WEBVTT 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.599 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:20.600 us on a Journey to the Fringe. We stand by it. 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:22.920 I didn't actually run that one by Chelsea. I 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:24.719 thought she would just kind of agree with me 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:27.260 on that We'll figure it out if we ever have to 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:29.379 I don't know how we've done this for people that 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:32.960 are fairly not great at consistency I think we're 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.560 running like six seasons of not missing a Friday. 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.579 You can't just say that out loud on a recorded 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:43.840 podcast I can and I did that might create us 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.859 some problems. We are your podcast host, Taylor 00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:49.579 and Chelsea, and here today going over a very 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:53.619 famous Bigfoot story from way back in the day. 00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:56.320 What could this even be? Chelsea, I'm sure you 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.880 know the story. It is ancient. It is kind of 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:00.920 everywhere. And I kind of forgot it existed till 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:02.799 I sought and passing for research on something 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:04.900 else I'd been working on. But as I looked into 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:07.280 it, I realized there's a lot that's been happening 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.739 on it in the last decade. So I thought it'd be 00:01:09.739 --> 00:01:12.260 good to go over the story and make Make sure 00:01:12.260 --> 00:01:15.340 everybody knows it and knows how it's gone since 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:17.879 you maybe last heard about it. Let's hear it. 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.579 Chelsea, if I say the name Zana, does it ring 00:01:20.579 --> 00:01:23.799 any bells for you? Vaguely. Is this the circus 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:29.400 one? No, this is Zana Abkhazia in Russia. Okay, 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.920 this is the story of a Russian Bigfoot from way 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:36.120 back in the day. We're talking the 1860s. Holy 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:39.540 crap. It is fairly well documented as well as 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:43.780 it could be for the time. It is fairly well regarded 00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:47.340 overall that something weird did happen in this 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:51.159 area of Russia I do have at least one of the 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:54.019 people who got Secondhand information wrote it 00:01:54.019 --> 00:01:56.219 down and that's the story we're gonna be going 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:57.959 over for this and then from there We're gonna 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.760 talk about what's happened since then Okay. This 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.340 comes from the book In the Footsteps of the Russian 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:07.040 Snowman by Dmitry Byanov. In Abkhazia, Western 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.979 Caucasus relict hominoids are called obnagwa. 00:02:10.219 --> 00:02:12.599 While collecting reports in 1962, a colleague 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:15.520 of Boris Porzhnev, zoologist professor Alexander 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.620 Mashkovtsev, heard and studied the story of Zana. 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:22.259 Subsequently, Porchnev took over where his late 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.340 companion left off. The following information 00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:27.280 is borrowed from Porchnev's work, The Struggle 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.939 for Troglodytes. Zana was a female Abnalyut who 00:02:30.939 --> 00:02:33.360 had been caught and tamed and who lived and died 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:35.259 within the memory of a number of people still 00:02:35.259 --> 00:02:37.580 alive at the time of the research. She was buried 00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:41.580 near the village of Tikhina in the Okomchiri 00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:45.159 district of Kazhia in the 1880s or 1890s. The 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:47.199 manner of her capture is vague. Some said it 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.000 was not chance. Hunters familiar with an age 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.159 -old technique tied her up, and when she furiously 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:54.759 fought back, hit her with cudgels, gagged her 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:57.520 mouth with felt, and shackled her legs to a log. 