1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,720 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,000 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where it really hasn't been 48 hours since 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,840 we last talked to you guys, at least in our time, so we got no money to report back for 4 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:24,840 Chelsea anything. 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,840 Fun. 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:26,840 No. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:27,840 It's important. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:34,080 We are your podcast hosts of the same financial status as before Taylor and Chelsea. 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,880 Here today, I'm not actually sure this, I have no idea what you're doing, Chelsea. 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,480 All I know is you sent me a top. 11 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:43,800 What I asked you if you had an episode ready. 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:49,680 From the position that I sit with no money that nobody sent me and from. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:50,680 Wait, Chelsea. 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:51,680 Yeah. 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,800 I just want to see, are you saying they're not deserving of an episode? 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Yeah, that's voted guys. 17 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:03,720 If you're listening to Journey to the Fringe. 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,600 We're back. 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,200 We are hoping that you will send us money, so we'll just continue doing this. 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,080 I am so sick of keel and the mothman prophecies right now. 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,840 I was going to do something related and I thought it was like that. 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Maybe in another time. 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,280 I decided to do a cryptid that I've been meaning to do. 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,640 Well, I don't know if he's a cryptid. 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:36,200 I guess we'll discuss that at the end, but I'm doing a thing that has been on my mind 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,440 for a while. 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,480 So buckle your seatbelts. 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,960 It's the story of Sam the Sundown clown. 29 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:46,480 Have you heard of this guy before? 30 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,960 I feel like it came up in an episode recently, but I can't say I know anything about him. 31 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,960 Maybe that's why I was thinking about him. 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,720 Anyhow, Sam the Sundown clown. 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,000 Damn, that is hard to say. 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:06,080 The Sundown clown was a strange being encountered by two young children while vacationing at 35 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:12,080 Lake Common, Sundown, Isle of Wight in the UK in May of 1973. 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,800 Oh, you've been saying Sundown? 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Yeah. 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,800 Because I've been hearing Sundown. 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:24,480 Sundown is like people with dementia as the sun goes down, they lose mental capacity. 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,400 This really changes what I think of this clown now. 41 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Now was I saying? 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,400 No, I'm pretty sure I was saying Sundown. 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,360 I think you were saying Sam's down. 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,440 I was just misinterpreting it, assuming that you were saying it wrong. 45 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,760 Okay, hold on though. 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,880 Because my document is labeled Sundown clown. 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,000 Now I don't know. 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,160 Was I saying the wrong anyhow? 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:45,560 It's the Sandown clown. 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,080 I caught it pretty early on in the episode this time. 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,640 So hopefully I continue on with saying that. 52 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:59,320 Just to set the scene, these kids have this encounter in Sandown in the UK when they're 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:05,000 on vacation and it's like a little seaside town in the southern end of the Isle of Wight. 54 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,440 The town has a rich history stretching back to the Roman period when the area was used 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:17,000 primarily for salt production and up until the 19th century, Sandown was exclusively used 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,680 as a military site since the beaches offered easy access to invading French troops. 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,800 Lots of history with the arrival of the train in the 1800s. 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,440 Sandown grew into the beach resort town that it would become known as in the 20th and 21st 59 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:37,400 centuries and today, Sandown is a traditional British seaside town featuring a long stretch 60 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,400 of sandy beach, a high street filled with restaurants and shops, various attractions 61 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:48,400 including a wildlife sanctuary and a dinosaur museum, lots of dinosaur bones there, and 62 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,960 a quintessential Victorian pier with large arcade and beautiful views of the cliffs and 63 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:54,960 sea. 64 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:01,280 Sandown apparently has its fair share of paranormal happenings as well, such as UFO sightings 65 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,040 and poltergeist activity. 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:08,120 I literally talk about none of that so I'm just going to take their word for it. 67 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:16,000 So the entity itself that the kids encountered was a shy but friendly being and spoke kindly 68 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,880 to the children for almost half an hour before they returned to their parents. 69 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,680 It seemingly vanished after the encounter and has never been seen again. 70 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:27,680 That's it. 71 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,680 That's the only encounter with this being ever recorded anywhere. 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Is there a chance there was just a clown working the street? 73 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,280 Tell me if that's what you think it is after we talk about the encounter. 74 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:39,280 Okay. 75 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,240 I mean, I guess there's always a chance of that, I guess. 