From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where we put the fringe in fringe.
I didn't have anything today, I thought that was good enough.
We are here, host, who I swear we haven't written off the whole episode, the rest of
the episode is good.
I just didn't have time for the opener, guys.
We are your pop-chess host, Taylor and Chelsea.
Here today, we're talking about whether or not there's DNA of Bigfoot out there.
Nice, there is.
And specifically, if we have studied it and written it down in papers.
I bet you we have.
Chelsea, I think you know a bit about the story.
I'm going to dish on this whole thing with all the sass and whatnot that comes with it.
This story turned out a lot more interesting than I thought it was going to be, because
when I first did it, I couldn't find anything, including the paper that's supposed to be
on this subject.
I've got a lot to go over.
It's going to take a while, so let's just get right down to the start.
Now, Chelsea, this story is predominantly about one person, Dr. Melba Ketchum.
Have you ever heard of her?
Yes, I have.
And I'm sure you've heard her talk before, too.
We covered this briefly in David Polatis.
Yes, and he's going to come up at some point in this episode.
Thank God.
I was really feeling like we were missing him in this episode.
That's all I've heard her from, to be honest.
You're going to know her for a few things after this.
Okay, turning to the French for what?
So you all know she is not only the most famous relative of Ash Ketchum.
She is also a vet.
You know what?
Let's just go over the coast to coast AM biography.
Those of you who grew up in the 90s or later probably got that Pokemon joke.
The rest of you, I do apologize for that.
Is Ash still existing Pokemon?
I think he does.
He might have just retired, but he went a long time.
Now, here's Dr. Melba Ketchum's coast to coast by geography, as we always start these
episodes.
She grew up in Texas City, Texas, and attended Texas AMM University, where she received her
doctorate in veterinary medicine after five years at the university.
She had a mixed veterinary practice until she founded DNA diagnostics.
And Dr. Ketchum is the president and founder of DNA Diagnostics, Inc., doing business as
Shelterwood Laboratories.
Established in 1985, DNA Diagnostics has become a leader in all types of DNA testing, including
human and animal forensics, human and animal paternity and parentage testing, disease diagnostics,
trait tests, animal and human identity testing, species identification, and sex determination.
Most common species of animal are tested at DNA diagnostics.
Ketchum initially says that she never believed in Bigfoot, and it's due to a friend's chilling
encounter with the creature in 1995 that was relayed to her that really made her a believer
and brought her into this world.
She was approached to get involved in the testing of collection samples from Bigfoot
sightings, and that's how she got brought onto the scene.
She got approached in, I believe it was 2008, and I can actually write that down, but it
was some years before this all actually happened.
And in November of 2013, after studying this stuff that they were given for five years,
finally got to a point of publishing a scientific paper in a scientific journal.
This was released in November of 2013.
The research appears in the DeNovo Journal of Science, which seemed to confirm Ketchum's
research about the reality of Bigfoot, and damn it, I forgot to include my joke about
her having to catch them all, which is what brought her into the study of this.
It can go here.
That's fine, you guys will get the joke.
From that time when this article came out, I found a live science article on it.
It can tell us what's in it.
The testing confirms the legendary Bigfoot is a human relative that arose some 15,000
years ago, at least according to a press release issued by a company called DNA Diagnostics,
detailing supposed work by a Texas veterinarian.
The release and alleged study by Melba Ketchum also suggests such cryptids had sex with modern
human females that resulted in hairy, hominin hybrids, but the scientific community is dubious
about her claims.
Quote, a team of scientists can verify that their five-year-long DNA study currently
under peer review confirms the existence of a novel hominin hybrid species commonly called
Bigfoot or Sasquatch living in North America.
The researchers' extensive DNA sequencing suggests that the legendary Sasquatch is a
human relative that arose approximately 15,000 years ago.
For her study, Ketchum obtained three, quote, whole nuclear genomes from purported Sasquatch
samples.
The genome sequencing shows that Sasquatch MT DNA is identical to modern Homo sapiens,
MT DNA's mitochondrial DNA.
What Sasquatch Nikolai DNA is a novel unknown hominin related to Homo sapiens and other
primate species, end quote.
Quote, our data indicates that the North American Sasquatch is a hybrid species the
result of males of an unknown hominin species crossing with female Homo sapiens, end quote
the statement reads.
So that's what came from the story.
I should also state that on Ketchum's website at this time, Sasquatch genome project, she
writes quote, has been a long and tedious battle to prove that Sasquatch exists.
Trying to publish that had taken almost two years.
It seems mainstream science just can't seem to tolerate something controversial, especially
from a group of primarily forensic scientists and not quote famous academia and quote, still
inside her quote, aligned with our universities, even though most of our sequencing analysis
was performed at just such facilities, end quote.
That's all I got to read of her scientific paper.
It was published in DeNovo, Chelsea, I want you to go to DeNovo scientific journal, just
type it in.
You find it anything big foot DNA discovered the last.
Oh, no, no, that's not the website.
Novo Sciences dot AI.
Nope.
