00:00:00 We did the shaw go bikes today and went around downtown protest for Cuba and then I came home and I looked
yeah, it's super hard finding an actual neutral Source on that. But, yeah, there's protest in Cuba over shortages and certain things whether or not, it's the government's fault in question was actually done quite well for itself throughout covid and the fact that there's a fairly significant embargo against it. But with the US being one of the closest country to it, and they actually did develop their own vaccine to covid-19 what's going on.
And I had no idea so we could talk about that, but...
I don't know. Avoid the political ones for a while,
then I have nothing. Okay.
I can add the part of the shortages that they're facing right now is Trump before he left office.
00:01:00 he Extended and created more sanctions that are limited for what they can Import in Cuba. One of those things are syringes. So they have a covid, vaccine. They have a shortage of syringes. They can't actually get it in the people with medicine to that. They were like...
so there's this whole thing that I saw it because tourism was down tourism store number Wednesday because of the source of the income. They would then import food. So those food shortages and the prices are skyrocketing. So, they're right it or not riding. They're protesting. A lot of people are protesting Freedom against the one, the Communist. Yeah. That's what I found out that last hit that Trump did to them was really significant right before he left office. But Biden has a reversed any of it. So we're still at, that's boss.
00:01:59 I do, but yeah, Cuba over the last four years, has had a GDP, drop of about 70% due to the embargoes into a small little islands like that. Like, it's so dependent on other countries with highest GDP in all of Latin America for a place that has had an embargo against the 1960s is pretty significant and I had no idea that the history of it was because Russia with Adele Fidel Castro with Russia, and that's what was little too cold for that. That's the thing and then Russia was trading with them and Russia, cut off ties with them. And so then like it just like one down here is fairly impressive on their part. But yeah.
00:02:59 Castro. It was Batista that was in power. I always remember that cuz it was a joke on The Simpsons Batista. He was a very pro-american trade person. There were a ton of casinos. Are there was a very improper slower class which Fidel was able to rally and overthrow them your number. The trillions play. He's in jail. What's the space movie was Groot? Marvel Guardians of Galaxy because then the trillion-dollar bill episode of The Simpsons were there flying over there? And mr. Burns says. So you say Batista is gone. I had no idea and I don't have to give a high-profile in the 60s. Well, that went right over my head. Okay.
00:03:59 He says, other not so bad if they named The District after me in San Francisco. And then somebody whispered into his ear and he says, "it's full of what?"
that's a good episode. I haven't seen it in so long. Do I need to rewatch? You have my Disney, don't you?
I'm going to an article, I was reading that Chelsea. Are you aware of the Moon?
00:04:28 Depends on which way you were talking about
our moon I, I like astronomy. It's fun. Hobby. I did not know this. The moon actually has a wobble that impacts its orbit around the Earth and a wobble that just kind of. Yeah, and it's on an 18.6 year cycle this wobble. Apparently it changes the moon's impact on our tides. And the reason I actually learned that NASA just came out with a report that basically said, we're going to be hitting significant coastal, flooding coming, the 2030s because it is 18.6 year cycle and are sea levels are rising. That is a fact that I think most people agree with that. Fact sea levels are rising, but it has been kind of hidden by the fact that we're at a point in the moon's wobble cycle.
00:05:28 High tides are lower and low tides are higher. So it's just seems like it's kind of staying the same. But once you're missing the point where the high tides are higher and low tides are lower. There's going to be some fairly significant flooding on most coastal regions of the planet. When does that come in
from here on, is going to slowly start to increase? Its is going to take at least... like not that I keep, forgetting is 2021. That's like 9 years away from nine years. That's my report. I would suggest going to ring. It was put out by NASA recently. Yeah. It came out this week, basically saying that they're going to be parts of the world where this flooding makes it. So that part's are uninhabitable for months on end where I didn't read the whole thing. It is only six pages, but it is a heavy read. So I have only read the articles about it or not making that information.
00:06:28 Yes, all of it.
00:06:31 But was that I suggest moving to a part of the world that is not prone to being taken over by the sea, but there's there's lots of other problems everywhere. So just make with it, what you will? Maybe a raft and start making one of those that you guys are high enough, but with that out of the way, should we get started on this episode? Yes, we should. Okay. Okay, The Unexplained to the mundane. Why don't you come join us on our journey to The Fringe?