76 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,920 Like a hobo clown? 77 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,240 You know the kind I'm talking about. 78 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,400 Yeah, I guess it's not New Jersey. 79 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,960 Like that's, I would picture that in Jersey Shore, not fancy England. 80 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:52,960 True. 81 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,160 Yeah, England is so fancy. 82 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,640 British Andy Lizard. 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:03,760 Is anybody seeing Sam the Sand Down Clown and British Andy in the same room? 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:04,760 Oh no. 85 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Never. 86 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,680 It's never come up. 87 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,920 Before getting into the actual encounter of Sam the Sand Down Clown, I want to first 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:17,840 introduce the primary source of the event, which is the British UFO Research Association 89 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:20,920 or Bufora, which is a very catchy name. 90 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,560 That's a beautiful acronym. 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,560 And now Bufora. 92 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:25,560 Bufora. 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Bufora. 94 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,800 It's a brand makeup at that kind of acronym. 95 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:29,800 You could. 96 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,520 A brand makeup, but makeup nonetheless. 97 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,640 Yeah, totally off brand. 98 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:41,000 Bufora was founded in 1964 to investigate UFO reports around the British Isles. 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:46,760 According to their website, Bufora is a quote, non-cultist and scientifically evaluative 100 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:47,760 organization. 101 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:48,760 End quote. 102 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,760 I love how it's non-cultist. 103 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:51,760 Yeah, it's not a cult. 104 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,760 That's how you know it's not a cult. 105 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,760 They don't see way too fast. 106 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,840 We forgot to put that in our native. 107 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:07,000 Until 2005, they published a Bufora journal where the story of Sam the Sundown Clown appeared 108 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,360 in the January, February 1978 issue. 109 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:17,760 Cover the issue features of drawing of Sam, who appears as a tall robot like humanoid 110 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,440 speaking into a microphone hooked up to an audio device. 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,840 Then underneath dramatically asked quote, go store spaceman. 112 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:27,840 It's all in caps. 113 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,520 So I had to say it really loud. 114 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:30,520 End quote. 115 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,440 This is the sole location of the report of SSC. 116 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:41,920 I'm going to read to you the encounter right from Bufora because it was never a Bufora 117 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,080 publication because it's never reported anywhere else. 118 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:54,400 The encounter which starts with the father of one of the children's dad is Mr. Y. 119 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,400 So this is where the report start and I'm going to read it right now. 120 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,680 Let me just go to the top because I'm not prepared for this. 121 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:11,480 Okay, so report extra go store spaceman 73. 122 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:17,360 I'm indebted to Leonard Kramp for advising Mr. Y to write to me concerning his own and 123 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:23,400 his daughter's experiences and to Mr. Y himself for providing me with a very complete dossier 124 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,560 of events. 125 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,080 Of necessity these have had to be encapsulated. 126 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,840 Nevertheless, they make interesting reading. 127 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,680 Mr. Y has requested a nominity because of his daughter's involvement. 128 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:36,680 Ed. 129 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,680 So here's where it starts. 130 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,400 Tuesday, 20th of October 1970. 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:49,320 Around 7pm Mr. Y was driving from Shanklin to Ride by a Seaview to see a friend. 132 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,840 Passing through the village of Bradding, he turned right to St. Helens and then became 133 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:59,680 aware of a large multi-lit aircraft to his right about half way between the road and 134 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:00,680 Bembridge. 135 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,840 Bembridge Downs. 136 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,640 It looked enormous as it flew low over swampy terrain. 137 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,440 He stopped the car and watched. 138 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:13,160 The object hovered apparently aimlessly over the swampy margins of the river Yarr. 139 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,840 A wide ring of seven or more lights could be seen, each of them a large and clearly 140 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,240 defined sphere, like a bright red cherry. 141 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,680 An interspersed with a turquoise and white light, no sound could be heard. 142 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Our witness drove on and the object flew parallel. 143 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:36,640 Once outside St. Helens, it cut across about 300 yards behind him and dropped slowly, meandering 144 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:42,400 above distant hedges, now appearing smaller with the number of red lights reduced to four, 145 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,520 which seemed to rotate slowly. 146 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Mr. Y again stopped at this time and used his torch to signal for some 10 minutes, during 147 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,400 which time the object weaved backwards and forwards without settling. 148 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,800 He then continued on to his appointment. 149 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,800 When he reached his destination, the red lights were still there and he left his own rear 150 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,680 lights on to face the object. 