From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
us on a Journey to the Fringe. Oh, yeah, at least.
Maybe more. Yeah, I mean, it's probably our life's
work right here. It is. Oh, no. So soon. And
I may have just put too much pressure on us for
this one. But here's what we got, guys. We've
decided we've covered so many individuals that
we needed to just kind of like put a list together
and see how they stack up to each other to see
who is the biggest asshole that we cover. Now,
we have come up with a scoring system. We have
each done our own list, ranking everybody. We
are going to go through my list from the bottom
to the top, everybody that we've done episodes
on, and we've also done a neutral AI list. To
that, we can kind of see if we're doing what's
a reasonable interpretation, or at least what
other people might think when they're looking
at this kind of list. Yeah, at least AI. At least
AI. A perfectly normal human being. Yeah. I don't
think we captured everybody that we could have
put on this list. We captured most. There's quite
a few people who could have made the list, but
they're going to get their own episode at some
point in the future. Also, corporations didn't
make the list, broadly speaking. Yes, but we
actually also talked about it kind of being its
own thing. Yeah, we also know that they all scored
a perfect 50, every single one of them. Yeah,
especially Chevron. Especially all of them. But
we've got a list of 49 to go through still with
that said. We're gonna start from the bottom
and work our way up. This is gonna be a several
episode thing, so strap yourselves in for it.
Get ready, everybody. This score is out of 50,
with 5 categories that got scored out of 10.
First category is Deception and Fabrication,
which measures how much the person knowingly
invents, falsifies, or manipulates evidence with
a high score, indicating outright hoaxes, admitted
fabrications, staged photos, fake documents,
and a low score with speculative storytelling
exaggerations or sincere but misguided beliefs.
Next we have Harm, assesses the degree of damage
they cause, psychological, financial, or cultural.
With a high score, there's deaths, ruined lives,
or severe paranoia or abuse. Low scores, they're
mostly harmless for entertainment or folklore
with little real -world damage. Next is Grift,
which focuses on how shamelessly they monetize
their claims. High scores, aggressive pipelines
of books, courses, and merch, paywalls, or scams.
A low score, minimal monetization, occasional
publishing or appearances. Legacy evaluates how
lasting their influence is, whether their nonsense
still shapes UFO lore or fringe culture today.
With a high score, myths that endure for decades
inspire movements or shape pop culture. Low scores
are short -lived notoriety, forgotten figures,
And the last one, which we kind of added on,
not last minute, but later on, is vibes. It's
just, do they give off asshole vibes? Yeah. And
I don't think I need to give any more for that
one. I think that's simple enough. Vibes are
pretty much self -explanatory. But again, somebody
who gives off asshole vibes might not be that
high on the list because maybe they're not actually
doing asshole things, but they seem like assholes.
Yeah. With these all combined, we get a score
out of 50. If it's below 20, I think consensus
is that they might actually not be an asshole.
If it's 20 to 29, their French storytellers or
pranksters getting into asshole territory may
be so questionable. 30 to 39, classic grifters
and hoaxers who definitely are assholes, and
at the highest, probably in our Hall of Fame
at that point, 40 to 50. Now, Chelsea, are you
ready to get going with this thing? I'm ready
to go. I'm excited. And I will say we would love
to hear from everybody who listens how you would
rank these individuals. Yeah. If you think that
we've ranked somebody too high or too low, or
if you think that we've omitted somebody that
should have been on this list, please let us
know. Yeah. Love to hear it. I think we can do
this annually with people added to the list.
And I said 49. It's only 48. I had to do a change
there. Bottom of my list, Paul Benowitz, who
makes many appearances, first season 2 episode
17, also season 3 episode 46, and also the John
Lear episodes, but I forgot to list where that
took place. Benowitz was, I think he was an engineer
actually, who believed he was intersep - and
I say that without having listened to that episode,
so don't hold too much weight in what I just
said there. He believed he was intercepting alien
signals near Kirtland Air Force Base, his most
notable achiev - was inadvertently sparking one
of the most influential UFO conspiracy threads
of the 1980s. His biggest asshole actions are
complicated. He spread paranoia through his claims
but he was also a victim of government disinformation
which drove him into psychological collapse.