00:07:10 Welcome to Journey To The Fringe, your place to come for the facts and just the facts. Also, some fun. Taylor, Chelsea. And together. We are at your house on this journey to The Fringe. No, I haven't seen this handled on a podcast before. So, I'm actually quite excited to cover this topic. It's a bit of a strange one, but it is a question me being, at least a non-practicing lawyer at this time. Has always kind of wandered around my mind. If you have a haunted house. Are you required to tell someone before you sell the house? Fairly simple question? Probably one. Most people don't think about when they talk about haunted houses, but there is actual case law on this topic. There is a very famous case out of New York. There's one of Canada. Clearly do not come here for our legal advice. Come here for the witty banter and two. Maybes, not a little bit. But again, we say it, every time we do this, if
00:08:10 Have an issue with regards to this specific matter. Talk to a lawyer, give them your money. Figure that issue without my contribution to a well Chelsea. How about you get started on your contribution to it? Then my contribution. Are you in the research there? I had to include a sketch a portrait of the spooky house in question was another spooky house artists and do I wish I'll post that on the social media background on the house that we're talking about. It's a large red Victorian. Now, blue vac for you, home on the waterfront in Nyack, New York. Is that how you say it Nyack? I was niak, but I did not look that. I mean, I'm doing my best knowing English. As I do Nyack, New York, which is number one, live betta place, which is approximately
00:09:10 At least twenty miles north of New York City on the West Bank of the Hudson River in Nyack According to some is the most haunted County in New York state attributed, by the upheaval of the region indigenous populations with thousands of years of population, were displaced by waves of Dutch and British settlers and the military campaigns and practice of African slavery, which was conducted there. I don't know that I call it a practice or why I said that in there. I changed it is Nyack. I did it right wing was built in 1890 with five bedrooms. Three point. Five bathrooms adding up to about five thousand square feet. Has three floors, plus basement and the attic, and I can confirm that it's real spooky looking. If I were to see it on the street. I be like, it's probably haunted.
00:10:10 This is your haunted house. And then Taylor would go around the back and then that would be, it would be I was in the early 1960s where they live with their two kids and then eventually their grandchildren, they were there for quite a while. And the house. I've been sitting vacant and in disrepair, for some time prior to the Ashley's moving, when it's being used as a single family residence, and then later a boarding house and then it said, make him for some time, prior to them moving in. And as far as I can find, there is only one death in the house, recorded death. However, it was when the ackley's were living in the house. When a young, otherwise healthy dinner, guests died of a brain aneurysm. So that's kind of the history of the house. What is going on in the house? You ask? What are these haunted notice that we are speaking of it was said, when the ACT Li's moved in that, local children, warned, that act leaves that there.
00:11:10 House was haunted, but I know kids, what do they know, right? Helen actually claimed that there was at least three ghost, which I'll get into coming up, that were inhabiting the residents. She described two as a couple who lived in the eighteenth century. And one other one is a Navy lieutenant in the American Revolution Bill Merrill of paranormal researcher or along with his go-to guy. The medium, Glenn Johnson, contacted the athletes in 1993 because that's what they do. You don't go to them, they come to you. And this time there is no paintings involved. I mean, it just makes it easier to get in with the painting, but whatever to each their own, and they claim to have already made contact with the spirits prior to them, even contacting the Apple exactly. So I'm just going to go ahead and save that for me. That would be a little bit of a red flag, but not for Helen, the lead act Lee. So it continues and they meet with hella.
00:12:10 And let them know that there are poltergeist of Sir George and Lady Margaret, who live in the region, not the house in the eighteenth century. And if you know anything about ghosts would you should trim our last episode? This I wouldn't consider this a poltergeist at all if they're naming names. Gaiser different thing, but that's that's fine. I'm just you know, saying these two dudes go on to publish a book about their findings with Sir, George and Lady Margaret and the lieutenant. I don't know. I just paranormal investigators are so weird so far. And maybe it's just the Warrens. And these guys come in like saying they know things about these ghosts before they even go in there, but it's just kind of coming and trying to me, but I'm sure there are many out there that are decent people. Do you know, any not off the top of my head now? I don't. So I'm not bad-mouthing them. I'm sure they're great.
00:13:10 Men's and these guys who are just out contacting people, again. I mean, I guess has a Paranormal Investigator you maybe actually now that I'm really thinking about it and putting myself in the shoes of a Paranormal, Investigator would go to the haunted houses for me. There are some sightings in the house. So Helen claimed to have seen George senior, which was one of the couple, the two of them sitting in midair watching me paint the ceiling in the living room, rocking back and forth. I was on an 8 foot step ladder. They asked if he approved of what we were doing to the house if the colors were to his liking smiled and nodded his head. Yes, unquote. One of the Ashley's daughter. Cynthia would reportedly be woken up most mornings by one of the spirit is shaking her bed. One morning. She proclaimed to the ghost during
00:14:10 Break that it was spring break and she wanted to sleep in and the ghosts did not wake her up for spring break. And so that was nice of the ghost, Helen also reported Phantom footsteps and slamming doors in the house. They would also reports hearing conversation coming from rooms that were next to them with. Nobody being in the room, random trinkets would be found such as Rings coin Lions, even sugar-tongs that would later banished. And they're also claims that the Ackley sun came, quote, eyeball-to-eyeball unquote with the Navy Lieutenant, which I mean, like, eyeball to eyeball is super close. I don't think that I've even come that close to most people or anyone ever. So little disturbing Mark Cavanaugh who came later. He was engaged to the daughter Cynthia while living at the house. He reported conversations from an empty room. He also recounted another encounter where quote Cynthia was asleep.