151 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:09,760 Coming out of the house, his friend could see the thing also playing hide and seek between 152 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,080 the treetops. 153 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:17,200 As he continued on to ride, the lights were lost to view and our witness saw them no more. 154 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:23,520 On several subsequent occasions, he noticed signal, balls of red light in the sky, which 155 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:29,200 would hang stationary or follow him along as though checking his movements, but on the 156 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,960 first of March 1972, a considerably more frightening incident occurred. 157 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,680 Again, this is the father of the two kids who have the experience with Sam. 158 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:47,240 It was between 9pm and 10pm and Mr. Y was perched on the cliffside at Compton Bay, having 159 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:53,640 been driven there by an unexpected tidal surge seemingly caused in part at least by some 160 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,000 form of droning underwater craft. 161 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,680 From his vantage point, he observed two points of light, yellow and pure and up at me like 162 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:05,560 the eyes of some horrible sea monster. 163 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:10,560 He guessed the eyes were not much more than 40 feet away and were just below the surface 164 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,720 of the sea, like a sort of periscope. 165 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:20,160 It disappeared and as the tide gradually subsided, Mr. Y was able to get back to his car and 166 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,320 drive home. 167 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:27,000 At no time did he tell his young daughter of anything he had experienced, but at the 168 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:34,640 beginning of May 1973, when she was 7 years old, she claimed to have had a very weird 169 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,800 encounter indeed. 170 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,360 And this part is titled Sand Down Spaceman or Golf Link's Ghost. 171 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Faye, or so we shall call her, was near Lake Common Sand Down on a Tuesday afternoon about 172 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:55,200 4 o'clock with a boy about her own age when they both heard a weird wailing noise not unlike 173 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,040 an ambulance siren. 174 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,800 They followed it across the golf links and threw a hedge leading to the swampy meadow 175 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,000 adjacent to a little used sand down airport the noise ceased. 176 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,760 As they were crossing a wooden foot bridge over a narrow brook, a blue-gloved hand appeared 177 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,360 from under the bridge and a strange figure emerged. 178 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,760 The figure fumbled with a book, dropped it in the water, then splashed about to retrieve 179 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,760 it. 180 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:28,600 They then watched the figure enter a metallic hut, similar to those used on building sites 181 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,040 except that it had no windows. 182 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,960 It moved along with a strange hopping motion with knees raised high. 183 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,760 The children wandered off and were over 50 yards away when the figure, Brackets, which 184 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:48,120 from now on will be referred to as He, I love that they clarify this in here, and Bracket. 185 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,880 They don't say why they come to that conclusion though. 186 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:58,440 He reappeared carrying a black-knobbed microphone with a white flex attached. 187 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:04,760 The wailing noise immediately returned, this time being so loud that the boy was scared 188 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,840 and began to run away. 189 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:13,680 Noise ceased and he spoke into the microphone and although so far off, the children could 190 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:17,600 hear his voice as clearly as though they were right near them. 191 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:24,200 Hello, are you still there? he asked, and in response to what sounded a friendly tone, 192 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,720 they ventured close enough to speak to the oddly attired person. 193 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:34,600 He was nearly seven feet tall and had no neck, for his head appeared to be wedged straight 194 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,440 onto his shoulders. 195 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:43,720 He wore a yellow pointed hat, which interlocked with the red collar of a green tunic. 196 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:50,320 And black-knob was affixed to the top of his hat and wooden antennae were attached on either 197 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:51,320 side. 198 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:58,400 The face had triangular markings for eyes, a brown square of a nose, and motionless yellow 199 00:12:58,400 --> 00:12:59,400 lips. 200 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:05,040 Other round markings were on his white paper cheeks and a fringe of red hair fell onto 201 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,840 his forehead. 202 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:12,840 Wooden slats protruded from his sleeves and from below his white trousers, his first 203 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,320 communication was in writing. 204 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,720 Hello, he wrote in a notebook in a large hand. 205 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Hello, I am all colors, Sam. 206 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:29,640 The boy was hesitant, but Frey read each word as it was pointed to. 207 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:35,520 This was necessary as the words were not laid out in conventional sequence. 208 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,680 Children ventured closer and discovered that the creature could talk without the aid of 209 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:45,920 a microphone, so his lips did not move and speech was unclear, rather like that of a 210 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,920 person who does not open his mouth properly. 211 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,640 He asked the children about themselves, so they ventured to ask questions too. 212 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:59,600 He asked about his clothes, which were all ripped, and he told them he only had one set 213 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,760 so he could only wear those. 214 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,880 Because of his strange white features, they asked if he was really a man. 215 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,320 The answer was a chuckled, no. 216 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,560 I don't know how you'd chuckle that. 217 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,320 They also asked if he was a ghost. 