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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.

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Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where you are listening to the most environmentally

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friendly way to listen to us or rate, unless you're like in the same house as us.

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I don't think those people listen to us. So hey, look at you. We are your orating

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podcast hosts, Taylor and Chelsea here today to finish up what I think is technically a

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three-part series. I think that's at least how you're putting it out there, Chelsea.

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If I'm counting it correctly, then yeah, yeah, we're on the same page. Yeah, and I guess I'll

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just let you take that over. And this is the longest we've gone between episodes of us

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parters in a series. It is. So if you'll remember back on the last episode, we were

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covering the Mothman. Originally, I said this is going to be two episodes and now we're

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on the third. So I think I'm going to cover everything and end it all this episode. We'll

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see where it takes us. I cut the Mothman Prophecies episode right down the middle to make it an

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enjoyable experience for all of us. And if you recall last week, as I just said, again,

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because I like to say things over and over, we were discussing some of the themes of the

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book. So today we're picking back up at more themes, which is hypnosis is the first one

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we're up with. Let's just start right off with a quote from the book. The contactee

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syndrome is a fundamental reprogramming process. No matter what frame of reference is being

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used, the experience usually begins with either the sudden flash of a light or a sound, a

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humming, buzzing or beeping. Subjects attention is riveted to a pulsing, flickering light

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of dazzling intensity. He finds he is unable to move a muscle and is rooted to the spot.

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What is really happening? The recipient is first entranced by a flickering light. From

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the moment he feels paralyzed, he loses touch with reality and begins to hallucinate. The

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light remains a light, but his or her mind constructs something else. This can be compared

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with normal hypnosis. In quote, he'll says he has been a amateur hypnotist for many years

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and bracket that was a bracket. This guy had a lot of hobbies. He really did hypnotize

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subject very often thinks he is fully conscious that the hypnosis isn't working and he is

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just going along with the hypnotist. But when he tries to move or disobey a command, he

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is surprised to find he can't. The paralysis reported in so many UFO cases is really a

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form of hypnosis. In quote, he goes on to connect rhythmic lighting associated with

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UFOs as well, not only sightings, but also from contactees who are on board the craft.

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So that's his thing with hypnosis. Another interesting theme in the book is mimics.

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I really liked this topic. He explains, quote, the phenomenon is imitative. This paranormal

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mimicry is difficult for many to understand, but I come across constant examples. Early

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January 1973, for instance, a reliable witness in Ohio observed an unusual looking helicopter

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which she was able to describe in detail. When she sketched it for a local UFO enthusiast,

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he was flabbergasted. Does that sound right to say it that way?

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I see no other way of saying that word Chelsea. He was an aeronautical engineer specializing

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in helicopters and he knew the thing she drew was a new secret helicopter that was still

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on the drawing board. Even closer to home, a few days after Tad Jones were talking about

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Tad Jones, by the way, he had a sighting on Route 64. A few days before his sighting on

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Route 64, Drew magazine hit the stands with an article of mine about flying saucers. It

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was illustrated with drawings of all kinds of odd shaped objects, many of them the pure

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products of the artist's imagination. It included an exact replica of Jones's sphere

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that he witnessed, complete with wheeled legs and propeller. An object exactly like this

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had never been described in the UFO literature before or since. The artist had produced his

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layout weeks before. Somehow the phenomenon had mischievously duplicated the artist's

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conception for Jones's benefit. So that's kind of a cool, you know, I didn't put some

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stuff that I thought I had put in here, but I think it kind of comes up in a second right

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after this one. Not sure why I broke it up like this, but here we go. You're going to

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like this one. Another thing that I thought was interesting was Keele's observations

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of the roles of crossroads and lays in high strangeness scenarios. I guess we've noticed

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that one before kind of not lays so much as crossroads. No, but we've talked about lays

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in their own episode before. Yes, we have talked about lays. Definitely. Quote in earlier

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times, fairies, demons and even human witches practicing their block Sabbath rights chose

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gravel pits, garbage dump cemeteries and crossroads for their appearances. They told

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us garbage dump. Yeah, I put in those lay lines. Yeah. Does that make them like pollute

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more or less? I just trust the key loop saying okay. I just I really like that there's probably

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like a city hall meeting in every town where they put down like the proposed site of the

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new dump and then they put down like one of those cellophane pieces of paper over top

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of it showing where the lay lines are and his connection to the great clear mist. Wow.

