From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe.
Over in minutes, I was shopping earlier today and I saw a slogan like that on rice and I
thought it might be a good phrase to say in a podcast.
It turns out it doesn't trade mediums that well to this.
Anyhow, we do measure this in time, whatever it is we are doing, so no matter how long
it takes, it can be measured in minutes and be over in that time.
We are your podcast hosts who probably aren't the best at phrasing things like that, but
anyhow we're here and we're what you got.
Taylor and Chelsea here today.
I think this is somewhat a part three of Dr. Greer, but not really, but I'll let Chelsea
take it over from here.
That's me.
What better way to follow up the rear of Steven Greer than the Atacama Skeleton.
Ada for short.
Yep, I'm really proud of that poem by the way.
It actually took a lot of restraint on my end to not put any rhymes in the Steven Greer
episode.
It's a good rhyming name.
Well then, you could have done the whole podcast of rhymes, so now I'm pissed.
It could have just been a limerick.
You could have just wrapped it.
Not enough people do podcast limerick forms.
Yeah, no, that is totally true.
So we're talking about Ada, the Atacama Skeleton.
Who is Ada and how does he relate to Steven Greer because he's following up his rear?
In 2003, the skeleton was removed from the Atacama Desert in Northern Chile.
And Taylor, feel free to jump in at any time.
You may have consumed more Ada material than I have in all your journey.
No, funny enough, it's just the one documentary that Steven Greer did and then mysteriously,
he doesn't talk about it much anymore.
That's why.
So we watched that documentary together and I don't recall him giving a backstory on
Ada and I'm kind of jumping around a lot here, but it'll take its shape pretty soon.
I have faith.
He never really gave a true background story of Ada and it's also really hard to find
an actual background story of Ada.
And when you first see Ada, it does not look real in any way.
Maybe I should start by describing it.
So he or she is found in the Atacama Desert in Northern Chile and is originally buried
in the ghost town of La Noria.
It's strikingly small.
It measures just six inches or 15 centimeters.
So that's about as long as like a freshly sharpened brand new pencil, just to put it
into perspective.
Slightly longer than a six inch sub from Subway because they were sued for not being their
length.
So there you go.
Okay, I get what you're saying.
It is desiccated, but it's a completely intact skeleton.
The top of the skull has a distinct conical shape.
So it is, you were to say conical and like regular English.
It's like almost like a cone head kind of.
And it see I'm more so think of it like this is the gull of what I would think a gray aliens
head would have in it.
You think?
A little bit.
But it's got more like evil face.
Yeah, it does.
It does look evil for sure.
I think cone head, but maybe you're right.
No, you know what?
The professor in Nightmare Before Christmas.
It's his head.
Oh yeah.
Okay, I can get behind that.
Yeah.
It also has 10 ribs.
Normal humans have 12 on each side.
Four ribs and the skeleton only has 10.
Cat scan reveals internal chest organs, lungs and what appears to be the remains of a heart
structure.
And just to be clear, this is an actual organism.
It has DNA that was tested and it does come back as organic and it's not a hoax or anything.
So what they find is an organic being.
Many UFO enthusiasts around the globe assumed this was the body of a tiny little alien just
based on the looks of it.
It does look really weird.
Other onlookers suggest the bones might have come from a non-human primate.
In any event, the specimen soon becomes world famous.
And I just bring up too that Steven Greer brings it up in his documentary, which is outside
of the Atacama Alien, Eric Skeleton exclusively about aliens.
He kind of doesn't acknowledge even like publicly that he thinks it's an alien as far
as I can tell.
And if you take steps to really say that later on.
Yes.
And I will go through that.
So Lenoria where they find it actually is an abandoned mining town and you can't really
go there anymore because it's absolutely abandoned unless you are, you know, have four by four
ability to get there.
And because it was a mining town, the water sources around there did have arsenic in them,
which will tie in in a little bit.
Maybe that wasn't the best place to bring it up, but this is where it sits.
So at a surfaces in 2003 falling into the possession of a treasure hunter named Oscar
Mignoz initially discovered in the Atacama Desert, obviously it's a nitrate mining town.
That's what they were mining.
I did not know we'd mind that.
Yeah, it had to do with around the wars.
And then they found a way to synthesize it easier.
I was listening to a podcast about it earlier.
So most accounts say he dug up the body at a Lenorian burial site, although a few sources
claim it was discovered lying on a shelf inside of one of the town's deserted buildings.
So a couple of different stories there.
