1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,600 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:16,640 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, blowing the whistle on the mistreatment of 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,640 whistle blowers. 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,000 Chelsea, that actually is the episode that we're doing. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,360 I just thought it would make a good opener. 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,960 You really did. 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,440 Blew it out of the water. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:32,840 The weird segue from coming out just after the episode on disclosure and that UFO coming 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,600 in 2027 where they're talking about whistle blowers being uneasy coming forward so they 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,440 had to submit it anonymously. 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,000 Well, I guess what we're going to be going over is stories why these people might feel 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,280 bad coming forward as whistle blowers, that something might happen to them. 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:53,320 We're going to talk about people who apparently committed suicide in the process of blowing 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,320 the whistle on a corporation that they worked for. 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,080 Okay, I'm ready for it. 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,440 I believe I have five examples of this happening. 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,440 What can you don't know? 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:03,680 It's either five or six. 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,240 I can't remember off the top of my head. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,360 It's a script that doesn't have the numbers at the top. 21 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,680 You would think it would but hey. 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,680 I limited it to everything 2000 onwards. 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,740 Some less recent, some more recent. 24 00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:23,880 Not all of them are going to necessarily have suicide not as the highest likelihood of what 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,000 happened but nonetheless it is always odd when people come forward and then mysteriously 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,920 they end up not being able to come forward anymore. 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,920 That's true. 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,920 Can I just ask a quick question? 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:34,920 Yeah, go ahead. 30 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,280 Do you be a whistleblower? 31 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,840 For doing this episode or do you just mean like in general would I be a whistleblower 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:40,840 if I got information? 33 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,400 Yeah, if you got information like what would it take for you to become a whistleblower? 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,880 I mean it really depends on the situation and is it harming somebody I think is always 35 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,240 the biggest thing. 36 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,720 Do you whistleblow if you knew UFOs existed? 37 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,000 That's not whistleblowing though. 38 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:04,160 You fabricated a document saying you selected all this whistleblower testimony. 39 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,720 The important thing with a whistleblower is normally should be handled through a proper 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:14,160 hierarchy but it's not being handled correctly so you have to go elsewhere to deal with it. 41 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,840 Whether that be the government, the police, a competitor, the media, you need to go outside 42 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,120 of your normal hierarchy to deal with it. 43 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,240 I think that's an easy enough explanation of what a whistleblower is. 44 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,320 Okay, when I hear that I don't think of UFO people as whistleblowers then because they're 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,160 not trying to go through proper channels to like fix something. 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,680 Like when you say that I think you're trying to fix something. 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,240 Well generally that is what you should be doing as a whistleblower. 48 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,240 They are trying to fix something. 49 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,360 I guess if you're doing it for the UFO purposes you're saying that how we're handling this 50 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,160 and the secrecy is the problem so they can't whistleblow through their hierarchy because 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,400 it is secrecy in itself that is their issue with it. 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Does that make sense? 53 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:01,240 Yeah, this is all very good conversation that I need to deal my way through right now. 54 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,560 And that does bring up a question is if you're anonymously doing it are you really blowing 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:06,640 a whistle? 56 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,720 Because I find that is an odd way to do it. 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,160 If there's no evidence outside of an anonymous whistleblower to show that there's a wrong 58 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,840 doing that needs to be fixed. 59 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:22,960 That's true but it makes me take pause if it's something bad enough that might cause 60 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,840 a big company to lose money or something like that. 61 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:35,840 Something that somebody wants to keep secret that would give me pause to not do either whistleblow 62 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,600 or give my name. 63 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,440 I should also say that just because you're whistleblowing doesn't mean that any illegal 64 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,840 activities have actually taken place. 65 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,200 You may just disagree with the practice that is at hand. 66 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:53,280 You may incorrectly understand what you actually saw or are saying and it may actually not 67 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,920 be any issue or it just might not be something that you agree with. 68 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,000 It's not wrong. 69 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,080 It's not illegal but it's something that you don't ethically agree with. 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,080 Okay. 71 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,560 An example might be hiring practices and just saying that we only hire people from Yale 72 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,720 that's not something publicly disclosed. 73 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:10,720 You can say that. 74 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,920 There's actually nothing legally wrong with that. 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,360 Or would I whistleblow something like that? 76 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,400 You might say that to the media and say like look I feel like this is a discriminatory 77 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:21,400 practice. 78 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,920 This is something that people should know about and hey that's not actually something that 79 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,920 you can't be discriminated against weirdly enough not being educated in the right place. 80 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,440 Although that brings up a whole issue with the rich being able to get jobs. 81 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,440 Let's leave that out there. 82 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,920 Okay, I think this provided me a lot of clarity going into episode about whistleblowing. 83 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:44,440 And of course where can any whistleblower episodes start but the Enron crisis of the 84 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,440 early 2000s. 85 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Chelsea, you've heard of Enron, right? 86 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,800 Yeah, they're the ones in the that oh no we haven't covered him in so long. 87 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,800 What's his name? 88 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Lawyer. 89 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,800 You're thinking of Exxon? 90 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:57,800 Oh, okay. 91 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,360 No, Enron also is an energy company. 92 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,320 Enron famously crashed hard in the early 2000s when it turns out that they were cooking 93 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,400 their books to make it look like they were incredibly profitable by basically shifting 94 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,440 all of their losses off to a bunch of shell companies to make it look like they're unprofitable 95 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,080 and it turns out they were not. 96 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Some people ended up going to jail for this huge deal. 97 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,080 And spoiler alert, there's going to be a lot of death in these stories and basically the 98 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,040 first person's name that I say in every story, they're going to die. 99 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,560 So just don't get too attached. 100 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,200 Okay, well thanks for spoiling the whole episode. 