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Yeah, I know. Harry monsters and UFOs select the same sites. Quite a few UFO contacts have

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occurred near crossroads or on highways still under construction at points where old highways

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once intersected. Daren burgers first contact with injured cold was on a newly completed

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highway yards from an old intersection. Cross the river. The vast Indian mounds of Ohio

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stand as mute testimony as some earlier culture almost identical to the culture which constructed

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the great mounds of Great Britain. The latter were joined by straight tracks or lays which

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formed a complicated grid system. I wonder if a similar lay grit may not have once existed

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in West Virginia and I studied aerial photos and old maps looking for such a system. There

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are tiny traces here and there but modern farmers and builders destroyed most of the

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old artifacts just as they had destroyed a great many of mound stone towers etc. that

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stood on this continent when the first Europeans arrived had would he been stopped on the cross

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point of some old lay network. The only clue lies in Mr. Cold's uncharacteristic selection

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for a name. In his study of the British lays the view over Atlantis John Mitchell said

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uh, uh, we know who he is quote from John Mitchell within this quote. A peculiar feature

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of the old alignments is that certain names appear with remarkable frequency along their

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routes names with red, white and black are common so are cold or coal dodd Mary and lay

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end quote. It would be keeping with the twisted logic of the entities to call attention to

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a West Virginia lay system by staging their landings at specific points along the grid

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and adopting names like cold. Just another note with this he says that UFOs are common

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to be found hovering over buried gas lines. I don't know they like hovering over things.

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Are we laying those on lay lines too? Yeah. I mean I don't know that he's connecting

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them with lay lines specifically but the UFOs are like into hovering over them. I mean if

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you name enough things what are they not hovering over you know. And they're usually hovering

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like not just above the ground. They're not like inches off the ground so they can kind

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of technically be hovering over a large swath. And also like I don't know maybe back in the

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60s it was different but basically there's gas lines everywhere like you have to call

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to ask where they are if you're gonna make a hole in the ground. That's true. This would

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be hot on the heels of John Mitchell, his book coming out on lays so he might have just

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been looking for a connection with lays because it doesn't go very far in the episode that

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we talked about. That being said I wonder if there isn't something with crossroads because

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did we do an episode on crossroads or is it something we talked about doing? No I thought

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about a Halloween episode. I don't think it specifically has come up though as its own

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episode. Yeah I think there might be something to that but he this book is all about him

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you know he might have just been throwing stuff to the wind and seeing what sticks.

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But I thought it an interesting thing especially with the crossroads. So the next one which

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I found very interesting which I'm surprised I split up of mimics because this seems to

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be the same thing which is doppelgangers and high strangeness which could also fit under

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the men in black perhaps as well as mimics depending on what you think is going on but

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here's part two instead of under mimics or men in black. Quote north of Gallipolis Ohio

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I am impulsively stopped at an isolated farmhouse one afternoon and when I knocked on the door

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a grim faced man answered with a shotgun in his hands. I started to show my credentials

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and explain who I was but he cut me short quote I know who you are he growled we don't

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want anything to do with you get out of here. Like my traumatic reenactment. Own answer

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I know you love it. It's like I'm there Chelsea it's like I'm there. Puzzled I reported back

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to Mary higher we'll talk about her later and suggested that she visit the farm to see

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if she could find out the reason for the man strange behavior. Did they check if there

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was a lay line apparently it's like everything. No probably just how do we have the room to

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like function so much on these lay lines I always thought they were pretty thin. I don't

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know. The next day we went back I remained in the car while she talked with him for several

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minutes finally they both came out to the car laughing. You're not going to believe

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this but ten minutes before you arrived here yesterday I got a phone call. Sounded like

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a neighbor of mine and he said he was calling to warn me about a crazy man a real dangerous

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type with a beard that had just been to see him. Ten minutes later you showed up after

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you left I called him back he was out in the fields had been all day his wife had to go

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get him and he said he hadn't made that call end quote from that guy. The farmer goes on

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to relay that he had an encounter a week prior to the visit from Keele in his backfield

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that caused his cattle to run through an electric fence. The object left a 30 foot circle of