00:15:10 And I was drifting off. Then I heard the bedroom door Creek and the floorboard squeak. My back was to the edge of the bed, suddenly the edge of my bed by my midsection depressed down. And I felt something lean against me. I went literally Stone stiff. I was speechless and could hardly move. I was able to twist my neck around enough to see a womanly figure in a soft dress through the Moonlight from the bay windows. I finally relaxed enough to shake my wife, out of a sound sleep acting like a toddler who had just had a nightmare. And quote. I mean that it happens to the best of us when we're scared. They also say everything was pretty much a peaceful coexistence with the ghost. They never really had any scary encounters other than the one that I just read to you. However, he does say that he thinks the ghosts were like family to them, and just testing out if they light, would accept him. Is how he kind of explained it since the act like he's moving in 1989, the next owners have
00:16:10 Not reported any activity. However, they do say they wanted nothing to do with it, Maryland Johnson. Who if you remember from 2 minutes ago were the paranormal investigators, say that the ghost of Sir, George and Lady Margaret. We're not as fond of the new owners and we're thinking of moving on, I'm just thinking of me as a ghost and if it were me, I would have amped up the haunting. If I didn't like someone, you would have done it Beetlejuice style, then I'll probably I would totally be a Beetlejuice ghost, King confirm that right now. Yeah, I would, but to each their own, I guess they may have also left because after the Judgment which were given get into. I'm kind of jumping ahead here, but relates to the ghost side of the story. So after the Judgment against Helen, she stated, she's moving and taking the ghost with her. And after the death of the young woman in the home, which I put earlier, she had a brain aneurysm and she was otherwise a healthy, the house kind of picked up. And it already had this kind of
00:17:10 Like creepiness doctor in the neighborhood, the kids warn them moving and that it was haunted, which kids talk and it kind of picked up from there. And the story started getting some steam around town, and the house became a stop of a tour of Hunter Properties in the area. So these are well-known things, its renowned in the community. It became a stop on like a ghost to work and Helen Ackley submitted her account of the hauntings from the house to Reader's Digest, in a May 1977 Edition. So they recounted in there and then the fiance of the daughter Mark Cavanaugh actually goes on talking about his experiences in the house as well. So that's kind of me setting the stage for where the story is going to think that I didn't know that and this is about the time or a family by the name of the stambovsky is come in now. They are from New York City. They're thinking of moving out to one of the suburb.
00:18:10 And they know nothing about Nyack. That becomes very clear as The Story Goes On, they see this lovely house that is owned by the ackley's and they agree to purchase this house for $650,000. I thought that was a little pricey for that time, but I don't know what real is. I feel like that would be a little bit seem like there are a lot of conditions on this they put down $32,500 and then the sale was going to be closed for a total of $650,000. After everything is signed. This gets a little murky in the before times about how much, the sandbox Keys actually knew about the haunting prior to signing the contract, but a week after they sign the contract, stambovsky requested, an in-person meeting to talk about. The go with mrs. Ackley and mrs. Ackley passionately told stories of the hauntings. And at that point, the same Bosque said, they want nothing to do with this house. They're backing out of the contract.