That's not it.
It doesn't exist anymore.
DeNovo Journal published one journal volume one issue one and it had one scientific paper
in it.
Do you want to guess which one?
The exact one you're talking about.
Yes.
And that's it.
And the website doesn't exist anymore.
Well, of course, why would you have it still running?
If you weren't publishing papers for the life of me, it is referenced in multiple places
on the web.
Can't find the journal entry anywhere because they all say back to the DeNovo website.
So it doesn't exist.
Isn't that convenient?
I mean, it probably does exist somewhere.
It has to because somebody wrote it.
It's not easy to find.
That is for sure.
I spent a long time trying to actually find it because I wanted to read this paper.
Instead, Chelsea, what we have to rely on is reading a critique of Ketchum's process
and paper that was written around the time of its publish by a skeptic.
This is titled The Ketchum Project, What to Believe About Bigfoot DNA Science Article.
It was uploaded by Sharon Hale on February 16, 2015.
Sharon Hale, this is all from, let me just find it really quick.
I'm sure that's what they were going for when they took the website down.
Please read the summary by a skeptic.
Honestly, the best thing you can find, you can find everything about Sharon Hale and
her background on here.
She's written six publications on here and has 19 citations.
It's the best thing we got.
And that's what we're going with from here.
And we're going to learn, Chelsea, all about the Bigfoot paper, proving that Bigfoot exists
through DNA sampling from this perspective.
In 2008, when her lab was picked to analyze the suspected Bigfoot Yeti hair from Bhutan,
collected as part of Josh Gates' adventure show Destination Truth, which airs on the
Discovery Channel in the US, Ketchum appeared twice on the show in 2009 and 2010 as a forensic
analyst.
She then became one of the go-to people for those who had collected DNA samples that they
thought might be from a Bigfoot.
Ketchum was affiliated with various corporations registered in the state of Texas, including
one called Science Alive LLC.
This partnership included Robert Schmalsbach, better known as Java Bob, who was previously
an officer under Tim Biscardi's group searching for Bigfoot, and Richard Stubstead, an engineer
who became interested in Bigfoot DNA and was a funder of Ketchum's work.
According to Stubstead, some sort of dispute occurred in fall of 2010 as lawyers eventually
managed to cut Schmalsbach and Stubstead out of this corporation venture, leaving Ketchum
with the entire control of any media from publicizing Bigfoot DNA findings.
This was not the first or last of legal dealings where Ketchum was involved.
Ketchum had been sued and lost a claim for patent infringement that required her lab
to stop using certain tests.
In addition, the lab itself was not in good standing with the public, having an F rating
by the Better Business Bureau due to complaints for delivering results, a possible problem
with the state of Texas regarding payment to franchise taxes, and some lost client contracts.
Ketchum responded to these issues by admitting she was naive regarding the people involved
in Bigfootery, which is the first time I've ever heard that term.
Some of whom she described as turning out to be unethical.
She did not know of their reputation but wanted them removed from the study to protect its
integrity.
Ketchum had been associated with several other individuals and projects throughout the years
of Bigfoot DNA collection and analyses, including the following, an Olympic project, a group
of researchers studying habitat and attempting to obtain trail cam photos of Bigfoot, Tom
Biscardi of Searching for Bigfoot Inc, involved with the infamous, and we'll cover this at
some point, 2008 Georgia Bigfoot in a Freezer story.
Chelsea, do you remember that?
I do, yep.
Who collected DNA samples for her project, so he's involved getting the DNA samples.
Oh, God, I was hoping he would be.
Wally Hursam, a generous contributor to several Bigfoot research projects, who funded at least
some of Ketchum's work.
Patriot Erickson of Sastwatch the Quest, who stated he has high-quality pictures and videos
of the creature, and David Politis of North American Bigfoot Survey, who is a Ketchum
supporter.
Politis, an ex-police officer and author of books about missing persons and tribe of
Bigfoot, has been particularly outspoken about Ketchum, placing the responsibility and scientific
study of Bigfoot DNA all on her, saying each of the samples used had its own specific story.
Ketchum alone had all the data, he says, and deserves the praise.
NDAs were signed among participants of the project so that information would not be leaked
prior to the reveal, but it was anyways.
A source of these samples supposedly included a toenail tamed by Biscardi from Larry Johnson,
blood from a smashed PVC pipe, and flesh from the remains of a Bigfoot body.
But it's not clear that all the samples were collected properly.
They also may have been exposed to contamination or degradation.
With the destination true samples of 2008, apparently, the primer for her interest in
the subject in August of 2010, Dr. Ketchum disclosed on the Coast to Coast AM radio program
that she had a scientific paper in the works.
The forthcoming paper provided an excuse for her to avoid discussing the results at the
time.
However, in the fall of 2010, Ketchum was doing additional interviews about her work.
Ideas about Bigfoot being a type of human were already formed by other Bigfoot researchers.
A copyright filing in her name dated September 2010 described a media project related to
quote a new tribe of living humans, end quote.
