WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.339 Chelsea, I have never used this source before, 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:04.099 but we could use some good news. I love it. So 00:00:04.099 --> 00:00:05.740 we're going to use some good news. Oh, good. 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:12.699 This is WRAL .com, written on October 14th, 2025, 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:18.140 written by Liz McLaughlin. Article title, lab 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.239 -grown leather from a living cow could change 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:25.019 the fashion industry. It's like the brains, but 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:29.539 different. The wallet in George Engelmeier's 00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:33.159 hand looks unremarkable, tan textured, a little 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:35.359 stiff at the edges. The story behind it is anything 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.719 but. It was grown in a North Carolina lab from 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.780 the skin cells of a cow named Angel who was very 00:00:41.780 --> 00:00:44.579 much alive grazing in an animal sanctuary in 00:00:44.579 --> 00:00:47.740 upstate New York. Engelmeier, a biomedical engineer 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:51.079 who founded Cultivated Biomaterials in the Raleigh 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:54.179 area, is already selling jewelry in late with 00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:57.399 what he calls cultivated leather. prototype small 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.859 goods like wallets. With this Kickstarter as 00:01:00.859 --> 00:01:03.460 a springboard, he says the company's next targets 00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:06.340 are watch bands and eventually handbags as the 00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:09.099 material strengthens and flexibility improves. 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:11.620 Quote, this is the first time in history that 00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:13.900 a cow has lived to see leather grown from her 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:16.659 own cell. End quote. Engelmayer said holding 00:01:16.659 --> 00:01:19.579 a sheet of tissue that had just finished the 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:22.859 first step of tannin. Quote, Angel is still alive 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:26.299 and doing amazing. End quote. Angel is a rescued 00:01:26.299 --> 00:01:29.060 Black Angus at Sweet Farm, a non -profit sanctuary. 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:32.459 In January, Engelmeyer visited with a pouch made 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:35.760 from Angel's cells and held it up for the bovine 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.819 to inspect. Oh, that's sweet. The moment that 00:01:37.819 --> 00:01:39.959 the company... Is that sweet or is that kind 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:43.959 of like, I don't know, a little psychotic? A 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.579 little bit, but she's alive and well, so I'm 00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:51.780 currently mind -wrestling myself over what I 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:54.430 think about, but I think it's nice. I'm thinking 00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:56.950 - I'm leaning towards it's nice. I'm still torn 00:01:56.950 --> 00:01:59.230 if it's - that wouldn't be vegan, right? Because 00:01:59.230 --> 00:02:01.950 it's still made from animal products. It wouldn't 00:02:01.950 --> 00:02:05.150 be vegan, however - It would be vegetarian, in 00:02:05.150 --> 00:02:09.270 theory. I see no problems with it. So far, so 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:13.490 far. I could be wildly wrong on that first feel 00:02:13.490 --> 00:02:15.750 I'm getting from it. I would actually - like 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:18.969 somebody who's more in depth in vegan understanding 00:02:18.969 --> 00:02:21.560 - I would like to ask them what they thought 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.039 of this, whether the animal is still on a farm. 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.639 I do feel like vegan would be no, because it 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:31.360 is an animal product. However, it's not compromising 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.419 the health or happiness of that animal in the 00:02:35.419 --> 00:02:37.949 least. No, and that's why, like... Because with 00:02:37.949 --> 00:02:41.189 bees too, like some people think that honey is 00:02:41.189 --> 00:02:43.610 vegan, but others think it's not. It depends 00:02:43.610 --> 00:02:46.789 on what your opinion is on like making an animal 00:02:46.789 --> 00:02:49.810 work versus not. Yeah, and this one's not making 00:02:49.810 --> 00:02:52.969 it work. It's just literally taking itself from 00:02:52.969 --> 00:02:55.169 what I'm... Just existing. But it's existing 00:02:55.169 --> 00:02:58.750 on a farm, which I always am curious of with 00:02:58.750 --> 00:03:02.030 the vegans. Yeah, I mean cows wouldn't really 00:03:02.030 --> 00:03:05.530 successfully thrive outside of a farm, I don't 00:03:05.530 --> 00:03:08.389 think. You say that, but we've talked about the 00:03:08.389 --> 00:03:10.669 Oryx, it's a beautiful animal. That's true, that's 00:03:10.669 --> 00:03:13.330 true. And they're all, like, stomping their hooves 00:03:13.330 --> 00:03:17.030 and squealing. I know the reference, but I cannot 00:03:17.030 --> 00:03:20.090 remember what episode it is. Dear Matt, of course. 