The Amazing Randi, and later chose 00:09:04.509 --> 00:09:07.629 to devote most of his time to investigating paranormal, 00:09:07.870 --> 00:09:14.409 occult, and supernatural claims. But during Alice 00:09:14.409 --> 00:09:18.470 Cooper's 1973 -74 billion dollar babies tour, 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:21.789 Randi performed on stage as a mad dentist and 00:09:21.789 --> 00:09:24.509 as Alice Cooper's executioner. He also built 00:09:24.509 --> 00:09:27.509 several of the stage props, including the guillotine. 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.299 And that's where Everybody met each other for 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:35.820 the debunkers group Alice Cooper on James Randy's 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:38.919 death had this quote I am so proud to say that 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.820 for a brief time the greatest of them all the 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:44.360 Amazing Randy was part of our traveling troupe. 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.899 He was our illusion guru and taught me everything 00:09:46.899 --> 00:09:49.279 I know about how magic could meet rock and roll 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.039 his genius helped the billion dollar babies show 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:54.259 become the spectacle No one had ever seen he 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:57.440 was rock and roll's Gandalf end quote. I love 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.990 this It just keeps getting better. I want to 00:10:00.990 --> 00:10:03.610 read this book. James Randi out at everybody 00:10:03.610 --> 00:10:06.549 is Geller's biggest opponent. He claims once 00:10:06.549 --> 00:10:09.049 that Geller was a fraud who took advantage of 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:11.129 helpless people. This seemed to be true according 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:13.309 to Ori's first autobiography where he stated 00:10:13.309 --> 00:10:15.289 that sometimes he would dupe the audience to 00:10:15.289 --> 00:10:17.250 think that he knew their vehicles plates when 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:19.710 it was his manager who had earlier provided them 00:10:19.710 --> 00:10:22.370 to him. Randy even made a habit of performing 00:10:22.370 --> 00:10:24.909 Gellar's so -called paranormal displays on stage 00:10:24.909 --> 00:10:26.629 to prove that they were all an illusion. Like 00:10:26.629 --> 00:10:29.429 he would word for word redo a magic show just 00:10:29.429 --> 00:10:32.470 to show that this was not magic. I can't love 00:10:32.470 --> 00:10:35.570 this. This guy just like wants to see his downfall. 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:38.909 And this is hilarious. So Randy would actually 00:10:38.909 --> 00:10:41.950 get accused of having psychic powers to perform 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:44.009 acts such as the spoon bedding. And according 00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:46.450 to James Alcock, at a meeting where Randy was 00:10:46.450 --> 00:10:48.649 duplicating the performance of Ory Gellar, a 00:10:48.649 --> 00:10:50.809 professor from The University of Buffalo shouted 00:10:50.809 --> 00:10:54.169 out that Randy was a fraud Randy said yes indeed. 00:10:54.169 --> 00:10:56.470 I'm a trickster. I'm a cheat I'm a charlatan. 00:10:56.509 --> 00:10:58.610 That's what I do for a living everything I've 00:10:58.610 --> 00:11:01.750 done here was for trickery And the professor 00:11:01.750 --> 00:11:04.389 shouts back, quote, that's not what I mean. You're 00:11:04.389 --> 00:11:06.070 a fraud because you're pretending to do these 00:11:06.070 --> 00:11:08.250 things through trickery. But you're actually 00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:11.529 using psychic powers and misleading us by not 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:14.929 admitting it. End quote. I love the heavy use 00:11:14.929 --> 00:11:18.110 of the word trickery. A similar event involved 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:20.909 Senator Clare Bourne Pell, a confirmed believer 00:11:20.909 --> 00:11:23.230 in psychic phenomenon, where Randy personally 00:11:23.230 --> 00:11:25.549 demonstrated to Pell that he could reveal by 00:11:25.549 --> 00:11:27.789 simple trickery a concealed drawing that had 00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:30.580 been secretly made by the senator. Hell refused 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:32.460 to believe that it was a trick, saying quote, 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.379 I think Randy may be a psychic and doesn't realize 00:11:35.379 --> 00:11:39.330 it. Randy consistently denied having any paranormal 00:11:39.330 --> 00:11:42.669 powers or abilities. And according to Higginbotham, 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:45.309 this result caused Randy to realize that much 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:47.629 more must be done to stop Geller and those like 00:11:47.629 --> 00:11:50.830 him. So in 1976, Randy approached Ray Hyman, 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:53.029 a psychologist who had observed the tests of 00:11:53.029 --> 00:11:55.110 Geller's abilities at Stanford and thought them 00:11:55.110 --> 00:11:56.809 to be a slip shot, and suggested that they create 00:11:56.809 --> 00:11:58.850 an organization to combat pseudoscience, which 00:11:58.850 --> 00:12:00.990 we talked about, the Committee for Scientific 00:12:00.990 --> 00:12:04.049 Investigations of Claims of Paranormal, CSICOP. 