WEBVTT 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.599 from the unexplained to the mundane. Come join 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:13.859 us on a Journey to the Fringe. Hello and welcome 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.239 to Journey to the Fringe. And for just the small 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.160 fee of $10 ,000, you too can learn the secrets 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:24.420 of making $10 ,000 from us, the podcast host, 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:26.839 Journey to the Fringe. We are the podcast host. 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:29.160 Up during the fringe, Taylor or Chelsea? Yeah, 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:32.159 during the fringe. Very clever and secretive 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.679 in our own ways. Here today to do a Chelsea episode, 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:36.820 so I will leave it to her from here. I don't 00:00:36.820 --> 00:00:39.640 know, am I feeling non -secretive enough? Or 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:42.039 too secretive? Well, just don't reveal those 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:44.579 secrets that they gotta pay 10 grand for. Okay, 00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:48.039 okay, okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Everything else 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:52.909 can be opened. Hey, Taylor. I got a Taylor episode 00:00:52.909 --> 00:00:55.909 for you today, funny enough. I'm the one full 00:00:55.909 --> 00:00:58.850 of bad news these days, and that's unfortunate 00:00:58.850 --> 00:01:02.630 that I'm feeling so Taylor. Let's talk about 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:05.790 PFAS. Oh, good. And you know what? I asked Siri 00:01:05.790 --> 00:01:08.750 about PFAS the other day, and she pronounced 00:01:08.750 --> 00:01:12.810 it P -F -A -S. Oh, that's terrible. She's wrong. 00:01:12.890 --> 00:01:17.030 Yeah. Okay, good. I was really concerned that 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:21.159 she was right. No. I know you're thinking about 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.599 it. I know we're all thinking about PFAS. And 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.879 do you like things generally to not stick to 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:32.959 other things? Like things like the food to your 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:38.459 pan or rain on your jacket or red wine on your 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:42.200 couch or clouds to your airplane? I was gonna 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:44.819 say it depends. That's how it works, right? Yeah. 00:01:45.150 --> 00:01:47.590 I assume. I don't know, was that a problem in 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:49.810 like the 60s of clouds sticking to airplanes? 00:01:51.129 --> 00:01:53.469 Just constantly. That's like the reason the Rafe 00:01:53.469 --> 00:01:57.069 brothers only flew for like 100 meters because 00:01:57.069 --> 00:01:59.909 the clouds kept getting them and weighing them 00:01:59.909 --> 00:02:03.010 down. Yeah, see you're well read on the subject. 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:06.370 Yeah, yeah. I thought you would be. I mean, I 00:02:06.370 --> 00:02:09.069 would say sometimes yes. I think that is the 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:10.909 correct way to say that. Sometimes I don't want 00:02:10.909 --> 00:02:13.409 things to stick. Sometimes I do want them to 00:02:13.409 --> 00:02:15.949 stick. That's true. Sometimes you really want 00:02:15.949 --> 00:02:18.129 them to stick and they're not sticking good enough. 00:02:18.310 --> 00:02:20.969 Yeah. In which case don't listen to this episode 00:02:20.969 --> 00:02:24.090 if you're in that state of mind right now. Come 00:02:24.090 --> 00:02:25.810 back when you're feeling like you don't want 00:02:25.810 --> 00:02:30.270 things to stick. Or if you want bad news. So 00:02:30.270 --> 00:02:33.270 where is this going? Well, I'll tell you. Do 00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:36.409 I ever have a Taylor story for you today? Like 00:02:36.409 --> 00:02:40.430 I already alluded to you. One that is not only 00:02:40.430 --> 00:02:44.569 the origin story of PFOS. but also the story 00:02:44.569 --> 00:02:48.629 of Dupont and how they knowingly poisoned probably 00:02:48.629 --> 00:02:51.300 everybody in the world. Oh yeah, it's in all 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:55.319 of our blood. Yeah, yeah. We've been talking 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.979 about PFAS for a long time, so I assume you already 00:02:58.979 --> 00:03:00.960 have a working knowledge of it if you've been 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:03.479 listening to us for any amount of time, because 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:06.680 it comes up quite a lot on how we're basically 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:09.680 made of them at this point. And the only way 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.280 to get rid of them is to drain your blood. Not 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.080 all of it, just some of it. Just some of it. 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:18.379 Just some. And then you got to keep doing it. 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:21.840 So let's talk about this. The DuPont Company 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.080 of Wilmington in Delaware. I don't even know 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.159 what that means, but apparently it means something. 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.560 Formed back in the 19th century, 1802 to be precise, 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:36.620 by the French -American chemist. Here's a good 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:39.219 pronunciation for you because this name isn't 00:03:39.219 --> 00:03:45.229 even a word. Eleutherie? Irene Dupont de Nemours 00:03:45.229 --> 00:03:49.370 and this guy dies in 1834 so he doesn't even 00:03:49.370 --> 00:03:52.030 have a fucking thing to do with the story and 00:03:52.030 --> 00:03:54.250 it's probably for the best that he didn't know 00:03:54.250 --> 00:03:56.650 what happened to his company and he has nothing 00:03:56.650 --> 00:04:00.539 to do with it so Let's just move on. Over a hundred 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:04.280 years later, DuPont the company is desperately 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.620 trying to come up with a less toxic ultra. I'm 00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:09.379 just jumping right in. I don't even know what 00:04:09.379 --> 00:04:11.939 DuPont does for a hundred years. Unless you know. 