The theme of a book or video was to be quote Sasquatch as a modern human with some genetic
mutations accounting for their physical appearance, end quote.
This copyright notice foreshadowed the results of her DNA study, stating that the project
would describe quote complete Sasquatch mitochondrial genome sequence and nuclear DNA deviations,
end quote.
Ketchum later brushed aside the notice saying it never came to fruition.
This idea also corresponded to hypotheses proposed by Damon Politis and his book Tribal
Bigfoot published in 2009.
So weird that she's coming to the same conclusion that Politis had in 2009 and is in fact trying
to copyright said thing.
News about Ketchum and the various Bigfoot projects was fed by rumors, speculation, and
opinions that appeared unsourced on the internet.
The social media aspect, especially personal weblogs, sites, and the Facebook network have
provided a near steady stream of both clear and dubious information.
Melba herself became active on her own Facebook page in 2009, providing information directly
to the public.
In June 2012, the public page went away and only the private friend page existed.
Several Bigfoot themed blogs dutifully reproduced any news she posted on Facebook verbatim.
She occasionally did address questions about the study on her page but often referred questions
to her publicist, Sally Raimi, who possibly also posted updates on this page.
Therefore it was not clear who was actually supplying the content for her Facebook page.
In late 2011, Ketchum provided an update on Facebook that results were complete and the
paper was being submitted for publication.
She told her followers to be patient, good science takes time.
Citing the famous skeptical mantra, quote, extraordinary claims require extraordinary
proof.
This is what we are doing, she added.
She appeared confident that her data would stand up to scrutiny.
However, Ketchum herself avoided opportunities for appearing in public.
She was a no show at two conferences in which she was scheduled to speak about Bigfoot DNA,
a Bigfoot conference in Hanobia, Oklahoma in October 2011 and in Richland, Washington,
Bigfoot conference in May 2012.
For the latter, she completed a DNA 101 presentation via Skype peer connection.
These observers in attendance reported their disappointment to interested Bigfoot bloggers.
The community of Bigfooters expressed their concerns that she was avoiding questioning
by not appearing in public and completely controlling the discussion while everyone waited, hopeful
for concrete results.
However, Ketchum has alleged that she chose not to attend because there was a threat against
her person at one of these events.
Every week, a diligent few searched for the embargoed papers awaiting publication.
There are many false alarms.
A prolific blogger named Robert Lindsay was a major informant who published inside information
and leaks from the various Bigfoot projects and activities for several years.
Throughout 2012, he sparked interest in multiple occasions that the Ketchum paper would be
published very soon.
It wasn't.
There were rumors that the paper had been submitted to the prestigious journal Nature,
but it had been sent back due to a lack of qualified authors or testable hypothesis.
In February 2012, Ketchum implored her followers to have patients saying, quote, our data is
amazing and beautiful and all cutting edge.
End quote.
That sounds like a Trump quote right there.
Our data is amazing and beautiful and all cutting edge.
It actually really does.
Now that you say it again after you said it sounds like Trump, it absolutely does.
She also noted she was creating a website for non-scientists to be able to access the
paper and understand what it means.
This was seen to be in the works in December 2012 on the DNA Diagnostics website.
Ketchum continued to hurry up and wait by suggesting that revisions were requested for
the paper, but it was never made clear if it was actually accepted anywhere for publication.
She bragged that the paper had double digit co-authors, many with PhDs and some university
heads of departments.
In July, she assured followers that the basis were covered and quote, it will be worth the
wait.
End quote.
Throughout 2012, her supporters in the Bigfoot community grew frustrated by the secrecy and
delays, confidence in the Ketchum project and in Melba herself eroded.
The red flags noted commentators include rumors of infighting among the project members, the
fractioning of the original group of participants, the ever-moving release date for the data,
and concerns over the sample origins and the ability to result to withstand scrutiny of
the scientific community.
To be clear, many scientific papers do take months of waiting and back and forth exchanges
to revise the manuscript prior to publication.
So this frustration by spectators was unfounded and should, in fairness, not have been attributed
to Ketchum creating delays.
Ketchum threw many observers for a loop when she disclosed that she had actually seen the
creatures herself and described them as quote, peaceful and gentle.
This was the whole thing.
She was a neutral bystander in this, like just a scientist.
And then she started talking about how she'd actually seen them and she fully believes
in them.
This is going off the rails here quickly.
And the paper hasn't even come out yet.
In April of 2012, she made public a photo she said she took with her mobile phone of
an array of sticks in the forest with the suggestion that it was made by the creatures.
This blurry sticks picture incited nasty comments on forums and blogs by a discouraged
audience who bemoaned this unprofessional behavior.
Ketchum claimed to have additional evidence to support the claim that a family of five
playful Sasquatch repeatedly visited a site known as habituation site.
But she did not reveal the location or further details.
Her comments stated that her personal experiences were not meant to convince the non-believers.
The DNA study would do that.
Meanwhile, a parallel Bigfoot DNA project was launched by Brian Sykes, professor of
human genetics at University of Oxford and Dr. Michelle Sartori, director, Musee de Zoology
in Switzerland.