00:12:04.269 --> 00:12:06.480 And using donations and sales of their magazine, 00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:09.539 The Skeptical Enquirer, they and secular humanist 00:12:09.539 --> 00:12:12.179 philosopher Paul Kurtz took seats on the executive 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:15.019 board and they also included Isaac Asimov and 00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:18.539 Carl Sagan as members of the board. And Randy 00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:22.139 traveled the world on behalf of CSICOP, becoming 00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:25.399 its public face according to Hyman, the face 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.980 of the skeptical movement. I love James Randy. 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:32.100 What a cool guy. I know. I really like him. I 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:34.679 feel like he deserves his own episode. No kidding. 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:38.019 Yeah, it turns out it's an Urgellar episode and 00:12:38.019 --> 00:12:40.759 again We have so many more people like you're 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.399 not expecting to come up, but they are I love 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:45.539 him and Chelsea Do you know who was working at 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:49.539 SRI at the time of Urgellar being there? Yes? 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:51.759 You don't, so I should just tell you. It's Jacques 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.720 Vallée. Oh! So weirdly enough, he's around and 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.220 Uri Geller's there. Vallée does not endorse Geller's 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:01.019 claims, but he did not dismiss them either. He 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:03.559 instead treats Geller as a data point within 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:06.360 a broader pattern of anomalous cognition, and 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.820 Vallée notes, "...describe Geller as a complex 00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:12.019 subject whose performance were difficult to categorize, 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.539 and he acknowledged that some of the SRI results 00:13:14.539 --> 00:13:17.120 were ambiguous and that the experimental conditions 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.070 were not always I - deal, but he also noted that 00:13:20.070 --> 00:13:21.970 certain sessions produced outcomes that were 00:13:21.970 --> 00:13:25.090 not easily explained by conventional means. Velay's 00:13:25.090 --> 00:13:27.850 interest in Geller was less about spoon -bending 00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:29.730 itself and more about what Geller represented, 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:32.049 the possible overlap between psychic phenomena 00:13:32.049 --> 00:13:34.490 and altered states of consciousness. That was 00:13:34.490 --> 00:13:36.809 something. Are you making this whole thing up? 00:13:37.070 --> 00:13:40.200 You would think! It's just gonna keep getting 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.299 weirder because Chelsea, we're gonna talk about 00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:45.059 he's on top of the world, he got onto all the 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:48.620 talk shows, he had that SRI study that is absolutely 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:50.860 destroyed, but what do you think he does from 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:53.830 here? I'm gonna stop you right there. He becomes 00:13:53.830 --> 00:13:57.190 a mineral dowser. But why? After the 70s in the 00:13:57.190 --> 00:13:59.970 80s, he shifts his work from the televised and 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.110 towards private consulting and he describes himself 00:14:02.110 --> 00:14:05.529 as a mineral dowser. He claims he's able to locate 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:08.750 oil, gold, and other resources including diamonds 00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:11.769 in the ground. According to his own account, 00:14:12.029 --> 00:14:14.909 he charges a standard fee of 1 million pounds 00:14:14.909 --> 00:14:19.230 during this time. What? In 1986, an Australian 00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:21.929 skeptic reports that the mining company Xanax 00:14:21.929 --> 00:14:25.269 paid Geller $250 ,000 and granted him an option 00:14:25.269 --> 00:14:29.450 for 1 ,250 ,000 shares at 20 cents each. The 00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:32.190 contract was tied specifically to the identification 00:14:32.190 --> 00:14:34.870 of a potential diamond deposit, but the place 00:14:34.870 --> 00:14:38.169 he identified never finds a single fucking diamond. 