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.659 They probably just speak French as far as I can 00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:16.730 tell. Yeah. Exactly, it doesn't even fucking 00:04:16.730 --> 00:04:20.009 matter. The company's desperately trying to come 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:24.350 up with a less toxic alternative than the refrigerant's 00:04:24.350 --> 00:04:27.110 methyl chloride and sulfur dioxide. Apparently 00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:32.310 pretty toxic. In 1983, Roy J. Plunkett was the 00:04:32.310 --> 00:04:35.209 scientist charged with finding the safer way 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:37.910 to cool foods and households throughout the U 00:04:37.910 --> 00:04:41.850 .S. It's all about refrigeration. He was experimenting 00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:45.709 with tetrafluorothylene, or TFE, which is a pair 00:04:45.709 --> 00:04:48.389 of double carbons each bonded with two fluorine 00:04:48.389 --> 00:04:51.790 atoms. However, when carrying out one specific 00:04:51.790 --> 00:04:54.990 test on the compound, he found that it had spontaneously 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:59.069 polymerized into a white waxy solid, having been 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:02.850 a colourless gas prior. The material turned out 00:05:02.850 --> 00:05:07.029 to be an inert fluorocarbon polyfluorothylene. 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:12.129 PTFE, that had super non -stick properties. That's 00:05:12.129 --> 00:05:15.370 right, Roy J. Plunkett is the man you can blame 00:05:15.370 --> 00:05:18.730 for inventing PFOS, the forever chemical. So, 00:05:18.930 --> 00:05:23.410 in 1945, DuPont trademarked the chemical Teflon, 00:05:23.509 --> 00:05:26.329 calling it, quote, the most slippery material 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:29.050 in existence, end quote. Then, just three years 00:05:29.050 --> 00:05:32.250 later, the firm was producing two million pounds 00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:35.870 of the chemical each year in its factory in Pertsburg, 00:05:36.149 --> 00:05:39.589 West Virginia. For DuPont, Teflon, which was 00:05:39.589 --> 00:05:42.470 used to coat pots and pans, proved to be a gold 00:05:42.470 --> 00:05:45.850 mine. Nobody wanted their stuff sticking to their 00:05:45.850 --> 00:05:49.470 pans. With sales peaking at roughly a billion 00:05:49.470 --> 00:05:53.170 dollars a year in 2004, according to the company's 00:05:53.170 --> 00:06:00.579 SEC filings. In 1951, DuPont created pure fluorolotatonic 00:06:00.579 --> 00:06:04.620 PFOA acid, which is often referred to as C8, 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:08.660 due to its compound holding 8 carbon molecules. 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:13.079 C8, which is a type of Pifa, went on to be used 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:17.079 to manufacture cling film, pizza boxes, electrical 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.300 cables, waterproof clothing, food wrappers, and 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:23.029 more. And like I said before, we've talked about 00:06:23.029 --> 00:06:25.389 them before. We'll talk about them again. These 00:06:25.389 --> 00:06:28.189 minuscule chemicals are now found in the blood 00:06:28.189 --> 00:06:30.990 of most people and animals around the world, 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:34.069 as well as pretty much all our food products. 00:06:34.589 --> 00:06:37.189 According to the U .S. Environmental Protection 00:06:37.189 --> 00:06:40.750 Agency, exposure to PFAS can lead to harmful 00:06:40.750 --> 00:06:44.269 consequences on a person's health. Peer -reviewed 00:06:44.269 --> 00:06:46.569 scientific studies have found that exposure to 00:06:46.569 --> 00:06:49.810 them can lead to reproductive effects. like decreased 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:52.370 fertility and an increase in high blood pressure 00:06:52.370 --> 00:06:55.310 in pregnant women to name a miniscule amount 00:06:55.310 --> 00:06:58.970 of things that PFAS cause. It also includes developmental 00:06:58.970 --> 00:07:02.050 issues for children including bone variations, 00:07:02.569 --> 00:07:05.430 behavioral changes, accelerated puberty, low 00:07:05.430 --> 00:07:07.850 birth weights, as well as increasing the risk 00:07:07.850 --> 00:07:11.410 of some cancers like kidney, prostate, testicular 00:07:11.410 --> 00:07:14.290 versions of the disease. They also interfere 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:17.410 with the body's natural hormones, risk obesity, 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:20.000 increased cholesterol, levels and reduce your 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.540 immune system's ability to fight off infections. 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.459 To name only a few. There's nothing good that 00:07:26.459 --> 00:07:28.620 these things do for you. Yeah, no it doesn't 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:30.980 make you like taller or something like that. 00:07:32.089 --> 00:07:35.170 Not in the least, but every effect that it has 00:07:35.170 --> 00:07:36.129 on you is negative. It makes you look cooler 00:07:36.129 --> 00:07:38.910 to everybody around you. It makes you look cooler. 00:07:39.490 --> 00:07:42.290 Oh my god, can you imagine if they tap into something 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:44.629 like that? Even at least cigarettes for a while 00:07:44.629 --> 00:07:47.970 at least made you look cooler. That's true. And 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:50.629 it's not like some nutty professor type thing. 00:07:50.870 --> 00:07:54.290 We just turn into like this cool guy that everybody 00:07:54.290 --> 00:07:58.370 loves. So back to DuPont. They're capitalizing 00:07:58.370 --> 00:08:01.709 on poisons. Let's talk about that. The trouble 00:08:01.709 --> 00:08:05.560 was that the compound, C8 that is, which has 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:08.040 since been linked to a variety of health risks 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.399 including cancer, liver disease, you know, everything 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.459 we just talked about right there, developmental 00:08:12.459 --> 00:08:16.220 problems, thyroid disease, plus more, escapes 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:20.339 into the air easily. In fact, C8 was often shipped 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:23.120 to factories pre -mixed with water to keep the 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:26.100 dust from workers' lungs. Why pre -mixed, you 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:29.139 ask? Do they know about the effects that these 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:32.600 are causing? Maybe we'll find out. Because it's 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:36.700 an extremely stable chemical, C8 does not biodegrade. 