From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
us on a Journey to the Fringe. Hello and welcome
to Journey to the Fringe. Finally getting to
what you've all been waiting for this whole time.
This is the top 10. These are the biggest assholes
that I personally have seen as we've been going
through all the different episodes that we've
done. We had 48 in total and these are the top
10. So I can understand. I've been waiting five
years for this. This is our magnum opus. So it's
all downhill from here. Anyhow, I hope you guys
still stick around after this just because there's
probably a good chance that people are just skipping
to the top 10. I think we should go over the
scoring system again. So we took every individual
that we did an episode on or Corporate entity
in some weird instances or cult entity. I guess
too. I should add that too. There's no rhyme
or reason to it really because some are not All
the major assholes you're looking for are though
But I also would like to hear if if we have missed
anybody in our rankings Please let us know who
you think should be here, but we scored everybody
on an asshole scale out of 50 This has five different
categories, each scored out of 10. Deception
and fabrication, which measures how much the
person knowingly invents, falsifies, or manipulates
evidence. Vibes, which is just how asshole the
person seems from us reviewing their information.
That was the most elegant way I've heard of you
putting it. Harm, we're assessing the degree
of damage they cause, psychological, financial,
social, or cultural. Grift, focusing on how shamelessly
they monetize their claims. And legacy, where
we're evaluating how lasting their influence
is, whether their nonsense still shapes UFO lore
or fringe culture today. And I think almost everybody
in my top 10 cracks what is 40 out of 50, the
Hall of Shame, the highest level, the... the
hall of fame for fringe topic assholes. Yes.
Now I think we should also clarify at this point
in the list that the top 10 is actually Taylor's
top 10 list. And we're comparing the other ones
to Taylor's because I'm just putting together
right now who is going to be in the top 10 and
I feel like there is one that I'm going to really
disagree with at the very least because I can
see one that hasn't been touched yet. Okay. That
I do not believe fits in the top 10. And how
our scoring works too, I... Yeah. There's some...
There's a few in the top 10 I don't think would
naturally fit in the top 10, but you'll understand
when we get to them how the scoring had to get
there. So to start off the top 10 I have with
a score of 39 so not quite that Hall of Fame
level But still pretty damn high Billy Meyer
still season 4 episode 59 61 and 63 Yeah, I didn't
have him in the top 10, but he probably should
be I have him ranked at 35 with a total score
35 He's at 17 on mine. Okay Meyer is a swiss
contact, oh you know what I could go for? Some
like swiss cheese right now. Contactee famous
for his photographs of alleged alien spacecraft
and prophecies about humanity's future. His achievement
is becoming one of the most iconic contactees
with his story still circulating decades later.
His asshole actions include staging fake photos,
some traced to household objects and models.
and aggressively defending them as real, exploiting
followers and monetizing his hoaxes through books
and strict copyright claims. And he did get more
harm than the average UFO person, I think because
of the whole cult side of his following with
Beam. I can see it. See, I think our major difference
to me is legacy because overall, I don't know
that the lay person would know anything about
him or be able to identify his teachings. potentially
his photos his photos used to be fairly actually
not mainstream but well -known I think and it's
also the I want to believe photo for x -files
potentially I put him fairly low though for that
I think there's other assholes on our list that
have a much higher legacy than Billy Mayer and
I think that's why he got so low that's fair
and I do think the whole legacy thing just scored
so high for me because of the cult aspect. So
he does have a very zealot following with some
people. Not a huge group, but the ones who do
follow him are kind of crazy. And it's funny
how I use legacy because on this one, for instance,
I'm using it as would the lay person know, but
on other ones I rank it differently for their
legacy. It's really, you know, just like, throwing
shit into the wind. Like, yeah, I don't know
if people actually know his name, but man, is
he impactful. Yeah. He did have a pretty crazy
story, though. And we actually have a really
hard time remembering Bill Meyer's name, too.
Yeah, we do. But when you say it, I know exactly
who he is. Yeah. So, yeah. legacy I could maybe
bump him up a little bit more but if I was to
put him in my own ranking of legacy I would score
him higher because he is higher on my asshole
list but if I'm thinking as a whole I put him
lower. Fair enough. Copilot has him at 12th on
their list at 40. Meyers scores high in Deception
and Legacy with his fabricated UFO photos in
Enduring Contact Delore. His grift - Oh, yeah,
and sorry, that whole thing of the patah talking
through him, it's just, it's gold. I will always
love if we ever do episodes where we go back
to the patah stuff. Oh my god, his like, what
was it, like a three -day journey where he was
taking photos of like a literal fucking book?
and passing them as photos from a fucking spaceship
is just off the hook insane. Anyhow, I did give
him a tenon deception if you wanted to know.
His grift is strong with books and followers,
and that was that whole thing too. Like you could
sign up to be like a person who like works for
the church, but you had to pay for it. That was
super weird. Yeah, and he does like actually
live off of like collections. Donations and grifting,
yeah. His vibes are middling. He was more eccentric
than toxic He's held back by moderate harm since
his hoaxes misled but didn't destroy lives Yeah,
I I would completely agree with that. Okay. Now
I think you're gonna have this next person hire
Chelsea, but at number nine I have Prince Andrew
whose name we know Andrew Mont - Something. Mountain
Batten. I don't know what the - Mount Batten
- We know him as regular person Andy or British
Andy from season 5 episode 100 and many, many
French minis in between. Originally from like
so many minis, eventually one episode. With likely
many more minis in the middle. Where do I have
him? I have him at... His total is 39, so he
rests at about 10 on my list actually, so he's
a tad lower. evading accountability. His legacy
is now defined less by royal service and more
by scandals, leaving him remembered as a symbol
of abuse of power and disgrace within the monarchy.