00:14:38.529 --> 00:14:40.690 And he still got paid. I apparently still got 00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:42.210 paid. I don't know if he got to take advantage 00:14:42.210 --> 00:14:44.929 of the stock option. What the fuck? But that's 00:14:44.929 --> 00:14:46.740 where he actually ends up making like all his 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.460 money apparently because i can't find much about 00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:52.019 it but he says it too makes all his money in 00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:54.320 mineral dousing during this time good for him 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.620 Is it? I mean, yeah, he's taken it from pretty 00:14:56.620 --> 00:15:00.559 terrible people, but I don't know. I don't know, 00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:03.139 but he seems doing pretty good for himself for 00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:05.600 this. I don't know. He says he performed this 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.840 for many mining and oil companies over this time, 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:09.519 and he's been way described as remote sensing 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.759 or map dousing rather than traditional tools. 00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:13.919 He claims he can detect underground structures 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.940 by holding a pendulum over geological maps or 00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:19.860 by focusing on areas mentally. None of these 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.799 results are ever independently verified. Funny 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.299 enough, you can I don't know if it's on Amazon, 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.279 but you can finally get a regular mineral dousing 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.919 set that you can buy yourself. Oh, I'm not even 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.259 interested. If you ever want to get into it. 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:38.399 And during this time, he expands his consulting 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.379 into other categories and into other sectors. 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.860 He worked with Readings FC. Oh, fuck, sorry. 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:47.840 This is where it gets into sports. So he works 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.240 with a football club called Reading, and he says, 00:15:50.419 --> 00:15:52.320 we're going to get positive energy into your 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.659 group to avoid being sent down to the lower level. 00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:57.580 So he places crystals behind the goals at Exeter 00:15:57.580 --> 00:16:01.200 City before a critical match. That Reader FC 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.639 ends up losing 5 -1. He advises cyclist Bruce 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.529 Burrisford. on mental preparation for speed record 00:16:07.529 --> 00:16:09.929 attempts. Geller occasionally offered assistance 00:16:09.929 --> 00:16:12.470 in criminal investigations. One of his cases, 00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:14.549 he predicts that a kidnapped woman would be found 00:16:14.549 --> 00:16:17.870 alive. She is never located. What? How was he? 00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:20.350 Despite the lack of confirmed success, Geller 00:16:20.350 --> 00:16:23.090 continues to work the services for corporations 00:16:23.090 --> 00:16:25.889 and private clients. He described controversy 00:16:25.889 --> 00:16:28.970 as beneficial to his career, maintains that skepticism 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:32.129 increases his demand for his abilities. So is 00:16:32.129 --> 00:16:35.220 it just the legend around him? By this point? 00:16:35.419 --> 00:16:37.820 Like, how is this happening? I don't know, because 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:40.559 failing seems to help him. Legends shouldn't 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.340 be helped by that. I don't feel like I've heard 00:16:43.340 --> 00:16:46.179 a success of his. I'm not even gonna let you 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:49.120 guess what happens here in the year 2000. Okay. 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.820 He sues Nintendo. Do you know why? I remember 00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:55.820 this. I can't remember why. There's a Pokemon 00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:58.139 that he thinks kind of looks like him. Oh, yeah. 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:01.480 Named Kadavra, because it's bending a spoon. 00:17:01.899 --> 00:17:04.990 Yep. I remember this. He says this was an unauthorized 00:17:04.990 --> 00:17:07.529 use of his name and spoon bending persona, and 00:17:07.529 --> 00:17:09.809 he argues the character's design, which included 00:17:09.809 --> 00:17:11.970 a bent spoon and psychic abilities, damaged his 00:17:11.970 --> 00:17:14.710 reputation. Geller sought substantial damage 00:17:14.710 --> 00:17:17.170 and attempted to block the character's use in 00:17:17.170 --> 00:17:20.329 trading card and merchandise. And for 20 years, 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:22.890 Kadabra is not allowed in the trading card game. 00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:26.329 What? He won? No, the lawsuit's unsuccessful. 00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:29.170 But they voluntarily just stopped printing this 00:17:29.170 --> 00:17:31.049 card because they're like, who fucking cares? 