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scorched earth on the hillside. There's another encounter where Keele is visiting a contactee

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and upon knocking on the contactee's door he relays that he had literally just given

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a person that looked like him five minutes before all the information that Keele was

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asking for. So he had in essence showed up five minutes prior to his arrival. I didn't

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know where to stick this point but entities can't seem to make sense of time. If whether

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it's how we perceive it or exactly where they seem to be in our time they'll say funny things

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like I'll see you in time or their dress will be out of style. I think it actually came

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up in the last episode with the men in black like they'll say like 23 skidoo. Yeah they

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just seem to not know whereabouts or how it worked. Contactees would often receive repeated

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telephone calls where there was no one there or they would hear static or clicks. There's

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a real uncomfortable part of the book. I was uncomfortable anyway where there seemed to

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be heavy breathing and Keele rest assured lets us know it's definitely not a heavy breathing

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of someone master painting on the other end. Which I felt was a detail anyhow in a UFO

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book. It makes you worry about the rest of the book where he didn't mention that. It

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really did. Remember when I said there is unnecessary sexual undertones. I wonder if

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he didn't. Not their way. His metaphors and similes were not a good thing. Yeah I don't

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know if he felt he was doing good research for that. The water of the brook gently lapped

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against the rocks. Nothing at all like the sound of a band master painting. Yes nothing

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at all. No. I could see how one might think that but I ruled it out. What else. Okay so

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the weird phones. There were many stories of footsteps. Well not many. Okay there is

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one story of footsteps on the roof. Strange metallic clangings or the sounds of car doors

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slamming outside the door when there were no cars in sight. And I just need to pause

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there. And it has nothing related to the story I think. But it does make me think of our

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Bigfoot episode that we did because of the mimicry with Bigfoot. And there is a whole

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bunch of people that say that slamming car doors when they were at walk in campsites

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if you remember. I do yeah. So I thought that was an interesting detail. I weirdly remember

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that more thoroughly than the last episode. It's super creepy that's why you remember.

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Yeah. Can you imagine. I don't know I'm sorry Chelsea I'm distracted. Right now I just got

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you know the movie the Mothman prophecy which we've talked about and that scene where Richard

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Gears on the phone with Ingrid Cole. I just I'm trying to remember if at any time in that

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phone call there was an awkward silence. I'm pretty sure Richard doesn't ask it any time

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are you masturbating. I'm trying to think if that's worth that part of the story. I did

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say not exactly like that. I'm trying something out real quick. You tell me what this sounds

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like. It's just so like I'm faster. Okay. Tell me in your goals. Okay. One family reported

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that the hatch for the entrance of their attic had been mysteriously moved. That's a weird

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one. Bodyless places. Wait they mean like it was left open when they didn't suspect

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it to be open right now like the hatch was in a different location than when they were

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where they were used to it being right. That's a good point. I took it as that it was moved

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but it could be what you say. Okay. Now that you say that that makes a little more sense.

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I really feel like it's just the door was a jar or something and we're like we have

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literally the wording that they use. Okay. So yeah it could be that it moved completely

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or it was opened and they didn't open it. I put it in high strangeness because it probably

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the whole thing moved on the roof probably from that from how they phrase that yes the

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only actual conclusion. Exactly that's a conclusion I jumped to anyhow. Bodyless voices if I didn't

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say that one family heard someone walking on the roof. Oh shit. I put this again. They

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look out their window to see a man running through their backyard and just jumps clear

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over their fence. Now this does all take place around Christmas right. It takes place over

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like a year or so. Okay. So it's not necessarily a Santa explanation there. Okay. Large birds.

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I feel like he just lands in a like general location and he's the one who's actually physically

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fit and he just bolts the like 50 houses and then comes back. Probably. I mean if you're

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a super athlete like that why wouldn't you be running on the roofs of houses and shit.

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No. I don't know. I'm not a super athlete like that. So large birds not an off man.

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There were large bird sightings. So quote is an example. George Wolf Jr. 23 a beaver

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falls Pennsylvania. He was out hunting when he came across a seven foot tall bird that

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looked something like an ostrich and quote in a cornfield. I'll leave you with that.