218 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:21,880 A vague reply was, well, not really, but I am in an odd sort of way. 219 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:22,880 What are you then? 220 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:28,880 He continued, but only obtained the answer you know, with no further explanation. 221 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,440 Oh man, this guy's grace. 222 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,720 He also said- Stephen Greer needs to interview him. 223 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:36,880 Oh yeah. 224 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,160 He also said he had no name. 225 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,040 There are others like himself though, and he drew a rough sketch of one of them. 226 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,480 He also confided that he was frightened of people and scared they may hurt him. 227 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Apparently, if attacked, he would not fight back. 228 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,080 They didn't test it? 229 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,560 No, I mean their kids. 230 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,120 At his invitation, the children crawled through a flap into his hut. 231 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,000 These freaking kids, I mean, they shouldn't do that. 232 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,040 It was the 70s though. 233 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,400 They didn't have the stranger danger we were taught. 234 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,880 Oh my god. 235 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,360 So into his hut, which contained two levels. 236 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:21,360 The lower had plenty of headroom and was wall-papered in blue-green and covered with a pattern of 237 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:22,720 dials. 238 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,760 It also had an electric heater and simple wooden furniture. 239 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,320 The upper level was less spacious and the floor was metallic. 240 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,960 He told the children that he fed upon berries, which he collected in the late afternoon. 241 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,480 He didn't say where, but did indicate that he had a camp on the mainland he could go 242 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,480 to. 243 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,040 He also said that the water from the river could be drunk once he had cleaned it. 244 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,720 Once inside the hut, he removed his hat to reveal round, white ears, and sparse brown 245 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:53,720 hair. 246 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,640 Before eating a berry, he performed an odd conjuring trick. 247 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:03,680 He placed the berry in his ear, thrust his head forward, and caused the berry to disappear 248 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,480 and reappear at one of his odd eyes. 249 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,960 Repeating the process, the berry traveled to his mouth. 250 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:16,360 In brackets, a possible explanation could be that he was wearing some kind of protective 251 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:22,280 mask and analyzing the berry to check it wasn't poisonous in brackets. 252 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,760 Could he not have just been doing a magic trick though? 253 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,160 Yeah, he could have. 254 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,960 That was what I was thinking, like a sleight of hand something. 255 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,760 Yeah, especially if they're seven years old. 256 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,480 If you know a magic trick, you're probably going to show it to them. 257 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,280 Yeah, I mean, and they're going to know no better. 258 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,560 I like that they jump to a wild one though that is wearing a mask and checking if it's 259 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:42,560 poisonous. 260 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,080 I mean sleight of hand. 261 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,360 He's been eating them for days and he's checking if it's poisonous. 262 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:55,480 I mean, this is kids, so I mean, it might not have even been a good sleight of hand 263 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,760 and they would have probably said, this is like it came out his mouth he put it in his 264 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,520 ear. 265 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:09,200 The children talked to the strange being for half an hour or more than after saying goodbye, 266 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,520 they rushed across the golf links to tell the first man they met that they'd seen a 267 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,320 ghost and merely laughed. 268 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,160 The children were convinced of their experience and that the being was either a ghost or someone 269 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,160 dressed up. 270 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,640 They told your father. 271 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,040 He dressed up. 272 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,480 He definitely or maybe didn't dressed up because his clothes were all ripped. 273 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,480 Yeah. 274 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,600 He put on his clothes. 275 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:40,640 They told her father for experience some three weeks later, Jesus, on the 2nd of June 1973. 276 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,360 At first, he found the story quite unbelievable, but was amazed at the detailed account and 277 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:49,160 faced certainty as to its truth. 278 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,960 She was quite upset when he suggested she'd made it up or invented it. 279 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:59,000 Mr. Y saw the boy, but found him not easy to communicate with, though he did get a statement 280 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,920 from him verifying that he'd seen it too. 281 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:07,880 Apart from make believe, other possibilities considered include a shared hallucination 282 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,720 and a deliberate hoax by someone. 283 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,840 There was such an extraordinary amount of detail, however, which included the further 284 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,080 point that the creature clearly only had three fingers on each blue-gloved hand and three 285 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,720 toes on his bare white feet making a deliberate hoax somewhat difficult and indeed why go 286 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:27,920 to all that trouble. 