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.099 Probably she had already changed hands by a sale 00:03:01.099 --> 00:03:03.500 when she became property of the ruling prince, 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:07.060 D .M. Achba, who was the titular head of the 00:03:07.060 --> 00:03:09.379 Zidane region. She passed into the possession 00:03:09.379 --> 00:03:12.659 of one of his vassals, named Cholo Kua, and still 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:15.780 later, she was presented to a nobleman, Eji Ganaba, 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.199 who visited the region. She took her away, still 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:20.560 shackled and chained, to his estate in the village 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.960 of Takina on the Mokva River, 78 kilometers from 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:26.960 Sukhumi. At first, Ganaba lodged her in a very 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.000 strong enclosure and nobody ventured in to give 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.520 her food, for she acted like a wild beast. It 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.030 was thrown to her. She dug herself a hole in 00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:35.930 the ground and slept in it. For the first three 00:03:35.930 --> 00:03:38.069 years, she lived in this wild state, gradually 00:03:38.069 --> 00:03:40.550 becoming tamer. After three years, she was moved 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:43.210 to a wattle fence enclosure under an awning near 00:03:43.210 --> 00:03:45.409 the house. Tethered at first, but later she was 00:03:45.409 --> 00:03:47.750 let loose to wander about. The story is messed 00:03:47.750 --> 00:03:50.610 up. Yeah, it really is weird. And it's hard to 00:03:50.610 --> 00:03:53.069 verify all of this because this is all very secondhand 00:03:53.069 --> 00:03:56.330 information, even the guy writing it. However, 00:03:56.650 --> 00:03:58.969 she never went far from the place where she received 00:03:58.969 --> 00:04:01.569 her food. She could not endure warm ruins and, 00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:04.219 year round, in any weather, slept outdoors in 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:06.419 a hole that she made herself under the awning. 00:04:06.699 --> 00:04:09.139 Villagers teased her with sticks thrust through 00:04:09.139 --> 00:04:11.939 the wattle fence and she would snatch them with 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.599 fury, bare her teeth and howl. Her skin was black 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.139 or dark gray and her whole body covered with 00:04:17.139 --> 00:04:19.519 reddish black hair. The hair on her head was 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.720 tousled and thick, hanging mane -like down her 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.889 back. She could not speak. Over decades that 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:27.649 she lived with people, Zana did not learn a single 00:04:27.649 --> 00:04:30.930 Abkhaz word. She only made inarticulate sounds 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:33.430 and mutterings and cries when irritated. But 00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:35.449 she reacted to her name, carried out commands 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:38.170 given by her master and was scared when he shouted 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:40.850 at her. And this despite the fact that she was 00:04:40.850 --> 00:04:43.050 very tall, massive and broad with huge breasts 00:04:43.050 --> 00:04:45.769 and buttocks, muscular arms and legs and fingers 00:04:45.769 --> 00:04:48.189 that were longer and thicker than human fingers, 00:04:48.209 --> 00:04:51.110 she could splay her toes widely and move apart 00:04:51.110 --> 00:04:53.170 the big toe. From remembered descriptions given 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:56.569 to the Mashkov, Sev? and Porchnev. Her face was 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:59.069 terrifying, broad with high cheekbones, flat 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:01.449 nose, turned out nostrils, muzzle -like jaws, 00:05:01.949 --> 00:05:04.490 wide mouth with large teeth, low forehead, and 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:07.029 eyes of a reddish tinge. But the most frightening 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:08.990 feature was her expression, which was purely 00:05:08.990 --> 00:05:12.009 animal, not human. Sometimes she would give a 00:05:12.009 --> 00:05:14.769 spontaneous laugh, bearing those big white teeth 00:05:14.769 --> 00:05:17.470 of hers. The latter were so strong that she easily 00:05:17.470 --> 00:05:19.850 cracked the hardest walnuts. She lived for many 00:05:19.850 --> 00:05:22.009 years without showing any change. No gray hairs, 00:05:22.110 --> 00:05:24.269 no falling teeth, keeping strong and fit. as 00:05:24.269 --> 00:05:27.089 ever. Her athletic power was enormous. She would 00:05:27.089 --> 00:05:29.649 outrun a horse and swim across the wild Malkva 00:05:29.649 --> 00:05:32.310 River, even when it rose in violent high tide. 00:05:32.509 --> 00:05:34.970 Seemingly without effort, she lifted with one 00:05:34.970 --> 00:05:37.370 hand an 80 kilo sack of flour and carried it 00:05:37.370 --> 00:05:39.550 uphill from the water mill to the village. She 00:05:39.550 --> 00:05:42.689 climbed trees to get fruit and to gorge herself 00:05:42.689 --> 00:05:45.310 with grapes. She would pull down a whole vine 00:05:45.310 --> 00:05:47.730 growing around the tree. She ate whatever was 00:05:47.730 --> 00:05:50.829 offered to her, including hominy and meat. Hominy 00:05:50.829 --> 00:05:53.269 is a type of corn. With bare hands and enormous 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:55.959 gluttony. She loved wine and was allowed her 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.040 fill after which she would sleep for hours in 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:01.459 a swoon -like state. She liked to lie in a cool 00:06:01.459 --> 00:06:04.480 pool side -by -side with buffaloes. At night 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.920 she used to roam the surrounding hills. She wielded 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.339 big sticks against dogs and on other perilous 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:11.680 occasions. She had a curious obsession for playing 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.860 with stones, knocking one against another and 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.220 splitting them. She took swims the year round 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:18.279 and preferred to walk naked even in the winter, 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:20.800 tearing dresses that she was given to shreds. 