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:40.039 which is a super freaky thing. That's one of 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:42.740 the big problems that we have with it. And it 00:08:42.740 --> 00:08:45.080 living in our bodies, literally. Just forever. 00:08:45.419 --> 00:08:49.059 Instead, it bioaccumulates, building up in people's 00:08:49.059 --> 00:08:52.620 blood over time. So literally, you are just acquiring 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:56.500 more PFAS over time. And if they continue to 00:08:56.500 --> 00:09:00.320 drink, if you continue to drink, I'm going to 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:02.360 make this apply directly to you because they're 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:04.940 making you seem like it won't. If you continue 00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:07.320 to drink water or breathe air, laced with the 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:10.860 substance. Due to its ubiquitous use, the chemical 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:14.019 can now be found in trace amounts in the bloodstream 00:09:14.019 --> 00:09:19.600 of more than 90 % of Americans and even in umbilical 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.279 cord blood, breast milk, according to the Center 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.720 for Disease Control. Again, this is something 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.200 we've covered in many minis. I don't even know 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.940 if it's made it into an actual full episode until 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:34.059 now. Um, I think the recycling episode somewhat 00:09:34.059 --> 00:09:37.059 speaks to it. The plastic one, yeah. It's also 00:09:37.059 --> 00:09:40.159 been found in the blood of seals, eagles, dolphins. 00:09:40.820 --> 00:09:45.639 I would go out on a limb to say, yeah, it's everywhere. 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.399 They're making it seem like it's not everywhere 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.840 because it's naming specific things. Literally, 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:54.360 we can just say it's in everything. There was 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.899 a fringy mini recently that we did where it was 00:09:56.899 --> 00:09:59.860 that rocks were forming on a remote island in 00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:03.039 the middle of the Atlantic of class. Yeah, so 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.210 yeah. Plastic bottles are made of this. The chemical 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:10.490 is expected to stay in the environment for thousands 00:10:10.490 --> 00:10:14.009 of years. And I would go on a limb to say based 00:10:14.009 --> 00:10:16.809 on the information that I just said, that it 00:10:16.809 --> 00:10:20.190 bioaccumulates instead of not biodegrading, that 00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:22.730 it's gonna be much more than thousands of years 00:10:22.730 --> 00:10:25.769 affecting humanity. Concerns about the hazards 00:10:25.769 --> 00:10:29.610 posed by Teflon and CA began to garner public 00:10:29.610 --> 00:10:34.230 attention only about 15 years ago from this date, 00:10:34.669 --> 00:10:38.470 from today, 2025. The company issued a statement 00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:43.509 in 2019 about PFAS. So quote, this is from DuPont. 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:49.440 In June 2019, DuPont Demures Inc. was established 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.000 as a new multi -industrial specialty products 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:56.860 company. DuPont Demures has never manufactured 00:10:56.860 --> 00:11:01.490 PFOA, PFOS, or firefighting foam, it read. While 00:11:01.490 --> 00:11:05.710 DuPont is not a PFAS commodity chemical manufacturer, 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:09.350 it does use select PFAS compounds with industrial 00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:12.090 processes pursuant to relevant environmental 00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:15.309 health and safety rules and standards. Such uses 00:11:15.309 --> 00:11:18.889 are necessary to impart specific product performance 00:11:18.889 --> 00:11:21.590 criteria and only in products that are essential 00:11:21.590 --> 00:11:24.929 to safety and the critical functioning of society. 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.600 That wording really makes me angry. Our use of 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.080 PFAS is limited and managed as a substance of 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.700 concern, brackets SOC, end quote, consistent 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.539 with the company's chemical management policy. 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:41.700 Substance of concern. We are currently pursuing 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:45.700 alternatives to PFOS where possible. It continues. 00:11:46.059 --> 00:11:49.000 Additionally, we have rigorous systems, processes, 00:11:49.460 --> 00:11:52.279 and protocols in place to ensure that PFOS are 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.600 used safely, are controlled to the highest standards, 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:59.059 and are minimized in our operations. We support 00:11:59.059 --> 00:12:01.320 science -based efforts to develop guidelines 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:04.500 for PFAS and commit to meeting these requirements 00:12:04.500 --> 00:12:07.460 in our global operations. We will continue to 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:10.379 ensure our products and processes are fully compliant 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:13.399 with laws and regulations on PFAS. Safety, health, 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.259 and protecting the planet are core values at 00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:19.100 DuPont. We are committed to continuous improvement 00:12:19.100 --> 00:12:22.320 of our chemical stewardship process and to upholding 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.580 the highest standards for the safe operation 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:26.980 of facilities and the protection of our environment, 00:12:27.139 --> 00:12:29.299 our employees, our customers, and the people 00:12:29.299 --> 00:12:31.639 of the communities in which we do business." 