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Maybe I'll see what I can find for a future episode. Isn't that a height roughly up? Well

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hold on. There was more. I don't know. I've never met one in real life. Actually I did

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in Australia in the zoo. Didn't like it though. I got out of there. And the quote goes on

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quote. I could see it dodging in and out among the trees. He said it didn't leap over the

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brush like a deer would do but it just zigzag through the trees. It cannot stretch in a

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strange sideways motion. Okay. That is ostriches are six foot 11 to nine feet tall. Okay. So

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it was exactly as tall as an ostrich. Don't I look stupid. There are also cattle mutilations

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mentioned in the book. I was going to read you a passage but I feel like I've read enough

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passages and not about gets you the gist of it that there was a cattle mutilation. Another

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big thing that happens throughout the book and you kind of saw it with the doppelganger

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type thing is chatter. I don't know that I'd really heard of this before. It may be exclusive

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to keel. It might not be because I haven't read a lot of you phologists. You've what

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do they call it? You follow just you're right. I don't know if this is something that is

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quite common to happen to them or not. This is the first time I kind of heard of it. So

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keel experiences throughout this book is chatter and that's being that he receives various

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messages all over the place from entities through contactees where they're told to

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pass on a message to keel as well as men in black type entities providing him with messages.

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The chatter starts slowly in the book but by the end keel is receiving so many different

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messages and it seems whatever it is that's causing all this chatter is always one step

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ahead. These entities are predicting things. Some come true. Some things are really off.

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At what point he gets a message saying that the pope was going to be assassinated by a

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man dressed in black in the Middle East on a certain date. The date comes and goes with

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no such incident but at a later date actually not too far away the pope did have an attempt

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to assassination in Southeast Asia by a man dressed in all black. So they got the date

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a little wrong so maybe you can explain it away by they're probably fucking with them.

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It's super strange actually what's going on with it. Keel had received a message that

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the grid would go down during the president lighting the Christmas tree I believe it was.

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This one I don't have the exact page reference but keel leaves town with a trunk full of

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water and the day comes and goes nothing happens and he ends up meeting with a contactee after

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the fact and the contactee says that an entity told keel something like I'll help you drink

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all that water or something. So just another interesting part of the book it would be interested

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to know if other ufologists have something similar that would happen to them. Another

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theme of the book is overwhelming fear in the book keel walks through areas where he

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has an overwhelming sense of dread with seemingly no explanation he goes back during the day

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and can attribute it to any types of wires electric boxes etc. Typical but I thought

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it deserved a mention nonetheless. Another it's not really a theme it's kind of a theory

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that he puts forth in the book is that people will see what they can handle so that would

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be how contactees appear to certain people how do you know foes will appear to people.

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Keel has a theory that whatever this phenomenon is that it will appear to you with something

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that you can make sense of. So basically the strange things appearing differently are appearing

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different to different people when encountering the same thing when they're looking at the

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same thing it can appear different hence why you get different encounters. Does that not

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kind of cover for anyone where they've given contradictory evidence as to a story that

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they're telling like if two people could that not also be attributed to them lying and making

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sure they're telling the same story. Yeah I guess it could yeah it could be that. I could

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see that happening I could see it being a psychological effect where people would shape

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something or just easily see him not wanting to throw out investigations that he's done

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because they were full of shit. Maybe it's definitely a theory too or whether it's a

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psychological thing where people mentally see what they can handle or it's just a part

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of this paranormal aspect that it appears as what. Yeah it could also just be the byproduct

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of leading questions that he's been asking. He'll ask the different leading questions

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and take them different paths for people who had the same experience. I would say that

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whether or not he's asking the leading questions yes. I would say that's probably a thing that

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does happen with encounters where you don't know what you're seeing because you can't

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make sense of what it is in you know everyday life so your brain kind of tries to make up

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for that to try and make sense of it even like even it's something that's so strange.

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That's a fair point but we also have a bunch of caveats already with keel so like him writing

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off the fact that people are giving different stories for the same encounter. I don't know

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he seems like a lazy investigator and he's just gonna go with it. Yeah what's the next

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one? Phone interference. I thought I already talked about it. I'm gonna go on with it because

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this is something that I didn't include up there when I was talking about phone interference.

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Right so one person was having a conversation with somebody on the phone and someone comes

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on the line and says quote wake up down there and quote another where they answered the

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phone and it's just someone talking really fast like a tape recorder on fast forward.

