WEBVTT 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.599 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:25.269 us on a Journey to the Fringe. And I feel like 00:00:25.269 --> 00:00:28.329 any documentary after that on the making of the 00:00:28.329 --> 00:00:31.129 last one would just keep adding to that. There 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:33.670 would be an endless cycles of Journey 2, which 00:00:33.670 --> 00:00:35.789 I think at some point we might have to do. But 00:00:35.789 --> 00:00:40.250 at this point, I'm not that ambitious. We are 00:00:40.250 --> 00:00:42.789 your Strictly podcast host for now, Taylor and 00:00:42.789 --> 00:00:46.100 Chelsea. And tonight. We are stepping into the 00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:48.600 life of a man who lived in two worlds at once. 00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:50.679 The man we're going to be looking at today is 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:53.079 Emanuel Swedenberg. I've never heard of him, 00:00:53.100 --> 00:00:55.799 I don't think. No, you haven't. He's kind of 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.240 a forerunner of a few things that we talk about, 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.179 but I kind of want to leave that as a surprise 00:01:00.179 --> 00:01:02.740 as we go. Without much more, just get right into 00:01:02.740 --> 00:01:06.620 this. Because Emanuel Swedenberg refused to stay 00:01:06.620 --> 00:01:08.840 in one lane. He was an inventor who sketched 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:11.040 flying machines long before airplanes, a scientist 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.560 who mapped the human body in ways that anticipated 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.920 modern neuroscience, and a mystic who claimed 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.040 he could walk freely between heaven and hell. 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.560 His story is one of visions, revelations, and 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:24.079 ideas that unsettled both church and state. Now, 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.840 Emanuel Swedenberg was born in Stockholm, Sweden 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:31.239 on January 29th, 1688. He was the son of Jesper 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:34.280 Svedberg, a pastor in Sweden's Lutheran State 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:36.840 Church. At 11, Emanuel entered the University 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:39.780 of Uppsala. When his father left to become Bishop 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:42.680 of Skara, Emanuel remained, completing his studies 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.780 in 1709. At this point, it's Svedberg. Okay. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.000 It does change, which is a little confusing. 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:53.659 It's funny that he's in Sweden and his name sounds 00:01:53.659 --> 00:01:56.480 like Sweden. I know. In fact, I think his last 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:58.819 name means Swedenborn. I don't know for sure. 00:01:58.819 --> 00:02:01.159 I didn't look it up, but I think that's what 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.760 he ends up getting as a last name. Okay. Okay. 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.680 Strange. It's easy to remember. Yeah. And I find 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:11.159 it very interesting. He was able to start university 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.659 at 11. I don't know what the curriculum was like 00:02:13.659 --> 00:02:15.460 back in the day. Maybe that was normal. I missed 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:19.699 that one. His dad was a professor there, so maybe 00:02:19.699 --> 00:02:22.759 that's how nepotism works. I would be more expecting 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.699 an 11 year old to be at university if his dad 00:02:25.699 --> 00:02:27.939 taught there. Yeah, interesting it doesn't come 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:31.169 up all that often anymore. No. Now, like many 00:02:31.169 --> 00:02:33.189 wealthy young Swedes, he embarked on a grand 00:02:33.189 --> 00:02:35.469 tour of Europe after this. In England, he studied 00:02:35.469 --> 00:02:39.490 astronomy under John Flamsteed, the royal astronomer, 00:02:39.550 --> 00:02:41.650 and moved in the same circles as Isaac Newton 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:45.150 and Edmund Halley. He dabbled in geology, botany, 00:02:45.349 --> 00:02:47.909 zoology, and mechanics, later continuing his 00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:50.370 studies in Amsterdam and Paris. After more than 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:52.509 five years abroad, he returned to Sweden and 00:02:52.509 --> 00:02:55.069 became assistant to inventor Christopher Polum. 00:02:55.229 --> 00:02:56.930 This connection brought him to the attention 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:59.150 of King Charles XII, who appointed him to the 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:01.780 prestigious Board of Mines. When Charles XII 00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:05.939 died in 1718, his sister, Alrica Eleonora, ennobled 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:09.520 the Swedenberg family, giving them the name by 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.879 which Emmanuel is remembered today, Swedenberg. 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.300 Because he got a favor he was liked by the king, 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:16.060 his sister ended up giving them a new title, 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:18.780 a new last name. I mean, they just added an M. 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:21.780 More or less. That would be so weird these days 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:23.939 if, like, I don't know, Prime Minister of Canada 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:25.500 calls you up and he's like, hey, I think you're 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:27.199 doing a good job, you're getting a new last name. 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:30.729 Yeah, we're just gonna add like a few extra letters. 00:03:31.289 --> 00:03:33.129 We're gonna add Canada to the start of your name 00:03:33.129 --> 00:03:36.810 or something like that. I don't know that I would 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:40.770 like that. It would be weird. I think I'd be 00:03:40.770 --> 00:03:43.379 like, no, thank you. It's a different culture. 