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.639 However, she showed more tolerance wore a loincloth. 00:06:23.740 --> 00:06:25.740 Sometimes she went into the house, but the women 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:27.819 were afraid of her and came near only when she 00:06:27.819 --> 00:06:30.220 was in gentle moods. When angry, she presented 00:06:30.220 --> 00:06:32.620 a scary sight and could even bite, but she obeyed 00:06:32.620 --> 00:06:35.360 her master, Eji Ganaba, and he knew how to bring 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.360 her to heel. Adults used her as a boogeyman figure 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.279 with children, although Zana never actually attacked 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.639 children. She was trained to perform simple domestic 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.220 tasks such as grinding grain for flour, bringing 00:06:46.220 --> 00:06:48.500 home firewood and water, or sacks to and from 00:06:48.500 --> 00:06:51.160 the water mill, or pull her master's high boots 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:54.000 off. But she became the mother of human children. 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:56.019 And this is the wondrous side of her whole life 00:06:56.019 --> 00:06:58.079 story, very important for the science of genetics. 00:06:58.459 --> 00:07:00.519 Zana was pregnant several times by various men, 00:07:00.699 --> 00:07:02.819 and giving birth without assistance, she always 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.180 watched the newborn child in the cold water spring. 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:07.519 The half -breed infants unable to survive her 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.600 ablutions died. So, subsequently, when Zana gave 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:12.560 birth, the villagers began taking the newborn 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.779 babies away from her in good times, and reared 00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:16.740 them themselves. Four times this happened, and 00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:18.540 the children, two sons and two daughters, grew 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:20.899 up as humans, fully fledged, and normal men. 00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:23.629 women who could talk and possessed reason. It 00:07:23.629 --> 00:07:25.870 is true that they had some strange physical and 00:07:25.870 --> 00:07:27.730 mental features, but nonetheless, they were fully 00:07:27.730 --> 00:07:30.449 capable of engaging in work and social life. 00:07:30.629 --> 00:07:33.069 The eldest son's name was Dejanda, and the eldest 00:07:33.069 --> 00:07:35.930 daughter was Khojanar. The second daughter was 00:07:35.930 --> 00:07:38.529 named Khamasa, and the younger son, Kuwait, who 00:07:38.529 --> 00:07:41.949 died in 1954. All had descendants of their own 00:07:41.949 --> 00:07:44.709 scattered across Abkhazia. I do remember this 00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:47.050 story now. Was it the part about her dipping 00:07:47.050 --> 00:07:49.410 them in the water? Like all of it, having kids 00:07:49.410 --> 00:07:51.790 and everything. Okay. I'm familiar with the story 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:53.980 now that you've ref - refreshed my memory. Oh 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:55.560 good and I'm going to keep refreshing everybody 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.939 else's memory who's listening. No you can stop 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:02.860 now. Oh good. There were rumors that the father 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:06.040 of Gamasa and Kawit was in fact Eji Ganaba himself, 00:08:06.100 --> 00:08:08.279 but in the census they were put under a different 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.500 surname and their family name became Sebekia. 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:12.680 It is significant that Zana was buried in the 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:14.899 family cemetery of the Ganabas, and that the 00:08:14.899 --> 00:08:17.620 youngest children of Zana were brought up by 00:08:17.620 --> 00:08:20.899 Ganaba's wife. Gamasa and Kawit were both powerfully 00:08:20.899 --> 00:08:23.680 built and had dark skin, but they inherited scarcely 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:26.120 anything from Zana's facial appearance. The complex 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.819 of features inherited from their father was dominant 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:30.879 them and overruled the mother's line of descent. 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:33.740 Cuit, who died at the age of 65 or 70, was ascribed 00:08:33.740 --> 00:08:35.899 by his fellow villagers as a little different 00:08:35.899 --> 00:08:38.379 from the human norm, except for certain small 00:08:38.379 --> 00:08:41.039 divergences. He was extremely strong, difficult 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.460 to deal with, and quick to pick a fight. In fact, 00:08:43.539 --> 00:08:46.000 he lost his right hand after one of the many 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.179 fights he had with his fellow villagers, but 00:08:48.179 --> 00:08:50.659 his left hand suffice him to mow and do other 00:08:50.659 --> 00:08:52.919 work on a collective farm and even climb trees. 00:08:53.019 --> 00:08:55.659 When old, he moved to the town of Tagavarchelli, 00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:58.220 where he eventually died, but he was taken back 00:08:58.090 --> 00:09:00.429 for burial at Tequena. The next stage of the 00:09:00.429 --> 00:09:02.850 Zana case was taken up by attempts to find her 00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:05.750 grave and skeleton. Here is what Boris Poshnev 00:09:05.750 --> 00:09:08.009 says about his first efforts in that direction. 