From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
us on a Journey to the Fringe. Here today talking
about our papal friends, the popes. I haven't
really been following THE news, but I recently
heard that Robert Evans was the one that was
elected the pope. Ain't Robert from the US was
elected pope. I heard that somewhere. Within,
you know, what I listen to and absorb. Not actual
news, but... I feel like if Robert was the one
to become Pope, we would get some significant
changes with regards to gas station, drugs, just
over -the -counter drugs, and machetes, which
would be a good thing for the Catholic Church.
I think we can all agree on that. It's not the
Pope that we needed, but it's the Pope we all
wanted. Or is it the reverse? It's the Pope we
needed. Yep. No, it's the Pope. We need it. I
got it mixed up. Damn it as I do I originally
wanted to start off with talking about the Pope
prophecies Which is a big thing that's been around
for thousands of years and then and by thousands
of beers I mean a thousand years now that I think
about it, but okay big difference You do. Thousands,
thousands. What's the difference? It turns out
this is probably too mainstream at this point
right now for this podcast for a topic. Chelsea
and I have our way of discerning these things.
And it's just too many people are talking about
the Pope prophecy. It's not mainstream, but it
ain't fringe. I had to change my route for this.
We're going to be talking about Pope based conspiracies.
I love that we've talked about Pope so much on
Journey to the Fringe. If you're ready for it,
we're going to go through. I'm ready for it.
I actually have more conspiracies I could have
gone through, but I kept it to three that we're
going to talk about. Hey, we've already talked
about popes. conspiracies so this would be a
continuation we're leaving out the nazi stuff
damn it the nazis are so popular this one's kind
of nazi based but it's not okay you always got
to assume there's nazis we start out in the 70s
in this one then we go back to the 1800s so it's
kind of around like we skip over the nazi bits
okay i'm excited for some pulp conspiracies let's
let us have some yes we're gonna start out with
the first pope before we were born we grew up
with pope john paul the second as like the pope
we knew yeah how much do you know about pope
john all the first nothing i can't say i know
i know anything about any of them even the one
we grew up with No, he's the one who brought
the Pope Mobile in. Pope John Paul II, he was
in an episode of Family Guy. I know I'm from
that, obviously. Anyhow, we're going to be talking
about Pope John Paul I, which I knew nothing
about. And we got to start this off. He was known
as the Smiling Pope, which is just like, that's
a creepy title. That is creepy. I gotta google
this. And it just makes me think of Ingrid Cold.
There's a reason Pope John Paul I and II took
the same name, and it turns out Pope John Paul
I had a very brief stint as Pope. I was just
pondering that actually. It took him four ballots
to get in. His name was Cardinal Albino. I shouldn't
say his name was Cardinal. His name was Albino
Luciani. He was a Cardinal and he was elected
Pope. I believe it was 1978. It doesn't have
it here. Despite the fact he had repeatedly claimed
he would refuse the papacy should it be offered
to him. Luciani. Really? accepted the position,
yeah, one of the weird things about this pope,
and assumed the position of Pope John Paul I,
and he stated, may God forgive you for what you
have done, end quote, when he was accepted. How
does he know what I've done? His reign lasted
33 days. That's how long he was - Oh no. That's
sad for that guy. Is it because he said that
he wasn't gonna take it? Is that the conspiracy?
That's actually nothing to do with conspiracy.
The conspiracy comes about the death thing here.
Oh, I thought it was - then I was gonna go to
is it about the smile? So I'm just guessing wrong.
He smiled at the wrong person? Yep. Too smiley.
Just gonna keep the shit beat out of him for
being too smiley. That happens to popes all the
time. Yep. And we're going to start out with
the lead up to Pope John Paul. So when Pope Paul
VI, who, sorry, aside, right now we have to talk
about this, what other job do you get selected
for? Where they say, by the way, pick your nickname.
How often does that happen? We'll call you exclusively
by it. I don't know, there could be one. If Pope
wanted to go by the name Daggers, would they
just do it? I would love that for a pope, first
of all, and there's so many good names, but why
do they do that? Is that the conspiracy? No,
that is not. I just, it's one of those weird
things where this is like, presidents don't get
to do that. They didn't say to Trump, by the
way, what's your nickname for this term? No.