This Oxford project invited submissions of indeterminate DNA samples as part of a larger
inquiry into the genetic relationship between our human species and other hominids.
According to the published schedule for this project, samples were to be collected from
May to September 2012, analyzed from September through November with a paper to be prepared
for publication before the end of 2012.
Because the peer review process does indeed take months and perhaps up to a year, we should
not expect to see the results published until possibly well into 2013.
Dr. Sykes attained a copy of Ketchum's paper to analyze and told me through personal
communications that he has no comment on it, as of the time that this piece was released,
nor any updates on his own project to share.
That is a different tactic from the parade of social leaks Ketchum provided Dr. Meldrum.
of Idaho State University as a well-known academic involved in big research, has also
steered clear of the Ketchum project and instead backs the Sykes study, perhaps even by submitting
a sample towards it.
Meldrum was also critical in semi-public of the Ketchum, quote, science by press release
approach, end quote.
It surely did not help Ketchum's reputation that she was associated with Igor Bertsev,
a Russian Yeti researcher.
In recent past, Meldrum expressed a noise with the approach of Bertsev and the Russian
scientists eager about the study of Bigfoot and the native lands.
When fall 2012 came and no paper had yet appeared, things started to turn sour for the Ketchum
camp.
In September, Ketchum's public relations person, Sally Raimi, was gone.
She was replaced by Robin Lynn Pfeffer, a woman who claimed a family of Bigfoot lived
on her land in Michigan.
She refers to them as the forest people.
She is known in the Bigfoot community for her wildly publicized comments that her Bigfoot's
like blueberry bagels.
Pfeffer's however does not appear to have any experience in either science or in public
relations.
It is not clear why or how Pfeffer was named as Ketchum's spokesperson.
Observers noted in October that Ketchum's lab building in Timson, Texas was closed
and up for lease.
The phone had been disconnected.
One blogger followed up and discovered a backstory of Ketchum's missing payments and her neglect
of the business itself.
The business nevertheless still exists, but at a different mailing address.
Ketchum's key to gaining acceptance for her Bigfoot DNA claims was published in a respective
peer-reviewed scientific journal.
But the plan went awry.
The complicated bicks of people, secrecy, delays, and promises boiled over in late November
when news of the study was outed by Igor Bertsev.
The self-appointed head of the Russian-based International Center of Hominology, Bertsev
issued this urgent announcement on his Facebook page on November 23rd.
Quote, the DNA analysis of the Bigfoot Sasquatch specimen conducted by Dr. Melba Ketchum, the
head of DNA diagnostics, Timson, Texas, has been over.
End quote.
That doesn't really make any sense.
Oh well.
He stated that the team of Americans 90s led by Ketchum analyzed 109 purported samples
of the creature.
Ketchum sounded somewhat dismayed when responding to the leak saying, quote, it is unfortunate
that the partial summary of our data was released in this manner.
However, I will be making a formal response in the next few days.
Even though Igor Bertsev released this, it was not Dr. Bertsev's fault, end quote.
She later admitted that possibly misunderstanding due to language and eagerness was why the
Don disclosure agreement was breached.
At this point, she felt that the study must be addressed instead of ignoring the leak,
and that might cause further damage if left unattended.
After the official announcement of the results in November, Ketchum appeared in a few media
interviews.
In one, she mentioned that the paper of the study would be accompanied by high-definition
video footage of the creature.
The origin of his video is the Ericsson project.
On its website, Ericsson mentions the video and the many samples they collected that were
analyzed for DNA.
Back in February 2012, Ketchum had thanked Ericsson for funding support for DNA testing.
None of the footage has been released except for one still shot of a hairy, indeterminate
shape on the forest floor, and here say that the images were all either wonderful or not
convincing.
The Ericsson project website went down for a while in November of 2011 when it rumored
that Ericsson had run out of money for it.
In resurface in 2012, a few scientists have spoken out showing enthusiasm and interest
in the Ketchum results.
Others were scathing in their criticism against her and the entire concept of the study.
To fuel further ridicule, the quote, unknown novel and quote, DNA was publicized as angel
DNA by blogger Lindsay.
A few press release outlets included this mention in their pieces Dr. Ketchum denies
ever using such a label.
David Politis, the director of the North American Bigfoot Research, once again threw support
behind the results and Ketchum saying quote, Dr. Ketchum originally found the combination
to unlock Bigfoot DNA and utilized top scientists in various fields to validate the results.
The results were independently verified with the group silently sitting on these findings
for months as the results were validated a third and fourth time and quote, if true,
that may explain the delays exhibited through 2010 to 2011.
Politis had more commentary to add regarding the DNA.
In the press, his quoted as saying that quote, it falls in the realm of human end quote experts
in the field of human DNA study may wonder why they weren't consulted for her publication.
The worldwide media coverage over the press release from Ketchum on November had not quite
died down when on December 6 Igor Bircev was spilling more news on Facebook saying the paper
was rejected by the US journals but is now under review in a Russian journal.