00:09:08.269 --> 00:09:11.009 In September of 1964, the archaeologist V .S. 00:09:11.190 --> 00:09:13.250 Orelkin and I made our first attempt to find 00:09:13.250 --> 00:09:16.149 Zana's grave. The cemetery was wildly overgrown 00:09:16.149 --> 00:09:18.809 and only the 10 -year -old mound over Cuit's 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:21.190 grave could be picked out among the bracken covering 00:09:21.190 --> 00:09:23.429 the hillside. Nobody else had been buried since 00:09:23.429 --> 00:09:26.110 then. Zana must be somewhere near. We asked the 00:09:26.110 --> 00:09:28.450 old residents in the last scion of the Ganaba 00:09:28.450 --> 00:09:31.690 den, 79 years old, Kenton. He was clear that 00:09:31.690 --> 00:09:34.090 we should dig under a pomegranate tree. What 00:09:34.090 --> 00:09:36.090 was found there turned out to be the remains 00:09:36.090 --> 00:09:38.409 of one of Zana's grandchildren who had died early. 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:40.450 For the profile that we established from the 00:09:40.450 --> 00:09:42.350 skull was extraordinarily like the profile of 00:09:42.350 --> 00:09:44.570 Zana's two living grandchildren whom I myself 00:09:44.570 --> 00:09:47.389 had met. After two more expeditions, the search 00:09:47.389 --> 00:09:49.769 party had still not found Zana's bones. Though 00:09:49.769 --> 00:09:52.610 in a third attempt in 1965, they found what are 00:09:52.610 --> 00:09:54.750 probably the bones of of Gamasa as they present 00:09:54.750 --> 00:09:57.750 slight but definite paleoanthropic features. 00:09:57.929 --> 00:10:00.149 After the passing of Portion of it fell to my 00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:02.649 lot to continue the search, I headed three expeditions 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:05.929 to Abakasia in search of Zana's skeleton in 71, 00:10:06.110 --> 00:10:09.370 75, and 78, which merits a separate story. Our 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:12.110 difficulty was that by that time, the last scion 00:10:12.110 --> 00:10:15.350 of the Ganaba Dan had finally passed away and 00:10:15.350 --> 00:10:17.710 nobody knew exactly where Zana's grave was. We 00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:20.070 put in a tremendous amount of spade work on that 00:10:20.070 --> 00:10:22.980 hillside, digging sticky clay earth. under the 00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:25.580 almost daily downpours. During the second expedition, 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:27.960 I was taken seriously ill with an illness which 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:30.220 doctors failed to identify. We never found a 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:32.399 skeleton that would fit Zana's features as described 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.059 by witnesses. It was then decided to exhume the 00:10:35.059 --> 00:10:37.320 skulls of Kuwait, Zana's younger son, whose grave 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.240 was still well indicated. Professor Borchak Abramovich 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:43.320 assisted me in that digging. I brought the skull 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:45.480 to Moscow where it was studied by two physical 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:49.500 anthropologists, M .A. Kolodieva and M .M. Gerasimova. 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:51.759 The results of the study were purported by me 00:10:51.659 --> 00:10:54.360 at the Relict Hominoid Research Seminar at the 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.139 Moscow Natural Society and published in 1987. 00:10:59.220 --> 00:11:02.220 That's the story of Zana, more or less. We got 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:04.919 it like 80 years after it purportedly happened. 00:11:05.139 --> 00:11:07.720 Even, there's no children of hers left. There 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.519 are some grandchildren to see, but like... Like, 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:13.559 living, like, descendants. Alive, yeah. Okay. 00:11:13.980 --> 00:11:15.980 But like, even when the stories were told, nobody 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:19.149 had actually met Zana. okay it's just like legend 00:11:19.149 --> 00:11:21.990 at this point yeah but everybody kind of agrees 00:11:21.990 --> 00:11:24.129 on the story and this is as far back as we can 00:11:24.129 --> 00:11:26.769 go look at it is uh this guy who went and visited 00:11:26.769 --> 00:11:29.350 the town found the sun's skull so the research 00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:32.970 on zana began in 1962 when moscow biologist alexander 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:35.330 mashkovtsev traveled to the village there he 00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.269 heard the stories about zana those are what we 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:39.090 were hearing there from the local residents he 00:11:39.090 --> 00:11:41.169 soon passed them on to the historian cryptozoologist 00:11:41.169 --> 00:11:43.490 porshnev together with colleagues porshnev went 00:11:43.490 --> 00:11:46.169 to tekina to find elderly people who had seen 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.889 zana in person after more than 70 years had passed 00:11:48.889 --> 00:11:51.490 since her death. Though, these witnesses were 00:11:51.490 --> 00:11:53.590 over a hundred years old, they still vividly 00:11:53.590 --> 00:11:55.629 remembered the events related to Zana. And sorry, 00:11:55.690 --> 00:12:00.009 I misspoke, they did meet her. Just super old. 00:12:00.009 --> 00:12:02.429 In the story that was being relayed, it said 00:12:02.429 --> 00:12:06.269 that Zana did not age. So I thought - Yeah, but 00:12:06.269 --> 00:12:07.429 she did die eventually. I almost thought she 00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:10.090 might have been eternal based on that, but okay, 00:12:10.129 --> 00:12:13.230 she did die. But they don't actually know when 00:12:13.230 --> 00:12:16.230 she died, or at least from the story that - to 00:12:16.230 --> 00:12:25.090 hold what she died from. abnormal yeah and what 00:12:25.090 --> 00:12:27.350 they believe like it seems like she was horribly 00:12:27.350 --> 00:12:30.409 abused