And he didn't say, I want to go by Snake Eyes
because I'm so cool. It's just like, no other
job says by the way, get a new name now, just
we're gonna go buy it. You're right, like you've
got, you're gonna die by this name and you've
gone by something else for your whole life, but
now you're this. Why? Do you know? No, I have
no idea, but I don't want to look into it because
I really like the idea. Nah, I don't feel like
it either. The Cardinals, when they vote, they
then go to him and say, by the way, what are
we calling you from here on out? And he has a
small chance of going by like Hot Wheels or something
like that. Hot Wheels? The Pope in the wheelchair.
Hot Wheels. And you know, I hope none of them
are like me and you can't put me on the spot
and then I got nothing. I just look around and
feel like a lamp. No, you don't actually get
a pope name because you didn't say it in time
You would think that you would submit your pope
name first and then they would pick the coolest
name now that we're talking about it They could
actually vote on who they think has the coolest
pope name. Yeah, no for sure and you don't get
the pope name and do you think all of them are
like they have their pope name ready to go that's
a good that would if i'm ever up for pope i have
to have it ready to go you gotta have it right
now yeah which should mine be i don't know something
like i would go by arino agree because then you're
pope arino That is great. And it sounds kind
of Latin -y, so it sounds like you're kind of
going that way. But you have to have a first
or second? Or is it just if you're next up with
that name? No, because like the last one was
great. Do you know how many Poporinos are going
to come after you? Oh, man, so many, because
it's just going to keep going. Poporino. That's
a good one. It's just going to be all Poporinos
after that. It's so good. There's no other choice.
No other names. Who wants to be a Leo or a Jumbo?
Poperino the 16th. 375. And if we ever get a
female pope, there can be a Poperinat. Who are
we kidding? There'll never be a female pope.
No, there will not. Nope. Nope. Anyhow. Pope
Paul VI, he dies, and the College of Cardinals
hoped that they would find a friendlier pope.
Apparently he was an asshole. Oh! And also, you
know, I think I don't know why I didn't put the
years in here, but he's like coming not right
off World War II, but pretty sure it's the 70s
at least. So like he's Nazi adjacent at best.
I think they realized, man, there's a lot of
Nazi ties here. We got to make this look a little
better. Is that why he's smiling? They wanted
a new pope that would be approachable and give
the papacy a warmer air than he had given off
in the past. And they got their wishes with Pope
John Paul I. No idea why. Apparently he smiled.
Okay. Once? He was known for his humor and good
nature and John Paul the first became an instant
favorite, especially he had to become an instant
because he didn't have that much time, especially
amongst the younger members of the Catholic Church.
However, rumors quickly arose that there were
discontent about the choice with the College
of Cardinals. Some rumors suggested that certain
members of the college had pushed for a more
conservative voice and were unhappy with such
a modern, open candidate and others suggested
that Pope John Paul I wasn't papable. Yeah, I
think that's how you say that. It's P -A -P -A
-B -I -L -E. I think it's papable. Yeah, let's
go with that. Okay. Or didn't have the personal
qualifications for the job. Nonetheless, the
first few weeks of John Paul I papacy went smoothly
and were without incident. However, on the morning
of September 29th, 1978, I was right, it was
78. Sister Vicenza entered the Pope's room to
check on him. After noticing that he had yet
come out for his morning coffee. To her horror,
she found him dead in his bed. She quickly summoned
another sister to confirm what she'd found. A
younger nun named Sister Margarita. Both nuns
reported that the Pope's skin was cold and that
his nails were surprisingly dark. The official
report claimed that Pope John Paul I was found
lying in his bed with a book opened beside him
and the reading light on. The official cause
of death, according to the Vatican doctor, was
a heart attack occurring at 11 p .m., so like
eight hours earlier. Now, discrepancies in the
Vatican account of the evening surrounding Pope
John Paul I's death, its inaccurate statements
about who found the body and what he had been
reading, when, where, and whether an autopsy
had been carried out produced a number of conspiracy
theories from here. What? That's actually going
to be an important part that we'll talk about
once we get there. It should be noted. Oh, it's
the next slide, in fact. I'm sorry. That was
amazing foreshadowing. Ready for shadowing for
literally the next sentence. It needs to be noted
that in Vatican law, popes cannot be autopsied.
Super important, weirdly enough. So what are
they ruling this on? Just like... Looks like
a heart attack. Whatever the hell they want.
