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OK, Charles, I feel like it's been a while since we've touched base

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on this whole AI phenomenon.

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So Fringe Mini this week, I decided to kind of look at some things going on with AI,

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not necessarily AI itself, if that makes any sense.

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But some of the things going on around it and not necessarily in a bad way,

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just so everybody knows that ahead of time.

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Well, perhaps. Let's see.

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Perhaps. Yes.

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In the end. That's fair enough. OK.

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This article comes from CBC posted on October 29, 2024, written by Mehek Mazar.

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And it is titled Microsoft, Google and Amazon turn to nuclear energy to fuel the AI boom.

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Big tech companies are scrambling to secure nuclear energy deals

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worth billions of dollars in order to meet the growing demands of generative

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artificial intelligence. But critics say they need to rethink that and slow down.

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Well, tech companies have gotten away with the lot just because it's a new area.

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The approach tends to be move fast and break things and start ups and Silicon Valley.

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And so what worries me is that approach transposed to nuclear energy

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because nuclear energy is something that has to involve a lot of care, says Sasha Luchoni,

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AI researcher and climate lead at New York based AI developers, hugging face.

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In September, Microsoft announced their plans to purchase power from the Three Mile Island

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plant in Pennsylvania, where the worst nuclear incident in US history took place in 1979.

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The site shut down its remaining operating unit in 2019, but plans to reopen for this project.

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Last week, Google announced a deal with nuclear startup Kyro's Power buying 500

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megawatts of electricity from seven small modular reactors, SMRs, that have yet to be built.

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And just a few days ago, Amazon struck a similar deal with startup X Energy.

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Small modular reactors are considered safer than traditional nuclear plants due to their

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smaller size and power output. According to the proponents of the technology,

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they're also touted as cheaper and faster to build, which will ideally provide the tech

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companies with a source of renewable energy.

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In Google's case, as early as 2030, companies are racing towards nuclear

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because they are using exponentially more power now due to the upsurge of generative AI use.

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Both Google and Microsoft missed their net zero emissions goals for 2024, a first because

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these companies tend to set goals they can meet according to Luchoni.

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Quote, this year, they're like, Oh, oops, AI caught us by surprise.

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And quote, she said, some see the Microsoft, Google and Amazon investments in nuclear energy

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as a positive step towards reducing big tech emissions.

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Quote, I think all of that is great for the environment.

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And quote, said, Jacopo beyond Giorno, a nuclear science and engineering

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professor and director of MIT's Center for Advanced Nuclear Energy Systems.

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The AI systems are trained on large data sets and program with specific

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rules and algorithms so that each request the identify patterns in order to provide an answer.

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Quote, they're trying to stick that into anything that moves, anything that a customer

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can interact with, and quote, Luchoni said, of the big tech companies.

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Generative AI takes more power to perform than, for example, streaming shows and scrolling

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through your social media feed, says Luchoni, who has research AI's environmental

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costs and is currently developing a rating system for the technology.

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Put another way, one chat GPT query uses as much electricity as a light bulb needs to be on

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for 20 minutes, according to a research cited by NPR.

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Luchoni says companies should be mandated to release how much energy its AI tech uses

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and to allow users to opt out of using it.

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Once there is more information about Generative AI's energy usage, she says the

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government will be able to develop regulations around its use.

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Quote, we should be curbing the demand.

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And quote, she said, instead, as demand rises, tech companies are investing in nuclear energy

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and building more AI data centers, which are the mega warehouses full of servers,

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routers and cooling systems that power AI.

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Quote, there's going to be a couple of years when the demand is going to be

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outstripping any kind of renewable energy supply.

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And quote, Luchoni said, tech companies have been actively looking for renewable energy

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sources to sustain the rapid growth of Generative AI.

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In 2023, Google built a geothermal power project in Nevada to power its nearby data centers.

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And Amazon recently became the world's top corporate buyer of solar and wind energy,

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which I did not know.

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Good for them, I guess.

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There's some random knowledge for you.

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Yeah.