101 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,000 I won't get too attached to these first people. 102 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,760 John Clifford Baxter was an Enron executive when the company's massive criminal activities 103 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:38,760 were discovered. 104 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,800 By the way, you should know it's illegal to cook your books to make you look more profitable 105 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,120 than you are for a publicly traded company. 106 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,160 That should go without saying, but that's incredibly illegal. 107 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:50,160 I appreciate that. 108 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,400 But like, rich person illegal, not poor person illegal. 109 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:54,400 That's a different thing. 110 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,080 Okay, I could never commit it. 111 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,080 That's okay. 112 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,200 Earlier, he have reportedly challenged Enron's management team, including CEO Jeff Skilling 113 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,840 about the company's corrupt transactions and then resigned in protest. 114 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,440 Congress initiated hearings to investigate Enron. 115 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,360 Baxter was considered to be crucial to the case because his close relationship to Enron 116 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,800 CEO could have provided valuable insights into the company's criminal activities. 117 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,320 But two weeks before he was set to testify, Baxter was found in his car with a gunshot 118 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,320 wound to the head. 119 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,680 He said the death was a suicide, but many details of Baxter's death did raise doubts 120 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:28,920 about that conclusion. 121 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:29,920 And this is weird. 122 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,440 I'm going to go through this article that I found from that time, and then we're going 123 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,640 to go through the Wiki article right after that just to kind of give you a balance of 124 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,640 what they look like. 125 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:40,640 I'm interested. 126 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,400 I feel like the Wiki article is going to be very contradictory. 127 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,280 And weirdly enough, it's going to cite the article that we read for what they're saying. 128 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:51,280 So let's just follow along with that. 129 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:55,120 On the morning of January 25th, he was found in his car shot dead. 130 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,080 Police were criticized for calling it a suicide before investigating, so they kept the case 131 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,080 open. 132 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,060 The fact that it's still open more than two months later has made the cliff Baxter 133 00:07:03,060 --> 00:07:06,040 case prime fodder for murder conspiracy theories. 134 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,280 Reported CBS News correspondent Cheryl Atkinson adding to the mystery as a letter, perhaps 135 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,480 a suicide note that Baxter's wife is fighting to keep private. 136 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,680 Groups like the Texas Freedom of Information Foundation want at least part of it made public. 137 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,880 Quote, I believe very strongly that Enron is mentioned in it, and quote, said Joel White, 138 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,880 the group's attorney. 139 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,480 More questions are raised in police autopsy and lab reports obtained by CBS News. 140 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,840 Police won't talk while the case is open, so CBS News asked two experts, Independent 141 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,840 Coroner, Ciro Watt and former homicide detective Bill Wagner to review the reports. 142 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,400 While suicide appears likely, both experts say the document's making it impossible to 143 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:41,800 discount foul play. 144 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,640 Asked why he couldn't rule out murder, Wagner said quote, because murder can be made to 145 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,160 look like a suicide. 146 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Someone who is knowledgeable about forensics can very well have the ability to stage a 147 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,440 murder, commit a murder, and stage it to look as if it was a suicide, understanding what 148 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,000 the police are going to be looking for, end quote. 149 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,240 The experts found several things highly unusual. 150 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,360 First, the Peel Your Ammunition, not regular bullets, but something called rat shot. 151 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,960 Quote, this kind of ammunition cannot be easily or readily traced back to the gun from which 152 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,360 it was fired, end quote explained Wacht. 153 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,120 Quote, it's not as frequently used by people for any reason. 154 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,920 It's not the type of ammunition one finds in guns, it has a specific purpose, shooting 155 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,920 at snakes and rodents in order to get a distribution pattern of the small pellets contained within 156 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,800 the nose portion of the bullet. 157 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,840 It's not something that a person is likely to have and to use if they intend to kill 158 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,800 themselves, end quote said Wacht. 159 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Other unanswered questions include mysterious wounds on one hand and unexplained shards of 160 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,760 glass in Baxter's shirt. 161 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,240 All reasons still look deeper to rule out murder, but Wagner says the laring police 162 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,720 errors may make it harder to close the books on the Baxter case. 163 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,840 First, nobody wrapped the hands to preserve evidence. 164 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,400 Quote, when the body finally did arrive for the autopsy, the hands hadn't even been 165 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,040 bagged, end quote said Wagner. 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,360 Quote, I'm just amazed frankly that the hands were not bagged. 167 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,880 From what I've seen looking at the vehicle, it doesn't appear that they have fingerprinted 168 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:01,920 it either, end quote continued Wagner. 169 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,600 Quote, the police narrative is vague for this type of investigation, supporting to get a 170 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,520 timeline of the events that took place through the course of the investigation that appears 171 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,480 to be lacking in the original report from the crime scene. 172 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,200 Quote, being able to piece together what was done when, it's very difficult to understand 173 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:22,200 the events that took place and how they unfolded from that report, end quote said Wagner. 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,200 The gun and other evidence were moved before photos were taken. 175 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,640 The body was moved as well. 176 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,280 There's a puzzling mention of blood outside the car from someone laying Baxter on the 177 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,280 ground. 178 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,360 Wagner says that only should have happened if rescuers put him out to revive him, but 179 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,920 even that scenario doesn't add up. 180 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,840 The body is back in the car when the funeral home arrives, quote, and that's something 181 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,640 that is not explained in the police report. 182 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,920 I think there were some very important things omitted from the original investigation report 183 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,680 that should have been included in it. 184 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:53,920 I would like to have known what were the first couple things the fire department did to treat 185 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,360 the victim allegedly as he was sitting in the car and from that point, how did they change 186 00:09:58,360 --> 00:09:59,520 the initial crime scene? 187 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,520 What was moved? 188 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,120 Did they remove the body from the vehicle? 189 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,280 It's actually unclear how they treated the actual scene, end quote said Wagner. 190 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,400 Incredibly even though an autopsy is required by law, none was ordered by the time that 191 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,560 the decision was reversed, Baxter's body was being processed at a funeral home. 192 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:19,800 Coroner says police still won't tell her exactly who handled and who saw the body before it 193 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,000 finally reached her and won't even give her routine information. 