Yeah. We can't look inside, but looks like a
heart attack. After death. Pope's bodies are
allowed to be embalmed, but they can't be autopsied
because that's considered a desecration of the
body and thus illegal under papacy law. I don't
have the specifics of it. The Wikipedia article
has a link. I didn't go there. I just found that
really interesting. What else is in the papacy
law? You can't diddle with the Pope's body, but
like they can do it to everybody else. I don't
like your use of the word diddle. Why? I don't
know. It just gives me weird vibes. It was about
a pope! Okay, I'm on the Papacywah page. Oh my
god, every time I see anything with a pope in
canon, I just picture them being shot out of
a cannon. Can you just control that really quick
for diddling? Yep. Diddle. Not a thing. Oh man,
I was way off. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Because, again,
died suddenly in his sleep, discovered hours
later, no autopsy is done. Obviously people are
going to think this is a little weird. Yeah,
I think it's weird. People come up with conspiracies.
So in 1984, David Yalop wrote a book called In
God's Name and he proposed the theory that the
Pope had been in potential danger because of
corruption in the Vatican Bank. Oh no. Known
officially as the Institute for Works of Religion,
the Vatican's most powerful financial institution,
which owned many shares in Banco Abrozziano,
the Vatican Bank lost several hundred million
dollars during the scandal. The corruption was
real and is known to have involved the bank's
head, Bishop Paul Marchinkos, along with Roberto
Calvi of the Banco Abrozziano. Marchinkos, at
the time, head of the Vatican Bank, was indicted
in Italy in 1982 as an accessory in 3 .5 $5 billion
collapse of Banco Bresciano. Calvi was a member
of P2, an illegal Italian Masonic lodge, and
he was found dead in London in 1982 after disappearing
just before the corruption became public. His
death was originally ruled a suicide, and a second
inquest, ordered by his family, then returned
an open verdict, which I think means that they
weren't sure what killed him. In October of 2002,
forensic experts appointed by Italian judges
concluded that the banker had been murdered.
In his 2012 book, The Power and the Glory, Inside
the Heart of John Paul II's Vatican, Yallop writes
that Luciani had been given a list of 121 Masons,
and on September 28th, the day of his death,
had advised Jean -Marie Villot, at the time Cardinal
Secretary of State, with personnel transfers.
Yallop specifically summarized his conspiracy
theory in his 1984 book, Three Archbishops, Marchinkos,
Villot, and Cody, conspired with three moths,
Theologian Abbé Georges de Nantes? spent much
of his life building a case for murder against
the Vatican. collecting statements from people
who knew the Pope before and after his election.
His writings go into detail about the bank and
about John Paul I's supposed discovery of a number
of Freemason priests in the Vatican, along with
a number of his proposed reforms and devotions
to Our Lady of Fatima. In his 2017 book, The
Godmother Madre Pascalina, Friar Charles Myrrh
writes about the coincidence that Pope John Paul
I had attempted to discipline Cardinal Sebastiano
Baggio, who appointed many liberal bishops including
later the defrocked ex -Cardinal Theodore McCarrick,
and that Baggio was the last person to have seen
Pope John Paul I alive. And in another book,
When the Bullet Hits the Bone, which was published
in 2019, Anthony Ramondi says he helped his cousin
Archbishop Paul Machinkis kill the Pope by putting
Valium in his tea to knock him out and then poisoning
him with cyanide. The reason given was that John
Paul had allegedly threatened to expose, quote,
a massive stock fraud run by the Vatican insiders,
end quote. Ramondi says that plans were made
to assassinate John Paul II had the latter decide
to expose the fraud. Ramondi says that, quote,
if they take the Pope's body and do any type
of testing, they will still find traces of the
poison in his system, end quote. And when somebody
dies after 33 days and is found dead in their
bed and they can't do an autopsy, yeah. Yeah.
Many people are going to be suspicious. So that's
that's Pope John Paul the first conspiracies
there. I fully agreed that he was definitely
murdered. I could probably write a book on this.
Like that is the perfect place to kind of say,
oh, yeah, he was definitely murdered. Oh, definitely.
Especially you leave it open, especially when
you don't do an autopsy. Yeah. You're just leaving
yourself open for that. And I would like to say
that I thought of my pope name. Yes. Ina. Popina!