He got an overall score of five from me. and
it's basically he got a one right across the
board. I don't think he was deceiving anybody,
and at most you can see he was naive, but even
the amount of government force put against him,
I don't think you can even say he was naive.
I don't get bad vibes. If anything, he might
just be a guy who you get I need to bully him
vibes from, because apparently multiple people
that we've covered have felt that from him, which
is anti -asshole. Pretty much all the harm he
did was to himself. I don't think he made any
money, and you might score slightly higher in
legacy just because Dulce's still out there,
but I don't think you can... Put that legacy
on him either. I think that's going to come much
higher on the list He's not the bottom of my
list actually because I have a few people I was
unable to fill out which we'll discuss in a little
bit when the rankings come out We'll compare
them with taylor, but he's not the lowest on
my list And I agree with everything you're saying
where I gave him points was deception and fabrication
not through any fault of his own obviously and
harm I did do a little bit because Paul Benowitz
did write a book with all the disinformation
that he was being fed. That disinformation is
out in the world like Dulce and stuff like that,
mostly sparking from that book that he put out
which was fed to him by other people. So that's
where he got points with me because I feel like
there was a little bit of harm with that done.
I do know people who do refer back to stuff like
that as proof that stuff like that exists. That's
where he gets all his points from me. That's
why he ranked not the lowest on my list because
I did give him a few points for harm and deception
and fabrication. Okay, AI, he is third from the
bottom of their list with a score of 25. 25?
Yeah. Where'd he get his points from with AI?
Did they use the same scale? Yeah. Copilot says
that Benoit scores high in Harm and Legacy because
his paranoia seeded UFO lore and ended tragically,
but his deception and vibes are low. He wasn't
malicious, just misled. His grift is minimal
since he didn't profit. He's held back because
he was more of a victim than a perpetrator. And
I do get where they're coming from on that, but
I'm going to attribute those scores somewhere
else that we're going to see way later on in
this class. Yeah. Okay. I'll agree with how they
gave the scoring. I just don't think he scores
that high. However, maybe I didn't give them
enough. for the information that he put out into
the world based on what he was being fed by government
agents. So I think we're all going to have a
different approach to this list. So I think it's
pretty straightforward on that. I just don't
think he's an asshole because of it. No, I agree.
And that's why I attribute it elsewhere. Next
up on my list at forty seven is Edgar Casey showing
up in season two. episodes 22, 23, and 24, and
by extension, several episodes after that if
you want to believe some people. Also known as
the Sleeping Prophet, became famous for his trance
readings on health, spirituality, and prophecy.
His achievement was building a massive following
in founding institutions that still exist today.
His asshole factor lies in exploiting followers
with unverifiable medical and spiritual claims,
encouraging people to substitute his readings
for evidence -based practices. The highest he
scored in, for me, was Legacy. And I should say,
before we get too far, I gave him a 9. I don't
think he really was trying to deceive people.
I don't think so either. I gave him very low
vibes, but also I think we're gonna run into
this with people pre -video, that they're gonna
have different vibe scoring than everybody else.
Oh, I didn't even think about that. I think he
did have some harm just with putting out psychic
readings that we're never gonna really know for
sure if he harmed anyone, which gave him a 2.
I gave him a two because he was accepting some
payment I forget for sure but I think he was
accepting some payments for his readings and
he did end up with an Institute so I think he
got some money from somewhere and at the end
of the day he did get a three in legacy because
I do think he's probably if you're gonna name
profits the sleeping profits gonna be high on
that list although it's something that has really
fallen off I have the same score I had him high
in legacy over anything i don't think that he
was purposely deceiving or fabricating or anything
vibes are zero harm i agree with you actually
i might put him up on harm maybe maybe a 0 .5
because you don't really know Because of the
times, I guess, there is no Reddit to be like
Edgar Cayce reading Gone Wrong. I know. And really,
the people that talk about him are people who
love him. There's not a lot of Cayce detractors
out there. So I don't think you're ever going
to know that. Yeah, I think it's just a time
where, you know, it's just... I don't know. You
see so much hate. He's very low on my list. He's
tied with Ben Woods. And surprisingly, he is
27th on the co -pilot's list. I love that they
took the rankings so seriously because I like
start with three and go 11, 13, 14 for totals
and they start out at 25. Nobody is not an asshole
that we've covered in its co -pilot's mind. Edgar
Casey is 27th on the list with a 35. Wow. He
is a certified asshole according to Co -Pilot.