287 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,040 Why does that detail appear there in this article? 288 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,960 What an odd place for it to be. 289 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Mr. Y tells me that although bizarre, certain elements of the story rang true to him and 290 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:47,640 he also took account of the possibility of some connection with his own previous experiences. 291 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,940 Summing up, he says, quote, I get the impression that Faye was somehow taking into a bubble 292 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:57,880 of alien reality created by this strange personage. 293 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,480 He told them he had just made the hut. 294 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:07,480 Also Faye told me that while they were talking to this ghost, two workmen nearby were repairing 295 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,480 a post. 296 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,000 They paid no attention to the weird charade as though they could not see it, end quote. 297 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,560 Or they're used to the guy. 298 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,560 Oh, that's just Sam. 299 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,120 He got three fingers, three toes. 300 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,120 He's got that one magic trick. 301 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:29,120 We keep giving him poisoned berries, which is why it's so bloated. 302 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:35,160 Yeah, and he's high as fuck that's why he's using a microphone. 303 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,240 We gave him the microphone too. 304 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:45,240 Well ghost, basement, imagination, hoax, or hallucination? 305 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,240 Take your pick. 306 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,320 Does the childs make believe? 307 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:54,240 Perhaps there are a number of unusual elements of the story and it is very detailed. 308 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,200 Remember too that quite a percentage of reports of sightings come from children. 309 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,600 Brackets, the Welsh flap is a case in point. 310 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:09,320 In particular, the box dropping incident and the humanoid report from Broad Haven School, 311 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,800 C volume six, number one. 312 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,240 What the fuck is the box dropping incident? 313 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,880 Yeah, I think Chelsea, we just got a ton of things for our research document. 314 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:18,880 One last point. 315 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:25,160 Mr. Y visited the spot but could find no metal hut anywhere in sight, nor any indication 316 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,160 of one. 317 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:31,120 Not really surprising, no matter in what light one views the children's story for. 318 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:37,680 To make a comparison, how often are traces found in reported UFO landings? 319 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,880 The case rests. 320 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,840 I mean, it's, I don't think it's that surprising that the construction huts had been moved 321 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,080 after he lured two children into it for half an hour and people saw it. 322 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,480 We didn't see it, apparently. 323 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:56,680 No, the two construction huts were to have seen it. 324 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,320 So that's the sighting. 325 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,080 What do you think of it? 326 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:07,200 In my mind, this is really just kids meeting a homeless person for the first time and kind 327 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,920 of embellishing, not embellishing, but like seeing something that wasn't quite there with 328 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,960 the experience because that matches up a lot with just how I feel a kid would interact 329 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,960 with an outsider. 330 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,960 Yeah, that's true. 331 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:21,960 Yeah. 332 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:28,920 I mean, there are other explanations, even like it happening, not just like a ghost or 333 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,480 you know, it's just a child's interpretation. 334 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:39,320 I mean, the thing that's creepy about it is the physical appearance with the clown, like 335 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,760 the red hair and like the triangle eyes and stuff and the mouth not moving. 336 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,880 Yeah, which I mean, also, they did say that it sounded like his mouth wasn't opening when 337 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:51,880 he was talking. 338 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,240 There's a chance this guy had a stroke and only a part of his mouth opened. 339 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,440 That's true. 340 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,920 Some people do talk like that with very little mouth movement. 341 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,280 You know, the people I'm talking about. 342 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:10,320 And my other thought while I was reading it was how much of this with the dad's background 343 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,600 in his sightings when they kind of said that they thought it was a ghost, how much was he 344 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,880 kind of feeding the paranormal details into it? 345 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,280 Not only that, the fact that like at home, there may be kind of a culture of talking 346 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,960 about these things. 347 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,920 So seeing something outside of what you're normally expecting. 348 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,320 Yeah, you get that feeling of this is what's happening. 349 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,800 So you add these details. 350 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:41,280 Yeah, I mean, there are details that are in that article that I wouldn't expect a child 351 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,160 to come up with. 352 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,120 And they do even speculate in there with the mask and the poison berry that they are putting 353 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:52,640 it through a mask, which is just a wild thing to jump to, I think. 354 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,640 Yeah. 355 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,120 So there is a little bit in the article and some of the stuff I think a kid wouldn't come 356 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:58,120 up with. 357 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,680 And he certainly probably said, oh, like, did he do this? 358 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,640 I can't think of a specific example because that's how I work. 359 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,480 But yeah, creepy the way that it's presented. 