Popina, I like it. Thank you. Took a lot of brain
power, but now I feel prepared going into it
if I was to ever be elected pope. Good. That's
good. I feel like that's half the battle is being
confident enough to say I will be pope and this
will be my name. Yeah, and I feel like if they
change the way that they elect the popes and
they decide based on your name, I am a shoo -in.
Yeah. Yeah, except for all the people that are
listening. Don't steal my pope name. Don't do
it. I know it's good. That's the problem here
is we don't actually know how it's done. There's
that new movie that came out like right around
this time that actually outlines how it all works.
Really? I'll never watch that. Oh yeah, it's
an HBO story. I forget what it's called. Yeah,
it's not something I will watch. No, I'd rather
speculate. It's so much better. There's too many
shows that like they ruin basically things because
they explain things when it's so much better
left it to just wild imaginations. Oh yeah. Oh,
yes. Like these guys! Like these guys in this
burger! Exactly! It's all relates. Yeah, don't
do the autopsy, we need this! Yeah, exactly.
Okay, was that the whole conspiracy? Yeah, basically
he died and there's a whole bunch of different
people who claim, like, why he died. I love that
too long didn't read. Okay, what's the next one?
I'm excited. Now that I'm looking at how much
time we've gone through, I think we're only gonna
get through two of these, but that's okay. Because
the next one is Pope John Paul II. We're just
gonna keep these two guys together. Did he come
after, like right after the first one? Right
after, yeah. Really? Why did he go with that
name? He was just murdered. I know, and I actually
think it had a lot to do with the fact that that
was just the Pope, and he was carrying on his
papacy. I would have to look more into it, but
Pope John Paul I, being called the Smiling Pope,
and what Pope John Paul II does during his time,
makes me believe he was trying to carry on the
legacy of Pope John Paul I, being the Smiling
Pope. Yeah, I could see it, I guess, from the
little I know about the Pope. Releasing joker
bombs like throughout the towns and having people
sardonic grins on their faces. Okay, but that
sounds that's what I remember about Pope John
Paul II I don't know. I don't really remember
anything except I was there for his death. Oh
good, which doesn't sound ominous at all Did
you autopsy him? You're not supposed to. Nope.
You're not allowed to. That's where I learned
that. They said, ma 'am, get back. You are not
allowed to autopsy that boat. I was prepared
to though. Okay, and Chelsea, we almost had back
to back, really short Pope stance in the 70s,
because there was an assassination attempt on
Pope John Paul II in 79. Are we going to talk
about the Pope Mobile? We're not going to talk
about it specifically, except for right now,
where I say this is where the Pope Mobile comes
from, because he had an assassination attempt
on his life, but he does survive in it. So we
end up going actually like, I don't know, like
25 years with the same Pope. He had a long reign,
right? I guess. Oh, yeah. He made it into Family
Guy times. That's all I know. Yeah, that seems
like a long time. He was elected like shortly
after the death of Pope John Paul I. In 1979,
the New York Times reported that, and I don't
know how to pronounce this name. I truly am sorry.
I didn't look up how to say it. He's Turkish.
So I think his name is Aksay or Aksa. I'm going
to call him Aksa from here on out, whom the New
York Times called, quote, the self -confessed
killer of an Istanbul newspaperman, end quote,
have described the Pope as, quote, the mass leader
of the Crusades, end quote, and threatened to
shoot him if he did not cancel his plan to visit
Turkey, which went ahead in late November of
1979. So the Pope went and visited Turkey. Really
upsets this guy. Paper also said that the killing
would be in revenge for then the still ongoing
attacks on the ground. and mosque in Mecca, which
had begun on November 20th and which he blamed
on the United States or Israel. didn't really
matter, one or the other, they're the same. Beginning
in August of 1980, Agsa, under the alias of Gil
Perry, began criss -crossing the Mediterranean
region, altering passports and identities, perhaps
to hide his point of origin in Sofia, Bulgaria.
He entered Rome on May 10th, 1981. According
to Agsa's later testimony, he met with three
accomplices in Rome, one a fellow Turk and two
Bulgarians, with the operation being commanded
by Zilo Vazila, the Bulgarian military attaché
in Italy. He said that he was assigned this mission
by Turkish mafioso Bakir Selenk in Bulgaria.