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Something huge or anything but I find it kind of interesting. Maybe it's not the most interesting

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thing in the book but here we are. And last thing on the mothman prophecies as far as

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themes go this isn't a theme but hey I have to throw in a Canadian sighting for no good

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reason. A woman living alone on an isolated island north of Vancouver BC. Canada has two

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curious encounters with the same kind of beings. She had moved into a tiny one room cabin on

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Keats Island October 1967 and was soon seeing UFO lights nightly. On January 29 1968 following

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a close sighting of a long dark body with dumb red and yellow lights at both ends she

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was surprised by two visitors. Both were neat dark coveralls and claimed to be employees

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of the hydroelectric company. They offered to help her put up a stove pipe. The younger

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of the two climbed on the roof of her cabin while the other handed him the pipes. I could

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hear the man on the ground directing him and the one on the roof would answer yes master.

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After the pipe was installed the employees joined her for tea. They seemed a little stiff

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when they left she wondered how they had known she was there because the cabin couldn't

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be seen from the road and the stove was out when they arrived so there was no smoke from

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the chimney. On May 2 she again encountered two men. One was the boss hydro man in his

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neat coveralls she reported. The other was a different younger man about 19 to 20 as

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I entered the path the boss man indicated with his hand for the young man to get behind

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him. They got well off the path and waited for me. The young man a little behind his

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boss. The fellow stared at me as if I was some kind of freak. This time she didn't

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invite them for tea. One odd thing she noticed during both meetings was their slow careful

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way of walking. They looked at their feet and stepped very uncertainly. The next day

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a jeep came along the road containing four men inspecting lines. Carelessly dressed

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work a day men none in hot coveralls. The boss wasn't obviously so. They expressed

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no surprise at seeing me there no concern of any particular interest. I told them two

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of their men had already been around the day before inspecting lines. They assured me yesterday's

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men weren't hydro men that someone had been pulling my leg. So there you have it.

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Not just pulling their leg they had a slave situation going on.

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Yeah they did master. Mothman prophecies in a nutshell. Criticism you ask? Why? In May

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slash June of 2002 an issue of skeptical inquirer journalist John C. Sherwood a former business

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associate of UFO researcher Gray Barker published an analysis of private letters between Keel

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and Barker during the period of Keel's investigation. In the article Gray Barker's book of Bunk

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Sherwood reported binding significant differences between what Keel wrote at the time of his

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investigation and what he wrote in his first book about the Mothman reports. Raising questions

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about the book's accuracy. Sherwood also reported that Keel who was well known for writing humours

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and outrageous letters to friends and associates would not assist him with clarifying the differences.

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Just to comment on this I think this goes along with my comment about the storytelling

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aspect of a lot of accounts he includes in his book. It is obvious that he's added embellishments

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at the very least. Keel does ask leading questions. It's clear right in his book where he says

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quote finally I asked him if he had ever had any really odd encounters with peculiar strangers.

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And quote. Little bit leading. So those are the criticisms. I'll say I said it in the

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last one. I find the book entertaining. I'm going to reread it. I'm actually just listening

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to the audiobook for the follow up to the Mothman prophecies which is the eighth tower.

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Kinda dry. I'm gonna see if it gets better. One other thing, well a couple other things

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that I feel like need to be covered in this episode with the Mothman and John Keel is

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Mary Hire who frankly I put more faith in. The real reporter who worked with Keel she

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made a lot of appearances through the Mothman prophecies. She is the primary source for documented

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Mothman sightings. And just to give you an idea of who Mary is in the grand scheme of

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things I found a lengthy article about her after her passing. I'm just gonna read it.

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In Athens, Ohio a reporter for the Athens messenger. She was the acting manager at their

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sister office on 6th street in downtown Point Pleasant. Mary Hire had several strange incidences

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relating to the Mothman. Hire is credited with being one of the first reporters to cover

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the Mothman story. During the Mothman and UFO sightings in Point Pleasant, Mary Hire

289
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would often report the strange occurrences in her newspaper column called quote where

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the waters mingle and quote. As a result John Keel and Mary Hire became associated together

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out of mutual interest in the paranormal happenings in Point Pleasant and would later join with

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John Keel to investigate the strange reports coming out of this small town. Mary Hire had