oh yeah it might be a little sad as we 00:12:30.409 --> 00:12:32.970 get going too but there's a bit more still in 00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:36.970 1975 historian Igor Dmitrovich Burtsev continued 00:12:36.970 --> 00:12:39.250 the research and initially no one could locate 00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:41.350 Zana's grave but the burial site of her son Kuwait 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:43.970 who died in 1954 was preserved that's the part 00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:45.509 we were listening to at the end of that story 00:12:45.509 --> 00:12:48.149 Burtsev also met Kuwait's daughter Reza born 00:12:48.149 --> 00:12:51.330 in 1934 from his second marriage according to 00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:53.929 Burtsev Reza Burcev had African facial features, 00:12:54.549 --> 00:12:56.529 slightly curly hair and greyish skin. And after 00:12:56.529 --> 00:12:59.529 a long search, Burcev found Zana's grave. He 00:12:59.529 --> 00:13:01.529 conducted excavations that obtained the skull 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:04.389 of Kuwait and presumably Zana herself. So in 00:13:04.389 --> 00:13:07.250 75, they did locate it. Years later, Burcev's 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:09.370 research caught the attention of American scientists 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:11.950 studying the genome and lifestyles of Neanderthals. 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:14.629 In a laboratory for Neanderthal genetics at New 00:13:14.629 --> 00:13:17.809 York University, Burcev brought Kuwait's Zabikia's 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:20.230 skull after struggling to get permission to exhume 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:23.120 the grave. based on the skull material was supposed 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.539 to determine whether Zana was a Neanderthal. 00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.759 And as of 2015, the last kind of notice I know 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:30.899 of for sure where these skulls are, they're still 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:34.320 in Moscow. Many theories were out there about 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.980 what Zana could be. There is a local Bigfoot 00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:40.820 legend in the area, they're called the Almosty. 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.440 Some people believe that Zana was part of the 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.539 Almosty, the Caucasian analog for Bigfoot. Locals 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:49.039 described her as unusually strong, fast, resistant 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.220 to cold, traits that fuel claims that she was 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:53.830 a surviving relict hominin. And this interpretation 00:13:53.830 --> 00:13:56.789 dominates especially in cryptozoological writings 00:13:56.789 --> 00:13:59.330 for decades from when she was discovered. You 00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:01.850 also might notice near the end there of my talking, 00:14:02.070 --> 00:14:04.230 some people believe that she might have been 00:14:04.230 --> 00:14:06.889 related or had Neanderthal genetics. So there 00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:09.649 might have been like a lost breed of Neanderthals 00:14:09.649 --> 00:14:13.309 that survived in Siberia. Okay. Is either a Neanderthal 00:14:13.309 --> 00:14:16.169 remnant or a Denisovan or a previously unknown 00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:18.730 archaic species preserved in isolation. These 00:14:18.730 --> 00:14:21.090 ideas persisted because no genetic data existed 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:24.509 and kind of her description made her sound like 00:14:24.509 --> 00:14:26.649 what we think of as a Neanderthal. And others 00:14:26.649 --> 00:14:28.470 think that she might have been a feral human 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:31.210 or isolated mountain population that was living 00:14:31.210 --> 00:14:34.129 there. Just some group that's weirdly evolved 00:14:34.129 --> 00:14:36.730 on their own out there. And interesting stuff 00:14:36.730 --> 00:14:39.350 that comes around 2015 is there's a theory that 00:14:39.350 --> 00:14:42.070 Zana, who had dark skin, could have been a representative 00:14:42.070 --> 00:14:45.870 of an Afro -Abkhazian group. However, eyewitnesses 00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:47.889 who saw Zana claimed that she had nothing in 00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:50.740 common with them. The main argument against her 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.620 Afro -Abkhazian origin was her abundant body 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:57.519 hair. According to writer Fazil Iskandar, elderly 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.360 people who knew Zana may have exaggerated her 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.679 body hair to attract public attention to the 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:05.320 village. Descriptions of Zana herself exist only 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.200 in stories and photographs of her descendants 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.480 and one of their skulls do not exhibit the traits 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.759 that would prove Zana was a relict hominid. The 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.120 skulls, which some enthusiasts believe belonged 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:17.320 to Zana, as reported by Bercev, is not necessarily 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.440 hers. And this is parts written before DNA testing 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.240 could be done on the skulls. This burial was 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.120 distinctive for the crouched position of the 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.639 body