According to Aksa, the plan was for him and the
backup gunman Oral Selik to open fire on the
Pope in St. Peter's Square and to escape to the
Bulgarian embassy under the cover of the panic
generated by a small explosion. On May 13th,
Aksa sat in the square waiting for the Pope to
arrive. When the Pope passed through a crowd
of supporters, Aksa fired four shots at 5 17
p .m. and critically wounded him he fled the
scene as the crowd was in shock and disposed
of the pistol by throwing it under a truck but
was grabbed by Vatican security chief Camillo
Sabin a nun and several spectators who prevented
him from firing more shots and escaping, and
he was arrested. By the way, if this was like
modern day, can you imagine like the rendition
on screen of this assassin being taken down by
nuns and bishops? I'm surprised it hasn't been
made into a movie still, actually. Like specifically
a Steven Seagal movie. Wait, who does Steven
Seagal play? The nun. Oh yeah, that makes sense,
it does. actually you know what it probably is
a made -for -tv movie in russia that guy's big
It's true, or Bulgaria, too. Of the four bullets,
two hit John Paul II. One struck him in the torso,
nearly missing vital organs, and a second hit
his left index finger. What? Two bystanders were
also injured. Anne Ordey of Buffalo, New York,
was struck in the chest, and Rose Hall of Massachusetts
was slightly wounded in the arm. The pope was
immediately rushed to the hospital while the
authorities combed the site for evidence. Salik
panicked and fled without opening fire. That's
the... I didn't know he was hit. Oh, yeah. He
probably was very close to death, like hitting
the organs. Yikes. Aksa was sentenced in July
of 81 to life imprisonment for the assassination
attempt, but was pardoned by Italian President
Carlo Azziglio Ciampi in June 2000 at the Pope's
request. And Chelsea, there's going to be a little
bromance that happens here, which is going to
just startle you. So we're just going to keep
going. He was then extradited to Turkey, where
he was imprisoned for the 1979 murder of left
-wing journalist Abdi Epeki, and two bank raids
carried out in the 70s. Despite a plea for early
release in November 2004, a Turkish court announced
that he would not be eligible for release until
2010. Nonetheless, he was released on parole
in January of 2006. However, near the end of
January of 2006, the Turkish Supreme Court ruled
that his time served in Italy didn't count towards
his prison sentence, so he had to go back to
jail the pope wanted to release him oh yeah no
the pope said release him from italian jail and
then he went back to turkey and they put him
back in jail the turks were just thinking logically
on that one they're like he's for sure criminal
oh yeah just he killed the pope there was all
this other crimes we're not just gonna forgive
him because this guy's clearly gonna do more
shit But he did get released from jail on January
18th, 2010 after 29 years in bars following the
shooting. Pope John Paul II asked people to pray
for my brother, Aksa, whom I have sincerely forgiven."
In 1983, he and Aksa met and spoke privately
at Rome's Robibia prison, where Aksa was being
held. Aksa reportedly kissed the Pope's ring
at the conclusion of their visit. The Pope was
also in touch with Aksa's family over the years,
meeting his mother in 1987 and his brother, Muzin
Aksa, a decade later. Although Aksa was quoted
as saying that quote to me the pope was the incarnation
of all that is capitalism end quote and attempted
to murder him oxa developed a friendship with
the pontiff and in early february 2005 during
the pope's illness oxa sent a letter to the pope
wishing him well I'm very confused about a lot
of those things that you just said. It's a little
confusing. Is that not like the most Jesus thing
that you could do though? Yeah, but the thing
that I find funny about it is the Pope's like,
I forgive you, release him onto with back into
the people. And then he just like does more bad
shit. I think you're a little confused. He didn't
do more bad shit. The bad shit that he did was
pre attempting to murder the Pope. Oh, he did
it before. It was in this second piece. I obviously
needed to go to prison for his crimes it's not
just I forgive you release him back into the
people because I am the Pope and I forgive you
yeah just like you said like this is so Jesus
of him but like he still needs to pay for that
crime by society standards so I just think it's
funny that he thinks that he overrules that he's
the freaking Pope as He says I'm family guy.
The other comment I was gonna make is that I
love that this guy's like, fuck capitalism. I'm
going after the pope, the center of capitalism.