Bircev issued a scathing review of what he considers the closed-minded American science
establishment and the rejection of Bigfoot noting that the creature's existence is accepted
by the public as if scientific truth is somehow based on popular vote.
Response from the Ketchum camp was incoherent with Robin Lynn remarking contrary to Bircev
that the paper was still under review and quote, extremely scientific end quote.
Again we are left wondering what role Bircev was playing with this drama.
There may be some truth in the allegations that reputable science journals could not
touch the study due to its association with Bigfoot.
Because there is no type specimen or any corroborate incredible physical evidence, there is no
justification for mentioning a creature known only for folklore in the study.
Scientifically all of this results could say is that the DNA is unidentified.
Which yes, if you're writing it scientifically, you should remain neutral like that.
Yeah, that sounds like a rubber thing to do.
Then the paper finally appears.
On February 12, 2013, Ketchum commented on Facebook media outlets.
Buckle up and the next day the paper appeared along with a press release.
The study, quote, North American hominins next generation sequencing of three whole
genomes and associated studies, end quote, which analyzed DNA from a total of 111 high
quality samples submitted from across the continent appeared in the inaugural issue
of DeNovo Journal of Science.
The co-authors were Ketchum, Wojcowicz, Watts, Spence, Holdzenberg, Toller, Pritchettko,
Zhang, Bollinger, Scholders, and Smith.
The paper describes the conclusion stated earlier in the November pre-paper press release
that both the mitochondrial and nuclear DNA were sequenced.
The mitochondrial DNA inherited from the maternal side was human, but the nuclear DNA was not.
This consisted of a structural mosaic of, quote, human and novel non-human DNA, end quote.
Upon attempting to access the paper the morning it appeared, I encountered the next huge misstep
by Ketchum.
The journal DeNovo is a brand new online outlet that consists of one issue with only this
one paper.
The website is clunky and amateurishly designed with stock, sciency photos of animals and test
tubes.
The strangely placed by now button was in the center, yet on one page the words DeNovo
Open Access floats in a blank box.
For a moment I did think the paper was freely available.
Not so.
Clicking on the by now button I was taking to the checkout page that charged $30 to access
it.
What?
Backing out of the site to look for other reactions I noticed that several bigfoot bloggers
had already obtained complimentary copies, or they had managed to download the paper for
free of a slight glitch.
I requested through email to the address in the press release a complimentary press copy
as well.
The inquiry was not answered.
I was provided two review versions of the paper later in the day via other means.
Regarding the origin of DeNovo, Ketchum said on the day of the paper release that an unnamed
journal had accepted the paper after peer review was completed, but their lawyer advised them
not to publish due to the disreputable topic.
Instead of continuing to shop the paper to other sources, she decided to acquire the rights
to this unnamed journal.
Suspected to be the journal of advanced and multidisciplinary exploration and zoology.
Looking into the history of that journal, investigators found it was registered under
Ketchum's name on January 9th, 2013.
This led to serious ethical questions about the publishing.
The DeNovo website was created on February 4th, 2013, just nine days prior to the release
of the paper.
Ketchum claims to have documentation of the prior reviews and from the acquisition of
the new journal.
These and any information on which journals previously rejected the paper have not used
yet been released.
In the announcement of the paper, Ketchum mentioned two associated websites, the Sasquatch
Genome Project and the Global Sasquatch Foundation.
Both were produced with what appeared to be the very basic web tools hosted on low volume
servers.
Both sites failed the first day possibly due to the traffic.
Prior to their inaccessibility, I captured some information published on them.
On the Sasquatch Genome Project, Ketchum denied she self-published and took a dig at the scientific
community.
We encountered the worst scientific bias in the peer review process in recent history.
End quote.
Again, sounds like a Trump quote.
What's her deal?
I guess Trump wouldn't have said recent history.
He called it the Galileo effect and suggested that she was treated unfairly.
Ketchum's explanation for publishing in DeNovo was that she was eager to get the data out
there and not have to deal with further rejections, hinting that all the previous reviewers were
less than decent or open-minded seemingly because they rejected her work.
On the Global Sasquatch Foundation site, the statement appeared, quote,
Due to the efforts of our founder, Dr. Melba Ketchum, it has been proven that Sasquatch
are a human hybrid.
Here at GSF, we have made it a priority to protect these indigenous peoples from being
hunted, harassed, or even killed, end quote.
One could assert that this statement was premature considering the scientific community had not
assessed her conclusion.
Regardless, she had extreme confidence in her results.
The Foundation site also included pictures of stick structures supposedly constructed
by the creatures and a photo of a matted horse mane.
An example of what Ketchum had alleged is Sasquatch's braids is in the horse manes.
As for the paper itself, it was incomprehensible to those without specialized training in genomics
or forensics.
It began with the premise that Sasquatch exists and this study helps to confirm that.
Two days later, Ketchum announced through social media that unnamed, quote,
Top Level Scientist, end quote, volunteered to assess her data.