194 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,320 The official finding on Baxter's death may well end up being suicide, but for now this 195 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,920 death certificate remains unsigned and at least one provocative question is left permanently 196 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:32,920 unanswered. 197 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,680 What exactly Cliff Baxter would have told investigators about the biggest corporate 198 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:37,680 scandal in history? 199 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:44,600 So he didn't actually whistle blow anything, he was just going to, he was set to testify. 200 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,560 This was in another article as well when talking with a former business associate two days 201 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,920 before his death, Baxter said that he might need a body art after agreeing to assist in 202 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,720 the Enron investigation. 203 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,400 But this is now from the Wikipedia article which gives different information. 204 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Which is so weird because you can't at all edit Wikipedia. 205 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,680 First off, very important, Baxter would suit personally when the Enron stuff was going 206 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:12,000 on for $30 million after the bankruptcy of Enron due to his sale of $30 million worth 207 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:17,040 of Enron stocks in the months prior to Enron's bankruptcy in December of 2001. 208 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,680 Fortune magazine writer Bethany McLean described Baxter in Enron the smartest guys in the room 209 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:26,200 as being a good deal maker but also being a manic depressive. 210 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,280 Skilling stated before Congress in February of 2002 that Baxter had visited Skilling shortly 211 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,960 after Enron had declared bankruptcy and was heartbroken by what had happened to Enron. 212 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,200 In his testimony, Skilling quoted Baxter saying quote, they're calling us child molesters 213 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,520 that will never wash off end quote. 214 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,160 Whoa, they're linking back to that article with the stuff? 215 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,640 No, that was before Congress. 216 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:48,640 Okay. 217 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,080 And sorry, this is in the Wikipedia. 218 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,520 This part is where it links back to the article. 219 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,840 I will tell you when it links back to the article. 220 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,400 On January 25th, 2002, after agreeing to testify before congressional committees in February 221 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,080 of 2002, after being subpoenaed regarding his knowledge and evidence of the scandal 222 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:08,600 of Enron, Baxter was found dead in his black Mercedes in Sugarland, Texas with a self-inflicted 223 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,600 gunshot wound. 224 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,240 The ammunition used was a Glazer safety slug, which at the time was misreported as a snake 225 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,240 shot. 226 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,640 That's the added context. 227 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,160 That cites back to the story we read, which doesn't bring that up at all. 228 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,160 No, it didn't. 229 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,640 Although they could be saying that that was misreported that it was a snake shot in that 230 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:26,640 article. 231 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,760 I can't quite understand what they meant by that. 232 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,080 Well, usually when you're citing something, you're citing it on Wikipedia to the source 233 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,080 that you found. 234 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,520 Yeah, which now that I'm reading it might be saying that this article misreported as 235 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,520 a snake shot. 236 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,520 Okay. 237 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,720 So that makes a little more sense. 238 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,120 But in any event, there are some weird peculiarities with that story. 239 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,120 Definitely. 240 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:53,160 Next up, do you remember the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and server of discontent with what 241 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,240 Iraq was doing in those times? 242 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,240 Oh. 243 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,120 How Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. 244 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,200 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 245 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,840 And that lead us to invade them. 246 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:01,840 Okay, that's. 247 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,640 This story has to do with that. 248 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,600 In 2003, David Kelly, a weapons inspector for the British government was thrust into 249 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,640 the public spotlight when BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan published their off the record conversation, 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,720 revealing that British government's investigators had not found any weapons of mass destruction 251 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,240 in Iraq, despite the Bush administration's claims otherwise. 252 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,240 Uh-oh. 253 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,680 Which, by the way, we never found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which justified 254 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,400 the war that was done there. 255 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,600 Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people died thanks to our invasion of that 256 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,440 country, which Saddam Hussein was probably horrible. 257 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,640 I don't think we needed to murder all those people. 258 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,000 We Canada did not invade them. 259 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,360 I don't think we. 260 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,440 You know, I can't remember. 261 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,800 I know we did Afghanistan. 262 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,480 I would have to actually look, but yeah, in any event, it was a horrible war. 263 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,840 I have to have my opinion on that, which was not just by in any way. 264 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,840 Horrible. 265 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,440 Unknown to Kelly, the journalist then published the information he had received from Kelly 266 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:55,880 and cited him as the source. 267 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,400 So this is an unbeknownst whistleblower, unbeknownst to him. 268 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:04,280 The British and American public, if not the world altogether, was outraged by the revelation, 269 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,320 which suggested that Bush administration and the British government were lying about their 270 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:08,880 reasons for inviting Iraq. 271 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,760 Kelly was summoned to appear at a committee hearing in British Parliament on July 15, 272 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:13,760 2003. 273 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,120 He was rigorously questioned about his conversation with the BBC journalist and why it was revealed 274 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,120 to the public. 275 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,120 Around the same time, Kelly met with British Ambassador David Broucher. 276 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,280 Kelly told Broucher that he had promised Iraqi officials that there would be no war if they 277 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,760 cooperated, but that he would probably be found dead if Iraq were invaded. 278 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,280 Two days after Kelly's testimony to the British Parliament, he was found dead outside his 279 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,280 home. 280 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,400 He had answered some emails that morning and then left for his morning walk. 281 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,280 Kelly's body was found in the woodlands area about 1.5 kilometers from his home. 282 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,360 He had ingested 29 pain pills and his left wrist was slashed with a knife he had owned 283 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,360 since childhood. 284 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,120 A lot of painkillers and cut his wrist. 285 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,600 An investigation was launched into the suspicious circumstances surrounding his death. 286 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,320 The official conclusion was that Kelly committed suicide after the announcement his medical 287 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,400 reports were sealed from public view for 70 years. 