Chelsea, he's not that off base when you look
at the history of Christianity in the Catholic
Church. No, I totally get it. I just think there's
probably like someone better to go after for
capitalism than like the pope. Like I get they're
corrupting, yeah, capitalism with the Catholic
Church as well. but I just feel like, symbolically,
I would go after somebody else. I think there's
a Luigi out there who had a better idea for thwarting
capitalism. I was literally just thinking that.
I think he chose a good one. You know what? Pope
Luigi might not be a bad way to go. No! Going
after an insurance CEO versus the Pope, maybe
there was something with that too. So, I don't
know. You're definitely gonna get more coverage
on the Pope. Yeah, but you know what? If you
actually look at Pope Francis over the time of
his reign, he actually, of modern popes, was
pretty anti -capitalist. He had a lot of statements
about how pretty evil capitalism was. Yeah, I
mean, you can say it, but still lead the Catholic
Church. Yeah, you can, but at least people point
their guns at insurance CEOs instead of people.
It just makes you a liar. I'm all for Popino.
I just need to do an aside right now. Popino's
the people's pope. That just felt so nice on
my lips to see. No, you gotta be people pope.
Yeah, Popino's the people's pope. Pope Eeple's
Pope. That's a great one. Eeple Pope. I know.
It's really nice. Yeah. I hope that they consider
that in my application to be the Pope. If you
don't take Popino, take Eeple's Pope. I'm Popino
the People's Pope. But like Pope Francis did
things like he would be given a Lamborghini and
he would autograph it and then auction it off
to charity. Okay, I was like, uh, the Pope driving
around in a Lamborghini sounds real nice. It
actually does if he has to wear the hat, like
part of the contract. Oh, yeah. And he was in
like, he was in daily contact with the Gazan
church heads to make sure people were doing okay
there. Which is like outstanding for him. Yeah,
I was actually like one of the one of the last
things he was doing was calling like talking
really I was gonna make sure they were doing
okay Interesting, which they weren't but he was
at least trying to do something I mean it does
take a lot of self -control as a pope to not
just get in that one of the people in Gaza who
are dying Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. He wins with
me on that one. Yeah, but Like from this assassination
attempt we talked about Chelsea the weird thing
is like what's like he kind of vaguely said there
was a motive behind it but it's kind of weird
just like oh yeah he's capitalist so we got to
shoot him. It's kind of vague so obviously conspiracy
theories jump up around this. So several theories
exist concerning August's assassination attempt.
One which was initially propagated in the American
media and strongly advocated Since the early
1980s by Michael Leaden and Ladine and Claire
Stirling, among others, was the assassination
attempt originated from Moscow and the KGB had
instructed the Bulgarian and East German Secret
Service to carry out the mission. The Bulgarian
Secret Service was allegedly instructed by the
KGB to assassinate the Pope because of his support
of Poland's Solidarity Movement. the most significant
threats to Soviet hegemony in Eastern Europe.
However, Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman instead
termed this as a spread of disinformation in
the news in their book Manufacturing Consent.
I'm guessing if you're listening to our podcast,
you've read that book. It is a highly influential
book. What is it called again? Manufacturing
consent. It's really important for understanding
how mainstream media works, particularly in the
1980s moving forward. So as there was no evidence
to support this claim, Wolfgang Ochner of The
Independent dubs this as one of the most successful
cases, certainly the most publicized of disinformation,
basically saying this was just to make the USSR
look bad. Not a lot of evidence behind this theory.
Now, OXA himself gave multiple conflicting statements
on the assassination at different times. His
attorney, Antonio Marini, stated, OXA, quote,
OXA has manipulated all of us, telling us hundreds
of lies, continually changing versions, forcing
us to open tens of different investigations,
end quote. Originally, OXA claimed to be a member
of the Monk the marxist popular front for the
liberation of palestine but that group denied
that he would ever had ties to them that doesn't
seem congruent with what you said about the pope
and gaza different pope pope francis like the
most recent one oh okay i totally misread that
Following the assassination attempt, Aksa made
claims while in custody that prior to the attempt,
he had made several trips to Sofia, Bulgaria,
where he claimed to have had contact with a Bulgarian
agent in Rome, whose cover was the Bulgarian
National Airline Office. Soon after the shooting,
Sergei Antonov, a Bulgarian working in Rome for
Balkan Air, was arrested based on Aksa's testimony
and accused of being a Bulgarian agent who mastermind
bought. In 1986, after a three -year trial, he
was found not guilty. According to the CIA's
Chief of Staff in Turkey, Paul Henze, Agsa later
stated that in Sofia, he was once approached
by the Bulgarian Secret Service and Turkish Mafiosi
who offered him 3 million German marks to assassinate
the Pope. Some writers, including Edward S. Herman,
co -authored with Frank Brodhead of the Rise
and Fall of the Bulgarian Connection, and Michael
Parenti believed Agsa's story was dubious as
Agsa made no claims of Bulgarian involvement
until he had been isolated in solitary confinement
and visited by Italian military intelligence.