He scores high in Legacy for shaping New Age
Prophecy. I get that. I just don't think New
Age Prophecy is that big and I think we have
bigger names in New Age Prophecy that we're going
to talk about later. I agree with that, yeah.
His deception is moderate. Visions and readings
were unverifiable. His grift was steady, monetizing
through followers. His vibes were middling, seen
as kindly but misleading. He's held back by a
moderate harm, since his influence was cultural
rather than destructive. I don't know that I
agree with that, yeah. Next up on my list is
John Zegris, who is also the man from Torrid.
He comes from Season 2, Episode 39. Okay, what
ranking do you have him? I have him 46. Mine's
a 27. Really? Yeah, because I have him at a 10
for deception and fabrication. I guess true enough.
I just didn't think it was that big a deception.
He was saying he came from a country that didn't
exist. Oh we need to read what he is, hold on.
John Zegras is the alleged man from Torrid, a
supposed traveller from a non -existent country.
His achievement was inspiring one of the most
enduring urban legends of anomalous identity.
His asshole actions are minimal, fabricating
a story that misled audiences but with little
exploitation or harm beyond myth making. Yeah.
I gave him a 10 overall. He's 46th on my list.
He got two across the board. Yeah, he deceives.
Yeah, he's got weird vibes, especially when you're
reading the story. I gave him a two just because,
I don't know, maybe there's harm in the story.
I don't know. Probably more than the Benoist
story. And that's whenever I have a one, I have
to compare anything that's low, it compares to
that. and I think it wasn't quite there. There
has to be some sort of grift attached to this.
I don't know what it is, but I gave them a two
there. And I gave it a two for legacy just because
it's a story that comes up, but it doesn't buttress
anybody's arguments for anything. Yes. Yes. Like
that we're gonna get later on. Yeah, so I gave
him ten for deception because it's obviously
made up. I gave him an eight for vibes because
who makes up a story like that? Harm? Low. Three.
Grift? Four because like he's gone on radio shows
and stuff like that and then legacies too because
exactly like who goes back to this. I'm not sure
if John Zegras actually exists so that is why
it's so low. Right, where did he come from? I
can't remember. That's another one I didn't listen
to. I know, I had to go back and listen to it.
So many assholes, so little time. And this one
actually, Copilot matched. John Zegris got a
Is 46 on their list, although with a 26. Ooh!
This is the first one we've even come close to.
And I feel like it'll be very few and far in
between. Oh no! It didn't give me the reasoning
on this one. So we'll never know for sure. But
the guy's an asshole. Just kind of, though. Per
copilot. So we'll move on from there. Yeah, I
agree with that. Cause they got basically my
total. Alright, Chelsea, next on my list, somebody
that we covered very recently, Emanuel Swedenberg,
Season 5, Episode 94. Swedenberg was an 18th
century mystic and theologian who claimed visions
of heaven and communications with spirits. His
achievement was founding a theological movement
that influenced mysticism and philosophy. So
I gave him he's 45th overall on my list with
an 11 and I should say he's tied with 45 He's
at the bottom of mine too with but I do think
I do think just looking at the two names Swedenborg
should be below the next So mine would be about
45 because I have those two that are not ranked
yet. I got a little overzealous there. I mean,
I gave him an eight. I gave him a one on deception.
Just because he was doing it from his dreams,
it's really hard to say that he was trying to
pull a fast one on anybody. I get weird vibes
from him, but it's mostly because of how much
he was into minerals and his own dreams. But
not that high of vibes, like a two, like I said.
I do think they're so some harm that came from
him, like the fact that his followers did get
some repercussions in Sweden, and he did make
money off his book, so I gave him a three, and
I gave him a three for legacy. He's the foundation
of a lot of ideas, but very few people actually
know that he's the foundation for these ideas,
and they have changed so much for saying that
you met enemies from other planets. I think that
your reasoning is much more logical for what
you scored him than what I had. I don't even
want to go over mine because I think yours is
much more accurate. I gave him a one in harm,
but now that you say that, I forgot that his
followers were punished. You can't really blame
him for that. Like you got to blame Swedish law
at the time too. He's still implicated in it
because it's his, right? So. Yeah, but it wasn't
even him. He was writing in English and then
the books were being brought back by followers
and sweet. Like he was trying to do everything
he could to avoid it. Which is why it's low.