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.599 I like my country and all, but... I have my signature 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:48.699 down. I don't want to have to introduce myself 00:03:48.699 --> 00:03:50.659 with extra... That's three extra syllables. I 00:03:50.659 --> 00:03:53.419 don't know that I need it as a part of my name. 00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:57.919 Could it be silent, perhaps? Yeah. I'm sure it 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.849 could actually, knowing how English works. In 00:04:00.849 --> 00:04:03.349 these early years, Emanuel Swedenberg poured 00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:05.569 his energy into science and invention. He launched 00:04:05.569 --> 00:04:08.509 a journal, Da Dallas Hyperboreus, meant to showcase 00:04:08.509 --> 00:04:10.530 Polen's work, the inventor he was working under, 00:04:10.729 --> 00:04:12.810 but also filled it with his own ideas, including 00:04:12.810 --> 00:04:15.729 a design for a flying machine. Yes. The inventor 00:04:15.729 --> 00:04:18.310 that he was working with, his name was Polen? 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:22.589 Polen. Like P -O -L -H -E -M. I was like, what 00:04:22.589 --> 00:04:25.569 the hell's up with this episode? Nobody was named 00:04:25.569 --> 00:04:27.889 but countries back in the day. At least the people 00:04:27.889 --> 00:04:30.129 who survived. They went on to found countries. 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:34.189 Just needed to clarify that quick. Included in 00:04:34.189 --> 00:04:37.089 the journal was his design for a flying machine, 00:04:37.250 --> 00:04:39.930 which is in the early 1700s. Oh, I love that. 00:04:40.350 --> 00:04:42.569 I think it's a beautiful Chelsea. I'm just going 00:04:42.569 --> 00:04:45.209 to share my screen because there's actually a 00:04:45.209 --> 00:04:48.610 picture of his flying machine that he has sketched. 00:04:48.689 --> 00:04:51.209 And if I can find where I need to be. Oh, I love 00:04:51.209 --> 00:04:54.810 how un -aerodynamic these flying machines used 00:04:54.810 --> 00:04:58.589 to be. Yeah. They're pretty clunky. Oh, wow. 00:04:58.629 --> 00:05:00.649 What is that? Is that a blimp? I'm not quite 00:05:00.649 --> 00:05:02.829 sure how to take it. Like I think it's one wing 00:05:02.829 --> 00:05:05.170 and you're like floating underneath it. Oh. But 00:05:05.170 --> 00:05:07.189 it also kind of looks like a blimp from the side. 00:05:07.269 --> 00:05:08.189 It does look like a blimp. So I'm not quite sure 00:05:08.189 --> 00:05:10.089 which angle we're looking at it. And it's really 00:05:10.089 --> 00:05:12.310 small writing and it's Swedish writing even if 00:05:12.310 --> 00:05:14.209 we could read it. So I'm not quite sure how to 00:05:14.209 --> 00:05:16.160 take it. Anyhow, this flying machine actually 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.060 has its own entire Wikipedia entry. Oh, okay. 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.060 So he drafted this up in the early 1700s and 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:24.160 there's a conversation between him and Pohlheim 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.399 where Swedenberg admits that this contraption 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:29.519 that he invented wouldn't fly, but he saw it 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.459 perhaps as a first step. He specifically wrote 00:05:31.459 --> 00:05:34.240 apparently on this page. It seems easier to talk 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.180 of such a machine than to put it into actuality. 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:40.439 Perhaps in time to come, someone might know how 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.740 to better utilize our sketch. Although when the 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:44.980 first trials are made, You may have to pay for 00:05:44.980 --> 00:05:47.560 the experience and not mind an arm and a leg. 00:05:48.019 --> 00:05:50.000 He also did basically say like this wouldn't 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.360 work with just like human power. Like you'd need 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:55.160 something else far before engines had been invented. 00:05:55.180 --> 00:05:58.120 What does he mean by human power? Like we wouldn't 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.560 be strong enough to make it fly. Okay, well then 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.699 what's he looking for? Something that would give 00:06:02.699 --> 00:06:05.819 it power. I don't know. More than humans. Yes. 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:10.050 Horses, perhaps. Like, is he a god -man? Or, 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:12.149 like, he quits looking? Oh, he's definitely a 00:06:12.149 --> 00:06:14.290 god -man, but he's more - he didn't want to pray 00:06:14.290 --> 00:06:16.250 it into the sky. I think he just thought, like, 00:06:16.550 --> 00:06:18.350 somebody might invent something stronger than 00:06:18.350 --> 00:06:20.970 a human at some point that could power it. Okay. 00:06:21.230 --> 00:06:23.470 But I'm speculating here, unfortunately. Like, 00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:27.110 I was thinking, like, is he thinking extraterrestrials 00:06:27.110 --> 00:06:29.509 will come down and strike it with lightning? 00:06:29.689 --> 00:06:32.029 And then it's, I don't know. I don't know. No, 00:06:32.170 --> 00:06:34.569 this is well before extraterrestrials. This is 00:06:34.569 --> 00:06:40.189 God times. The 1600s. Okay. In 1734, Swedenborg 00:06:40.189 --> 00:06:43.329 published what's called the Opera Philosophica 00:06:43.329 --> 00:06:46.490 et Mineralia. It's Latin. It's about minerals 00:06:46.490 --> 00:06:48.610 because he's on the board of mining. Sometimes 00:06:48.610 --> 00:06:50.430 he's doing interesting stuff, but a lot of his 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:53.209 mid -years where he's super successful is about 00:06:53.209 --> 00:06:55.730 mining. So kind of a dull guy at this point. 00:06:55.889 --> 00:06:57.670 Yeah, that does sound dull. And he publishes 00:06:57.670 --> 00:06:59.750 this book. The second and third ones are called 00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:02.529 On Iron and On Copper, and they earn the attention 00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:05.009 for their technical detail throughout Europe. 