288 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,040 However, a series of doctors published a rebuttal of the cause of death in The Guardian, 289 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,280 arguing that the cuts on Kelly's wrist would not have resulted in a fatal amount of blood 290 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,280 loss. 291 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,120 They also claimed that the amount of painkillers that Kelly had ingested were not enough to 292 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,120 kill him. 293 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,520 As a result, Dr. Andrew Watt told British authorities that he believed Kelly had been 294 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,520 murdered. 295 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,040 Another leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard and the former Liberal Democrat, 296 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,080 MP Norman Baker, both thought Kelly was murdered. 297 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,000 In 2007, Baker published the strange death of David Kelly in which he argued that Kelly 298 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,880 did not die by suicide. 299 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,720 Kelly's family expressed their displeasure at the publication. 300 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,040 His sister-in-law said, quote, It's just raking over old bones. 301 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,120 I can't speak for the whole family, but I've read it all. 302 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,400 That is theories about Baker's death. 303 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,880 Every word and I don't believe it. 304 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,880 End quote. 305 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,600 In December 2009, six doctors applied to the Oxford Coroner's office to reopen the 306 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,080 inquest, claiming that there was insufficient evidence for Hutton's conclusion of suicide. 307 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,440 Their request was turned down on legal advice, and they were informed that the evidence relating 308 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,360 to Kelly's death was to be kept secret for 70 years. 309 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,600 Hutton stated that he did this, quote, solely in order to protect Dr. Kelly's widow and 310 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,520 daughter for the remainder of their lives, the daughters being in their 20s at the time. 311 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,680 From the distress, which they would suffer from further discussion of the details of 312 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,560 Dr. Kelly's death in the media, end quote. 313 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,720 That doesn't happen, though. 314 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,040 That it is weird. 315 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,840 Both very weirdly handled. 316 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,320 Next up, Chelsea, we're going to move to the wonderful world of AI. 317 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,320 Okay. 318 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,080 With a guy by the name of Sushir Balaji. 319 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Sushir Balaji spent four years as an artificial intelligence researcher at OpenAI. 320 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,160 Among other projects, he was involved in gathering and organizing the internet data used to train 321 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,160 GPT-4. 322 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,880 I should say OpenAI is the company who makes chat GPT, a language model used by the company's 323 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,960 online chatbot, chatGBT. 324 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,760 He also worked on a precursor model called WebGPT. 325 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:04,280 He left the company in August, 2024, after becoming disillusioned with its business practices. 326 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,240 After leaving OpenAI, Balaji said he had been working on personal projects. 327 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,880 He planned to create a nonprofit centered on machine learning and neurosciences, according 328 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:13,880 to his mother. 329 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:20,240 On October 23, 2024, New York Times profile, Balaji alleged that the products like chatGBT 330 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,360 violated United States copyright law because they're trained on products of business competitors 331 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:29,960 and because the chatbot's output can then imitate and substitute other products. 332 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,320 He said that chatGBT and similar chatbots are ruining the commercial viability of the 333 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,880 individuals and organizations who produce the data that the AI systems are trained on. 334 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:44,480 He was quoted as saying, quote, if you believe what I believe you have to just leave the company, 335 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,480 end quote. 336 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,400 New York Times piece contains a summary of Balaji's essay called When Does Generative 337 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,560 AI Qualify for Fair Use? 338 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,120 Published on his website earlier that week. 339 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:58,440 In the essay, he mathematically analyzed outputs of large language models such as chatGBT 340 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,960 and argues that they fail the four factor test for determining fair use under US copyright 341 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:03,960 law. 342 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,680 He further suggests that the arguments could be applied to other generative artificial 343 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,000 intelligences products as well. 344 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,320 At the time, open AI was being sued for copyright infringement by prominent authors and publishers, 345 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,600 including the New York Times. 346 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:22,680 In a November 18, 2024 court filing, Balaji was identified by the New York Times attorneys 347 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,760 as one of a number of people who might have relevant documents in the copyright case against 348 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:28,760 open AI. 349 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,960 Balaji had said that he would testify against the AI company. 350 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,280 Open AI argued that its software was, quote, grounded in fair use and related international 351 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,600 copyright principles that are fair for creators and support innovation and was trained on 352 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,040 publicly available data, end quote. 353 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,960 But on November 26, 2024, police said they found Balaji dead in his apartment in San 354 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,560 Francisco when they arrived there after being requested to conduct a well-being check. 355 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,840 He was 26 years old at that time. 356 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,880 Police claim that there was no evidence of foul play during the initial investigation 357 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,440 and the San Francisco chief medical examiner determined the death was a suicide, as has 358 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,320 the San Francisco police department. 359 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:13,040 San Francisco police have said the investigation is open and active as of January 20, 2025. 360 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,840 No official documents of the medical examiner's autopsy have been released. 361 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,440 The office said that they would be released once toxicology tests are completed. 362 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,720 Balaji's death has prompted public and media interest, particularly given his whistleblowing 363 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,720 claims and status as a custodian witness in a lawsuit against open AI. 364 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:36,000 A spokesperson for his former employer, Open AI, said he was devastated by the news of 365 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,000 Balaji's death. 366 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,320 Balaji's parents and friends believe the circumstances of his death are unclear. 367 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,000 His family and close friends report that he had had no history of mental health issues 368 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,160 or distress and was in generally good spirits after his birthday that week. 369 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,400 The parents say they hired an independent investigator to determine the cause of death. 370 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,200 They have a private autopsy conducted by Dr. Joseph Cohen, which Balaji's mother said, 371 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,440 quote, doesn't confirm the cause of death stated by the police, end quote. 372 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,280 Balaji's parents believe their son was murdered by a firearm and have called for an FBI investigation. 373 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,120 They cite evidence from the independent investigation such as a downward bullet travel path that 374 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:19,440 would be impossible by a self-administered gunshot and unexplained evidence like a tuft of hair 375 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,840 found at the scene that did not belong to Sushir. 376 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,760 Balaji's mother declined to share the second autopsy with the Mercury News and Washington 377 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,160 Examiner to San Francisco newspapers. 