00:19:10 But as it stood because they'd already put their down payment down. They had to walk away from the $32,500 and what the lawsuit ends up being is them. Suing the Stambaugh skis are suing the ackley's for that down payment back because they did not disclose pertinent information about the house that either changes the value of the house or something material that would force them to not buy it in the first place at me. And that makes sense to me. Yes, kind of like he said, she said, it seems like kind of yes and gets a little bit into it. A lot of that. There's a few legal terms that you need to know going into. This first one is Que Viet and poor, which is basically buyer beware. It's your job to look into the product. You're buying to an extent for the purposes that you're buying at 4. So you need to be asking the questions. And in real estate contracts are basically have an as-is clause which basically saying you're buying this house as is and everything is
00:20:10 Tract forms the contract. So it's up to you to ask the questions that changed the rules within and ask the New York Supreme Court. The court finds pretty clear. Know if that was something that you were worried about. You should have asked a question about it buyer. Beware. You're out that $32,500 on that point. It does seem as though after he puts that deposit down that he then does ask the question. And I think part of it was, you know, how she was on. That leg goes to her about the ghost tour, after that point or the ghost War started. After that point. I'm not sure what. I figured it was important because I believe the ghost tour started prior to them are to them selling, which I figured was a very important to him to put into my side of the story, but I didn't go further surprise on the end of my story. And by the way, the entire
00:21:10 Find this is happening. It's kind of hilarious because this lawsuit bring the ton of attention to this house. It's now worth more money than it was before. So they backed out of the house and the actual smack. I sell this house for more money. And if you go on the Wikipedia article about this, they do talk a bit about the interested parties. Once this lawsuit gets going and people were like, oh, this is a famous haunted house. Now. I must buy it. They're keeping that 32,500. They're also selling the house again because he backed out of the contract. I need to find a buyer. They get more money out of all of this going on. They could have just returned the deposit, but you don't have to return the deposit. Exactly, and the New York Supreme Court said that you don't the sandbox Keys appealed that and this is known as the Ghostbusters ruling. It is stambovsky V Ackley 169 a d, New York appeal Division. If you actually want to read like legal writing at its best, I think the
00:22:10 Majority writing here did a fantastic job and had fun with this writing. So we're going to go through this ruling cuz it is fantastic. The ruling is three judges to two in favor of Stan's boss key. So they find at the end of the day that there was something fundamentally different about this that the buyers shouldn't have to worry about. Therefore. He should get his deposit back. We're going to go through this. Just it's good to know. Upfront. What's going on at? Like he wouldn't have had to ask about it. Like no buyer, beware. On a haunted house. Yes. Should have been disclosed. Yes, and the majority opinion, is written by a Reuben J. There is a dissenting opinion will get into it. A bit that is written by and so I just need to grab his name really quick A Smith Jay and again, 3 to 2. So a few notable part of this opinion not being a local plaintiff could not readily learn that the home. He had contracted to purchase is haunted. What are the source of the spa?
00:23:10 Troll apparitions Theme by defendant sellers are parapsychic or psychogenic having reported their presence in both a national publication. And the local press defendant is a stop to deny their existence. And as a matter of law, the house is haunted. I really love that the fact that she told people that it was haunted. These judges are just saying that was haunted for all purposes that were looking at it because she is stating publication, it is that a lot is more to the point. However, no divination is required to conclude that it is defendants promotional efforts in publicizing her close encounters with the spirits, which Foster the homes reputation in the community. The impact of the reputations US, create a ghost of the, very essence of the bargain between the parties greatly impairing, both the value of the property at its potential for resale, applying the strict rule of Tavia, and pour the buyer beware to a contract involving a house. Possessed by culture Geist conjures, up visions of a psychic or medium routinely company.
00:24:10 The structural engineers and Terminix man on an inspection of every home subject. To a contract of sale. It portends that The Prudent attorney will establish an escrow account less the subject of the transaction, come back to haunt him and his client practice insurance coverage extends to super natural disasters in the interest of its really good writing in the interest of avoiding such an untenable consequences. The notion that a haunting is a condition which can and should be ascertained upon the reasonable. Inspection of the premises is a hobgoblin, which should be exercised from the body of legal precedent and lay quietly to rest.
00:24:56 Are normal lab Papers written like this? Some of them are that is like some as one of the finest pieces of literature I've ever been repressed. That is the funniest paragraph but he still does have fun with it. So kavia and poor is not so all-encompassing a doctrine of common law as to render, Every Act of non-disclosure immune from her dress, whether legal or Equitable, in regards to the necessity of giving information, which has been asked to rule differs somewhat at law and inequity and wild the Law Courts would permit. No, recovery of Damages against the vendor because of your concealment of facts under certain circumstances, get if the vendee refused to complete the contract because of the concealment of a material fact, on the part of the other Equity would refuse to compel him to do. So because Equity only compels the specific performance of a contract which is fair and open. And in regard to, which all material matters, known to each have been communicated to the other.
00:25:56 You said it a little bit back, but I didn't want to interrupt that late. Obviously. This wouldn't have been brought to trial right away. Would it have you have a statute of limitations? I don't know what it is in New York. But there's a time. That you have to bring it within specially. They're looking for a house. I'm guessing they really wanted that 32 Grand back fast. And yes, and they would have been quick because I mean it was stated in their multiple times that it would damage the value of the property and actually ended up adding value to their property and their dad. And I find that hilarious and it's an argument in here for a point to Ward's them getting the deposit back mean. It's like this is negatively a couple ways. It could have affected them negatively, you would say yeses.