00:07:05.189 --> 00:07:07.990 But it was his first volume, Principa Reurum 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:10.410 Naturalium, Basic Principles of Nature, that 00:07:10.410 --> 00:07:12.730 laid the philosophical groundwork for his later 00:07:12.730 --> 00:07:15.889 explorations of the soul. Oh, the soul. He followed 00:07:15.889 --> 00:07:19.269 this with anatomical studies, including Dynamics 00:07:19.269 --> 00:07:21.170 of the Soul's Domain, there's a Latin version 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:22.790 out of it, I'm not going to attempt it, which 00:07:22.790 --> 00:07:25.629 examined the heart, blood, brain, and nervous 00:07:25.629 --> 00:07:28.629 system. And here Swedenberg began to bridge science 00:07:28.629 --> 00:07:31.170 and spirituality, describing a subtle spiritual 00:07:31.170 --> 00:07:34.069 fluid that sustained all living things, an energy 00:07:34.069 --> 00:07:36.990 he believed that flowed directly from God. But 00:07:36.990 --> 00:07:39.069 his scientific work was soon interrupted by something 00:07:39.069 --> 00:07:43.060 far stranger. He has a spiritual crisis. So beginning 00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:47.240 in 1743, which would make him about 55 I believe, 00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:49.519 late midlife crisis but nonetheless he's here, 00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:52.060 Swedenberg's nights were filled with vivid dreams 00:07:52.060 --> 00:07:54.860 and visions. He recorded them in his diary, often 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:57.079 interpreting them as divine warnings or calls 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.800 to purify himself. By April 1745, His vision 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.180 spilled into waking life. Swedenborg claimed 00:08:04.180 --> 00:08:06.879 he could now see and converse with beings from 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.540 the spiritual world. And in 1747, he resigned 00:08:10.540 --> 00:08:12.860 from the Board of Minds, turning down a promotion 00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:15.680 so he could devote himself entirely to theology. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.839 His first major theological work after this is 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:21.920 Arcana Coelestia, Secrets of Heaven, and it's 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:25.259 appeared in 1749, published in London to avoid 00:08:25.259 --> 00:08:27.699 Sweden's strict heresy laws, and it's stretched 00:08:27.699 --> 00:08:32.179 across eight volumes by 1756. In it, Swedenberg 00:08:32.179 --> 00:08:35.139 argued that the Bible could not be read literally. 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:38.019 Instead, every verse contained a hidden spiritual 00:08:38.019 --> 00:08:40.379 meaning, a correspondence between the physical 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:43.340 and the spiritual world. Alongside this, alongside 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:45.279 his commentary, he described the structure of 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:47.259 heaven and hell, the lives of angels and demons, 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:49.679 and the intimate connection between body, soul, 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:53.120 faith, and cherry. In 1758, he returned to London 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.179 with five new works, Heaven and Hell, White Horse, 00:08:56.429 --> 00:08:59.409 other planets, Last Judgment, and New Jerusalem. 00:08:59.590 --> 00:09:01.990 Here, he made one of the boldest claims that 00:09:01.990 --> 00:09:04.429 the Last Judgment had already happened, not on 00:09:04.429 --> 00:09:08.850 Earth but in the spiritual realm in 1757. He 00:09:08.850 --> 00:09:10.730 said he had witnessed it himself and that it 00:09:10.730 --> 00:09:13.730 marked the dawn of a new spiritual age for humanity. 00:09:15.350 --> 00:09:18.149 In 1759, Swedenborg's reputation as a mystic 00:09:18.149 --> 00:09:20.779 was about to explode. That summer, while attending 00:09:20.779 --> 00:09:24.220 a dinner party in Gothenburg, he suddenly grew 00:09:24.220 --> 00:09:26.820 pale and agitated. He announced that a fire was 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.620 raging in Stockholm, over 250 miles away, and 00:09:29.620 --> 00:09:31.639 that it was threatening his home. Hours later, 00:09:31.779 --> 00:09:34.320 he calmly reported that the fire had been extinguished 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.220 just three doors down. Two days later, messengers 00:09:37.220 --> 00:09:39.960 arrived from Stockholm every detail matched Swedenberg's 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.370 account. In 1760, the widow of the French ambassador 00:09:43.370 --> 00:09:45.889 to Sweden faced a troubling bill for an expensive 00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:48.309 silver service. She was certain her husband had 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:50.629 paid, but the receipt was missing. After consulting 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:53.070 Swedenborg, she dreamed of her husband revealing 00:09:53.070 --> 00:09:55.370 the receipt's location, and the next day, she 00:09:55.370 --> 00:09:58.769 found exactly where the dream had shown. In 1761, 00:09:59.149 --> 00:10:02.519 Queen Luisa Elrica herself put Swedenberg to 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:05.080 the test. She asked him to relay a private question 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.759 to her deceased brother, Prince Augustus Wilhelm 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.620 of Prussia. Three weeks later, Swedenberg returned 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:13.259 with an answer so precise that the Queen reportedly 00:10:13.259 --> 00:10:15.980 gasped, quote, only my brother could have known 00:10:15.980 --> 00:10:18.620 this, end quote. These incidents, widely reported 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:22.299 and discussed, made Swedenberg a sensation across 00:10:22.299 --> 00:10:24.919 Europe and for the first time he openly acknowledged 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.279 authorship of his theological work. But perhaps 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.059 the strangest part of Swedenborg's legacy is 00:10:31.059 --> 00:10:33.620 this, Chelsea. In the 18th century, the idea 00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:35.519 that other planets might be inhabited wasn't 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.019 as strange as it sounds today. Philosophers like 00:10:38.019 --> 00:10:42.039 Fontenelle and even Kant speculated about a plurality 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:44.000 of worlds, a universe that was teeming with life. 