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Part of random people.

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Which is at the end of the day, the whole one of the main reasons we do this podcast.

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Is it really is mostly forest and near the is near the order of cable where you need

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to accost people with your random knowledge and questions.

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That's where you need all the knowledge.

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Obviously we've shot.

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We've fallen short in the past and really need to make up for it.

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Yeah, it's obvious.

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But we're making up one small step at a time, apparently.

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Quote, the use of nuclear reactors is almost like an ideal energy source.

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And that's because nuclear reactors produce electricity 24 seven.

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And quote, beyond Giorno said beyond Giorno believes that it is quite

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realistic for nuclear power to run constantly without carbon emissions.

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He says that the small modular reactors that the companies will be using produce

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less energy than the larger reactors currently on the grid, but are reliable

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enough to power the data centers that perform AI calculations.

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Wind and solar energy comparatively need to be backed up with energy storage

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batteries and that will add to the cost of land usage associated with the power generation.

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Quote, building a new nuclear plant is expensive.

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The good news is that once you have built it and authorized it, then the

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marginal cost of operating and maintenance plus fuel are actually pretty low

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and predictable over decades.

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And quote, as for concerns, I guess I can say beyond Giorno because they didn't

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put it there, but two days, I'm pretty sure.

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As for certain as for concerns about radiation from the SMR as beyond Giorno

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says he has virtually none due to the smaller size and energy output

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that conventional nuclear power plants.

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They also have passive safety systems, according to one proponent of Canada's

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investments into SMRs. Quote, if things go wrong, there's no need for human

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intervention. Things just shut down.

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And so that's probably one of the biggest differences.

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And quote, Romina Velshi, former president and CEO of the Canadian

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Nuclear Safety Commission told CBC's Edmonton AM earlier this month.

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The reactor at Thromel Island is expected to be back up and running by 2028,

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pending approval from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

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Google's deal with Cairo's power projects this first SMR to be ready by 2030,

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whereas Amazon and X Energy are planning for 2039.

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However, the first SMR project in North America is under construction right now,

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operated by Ontario Power Generation at the Darlington plant in Clarington,

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Ontario. It's expected to be the first in North America to go online.

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It is scheduled to become operational by 2029.

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Quote, if the investment is there and the need is there, the demand is there.

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It's absolutely feasible.

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And quote, Bon Giorno said. So that's the article.

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I do have one more thing to add just before we move on and talk about this,

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Chelsea, just because there's another article that's super short and I wanted

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to include it, just because it's somewhat on the same page.

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This one comes from iPhoneincanada.ca,

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which I'm not going to say is a reputable source.

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iPhone in Canada.

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Yes.

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OK.

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Just wanted to make sure.

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This may make it the whole, this may be its only appearance on this podcast.

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And in fact, I'm now realizing.

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Now, I'm realizing now that they also just

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include that this is coming from the Financial Times, but you're regardless.

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We're moving forward.

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This article was written six days ago by

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Uisman Koreshi.

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One article from iPhone.

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It was stolen six days ago.

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Maybe I don't know.

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By Uisman Koreshi, Rare Bees stole Meta's nuclear-powered AI data center plans.

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So Meta's on the same page, ambitious to establish a nuclear-powered AI data center

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in the US, has encountered a significant obstacle due to the discovery of a Rare

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Bees species on the proposed site.

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The Financial Times is reporting and also iPhoneincanada.ca or whatever it is.

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The initiative aimed to partner with an existing nuclear power plant to supply

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emissions-free electricity for a new data center dedicated to artificial

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intelligence operations.

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However, the identification of a Rare Bees species on the land designated for

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construction has introduced environmental complications.

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This setback occurs as other tech giants, including Amazon, Google, and Microsoft,

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have secured agreements with nuclear power operators to meet the escalating

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energy demands of their data centers.

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Despite this challenge, Meta remains committed to exploring carbon-free

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energy solutions, including potential future collaborations evolving nuclear power.

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I think that's far enough for that one.

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I just wanted to include them because that's a good part of the story.