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:26.009 You said your lover is dead. The romance novel 00:03:26.009 --> 00:03:32.030 of cryptids. How could you forget? Sweet Farms 00:03:32.030 --> 00:03:34.389 founder has publicly cheered the experiment, 00:03:34.490 --> 00:03:36.610 framing it as a glimpse of a slaughter -free 00:03:36.610 --> 00:03:39.849 future for luxury goods. Inside a small rally 00:03:39.849 --> 00:03:43.389 workspace, Engelmeyer grows angels' cells on 00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:45.990 airy plant -based mats called scaffolds, made 00:03:45.990 --> 00:03:48.930 from fibers like capic, milkweed, and dandelion 00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:52.340 fluff. The cells secrete collagen the protein 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:54.759 that gives animal hides their strength. After 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:56.939 several weeks the tissue is vegetable tanned 00:03:56.939 --> 00:03:59.960 using powder derived from tree bark such as mimosa 00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:03.580 and sumac, avoiding the chromium salt widely 00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:07.280 used in conventional tanning. The finished slivers 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.319 are set into sterling silver bezels and sealed 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.319 beneath a glass cabochon. The effect is closer 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.680 to a specimen than a swatch. A biological gemstone, 00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:20.160 Engelmeier likes to say. He's not the first to 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.459 chase lab -grown or next -gen leather. Startups 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:24.899 have experimented with mycelium mushroom roots, 00:04:25.459 --> 00:04:28.379 bacterial cellulose, and collagen produced in 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:31.220 tanks by engineered microbes. A few have shown 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:34.220 couture -ready prototypes, but durability and 00:04:34.220 --> 00:04:36.920 cost have been the sticking point. Engelmeier's 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:39.889 claim to novelty is narrower. He says he is the 00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:42.970 first to sell a cultivated leather product grown 00:04:42.970 --> 00:04:45.689 from the cells of a living sanctuary cow to offer 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:48.540 it directly to consumers. Leather's environmental 00:04:48.540 --> 00:04:51.160 ledger is complicated. Hides are a byproduct 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:54.459 of meat and dairy, but life cycle studies consistently 00:04:54.459 --> 00:04:57.980 tie leather to high climate and water impact 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:00.720 because it's linked to livestock and emissions 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.420 and resource use and because many tanneries still 00:05:04.420 --> 00:05:07.639 rely on toxic chemicals. Yeah, you're not getting 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.459 the byproduct to make leather until the cow is 00:05:10.459 --> 00:05:13.019 dead. I think that's fairly easy to say, given 00:05:13.019 --> 00:05:15.879 all of the repercussions on it. Yeah. And I wonder 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.259 about the vegan thing as well, because it is 00:05:18.259 --> 00:05:21.959 happy living on a, like, it's been rescued, it 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.079 said. So it's very happy. It's living a good 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:28.720 life. So maybe it would be vegan. Well, not only 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.610 that, once that animal... dies. I'm assuming 00:05:31.610 --> 00:05:34.069 they're going to keep cultivating that same animal's 00:05:34.069 --> 00:05:36.329 skin cells. So maybe then it becomes not vegan. 00:05:36.670 --> 00:05:39.389 Yeah no I'm one I'm actually I think once the 00:05:39.389 --> 00:05:41.250 animal dies into like we don't have to worry 00:05:41.250 --> 00:05:43.310 about whether or not it's being farmed for it's 00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:46.639 like usage, it becomes easier to say it is vegan. 00:05:47.459 --> 00:05:49.980 Engelmeyer cites analyses suggesting cultivated 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:53.420 leather could use up to 80 % less water and generate 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:56.160 90 % fewer emissions, while acknowledging that 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:59.240 his own operations have been yet undergone an 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.910 independent life cycle assessment. Water is used 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:04.550 in our process, they said, but we can recycle 00:06:04.550 --> 00:06:06.910 it. That's one of the key distinctions. Independent 00:06:06.910 --> 00:06:09.990 experts say that while those figures are plausible, 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:13.829 the gains will depend on the source of the nutrients 00:06:13.829 --> 00:06:16.250 that feed the cells and the energy -powering 00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:18.829 bioreactors. For now, the experiment remains 00:06:18.829 --> 00:06:22.189 small, more proof of concept than climate panacea, 00:06:22.250 --> 00:06:25.050 but it points towards a less destructive way 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:27.529 to meet global demand for leather, which industry 00:06:27.529 --> 00:06:30.600 analysts value at more than $400 billion. ear. 00:06:30.939 --> 00:06:33.259 And I just want to point out, it doesn't really 00:06:33.259 --> 00:06:36.279 matter how