378 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,920 And then a few assholes that I don't actually like but their names come up. 379 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,640 Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, California Congress and Rolcona and San Francisco Supervisor Jackie 380 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,440 Fielder have publicly echoed Balaji's parents' skepticism and calls for an investigation. 381 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,360 Balaji's mother discussed her son's death on Carlson's podcast, the Tucker Carlson 382 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,640 show on January 15th, 2025. 383 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,040 I hate that I had to bring that up, but whatever we're here. 384 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,400 Doubts about the cause of death spread on social media even before Balaji's parents had 385 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,160 made their public statements. 386 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,800 California State University East Bay lecturer Nolan Higdon described the public discourse 387 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,280 as quote baseless conspiracy theory and quote, and mentioned social media monetization schemes 388 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:13,000 and advertising revenue as a financial incentive for social media influencers and podcasters 389 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,960 of propagated and a quote end of this story. 390 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,600 Because this one's still unfolding. 391 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,840 Next up Chelsea, of course, none of these could be complete without us focusing in on the 392 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,120 Boeing scandal. 393 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:25,720 And I know you're aware of this one. 394 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,880 I was waiting for this one to come up. 395 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,520 Chelsea, did you know there are cases involved with the Boeing scandal? 396 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,720 I mean cases. 397 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,360 As in more than one whistleblower we're going to be talking about. 398 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:40,480 The other ones definitely have been in the news, but this one is quite prominent, not 399 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,480 at the moment, but in recent moments. 400 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,600 I think Boeing is still trying to figure out how the hell they're going to be a company 401 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,600 from here. 402 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,000 Well, let's face it, they're just going to get bailed out by the government, but they're 403 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,200 not really recovering well from this. 404 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,520 They're saying a lot of pretty bad stuff. 405 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,600 And people keep mysteriously dying. 406 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,600 Case in point, we're going to talk about John Barnett. 407 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,560 John Barnett was born February of 1962 in Mount Shasta, California. 408 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,680 In 1988 he moved to Camano Island where he lived for 25 years. 409 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,920 Joined Boeing in 1988 where he became a quality inspector. 410 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,760 Barnett worked his way into a leading position while at the Boeing Everett factory, which 411 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:20,400 produces the 747, 767, and 777 planes, where he said he was impressed with Boeing's attention 412 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,760 to quality and safety. 413 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,480 While there he developed an 11 course curriculum for training other auditors. 414 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,160 From 2010 to 17 he worked as a quality control manager for Boeing's South Carolina plant, 415 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,720 which produces the 787. 416 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,120 Barnett blamed a culture shift between the Everett and South Carolina plants on the 417 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:39,600 latter's management being from the military, where he said he was pressured not to document 418 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,040 defects and follow non- Boeing procedures. 419 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,880 He characterized the defense-based management's motto as, what we're in Charleston and we 420 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,080 can do anything we want. 421 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,720 And there wishes to, quote, push planes out the door, make the cash register. 422 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,200 Ring, end quote. 423 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,520 He later said the factory and its management, quote, the whole place smelled of French fries, 424 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,760 end quote, referring to the practice power mechanics whose previous experience was in 425 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:01,760 fast food. 426 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,760 Barnett said he was demoted and removed from management in 2013, for which he filed an 427 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,760 ethics complaint. 428 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,920 He was reassigned by the same manager that demoted him to another department in 2015. 429 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:16,640 In 17, Barnett filed an FAA Air 21 whistleblower complaint against Boeing with OSHA, which is 430 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,280 occupational health and safety. 431 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,280 In 2013, a senior manager downgraded Barnett's employment level for, quote, using email to 432 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,560 express process violations, end quote, in place of face-to-face communications, which 433 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,120 Barnett took to mean he shouldn't put problems in writing. 434 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,520 The manager also pushed Barnett to get better at working in the gray areas and help find 435 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,160 a way while maintaining compliance. 436 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,000 Barnett said that management was pressuring and encouraging workers not to document defects, 437 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,080 resulting in inaccurate build records, a violation of FAA regulations. 438 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,680 He also said that Boeing was implementing a program that allowed mechanics to inspect 439 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,480 and verify their own work, eliminating quality inspection employees altogether. 440 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,880 During the investigation of a Spear AeroSystem section, with four quality inspectors, Barnett 441 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,440 documented 300 defects, for which he was told they found too many defects. 442 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,720 On a follow-up trip, Barnett was excluded and only two inspectors were given a truncated 443 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,920 timeline that only allowed them to document 50 defects, a reduction for which they were 444 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,720 given accolades. 445 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,960 Barnett attributed the pressure for management to overcome production delays with the 787, 446 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,400 stating that documenting defects slows down the assembly line. 447 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,520 In April 2024, another quality manager in Everett, Washington, Rome Myers, who had been 448 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,600 at Boeing for 30 years, told the New York Times that the airline's manufacturer re-prioritized 449 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,540 schedule over quality. 450 00:24:33,540 --> 00:24:39,240 Also in April of 2024, quality engineer Sam Sellepour, Sellepour, whatever, reported similar 451 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,240 issues after a 2021 delay of the 787 due to an unacceptable fuselage gap. 452 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,120 Sellepour claimed that to address the flaws of the company took shortcuts that forced 453 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,400 the gaps closed instead of engineering new parts. 454 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,160 Sellepour has also filed a whistleblower complaint with the FAA against Boeing. 455 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,280 Barnett claimed that in 2016, a senior manager installed a scrapped, dented hydraulic tube 456 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,280 in a plane. 457 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,120 He filed a complaint with Human Resources, Boeing stated that they had investigated and 458 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,480 did not substantiate those claims. 459 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,680 He raised issues of more missing defective parts to management, fearing that they had 460 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:13,720 been installed. 461 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,320 He claimed his bosses directed him to finish paperwork on missing parts without determining 462 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:18,320 where they ended up. 463 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,000 No action was taken by managers. 464 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,040 Barnett claimed workers did not follow procedures to track components, allowing the loss of 465 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,880 parts and later installations of defective parts. 466 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,440 He stated that these installations were to prevent delays on the production line, as 467 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,040 was the lack of following procedure. 468 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,920 In 2017, Barnett's team found that 25% of the oxygen systems on the 787 would fail to 469 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:44,160 send oxygen through the cylinders to passengers in the case of an emergency. 