00:17:31.329 --> 00:17:35.390 But you know what? It is who cares because it 00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:37.930 probably just makes it more valuable because 00:17:37.930 --> 00:17:39.910 they stopped printing it. That's probably what 00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:41.769 Nintendo thought. Like, if we can't print this, 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:44.529 these things are worth so much. Yeah. I don't 00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:48.609 know why in 2020, he decided that like, no, you 00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:50.809 can just print them. So he'd like that's the 00:17:50.809 --> 00:17:55.410 lawsuit's over in 2020. And this is the last 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:57.150 thing we're going to talk about in this episode, 00:17:57.430 --> 00:18:01.049 Chelsea. In 2009, he buys an island off the coast 00:18:01.049 --> 00:18:04.569 of Scotland. And by off the coast, I mean like 00:18:04.569 --> 00:18:07.369 100 meters off the coast of Scotland. It's called 00:18:07.369 --> 00:18:10.789 the Isle of Lamb. It is uninhabited. It is 100 00:18:10.789 --> 00:18:13.450 meters by 50 meters. And Chelsea, I want you 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:15.630 to just Google Lamb Island and tell me what you 00:18:15.630 --> 00:18:17.730 see. What the fuck is that? That's a dock. Is 00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:20.769 that not a dock? Lamb Island, Scotland. It does 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:23.779 not even have a dock. Oh, that's a shitty island. 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:27.259 Yeah, you can't live on it. Is this? No, this 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.660 is Isle of Ewe. Oh, here, I will share my screen, 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:34.680 Chelsea. There's one sheep on Isle of Ewe. Lamb 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:39.559 Island is located right here. So Google Maps. 00:18:39.619 --> 00:18:43.480 Here's Edinburgh. Here's Glasgow. Here is the 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:49.049 Isle of Lamb. south dog this one this one here 00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:52.710 oh this is the island he bought that's a real 00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:54.930 shitty island how big you can't live on this 00:18:54.930 --> 00:18:57.410 island very big no nobody can live on this island 00:18:57.410 --> 00:19:01.509 it's 100 meters long nope it's not that big there's 00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:04.569 not even a tree he apparently's been to it but 00:19:04.569 --> 00:19:06.470 like i don't know how you could actually like 00:19:06.470 --> 00:19:09.410 even dock to do that What would you do on that 00:19:09.410 --> 00:19:11.329 island? Oh man, Chelsea, I'm just gonna read 00:19:11.329 --> 00:19:13.569 this part and then I'm gonna read his story on 00:19:13.569 --> 00:19:17.349 his island, on his website. He buys in 2009, 00:19:17.849 --> 00:19:20.029 Lamb Island, off the eastern coast of Scotland, 00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:22.470 and they say it's previously known for its witch 00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.650 trials. It can't be. You can't do witch trials 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:28.170 on that island. No, just looking at it, no way. 00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:30.690 Is this him saying that or is this actually Doug? 00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.309 This is off of Wikipedia, so probably him saying 00:19:33.309 --> 00:19:35.730 it. And apparently beaches that Robert Louis 00:19:35.730 --> 00:19:38.200 Stevenson is said to have described in his novel 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.059 Treasure Island. No, I don't believe it. I realize 00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:42.220 it's still staring my screen, but like again, 00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:44.460 there's no beaches on this island. No, I don't 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:46.720 believe this. This is made up. Furry Geller's 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.819 making it up. Why would he do such a thing? Geller 00:19:49.819 --> 00:19:52.079 claims that buried on the island is Egyptian 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.279 treasure brought there by Skoda, the mythological 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.099 half -sister of Tutankhamun in Irish mythology 00:19:58.099 --> 00:20:00.420 3 ,500 years ago, and he claims that he will 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:02.640 find the treasure there through dousing. Geller 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.980 also claimed to have strengthened the mystical 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:07.140 powers of the island by burying in a crystal 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:11.400 orb once belonging to Albert Einstein. In 2022, 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:13.940 Geller sought to declare Lamb as the Republic 00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:16.920 of Lamb, a micronation. this is fucking made 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:21.599 up oh boy has he done that like so hard okay 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:23.880 can i just read you the description on google 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.220 map yeah go ahead uninhabited offshore island 00:20:27.220 --> 00:20:30.359 flanked by several smaller islands reachable 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.640 by boat there's reviews oh yeah what's the one 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.009 star Now owned by Uri Geller, who wants to make 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:39.589 it an independent country and part of the EU 00:20:39.589 --> 00:20:42.829 lol, well buddy it's part of the UK. Additionally, 00:20:43.069 --> 00:20:46.289 Sturgeon and her nasty party SNP followers will 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:50.190 never let you take it from her clutches. That 00:20:50.190 --> 00:20:53.049 was nice. Oh, this guy has a five -star review. 