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Maybe the bees get to survive.

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They probably don't because a billionaire is behind this getting built.

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So he probably gets to last day.

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Yes.

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Now we know about iPhoneincanada.com.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm going to have to listen to the last part.

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And sorry, Chelsea.

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What?

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.ca.

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I don't want you going to that other website.

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I don't know what trash is there.

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To finish my thought, I did not listen to that last part because I was too busy

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looking at the news articles on iPhoneincanada.ca.

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I'll have to listen to what I wanted to.

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It does not have different news categories.

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It has Amazon, deals and shop apple.ca.

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Yeah.

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And the category for Tesla.

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Anyhow, it's no good.

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So I'm sad that I missed that.

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All I know is he said something about bees at the end.

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Well, I mean, if we take nothing else from this, Meta may be responsible for nuclear

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bees or radioactive bees in the near future.

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That's probably a good one to see.

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Does that make them stronger?

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Well, usually it makes them cancer riddled.

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So.

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Well, that's not good.

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We need those bees.

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If it made them stronger, perhaps I'd be on board, but it's seemingly, that summary,

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I don't think I like it.

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Does this have anything to do with our chain emails that we're getting and can't delete

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and as well as our old photographs that we can't delete from the cloud?

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Well, I don't think so.

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And I know we talked about that.

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We talked about that a while back in one of the fringee minis that a lot of our just like

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mundane uses of the usage of the interwebs ends up contributing to global warming in

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ways we didn't realize that pales in comparison to the actual power needed for AI, despite

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the fact that nobody really needs AI.

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So why?

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Like is it because AI is thinking?

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Why does it take so much power for AI?

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Because it's a language model and it takes a lot of power to be able to actually come

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up with those sentences.

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Based on all the information that's been fed.

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So it's like thinking and it's like, it's not thinking.

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I cannot stress enough that it is not thinking.

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It's like it needs calories to be able to generate output.

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Sure.

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It's blood for the blood God.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So definitely not alive anymore than a light bulb is alive.

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Yeah.

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And that makes it great that they explained that it uses as much electricity as a light

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bulb.

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I wish they would have specified it for talking about like incandescent bulbs or like the newer

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light bulbs that are pretty energy efficient or I don't know, maybe we're talking about

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a kerosene light bulb for some reason.

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Maybe.

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I don't think they exist, but maybe that's what we're talking about.

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I mean, they could if you really wanted it to, but who wants it to unless you're a ghost

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on a lake.

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Yeah, that's fair.

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Anyhow, the reason I really wanted to like bring this to our attention is because it

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is in the AI realm and it is interesting that we're going back into nuclear power and I

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don't have a problem with nuclear power per se.

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Like in itself, there's no real issues with it that can't be offset.

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However, the problem I always have and it comes back to our entire capitalistic model

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that everything needs to be run for a profit.

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And I just don't trust nuclear power being run for profit.

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Yes.

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Because that can be a reason.

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Yeah.

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We all know.

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And I find it particularly apt that they're in fact going to be using Three Mile Island

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for Google Energy.

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Yeah, that's the whole sentence in itself seems wrong.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I guess of all the energies, that one's one of the, I don't want to say the wrong thing,

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greenest.

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Compared to...

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Kind of.

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It's quasi-green in that it isn't renewable exactly, but it's sustainable over an extremely

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long time period.

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And who knows how long we're going to be here for that because as covered in the article,

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we are slowly destroying the environment.

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Yeah, but we'll have nuclear bees.

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So it could be...

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That could be good.

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It could be cancer riddled.

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We don't know.

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It sounds like they're weaponizing bees.

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It's only a matter of time.

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It really was a matter of time.

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And frankly, we don't even have a Beeman comic book as far as I know.

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Beeman.

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And now I'm kind of stuck on what the superpowers would be and what the Archangel is.

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What the Nemesis would be, but you guys got 48 hours to think this stuff up.

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Send it to us.

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We got an email.

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You guys don't use it, but we got it.

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Anyhow, bye.