See the thing about regular person Andy is even
if you take Epstein out of the equation, it's
just the well -knowingness of this and how he
lied. It wouldn't change the person that he was.
Just due to the outrage of all of it, like really
brought it to the forefront. But he still would
have been a shitty person without Jeffrey Epstein.
And he's still that spoiled. He's pretentious,
yeah. He's got that arrogance about him and like
inept pretentiousness. He doesn't seem to understand
life itself. I don't know if that's everybody
within the royal family, but you get those vibes
from British Andy. Oh, absolutely, and I'm sure
there's a lot more people like that within the
royal family, and probably many more royal families.
They're just probably not as inept as he is.
And just the sheer, what would you even label
it as, cockiness of him to go and say he doesn't
sweat? And just like - I think it's ignorance.
Like, just, like - It is! People aren't going
to believe you you're going to sweat in this
interview you idiots And for him to just think
I'm gonna say this and they're all just gonna
accept this is just like it's next level Listen
to what mother tells them That's exactly it.
So I just he's a horrible person with or without
like what has been going on and After reading
the biography written about him. It's just he's
a shitty person before he met Jeffrey Epstein
It was just the circumstance that brought it
to light that is cursing life It doesn't mean
that it wasn't always there and I am gonna say
like I had a hard time with one in particular
category for him This is the lowest Number I
gave anybody in the top 10 of any category. He
got a four for grift It is because he was born
into sheer wealth and I just don't know how to
categorize that with grift Okay, my categories
kind of shift with who it is and here's a good
example as well as the one that we just talked
about Griff for me is in the words that he thinks
that he's using that are going to fool everybody
And they don't. It could also be the fact that
like he had his mom wrapped around his finger.
it seemed like yes and exactly he shouldn't have
like he's just been shuffled around because no
one in the royal family wants to fucking deal
with them but here he is getting kicked out of
his residence and he's like I still want my fucking
butler like not going to exist without a butler
I will be nude all times that will embarrass
the family so to me the grift is still high it
just needs to be looked a little bit different
which Yeah, and that was the whole thing. Like,
it's hard to categorize that with everybody else
who's making money off what they're doing, whereas
he's like, he's exploiting his position of power,
so there's not inherently a grift. Well, to me
it's a grift, but I know you're a little bit
more rigid on your categories, might have a flow,
but he got the lowest on mine in deception and
fabrication of all things, because I think he...
like the only one he's fooling is his fucking
self he's not fooling anybody else so i i think
he's fairly like not deceptive in fabricating
other than i did give him a six in deception
and fabrication so it's not like he excelled
in that yeah but he got a ten in vibes and he
got a ten in harm and a nine in legacy because
he has absolutely destroyed the british royal
family Oh yeah, 100%. But not completely for
some weird reason. I think he could do better
in absolutely bringing them down. And they know
it. They know it. Yeah. Copilot has British Andy
at 15th on their list with a 40. Oh, and sorry,
Chelsea, what did you score him? I can't remember
if you said. 39. No, hold on. Is that the right
guy? it's the right guy 39 okay and British Andy
with copilot is a solid 40 at 15th with an eight
nine nine seven seven i didn't hear any six sevens
nope we don't do those around here do we nope
don't have any of those okay Chelsea i'm very
curious where you have this next one on my list
okay this is at number eight and yeah i this
is my first 40 so this is like high level assholes
right now. This one's a little more of an extreme
good news international church from season three
episode 64. They're actually at I'm re -evaluating
my entire life choices right now for putting
them here. They're 15th on my list, and I do
not think they should be that low. This is the
Africa one, right? Yeah, this is the Kenyan.
Oh, I should read it. Mass exploitation and direct
harm leading to hundreds of deaths cementing
it as one of the most tragic cult cases in history
Yeah, and like at the time of that episode that
we did it was the second largest mass suicide
on record behind only the Oh, Jim Jones. What's
the name of his group? Heaven's Gate, right?
Heaven's Gate. Yeah. No, no, not Heaven's Gate.
That one was the comet Anyhow, it's the second
largest mass suicide by a group in history. Jonestown.
Jonestown, yeah. And it happened, like, without
many people ever hearing about it. I need to
redeem myself right now. Where this downfall
was getting it on my list here. is legacy. I
gave it low legacy because who's ever heard of
this? Fair, nobody remembers it. Everything else
is high. Yeah, and I gave it an 8 for deception
and fabrication. It probably could have been
a little higher. 6 for vibes, I don't know why.
I find cults hard to give vibes to. 10 for harm.
Like, you can't say anything below that, and
frankly it's kind of a little... I have a few
other 10s in harm, and it's hard to say they're
all at equal with this. If I had to say like
a level of 10, this is the highest 10. Like,
it's hundreds of people that die. Now that you're
saying that, I feel like all other categories
can't have harm at a 10. Yeah, I know. And I
didn't actually - A 9 for grift because that
guy made a ton of money off it, and I gave a
7 for legacy just because it is like second biggest
mass suicide ever. It is. And see, here's the
thing where we're differing again, is I'm thinking...
Nobody remembers the name. Nobody knows about
it. And that's the sad thing about something
like this. Especially it's Africa. So here in
North America... Yeah, it's anything going on
in Africa. There's like genocides going on in
Sudan right now. Yeah, this one was super sad.