On September 25th, 1991, former CIA analyst Melvin
Goodman claimed that his colleagues following
orders had falsified their analysis to support
the accusations. He declared to the U .S. Senate
Intelligence Committee that, quote, the CIA hadn't
any proof, end quote, concerning this alleged,
quote, Bulgarian connection, end quote. Neither
the Severino -Santiapisci Court nor the investigation
by Judge Franco Ionta found evidence that the
Italian intelligence planted Agsa's story. A
French lawyer, Christian Roulette, which is a
really weird name. Yeah, so? I don't know, it
sounds like a game, just Christian Roulette,
who authored books blaming Western intelligence
agencies for the assassination attempt, testified
in court that the documentary evidence he referred
to actually did not exist. A French newspaper,
Le Monde Diplomatique, alleged that Abdullah
Qatli, the leader of the Grey Wolves, had organized
the assassination attempt in exchange for the
sum of 3 million German marks for the Grey Wolves.
In Rome, Cotley declared to the judge in 1985
that he had been contacted by the BND, the German
intelligence agency, which would have promised
him a nice sum of money if he implicated the
Russian and Bulgarian services in the assassination
attempt against the Pope. According to Colonel
Alparslan Turks, the founder of the Grey Wolves,
Catley has cooperated in the frame of a Secret
Service working for the good of the state." End
quote. Unfortunately, I don't know who the Grey
Wolves are. I think it's just like a terrorist
group within Turkish areas. Next up, according
to Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, and
yeah, there's gonna be a lot of mispronunciations
in this one. Our friend on Spotify is gonna like
us a lot on this one. Documents recovered from
former East German intelligence services confirmed
the 1981 assassination attempt against Pope John
Paul II was ordered by Soviet KGB and assigned
to Bulgarian and East German agents with the
Stasis to coordinate the operation and cover
up the traces afterwards. Marcus Wolff, former
Stasi spymaster denied any links and stated that
the files had already been sent in 1995. In March
2006, pending the 2006 Italian general election
held in April, the controversial Matrocan Commission,
set up by Silvio Berlusconi and headed by Forza
Italia Senator Taolo Guzzanti, supported once
again the Bulgarian theory, which had been denounced
by John Paul II during this travel to Bulgaria.
Guzzanti stated that the leaders of the former
Soviet Union were behind the assassination attempt,
alleging that the leadership of the Soviet Union
took the initiative to eliminate Pope John Paul.
Because of his support for solidarity, relaying
this decision to the military secret service,
and not the KGB. The reports claim were based
on recent computer analysis of photographs that
purported to demonstrate Antonov's presence in
St. Peter's Square during the shooting and on
information brought by French anti -terrorist
judge Jean -Louis Brugier, a controversial figure
whose last feat was to indict Rwandese president
Paul Kagame on the grounds that he had deliberately
provoked the 1994 Rwanda genocide against his
own ethnic group in order to take power. According
to Le Figaro, Brugier, who was in close contact
with both Moscow and Washington DC, including
intelligence agents, was accused by many of his
colleagues of privileging the reason of state
over law. Both Russia and Bulgaria condemned
the report. Foreign Ministry spokesman Dmitry
Zancev said for Bulgaria, this case closed with
the course decision in Rome in March of 1986.
He recalled the Pope's dismissive comments during
his May 2002 visit to Bulgaria. Guzzanti said
that the Commission had decided to reopen the
report's chapter on the assassination attempt
in 2005 after the Pope wrote in his last book,
Memory and Identity, Conversations Between Millenniums.