Somewhere down the line, the Atacama skeleton was sold to Ramon Navia Asorio, a Spanish
Barcelona actually business owner and private collector.
He's also the president of the Institute for Research and Exobiological Studies, a prominent
UFO organization.
Navia Asorio later cross paths with longtime ufologist Stephen M. Greer at a 2009 conference.
Greer got permission to take a bone marrow sample from Atas body.
Okay, so was this guy into aliens?
Like why did he end up at a Stephen Greer thing?
Yes, he was.
So he was something you just kind of stumbled.
So he was the president for the Institute of Research and Exobiological Studies, which
is a prominent UFO organization.
So that's kind of where he would have crossed paths with Stephen M. Greer.
Well, why?
He's in Spain, right?
Yeah.
Okay, so he must have thought Stephen Greer was an important person.
Yeah, exactly.
So plan was to have the material from Atas body examined for Sirius, which is the documentary
we were talking about.
Then a microbiologist got in touch with Greer, Stanford University School of Medicine Professor
Gary Nolan caught wind of the upcoming film.
He became intrigued by a promotional photo showing Atas body.
I wonder how much Atta would have cost.
I wonder that too.
This guy sounds like he just straight up had a lot of money and was like, yep, I want it.
I mean, I can't say that I would see something like that and want to buy it.
I just don't have the money for it.
Oh, if I saw it, I would immediately say this is fake.
Why are you trying to sell this?
I know, right?
This guy probably had his yacht sunk by Orcas off the coast of Portugal.
Actually, yeah, we should follow up.
Yeah.
See how his yachts doing.
It's also it's weird that like all the bones are all together.
Like bones don't naturally stay together like that.
Oh, I should say that it is mummified and that is just okay.
So yeah, it's not just you can see the bones, but they're not like the actual upset layer.
Okay.
It's going to be one of those episodes where I just slowly leak the information to you
that you should have the bodies.
As you remember, we're supposed to know.
You should know this.
And that's just purely due to the desert like conditions that it was its home.
I don't know how to.
Yeah, it jerky thighs jerky bodies.
That was it.
Because it's super salty and dry.
So the conditions are right to mummify it and it mummified with all its organs inside
of it.
So that's why it looks like that.
It's not like decay or anything.
It's definitely mummified.
That was a huge part of the puzzle.
So I apologize for putting this in here.
So the public got a sneak preview of Nolan's research in 2013 when Science Magazine ran
an article about his team's preliminary findings.
Quote, the DNA was modern, abundant and high quality.
And quote, he explained at the time, Nolan went on to say that he and his co-authors
had revealed the Atacama skeleton, quote, is human and there's no doubt about it, quote,
and quote, and quote again, I think, because there's a lot of quotes in there.
Much anticipated study was finally published March 22, 2018 in the journal Genome Research.
Genomes are the unique genetic codes possessed by all organisms.
Using Greer's marrow sample, Nolan and his colleagues were able to carry out detailed
whole genome analysis of the Atacama skeleton.
When they compared Adda's genetic info to that of various primate species like the chimpanzee,
macaque, and of course, homo sapiens, it became clear that the specimen is human.
A close look at the chromosomes revealed she is a human female, a fetus who probably died
in the womb.
But hold on, how can we explain Adda's eye-catching physique, which is a lot of what Stephen Greer
points at when he says, I mean, let's face it, he is alluding that it's extraterrestrial.
It would be incredibly weird if being the only thing in a documentary about aliens,
for him to not be saying it's an alien.
Totally.
Evidence of several genetic mutations were present in the study, and these would theoretically
account for Adda's ribcage and cone shaped head.
Nolan's team also stated that her bones could have aged prematurely due to yet another
mutation.
Given the size of the specimen and the severity of the mutations, it seems likely the specimen
was a preterm birth, wrote the scientists in their 2018 genome research paper.
Quote, DNA analysis on the premature human fetus identified unusual mutations associated
with dwarfism and scoliosis, although other research contested genetic abnormalities, finding
that the skeleton showed normal fetal development.
There is unfounded speculation by people such as UFO theorist Stephen M. Greer that Adda
is an extraterrestrial.
Such speculation led to Adda's inclusion in the 2013 UFO film Serious and captured
the attention of Stanford University, we already knew Gary P. Nolan, and tea analyze those
remains, I don't need to say that to you again, you're all following me I'm pretty
sure.
So initially, thought to be older, the fetal remains had been dated to as recently as the
late 1970s and have been found to contain high quality DNA.