Yeah, I think this needs to be actually higher
towards the top. definitely know that I'm looking
at. But I do stand by the legacy, unfortunately,
because I don't think anybody knows about it.
So sadly, while I think it does deserve to be
closer to the top, it doesn't because of that.
Legacy is a weird thing when we're talking about
fringe things and like what kind of legacy are
we talking about with this? The only thing it
can be is will this be remembered? And I do think
it'll be remembered just because it's on a top
10 list. Yeah, that's true. I think we actually
could use it. I'm gonna make a note here. I think
we could use an update on that one because it
probably... That's a fair point. It's probably
a lot more settled at this point. Yeah, that
is one that I didn't need to listen to because
I remember it pretty well. He was driving like
super nice cars and stuff. Oh yeah, he was loaded.
And like all the money came from the church too.
And like such, like good news international church.
Like maybe that's where the vibes didn't quite
hit for me because like when you just hear that
you're not gonna say like oh yeah, second largest
mass suicide. Sounds like a cult. And there were
like mass graves weren't there? Yeah. And I believe
they were finding people too who like were buried
alive too. I would have to go back and listen
to that. Oh god. Yeah. And Good News International
Church for Copilot came in fourth overall with
a 44. Only one point behind who came in first.
Interesting. Nine for deception and fabrication,
ten for vibes, ten for harm, eight for grift,
seven for legacy. Okay. I mean that seems fitting
for where it is on the list. Yeah. I just didn't
hit there with the numbers for me. Okay. Next
up on the list is the Fox Sisters. This is the
one. Number seven. Okay. Why do you have them
in the top 10? Let's talk about who they are,
I think. The Fox Sisters are credited with sparking
the spiritualist movement of the 19th century
through their spirit -wrapping seances. Their
achievement was cultural. They helped launch
a global fascination with mediumship and communication
with the dead. Their asshole moves were admitting
later in life that the raps were a hoax, revealing
that they had exploited grief and curiosity for
fame and profit. Despite this, their legacy endures
as the foundation of modern spiritualism. And
I think that's why, at the end, they ended up
so high for me. And it's just, I didn't know
where to dock marks for them. They are consistently
high. And sorry, Fox Sisters Season 3 Episode
24. I have them at, their total's 33 in points
for me. Okay, and we're not that far apart. I
got them at a 40. Okay, now they're definitely
not in my top 10 they're at 20 to me Someone
like HPB should be ranked much higher on the
asshole list and while they're not Essentially
the same I would consider them the same category
with like the spiritualist movement because i
agree with you on the forefront of that and i
feel like she was much more of an asshole though
they were at the forefront of the movement as
well even more than hpb so that does stand for
something I just find that her deception and
fabrication runs while they're both at a 10.
I find her deception and fabrication runs much,
much, much deeper than theirs. Okay, and I have
HPB and the Fox sisters at a nine for deception
and fabrication. I have a both of them. Okay.
I actually they're tied a lot of the way. They
both got sevens for harm. They both got eights
for grift and HPB got an eight for legacy, whereas
the Fox sisters got a nine. It's really just
harm I gave them a higher score for. What? Why?
I mean, that's a great question. I think they
had more direct harm on people, like giving them
hope for the. their loved ones coming back and
they are so fundamental to the seance movement
and this entire thing coming about that I think
they did a little more harm and I also didn't
know how I actually probably upgraded their marks
because they later in life sold their grift as
like oh that entire old life was a grift we're
gonna make money off of telling everybody about
it yeah so I think at the end of the day, I just
told you my scores. I don't think you disagreed
with anything I said there. No, I don't really
disagree, no. And they started the seance movement.
Like, it's got to be up there, like, significantly
for the legacy. No, you're right. And again,
it's my thought in my head is who... HPB, I just
feel like her legacy is so much more grandiose
because you see it in literally everything. Whereas
the Fox sisters like yes seance and it is a contain
grift. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, but you still wouldn't
have people still do seances to use. Yeah, and
you still wouldn't have that very popular moment
in like a call history without the Fox sisters,
so Maybe they do deserve to be higher But that
that's why I was shocked cuz I was like HPB should
be so much higher than the Fox sisters But they
are total and it is more intentional. I will
agree with that Yeah, they are total assholes
though. So I do agree with that So at this point
we're splitting hairs on how big of an asshole
we think each of them are But yes, they are total
assholes, because they absolutely lied, said
they were lying, then tried to profit off their
lie, and started - Yeah, it's like a second level
grift. It's super, like, next level. Like, I
grifted, and then I grift off of the fact that
I'm telling people about the grift. Yeah, but
yeah, this is the one that I was saying when
we started. I was curious why this one hasn't
come up yet. They're in the top 10 and it's solely
on the fact that they're ranking over HPB. Okay.
And just for reference, I have them 20 on my
list and I have, I swear to God, if I go over
this and HPB is higher than them. Yeah, I have
HPB at 13 and the Fox sisters are at 20. Okay.
Now Copilot has them at 18th with a 39 overall
legacy and deception of fabrication both being
nines and they're sandwiching sevens all the
way through the middle okay so kind of splitting
hairs between us there yeah yeah oh yeah absolutely
i'm very curious where you have this next person
chelsea at number six i have David Palaitis from
season four, episodes 34 and 36. Also where we
got our most controversial comments from. If
we were to rank comments that one would be number
one. We had some pretty pissed off, well it was
one pissed off person. One person who, actually
it might have been two. Definitely probably a
fan of David Palaitis looking for some missing
411 episodes. Politis is a former police officer
turned author of the Missing 411 series documenting
mysterious disappearances in national parks.