A few days after that, a statement appeared on the Danova website from David Swenson,
a biochemist, who said he reviewed the manuscript and agrees with the conclusion.
The statement, as well as Ketchum's own statement, and those of her spokesperson,
were all riddled with grammatical and typographical errors.
The few experienced geneticists who viewed the paper reported a dismal opinion of it,
noting it made little sense.
The DNA sequences did indeed contain matches to a human chromosome, 11.
A lot of the undetermined DNA and some that in part matched to other animals.
Thus, the whole sequences do not resemble any known animal and are contradictory with
evolutionary biology.
In a curious side note, the term Danovo is used in bioinformatics to designate the absence
of a reference genome.
Next generation sequencing technology was used in the study to read the whole genome,
a process that used to be far more time and labor intensive.
There are problems with NGS, Danovo protocols that can lead to poor quality data.
We do not know if the results were properly evaluated prior to concluding that the genome
data could be used and if the interpretation of the results is reasonable.
These factors will likely come into play during the external review of the paper.
Some critics have stated that the DNA may have been contaminated.
Ketchum assures everyone that she fully accounted for contamination issues and dismisses its
allegations citing her own lab's experience with handling forensic crime samples.
The samples have not been made available to others, so there is currently no way for anyone
to run a test to compare results.
There appears to be multiple places where the data quality could have been compromised
regardless of how confident Ketchum is in her results.
Accompanying the official version of the paper was Ericsson's video which supposedly showed
a sleeping Sasquatch.
Made public a day later showed a brown furry mass sleeping on a woodland floor.
Ericsson project claimed that the DNA was obtained from this individual named Matilda,
which was analyzed as part of the Ketchum study providing a link to a real creature.
The promised high definition video evidence was not made available.
Within a week, researcher Bill Munns claimed that he had acquired still shots of Matilda
whereby the face strongly resembled Chewbacca, a tall, hairy, bigfoot assed creature from
the Star Wars movies.
If that wasn't enough to increase the derision of Ketchum's work, what may be the most
feeling fine came from careful readers on a skeptical forum.
Three of the references cited in Ketchum's paper as prior published research on the creatures
were discovered to be questionable in validity.
One was an openly stated April Fools prank that concluded the Yeti was actually an ungulate,
hooved mammal, in that its resemblance to apes was due to convergent evolution.
When confronted with this information, Ketchum denied responsibility saying she was told
to include all references by one reviewer.
She had not conceded that she knew they weren't reputable scientific works.
So what does Ketchum have?
Is it human DNA with an undocumented variation?
Is it an animal sample contaminated with human DNA or vice versa?
Is it a concocted hoax?
Or is it actual unique DNA that may point to the existence of an unknown hominin?
In a revealing interview on Coast to Coast AM, she told the public she is not after glory,
would rather avoid the publicity and has turned down money making offers.
She admitted that she wouldn't tackle this project if given another chance due to the
trouble it created for her.
She admits she was not privy to the culture of Sasquatchery that exists where many players
try to either one up or discredit the other person.
She is solidly convinced that she has enough data to unquestionably make the case for the
existence of Bigfoot even without a type specimen.
In the Coast to Coast AM conversation, she likened them to special forces soldiers who
cannot be seen unless they want to be.
She has completely accepted that they exist across North American, wishes them to be
protected as a tribe of people.
In the presentation of this potentially urshaking discovery, Ketchum lost every shred of scientific
credibility through her short circuiting genetic experts and the process of peer review.
Instead she attempted to appeal to the popular Bigfoot enthusiast crowd as their savior who
has the goods.
Even that backfired.
She continued to make excuses instead of admitting her errors in poor judgment.
She censors those who point out these serious problems or ask questions about them.
She has not exhibited cooperation with geneticists who are experts in human DNA.
The people supporting her are not usually helpful to her cause.
Her disclosures about her own personal sightings and obvious missteps in the process have done
much to sabotage her own credibility.
It's not a pleasant picture.
For now, Ketchum's chapter in the saga of Bigfoot remains unresolved.
There's one thing we can be certain of.
This is not the end of the Bigfoot story.
The legend will live on in the hearts.
That's the end of the article.
What do you think of it?
Having not been able to read it in any way, even the abstract and only hearing critique?
The guy that wrote The Guy or Girl did a great job, I think.
Way better than it seems she did at putting out this information.
It really felt like she was open to actually seeing it and it being Bigfoot.
This is a terrible story.
There was no way this is coming out good.
What business does she have doing DNA?
Sharon or Melba?
Melba.
Melba does have a DNA lab.
We're actually going to talk about that a bit.
She does have a background in veterinary studies.
She has her doctor.
Veterinary medicine.
Why would that lead her to DNA diagnostics?
I think she found an opening with it.
She does have specialization in it.
She has worked with courts in the past and provided expert opinions on DNA analysis.
We're going to get that to DNA.
It's all over the map and I'm really not sure if we could say it's non-human, human.
Exactly what she's done.
She's done countless, but that will come up in a minute here.
I mean, I know I'm reading her biography.