I had them low too, but I forgot about that.
So I might push him up one. He falls 41st on
Copilot's list with a 30. They gave him a low
asshole factor because he didn't monetize heavily,
but his fabricated visions misled followers and
created doctrinal confusion that persists today,
giving him an overall score of 30. I'm disturbed
that you still haven't gotten to the person that's
on the bottom of my list yet I'm very curious
who you're gonna have at the bottom of your list
and I frankly am Astonished at who copilot put
at the bottom of their list. Have we gotten to
it yet? No, it's not going to be for a long time
either I shouldn't say a long time he's coming
up, but I wonder if it's the same when I put
at the bottom of my list at number 44 I have
Travis Walton. Okay, that's the bottom of my
list. Walton claimed to have been abducted by
aliens in 1975, a story that became a bestselling
book and the film Fire in the Sky. His achievement
was creating one of the most famous abduction
narratives in UFO history. He profited from the
story and misled audiences, but his case is less
exploitive than others and remains more folklore
than fraud. And that's what Copilot said, giving
him a ranking of 37th on its list. with a score
of 33. He did profit off it. He did profit. That's
his highest score for me. You know what? I didn't
even fill out grift. I gave him a four. He might
be tied with Paul Benowitz and Edgar Cayce with
me on this. Honestly, I don't want to believe
he's grifting, though, but he has profited off
of it. He has definitely profited. In fact, that's
how he makes pretty much all his income. Fire
in the sky. Huge story. I would put it out of
three, okay? So he's tied for me for bottom with
Benowitz and Casey. And that's the biggest part
for me. I can't fault him for profiting from
this. Yeah. But at the same time, it is a category,
and he did score higher because that's where
his income's coming from, is this story. Yeah,
I would agree with that. So yeah, I'm gonna give
him a 3 for Griff. I gave him a 12, again, 44th
on the list. Whiffle, give me a 3. Though, to
me, he doesn't have a legacy as an asshole. Like,
overall... See, I said he had a legacy of a 2
just because this is a very famous UFO story.
It is. Shit. And that's actually where his grift
comes from is the legacy of the story. It's really
weird. I know. Now that you say that, he's moving
up on my list from last. Son of a bitch. Okay.
Next up on the list at 43, I have the Weekly
World News. I have them at 39. This tabloid became
famous for sensational headlines like That Boy
Found in Cave and countless UFO cryptids and
paranormal stories. Its achievement was shaping
pop culture, perception of fringe claims, blending
satire with pseudoscience in a way that entertained
millions. I gave it overall a 12. It tied with
Travis Walton. It got very high in deception
and fabrication because that's literally what
it is. Mine's at 10. Ten out of ten. Yeah, it
should have been there. I gave it a seven just
because I don't think it's that bad a deception
compared to other people on the list. It's not.
So to me, like it was all deception. So that
was a ten. So it scored way lower points for
other things because in the vibes, it got a zero
because I gave it a zero for vibes. Yeah. So
that's where it evened out on mine. I gave it
a one for harm, because I feel like some people
might have thought it was real, but I don't think
many. I had to give it one for Gryff, just because
it was a paid subscription, like you bought it
at the store. But even then, when it went online,
it was free for a while. It is trying to monetize
a little bit. It's still free, yeah. But it's
still minimal. But it had to make money to continue
to provide the wonderful entertainment that it
did, which I can't fault it, really. It's just
filling a void that people need to fill. And
I gave it a three for legacy, just because it
does have that nostalgia in my mind. But at the
same time, when we were going through the episodes,
you could see the underpinnings of the fake news
we see today from it. Oh, yeah. Just in their
pure form. It was the original. In their fun
form. Other than Town Crier. Co -pilot. We put
it at 36 with a score of 34. And it says its
asshole factors come from fabricating stories
that blurred satire and fact, misleading casual
readers, and trivializing genuine inquiry while
profiting from sensationalism. They give it a
9 for legacy, which I think is crazy. Wow. Yeah.