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:34.600 End quote. What a bunch of bullshit. That's fun. 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:37.179 Sorry, I'm not spoiling anything from here by 00:12:37.179 --> 00:12:40.240 calling that bullshit, but I think you're already 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:47.419 getting the gist of it. By 2003, DuPont had disbursed 00:12:47.419 --> 00:12:51.399 almost 2 .5 million pounds of C8 from its Washington 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.919 Works plant into the mid -Ohio River Valley area, 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.799 according to a peer -reviewed study. The company's 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.159 shockingly bad disposal practices occurred before 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.980 US environmental laws were first written in the 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:09.840 1970s and included burying toxic waste in drums 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.019 along the banks of the Ohio River and dropping 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:15.980 barrels of it out into the open ocean, where 00:13:15.980 --> 00:13:18.860 it once caused a scandal when a local fisherman 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:27.490 dredged a barrel up in his nuts. countries. How 00:13:27.490 --> 00:13:29.870 many things we just put into the ocean is like, 00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:32.190 well, the ocean is the ocean. We'll never have 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:34.509 to worry about it. It's too big. Yeah, it's too 00:13:34.509 --> 00:13:36.629 big. Like, it just takes it and then we never 00:13:36.629 --> 00:13:38.990 have to think about it again. Or deal with the 00:13:38.990 --> 00:13:41.309 repercussions. Like, it's just ocean now. I think 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:43.889 it's off the coast of Britain. They buried in 00:13:43.889 --> 00:13:46.750 the ocean all of their, like, war chemicals. 00:13:47.149 --> 00:13:49.350 from World War II and there's like we don't have 00:13:49.350 --> 00:13:50.509 to worry about them because they're in the ocean 00:13:50.509 --> 00:13:54.129 now so exactly they don't belong to us they belong 00:13:54.129 --> 00:13:56.230 to no one now in the ocean all the way out there 00:13:56.230 --> 00:13:59.169 just remember that when somebody says we have 00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:02.029 too much regulation these days we had to put 00:14:02.029 --> 00:14:04.629 this into place because people just kept saying 00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.789 it's the ocean we can put stuff there yeah nobody 00:14:07.789 --> 00:14:09.809 even knows what's at the bottom of that thing 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:12.389 it's so big I don't even think there is a bottom 00:14:12.389 --> 00:14:19.929 yeah exactly yeah Hence why the ocean is in such 00:14:19.929 --> 00:14:22.769 rough shape right now. We're literally killing 00:14:22.769 --> 00:14:26.649 the ocean and everything in it. Yeah. I would 00:14:26.649 --> 00:14:29.330 maybe call it dead, but like it is dying for 00:14:29.330 --> 00:14:33.289 sure. Oh yeah. Which is super sad to think about, 00:14:33.529 --> 00:14:36.009 but yeah, here we are. Boy, we're talking plastics. 00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:41.419 That's just nice. Yeah. So yeah, and in more 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:46.240 recent decades burying it in local non -hazardous 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.399 landfills that is the drums filled with toxic 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:53.500 PFAS. Now information emerging from millions 00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:57.940 of pages of internal company reports reveal that 00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:01.139 several DuPont scientists and senior staff members 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:05.659 had for many many many many years either known 00:15:06.009 --> 00:15:09.909 or at least suspected that C8 was harmful. Yet, 00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:12.909 DuPont continued to use the chemical, putting 00:15:12.909 --> 00:15:15.970 its own workers, local residents, and the American 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:19.309 public and world and environment at risk. And 00:15:19.309 --> 00:15:21.250 the important thing here, when you're making 00:15:21.250 --> 00:15:25.009 a profit off it, the suspicions that it's bad 00:15:25.009 --> 00:15:28.149 are inconvenient. So we're not going to look 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:32.529 into them. Exactly. Because people over profit 00:15:32.529 --> 00:15:35.830 over people. I'm sorry. I got that very very 00:15:35.830 --> 00:15:38.950 wrong. Well, no, it's it's not profit over people. 00:15:39.049 --> 00:15:43.210 It's profit. Don't look at the other stuff. If 00:15:43.210 --> 00:15:47.029 it's not profit, it doesn't matter. And if it 00:15:47.029 --> 00:15:49.789 goes against the profit, you cover that up. Don't 00:15:49.789 --> 00:15:53.909 worry about it. I'm sure it's fine. Yeah. The 00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:58.309 document shows that signs of C8 toxicity began 00:15:58.309 --> 00:16:02.250 to emerge very quickly as DuPont scaled up its 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:05.490 Teflon productions in the 1950s. The company 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:08.649 funds its own safety testing laboratory, the 00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:11.789 Haskell Laboratory of Industrial Toxicology, 00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:15.230 in part to screen workers for signs of illnesses 00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:18.470 that might be tied to DuPont products. I'm just 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.350 going to add in here because I don't know that 00:16:20.350 --> 00:16:24.309 I put it anywhere else. 3M, the company, is also 00:16:24.309 --> 00:16:27.370 along for the ride with all of this. Yeah. In 00:16:27.370 --> 00:16:32.490 1961, company lab tests linked C8 exposure to 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:35.429 enlarged livers and rats and rabbits. DuPont 00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:38.730 scientists then conducted tests on humans, asking 00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.429 a group of volunteers to smoke cigarettes laced 00:16:41.429 --> 00:16:44.740 with C8. Nine out of ten people in the highest 00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:47.299 -dose group were noticeably ill for an average 00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.559 of nine hours with flu -like symptoms that included 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.480 chills, backache, fever, and coughing, the researchers 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.659 noted. 