It says she does DNA diagnostics, but what makes her an expert in that?
I believe she does have training in it and courses, but I couldn't actually point to
the specific courses because all I know is she has a veterinary doctorate.
That's all I'm looking at here.
I can't find anything else.
I also see here that he did a big foot and giant discoveries with George Knapp for four
hours to full coast AM.
He's also planned at that point on sampling giants and elongated skulls for DNA.
So I'm surprised that George Knapp spent that much time with her.
At that point, she's a DNA expert.
And I will say I've listened to a couple of the podcasts she's been on in the last three
years, I would say.
She still asserts that this paper shows exactly what she wants it to show.
She receives no pushback from anybody.
That's the thing about this freaking community.
Like they're just giving the people what they want to hear because it's so fringe.
Well that and the broadcaster as well, they don't want to lose access to these people
so they don't do pushback.
I think it's as simple as saying that.
Or they don't want to do the work because if you're hosting a daily show, like it's
really hard to actually critically analyze everything that you're going to be talking
about.
That's true.
But I don't know, they don't critically analyze anything.
You think if you're doing a daily show, at least like maybe once in a while, you'd have
the time to do it?
Well, I'm surprised at George Knapp because George Knapp is pretty good.
I usually pretty good.
I listened to one today where she was on, oh, what was it?
Spaced out radio.
I've never heard them before I was listening to it.
Clearly enough, he was posting from Central British Columbia, so he's somewhere near me.
She brought up that she saw Bigfoot's out of fence mind communicating with something.
And then also that the Kandahar giant is real, which we've covered in the past.
It is that story is so made up.
And I realized that every single link that I can find to get to her is also deadwind.
Yeah, everything's down.
She still does shows.
She goes on very select shows.
She maybe does for interviews a year now, I think somewhere in that range of like two
to seven.
She thinks she would exist somewhere.
Oh, she does, Chelsea.
I'm going to send you to her.
Which one am I on here?
Sorry, I have way too many links open.
Her GoFundMe page.
Looks like the Sasquatch genome project website.
Well, there's the picture.
So she has asked for $20,000 to help fun.
Augman.
She has Bigfoot, Dogvan, Giant and others DNA that she now wants to study and she made
$20,000.
And good news, everybody.
She has $26,000 as of reading a podcast.
So she still does have a following out there.
This is crazy.
The even crazier thing I found out about her, Chelsea.
If you search her name on Amazon, she has a couple books that she wrote that I don't
know how to describe them.
They're either young adult fiction about a family of Bigfoot's living in the forest
or their romance erotic Bigfoot novels.
I can't tell.
But she was writing these just after her DNA scientific paper came out because they start
in 2014.
Let me take a look.
But I also have to say about this GoFundMe.
At least David Wilcock is on YouTube working for his donation.
He has a grandma.
He will whore himself out there for every dollar.
Why can't I find this?
I'm an Ascendant.
I'm sad I miss that life.
Stick for his memories.
Oh, they're holding hands.
Yeah, I can't tell if it's supposed to be young adult or if it's supposed to be romance.
Is that a Bigfoot?
Is that supposed to be a Bigfoot?
Chelsea, do you want to read the quote from the book?
Oh, I was going to read the review.
They're all five stars.
Please just read that.
Okay, quote.
If only I hadn't gotten lost.
If I hadn't strayed into the woods, none of this would be happening.
I wouldn't break Garrett's heart.
I wouldn't have hurt my parents and my brother.
Sorry, I wouldn't have.
It's all my fault.
If only I hadn't been so foolish.
She shided herself as tears ran down and a torrent down her face.
What have I done?
Lucy McKay has decisions to make that will change her life forever.
The form between the mystical and oftentimes dangerous world of the forest people and her
normal teenage life with her family, she must choose.
But how can she, when she longs for both, only Gracie can decide the forest people?
Yeah, that's the Bigfoot.
That's what she calls them.
That's their tribe she wants to protect.
That's fucking weird.
Exactly.
Now, imagine you want to be taken seriously as a scientific author of a very serious
Bigfoot paper and within the year you write, I can't tell Chelsea.
Young adult or romance novel?
Which one is it?
Young adult for sure.
Look at the picture on the back.
Oh, and their teeth?
Yeah.
Do you think this is AI?
No, this is before AI.
And Chelsea, there's another one called Mystic Forest Wishes and it has the same picture
on the back.
Yeah, do you want to read some of the reviews?
They're all five star.
Gracie and Zari's adventures continue.
Great sequel.
The stories of Gracie and Zari continue in this book.
Gracie struggles with teenage angst as she tries to try Slyman Balsari's words and her
own at the same time.
Learning to live in two worlds opens up news perspectives and makes bought her and Zari
better people.
That's thirsty for truth that reviewed that.
Booty, love, love, love this book.
Next book, please.
Love this one.
Amazon customer.
Fantastic book.
It's just me wishing I didn't have to wait for the next in the series.
Can I mark it helpful?
That's it.
Well, I guess they're-
Someone's getting it for their birthday.