360 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,480 And then the last. 361 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,480 Yeah. 362 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,280 I mean, if everything is just taken as true, yeah, it is a truly bizarre story. 363 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,080 And either way, it is a bizarre story, particularly the fact that their stories do match up in 364 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,840 particular points, like the fact that they both say there's three digits on all extremities. 365 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,840 Yeah. 366 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,840 And what do you think? 367 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,720 Like, it was three weeks later that she brought it up. 368 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:33,720 Yeah. 369 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,840 And how do you think they came to the conclusion that he had three fingers and three toes? 370 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,800 Do you think that's a detail that the children noticed? 371 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,680 I think so. 372 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,320 Although it could have come up in questioning them both together, I don't know for sure. 373 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,400 That is part of the problem of it being three weeks later and then that it not coming out 374 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,080 with actual investigation, but a dad forcing a kid to give us a statement. 375 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:02,880 I don't even know that as an adult, if I was just having a regular interaction with something, 376 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,920 I probably just think that everything's normal if I come across a clown in the woods. 377 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,880 I don't know that I'm going to pay attention to the fingers. 378 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:11,880 Yeah, fair enough. 379 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,280 Like it might pull over my head. 380 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,760 I mean, it was a 30 minute encounter. 381 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,000 It is a 30 minute encounter. 382 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,400 And if somebody has never met somebody who's missing digits or you're just used to normals, 383 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,600 like if one kid pointed it out, that would be something that they would remember. 384 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:25,600 That's true. 385 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,760 But it doesn't sound like they pointed it out to maybe they did because it doesn't say 386 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,320 everything that they asked them. 387 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Maybe they're like, I see you only have three fingers and three toes. 388 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,680 Yeah, well, yeah, the entire story does not take up 30 minutes of conversation. 389 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,040 So maybe they bring it up. 390 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,200 I just see I'm the same person. 391 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,360 You know, they were sitting around at the table and the dad asked like repeatedly, how 392 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,440 was your day over the course of three weeks? 393 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,240 And she just said, good. 394 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,640 Like, do you do anything now? 395 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,640 No. 396 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,440 And then just like out of nowhere one day, she just kind of brings it up. 397 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:00,440 Yeah. 398 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,560 Remember when we were in Sandown, we saw a clown in the bush and we went into his house. 399 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,560 For 30 minutes. 400 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,960 He ate those berries, only had three fingers. 401 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,600 Put the berries in his ear, came out his mouth. 402 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,600 Do you remember? 403 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:15,600 That was fun. 404 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,480 Oh yeah, I could would bring it up that would be too. 405 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,560 And it was like when they were late for something too. 406 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,240 So they're really rushing. 407 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,520 Oh, that's how kids always bring things up. 408 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:31,200 So no spacecraft or even terrestrial vehicle was observed at the time of the incident. 409 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,120 And only the children saw and spoke to the being. 410 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:39,280 It's shack had vanished before for the research could be carried out and workmen near the site 411 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,280 reported nothing out of the ordinary, which Taylor brought up a good point. 412 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,200 That just means that he wasn't potentially out of the ordinary. 413 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,360 And that's him is always there. 414 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:55,200 The children were insistent that this encounter really happened for the remainder of their 415 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,200 life. 416 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,400 Their parents initially disbelieve them. 417 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:04,240 But when they continue to talk about the encounter in vivid detail before it was contacted by 418 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,440 the parents and all details logged in the archives. 419 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,040 So that's the end of that. 420 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,400 I think we just had a pretty lengthy discussion about possible explanations. 421 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,360 I feel like our explanations make sense. 422 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,040 But let's talk about some more. 423 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,040 There are several explanations as to what the being could have been. 424 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,920 Theories include a human wearing a costume, a fairy, a ghost or other type of paranormal 425 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:39,120 or supernatural creature, a robot, an extraterrestrial possibly wearing a costume, a shared hallucination 426 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,400 or a folly adieu. 427 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,680 I'm just going to scratch that one out. 428 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,240 I don't think it was a shared hallucination unless they were also eating the poison berries. 