1961, experimenting on humans. Oh wow, 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.600 so they knew this pretty early. They're actually 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.419 doing this. Yeah, I know, right? I mean, the 00:17:02.419 --> 00:17:07.279 statement that they released in 2019 was just 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.440 dripping of bullshit. How were we to know? Yeah, 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.940 exactly. How were we to know? We don't have a 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:15.779 precedent of this over 50 years of learning about 00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:18.599 it. It's not like we tested it for ourselves. 00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:22.019 So, concerns about the potential toxicity of 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:25.359 C8 had been raised internally within DuPont by 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.039 at least 1954, leading DuPont's own researchers 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.240 to conclude by at least 1961 that C8 was toxic, 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:37.119 and according to DuPont's own toxicology section 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:39.960 chief, should be handled with extreme care at 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.240 the very least. So we can continue on. Well, 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:45.839 yeah, but that's only workers. Customers are 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.119 fine. I think that's how it works, right? It's 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.579 only people like who you have to pay to deal 00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:52.799 with it, who have to worry about the health implications, 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.900 not people who pay you for it. Yeah, exactly. 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:58.960 Not the people using it for sure. That's how 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.819 that works. So this is Bartlett's February 2013 00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:06.900 suit against Tupont Allege. So not to spoil anything, 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:12.029 but... It wasn't until the 1970s that DuPont's 00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:15.829 researchers began to understand that C8 was building 00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:19.349 up in the bloodstreams of workers and soon after 00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:22.029 they began to see troubling signs that the chemical 00:18:22.029 --> 00:18:25.400 could pose serious health risks. The stakes were 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:28.460 high. The Washington work plant where Teflon 00:18:28.460 --> 00:18:31.019 is manufactured was one of the biggest employers 00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:34.460 in the region. The plant currently employs more 00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:37.980 than 2 ,000 people, 3 ,000 if you include subcontractors 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.200 in a sparsely populated Appalachian community 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.180 alongside the Ohio River separating West Virginia 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:48.930 from Ohio. In 1981, the company ordered all female 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:52.470 employees out of the Teflon division after two 00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:55.190 out of seven pregnant workers gave birth to children 00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:57.910 with birth defects. One of those children, Buck 00:18:57.910 --> 00:19:00.990 Bailey was born with just one nostril and other 00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:03.529 facial deformities that required many painful 00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:08.069 surgeries to fix. In 1984, DuPont quietly began 00:19:08.069 --> 00:19:11.130 collecting tap water samples from Ohio and West 00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:14.890 Virginia, discovering that its chemical C8, PFOA, 00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:17.990 had contaminated local water supplies at levels 00:19:17.990 --> 00:19:22.170 eight times higher than normal. Internal documents 00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:24.450 revealed the company was more concerned about 00:19:24.450 --> 00:19:27.509 its public image than public health and deemed 00:19:27.509 --> 00:19:31.009 pollution control too costly. Instead of reducing 00:19:31.009 --> 00:19:35.349 C8 use, DuPont increased production while continuing 00:19:35.349 --> 00:19:37.930 to dump the chemical into the environment. This 00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:40.769 is fucked. I'm sorry. I know I wrote these notes, 00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:45.730 but this is absolutely fucked. In 1989, many 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:49.769 DuPont employees were diagnosed with cancer and 00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:53.009 leukemia. And they're just fucking dumping this 00:19:53.009 --> 00:19:56.990 shit into the river. The contamination came to 00:19:56.990 --> 00:20:02.609 light in 1998 when West Virginia farmer 1998 00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:06.109 they've now been dumping the shit into the environment 00:20:06.109 --> 00:20:10.789 30 years 35 years Since what? Where did we start 00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:15.190 out? 1945. Oh, 40, yeah. So 50 years almost. 00:20:15.450 --> 00:20:20.309 So 1998, a West Virginia farmer, Wilbur Tennant, 00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:23.869 sued DuPont after hundreds of his cattle died 00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:26.730 due to runoff from a nearby landfill. So he's 00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:29.930 living next to a factory. Tennant's lawyer, Robert 00:20:29.930 --> 00:20:33.589 Billet, uncovered thousands of pages of internal 00:20:33.589 --> 00:20:36.549 documents revealing that DuPont had known about 00:20:36.549 --> 00:20:39.599 C8's risk for decades. but kept it secret. The 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.839 documents showed alarming internal emails and 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.319 reports including concerns about the need for 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.339 gas masks and deliberate efforts to downplay 00:20:48.339 --> 00:20:51.000 the chemicals risk to regulators. This is fucked 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.700 up. So I don't have it in my notes, but I've 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.640 been listening to a few things here and there. 