Suitable for scientific analysis, the remains have an irregularly shaped skull and a total
of 10 ribs as opposed to 12 for adult humans, the potential signs of oxifcephaly.
It is also noted that the frontal suture of the skull is very open and the hands and feet
not fully ossified.
Anatomous and paleoanthropologist William Hungers has suggested that it was a human fetus that
was born prematurely and died before or shortly after birth.
An alternative hypothesis by Nolan is that Adda had a combination of genetic disorders
that led to the fetus being aborted before term and pediatric radiologist Ralph Lochman
has said that dwarfism alone could not account for all the features found in the fetus.
So big debate, during the DNA analysis by Nolan, the B2MT DNA haplotype group was found
in the remains.
Haplogroups identify human genetic populations that often are associated distinctly with
particular geographic regions around the globe.
Combined with the alleles found in the mitochondrial DNA contained in the remains, the findings
suggested that Adda is indigenous to the western region of South America.
In March 2018, Nolan published additional results stating that the fetus had a rare bone
aging disorder as well as other genetic mutations in genes associated with dwarfism, scoliosis
and abnormalities in the muscle and skeleton.
The researchers identified 64 unusual mutations in 7 genes linked to the skeletal system and
they noted that finding so many mutations that specifically affect skeletal development
has never been reported before.
So there's this whole debate between what's normal and what's not.
Please Stephen Greer is pointing to the fact that a lot is not normal and we're going to
get into it a little bit more when I talk about Stephen Greer involved with this.
Also another reason why I mentioned the arsenic as a byproduct of whatever they were mining
up there which would cause a lot of fetal abnormalities should somebody be drinking that arsenic water
which was probably everyone hence why it's no longer a inhabited town.
So that's much of the debate going back and forth between Stephen Greer and his posse
and the scientists saying that it is a human with multiple genetic mutations present.
I also really wish Stephen Greer would actually take a position other than just saying that's
weird.
Yeah we're actually going to go through his statement in full and not that long here.
So we're going to see exactly his position.
I just thought that I would follow up the rear on that one with you know there is a very
differing part of this.
They're saying it's mutations and a fetus that obviously.
By that you mean scientists who did DNA testing on it.
Yeah that's what they're saying Stephen Greer does say something else which is important
but not present here so I just ad lib that for you guys so you'll see you'll see it's
all here.
So everything for a reason in my episode of course it's not an order but we're going
to get there it's like a puzzle we're all here together having fun.
Ada is very controversial and Skeleton is on the young side she's got well preserved
DNA and based on our knowledge of how fast DNA breaks down over time it's safe to say
that Ada is under 500 years old as I said they're thinking she's within 40 years old.
Oh man Ada should be going through her midlife crisis right now.
There's a decent chance that one or both of her parents are still around today.
There's a lot of ethical questions around data that is brought up within the scientific
community because of what's going on with her.
We imagine how either one of the parents might feel if they lived to see their child's body
snatch sold and then labelled as a humanoid by UFO gurus.
One also has to wonder about how they'd react to scientists drawing international attention
to what was for all we know a private family tragedy.
The 2018 genome research paper faced a swift public outcry less than a week after the
document was published the Chilean Society of Biological Anthropology and the Chilean
Association of Archaeologists both issued statements calling the study unethical.
Under Chilean law it is illegal to quote carry out archaeological anthropological or paleontological.
Help me out how do you say that?
I have no idea what words you're trying to say paleontological.
Yeah there you go, excavations, end quote, without first getting authorization from the
country's Council of National Monument.
That probably didn't happen and at his case it most definitely did not as it was just
straight up sold to a collector.
But to be fair that list did not include treasure hunting.
Yeah, it's true it didn't.
Which is how he technically got it in the first place.
It's true.
Norbert and he Chilean researchers evolved in the genome research study which became
another bone of legal contention.
Wow that was not a nice pun.
Especially when they're talking in the ethical section.
Some of the studies biological claims were criticized too.
A follow-up paper published in August 2018 in the International Journal of Paleo-Pathology
chases some hard science words in this.
That add a striking appearance could have very little to do with genetic mutations.
Instead parts of her skeleton might have been disordered or flat out lost during her birth
mummification or burial.
Getting back to Nolan, he and one of his co-authors, a tool-bute of the University of San Francisco
later penned a statement defending their research, noting that nobody on their team physically
touched or even saw the actual skeleton.
The two expressed their desire for Adda to be repatriated and accorded proper respect
as human remains.