His achievement was creating a best -selling
brand that brought attention to unsolved cases.
His asshole factor lies in exploiting real tragedies
by framing them as paranormal mysteries, monetizing
grief through books, films, and conferences.
Yeah, and also not wanting to deal with any criticism
in the least. part or give any answers to anything
yeah except for like the new stuff where he says
it was a UFO i have him ranked at number four
on my list okay i have him overall at a 41 his
highest mark i gave was a 10 in vibes i never
used to think this but now whenever i hear him
i get the worst vibes from him and especially
hearing his story about his police career and
how He did a bunch of sketchy things but was
forced out by coercing celebrities into signing
autographs for him. Like the stupidest thing
ever too. Yeah. but like there's that whole thing
where he was acting as a john and he was super
good at getting prostitutes arrested it was oh
man if you haven't heard those episodes go listen
to those they're wild yeah yeah we also have
a lot of fun with it so don't mind the laughter
there will be laughter i don't know if you know
us or not Yeah, uh, he's definitely a legendary
asshole around these parts. Right from the beginning,
like this guy just didn't pick it up getting
into the missing 411 stuff. He can't take criticism
in the least bit about his work, present skewed
information about the cases that he does, the
grift is high, the deception and fabrication
is high, as you all know by now, the vibes are
high, the harm is on the higher side because
of the families that he's taking advantage of.
of their grieving families that he's taking advantage
of. His legacy to me, I didn't put him that high,
but I would actually put him higher up because
it is a really, really popular subject. And I
will admit myself that I like listening to them
because who doesn't like a mystery, even if he
is not doing proper research. At the end of the
day, he is a pretty good storyteller too. Which
is why he came on Coast to Coast so much and
why George Norrie loved having him on because
he didn't have to do anything Yeah, and George
Norrie is the perfect interviewer for him because
George Norrie does not fucking push at all And
yeah, I think we actually almost fully agree
because my lowest mark for him is legacy The
reason I gave him a low legacy, which is a seven
so it's still not bad is because this entire
411 community is entirely reliant on David Politis.
If he were to disappear, it would die away fairly
quickly. Yeah, but I do think that it's super
popular. So I don't know that it would die away,
I think. Though it takes a certain, you know
what's missing from this asshole list? Charisma.
It takes a certain charisma to get to a point
to be able to tell the story to bring people
in. So maybe it would die with them if it's not
someone that can make a story sound good. It's
an awkward word to use here, but he hasn't groomed
somebody to take it over and he hasn't built
up anybody else to like come into the 411 community.
He can't do a missing 411 con. which I mean like
rent out an event center and have like presenters.
No, David Wilcock would be outside it, but he
wouldn't be invited in. And the other tie with
the asshole, like he has ties to other assholes,
which is Dr. Malbel Ketchum, which he gets by.
And that's another strange part of him. He does
this missing 411, but then he's also a Bigfoot
guy. Yeah, and that's what I referenced in the
last episode. This is my highest Bigfoot guy.
Oh, that makes sense. I don't know if we technically
call him that, but yeah, I mean, because he tried
to tie everything to Bigfoot. And the Melba connection,
I have him as my highest Bigfoot guy, but I also
can see why you wouldn't consider him. His claim
to fame is not Bigfoot. Yep. And I also just
want to put right here, season four, episode
34 and 36. Yes. Fox sisters, season three, episode
24. We can just delete that if we did it. But
if not, thank you for doing that. I don't think
Copilot had him very high. No, they didn't have
him high at all. They have him 24th on their
list with a 36. Interesting. A seven, six, seven,
eight, eight. And let's see. Six, seven. Hey,
there it is. There is one. No coincidence here.
Maybe that's why they scored him so low. Because
six, seven. So, Pallaitis scores high in grift.
I think so. Pallaitis scores high in grift and
legacy with his missing 4 -in -1 brand. His deception
is moderate. He implies mystery rather than fabricating
outright. See, I think that is worse for deception.
His vibes are middling, seen as opportunistic
but not universally disliked. He's held back
because his harm is indirect, exploiting grief
but not causing cult -level damage. And that
is true. He hasn't formed a cult either. Also,
and just another aside with him, he doesn't sell
his books on Amazon and they're just ridiculously
expensive to get, however it is that he was selling
them. It's true, but they're like even more ridiculously
high through Amazon, so I'm not sure why he doesn't
just fucking sell them on Amazon. I know. To
like take care of that, because he said it on
every fucking thing, don't buy them through Amazon.
Yeah, and that's the weird thing, like he has
to explain it in the interview, so you gotta
go, and you can't use Amazon. Just fucking sell
them on Amazon. Everything is on Amazon these
days. Okay Chelsea, at number five on my list
I have the Falun Gong. Season four, episode six,
eight, and ten. So the Falun Gong is a spiritual
movement blending Qigong with apocalyptic teachings.
Its achievement is building a global following
and media presence. Its asshole factor lies in
exploiting followers, spreading pseudoscience,
and fostering cult -like loyalty that has caused
family estrangement and health risks. And this
is going to be a polarizing one because depending
on like what are you getting your information
from is going to greatly change how you view
this group. I put them at a 10 out of 10 for
vibes. I'm sorry, I gave them a 42 overall. Where'd
they fall for you, Chelsea? 30. Which puts them?