470 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,200 Barnett said that his report to management was stonewalled, so he alerted the FAA. 471 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,080 Boeing's internal investigation found malfunctioning oxygen masks. 472 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,320 A 2017 FAA report determined that at least 53 quote non-conforming end quote parts were 473 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:03,320 missing in order Boeing to take remedial action, which is a big deal in the airline industry. 474 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,040 There's a lot more that he complains about. 475 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,280 We're just going to skip down a little bit. 476 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,920 In 2019, Barnett came forward to discuss numerous malpractices of Boeing with British broadcaster 477 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,600 BBC, including overworking employees and not providing proper maintenance to aircrafts. 478 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,280 In 2019, Barnett appeared in New York Times article raising additional quality issues 479 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,920 with his former facility. 480 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaking about the metal shavings, which I skipped over, unfortunately, Boeing subsequently 481 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,520 denied his allegations. 482 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,960 However, a 2017 review by the FAA had upheld several of Barnett's concerns. 483 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,400 It was discovered that over 50 quote non-conforming end quote plant components in the facility 484 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,560 were considered missing as their location could not be found. 485 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,400 In 2021, after a four year long investigation, Osser closed the whistleblower complaint in 486 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,400 favor of Boeing. 487 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,920 Barnett and his lawyer appealed the decision and amended the lawsuit, claiming the firm 488 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,960 had quote undermined his career because he had raised safety concerns at the Charleston 489 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,320 plant end quote. 490 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,880 His attorney Robert Turkowitz criticized the effectiveness of whistleblower court systems 491 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,280 because they do not have the power to subpoena documents from the defendant. 492 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,160 In December 2021, the United States Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation 493 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,960 released a whistleblower report determining that the FAA failed to administer adequate 494 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,840 oversight to address concerns from Boeing and FAA whistleblowers. 495 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,880 Boeing had settled a criminal charge with the United States Department of Justice in September 496 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,920 of that year for conspiracy to defraud the government regarding fatal design flaws in 497 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,360 the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system of the 737 MAX. 498 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:31,920 I did not know about that. 499 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,360 In early 2024, Barnett issued further warnings regarding Boeing's work culture and vehicle 500 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:44,120 safety following Alaska Airlines flight 1282 in which a door was blown off. 501 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,920 Barnett was in Charleston, South Carolina the week of March 12, 2024 for his deposition 502 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,080 stemming from his 2017 whistleblower complaint against Boeing. 503 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,640 Before his death, he had given a deposition and had been undergoing direct examination 504 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,520 by his own legal team and cross-examination by Boeing's. 505 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,720 According to a March 2024 interview with his lawyer, Brian Knowles, Barnett was supported 506 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,960 to report for the third day of his deposition for further questioning but did not show up 507 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,840 or respond to calls the next day. 508 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,560 At 9.42 a.m. on March 9, a hotel staff member heard a gunshot. 509 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,280 At 10 a.m. Barnett's attorney called the hotel asking for a wellness check. 510 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,880 He was found dead shortly afterwards in the hotel parking lot in his truck with a single 511 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,740 gunshot wound to the head. 512 00:28:26,740 --> 00:28:31,360 He had his legally owned pistol in his hand with his finger still on the trigger and left 513 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:35,960 a suicide note in the passenger seat on which he wrote, quote, I can't do this any longer. 514 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,640 I pray Boeing pays, end quote. 515 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,360 Video surveillance showed Barnett left the hotel on the evening of March 8 but returned 516 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,560 a few minutes later and reparked remaining inside his vehicle. 517 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,040 No activity was observed of Barnett or his vehicle until the following morning on March 518 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,840 9 when at 7.20 a.m. the vehicle lights blinked on and off. 519 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,480 This vehicle was found to be locked and the key fob was in Barnett's pocket. 520 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,560 On March 11, the Charleston County Coroner's office characterized his death as self-inflicted. 521 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,000 After requests from his family and Barnett's attorney, the Charleston Police Department 522 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,960 investigated the circumstances that led to his death. 523 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,120 They found Barnett to be going through a period of serious personal distress and on May 17 524 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,760 they concluded that Barnett's death was a suicide related to chronic stress, anxiety, 525 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,400 and post-traumatic stress disorder caused by the whistleblower case. 526 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,520 There's video on the trap that you never looked. 527 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:28,720 That's a long time though. 528 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,480 He's in there for over 12 hours. 529 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,080 I find that strange. 530 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,840 During the investigation, the police obtained his cell phone and medical records which showed 531 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,840 participation in the ongoing legal battle with Boeing exacerbated. 532 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,320 Numerous mental health issues related to the whistleblower case he was suffering from. 533 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,040 Fingerprint analysis found only Barnett's and a ballistic report confirmed the trajectory 534 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 of the bullet was consistent as originating from Barnett's hand. 535 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,320 As of March 12, the lawsuit against Boeing was pending, continuation under Barnett's 536 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,400 estate. 537 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,400 His attorney stated that the case would still go to trial in June. 538 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,760 My question is, we're thinking there's ulterior motives to this but there's no one else seen 539 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:07,760 on the video. 540 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,560 That's what I'm gathering from that. 541 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,320 Now we are going to go through the conspiracy theories for it though. 542 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,320 Great. 543 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:14,320 Because I'm just like what? 544 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:15,320 Yeah. 545 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,560 It seems like why would this guy be fighting so hard that all of a sudden just give up? 546 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,040 That is two out of three days and it would basically be the end because that's deposition. 547 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,720 You might have to talk in court but it's not going to be as hard as deposition. 548 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,600 There is a conspiracy out there alleging that Boeing had assassinated Barnett, spread widely 549 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,120 after a woman who identified herself as a friend of Barnett said that Barnett told her, 550 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,720 quote, if anything happens to me it's not suicide, end quote. 551 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,240 She said, quote, they made his death look like a suicide, end quote. 552 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000 I have no idea who this she is. 553 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,880 It's just what the Wikipedia article says. 554 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,880 Boeing released a statement saying, quote, we are saddened by Mr. Barnett's death and 555 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,280 our thoughts are with his friends and family, end quote. 556 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,480 Knowles and Turkowitz told CBS News that Barnett was in very good spirits and really looking 557 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,120 forward to putting this phase of his life behind him and moving on, those being his 558 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,120 lawyers. 