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her own run-ins with the Men in Black UFO sightings and strange happenings and made

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many appearances alongside with John Keel in his book. She was often relentless in her

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endeavors to report the strange phenomenon going on in Point Pleasant. Some believe this

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led to the strange Men in Black paying her regular scheduled visits to her office and

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attempts of putting a stop to her releasing newspaper reports. In January 1967, Hire was

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working late in her office when a short man with odd eyes covered by thick glasses and

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a black mop of hair in the fashion of a bowl cut as Hire and her circulation manager for

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directions to Welsh West Virginia. The man became increasingly more awkward as their

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conversation progressed, leaving mid conversation after stealing a pen and laughing maniacally

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as he exited the faulty. Hire swears that she saw the same man in Athens jump into a

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black van that had appeared seemingly out of nowhere. Later on, she would also hear rumors

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that Men in Black were going to witnesses to get them to stop spreading the mothman tale.

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Hire, still a reporter in Athens, was approached again by a stranger asking her not about the

306
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bridge or the disaster itself, but about the reported UFO sightings that happened shortly

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before the bridge collapsed. This man reportedly visited several witnesses concerning the UFO

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sightings claiming to be from Cambridge, Ohio. However, some witnesses claim this man didn't

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know the location of Columbus, despite the two areas being relatively close in proximity.

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Hire died at 54 years of age and had worked for the Athens messenger for 27 years. She

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was dedicated to her family, her career, her hometown, and to her interest of paranormal

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decorants which are

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That's the case. You can't see the same, like everybody seeing the same entity.

314
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That's true. When there actually wouldn't be encounters where everybody did see the same thing.

315
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Which we've covered in this, in the podcast. Remember that school?

316
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Oh yeah, where they all see.

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Where all the kids like saw the same thing.

318
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So technically, maybe they could only all handle the same thing.

319
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Yeah, but like I just don't foresee.

320
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I don't know.

321
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,440
They're both saying like using as evidence that seeing different things at the same time

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and seeing something consistently as evidence of proof of something.

323
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Which I don't know. Those are contradictory viewpoints in my mind.

324
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You can't hold both.

325
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,440
Yeah, I agree.

326
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Also, I just want to note they just said on eyes and this is from like the 60s.

327
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So I'm wondering like what kind of euphemism that was.

328
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,440
Probably race.

329
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,440
Yeah, I know.

330
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But it's like what race? I don't know.

331
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,440
There is some language used in this book that is not necessary.

332
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I don't know.

333
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,440
It would be borderline races today, I think.

334
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And you just, you don't hear people cite skin color the way that they just so loosey goosey did back then.

335
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And there's a few parts in the book where I feel really awkward.

336
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One of them is when he's talking about the heavy breathing.

337
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Definitely not being masturbated.

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The other is how frequently race comes up.

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So yeah, that's Mary Hire and now we're nearing the end and I'm going to wrap this episode up by reading a few of Mary Hire's newspaper articles from, you know, that place that she worked at Athens.

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Creatures cited in Daylight.

341
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Mason monsters spotted again.

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And Mary Hire.

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Point Pleasant Correspondent.

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Point Pleasant.

345
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The Mason's monster made its Daylight debut on Friday morning, adding Tom Erie, 25 Clarksburg to its list of indoor seats.

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Quote, I never saw anything like it.

347
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I was so frightened I just couldn't go to work today.

348
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This thing had a wingspan every bit of 16, 10 feet.

349
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This is right from the newspaper.

350
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10 feet maybe.

351
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It could be a bird, but I surely never saw one like it.

352
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And quote, the former Point Pleasant resident commented, Oh, he moved right out of Point Pleasant.

353
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Erie cited the creature at 7.15 a.m. Friday while driving toward Clarksburg on Route 62.

354
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When he reached the vicinity of the Homer Smith farm about eight miles north of Point Pleasant, he saw the creature rise up just like a helicopter from a nearby field.

355
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He told Millard Halstead, Chief Deputy Sheriff that the creature hovered over his automobile, traveling at approximately 70 miles an hour.

356
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Then flew toward the Ohio River from a point near Kirkland Memorial Garden near the TNT area near the spot of other sightings.

357
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Quote, I was scared to death this thing would come right through my convertible top.

358
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And quote, Erie said.