much we curtail the demand for leather, 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:39.079 especially cow leather, if we don't curtail the 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.459 demand for cow meat. Yeah. Because whether or 00:06:42.459 --> 00:06:45.720 not we have a demand for cow leather, if it doesn't 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.360 outstrip the demand for cow meat, it's kind of 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.800 a moot point. Yeah, that's true. I don't know, 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:52.300 do I have to expand on that Chelsea or do you 00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:54.579 get that? No, I get that. Okay. The near -term 00:06:54.579 --> 00:06:56.660 plan is to move from wallets and jewelry into 00:06:56.660 --> 00:06:58.939 watch straps and small handbags, a deliberate 00:06:58.939 --> 00:07:01.100 progression that matches current sheet sizes 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:03.300 and durability while the lab refines finished 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:06.279 chemistry. Whether cultivated leather can ever 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.600 rival the price and performance of hides coming 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:10.899 out of global tanneries is an open question. 00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:14.120 Alternative leather pioneers have learned hard 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:17.079 lessons about scaling and strengths. One much 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:19.899 publicized mycelium collaboration fizzled when 00:07:19.899 --> 00:07:23.220 the material failed to meet luxury standards. 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:25.540 Investors burned by the setback in the self -cultured 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:28.100 meat sector are cautious. Still high in fashion 00:07:28.100 --> 00:07:30.920 has always made room for scarce materials with 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.660 a story. This one has both. For North Carolina, 00:07:33.939 --> 00:07:36.319 the experiment is a reminder the state's biotech 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.759 brain trust isn't limited to medicine or agriculture. 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:42.939 Engelmeier cut his teeth in tissue engineering, 00:07:43.180 --> 00:07:45.639 growing heart valves and cardiac muscle before 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:49.699 detouring into cellular agriculture in California. 00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:52.939 The lab techniques are transferable, so is the 00:07:52.939 --> 00:07:55.819 sales pitch. Think Pearl, he said, holding up 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:59.009 a pendant where the leather -tied glowed faintly 00:07:59.009 --> 00:08:01.329 beneath the glass. Only this time the animal 00:08:01.329 --> 00:08:03.350 keeps living. That's the end of the article. 00:08:03.829 --> 00:08:05.990 Well, this one is a happier one to think of. 00:08:06.089 --> 00:08:08.930 Well, less complicated one to think of than the 00:08:08.930 --> 00:08:12.060 brain one, that's for sure. Mm -hmm. And I picked 00:08:12.060 --> 00:08:14.160 this one because it was a happy one compared 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.600 to the other things I had. It is. I mean, to 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.819 have an alternative to leather that's not coming 00:08:20.819 --> 00:08:23.639 from an animal that was slaughtered, I think 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:26.459 is a great thing. Where the animal's still happy 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:29.480 and living. It wasn't affected by the cells that 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.419 you're taking. And you know, there's no hoof 00:08:32.419 --> 00:08:35.259 stomping. There's no screeching coming from the 00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:39.259 animal because of this. I think it's great news. 00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:43.509 I think it's probably win -win, though capitalism 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:46.690 he's still not being paid for the goods that 00:08:46.690 --> 00:08:49.649 he's providing. Well to be fair maybe Dear Man 00:08:49.649 --> 00:08:52.929 was being paid and matching up themselves. Maybe 00:08:52.929 --> 00:08:54.690 that's why they were stomping and hollering. 00:08:54.809 --> 00:08:57.649 He might have been. The Dear Man might have been 00:08:57.649 --> 00:09:00.789 there with a leather good purse being like look 00:09:00.789 --> 00:09:03.950 at what you made see. Maybe Dear Man is Leather 00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:07.789 Man purse. And he was just waving it at them 00:09:07.789 --> 00:09:12.710 and they were like, we do not approve. Those 00:09:12.710 --> 00:09:19.570 are our cells. Those are our cells. And they're 00:09:19.570 --> 00:09:22.429 pissed. I don't know. I don't know. It's just 00:09:22.429 --> 00:09:25.409 at least it's not brains is all I can say on 00:09:25.409 --> 00:09:27.450 this one because that was quite a disturbing 00:09:27.450 --> 00:09:31.169 video. Yeah. And you guys got 48 hours. You tell 00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:35.799 us. Is cultured leather from a cow? vegan or 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.259 not. I genuinely want to see what people think. 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:43.740 I, vegetarian here, say vegetarian at the very 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:48.679 least. Probably 48 hours. I'm glad you waited 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.860 for your vegetarianism for the 48 hours. Anyhow, 00:09:52.179 --> 00:09:52.360 bye.