00:26:56 Touch on that at the very end of this part just because I do think it's something that is weak about this legal writing that I think they just avoided it cuz they didn't want to worry about it, but we'll talk about it. So they say in this instance. The appellant has met his obligation to conduct an inspection of the premises, and a search of available public records, with respect to title. It should be apparent. However, that the most meticulous inspection and the search would not reveal the presence of poltergeist or unearth the properties, ghoulish reputation in the community. Therefore, there is no sound policy reason to deny plaintiff relief for failing to discover a state of affairs, which most prudent purchasers would not be expected to even contemplate. That's kind of true. You can ask a neighbor what the neighborhoods like or you know look in the newspaper. I mean
00:27:45 It was a very long time ago. I mean, literally by something not having seen it anywhere, but that wouldn't have been a thing. Unless you're like, looking at some sort of a door, something in your life. I think I'm going to do it. I'm going to move to Naya and this looks fine. But yeah, it's I don't know. That's part of the thing. I don't really like if they're saying it seems. So ridiculous stuff makes hold some of that standard, but at the same time like you can ask a neighbor. Like what's that? I was like, what's the neighborhood? Like this is kind of the big takeaway paragraph here where a condition which has been created by the seller materially impairs the value of the contract and is peculiarly within the knowledge of the seller or unlikely to be discovered by a prudent purchaser exercising. Do care with respect to the subject transaction. Non-disclosure constitutes a basis for rescission as a matter of equity, any other outcome, places upon the buyer Not Mirror.
00:28:44 The obligation to exercise care in this purchase. But rather, to be on Nishant, with respect to any fact, which may affect the bargain. No practical purpose is served by imposing. Such a burden upon a purchaser to the contrary. It encourages predatory business practice and offends the principle that Equity will suffer no wrong to be without a remedy. Yeah. I think that's pretty straightforward. If it's something that's so unique that only the first off, they're saying that the seller brought about the statuses there, cuz she's the one who's brought it into the public life. That's where they're saying the actual value with losses in the reputation that they're really trying to avoid the idea that an actual haunted house could harm you, where is there, focusing more On The World At Large. So that means I guess and in situations like this where it's something that is first. I brought about by the seller but also not something that would normally be asked, like another comparable would be like, if the seller had taken like a hoe.
00:29:44 Was to their basement and just hit it in the wall and open it up for a week straight. That would be something that they did to the home. But that's something that you likely would ask. Look how how's the foundation and if you didn't disclose at that point, that would be a dishonest answer or something along those lines. I mean, yeah, have to ask about my three-year-old has been abducted by aliens every Thursday night. Since she was born, Bloodlines you get into Lake, is this going to like continue to happen to me, is at the house or what? But my digression, she I'm going to say just from my little thing that I did. She did go out of her, way to see publication to get this issue.
00:30:44 Let's just say not haunt. Steve very well could have done all of this on her own as well. Just making it all up and going to Publications and talking up a reputation that it already have within the community. And then it is fraud upon by the seller. What they're really doing with this decision to is saying that if we don't put a border somewhere where you don't have to ask questions anymore, you literally will have such a wide array of questions that you would have to ask my ever be able to buy a house and you wouldn't it be able to afford all the experts? You need to come in to look at the house when I was in fact that they would not even have to approach anybody anymore. If we we, we would have to approach them and be like, I need my house inspected and Bigfoot. Aliens gnomes don't know if gnomes were thing, the list goes on and they come off in South America, for sure. All that is terrifying. I've never heard of that.
00:31:44 The defenses that the axle is used throughout, these are relying on the as is Klaus, and there's says, any other matter on things affecting relating to the aforementioned. Premises are purchased as is taking to you on this paragraph. As broad as his language, may be a reasonable interpretation, is that it's the fact is limited to tangible or physical matters and does not extend to Paranormal phenomena. Finally, if language of the contract, is to be construed as broadly as the defendant urges to Encompass the presence of poltergeist in the house. It cannot be said that she has delivered the premise vacant in accordance with her obligations under the provisions of the contract Rider. I really like that.
00:32:27 LA vaquita and then finishes it off. If he has a really good defense the seller, not only take unfair advantage of the buyers ignorance has created and perpetuated, a condition, a belt, which is unlikely to even inquire enforcement of a contract in HorrorLand part, is offensive to the court sense of equity application of the remedy of rescission within the bounds of the narrow exceptions. The doctrine of Caveat Emptor sets forth herein is entirely appropriate to relieve, the unwitting purchaser from the consequences of a most unnatural. Bargain K. What does that mean? In English? That whole sentence? Basically, they're saying that it is that whole thing because Kathy in for buyer, beware is it's a fairly solid and you need fairly significant and unique situations. You need to meet the threshold to have Barbie. We're no longer take place and he saying that the remedy for buyer beware is rescission. You can walk away from The Conch.
00:33:27 You don't have to leave your deposit there. So it is a high standard. That's what he's asking for. That's the remedy the equity and because this is such a unique case and she fully brought on the damage that he believes is there. And this is a case where Kevin poor does not apply and you get your money back and he finishes it. All the is entirely appropriate to relieve. The unwitting purchaser from the consequences of a most unnatural bargain deal with the Devil.