359
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Erie was the first person to see the thing during daylight.

360
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The creature was first sighted on November 13 by Mr. and Mrs. Roger Scarberry and Mr. and Mrs. Steve Millett, all of Point Pleasant.

361
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They reported that the creature hovered over their car at speeds of up to 100 miles an hour.

362
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They described the creature as having a man-like body, a 10-foot wingspan and red eyes approximately two inches in diameter and about six inches apart.

363
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Several other Mason County residents have also reported seeing the creature.

364
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A Point Pleasant fireman said today that an out-of-state family reported seeing the creature on Thursday night near Crotal Park Point Pleasant.

365
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The most recent sighting discounts the possibility that the creature is a sandhill crane.

366
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Dr. Robert Smith, biologist at West Virginia University offered the crane theory.

367
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But an Ohio University biologist replied that sandhill cranes have never been known to migrate near this area and they seldom stay long in a single location.

368
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Is the thing really a crane or other large bird?

369
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Is it a creature from outer space?

370
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Is it a resurrected pterodactyl listed in geology text as an extinct flying reptile of the Jurassic period?

371
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Whatever it is, the creature has convinced another friend motorist that it isn't a figment of their imagination.

372
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There's more, but I think this is a good place to leave it at.

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Now, I've consumed a lot of Mothman information during the last little bit in preparation for this episode.

374
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And there's no way I could ever include everything on it.

375
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,440
You got my filter on it and what I found interesting and important.

376
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I listened to podcasts, interviews, documentaries.

377
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,440
I read The Silver Bridge by Gray Barker, which came out prior to Keele's book about the Mothman and Point Pleasant.

378
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I read visitors from Lanylos, which is Woodrow Darenberger's book regarding Indrent Cold and his interactions with the Lanylonians, I guess they would go by.

379
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It's been a lot.

380
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:26,440
I went in not expecting to like Keele and while I didn't necessarily like his writing style, I can get behind the pieces he was trying to put together.

381
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I mean, I wouldn't say who is well, but I can get behind it.

382
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It's the kind of things I like. I would highly recommend the read.

383
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Don't go in with expectations.

384
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I do intend to also read more and I'm going to read it again.

385
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:48,440
The thing about Mothman that I don't get is what was up with this flap?

386
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Like, why was it happening so much and then it just dwindled?

387
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:01,440
And there's still a few sightings here and there around there, but I don't get it.

388
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,440
It just doesn't make sense to me.

389
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,440
And I do have to wonder if the sightings around there are now just due to the lore of the region.

390
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:16,440
Being that like something unexplained you can imagine in your mind, it's the Mothman because it is regionally known.

391
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,440
It's not even just regionally. It's like internationally known for it.

392
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,440
That can't be discounted, but there's still...

393
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:31,440
No, and just coincidentally enough, Keele shows up just in time for like the only flap that ever happens of this thing.

394
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,440
Yeah, I mean, there's other people who witnessed it. It did happen.

395
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,440
Oh yeah.

396
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,440
Mary Hire for one.

397
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,440
Gray Barker wrote a book on it. It happened.

398
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:49,440
But you do have to wonder how much of Keele being there and the work that he did plays a role in how it did end up the way it did.

399
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,440
Probably. I think it has a lot to do with the movie that came out.

400
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:04,440
Probably. I don't know because there's places in the United States that one cryptid sighting is like all they have.

401
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,440
So they have, you know, their little statues there as well.

402
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:15,440
So I mean, yeah, I think that definitely plays into like psychies of people when they're there.

403
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Mothman is still alive and well in Illinois and I just find it super strange.

404
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,440
Mothperson.

405
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,440
Yeah, yeah, right, right.

406
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,440
There is a theory and it's not proven or anything.

407
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:43,440
It's just one that I came across floating around out there in the ethos, which is that it could potentially have been some sort of military experiment type situation.

408
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:55,440
Because during the war there was either in point pleasant or very close some sort of, I don't know if it was like something important that they use during the war.

409
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,440
I don't know if it was weapons or a base of some sort.

410
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,440
But there nonetheless, I'm so sorry.

411
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,440
Like send us an email or comment or something if you know what it was.

412
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,440
But there is something there.

413
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,440
So it is floated out there that it could have potentially been some sort of experiment.