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:46.019 But while most thinkers treat it as a theory, 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:50.220 Swedenborg went further. In his 1758 book, Earths 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.399 in the universe, he claimed not only that other 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:54.779 planets were inhabited, but that he had actually 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:57.399 met and spoken with their inhabitants through 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.440 his spiritual journeys. Each planetary society, 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.200 he said, reflected different aspects of divine 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.279 order. This was more than speculation. It was 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:09.259 a bold theological claim. Swedenborg suggested 00:11:09.259 --> 00:11:11.820 that God's creation was far too vast to be limited 00:11:11.820 --> 00:11:14.259 to Earth alone and the spiritual destiny of humanity 00:11:14.259 --> 00:11:17.879 was shared across the cosmos. This is centuries 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:21.100 before UFO - sightings or science fiction Swedenberg 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:23.019 was already describing encounters with beings 00:11:23.019 --> 00:11:25.860 from other worlds it is more than speculation 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:29.759 but it is speculation at this point not really 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:31.620 speculation because he's saying in his dreams 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:34.179 he's talking to people from other planets specifically 00:11:34.179 --> 00:11:38.940 in the solar system it's still speculation well 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:40.919 it's not speculation if you're saying i have 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:45.340 talked to a person from venus in my dreams You're 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:47.559 forgetting that part. That's not speculating 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:49.600 though, that's grounding it where you've got 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.080 this information from. It would be different 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.779 if he's saying that I think there's people on 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:57.700 Venus because... Um, I spoke to them in my dreams. 00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:59.940 He's like, no, I'm speaking to people on Venus. 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:02.559 Regularly. In my dreams. In my dreams. Yeah. 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:05.200 I mean, that's not really grounded in reality 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.480 though. I could say a lot of things happen in 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.799 my dreams and my dreams are crazy. Oh no, I'm 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.559 not saying it's grounded in reality. I'm saying 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.799 it's not speculation. Well, the speculation is 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.379 that there's life on another planet. Other people 00:12:17.379 --> 00:12:20.179 are speculating. He's saying it's true. Okay. 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:22.980 I'm not seeing why it's not speculation, but 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:24.399 okay. I guess we're splitting hairs. I'm saying 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.480 there's no uncertainty in how he's saying it 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.779 because it has happened to him. He is sure of 00:12:28.779 --> 00:12:30.879 it, whereas speculation is kind of like, I think 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:33.059 this. Which is what the other philosophers of 00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:35.799 the day are doing. I would go out on a limb to 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.799 say that he is thinking that he thinks that. 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.360 I don't think we necessarily need to have a semantics 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:45.690 argument, I guess. The reason I decided to cover 00:12:45.690 --> 00:12:48.230 Emanuel Swedenberg, a guy that neither of us 00:12:48.230 --> 00:12:50.789 had heard until very recently for both of us, 00:12:50.830 --> 00:12:53.929 for you right about now, is because he is considered 00:12:53.929 --> 00:12:58.169 the first person to have interacted with other 00:12:58.169 --> 00:13:01.289 entities on other planets. In his dreams. How 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:04.330 else, Chelsea? And this is something you see 00:13:04.330 --> 00:13:06.629 today still, is people saying like I'm interacting 00:13:06.629 --> 00:13:09.470 with these people from the Pleiades, from Sirius 00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:12.110 B, things like that. Do you know how much stuff 00:13:12.110 --> 00:13:15.409 I've done? and talked within my dreams. I don't 00:13:15.409 --> 00:13:17.509 know. And I don't know for me either, because 00:13:17.509 --> 00:13:20.190 I don't remember many of my dreams. I remember 00:13:20.190 --> 00:13:23.950 a lot of my dreams and it is all pretty much 00:13:23.950 --> 00:13:27.269 nonsense. But I'm out there doing it. Yeah. And 00:13:27.269 --> 00:13:30.289 this is the first point we can draw everyone 00:13:30.289 --> 00:13:32.889 back who is claimed to have spoken with people 00:13:32.889 --> 00:13:35.509 from other planets to this. This is the first 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:37.750 time it ever happens. I mean, that is a long 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:40.629 time ago. I'll give them that. Not everyone saw 00:13:40.629 --> 00:13:43.429 Emanuel Swedenberg as a prophet or visionary 00:13:43.429 --> 00:13:45.980 to many of contemporaries and plenty of scholar 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:48.480 sins, he was something else entirely. Some accuse 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.840 him of madness, suggesting his visions were hallucinations 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:53.000 brought on by illness or stress. Others dismiss 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.259 his elaborate theology of correspondences. as 00:13:56.259 --> 00:13:59.419 arbitrary, even incoherent, grand system built 00:13:59.419 --> 00:14:02.259 on imagination rather than revelation. The famous 00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:04.059 stories of his seership, the Stockholm Fire, 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:05.940 the widow's missing receipt, the queen's private 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.840 question, were retold across Europe, but skeptics 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.279 argue they could be explained by coincidence, 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.220 rumor, or exaggeration. Even within Sweden, his 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:16.279 writings were controversial, enough to be banned, 00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:18.320 in fact, and his followers were charged with 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.700 heresy. And while writers like William Blake 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.159 and Ralph Waldo Emerson admired him, others found 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:26.309 his books unreadable, verbose, and rep— and filled 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:29.250 with claims too extravagant to be taken seriously. 