14. Okay. Not too too far off. No, but yeah.
Not top 10 though. I know and this, I think the
big difference is they're a 10 out of 10 for
grift. Like the fact that they, when you hear
the deceptive practices they use. Oh yeah, I
got them 10 out of 10 for grift. Yeah. For Shen
Yong, experienced China before communism. The
fact that they owned the epoch times, the fact
that so many people have died because of the
practices, and the whole deceptive story of why
they had to leave China, and still there is mystery
with that, is incredibly interesting. I think
I scored them after Good News International Church
because I gave them an 8 for harm, and it's just
like, after you put a death cult at 10, it's
hard to say Falun Gong is a 10. Yeah, that's
true though. So they got an 8. They got a 10
for vibes. They give me really creepy vibes,
especially with Shen Yun. Yeah, it's Shen Yun
that does it for me. 8 out of 10 for deception
and fabrication, 6 out of 10 for legacy. Yeah,
I did the same. I don't know where we're differing.
I got 8, 10, 8, 10, 6. I have them at deception
a little bit lower. I have them at a 6. Don't
know why though. I can't tell you the reasoning
behind that. I think the reason I put their legacy
at a six, despite the fact that they own so much,
it is still reliant on one person. And if the
cult leader dies, I don't know if it would last.
Yeah, I have the same for legacy. So I think
it's my deception and fabrication that I scored
a little lower on. But that's another one where
I think about it. I'm not sure why I marked them
so low on that because it's not like they're
like incredibly honest about some of the things
yeah and copilot gave them a 41 overall and put
them a 10th on their list with eights across
the board except in harm where they got a nine
and yeah they definitely harm a lot of people
and they have compounds where they're training
their dancers but no there's not a lot of evidence
that they've directly killed anybody but their
their medical practices are pretty harmful Yeah,
and they hide a lot of stuff, so... Who knows?
And yeah, we just don't quite... I don't think
we'll ever fully know what damage they've done,
and the fact that they're involved with basically
Trump at the highest of levels is very disturbing.
Wait, how? Oh, you'd have to go back and listen,
but like, he's done speeches at a ton of their
events. Really? Oh yeah. I mean, that doesn't
surprise me if they're funding him. Okay, I'm
gonna go back to season four, episode six, eight,
and ten. Why not seven? And nine. Those are the
fringy minis. Oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense
when you say it that way. And sorry, I'll just
take a quick look to see if it gave me a reason
for why it put Falun Gong where it did. No, it
looks like they didn't. That's okay, though.
We'll just move on to the next one. Okay, Chelsea,
at number four, and I don't think these guys
are gonna be where they are for you, I have the
Moonies from season three, episode 11. See, and
the Moonies? I can't remember them at all. Let
me read the Moonies. Founded by Sun Myung Moon,
the church became one of the largest cult movements
of the 20th century. Its achievement was global
expansion and political influence. Its asshole
actions are industrial scale, coercive labor,
financial exploitation, arranged marriages and
lifelong harm to members, making it one of the
worst offenders. Now, I do not remember the Moonies.
I tried to get through the Japan episodes in
our little break. I just did not have enough
time. The Japan episodes are really in -depth
episodes. Lots of information in them what I
listened to the moonies didn't come up at least
not Explicitly to the fact that I knew there
are the moonies. So to this day I'm still confused
about the moonies who they are and what they
do Even though we talk about them a lot and make
reference to them. I'm very confused So they
make a lot of money by recruiting people to the
church and getting them to sign over their estate
once they die They also marry people off in mass
marriages that are super weird, but they have
huge grifts, and they... I gave them a 9 out
of 10 just because I think the Falun Gong ends
up... They have more grift going on currently,
because the Unification Church is slowly getting
destroyed, at least in Japan, because of the
rural reason we did those episodes on them. Somebody
assassinated Shinzo Abe, the previous Prime Minister
of Japan, due to Shinzo Abe's ties. to the Moonies
and how they were funding his government for
a long time. The assassin's mother was recruited
and exploited by the Moonies and took every penny
of their family's money. And he's like, I'm going
to do something about it. He made a shotgun at
home and he shot the former prime minister of
Japan. See, and that does sound vaguely familiar
now. And I didn't get to that point in the Japan
episodes because there's just so much Japan in
those episodes. Yeah. Total assholes and how
are they ranking for you for? Five top five their
fourth. So top five. Yeah, and I could see it
eight eight eight nine nine Yeah, and I do like
this is the thing about taking an average and
they got the exact same score it's just okay
they didn't get any tens whereas like the legacy
of the Falun Gong got a six but like the fact
that your cult is associated with the death of
a prime minister you get high legacy for that
oh that's true could see that and i mean Falun
Gong has a Shen Yun but the Moonies took like
over houses and yeah and so yeah Anyhow, I didn't
go and relisten to that one, that one was all
based on memory, and I think we had a fairly
recent - oh, and they do also own a newspaper
too. That's the weird thing about cults that
we cover, they end up getting newspapers, they
own the Washington Times, not the Washington
Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos. We did just
do a mini with the moonies Yeah, about how the
heiress to the moonies is best friends with like
the first lady of Japan Yeah, previous first
lady of Japan and they're like what I just like
to give my friend money. I'm not bribing her
And I do think Yes, the Moonies are number one
on Copilot's list with a 45 overall. They got
an 8, 9, 10, 9, 9. I am shocked at that one,
actually. Do they have a reasoning? No, they
do not. Okay. The one I wanted the most. Yeah.