I guess in the end it was Steven Kerr that caught all the stamp.
We'll hear from him about the samples soon.
Genetic mutations identified in Adda's DNA could account for her distinct physical traits
such as her small stature, conical skull shape, and reduced number of ribs, suggesting a rare
possibly unknown condition.
A subsequent study published in September 2018 by an international research team led
by New Zealand's University of Otago, associate professor of bio-archeological C.N.
Halcro, questioned the March 2018 study by Nolan stating, quote, as experts in human
anatomy and skeletal development, we find no evidence for any of the skeletal anomalies
claimed by the authors.
Their observations of anomalies represent normal skeletal development in a fetus, cranial
molding from delivery and potential post-mortem tiphonomic effects, and that the team was
skeptical concerning the genomic results.
Authors also raised ethical concerns about the work by Nolan, saying that studies such
as these that do not address ethical considerations of the deceased and their descendant communities
threatened to undo the decades of work anthropologists and others have put in to correct past colonialist
tendencies, end quote.
The publishers of the early study, Genome Research, responded by stating that the ethical
standards did not cover work on, quote, specimens of uncertain biological origins, such as the
Atacama Skeleton, end quote, but also stated their intention to review their own policies
on such studies.
The authors of the Genome Research article published a response acknowledging the ethical
concerns and calling for the repatriation of the remains.
They distanced themselves from possible ethical missteps by largely claiming ignorance about
the handling of the remains and the circumstances of the discovery and nothing that they were
presented with roughly a cubic millimeter of bone to analyze.
Okay, so here's the part we've all been waiting for.
Let's talk about Steven Greer.
First off, I find Steven Greer to be very hard pressed to give any background information
on adult, like I said at the beginning of the episode.
He'll say it came from the Atacama Desert.
That's pretty much it.
Fair, that's fully within how he's worked this entire time is I can't tell you much
about anything in the past.
I can give you a vague idea sometimes.
That's totally true.
But if it's important, no, we'll touch it.
That's top secret.
We'll touch it at all.
He talks about Atta in detail on one of his stupid documentaries, which is serious.
What I find hilarious about it.
And sorry, I think we should mention serious as in the Star Serious, S-I-R-I-U-S.
Not serious as in like this is serious stuff.
Yeah.
Again, it would be weird to not think it's an alien if you're putting a skeleton that
you're biopsying and studying in a show called Serious about another star.
What I find hilarious about it is that Greer and this other guy are super excited about
the skeleton and they have someone do an analysis of it that does not appear on camera, which
is Nolan, I believe.
Now I want you to listen for yourself to my favorite part of it.
Yeah.
Hold on, we're going to add.
So one of the first things that Dr. Lachman immediately remarked upon was the shape of
the head and the skull.
That it was not something that he is accustomed to seeing.
Certain aspects of the skull and certain aspects of the potential mutations and syndromes
that might account for the specimen were present.
But what was remarkable, at least in my discussions with him, that any given syndrome often has
co-phenotypes or co-events that would occur.
It was quite interesting in some ways, exciting, as he would remark upon a particular feature
of the specimen and then find that the associated features that you would expect from a syndrome
of that nature were not found.
What you also see is that he says it has 10 ribs.
That was it.
Okay.
And maybe you missed it.
I just really like that they are even like at that point establishing it in its human.
It just has a lot of abnormalities, which they find weird.
But like, here's the thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, it's weird.
It's like an alien documentary.
So I don't know if you caught it.
They say it very like they continue talking.
But the guy literally says, quote, say certain aspects of the potential mutations and syndromes
that might account for the specimen present.
Yeah.
I know.
That's what I was saying.
They're like, yeah, these are rare mutations.
That's great.
It's a human.
All of the things that would account for it are there.
Yes.
They are.
So on Greer's website, he has a document out of Kama humanoid still a mystery.
Danford University research by Stephen M Greer, April 22, 2013.
And I want to find it because I thought that I had it linked here.
I did not.
I'm going to find it.
We're just going to go through it.
I swear to God I had a link in here.
Where the fuck is this?
It's so nice to meet this document.
It's a freaking mess.
Okay.
Where are you?
It's the one you sent me.
I can see if I can find it.
I'm looking for it too.
Okay.
I really thought it was right on the landing page.
I go on a cruise.
You're looking for the document I sent you, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Because he does have a whole like write up on the thing on his web page, but this is
not what you're looking for.
Oh, I want the document.
Why can't I search his web page?
Evidence and docs.