429 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,640 The creature could have also been made up by the kids who saw it. 430 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:58,880 I think that one's probably unlikely because the people who were working close by did remember 431 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,560 the kids walking past them. 432 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:09,400 As far as Sam being an alien, Sam's story with the hut could have potentially been a 433 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,680 UFO. 434 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:17,080 And it also seems to be what Mr. Y is implying by tying Faye's interaction with Sam to 435 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,120 his own UFO sighting. 436 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:25,040 I agree with that one because he clearly, that's why he tells the story. 437 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:31,000 And then, you know, I think he probably jumps to conclusions and leads it a little bit there 438 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,200 was my thought. 439 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:39,240 Yeah, well, he's not an investigator, so I don't blame him for asking leading questions. 440 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,520 Unlike people that we've looked at in the past who definitely do that. 441 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,280 Who should be, you know, not asking leading questions. 442 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,720 Sam as a ghost, Faye and Harry were convinced Sam was some sort of wandering specter. 443 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,600 When the children asked Sam if he was a ghost, Sam seems to consider the possibility with 444 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,080 his cryptic response. 445 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,240 Well, not really, but I am in an odd sort of way. 446 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,240 Maybe. 447 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,400 If we not just interpret that as him saying like he didn't feel like he was human because 448 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,520 he's a homeless person who people look down on. 449 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,400 He's not quite saying this could also be somebody with a mental illness. 450 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,400 Yeah. 451 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,400 He's had a stroke that isn't seeing reality properly. 452 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,200 I mean, why they're dressed up as a clown. 453 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,760 Maybe it was the Joker. 454 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,760 I don't know. 455 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,560 I'm just having some word vomit at the moment as to what it could be. 456 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,360 But I really don't think it's a ghost. 457 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:38,560 It would just it would just make it more confusing if he was a ghost. 458 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,440 Why would he be a ghost? 459 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,560 Why would he say he wasn't a ghost? 460 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:45,560 Why would he be a ghost? 461 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,560 I don't know. 462 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,920 Sam is a human not to make the story dark, but Sam's interest in the children and inviting 463 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,080 them into his weird swampy shack certainly sounds like a kidnapping attempt. 464 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,440 I don't know about that because he let him go. 465 00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,440 Yeah. 466 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Well, maybe the family he knew the family didn't have any money at a certain point. 467 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,200 Maybe. 468 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,720 The fact that the children didn't mention being held captive or feeling threatened makes 469 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,320 me think this wasn't necessarily an encounter with malicious intent. 470 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,240 If Sam was a human, his strange appearance and mannerisms could very well have been linked 471 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:23,760 to drug or alcohol abuse, mental health, poison berries or similar reasons. 472 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,680 Children are likely to conjure up bizarre descriptions of people that appear odd to them. 473 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,440 Yeah, that that one I think is yeah. 474 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,920 Sam is a shared hallucination. 475 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,640 I'm not even reading this one because that's not what it is. 476 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,840 Sam is a prank. 477 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,720 Children get bored when children get bored. 478 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,080 They make up stories to entertain themselves. 479 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,600 Children have such a vivid and wonderful imagination. 480 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,840 So this could have been a childish prank that Faze father took seriously because of his 481 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,680 prior experience. 482 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,600 Sam the underappreciated cryptid. 483 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,400 So this is the end of the episode. 484 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,840 We've given our opinions throughout. 485 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,680 Do you have anything else left to question? 486 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,440 After them, we do need to invest in mental health facilities and treatments. 487 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,840 I feel like this might be a good story that gives an example of why. 488 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:17,240 Yeah, I mean, this was the 70s, so I'm sure it's come a hell of a far ways since then. 489 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,840 It's actually a little better back then just because we had sanitariums at the time. 490 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,160 Yeah, it's definitely something we still need to invest in. 491 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,240 Population goes up. 492 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,240 We need to expand. 493 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,080 I only say that because I was just talking about it. 494 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,760 Yeah, but yeah, I'm keeping up with the population and the housing being built. 495 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,760 But I digress. 496 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,680 Yeah, and with that, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. 497 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,040 We are Journey to the Fringe. 498 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,040 Thank you all for listening. 499 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,480 We'll see you next week. 500 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,800 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 501 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:57,920 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or 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