559 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,560 We didn't see any indication he would take his own life. 560 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,440 No one can believe it, end quote. 561 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,040 Turkowitz called for a police investigation into his death but later told Fox News that 562 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,600 he did not believe Boeing had orchestrated his death. 563 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,960 This family said that, quote, he was looking forward to having his day in court and hoped 564 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,320 that it would force Boeing to change its culture. 565 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,080 And he was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to 566 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,600 the hostile work environment at Boeing which he believed led to his death, end quote. 567 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,600 His attorney said in a statement after the release of the coroner's report, quote, Mr. 568 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,240 Barnett's last words make clear that while Boeing may not have pulled the trigger of the 569 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,160 company's responsible for his death, end quote. 570 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,440 It should be noted though, after this death, 10 new whistleblowers from Boeing and this 571 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600 other company that we're going to talk about end up coming forward. 572 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,960 So this doesn't exactly stop anything. 573 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,320 Are we going to talk about more because I know there's more deaths associated with the 574 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,320 Boeing? 575 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,640 I could only find the two. 576 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680 We're going to talk about Joshua Dean now. 577 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,360 And there's not a nice Wikipedia story about it. 578 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,720 I found a good NPR article but because it's an article that's set up in a weird way, we 579 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,640 talk about the death very early on and then we get to everything else. 580 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,640 Okay. 581 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,600 This one's weird though because it's not a suicide. 582 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,600 Interesting. 583 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,320 Quote, he passed away yesterday morning and his absence will be deeply felt. 584 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,480 We will always love you, end quote. 585 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,480 Dean is and Carol Dean Parsons said via Facebook. 586 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,000 This is Joshua Dean. 587 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,200 Dean was one of the first to flag potentially dangerous defects with 737 Max Jets at Spirit 588 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,800 Aero Systems, a major Boeing supplier that was spun off from the playmaker in 2005. 589 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Now federal investigators are looking more closely at Spirit and Boeing to understand what 590 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,720 went wrong with the door panel that blew off an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 Max in midair 591 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,720 in January. 592 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,280 The latest chapter in a long and troubled relationship between the two companies. 593 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,840 Quote, our thoughts are with Josh Dean's family. 594 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,240 This is a sudden loss and it's stunning news here and for his loved ones. 595 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,800 End quote said spirit spokesman Joe Buccino in a statement. 596 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,760 Dean and Barnett were both represented by the same lawyer, Brian Knowles. 597 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800 That being the last guy we just talked about. 598 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,480 Quote, Josh's passing is a loss to the aviation community and the flying public. 599 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,480 End quote. 600 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,480 Knowles said in a statement. 601 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,920 Quote, he possessed tremendous courage to stand up for what he felt was true and right 602 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,360 and raised quality and safety issues. 603 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,000 Aviation companies should encourage and incentivize those that do raise these concerns. 604 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,000 End quote. 605 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Dean's mother and stepfather describe him as a studious and odd-est man, a health nut 606 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,040 who rarely drank and attended church regularly. 607 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,320 His career was helped by his prodigious memory and attention to detail. 608 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,400 They said, quote, he was just amazing. 609 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,560 He could read something and then he could just tell you word for word what he read 610 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,840 days later. 611 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,040 End quote said when we are Dean stepfather, Dean started feeling sick around two weeks 612 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,400 prior to this story. 613 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,520 I believe this was about April of 2024. 614 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:03,040 His mother, Virginia Green, told NPR he stayed home from work for a couple of days, but things 615 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,040 got worse. 616 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,320 Quote, Sunday, April 21st is when I got a call from him that he was really sick and having 617 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,320 trouble breathing. 618 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,680 Said he went to an immediate care and they told him he had strep throat. 619 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,680 End quote. 620 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,680 Green said. 621 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,160 Green went to check on her son at his home telling him to call her if he felt worse. 622 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,160 Quote, he did call me a couple hours later, told me he was in the emergency room and he 623 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,760 was scared and they found something in his lungs. 624 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,760 End quote she said. 625 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,480 He tested positive for influenza B. He tested positive for MRSA. 626 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,440 He had pneumonia, his lungs were completely filled up and from there he just went downhill. 627 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:37,440 End quote. 628 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,040 Dean was initially treated at St. Joseph's Hospital in Wichita, but as he got worse he 629 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,680 was sent to an integrist hospital in Oklahoma City. 630 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,480 It was a stunning turn of events for Dean and his family. 631 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,520 Green say he was very healthy. 632 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,760 Green says he was very healthy. 633 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,680 Someone went to the gym, ran nearly every day and was very careful about his diet. 634 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,600 Quote, this was his first time ever in the hospital. 635 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,800 He didn't even have a doctor because he never was sick. 636 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:00,800 End quote she said. 637 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,240 But within days, Dean's kidneys gave out and he was relying on an ECMO life support 638 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:07,760 machine to do the work for his heart and lungs. 639 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,160 The night before Dean died, Green said the medical staff in Oklahoma did a bronchoscopy 640 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,160 on his lungs. 641 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,880 Quote, the doctor said he'd never seen anything like this before in his life. 642 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,080 His lungs were totally gummed up and like a mesh over them. 643 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,080 End quote. 644 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,640 Green says that she asked for an autoxy to determine exactly what killed her son. 645 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,080 Results likely take months, she said. 646 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,200 Quote, we're not sure what he died of. 647 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,480 We know that he had a bunch of viruses, but we don't know if somebody did something to 648 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,360 him or did he just get really sick. 649 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,360 End quote she said. 650 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,600 Dean followed his father and grandfather into the commercial aviation industry holding 651 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,680 a series of jobs in the same factory in Wichita where they had both worked before. 652 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,240 During two interviews in January, Dean said that spirit pressured employees not to report 653 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,440 defects in order to get planes out the factory faster. 