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:56.430 Colin Jones says, had a mind -bending experience 00:20:56.430 --> 00:21:01.970 here or maybe it was a spoon. And yeah, like 00:21:01.970 --> 00:21:04.650 that's what he's been up to. There's a origeller 00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:08.069 museum which he owns in Tel Aviv which you can 00:21:08.069 --> 00:21:10.529 go visit but like outside of that those are all 00:21:10.529 --> 00:21:12.990 the things he's got going on and in the next 00:21:12.990 --> 00:21:15.190 episode we're gonna talk about like all the people 00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:17.869 he's associated with and all the predictions 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:20.150 he's making because apparently he's also a psychic 00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:23.289 which hasn't come up until this point. I'm having 00:21:23.289 --> 00:21:25.869 troubles wrapping my head about around what the 00:21:25.869 --> 00:21:28.049 fuck is going on with this guy and why is he 00:21:28.049 --> 00:21:30.589 who he is. Yeah, and I don't know if I'm gonna 00:21:30.589 --> 00:21:33.910 make it make more sense later on either Chelsea 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:36.609 I can absolutely understand how you're not gonna 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:39.130 bring any logic to this you know what this is 00:21:39.130 --> 00:21:42.390 pretty standard for stuff like this in this community 00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:46.069 it seems like the legend is preceding him somehow 00:21:46.069 --> 00:21:49.630 and with each fail the legend becomes stronger 00:21:49.630 --> 00:21:54.450 and people become more enthralled with him maybe 00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.410 this is super crazy he doesn't even seem to be 00:21:57.410 --> 00:22:00.359 putting out anything good no I I can't think 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.960 of one thing that he's actually done where you'd 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.900 say like, oh yeah, this contributed to the community 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.740 or like moved anything forward was even like 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:11.079 something tangible to work with. It's not like 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.039 he's writing books or like doing anything other 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.640 than just saying that he can bend spoons. Well, 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.660 I shouldn't say I'm pretty sure during this time 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:23.319 he is writing books as well, but nothing important. 00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:26.519 No, it doesn't seem like it's so, so weird. I 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.720 don't know. I can't wrap my head around it. Because 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.259 yeah, on his website itself he has a page called 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:33.880 Books. I can't tell if he's written these books 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.059 or they're books about him, but there's a ton 00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.160 of books in there. Or books he recommends, maybe. 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.039 Mmm, could be. But yeah, it's hard to say. That's 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:43.819 enough for this episode. I have been Taylor, 00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:45.759 here with Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.380 Thank you all for listening. I'll see you next 00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:51.900 week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:54.259 to the Fringe. If you have liked what you have 00:22:54.259 --> 00:22:58.220 listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or 00:22:58.220 --> 00:23:00.990 follow, depending on what. venue you are listening 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:03.849 to us through. Also, please, if possible, leave 00:23:03.849 --> 00:23:07.009 a five -star review, as that really helps us 00:23:07.009 --> 00:23:09.609 in the algorithms. Should you wish to interact 00:23:09.609 --> 00:23:12.369 with us, please check us out on your social media 00:23:12.369 --> 00:23:15.369 of choice. I bet you we are there. And if you 00:23:15.369 --> 00:23:17.470 really want to communicate with us and give us 00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:19.910 ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're 00:23:19.910 --> 00:23:22.150 wrong and terrible, either way, please send us 00:23:22.150 --> 00:23:26.049 an email at journeytothefringe at gmail .com. 00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:28.130 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.