One sec, I'll ask really quick. They gave 8 out
of 10 for deception, the movement was built on
fabricated theology, claims of Moon's divine
status. Oh yeah, and that's that super interesting
thing, like he was in concentration camps in
Korea, and like, he... There's some really weird
Jesus vibes from this group, from what I remember.
They have promises of salvation through mass
marriages. The deception is systemic. Followers
were told they were part of a world -saving mission
while the leadership manipulated doctrine for
control. Vibes, 9 out of 10, inside the community.
Vibes were toxic. Members were pressured into
obedience. Marriages were arranged without consent
and dissenters were ostracized. Moon himself
was seen as authoritarian and group's reputation
in broader society was deeply negative. Harm,
10 out of 10. Harm is extreme, families torn
apart, financial ruin from donations, psychological
damage from indoctrination and exploitation of
vulnerable recruits. Grift, 9 out of 10. Church
aggressively monetized faith, extracting money
through tithes, businesses, and political influence.
And Legacy, 9. The Unification Church remains
infamous decades later, with its influence still
left in politics, business, and fringe religious
movements. Its legacy is enduring both as a cautionary
tale of a cult, exploiting, and as a continuing
organization. Okay, fair enough. I'll accept
it. It seems to remember it more than us. Yeah,
that's why I'm just gonna accept that. Okay,
at number three on this list, I have... The Warrens,
season one, episode 23, and many references thrown
out throughout our time with them. Yes, I have
them in the top ten. I have them at nine, but
how they came to be at nine, I'm not exactly
sure. Well, I have them lower on harm. Oh, let's
let's read about them. Okay, Ed and Lorraine
Warren became famous as paranormal investigators
inspiring the Conjuring films. Their achievement
was building a brand around haunting and demonology,
cementing themselves in pop culture. Their asshole
factors lie in fabricating evidence, exploiting
families' tragedies, and monetizing fear through
books, lectures, and the Recult Museum. I just,
there was nowhere really to take away marks for
them. I gave them 9 out of 10 for deception,
9 out of 10 for vibes, 7 out of 10 for harm,
9 out of 10 for grift, 10 out of 10 for legacy.
Because like, Their name is money making in Hollywood.
Yes. So they got a 45 over. So they got a 44
overall. You know, I say 10 for everything, but
the deception and fabrication is definitely a
10. You would think that I didn't give them a
10. I only gave three 10s in deception and fabrication
overall, and they're not one of them. They got
a nine though. Yeah, they're just, they're definitely
top 10 material because they're just such big
ass. Especially Ed. I think he was a bigger asshole
than Lorraine. I think she just kind of followed
along with him. And they just took everybody's
money. They did. And like anybody who was actually
involved in these stories, they're left with
like trauma from it and no money. Despite the
fact that the Warrens are telling everybody that
yeah, they got their money, don't worry. the
grift was a 15 with them and they would just
show up where they weren't invited just to kind
of get their name attached to shit and I told
this was where are they from the Warrens or season
one episode 23, so they were there early on They
might have been one of the first assholes we
did actually No, I don't think they were the
first but they were up there because they were
season one Yeah, it was right around the time
that we were doing HPB HPB was episode 16. So
like few months before that. Yeah, I think we
did the Who else? Alistair Crowley came before
that and Did we get to Edgar Cayce before? No,
we didn't know because Edgar Cayce came with
Wilcox season two Yeah, and the Warrens I mean
the grift is high the asshole vibes are high
the harm I don't have as high but they are definitely
exploiting people for stories and not paying
them and like they inserted themselves in that
that self -defense lawsuit that we covered at
halloween this year where they just put themselves
in there like yeah demons did it you you should
just run off that get that defense going so we
can write a novel on it legacy high i just remember
from them ed like going up to people and being
like your house is haunted i'm gonna draw it
and trying to sell people the drawing of them
And like they just randomly show up like the
haunted doll these different haunted houses Possessions
they show up everywhere with completely just
like we'll make this story up so everybody can
make money off But it's really just us Co -pilot
has put the Warrens at number 14 overall with
a 40 and straight eights right across what overall
that is 14th overall with okay, okay I think
they're definitely top 10 material co -pilot.
Oh, yeah. The legacy is just so much with them.
Oh, yeah, it is. Legacy and grift. Like, there's
not many people beating them in either of those
categories. Yeah. Weirdly enough, though, I do
think the Warrens have a bigger name outside
of fringe communities due to Hollywood. Yes,
absolutely. They're probably of our list the
most... recognizable, I would go on to say yes
he's probably the most recognizable actually
but outside of that they're probably the most
I'm thinking yeah yeah yeah I'm looking at the
list really quick here maybe Tom DeLong but even
then you have to be a very specific age group
to think that yeah okay now for number two With
an overall score of 45, I think we might have
a bit of a fight on this one. I don't know. Richard
Doty. I think we might. Season two, episode 17
and 18. You know what? I can't, seeing who now
is your number one, I can't argue. He is my number
one. If we can even believe any of this. Dodie's
notoriety comes from his role as an Air Force
intelligence officer involved in UFO disinformation
campaigns. His most notable achievement, if it
can be called that, was shaping the Paul Bennewitz
case, which became a cornerstone of UFO conspiracy
lore. His asshole action was deliberately feeding
false information to Benowitz, driving him into
paranoia and psychological collapse. Doty's manipulation
caused immense harm and left a lasting scar on
UFO communities. And I will say, Doty got the
most hands of anybody on my list. He's all 10s
for me. I couldn't bring myself to do anything
other than all 10s for Richard Doe because I
knew he had to be number one. And I just have
to squeeze in here real quick because these are
episodes that go down in Journey to the French
History, season 2, episode 17, 18. Yes, and that
isn't even taking into account the fact that
he very likely wrote the Serpo papers. That's
the general consensus. He also comes up in Skinny
Bob. Yeah, and just like up in a lot more episodes
if you're just gonna put on a random UFO documentary
There's a pretty good shot. He's in it. It's
true as Not as like on him like Richard Doty
as a UFO as an expert Weighing in on things telling
you whether or not you should be taken seriously.