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:58.019 There's a lot to this story that we're not going 00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:00.079 to cover on here. I'm going to recommend something 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:01.960 for you to listen to at the end if you want to 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:05.480 look into it more. But this this farmers cows 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.559 were drinking from this runoff. They were dumping 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.980 into the river and their teeth would turn black 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:14.740 and they were essentially the cows were drinking 00:21:14.740 --> 00:21:17.940 from this and it killed them and just had these 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:21.890 horrific. effects on these cows, and that's what 00:21:21.890 --> 00:21:25.369 tipped this guy off. This actually leads to a 00:21:25.369 --> 00:21:29.089 class action lawsuit in 2001 on behalf of 80 00:21:29.089 --> 00:21:32.809 ,000 people exposed to C8 through their drinking 00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:37.269 water. The EPA also sued DuPont, resulting in 00:21:37.269 --> 00:21:41.950 a $16 .5 million fine, the largest civil penalty 00:21:41.950 --> 00:21:44.750 in the agency's history, still minor compared 00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:48.390 to DuPont's profits. At that point you don't 00:21:48.390 --> 00:21:51.990 deserve any profits. Who would hope, but that's 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:55.109 not how our system works. No, unfortunately not. 00:21:55.950 --> 00:22:00.089 DuPont agreed to a 100 million plus dollar settlement 00:22:00.089 --> 00:22:02.990 and funded a large health study. They've been 00:22:02.990 --> 00:22:06.170 doing this the whole time. Oh yeah, like 60 years, 00:22:06.329 --> 00:22:09.269 right? Yeah. No, they've been studying it the 00:22:09.269 --> 00:22:11.930 whole time. Like they clearly know that this 00:22:11.930 --> 00:22:15.759 is not good. At the very minimum, they know it's 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.480 killing a lot of people and it's not good. Which 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.819 makes it worse. Like, why are they studying it 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:24.980 and then not doing anything? Why? Like, why don't 00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:27.980 you just say we don't need to study this? Yeah. 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:31.799 Don't spend money on this, yeah. Why spend money 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:35.359 on this when no one's bad? We're just documenting 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.480 how bad we know it is. The independent C8 science 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.460 panel ultimately linked the chemical to six serious 00:22:42.460 --> 00:22:46.559 health conditions, ulcerative colitis, pregnancy 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.759 -induced hypertension, high cholesterol, thyroid 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.819 disease and testicular and kidney cancers. To 00:22:52.819 --> 00:22:56.279 name a few, blood tests from residents showed 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.549 C8 levels far above the national average. Thousands 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:03.430 of residents then filed personal injury lawsuits, 00:23:03.769 --> 00:23:07.769 including Carla Bartlett, whose 2015 victory 00:23:07.769 --> 00:23:11.430 set the tone for future cases. DuPont, meanwhile, 00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:14.269 shifted its liabilities to a spin -off company, 00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:18.609 Shemmers, and began marketing C8 -free Teflon 00:23:18.609 --> 00:23:21.410 products, though the safety of replacement chemicals 00:23:21.410 --> 00:23:25.390 remains unclear. I'm sure they know. Yeah, they 00:23:25.390 --> 00:23:28.670 apparently do study that for some reason. Just 00:23:28.670 --> 00:23:32.049 to make sure they're being evil, I guess. Exactly. 00:23:32.509 --> 00:23:36.109 Just to make sure that every non -stick fan is 00:23:36.109 --> 00:23:37.710 coded. We don't want it to be environmentally 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:41.230 friendly or to be beneficial in any way. Coded 00:23:41.230 --> 00:23:45.049 in so much evil. New possibility to suppress 00:23:45.049 --> 00:23:47.890 information for decades was partly due to weak 00:23:47.890 --> 00:23:53.309 U .S. chemical regulations. The 1976 Toxic Substances 00:23:53.309 --> 00:23:57.410 Control Act, which is the TSCA, if you like to 00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:00.289 put things in acronyms, heavily influenced by 00:24:00.289 --> 00:24:03.970 industry, and DuPont itself didn't require safety 00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:07.380 testing for most chemicals already in use. As 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:11.380 a result, chemicals like C8 remained unregulated 00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:15.000 until legal and public pressure mounted. Although 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.720 reform efforts have gained momentum, critics 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.160 argue proposed changes still fall short of giving 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:24.460 the EPA the power and resources needed to protect 00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.960 public health, which is a fucked sentence if 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.420 you ask me. The story of C8 reveals the deep 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:33.539 flaws in America's chemical safety laws and the 00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.670 influence of industry on regulation. There are 00:24:36.670 --> 00:24:40.569 now a ton of legal things going on around this 00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:44.289 in, well, within the last little while. In 2015, 00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:47.170 DuPont spun off its chemical division into a 00:24:47.170 --> 00:24:50.650 new company, Schemmers, as I kind of mentioned 00:24:50.650 --> 00:24:55.430 up above, and later Corteva. Corteva. Cortiva. 