But yeah, like I said, Chelsea, like everything to do with this journal and this paper disappeared.
As far as I can tell immediately upon it being released, it's still touted to this day as
a very real scientific journal paper that needs to be taken seriously.
That is so bizarre and it's nowhere to be found.
David Politis, June 24th, 2019 on Coast to Coast AM, quote from this episode.
No, well, yes, I get it.
In the second hour, Politis talked about various types of evidence for Bigfoot, including
Melba Ketchum's DNA testing, which indicated that the creature is actually a type of human
hybrid.
This was six years after that debacle of it being released.
That is messed up.
She knows that is not real.
I also just say, I have to say this quick, this is going back a little bit.
I tried to find the book myself on Amazon and I'm looking at a bunch of Ketchum and
it turns out I spelled your name wrong.
Okay.
There's some Melinda's Ketchum.
It looks pretty good.
That's probably more reputable.
I will say that.
Probably.
It looks pretty nice.
I don't really know what Melba's doing outside of this Bigfoot and was I cryptid DNA study
because I have to redo this other article I found.
In June 2021, Dr. Ketchum was accused by the Harris County Public Defender's Office of
professional misconduct related to her forensic analysis in a criminal trial.
Well, Ketchum committed misconduct when she testified about the forensic analysis of canine
DNA while knowing her laboratory was not accredited under Texas law.
The complaint also alleged Ketchum presented incomplete and misleading testimony regarding
the DNA analysis in the case by failing to explain the limitation of her opinion.
The commission finds the testimony of Ketchum in the trial was incomplete and poses substantial
risk of misleading the trial of fact.
The commission also found Ketchum was aware of and consciously disregarded the accepted
standard of practice as set forth in purviewed articles she co-authored.
Ketchum's testimony constitute professional misconduct because she was aware of and consciously
disregarded any accepted standard of practice.
Oh shit.
Through Dr. Ketchum's testimony in the trial, though Dr. Ketchum's testimony in the trial
was separate from her Bigfoot research, they are closely related.
For example, her analysis in both cases involved misidentification of mitochondrial sequencing
of non-human hairs overstating the certainty of her conclusion.
And just regarding accepted standards of practice in her field, her expert testimony misconduct
is in some ways more serious than that of her Bigfoot research as it occurred in the
context of a criminal trial and could have contributed to an innocent person being wrongly
convicted or a guilty person's going free.
And I will end it there.
Turns out she's not that good at it and it was funny because in some of the interviews
I was listening to she said that the Bigfoot paper impacted her work with the court because
she gets discredited for working on the Bigfoot case when really they're pointing to it as
very shitty genetic analysis.
Not because you did Bigfoot work.
People are probably pretty quick to accept that as an answer who we're looking for, who
are really heated about stuff like this coming up.
That's pretty damning.
This is a court that saying, you know, you're not properly doing your work as a professional.
And particularly in the exact same way that you're claiming you've done your work in the
Bigfoot project, not claiming it in there, just kind of being able to cross reference
it that way.
Just right there.
You can tell right away that she doesn't do her work as a professional.
She's able to get 26 grand from people to continue on.
So I guess we may have a follow up episode on Dr. Melba Ketchum at some time in the near
future.
I hope she keeps putting out books.
See, it's been 10 years since the last one.
I think this might be the conclusion of the Mystic Forest, unfortunately.
She has some people that are waiting.
Well, that's crazy.
Thank you to the person who did the fricking.
Yeah, Sharon, you know what?
Sharon Hill, your life's end to the skeptic community.
That was a fantastic breakdown of something that had to be done at the time because you
can't find it anymore.
Better listen to the podcast for free for the rest of her life.
We'll send her a free copy in the email.
Yeah, but if floppy disk.
I gotta say, a comment, of course, spring came in the latest.
It's six years later and he comes saying that this is credible work.
God, I love that.
I'm sure you could find it other places.
I just, I always check coast to coast because I know he's on there and they actually do
a fairly good job of working down what's discussed.
So I was like, I bet it's in here and Sharon out.
What's the point in him?
He's going to call him out on it.
Like these guys only go on shows that don't call him out.
He's so hard pressed to give an answer of what's missing for when one is, which I think
he's now saying is UFOs.
I'm really behind on him.
But why specifically if you're so cautious to not be discredited by saying something,
why would you get behind someone like that doesn't make sense?
But he's he's an asshole.
So he's on the list.
The show that's coming, we know it.
We did an episode on him at the asshole episode, but the asshole episode on David Blatis was
one of the episodes we got pushed back on to.
That's where the was that the in a nap.
Yeah, that was the in a laughter episode.
Oh yeah, it was.
I love a name laughter, but in any event, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.
We are journey to the fringe.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.
Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe.
If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow,
depending on what venue you are listening to us through.
Also please, if possible, leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms.
Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice.
I bet you we are there.
And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell
us that we're wrong and terrible either way, please send us an email.
At Journey to the Fringe at gmail.com.
For now, I'll see you in the next episode.