How the fuck did he get there? I don't know Obviously
like no holds barred. He's tens all over the
bar for me He's a 15 out of 10 on vibes for asshole
I mean, he probably shouldn't be ranked as high
for Herm, but I couldn't not give him a 10 for
everything. See, I gave him a 9 out of 10 for
vibes, and I will tell you it is for two factors.
He is the most unassuming man. Like, when he's
just sitting there, he looks like he's sitting
there waiting for a bus. Like, wants to just
tell a story to everybody around him. Absolutely.
Two, I couldn't give him ten for vibes because
so many people work with him and are willing
to have him as an expert. But why does that dock
him vibes? Then to me, it's the history that
I know that just makes his face so punchable
to me. Yeah. And then I had to give him a six
for grift because I don't think he's making that
much money off it. Most of the stuff he's done,
he did it for free. No, he's got a pension. He
worked for the government. Oh, that's true. This
is a side hustle. And it's not like he's wearing
swag when he's in these. He's dressed like an
old man. Can you imagine if he had, like, grills
and shit? He has a really nice watch. I don't
know, to me he had to be number one, hence all
the comments. But like, he doesn't write books,
he doesn't do his own lectures, he only does
interviews it seems like when he's asked to do
it. So I just, I couldn't say he's a heavy grifter
compared to what I end up with at number one.
It's true though, because he's a guy, he strikes
me now as just someone that shows up when he's
asked to. Yeah. Right? Cause that's what the
military did. They're like, you gotta do this.
And he was like, okay. And now they're like -
And he just likes to write stuff. Like for free.
He released the Serpo papers. We need an expert.
And he's like, okay. Okay. I'll be there. You
can count on me. Maybe he's just a reliable guy.
Retirement is so boring. Yeah. I hate him. I
hate that guy. He sucks. He's the number one
asshole Copilot has Dodie and like I said the
episode he's in he's in many more than just that
like he is all over They have him at number eight
with a nine nine nine six eight six being his
lowest in grift Okay, so they have him top ten
and I can live with that Yeah, okay So Dodie
for copilot scored extremely high on deception
and harm because he knowingly fed disinformation
to Paul Benowitz contributing to Benowitz's psychological
collapse and seeding toxic myths and UFO lore.
His vibes are near the bottom, he's widely perceived
as manipulative, duplicitous, and willing to
throw allies under the bus to advance an agenda.
He's held back slightly by only moderate grift,
but his legacy remains strong as a cautionary
tale of institutional deceit. I think they're
right on par with that. Something I would add
to it is he went to very, very great lengths
to - Oh yeah, nobody came anywhere near that
level of lengths. Yep. Like he set up fake ventilation
on the middle of nowhere. Yeah, to show that
it was an underground base. And he was drugging
him. Yes! I can't remember exactly where that
came in, but Benowitz was definitely being drugged.
And between him and Bill Moore, who knows? And
John Lear. Oh man, so crazy. I agree with them
on grift. I agree with you on Griff, but I'm
not bringing him down. Yeah, there's another
point I had to make, but I can't remember. That's
okay. And it might come up because who I put
at number one has used Richard Doty in the past
for documentary purposes. Oh yeah, that's what
I was gonna say. Because they said that he's
so widely renowned as being like, discredited
because of this, yet everyone's using him for
his source. Okay, continue. So at number one,
the biggest asshole we have ever covered is Richard
Greer, season four, episode 99 and 101. Stephen
Greer. Dr. Stephen Greer, yes. Yes, you said
Richard Greer. Oh, did I? Okay, Dr. Stephen Greer,
season four, episode 99 and 101. Sorry, I have
Richard Doty still highlighted for some reason
on my page. I know that's where you came up with
it. Yeah. Okay, I can argue with it. I can see
they're tight. I have him at number three. Okay,
since sorry, who's your two? Bill Moore. Bill
Moore, right. Okay. You know what? I'm looking
at this and I think my top ten could use some
tweaking. And yeah, I don't know. Maybe we revisit
our top ten in the future and see if the scoring
changes. but I think I'm happy with it. But let's
go through Richard. Let's go through Dr. Steven
Greer, which you need to emphasize the doctor
despite the fact it has nothing to do with what
he's actually doing. Oh, everybody does. As a
matter of fact, Wilcock has been plugging him
the last little bit and referring to his work,
and the doctor has definitely emphasized every
time that Wilcock is talking about him. And I
just could not put him at the same level of deception
and fabrication as Dodie. Dodie went to such
lengths to deceive, whereas Dr. Greer is a little
more lazy with his deception. like whenever you
hear him talk if you just kind of think about
it for a little while like give it five minutes
sit on it you'll see it's full of shit yeah like
oh man so you got a nine out of ten he has the
creepiest vibes in my mind oh so creepy 10 out
of 10 oh yeah 10 out of 10 100%. I gave him a
9 out of 10 for harm. A lot of the stuff that
he's been putting out there, I think, is doing
harm to the UFO community. He lies a ton so that
you can never actually tell what's going on,
and he puts himself front and center in everything.