00:14:29.570 --> 00:14:31.909 Well I'm personally surprised that he wasn't 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:36.210 tried as a witch. Too rich! Too rich. Okay, fair 00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:38.529 enough. It's not Germany, where apparently the 00:14:38.529 --> 00:14:41.629 rich could be taken for it. What I do find strange 00:14:41.629 --> 00:14:44.809 about it is where would the inspiration for this 00:14:44.809 --> 00:14:46.950 come from? Like, it doesn't seem anything in 00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:50.370 his background other than religion, maybe? His 00:14:50.370 --> 00:14:52.649 dad was a pastor, like the religion's in him 00:14:52.649 --> 00:14:55.330 from deep, and I do just think it might be maybe 00:14:55.330 --> 00:14:57.590 a midlife crisis mixed with some weird dreams. 00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:00.149 Remember, these are back in the days where religion 00:15:00.149 --> 00:15:03.200 was a lot more literal and everywhere, so If 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.360 you did get a dream, God was sending you those 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.899 dreams. You can put more stock in his dreams 00:15:08.899 --> 00:15:11.679 than I was putting because where else would he 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:13.899 have heard something like this? But I don't know 00:15:13.899 --> 00:15:16.320 what they're doing in this time. There are theories 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.840 out there at this time that basically every planet, 00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:21.659 every star, everything has life on it. The universe 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.639 is teeming with life. Yeah. So it's not unheard 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.279 of to think of there being habitants of other 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:29.399 planets. It's just he's the first to say he met 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.840 them and talked to them. OK, I like them. So 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.740 in the years that followed, Swedenberg published 00:15:33.740 --> 00:15:35.960 some of his most influential writings, Divine 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.870 Love. wisdom, divine providence, revelations 00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:41.169 unveiled, and marriage and love, the final of 00:15:41.169 --> 00:15:44.190 those being in 1768. Divine love and wisdom explored 00:15:44.190 --> 00:15:46.590 the very nature of God, arguing that God's essence 00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:49.330 is both love and wisdom, the source of all life. 00:15:49.509 --> 00:15:51.929 Divine providence tackled free will, evil, and 00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:54.129 the hidden spiritual laws that govern existence. 00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:56.990 Revelation, unveiled, returned to his method 00:15:56.990 --> 00:15:59.210 of uncovering the Bible's inner meanings, this 00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:01.610 time focusing on the book of Revelation. Here 00:16:01.610 --> 00:16:04.429 Swedenberg introduced what he called memorabilia, 00:16:04.710 --> 00:16:06.730 vivid accounts of a encounters with angels, demons, 00:16:06.909 --> 00:16:09.090 and spirits. And then there was A Marriage of 00:16:09.090 --> 00:16:11.850 Love. Despite its title, it was not just about 00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:14.350 earthly marriage. Swedenberg described true married 00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:16.409 love as the highest spiritual bond, one that 00:16:16.409 --> 00:16:18.350 continued beyond death. In heaven, he wrote, 00:16:18.509 --> 00:16:21.029 a man and woman who are truly compatible will 00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:23.490 recognize each other instantly and unite as one 00:16:23.490 --> 00:16:26.129 spirit. For Swedenberg, who was never married, 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:28.830 this teaching may have carried personal weight. 00:16:29.330 --> 00:16:31.289 All of Swedenberg's theological books were written 00:16:31.289 --> 00:16:33.559 in Latin and published outside of Sweden. most 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.460 often in London or Amsterdam. This was deliberately 00:16:36.460 --> 00:16:39.279 strategized to avoid Sweden's strict censorship 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.120 laws, which forbade publishing anything that 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:43.960 contradicted the teachings of the Lutheran state 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.019 church. But in 1769, two of his followers were 00:16:47.019 --> 00:16:49.240 charged with heresy after promoting his ideas 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.779 in Swedish. During the trial, Swedenberg's work 00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.279 was scrutinized. In 1770, the verdict came. His 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.919 books contained doctrinal errors but were not 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.419 outright heretical. Still, they were banned in 00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:03.360 Sweden and his followers lost their teaching 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.759 posts. Partly in response, Swedenborg began his 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.839 final great work, True Christianity, in 1771. 00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:12.019 It was both a defense and manifesto, laying out 00:17:12.019 --> 00:17:14.960 his vision for a quote, new church, end quote. 00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:17.359 Not a sect, but a new spiritual age in which 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.059 humanity would grasp divine truth more directly. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.519 True Christianity would be Swedenborg's last 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:24.720 book. The main text was printed in Amsterdam, 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.519 but he traveled to London to prepare a supplement. 00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:29.960 It was never published in his lifetime. In December 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.799 of 1771, he suffered a stroke. Though he partially 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:35.119 recovered, he seemed to know the end was near. 