while Islamic burial customs require a body 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.279 to be laid out straight. The skull itself belonged 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.899 to an elderly woman and had distinct equatorial 00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:37.220 features. Pronounced prognathism, a convex forehead, 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:40.139 slightly forward -facing cheekbones, a wide nose, 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:43.039 flattened nasal bones, and a broad interocular 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.259 space. Basically, what they're describing with 00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:47.600 those words is what you would think of as a person 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.100 living in Africa. Cuit's skull is indeed impressive, 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.120 powerful brow ridge is a large face, wide nose, 00:15:54.259 --> 00:15:56.919 and a pronounced occiput. However, by all accounts, 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.279 he was homo sapient. The man was undoubtedly 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.740 remarkable, but his size was not unusually rare 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:03.940 for the Caucasus. The large brow ridge does not 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:06.039 have the character of a ridge as it would in 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.779 a Neanderthal and the so -called supraorbital 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:11.340 triangle. Flattening at the base of the zygomatic 00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.820 process of the frontal bone, a typical sapient 00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:16.059 trait is clearly expressed. The temporal bone 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:19.059 at the lower jaw structure are all distinctly 00:16:19.059 --> 00:16:21.120 modern. Are we still talking about? We're talking 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.080 about her son. Oh okay. So they've studied both 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.039 skulls. Now the next theory pops up in 2015 as 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.820 to what Zana was and I think this one's pretty 00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:34.419 interesting Chelsea. Okay. Brian Sykes, professor 00:16:34.419 --> 00:16:37.879 from University of Oxford, finally starts studying 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.539 the DNA. So he analyzes the DNA of Zana's descendant, 00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:44.019 the son that we have the skeleton for, and it's 00:16:44.019 --> 00:16:46.460 discovered that they have West African genes. 00:16:46.659 --> 00:16:49.379 But surprisingly, this DNA did not match any 00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:52.340 known modern African group. Sykes theorizes that 00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:54.759 the ancestors may have lived in the Caucus Mountains 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:57.620 for generations after leaving Africa over a hundred 00:16:57.620 --> 00:16:59.889 thousand years ago. Saliva tests were carried 00:16:59.889 --> 00:17:01.970 out on Zana's living relatives, and a tooth was 00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:03.690 available from the remains of her deceased son, 00:17:03.909 --> 00:17:06.109 Kawit. The findings are controversial. This comes 00:17:06.109 --> 00:17:08.609 after Genesis' involvement in other high -profile 00:17:08.609 --> 00:17:11.210 cases dealing with disputed DNA samples and conclusions. 00:17:11.349 --> 00:17:13.450 In 2014, Sykes and colleagues published a study 00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:17.109 of their findings in mitochondrial 12S RNA sequencing 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:19.809 in samples of anomalous primates, popularly called 00:17:19.809 --> 00:17:21.589 the Yetis, and the team concluded the samples 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:24.069 connected the legend with the Yeti with a paleolithic 00:17:24.069 --> 00:17:27.049 polar bear. Zana's existence seems to be established 00:17:27.049 --> 00:17:29.819 historically by witness and residents of Akagia, 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.380 yet experts wrestle with the background and biological 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:35.440 identity. Was she simply a victimized woman suffering 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.380 from a disability or a runaway slave? His theory 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:41.259 was that there's entirely separate, like, migration 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:43.680 of people out of Africa about 100 ,000 years 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:47.440 ago who are living, like, isolated in Siberia, 00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:50.299 so they maintained, like, their black skin and 00:17:50.299 --> 00:17:52.700 would still be existing there, I guess, and she 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:54.619 would have been, like, kidnapped from that tribe 00:17:54.619 --> 00:17:57.940 out in Siberia. Interesting theory. How would 00:17:57.940 --> 00:18:00.299 they have evolved though to be able to live without 00:18:00.299 --> 00:18:02.799 clothes? That's a really good question I think 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.920 you can attribute that part of the legend as 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.680 legend and nothing more. Okay I think you got 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.079 to accept parts of the story as we keep going 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:13.680 seem like they might have just been made up by 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.660 the people I accept it all don't worry. Okay 00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:19.160 good The last study that was done on this was 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.500 in 2021, and