00:33:59 But yeah, that's all I left out quite a few paragraphs. If you're looking for a fun legal read. This is quite good. That is how it ends. Now. There is a dissenting opinion. I dis is, does he get his deposit back? It is written by Ruben and Smith joined by one other dissenting judge. Also wrote an opinion in. This is what it says. He'll settled law in New York state. That the seller of real property is under no duty to speak. When the party's still at arm's length, Amir Silence of the cellar without some act or conduct, which deceives the purchaser does not amount to a concealment that is actual. As fraud. The buyer has the duty to satisfy himself as the quality of his bargain, pursuant to the doctor in a cabin for New York State still applies to real estate transactions. There is no allegation that defendants buy some specific act other than the failure to speak to see if the plaintiff
00:34:59 For the last, a cause of action may be sufficiently stated, or there is a confidential or fiduciary relationship, creating a duty to disclose. And there was a failure to disclose a material fact calculator to induce false police. Basically what they're saying is, if you're in a few Nique relationship, sometimes there is a higher level of your held to a higher level than buyer. Beware, if you're selling something, but that's in the place of confidence or fiduciary relationships, fiduciaries being like lawyer-client privilege, is there ones where you're not just acting in a moneyed interest. Does that mean like that? The house it had such a status, what they're saying right now is he's holding a strict view of caveat before he sang. Look, we have let me finish this up because I think it will get explain better. I think he sums it up really nicely at the end, over her plaintiff here, in has not alleged, and there is no basis for conducting, that a confidential or four this year relationship existed between these parties to an R.
00:35:59 Play transactions such as to give rise to a duty to disclose. In addition. There is no allegation that defendants sort of plaintiff efforts to fulfill his responsibilities fixed by the doctor in a cabin for finally. If the doctrine of caveat and poor is to be discarded. It should be for a reason more substantive than a poltergeist. The existence of a poltergeist is no more binding upon the defending that it is upon this course, so he's just saying this thing is a high standard, you're throwing it out cuz somebody said it's spooky. So he just thinks it's a really dumb case and you're all dumb for giving this guy move into a house. If I later found out that Lake, there is witchcraft. Oh I need to add that to my list of things to ask is so damaging to your buying of a house at it as a last, yes, of Witchcraft with practice there and I found out later, like, after I put the deposit down. I was like, hold on. I need to have an in-person meeting and talk about it. Witchcraft was practiced here.
00:36:59 They're like, yeah, it's on a wood crab walking to her. I would be like all I'm taking you to court. I want my deposit back. It really doesn't sound like that's what happened here. That would kind of sounds like this guy was told like this. This house is haunted or something like that, and he's like, yeah. And then you actually talk to the owners afterwards and social and actually is haunted what she didn't like. Yeah. I don't think you even moved in. But anyhow, you're probably not bound by that ruling depending on where you live. But if you're selling your haunted house that you advertised in media, Publications or on YouTube, or anywhere else that it was haunted, you might have a duty to disclose to The Cellar that the property is haunted. This is a bit of a mouthful that last one view, as I couldn't find, has a good free like that. A base 4 cases to search. I just found it on Google Scholar. That was the best spot for it. The next ones out.
00:37:59 The appeal court heirs, are not the appeal court, the spirit Court of Ontario from 2013 and it is a case by the name of 178. 4773 Ontario Incorporated versus KW labor Association at all. It is about the haunting of a commercial real estate. And that's the number company, which I'm going to refer to that first one as now. That's a real estate from KW labor. That's where the story starts off. I think this case speaks for itself pretty quickly. It's really short to read and the judges are just not having any of it. It's kind of fantastic in September of 2010. The plaintiff purchased a commercial property in Kitchener Ontario from the defendant on December 28th, 2010. An article appeared in the local Kitchener newspaper. Mr. Cramer. A director of the defendant was quoted as saying the following about the subject property to the newspaper reporter and it's haunted.
00:38:59 Quote on quote, quote. I have heard this from a couple of people on the third floor. There's an office up there and they said some days, you see somebody moving around inside of there, and there is nobody there and we used to make jokes that Jimmy Hoffa was in the basement. It's a labyrinth in there. And quote, based solely on this article and action was commenced against the defendant on the basis. That there was a latent defect in the subject property that the defendant knew about and essentially concealed from or failed to disclose to the plaintiff statement of claims States over and over again, that the defect is the existence of a death and or murder at the subject. Property for the purposes of this hearing, I love this sentence because this is a guy who knows, this is the dumbest Corky's ever. For the purposes of this hearing, I have been advised by the solicitor for the defendant that I can. He read into the statement of claims, that there is an allegation that there are ghosts in the building.