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:37.440 In February, when a friend suggested meeting 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.599 in six months, Swedenborg replied, quote, that 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:42.200 will be impossible, for I shall die on the 29th 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.019 day of the next month. And? True to his word, 00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:49.099 Emanuel Swedenberg died on March 29th, 1772 at 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:52.559 the age of 84. Geez. The U .S. wasn't even a 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.940 country at that point. Do we talk about what 00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:57.480 he was talking in his dreams to these people 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:59.980 about? I'm trying to keep it an overview of everything. 00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:02.140 I'm not going too specific into that. You know, 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.680 the other night I had a dream that Jupiter was 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.359 falling out of the sky and the world went into 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.380 chaos. I just want to put it out here for the 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.750 listeners. Okay. Being as the topic. of this 00:18:13.750 --> 00:18:21.660 episode. Just a non sequitur, of course. Editor's 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:24.000 note here from Taylor I've realized that it's 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.380 probably important to actually have quotes of 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:28.859 what Swedenberg said about other planets and 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.980 their inhabitants So I decided to add a few in 00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:35.059 the editing process So without further ado Swedenberg 00:18:35.059 --> 00:18:37.799 wrote about many of the planets and their inhabitants 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.099 of Mercury He wrote the spirits of Mercury are 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:43.660 very intelligent They care little for material 00:18:43.660 --> 00:18:45.759 things but are eager to learn about spiritual 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.240 and natural matters They said that on their earth 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.839 they do not speak much but transmit ideas by 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.619 a kind of thought speech. They mocked Earth's 00:18:53.619 --> 00:18:55.660 reliance on books. They made jokes about pieces 00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:57.880 of paper on Earth, knowing things that the people 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.859 there do not know. Of the people of Venus, Swedenborg 00:19:00.859 --> 00:19:03.900 wrote of two kinds of inhabitants. One is savage, 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:06.119 more than the rest of the inhabitants of the 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.960 other Earths. The other kind is gentle and humane. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.440 The savage group lived in forests and preyed 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.980 on others, while the gentle group lived separately 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.599 and were devoted to worship. Of the inhabitants 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.950 of Mars, he wrote, these are the best of all 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:22.650 in the solar system for they are in greater obedience 00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:24.849 to the Lord than the rest. They acknowledge and 00:19:24.849 --> 00:19:27.569 adore him and rejoice to be instructed by angels. 00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:30.009 Of Jupiter, he writes, the spirits of Jupiter 00:19:30.009 --> 00:19:33.529 are of a mild and gentle disposition. They detest 00:19:33.529 --> 00:19:36.289 hatred and in their world they live in mutual 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:38.529 love. They said that they do not allow anyone 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:41.289 to speak of God except in human form for they 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:43.750 know that the Lord alone is the God of heaven 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:46.529 and earth. They also were described as living 00:19:46.529 --> 00:19:49.230 simple lives and avoiding luxury and focusing 00:19:49.230 --> 00:19:51.750 on spirituality. Of the inhabitants of Saturn, 00:19:52.049 --> 00:20:03.559 he writes, He also claimed they were deeply contemplative 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:06.559 and spiritually oriented. He also wrote about 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.039 meeting beings from beyond our solar system. 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:11.819 He states that there are innumerable Earths in 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:14.960 the starry heaven, each inhabited by human beings. 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.799 The end of creation is the human race from which 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.619 heaven is formed. Swedenborg has a huge legacy 00:20:21.619 --> 00:20:26.319 and influence that moves forward from 1772. Swedenborg's 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.359 writings didn't end with his death. In fact, 00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:30.359 they sparked a movement that rippled through 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.279 art, literature, and philosophy for centuries. 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.460 Like I said earlier, the poet and artist William 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:37.019 Blake read Swedenberg early in his career. Though 00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:38.900 he later criticized him in The Marriage of Heaven 00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:41.779 and Hell, Blake still called Swedenberg a divine 00:20:41.779 --> 00:20:44.819 teacher and wove his ideas of heaven and hell 00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:47.319 and correspondence into his own visionary art. 