I do think this puts the whole story 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.539 to bed as to what happened. June 14th, 2021, 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:29.720 a paper was posted in PubMed Central for Medicine, 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.240 article titled The Genomic Origin of Zana of 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.839 Abkhazia, written by Ashot Margarian, Mikhail 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:40.299 Holger Sinding, Christian Caro, Vladimir Yamchikov, 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:43.500 Igor Burtsev, and Thomas Gilbert. They finally 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.599 did a study, they confirmed that the two skulls 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.900 were related, and they said the following. Enigmatic 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:51.000 phenomena have sparked the imagination of people 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.559 around the globe into creating folkloric creatures. 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:56.299 One prime example is Zana of Abkhazia, a well 00:18:56.299 --> 00:18:58.539 -documented 19th century female who was captured 00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:01.119 living in the forest. Zana's appearance was sufficiently 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.319 unusual that she was referred to by locals as 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.460 an alnesty. The analog of Bigfoot in the Caucus. 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.380 Although the exact origin of Zana's burial site 00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:10.859 was unknown, the grave verse on Kuwait was identified 00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:13.359 in 1971. The genomes of Kuwait and the alleged 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.079 Zana skeleton were sequenced using ancient DNA 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.440 techniques. The identical MTDNA and parent -offspring 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.460 relationship between the two indicated that the 00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:24.019 unknown woman was indeed Zana. So they were able 00:19:24.019 --> 00:19:26.240 to confirm that that was her son and therefore 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.119 by extension the skull they found was Zana. Population 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.359 genomic analysis demonstrated that Zana's immediate 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:35.299 genetic ancestry can likely be traced to present 00:19:35.299 --> 00:19:38.839 -day East African populations. We speculate that 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.680 Zana might have had a genetic disorder such as 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.579 congenital generalized hypertrichosis which could 00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.559 partially explain her strange behavior, lack 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.740 of speech, and long body hair. Our findings elucidate 00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:52.319 Zana's unfortunate story and provide a clear 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.900 example of how prejudice of the time led to notions 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.839 of cryptic hominids that are still held and transmitted 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.799 by some today. In summary, our results based 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.900 on genome -wide analysis reveal that Zana's genome 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:06.759 had a sub -Saharan African genetic origin, consistent 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.700 with the results of previously unpublished craniometric 00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:12.920 and mtDNA analyses. This suggested that her presence 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:14.869 in the region may have been linked to the Ottoman 00:20:14.869 --> 00:20:17.490 Empire slave trade to Istanbul. That was one 00:20:17.490 --> 00:20:19.589 of the main hubs for the slave trade in the region 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:22.509 of the 19th century. Moreover, Zana's largely 00:20:22.509 --> 00:20:25.210 Eastern African ancestry is consistent with the 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:27.470 historical records indicating that most of the 00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:29.390 African slaves in the Ottoman Empire originated 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:32.329 around the areas of Africa's Great Lakes and 00:20:32.329 --> 00:20:34.450 present -day Sudan. The contemporary reports 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:36.450 and subsequent tales of Zana's wildness were 00:20:36.450 --> 00:20:38.509 at least partially based on some of her unusual 00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:40.769 physical characteristics, such as the lack of 00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:43.289 speech, intellectual disability, and long hair. 00:20:43.309 --> 00:20:45.809 covering her body, to name a few. With the genomic 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.569 data, clearly rejecting all non -human hypotheses, 00:20:48.789 --> 00:20:51.130 we speculate that if these descriptions of her 00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:53.230 physical characteristics are accurate, she may 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:55.789 have had a rare human genetic disorder such as 00:20:55.789 --> 00:20:59.130 congenital generalized hypertrichosis, a syndrome 00:20:59.130 --> 00:21:01.430 with dysmorphic facial features, intellectual 00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:04.089 disability, and hypertrichosis. And I need to 00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:06.130 add, they did have a section on ethics in their 00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:08.329 paper. Following her capture in the forest, Donna 00:21:08.329 --> 00:21:10.950 was deprived of her basic human rights and treated 00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:13.599 as a slave. She was kept in captivity, likely 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:15.859 forced to have sexual relations with local men 00:21:15.859 --> 00:21:18.140 and worked in forced labor conditions. After 00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:20.220 she passed away, the accounts of her mythical 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.420 figure attracted several scientists to unearth 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:24.940 her story and Sun's bones were exhumed. Our study 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:27.759 intends both to reveal true human nature of Zana 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.019 and grant her and her descendants remains the 00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:32.859 dignity they deserve. Yeah, it turns into a very 00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:35.660 sad story when you reframe all the stories about 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:42.539 her as she was a runaway slave. It's this isn't 00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:45.099 the first time that we've covered a topic like 00:21:45.099 --> 00:21:48.099 this on the podcast. There was the other one 00:21:48.099 --> 00:21:51.819 What was her name? We covered her very early 00:21:51.819 --> 00:21:55.000 on and she was a part. It's the one that I originally 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.579 said She was a part of like a traveling freak 00:21:57.579 --> 00:22:00.539 show. Yes I'm trying to remember her name, too 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:03.539 And she was fairly famous the same way and it 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:05.660 was exactly the same if you look into anything 00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:08.839 from the 1800s It was something really racist 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.240 probably. Yeah, it actually ended about exactly 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.079 the same, that she was like a slave from Africa 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.339 and they called her Bigfoot. Yep. But yeah, Chelsea, 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:20.799 any questions about that story? I think it's 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.519 pretty laid to rest in it, like, fairly open 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.099 in shot that... This is exactly what it was. 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:29.059 Yeah, it's a good episode. I like this story. 00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:31.440 It was pretty apparent though that even if it 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.799 was a Bigfoot, they're definitely abusing that 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.220 Bigfoot. But in the end, it just speaks to humanity. 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:40.380 No, she liked to swim in the river in winter 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.940 and to sleep outside all the time. Yeah, to dig 00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:45.319 a hole to sleep in outside. And be prodded by 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.980 the children. Yep, and was referred to as the 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:50.460 Boogeyman to scare the children. And in the end, 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:54.019 it just isn't humanity great kind of thing. Yeah, 00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:55.859 you like to think it was like a hundred years 00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:57.900 ago was different, but we're really still pretty 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:01.119 terrible. I would like to think we don't do things 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.640 like this anymore, but we're just doing different 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.680 horrible things now. And we just like kind of 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:08.819 pick different groups to differentiate ourselves 00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:11.359 from. Yeah. But that's probably enough introspection 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.099 for that. It's a fun Bigfoot story. Until you 00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:16.799 look into it even a little. Until you listen 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:23.039 to the whole episode. With that I have been Taylor 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.099 here with Chelsea. We are journey to the fringe. 00:23:25.099 --> 00:23:26.700 Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.660 week. Goodbye Thank you for listening to Journey 00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:33.019 to the Fringe. If you have liked what you have 00:23:33.019 --> 00:23:36.980 listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or 00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:39.779 follow depending on what venue you are listening 00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:42.619 to us through. Also, please, if possible, leave 00:23:42.619 --> 00:23:45.900 a five -star review as that really helps us in 00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:48.519 the algorithms. Should you wish to interact with 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.119 us, please check us out on your social media 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.160 of choice. I bet you we are there. And if you 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.220 really want to communicate with us and give us 00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:58.880 ideas for new episodes or tell us that were wrong 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.420 and terrible either way, please send us an email 00:24:01.420 --> 00:24:05.380 at journeytothefringe at gmail .com. For now, 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:06.880 I'll see you in the next episode.