And he will throw people under the bus if they
don't agree with him. Not to mention that if
he thinks that you offer, like, the slightest
bit of anything to him, he's just kinda... Yeah!
He brought Edgar Mitchell into this whole thing.
Yeah, but like anyone if he even saw you at a
dinner party and you offer him anything at all
He will start using your name yet where you have
to address it in a letter Where you say you have
mistaken agreement for my police season for episode
99 101 He wasn't covered that long ago and then
we did cover him again in that UFO disclosure
episode Which I don't know off the top of my
head And I do think there will be at some time
in the future a follow -up on Greer, because,
like, he's prolific in his work. Dr. Greer is
best known for founding the Disclosure Project
and popularizing CE5 protocols, which claim to
allow humans to initiate contact with extraterrestrials.
His most notable achievement is bringing UFO
discourse into mainstream media and government
hearings, positioning himself as a central figure
in disclosure. His biggest asshole move is monetizing
these practices, charging steep fees for retreats
and contact experiences that rely on unverifiable
claims, effectively exploiting believers while
presenting speculation as fact. Yeah, I don't
think anybody alive in the UFO community today
is a bigger grifter than Stephen Greer with his
CE5 protocol events. I don't know about that.
He's charging tens of thousands of dollars. per
person to go to these, and they just pretend
to see things in the sky, and apparently sometimes,
allegedly sometimes, they hire helpers to make
things happen in the sky. Yeah, that's true,
but I think there's still some pretty - like
David Wilcock to me is a similar level of grifter.
Yes, but he doesn't have access to the same amount
of monetization ability. It's because of the
doctor. Yeah, it really is. But like, and - David
Wilcox in a position where he's sucking up to
the doctor, where this doctor Steven Greer is
at the apex of all this. And the only thing I
gave his lowest marks an eight in legacy for
me. He just, I don't know if he's going to be
necessarily remembered for anything or have moved
anything in a particular direction where you
can say his name's directly attached to it or
something he brought forward is going to be important
in the UFO community. True. I would a hundred
percent agree with that. but he's incredibly
deceptive with everything he is everywhere and
he really likes to put his name along with disclosure
but funny enough cannot get along with anybody
else in the disclosure movement he's one of those
personalities though where he's like so polarizing
like people actually i think you either like
them or you don't and i think some people might
just be going along with it because of like the
doctor and the yeah He's deceptive with it. The
clout that comes along with his name for whatever
fucking reason, I don't know what it is. It's
probably the doctor. It's important. Yeah, oh
yeah, for sure. There's a reason he hasn't dropped
it, despite the fact that it has nothing to do
with what he's doing. Yeah. And the funny thing
is, like, he always talks about how he's bringing
this all forward and it's so important for the
message, but everything is about him. Oh, listening
to him talk is just, like, it's insanity, honestly.
Yeah, so... Copilot has him at not that high
at all, he's 17th on their list at 39, with 87798.
So like fairly high across the board, just not
like standing out anyway. Yeah, and co -pilot
did favor cults most the top is cults and weirdly
enough Corey good that one was weird We both
weren't Corey good fairly low I want to give
you my top ten and I would redo it But I'm just
gonna give you my actual list top ten not what
I would redo it as okay as it stands Richard
Doty number one Bill Moore number two Stephen
Greer number three David polites number four
John Lear number five Preston Nichols number
six, Montauk. Stan Romanuk came at number seven.
Seven. Number eight I have Rick Dyer. I have
at nine the Warrens and regular person Andy at
number ten. Okay and co -pilot at number one
they have the Moonies. At number two they have
Corey Good. At number three they have Romana
Dadula. At four they have good news international
church at number five they have stan romanek
at seven at six sorry i keep looking because
it's the the numbers don't quite i know with
the numbers on the left i know yeah at number
six they have alistair crowley at number eight
no at number seven they have pinkertons at number
eight they have richard doty at number nine they
have hpb and number 10 finishing off their top
10 is the phalangong interesting list Yeah, and
that was a long winding journey and I am very
curious what you guys, the listeners, think of
this. Yeah, who do you guys have at number one?
Who do you have at number one? Who were we way
off on? And who did we miss? I really want to
know. Cuz I know I've missed a few people but
I think I got everybody for the most part I know
one that we're missing that I don't disagree
him not being on here is John keel because we
haven't actually Covered John keel John keel
is on here. What? Yeah. Really? Yeah No, oh did
we not okay damn but we didn't actually episodes
on John keel. We didn't actually cover John keel
though Okay. Right, we just covered the one or
two books. Yeah. So if you wanted to be technical,
you could say John Keel, but we have an access
to him. Copilot has him on their list. That's
why it's been messed up. Okay. Yeah, I don't
disagree with not having him on there. Okay.
And as we talked about prior to the list, we
took out the corporations just because we thought
that would be really weird for the most part.
Like we couldn't include Chevron or that law
firm in Panama or Boeing. because it's just an
inherently different kind of assholeness. And
I think we could agree that corporations are
just overall a number one on the asshole scale.
Yeah. So yeah, you can't do that. Yeah, you can't.
Anyhow, that's been a long going. So I think
we just made it two episodes. Yeah. But here
we are, end of January or February. Who knows?
Who knows when it is now? What even time is this?
Yes. With that, I have been Taylor, here with
Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank
you all for listening and we'll see you next
week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey
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