00:24:55.849 --> 00:24:59.670 Aimed to limit liability for PFAS -related harms. 00:24:59.930 --> 00:25:04.029 She pursued DuPont in 2019, claiming that DuPont's 00:25:04.029 --> 00:25:07.369 liability estimates were spectacularly wrong. 00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:10.829 The case was dismissed in 2020 over procedural 00:25:10.829 --> 00:25:14.289 issues. I mean, if anybody does know about the 00:25:14.289 --> 00:25:16.930 damage that they could do, technically is the 00:25:16.930 --> 00:25:18.930 company who's been researching it for like, I 00:25:18.930 --> 00:25:22.349 don't know, 80 years. So maybe we should listen 00:25:22.349 --> 00:25:26.029 to them on that. Yeah, maybe. I don't know, though. 00:25:26.230 --> 00:25:28.799 I don't know for sure. Yeah, you can't give them 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.680 that much damage. We couldn't. We've looked at 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.099 it for 80 years. It couldn't hurt that many people. 00:25:34.579 --> 00:25:37.000 But what about their bottom line? I don't think 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.079 you're getting the most important part. Fuck. 00:25:40.539 --> 00:25:43.799 The Environmental Working Group has documented 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.960 the decades long deception of chemical companies 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.940 like DuPont burying the truth that PFOS build 00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:52.660 up in our blood and present risk to human health. 00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:55.599 EWG, which is the Environmental Working Group, 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.329 I'm sorry I bring that on you like that. Created 00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:02.910 a timeline that shows by the 1960s, animal studies 00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:06.029 conducted by DuPont revealed that PFAS chemicals 00:26:06.029 --> 00:26:09.029 could pose health risks. I mean, you don't need 00:26:09.029 --> 00:26:11.049 to convince me at this point. I don't know. I'm 00:26:11.049 --> 00:26:13.710 still skeptical. You're still skeptical that 00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:16.230 they knew about it? Yeah. You really had to prove 00:26:16.230 --> 00:26:19.869 it. For decades, these corporations have knowingly 00:26:19.869 --> 00:26:22.569 contaminated our drinking water, food supplies, 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:25.529 and the blood of virtually every person on the 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:28.599 planet. Need I say it again? with these highly 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:32.480 toxic chemicals," said Scott Faber, EWG's senior 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.539 vice president for government affairs. It's long 00:26:35.539 --> 00:26:38.420 past time that the polluters pay for their malicious 00:26:38.420 --> 00:26:42.029 drive toward profits over public health. Way 00:26:42.029 --> 00:26:45.769 to go Scott Faber. The binding memorandum of 00:26:45.769 --> 00:26:49.329 understanding establishes an immediate cost -sharing 00:26:49.329 --> 00:26:52.190 arrangement, including an escrow account worth 00:26:52.190 --> 00:26:56.150 upward of $1 billion to cover potential future 00:26:56.150 --> 00:26:59.430 legacy PFAS liabilities from before the spinoff. 00:26:59.549 --> 00:27:02.089 Under the terms of the agreement, expenses will 00:27:02.089 --> 00:27:05.470 be split 50 -50 with DuPont and Cortiva responsible 00:27:05.470 --> 00:27:08.309 for half and Schemers responsible for the other 00:27:08.309 --> 00:27:10.869 half. Both companies have agreed to share the 00:27:10.869 --> 00:27:13.750 cost of certain qualified expenses over a period 00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:17.309 of no longer than 20 years or an amount over 00:27:17.309 --> 00:27:21.079 $4 billion. separately. DuPont, Corteva, and 00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.480 Schemers have agreed to settle ongoing matters 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.180 in the multi -district PFOA litigation in Ohio 00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:30.380 for $83 million. DuPont will contribute $27 million. 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:32.980 Corteva will contribute $27 million. Schemers 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:35.380 will contribute $29 million in the settlement. 00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.960 And the agreement resolves approximately 95 pending 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.359 casings as well as unfiled matters. That's all 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.819 I have. This is as every episode of ours is for 00:27:45.819 --> 00:27:49.700 the most part. It's literally a skim over of 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:54.099 what is going on right now. And there is a documentary 00:27:54.099 --> 00:27:56.859 right now that I want to recommend that is gonna 00:27:56.859 --> 00:28:00.519 cover a lot more than what I just went over if 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.519 you're interested in it. Is it Aaron Brockovich? 00:28:03.789 --> 00:28:08.190 by chance it is not okay it's called dark waters 00:28:08.190 --> 00:28:10.950 not what i was just about to say the devil we 00:28:10.950 --> 00:28:13.849 may know which is apparently another documentary 00:28:13.849 --> 00:28:17.009 that is an investigation documentary of the health 00:28:17.009 --> 00:28:20.230 hazards from teflon Probably go watch that. I 00:28:20.230 --> 00:28:23.750 might go watch it too. But Dark Waters is the 00:28:23.750 --> 00:28:26.750 one that I'm specifically referring to or was 00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:29.970 thinking of and it's talking about the legal 00:28:29.970 --> 00:28:33.509 fight against DuPont. So the devil we know might 00:28:33.509 --> 00:28:36.450 cover it a little bit differently. Dark Waters. 