WEBVTT

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Okay, Chelsea, this is outside of my normal wheelhouse,

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but this title, we cannot avoid reading this

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story. So I'm just gonna... Based on the title?

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Yes, based on the title, we can't not read this.

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Fair enough. And it comes from the Salt Lake

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Tribune, written by Alyssa Grenfell on March

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28th, 2025. Article title. Voices. The Latter

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Day Saint Church must address its demon problem

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or more children will suffer. What does voices

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have to do with it? I don't know. There's a colon

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after voices so I don't know what that means.

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The horror -ridden stories of Ruby Frank and

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Lori Valodable share a common theme, demonic

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possession. The term exorcism conjures images

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of holy water, a brandish cross, and stoic priests

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wearing liturgical vestments. Despite conventional

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ties to Catholicism, casting out evil spirits

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is also a Mormon doctrine. As a child, I learned

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that in pre -earth life, Satan was cast out of

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Heavenly Father's presence along with many other

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spirit children. These spirits desperately wanted

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bodies and would occasionally possess the bodies

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of Heavenly Father's children on earth. My mom

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read from Matthew to teach me about Jesus casting

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the demons from a man and into a herd of pigs.

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My dad taught me that church founder Joseph Smith

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outlined very specific guidelines for how to

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tell a devil from an angel. The trick? Ask to

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shake their hand. I really wish she would have

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followed up on that, because now I don't know

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what I'm supposed to do with that information.

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Like, do they not want to shake your hand back?

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The problem is, I don't know which one wouldn't

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shake your hand. Uh -oh. Yeah. Like, is the result

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so clearly angel or devil that you don't even

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need to say it? I feel like you should have followed

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up that anecdote. Now I'm concerned that I've

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shook every devil's hand that I've ever met.

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Who are she hands with, at least? Hmm, I wonder

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if you'd know which one was the devil. Apparently

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all of them. Are they shaking the hand or are

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they not? I don't know. Or are the angels like

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too hoity -toity and they won't touch these brown

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dwellers that are us? Well, I'm at this point

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and I'm thinking it's probably everyone I've

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ever shaken hands with. The devil is a handshaker.

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Yeah, he does seem like he's a deal maker. Yeah,

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you only shake hands if you're possessed or a

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demon, right? I guess. But I guess that has weird

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implications for why you would want to shake

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their hand, too. Well, I didn't know that before

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this. Yeah. No, I just mean, like, if you're

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the one presenting it as a shaking hand, and

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if that's a devil thing, then they must associate

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you with the devil. Yeah. Now, if someone wants

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to shake my head, do I? God damn it. Why could

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she not just give us the answer to the anecdote?

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Okay, we bet maybe... She might be getting an

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angry email later on. Anyhow. The casting out

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of Satan is depicted in temple ceremonies of

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the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints.

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My husband recalls members of the church asking

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him to do the same while he was on his mission.

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As a woman, I was never personally allowed this

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authority. In footage provided by Kevin Frank

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in the new Hulu series Devil in the Family, we

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see a latter -day Saint Bishop visiting the Saint

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George home of Jodie Hildebrandt to help cleanse

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her home of demons. He's performing what is in

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effect in exorcism. Kevin Frank recounts spending

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hours attempting to cast the demons from Hildebrandt

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while living in Springville. His attempts at

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exorcism included listing every name of Jesus

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Christ he could remember. How many freaking names

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does this guy have? Ruby Frank wrote extensively

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about her own children's possession. In her diary

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she wrote that her 12 year old son, quote, emulates

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a snake, end quote. She said she made him stand

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for hours in the hot desert sun. She said that

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she withheld food. She said she cut him and rubbed

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cayenne peppers in his wounds. Jesus Christ.

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Ruby said she did not believe there's his name.

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The only name. She did not believe she was abusing

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her kids. She thought she was saving them from

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the devil. As Sherry Frank writes in her memoirs,

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quote, The House of My Mother, Ruby drew significant

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insight from the book Vision of Glory. She writes

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that Ruby and Hildebrandt were obsessed. This

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book, written by a Latter -day Saint, was the

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same book Lori Valodabel was reading by the pool

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when she was arrested in Hawaii. She said she

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believed the only way to rid her children of

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demons was to kill them. It's time for Latter

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-day Saint leaders to confront and reform the

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faith's teaching of demonic possession. This

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doctrine has convinced many members there are

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demons in their homes, in their walls, and in

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their children. These cases of abuse and murder

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can be directly attributed to this doctrine,

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and that the perpetrators of these crimes have

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stated this time and time again. Until the Church

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addresses this doctrine, or better yet dismisses

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it entirely, more children may suffer. I urge

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the Church to provide clear guidance and education

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to help members distinguish between the metaphorical

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teachings and literal interpretations. Faith

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should support mental health and safety, not

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endanger it. That's the end of it. Oh, you know

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what? It's an opinion piece. That's why it's

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voice. Oh, okay. I was like, can you just read

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the title one more time so I can try and figure

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out what's going on? Yes. Voice. The LDS church

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must address its demon problem or more children

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will suffer. It's her opinion piece. Okay. Yeah.

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Okay. Yeah. Nope. That does seem like a fitting

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title now. Alyssa Grenfell is a former member

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of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day

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Saints who currently lives in San Antonio, Texas.

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She's the author of How to Leave the Mormon Church,

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an ex -Mormon's guide to rebuilding after religion.

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Okay, so I just thought because we have done

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our exorcism episodes and that is the thing that

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I believe came up fairly prominently in that

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episode is like mental health can be mistaken

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for demonic possession and leads to very terrible

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things. Yeah, no, that did seem like a big mental

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health thing that you just read in that article

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is exactly what I was thinking. It's not just

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the mental health of the person who's possessed.

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It's the parents, it seems like as well. Yeah.

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How else can you justify doing something like

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that to your child? Yeah. You can't with, well,

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maybe you can with religion if you're religious

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enough, but you have to have some mental health

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illness in there yeah but that's the weird thing

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about religion like you're saving them for an

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eternity so no matter how much pain or suffering

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you cause them in this mortal life is likely

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worth it for the long term which is just that

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that doesn't sound great no no it doesn't sound

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great at all and yeah Yeah. Anyhow, you guys

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got 48 hours, which is basically not an eternity

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at all when you think about it in that sense.

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So we'll see you then. Don't go... Yeah. Bye.

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Bye.