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.180 In America, Ralph Waldo Emerson and the Transcendentalists 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:53.920 drew inspiration from Swedenberg's sense of nature 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.759 as a living symbol of the divine. Emerson praised 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.079 him as a, quote, colossal soul whose writings 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.920 open a new way of seeing the spiritual in the 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.579 everyday. Helen Keller was another surprising 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:07.940 admirer. She credited Swedenberg's writings with 00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:10.180 shaping her understanding of the afterlife and 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:12.460 giving her some comfort and clarity about the 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:15.200 spiritual world. Even the legendary folk figures 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.819 like Johnny Appleseed, John Chapman, was a devoted 00:21:18.819 --> 00:21:21.980 Swedenbergian. Was Johnny Appleseed a real person? 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:24.259 Oh yeah, he was. He was? Although everything 00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:26.720 he planted was cider apples, not actually eating 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:31.240 apples. He carried Swedenberg's books across 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.539 the frontier and shared them with his settlers. 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:38.019 Writers as diverse as Honoré de Balzac, Jorge 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:41.640 Luis Borges, and Robert Frost all engaged with 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.000 his ideas finding in Swedenberg a bridge between 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.599 imagination and eternity. So while Swedenberg 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:48.839 may have been dismissed by some as a dreamer, 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.359 his influence has been anything but fleeting. 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.200 His vision seeded the imagination of poets, philosophers, 00:21:54.539 --> 00:21:57.329 reformers, and mystics. proof that his strange 00:21:57.329 --> 00:21:59.970 journey between two worlds continues to inspire. 00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.509 Swedenberg's influence didn't stop with poets 00:22:02.509 --> 00:22:04.309 and philosophers though. In the 19th century, 00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:06.910 his visions were rediscovered by a very different 00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:09.750 audience. The occultists and spiritualists of 00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:12.890 the Victorian era. For these seekers, Swedenberg 00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:16.369 was more than a theologian. He was a proto -occultist, 00:22:16.430 --> 00:22:19.109 a man who had mapped the invisible worlds long 00:22:19.109 --> 00:22:22.329 before seances and spirit circles became fashionable. 00:22:22.589 --> 00:22:25.450 His doctrine of correspondence, the idea that 00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:27.849 every physical thing mirrors a deeper spiritual 00:22:27.849 --> 00:22:30.690 reality, became a cornerstone for mystics who 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.309 wanted to read the universe as a vast symbolic 00:22:33.309 --> 00:22:37.710 text. The Theosophical Society, founded in 1875 00:22:37.710 --> 00:22:41.609 by Helena Blavatsky, HPB, drew heavily on this 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:44.509 idea. Blavatsky herself called Swedenborg, quote, 00:22:44.650 --> 00:22:47.309 the greatest among the modern seers, end quote. 00:22:47.549 --> 00:22:50.730 And his descriptions of layered heavens and cosmic 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:53.539 laws resonated with her visions of a universe 00:22:53.539 --> 00:22:56.460 governed by hidden spiritual hierarchies. Aleister 00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:59.180 Crowley, though rarely citing him directly, inherited 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:02.180 much of the same esoteric soil. Swedenberg's 00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:05.259 layered heavens and existence on personal spiritual 00:23:05.259 --> 00:23:08.380 experience echo in Crowley's ceremonial magic 00:23:08.380 --> 00:23:11.799 with a K. Meanwhile, the Fox sisters whose spirit 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.400 wrappings in 1848 ignited the spiritual movement 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.519 were often compared to Swedenberg as the man 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.460 who had already mapped the afterlife they claimed 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:21.420 to contact, and Daniel Dunglass -Holme, Korean 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:24.259 medium, famed for levitations and seances before 00:23:24.259 --> 00:23:26.799 royalty, was Cassus Swedenberg's showman, Heir, 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:29.519 bringing to life in drawing rooms what Swedenberg 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:40.259 had described in books. At the same time, the 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:42.559 emerging new thought movement, with its emphasis 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.900 on the power of mind, positive thinking in the 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:46.980 unity of spirit and matter, found in Swedenborg 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:49.599 a kindred spirit. His insistence that divine 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.460 energy permeates all life and that thought itself 00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.000 shapes reality became a kind of blueprint for 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.019 metaphysical healing and self -transformation. 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.200 By the late 19th century, Swedenborg's books 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.619 were circulating not just in churches but in 00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:05.619 occult libraries, seance parlors, and esoteric 00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:08.240 study groups. To these readers, he wasn't a relic 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.119 of the He was a toolmaker, someone who had left, 00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:14.920 someone who had left behind a set of maps and 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.559 symbols that could guide mystics, mediums, and 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:20.859 visionaries into the unseen. In this way, Swedenborg 00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:24.200 became a bridge, a scientist mystic, of the 18th 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.559 century whose writings fueled occult revival 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.019 of the 19th century and whose ideas still echo 00:24:29.019 --> 00:24:31.579 in spiritual subcultures today. By the end of 00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:34.640 his life, Emanuel Swedenborg had written volumes 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.039 on science, theology, and the afterlife. He was 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.279 praised as a visionary and dismissed as a madman. 