654 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,520 Quote, no, I'm not saying they don't want you to go out there and inspect a job. 655 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,520 You know they do. 656 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:02,160 Dean told NPR, but if you make too much trouble, you will get the Josh treatment. 657 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,200 You will get what happened to me. 658 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,160 End quote, Dean told NPR. 659 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,520 Dean was fired in April of last year in retaliation. 660 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,880 He said for flagging improperly drilled holes in fuselages. 661 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,440 Quote, I think they were sending out a message to anybody else. 662 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,480 If you are too loud, we will silence you. 663 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,600 End quote, Dean said. 664 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,920 Dean described what he saw while working for spirit in a death position for a lawsuit 665 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,680 filed by the company's shareholders who accused the company of misleading investors by attempting 666 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:32,360 to conceal excessive numbers of defects at the Kansas factory, he was not a plaintiff in the case. 667 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,120 In the shareholder lawsuit, Dean said he flagged a significant defect, 668 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,880 mistrilled holes in the aft pressure bulkhead of 737 Max fuselages. Months before he was fired, 669 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,640 his deposition lays out a series of pivotal dates. October 2022, in his auditor role, 670 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:53,080 Dean realizes Spirit workers mistrilled holes on the 737 Max aft pressure bulkhead representing 671 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,640 potential threat to maintaining cabin pressure during flight. The lawsuit accuses the company of 672 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:03,160 concealing the problem. April 13, 2023, Boeing publicly reveals learning of a separate defect 673 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,840 related to the tail fin fitting on certain 737 Max aircrafts. Spirit then confirms that defect. 674 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:15,240 April 26, 2023, Spirit fires Dean, saying he failed to flag the tail issue. In his testimony, 675 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:19,560 Dean said he told the company officials that he might have missed the tail fin defect because he 676 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,000 had just discovered the problem with bulkheads and he insisted he was focused on that. August 23, 677 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:31,720 2023, yes, I couldn't focus on that other defect because you had this other defect that I was really 678 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:38,200 focused on. August 23, 2023, Boeing announces it had found fastener holes in the aft pressure bulkhead 679 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,560 on certain 737 Max airplanes that don't match its specifications, resulting in snowmen due to the 680 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,600 multiple holes elongated shape. It's the problem Dean flagged 10 months earlier on the same day. 681 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,840 Spirit releases a statement acknowledging the issue. The shareholder lawsuit accuses Spirit 682 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,960 of concealing the bulkhead defect quote not only from investors but also apparently from Boeing 683 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,280 end quote. The spirit spokesman says the company strongly disagrees with the lawsuit's allegations 684 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,000 is fighting the pace in court. Boeing is currently in talks to acquire Spirit at the plane makers 685 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:12,680 leader concede that they may have outsourced too many parts for the manufacturing chain quote did 686 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:18,600 it go too far yeah probably did. Now it's here and now and now I've got to deal with it end quote 687 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,200 Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun said in an interview with CNBC earlier this year. Boeing agreed last month to 688 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,720 advance 425 million to Spirit as it works to improve its manufacturing quality. In interviews 689 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:34,760 with NPR, Joshua Dean depicted it would be difficult to replace the experience workforce that Spirit 690 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,480 lost during the COVID-19 pandemic quote the mechanics aren't as experienced neither are the 691 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,840 inspectors we've just lost that end quote Dean said but even after going public with his concerns 692 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,800 with spirit quality control Dean said there were reasons for optimism about the future and he said 693 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:55,080 that CEO Patrick Shanahan it took over in late 2023 was a unique opportunity to change Spirit's 694 00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,200 culture for the better quote what you really want is you want someone to be able to play the hero 695 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:06,040 end quote Dean said saying Shanahan was a chance to play the new sheriff in town quote we need to 696 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,480 make sure that there is no retaliation or intimidation this culture of you're too loud you'll be moved 697 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:17,800 or silent that's got to go end quote Dean said end of article that's what we know like that is 698 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,680 super weird is it not like he just comes down with like all these ailments and dies within weeks 699 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,600 I mean it can't be a coincidence something like that can't be a coincidence and be a coincidence 700 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:37,800 but it's really weird and that's not only that two people with the same lawyer just really weird 701 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:43,640 coincidences yeah stay away from that weird what's his name again he's not advertising it I know it 702 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,560 but his clients die his last name's nobles with a K he's not talking about time traveling is he 703 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:57,880 Brian Knowles just so that we all know oh man I'm so sad he's not president we missed a good timeline 704 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,840 we missed a good president what was his name sorry I need to look that up because he's from 705 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:10,040 Washington it's right on the tip of my tongue I know Bozzi Agu Andrew Bozzi Agu thank you that is 706 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:18,280 terrifying all the defects yeah that they're finding but yeah that that has to be one of the 707 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,640 bigger ones right now with the whistleblowers that one's still going on and well the open AI one is 708 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,480 just in its infancy so that one could be huge like that whole thing if they can't use copyrighted 709 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:36,840 information to train AI they can't make AI yeah the implications of that are pretty huge as well 710 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,200 didn't even think about that one AI would be recent and I do have some updates on them too but 711 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:47,720 those will come out leaked through the fringy minis when I'm not feeling sad okay which is never so 712 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:54,840 so but yeah Chelsea those are my whistleblowers that's it it actually weirdly started out as an 713 00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,440 assassination episode but ended up here I don't know how well sorry I do know how and it has to 714 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,960 do with Luigi Mangione being found who's Luigi again it's the guy who shot the United Healthcare 715 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:12,520 CEO allegedly right okay because I started the episode with the intentions of covering unanswered 716 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,360 assassinations in corporate work but that one was answered and it kind of killed a lot of that 717 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,880 episode that makes me not want a whistleblow because I don't want to be assassinated I'm 718 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:27,160 still confused about the one in the trek though nobody saw anything I know it is weird that you 719 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,360 would pick that time but also depositions can be very emotional like they're asking you very hard 720 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:38,200 questions and you have to answer them I'm leaning more that way I think I don't know I also don't 721 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,960 feel like it's a coincidence so but in invent they are all weird and that's what we're here for is the 722 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:50,680 weird and and trans praise me to trans ma I have been Taylor here with Chelsea we are journey to the 723 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:56,600 fringe thank you all for listening we'll see you next week hi thank you for listening to journey 724 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:03,480 to the fringe if you have liked what you have listened to please like share subscribe or follow 725 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:09,480 depending on what venue you are listening to us through also please if possible leave a five star 726 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,080 review as that really helps us in the algorithms should you wish to interact with us please check 727 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:21,080 us out on your social media of choice I bet you we are there and if you really want to communicate 728 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:26,120 with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible either way 729 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:40,360 please send us an email at journey to the fringe at gmail.com for now I'll see you in the next episode