That is crazy. Because, let's be honest, we do
all know who Batboy is. Don't get me wrong, but
it's not like batboy shows up anywhere else,
you know And that's the holding code like the
whole thing is like it can't be like a generally
known thing Yeah, like everyone knows batboy,
but it's not like it was the taking off point
for Where batboy the cryptic came from like everybody
knows batboy is not real even though he's lived
a whole lifetime He's gone to afghanistan taylor
swift is carrying his baby Yeah, I can't quite
remember how that works out. There was a whole
lot of stuff going on. Man, that was a fun, nostalgic
episode. Yeah, I know. Episodes. I know, that
was so good. I don't think we said it. That was
just covered this year in season five, episode
seven before. Oh, yeah. 74 and 76. We should
have had the names of them ready to go, but we
can't be... We're doing it on the spreadsheet.
That's really hard. Next up, 42nd on the list
is Mother Shipton. Oh, I have her really low
too. She's ranked on mine 44. Season 3, episode
12. Yeah, we're right around the same spot, 43,
44. I don't think the scores are gonna be that
different. That is one that I listened halfway
through. Hey, me too. I hope it didn't turn halfway
through. I have to tell you, listening to Mother
Shipton, I was like, wow, I remember when we
did the opening news article on our actual episodes.
It was like a little bit of nostalgia for me
before we broke it out to a mini. And just a
breaking the fourth wall here, it was something
that kind of shook us to our core when we took
that away. And we're like, how do you start an
episode just with theme songs? it's true but
now i think it's a beautiful thing and i wouldn't
want to go back but just listening to it that
way i was like wow and then the episode starts
like after that and so i was like a little bit
taken aback i was like what's going on but anyhow
shipton is a legendary english prophetess whose
prophecies were largely fabricated posthumously
Her achievement is enduring folklore status,
with her name attached to centuries of predictions.
Her asshole factor is modest. Her myth was exploited
by later promoters, misleading audiences, but
functioning more as entertainment than fraud.
Co -pilot with that description put her at 46.
She's actually very low on there. Wow. But they
gave her a 26, so she's still an asshole. We're
coming up all in the same, whether or not they
- She's a tragic character. She is. Like, when
you listen to it, you kind of get the vibes from
if you listen to it back in the day. Oh yeah,
woman brought up in a brothel, evil woman. You're
like, no, it's just the circumstances of her
life that really make everybody mean to her.
And that's where everything came from. And even
the stories about her didn't come out until a
century after her. Yeah. No, I just really felt
bad for her. I gave her a six in legacy, and
that's not her own doing. Yes. It's stories that
come later. It's legend. Yeah. It's the legend
that was built around her. And like, she made
up stories. I got to assume that. And that's
I gave her a three in deception. Yes. That's
everything else is twos. Mine's pretty much exactly
the same. Me and you are pretty much neck and
neck. Matching the bottom. Yeah. I think we have
agreement in who's not assholes. Yeah. Yeah,
because these are all below 20s mother ship did
definitely By her own means I don't think is
an asshole She's a little bit more up there in
legacy because of the cult status She's kind
of gotten around her but it's not through any
what was any of her own doing Okay, Chelsea next
up on my list and sorry, I don't know if I said
it I gave her 15 overall again, clearly not an
asshole Yeah, she is punished by her circumstances
and talked about later in life. Yeah, which is
actually pretty sad. Yeah. It's like a Benowitz
actually. Next up coming in at number 41 on my
list is Dee Dee Holmes coming from season 4 episode
65. Holmes was a Victorian era medium famous
for levitations and seance tricks. His achievements
were captivating elite audiences and becoming
one of the most famous spiritualists of his time.
I have him with an 18 overall with the highest
being grift. He got a 6 in grift. I have him
pretty hard and I just have to admit here between
me and you. I really get him mixed up with AJ
Tomes. Yeah, and those are very different vibes
that you're going to get from those. Very different
vibes. So it took me a while to remember who
he was. He's at a 35 for me because he's one
away from the Fox sisters, who to me are very,
very similar. They ran the same grift. So I had
him at a 10 for deception. I had him actually
fairly low in deception. I gave him a three,
which is higher than pretty much everything except
the weekly world news we've had. And the reason
that's so much lower than we're going to see
with the Fox sisters later on is because the
Fox sisters later admit all of their hoax. So
I can't say for sure he didn't believe what he
was doing. Huh. Interesting take on that, because
I would say wouldn't that make him a bigger asshole
for not admitting to it. Yeah, and especially
with, like, levitation stuff that he would do.