00:28:36.609 --> 00:28:39.069 It's all the people bringing against the class 00:28:39.069 --> 00:28:41.750 action towards DuPont that was started by that 00:28:41.750 --> 00:28:44.569 farmer, if you remember him. But yeah, super 00:28:44.569 --> 00:28:47.809 dark. These corporations, in my personal opinion, 00:28:47.930 --> 00:28:50.750 These guys just need to be shut down. Yeah. And 00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:53.210 like, we need to stress this. Like, you listening 00:28:53.210 --> 00:28:56.230 now are impacted by this. This is in your blood 00:28:56.230 --> 00:29:00.630 because of them. Like, it's an unfathomable percentage 00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:03.369 of people are impacted by this. And just like, 00:29:03.470 --> 00:29:06.630 yeah, they still exist. They're still profitable 00:29:06.630 --> 00:29:09.549 because this all came and passed. And I mentioned 00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:11.890 Erin Brockovich because the movie Erin Brockovich, 00:29:12.250 --> 00:29:15.329 that lawyer Erin Brockovich from the movie, who 00:29:15.329 --> 00:29:20.430 I keep saying her name a lot. It was 3M is one 00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:23.170 of the companies she went after. Oh, it is. Yeah. 00:29:23.210 --> 00:29:26.069 Okay. I can't remember Erin Brockovich that well, 00:29:26.230 --> 00:29:28.869 Erin Brockovich, but Erin Brockovich did that. 00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:31.710 She's actually still very prominent in like these 00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:35.150 types of things. Yeah. Is that PFOS as well? 00:29:35.150 --> 00:29:37.049 I'm not read up on it. I don't know if it's specifically 00:29:37.049 --> 00:29:39.710 that. I had to watch the movie again, but yeah, 00:29:39.710 --> 00:29:41.650 me too. It is that this is what she's doing. 00:29:41.650 --> 00:29:45.029 At least we know it's 3M. And 3M is along for 00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:47.759 the ride with DuPont on this because they were 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.440 also using the same chemicals. I just didn't 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.059 talk that much about them. Super crazy story. 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.180 This is something that the world is gonna be 00:29:56.180 --> 00:29:59.099 dealing with, who knows, for the rest of the 00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.799 world's existence. I don't know, like at least 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.690 a thousand years, isn't it? Like minimum? It 00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:07.690 said a thousand years in this, but it also said 00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:10.789 that it is... It doesn't break down. Like it 00:30:10.789 --> 00:30:13.430 doesn't break down. Then it said a thousand years. 00:30:13.430 --> 00:30:16.890 So that did not add up to me. It bioaccumulates. 00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:19.329 So it doesn't break down. Like you're just gaining 00:30:19.329 --> 00:30:24.049 more and more PFAS over your life and henceforth 00:30:24.049 --> 00:30:27.609 over the Earth's life. So it's never gonna go 00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:30.250 away and it's a poison. It's causing cancers. 00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:34.099 It's not conducive to life. It is killing. life, 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.390 they dumped it into waterways and oceans. And 00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:41.809 yeah, it's everywhere. We were cooking with pans 00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:43.950 that are on it. I'm pretty sure we still have 00:30:43.950 --> 00:30:46.490 Teflon. It's probably a little bit more regulated 00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:49.329 than it used to be now, but everyone was cooking 00:30:49.329 --> 00:30:52.109 with it. Everybody had it on their couch. Everybody 00:30:52.109 --> 00:30:54.549 had it in the takeout and the plastic bottles 00:30:54.549 --> 00:30:56.950 that they were using. It was advertised as a 00:30:56.950 --> 00:31:00.549 good thing they could upcharge for. Yeah. Remember 00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.130 those commercials? Oh no, I spilled wine on my 00:31:03.130 --> 00:31:05.849 couch and it just slid off. It didn't absorb 00:31:05.849 --> 00:31:08.819 into the couch at all. It's poison! It's gonna 00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:12.480 kill ya! But that was in the five - No, it wasn't 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.500 in the five print because they technically weren't 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.740 investigating it at that point. Yeah. But it 00:31:17.740 --> 00:31:20.920 also had been for like 60 years almost. Exactly. 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.900 We've known about this for a long long time. 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:28.359 Which is fucked. And just about surmises everything 00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:32.579 that's wrong with corporations that run the universe 00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:36.680 at this point. And I just, wow, I didn't suspect 00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.579 I would be the positive one this week. I know, 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:44.940 and last week. Yeah. Son of a bitch. But here 00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:49.940 we are. Yep. It's me now. Just happened to make 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:52.559 sense of the world, and yeah, like, if you need 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.880 it, like, I think it's probably important to 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.579 remind everybody, technically, you can get rid 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:00.039 of some of the PFOS in your body by donating 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:03.769 plasma. That has been shown to have no good effect. 00:32:03.849 --> 00:32:06.430 What about just blood? Just blood, okay? It still 00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.269 helps, it's not as good. Because you technically 00:32:09.269 --> 00:32:12.170 filter more of your blood when you do a plasma 00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:13.609 donation than you do with blood donation. Son 00:32:13.609 --> 00:32:17.650 of a bitch. So, here's a Chelsea problem. The 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:20.769 only plasma donation center is so far from me. 00:32:21.289 --> 00:32:25.470 So I can only conveniently donate blood, so this 00:32:25.470 --> 00:32:27.029 makes no sense. Ask them to do more and they 00:32:27.029 --> 00:32:30.859 give you some of it back. Can you please filter 00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:34.539 this and give it back? Okay, next time. I'm sure 00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:37.920 they'll be receptive to that. And for more tips 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.539 for your local blood donation clinic, I have 00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:43.599 been Taylor. You were Chelsea. We are Journey 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:45.339 to the Fringe. Thank you all for listening. We'll 00:32:45.339 --> 00:32:49.970 see you next week. Bye. Thank you for listening 00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:52.549 to Journey to the Fringe. 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