414
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:18,440
It does seem to get linked with the TNT area, which maybe it's like, I don't know.

415
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:28,440
I just the thing that he was bringing me back to try and make sense of is like why, why was it so concentrated for this short period of time?

416
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,440
It doesn't make sense to me.

417
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,440
And yeah, there's UFO flaps and stuff like that.

418
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:34,440
But this seems...

419
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:35,440
But they're consistent.

420
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,440
This is a unique creature.

421
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,440
This is a unique circumstance.

422
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,440
It's different.

423
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,440
And the fact that there's still sightings of Mothman, but he just kind of went away.

424
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,440
What drew him there?

425
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:54,440
And that's why I said in the last episode, I think the collapse of the Silver Bridge just kind of ties it up nicely for people.

426
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,440
I don't think Mothman had anything to do with that.

427
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,440
Yeah, but I think it just in our brain, we need something.

428
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,440
Yeah, and Keele needed something too.

429
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:10,440
It wasn't just Keele, because Graeberg's book is called Silver Bridge.

430
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,440
I know.

431
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:18,440
But at the same time, I'm attributing probably more than I should that Keele's kind of what pushed this to what it is.

432
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,440
Well, yeah, because of the Mothman crop.

433
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,440
And he's the name that you know attached to it.

434
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:23,440
Yeah.

435
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:31,440
So in my mind, the work that he did on this and the fact that he wanted to get a big story out of it is how we ended up with it the way it is.

436
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:40,440
Yeah, I don't I mean, yeah, I guess in the end, like you could only hope that you get a book and then, you know, Richard Gear plays you in a movie.

437
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,440
So I don't know.

438
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,440
And then you leave up your masturbating seats.

439
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,440
Yeah.

440
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,440
You actually had to leave a lot of money on the table for them to not include that.

441
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,440
Yeah, I don't know.

442
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,440
I think a lot of the stuff happened.

443
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,440
I think you have to take some of the stuff he says with a grain of salt.

444
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:04,440
Just because he didn't seem to have any experience going into it with investigating types of things like this.

445
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:10,440
That being said, people had experiences and stuff, but he's connecting the lines in random ways.

446
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,440
And it's a it's a good entertaining read.

447
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,440
I love high strangeness.

448
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,440
So yeah.

449
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,440
Awesome.

450
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,440
Well, Chelsea, thank you for that.

451
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:27,440
And I think this is very rare circumstances where we leave this not necessarily with him being a true UFO.

452
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,440
Community asshole.

453
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,440
Yeah, it's strange, right?

454
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,440
I think this is a different level.

455
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,440
I don't put him to asshole.

456
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,440
I put him to I haven't filed him yet.

457
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:44,440
I almost feel like once we do their episode, Chelsea, I do think he's going to be around where I'm going to put Linda Molton.

458
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,440
I really feel I just get the feels that she's going to come out and asshole.

459
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,440
Yeah, that's fair.

460
00:41:51,440 --> 00:42:01,440
Unfortunately, so I think that it just just feeling it out there and what I've heard of her coming up that I've tried to ignore.

461
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,440
I feel like he's going to come out better.

462
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,440
Okay, well, I guess stay tuned to see.

463
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:11,440
I feel like at the end of one of these years, we have to do a ranking of the assholes that we've done.

464
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,440
Yeah, we do.

465
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,440
Okay, Dodie's at the top.

466
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,440
See, I don't think we do it right now.

467
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,440
Like I said, I think this is an episode that we do at some point.

468
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:19,440
Okay, fine.

469
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:20,440
That's right.

470
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,440
Plus, you got a David Wilcox.

471
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,440
Go watch.

472
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,440
You're always spoiling my fun.

473
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,440
Yeah, David Wilcox live.

474
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,440
He's probably not live anymore.

475
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,440
He goes for four hours at a time.

476
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:32,440
He's still live.

477
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,440
He's still live.

478
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,440
Yeah, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.

479
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,440
We are journey to the fringe.

480
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,440
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.

481
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,440
Bye.

482
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,440
Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe.

483
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:55,440
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484
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:01,440
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485
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,440
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486
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,440
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487
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:15,440
And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible, either way,

488
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,440
please send us an email at journeytothefringeatgmail.com.

489
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:46,440
For now, I'll see you in the next episode.