I might rethink that. It's interesting that it
kind of puts us at different levels because we're
interpreting it a little bit differently, which
is the fun of it. And I also don't get weird
vibes from him. I do! And I always love that
he had, like, people around to notarize everything.
There were affidavits always signed at his shows
that they were fantastic. I forgot about that
but because of that he gets weird vibes from
me because I guess I forgot about the notary
thing when I was scoring maybe it would have
been a little higher Fox sisters, they're taking
advantage of that spiritual movement. And around
that timeframe, they're all doing kind of a very
similar grift. So they're all kind of playing
off each other. They know what they're doing.
It's rapping, it's levitating. It's clearly made
up stuff. That was all the rage at the time.
So it definitely was a timely thing as well.
So I gave them higher asshole vibes as well.
Like I said, the only thing that really held
him back for me is like he kept up the grift.
whole life so it's hard to say he thought it
was a grift and maybe hey maybe he could actually
levitate i doubt it the funny thing for me here
is i gave him lower harm i still gave him a five
because obviously he's taking money from people
but scored lower on the vibes because i don't
feel like it was that harmful it was just taking
taking money from the rich it was the entertainment
at the time right it was like i want to go see
a movie take my money so i he's not like a villain
in anything like that to me because he was entertaining
and taking advantage of that and copilot has
him at a 34 actually very close to chelsea and
in 34th His asshole factors come from exploiting
grief and curiosity with fraudulent performances,
monetizing deception, while presenting himself
as a genuine medium. I should also say, I think
this might be the first time it becomes apparent.
I didn't listen to DD Holm's episodes again for
doing this list. Neither did I. But I remember
him. But, and weirdly enough, I do find when
I re -listen to episodes, the score went up significantly.
Because apparently you just forget some of the
asshole stuff people do. It's true. I mean, especially
when we're looking back at where are we right
now. This is the late 1800s. No. Oh, sorry. Season
four, episode 65. So we're talking about like
August of last year. Yeah. So it's been a while,
but I remember his vibes. So that's why his vibes
scored an eight for me. Okay, and this is the
last person on my list, Chelsea, who isn't an
asshole, as it's the last score below 20. And
Chelsea, how many more on your list are below
20? I have below 20. How many are you? 1, 2,
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Oh, you've
got quite a few. Well, this is my last one who's
not an asshole. Oh, no, no, 12, because I was
counting one at 20. And yeah, I have one who
just barely cracked up. I love the guy, but anyhow,
we'll get to him when we get to him. Last one
I have at 40th with a score is Gary McKinnon,
the man who hacked NASA season two episode 38.
Oh yeah, I have him very low too. I actually
really like Gary. I know. McKinnon became infamous
as the UFO hacker after breaking into NASA and
US military computers in the early 2000s claiming
he was searching for evidence of extraterrestrial
technology. His achievement was exposing vulnerabilities
in government systems and sparking global headlines
about UFO secrecy. Overall, I have him at a 19.
The highest thing he scored is a six in legacy.
Yeah, because he is somebody who's remembered
and it gets talked about a lot in UFO circles.
But. He doesn't actually make the UFO round.
He hasn't really profited off this. I get weird
vibes from him, but like not in like necessarily
a bad way. Just like nerd vibes, like just weird.
Yeah. Like I live in a basement vibe, I think.
He did hack a government mainframe, so he got
a four in arm, but he didn't do anything bad.
completely on with that and i think it's gone
actually from like they're scoring low because
you just feel bad for them to like yeah he's
scoring low because like he's a good guy and
i like him and funny enough copilot agrees too
he's 39th on their list at a 32 another one that
i tied with ai i have three ties with ai that
is hilarious which is weird i'm yeah i'm on my
ranking That is where we finish off with the
total agreement. They are not assholes. So I
think this is where we're going to cut the list.
And next week, we're going to continue on starting
with the actual start of the asshole list. I'm
excited. Yeah. This is going to be a lot of fun.
We have a lot to go through. I'm just shouting
out my ranking. I've been Taylor here with Chelsea.
We are a journey to the fringe. Thank you all
for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.
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