00:24:39.460 --> 00:24:42.240 But perhaps the most startling part of his legacy 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.400 is this. Centuries before UFO sightings or modern 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.559 science fiction, Swedenberg claimed to have met 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:49.859 beings from other planets in our own solar system. 00:24:50.019 --> 00:24:52.200 To him, the universe was alive with countless 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.599 worlds, each inhabited each part of a vast spiritual 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.700 order. So was he a prophet of cosmic truth or 00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:01.319 a dreamer lost in his own imagination? That's 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.539 for us to decide. What's certain is that Swedenberg's 00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:07.160 visions of heaven, hell, and even life beyond 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.579 earth still challenge us to wonder how thin the 00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:12.940 boundary really is between the known and the 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:16.019 unknown. So he's an interesting guy that neither 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:18.440 of us have heard of, but he's inspired pretty 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:20.880 much everyone. We've done an episode. Well, not 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.220 everyone. We've done more than four episodes, 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.809 guys. Yeah. The occult side. That's super interesting. 00:25:26.990 --> 00:25:29.670 I can't believe how far back that goes. I just 00:25:29.670 --> 00:25:32.650 I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind exactly 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:36.029 what the hell just happened and why he inspired 00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.450 so many people because basically he dreamed it 00:25:38.450 --> 00:25:42.069 and by that logic I'm a seer. I'm an important 00:25:42.069 --> 00:25:44.630 seer the way that I dream. The important part 00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:48.049 of seeing is telling and he told about his seeing. 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.880 see and i only got one idea out on this episode 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.779 but i promise you guys i'll be sharing more oh 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:58.720 good i think that's what everyone's thinking 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.859 okay it's so interesting actually i don't think 00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.900 he's an asshole he might be but i don't know 00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:09.420 if our modern -day concept of assholes within 00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:12.660 our reviews can really dissect people from this 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:14.400 era. I just don't think we can. No, I don't think 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.720 so. We don't have enough information. The witch 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:17.720 people, the people who hunted the witches did 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.319 that and they just burned them. Yeah, they did 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.880 so without fully knowing whether or not they're 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.079 an asshole. I think the witch burners were the 00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.619 assholes, to be honest with you, because they 00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:30.519 didn't fully find out if they were assholes or 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:32.400 not. I really hope that's not the twist we're 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.279 leading up to with Journey to the Fringe. Me 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:39.460 too. I guess we'll find out in our dreams. Well, 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.359 I will. You won't, because you don't remember 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.259 your dreams. Unless you tell them. But if you 00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:44.799 dream that, just don't tell them, okay, please? 00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:47.440 I guess I won't tell them, but... Okay. Who's 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.339 to say? I might share freely. Just like that 00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:52.200 last one, maybe I shouldn't have told you that 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.960 Jupiter falls out of the sky. Maybe it was better 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.660 you didn't know. And with that, I have been Taylor, 00:26:57.880 --> 00:26:59.619 here with Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:01.000 Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:06.539 next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:08.900 to the Fringe. If you have liked what you have 00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:12.859 listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or 00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:15.660 follow, depending on what venue you are listening 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.480 to us through. Also, please, if possible, leave 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.599 a five -star review, as that really helps us 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.240 in the algorithms. Should you wish to interact 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:26.980 with us, please check us out on your social media 00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:30.019 of choice. I bet you we are there. And if you 00:27:30.019 --> 00:27:32.099 really want to communicate with us and give us 00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:34.759 ideas for new episodes or tell us that were wrong 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.279 and terrible either way, please send us an email 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.240 at journeytothefringe at gmail .com. For now, 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:42.740 I'll see you in the next episode.