Okay, Chelsea, this is outside of my normal wheelhouse,
but this title, we cannot avoid reading this
story. So I'm just gonna... Based on the title?
Yes, based on the title, we can't not read this.
Fair enough. And it comes from the Salt Lake
Tribune, written by Alyssa Grenfell on March
28th, 2025. Article title. Voices. The Latter
Day Saint Church must address its demon problem
or more children will suffer. What does voices
have to do with it? I don't know. There's a colon
after voices so I don't know what that means.
The horror -ridden stories of Ruby Frank and
Lori Valodable share a common theme, demonic
possession. The term exorcism conjures images
of holy water, a brandish cross, and stoic priests
wearing liturgical vestments. Despite conventional
ties to Catholicism, casting out evil spirits
is also a Mormon doctrine. As a child, I learned
that in pre -earth life, Satan was cast out of
Heavenly Father's presence along with many other
spirit children. These spirits desperately wanted
bodies and would occasionally possess the bodies
of Heavenly Father's children on earth. My mom
read from Matthew to teach me about Jesus casting
the demons from a man and into a herd of pigs.
My dad taught me that church founder Joseph Smith
outlined very specific guidelines for how to
tell a devil from an angel. The trick? Ask to
shake their hand. I really wish she would have
followed up on that, because now I don't know
what I'm supposed to do with that information.
Like, do they not want to shake your hand back?
The problem is, I don't know which one wouldn't
shake your hand. Uh -oh. Yeah. Like, is the result
so clearly angel or devil that you don't even
need to say it? I feel like you should have followed
up that anecdote. Now I'm concerned that I've
shook every devil's hand that I've ever met.
Who are she hands with, at least? Hmm, I wonder
if you'd know which one was the devil. Apparently
all of them. Are they shaking the hand or are
they not? I don't know. Or are the angels like
too hoity -toity and they won't touch these brown
dwellers that are us? Well, I'm at this point
and I'm thinking it's probably everyone I've
ever shaken hands with. The devil is a handshaker.
Yeah, he does seem like he's a deal maker. Yeah,
you only shake hands if you're possessed or a
demon, right? I guess. But I guess that has weird
implications for why you would want to shake
their hand, too. Well, I didn't know that before
this. Yeah. No, I just mean, like, if you're
the one presenting it as a shaking hand, and
if that's a devil thing, then they must associate
you with the devil. Yeah. Now, if someone wants
to shake my head, do I? God damn it. Why could
she not just give us the answer to the anecdote?
Okay, we bet maybe... She might be getting an
angry email later on. Anyhow. The casting out
of Satan is depicted in temple ceremonies of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints.
My husband recalls members of the church asking
him to do the same while he was on his mission.
As a woman, I was never personally allowed this
authority. In footage provided by Kevin Frank
in the new Hulu series Devil in the Family, we
see a latter -day Saint Bishop visiting the Saint
George home of Jodie Hildebrandt to help cleanse
her home of demons. He's performing what is in
effect in exorcism. Kevin Frank recounts spending
hours attempting to cast the demons from Hildebrandt
while living in Springville. His attempts at
exorcism included listing every name of Jesus
Christ he could remember. How many freaking names
does this guy have? Ruby Frank wrote extensively
about her own children's possession. In her diary
she wrote that her 12 year old son, quote, emulates
a snake, end quote. She said she made him stand
for hours in the hot desert sun. She said that
she withheld food. She said she cut him and rubbed
cayenne peppers in his wounds. Jesus Christ.
Ruby said she did not believe there's his name.
The only name. She did not believe she was abusing
her kids. She thought she was saving them from
the devil. As Sherry Frank writes in her memoirs,
quote, The House of My Mother, Ruby drew significant
insight from the book Vision of Glory. She writes
that Ruby and Hildebrandt were obsessed. This
book, written by a Latter -day Saint, was the
same book Lori Valodabel was reading by the pool
when she was arrested in Hawaii. She said she
believed the only way to rid her children of
demons was to kill them. It's time for Latter
-day Saint leaders to confront and reform the
faith's teaching of demonic possession. This
doctrine has convinced many members there are
demons in their homes, in their walls, and in
their children. These cases of abuse and murder
can be directly attributed to this doctrine,
and that the perpetrators of these crimes have
stated this time and time again. Until the Church
addresses this doctrine, or better yet dismisses
it entirely, more children may suffer. I urge
the Church to provide clear guidance and education
to help members distinguish between the metaphorical
teachings and literal interpretations. Faith
should support mental health and safety, not
endanger it. That's the end of it. Oh, you know
what? It's an opinion piece. That's why it's
voice. Oh, okay. I was like, can you just read
the title one more time so I can try and figure
out what's going on? Yes. Voice. The LDS church
must address its demon problem or more children
will suffer. It's her opinion piece. Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Nope. That does seem like a fitting
title now. Alyssa Grenfell is a former member
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day
Saints who currently lives in San Antonio, Texas.
She's the author of How to Leave the Mormon Church,
an ex -Mormon's guide to rebuilding after religion.
Okay, so I just thought because we have done
our exorcism episodes and that is the thing that
I believe came up fairly prominently in that
episode is like mental health can be mistaken
for demonic possession and leads to very terrible
things. Yeah, no, that did seem like a big mental
health thing that you just read in that article
is exactly what I was thinking. It's not just
the mental health of the person who's possessed.
It's the parents, it seems like as well. Yeah.
How else can you justify doing something like
that to your child? Yeah. You can't with, well,
maybe you can with religion if you're religious
enough, but you have to have some mental health
illness in there yeah but that's the weird thing
about religion like you're saving them for an
eternity so no matter how much pain or suffering
you cause them in this mortal life is likely
worth it for the long term which is just that
that doesn't sound great no no it doesn't sound
great at all and yeah Yeah. Anyhow, you guys
got 48 hours, which is basically not an eternity
at all when you think about it in that sense.
So we'll see you then. Don't go... Yeah. Bye.
Bye.