The Pope wrote that he was convinced the shooting
was not AGSA's initiative and that quote, someone
else had masterminded it and someone else commissioned
it, end quote. Wow! The Mitch Rukin commission
also alleged Romano Prodi, a former prime minister
of Italy, was the KGB's man in Italy. At the
end of December 2006, Mario Scaramella, one of
the main informers of Guzzanti, was arrested
and charged among other things of defamation.
Cited by La Repubblica, Rome's prosecutor Pietro
Salviti, who was in charge of the investigations
concerning Scaramella, showed that Niccolo Pallari,
head of the Italian Secret Service, the Italian
Military Intelligence Agency, and indicted in
Abu Omar case, as well as Sismi No. 2 Marco Mancini,
who was arrested in July 6 for the same reason,
or some of the informers long -sized Scaramela.
of Guzanti. Milan's judges Armando Spattaro,
man these Italian names. I'm sorry it's just
this many of them at once. I did notice that.
Milan's judges Armando Spattaro in charge of
the Abu Omar case and Guido Salvini as well as
La Repubblica's reporter Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe
Davosno who discovered the yellow cake forgery
affair which I don't know what that is. That
is a great title. The investigation also showed
a connection between Scaramella and the CIA,
in particular through Filippo Marino, one of
Scaramella's closest partners since the 1990s
and co -founder of the Environmental Crime Prevention
Program, who came to live in the United States
in an interview Marino acknowledged an association
with the former and active CIA officers, including
Robert Lady, former CIA station chief in Milan,
indicted by prosecutors Armando Spataro for having
coordinated the abduction of Ahsan Mustafa Osama
Nasr that led to Abu Omar's case. In 2009, journalists
and former US Army military intelligence officer
John O 'Keller published spies in the Vatican,
the Soviet Union's Cold War against the Catholic
Church, mining mostly East German and Polish
secret police archives. Kohler claims the attempt
was KGB -backed and gave details in his book.
And the date of the attempted assassination,
May 13, 1981, was the 64th anniversary of the
apparition of the Virgin Mary to the children
at Fatima on May 13, 1987. On May 13, 2000, Cardinal
Angelo Sedano gave a public address in which
he linked then as yet unreleased third secret
of Fatima to the assassination attempt, while
describing the secret as a prophetic vision,
which does not describe the photographic clarity,
the details of the future events, he also identified
the prophecy's bishop clothed in white as the
Pope, and repeated John Paul II's impression
that a motherly hand had deflected Agsa's bullets.
The Vatican revealed the text of the Third Secret
itself the same year on June 22, 26, 2000. He
still got hit twice. Yeah, he still got hit twice.
The thing was deflected. Well, deflected from
killing him, I think they would say. Okay. We
do not know if those bullets were deflected by
them as a job. Sure, sure. And to other people
less worthy of God's protection. While in prison
on a remand, Aksa was widely reported to have
developed an obsession with Fatima. During the
trial, Aksa claimed that he was the second coming
of Christ and called on the Vatican to release
the Third Secret. His assassination attempt had
also come only 11 days after hijacking the Arlingus
Flight 164 by Lawrence James Doney, an ex -monk
who demanded the release of the Third Secret.
On March 31, 2005, just two days prior to the
Pope's death, Aksa gave an interview to the Italian
newspaper L 'Republica and he claimed to be working
on a book about the assassination attempt, L
'Republica quoted Agsa claiming at length that
he had accomplices in the Vatican who helped
him with the assassination attempt saying quote
the devil is inside Vatican's walls and quote
John Paul did release the third secret of Fatima
but I cannot find oh hold on here it is no no
that's not it I want to know the secret but Chelsea
I think that's a reasonable spot to end this
episode yeah I do like how many different options
there are just with these two people and their
conspiracies about things that happen to them.
They're not that far apart like a four year time
span to have this many conspiracies about the
pope and all the different options that come
about with it. It's great. It is great. There's
so many. We've already done an episode about
this so this would be a continuation and we could
just continue. We could be a pope secret podcast
but we're not. We're really good. We won't though.
Really, we could just make it like Pope -Nazi
connections. And that could be our podcast from
here on out. You would miss out on all the assholes
in the UFO community, which is our true passion.
We need those to breathe, yes. But anyhow, I
had fun with that. And there are more Pope conspiracies
that we can get to at some time in the future.
But for now, I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank you all for
listening and we'll see you next week. Bye. Thank
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