00:39:59 Article that they were right about the building, know they filed their lawsuit and in their filing, their allegations are that there was death and or murder at the subject property. Was I never said that at all and they say for the purposes of just getting this over with the guy who sold it actually, said, sure add ghost to it. I don't care. So I'll read that again. For the purposes of this hearing. I have been advised by the solicitor for the defendant that I can read into the statement of claim that there is an allegation that there are ghosts in the building in mr. Kramer's affidavit. That's the guy who sold and in his cross-examination. He makes it clear that he has never seen a ghost, did not believe there was a ghost and that all conversations about the property being haunted or a joke. And we're not serious at age, 18 of mr. Kramer's cross-examination. He makes it clear that he did not think the people who told him the property was haunted, the leave that it was in response to question 91.
00:40:58 We're just joking with you quote, on quote. You replied quote. Oh, yeah, they're both. It was at a social function, kind of thing had a few beers and talking about the goes up the stairs. Hahaha that sort of thing and quotes. That doesn't mean they were made of husband, but that's why I just love the fact that it's just like the judges do not caring. I have reviewed article submitted by the plaintiffs counsel from a few different places. All these article suggests that a stigma may include a property that is haunted. They don't opine on how this would have been proven. They fell well, short of being anything approaching authoritative in essence. What we have here is a double hearsay. Rumor about a ghost from a couple of people after they had consumed a few beers at a social function. There is no proof or even suggestion that a death took place in the building. There is no suggestion that the building is unfit for habitation as a commercial building the purpose for which it was purchased.
00:41:58 In the first place, there is no suggestion that the purchasers intended to use the building for anything other than commercial purposes. In this case, at paragraph, 26 of the agreement for purchase and sale, it reads in part as follows this agreement, including any schedule attached. Hereto shall constitute the entire agreement between the buyers and sellers. There is no representation or warranty collateral agreement or condition, which affects his agreement other than those expressed herein. That's an entire agreement Clause. Everything that we've agreed to is in this contract. There is no evidence before me as a, how the plaintiff would prove the existence of a ghost. I just love that. That's a paragraph in itself. You just made that one line paragraph. He then goes on to say a latent defect of quality going to Fitness for habitation and which is either unknown to the vendor, or such as does not make him chargeable with concealment or Reckless disregard of its truth or falsity will not support any claims of redress by the purchaser. This all comes from a case. I found, very interesting. He cites it as is
00:42:58 Reasoning. Why this isn't something that is a latent defect and it was a seller whose son had committed suicide in the house ten years prior to selling it. And he never told the purchasers that and they said that's not a latent defect. So you can't take back the sale very different than the last case that we don't listen to Destin. It looks like fought tooth-and-nail and this one. Yeah, it sucks. And it's just like it clearly went to before a judge that just like was not having it in the other one had a very good attorney. This is hilarious in that suicide won. The judge also says, in any event, the vendor is not liable for damages for a latent defect for which he has knowledge, unless it renders the premises unfit for habitation or dangerous. So, that's the standard they're holding here. And for the reasons given above, I grant the defendants summary judgment. Dismissing, the plaintiff's claim pursuant to this rule since
00:43:58 I find that there is no genuine issue, requiring a trial with respect to the claim. So this isn't even a full court hearing, the litigation was strictly done from one side. Basically, the guy who bought it said his claim, and then the seller said, no, this is dumb. Let's go to, a summary trial and the judge agrees. He said, nothing else has to be heard. This is stupid. Go away until the defense with her at all. And then, this guy goes in appeals, the Judgment of a jet, get he files with the plaintiff, the plaintiff filed an appeal and he says, I don't agree with the Court's ruling, I want to appeal it, and the entire appeal is two paragraphs Council acknowledges that there is no direct evidence of economic loss, or damage as a result of the stigma of a haunted property. Nor. Is there any direct evidence from anyone who observes any strange occurrences in the property in those circumstances? We see no error in the motion judge's, conclusion that
00:44:58 Case is a proper, one of her dismissal on a submarine judgment. And then, the court says, they're dismissing it with cause, and he had to pay $6,264.44 + HST. For the defense of the seller is not having any of it. I just love how different they are two, completely different things because there's really no haunting. There is a small write-up in the local paper about this guy saying that, oh, yeah, it might be haunted for a long history of being about it. I don't know that there's any actual evidence of an actual haunting or if you got in there, if it would have actually been haunted. Exactly. What can we draw from this? Depending on where you live? Maybe a lot of things, maybe not if you're in New York and you're selling your haunted house. If you told people about it, or if it's online that it's haunted, you may have to tell people about it during Canada and you're just a fan.
00:45:58 He told that your house might be haunted by people at a bar. Probably don't have to disclose it. But again, talk to your lawyers or look out for La blogs around Halloween because lawyers like to make joking little blocks about this around this time. Yeah, I'm sure we'll all be looking out for that. Yeah, in Canada that you don't have to disclose if it's a haunted house as that case says, so and that's not binding on everybody in Canada via Ontario, fuel course. Yes, is fairly powerful because Ontario's a very big Province at but that wouldn't be by any on anybody here in BC. It would more. So just be that if you're looking to sell your haunted house and you didn't tell anybody about it, and they sued you, you would look to this case to say, look. This has been tried in Ontario and they found it stupid and should go away. Yeah, but then I guess it's not the real. I don't know how low its previous cases.
00:46:58 Crazy when the United States, there are states, not other things where you have to. But is it only if there's Publications about it being haunted, or if it's actually haunted, I guess you could argue that depending on the Seas. Yes, but it's truly going to be a unique situation where you find out after paying the deposit and removing conditions, but before moving in, in purchasing the house where you discover that it's haunted, it is going to be truly unique cases. I don't know how they would remedy it if you had moved in and the same situation had occurred. I guess they don't have court cases and nobody actually took anybody to court in Amityville moved in and it was heavily haunted. Apparently, they left within 28 days and nothing ever came of that. But that would have been. I don't know how they purchase. It might have been a foreclosure from the bank. I mean,
00:47:58 It's the same thing though. It said there's a clause in it when we were talking about it earlier that it was as is exactly and that really depends on individuals can talk about that in that situation. Let's say Ackley or a bank actually knew about the haunting. She told people about the haunting, she advertised The Haunting, a bank wouldn't know about the haunting cuz they were never in the house. So it's all about kind of whether or not usually, as is. I'm just thinking what the weather is something that wasn't disclosed. What if I'm just thinking about myself right now. What if I like put my life savings into this house, I move in, I forget to ask if it's haunted or of Witchcraft has been practiced there and it never comes up and I move in first night. I like go to bed and I wake up and all the cabinet doors are open. When I wake up in the morning. The spoons are bent. I'm thinking, like, buyer's regret here. Like I bought a poltergeist
00:48:58 Nobody told me about this. I am going to sue the shit out of these guys like it. What point do you like? Because in that situation that wouldn't be able to reputation of your property? That would be about, like, actual your belongings. With in it that have been damaged mental, and none of that was decided. Neither of these cases, the reputation. And the other one said that it needed to be something that is so damaging to the house and it would make it unlivable. And then you would have to talk to me, know, and that would be an argument. You would have to make before a course, but then we would really have to get into the issue of, is this a real thing, which I don't know if the court prepared to make a decision on? But you know, we can probably bring out a litigator at some point. I just talked about this. I know a lot of them actually know a good one that would specialize in all. We want someone like the guy who wrote that.
00:49:58 Take him to the social media for this point. Like I I'm having like I want out like this was a mistake. I don't like that. That point my best and then it's did it come with you or was it there prior? And how do you prove that exactly my best advice in that situation is tell, no one about it and then sell the house. So don't tell everyone, just sell the house, the attention on its increase, the value of the house and then sell it again. It has to be
00:50:46 That's good advice. Not legal advice. Those are just spiritual advice Journey to the friends like friendly banter advice. If I was rude to come into the situation. Kind of you don't ever site us in your lawsuit and don't ever find you a question. Okay. I thought it was fun. I just love how different like you either. Get the judges, who were the more exciting law school students who had a little more Flair for writing or the ones who are very black and white and boring people would have loved to have seen Lord Denning deal with this. He's a very prolific judge out of Britain who you have to, if you go to law school, you have to read a lot of Lord Denning, but he is a delight to read because he really paint the picture with everything he talks about.
00:51:34 Nothing about lie or anything, except these magnificent names that they give all these cases to be a judge and to have to bee stings on. Like, if it's never come before the court before and then it's like the be all for all these other cases to go back to you. You have to like, do your homework on what you think needs to happen? Because then all the other cases are going to be based on it or the most part. Kind of all you actually have to do is if you have good lawyers arguing before you all you have to do is say, which one you actually want to go with, and they will have given you all the cases that you're going to stay up for your ruling, that works like that. That's not always how it works. Like a judge, will come to their own ruling, but I've talked to some people before and they basically say, yeah, a good lawyer should have it. Basically change a word or two and the documents I've submitted work as your ruling as a judge and I don't really know what them. Yeah. It's kind of hard to explain.
00:52:34 Thank you, everybody, for stopping in and saying, hi. And listening to me, ramble about the law. Sometimes it can be fun. Sometimes it is not, but this time it was fun with the ghosts and stuff. Stay tuned for our next episode. TBA, for we have not discussed this, but we'll see you same time. Same Journey to the Friends Channel next week, and we'll have another adventure. Take care.
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