Oh, it might be in here.
He misgenders it in his web page.
I know.
Gulls of a he throughout.
I know.
Over here.
It is open.
Okay.
I hope this is it.
I'm pretty sure this is it.
So it starts out May 14, 2018.
Steven M. Grer MD, serious technology, advanced research, LLC.
We all know how to feel about that.
Two.
All these people I don't care.
Atacama skeleton.
This is clearly an email.
I've become aware of the recent publication in genome research of a study on the Atacama
skeleton that has now received worldwide media attention.
This is the one I was telling you about that says it was human for the record.
Neither I nor anyone on my team have ever claimed that Atacama skeleton was alien, but
only highly unusual and needed competent scientific investigation.
Alas, the study recently published in the genome research makes a mockery of science.
Can we just stop right there and acknowledge his tacit statement that he is not capable
of that research?
Yes, we can acknowledge that.
We can bask in.
I think that's pretty great that he's saying somebody competent.
Yes, somebody competent, let's do it.
So, he goes on.
You should note that as principal investigator, and quotes PI, on this case that I was neither
consulted nor given an opportunity to review Gary Nolan's et al findings prior to publication.
This is unfortunate, as any qualified PhD would have found the paper deeply flawed and
incompetent.
Have looked into this paper and have concluded it is junk science at its worst.
Who have written comments after studying the data?
No, Chelsea, can we just ponder the statement junk science at its worst?
Does that swing the pendulum back to competent again?
If it's bad junk science?
Yeah, a double negative.
A bad bad guy might be a good guy.
You're right.
Back it good.
This is good science.
It's a great science.
It's bad junk science.
It's good science.
Have concerned that?
Have spent tens of thousands of dollars obtaining the sample at our expense.
Danford UCSF and genome research journal have published a false defaming and inaccurate
paper that does not substantiate harm to the cause of science and to me personally.
I just in picturing him like he was defamed by this.
You read it.
I've been with one finger so fast.
You think just like you would get like 10 taps and then you just get a heavy sigh and
then like eight more taps and then a heavy sigh and then the pace.
Yeah, I can't see how he would be defamed by this.
And then he comes back and he flips the chair around and has to go back.
In the end it probably got him more exposure than he regularly has.
In my opinion.
Aside from the legal and ethical questions of such a paper being published and garnishing
worldwide media coverage without my knowledge or advice, there is the damage to the underlying
purpose to discover what the Atigama skeleton is.
Oh man.
It goes on.
Oh I know I saw it.
Oh we're reading all of this.
I need to look at this document with you.
I wasn't going to and then I actually looked at it and we have to.
The bone samples provided were done so with assurances from Nolan that a thorough and
objective study would be made.
However, all of the PhD geneticists that have delved into his data and methodology assure
me it was done at best incompetently and at worst, and this is their belief, fraudulently,
lack of controls, the methods used and so forth were so blatantly incompetent that they're
only conclusion is that the study was corrupted from the beginning to obtain a predetermined
conclusion.
This is not science.
It is politics or something else.
He has a lot of big stuff.
This is trying to think of one more example of what it could be.
Oh at that point, at that point there was a heavy sigh of pace and he's like you know
what screw it.
I'm going to put something else and move on.
I'm furious.
I really like that he couldn't name the PhD friends that he had talked to who said this
was junk science.
That wouldn't help my case at all saying who specifically stated that this was bad.
Oh no you couldn't do that.
You can't do that.
You're just too mad.
Friend.
It's a stream of consciousness thing.
No, he's a friend.
Yeah, he's too enraged.
It's a friend of a friend.
God damn it.
Finally the study had no controls.
It was not a reference free DNA study.
Data was cherry picked and key data left out.
Example, 360,000 triploid alleles and was done with antiquated technology and methodology.
I've been assured that any competent peer review process would have given the paper
a zero score and returned it.
This has been peer reviewed, correct?
Like I think we mentioned that.
Yeah.
Is that what peers do is market?
Yeah, they give you a zero or a higher score than a zero I assume.
The assertion that the skeleton is a deformed fetus, allegedly female, which is why he says
that on his website, is unfounded by the data and the clinical medical findings.
See Dr. Lockman's report attached that there were seven de novo mutations resulting in the
scene biological specimen is spurious and without scientific foundation.
Others have included that had there been such widespread genetic damage that the embryo
would never have been able to divide and develop further.
It died in the womb.
Like yeah, it seems it got slightly further than he just had, but it died in the womb.
To me, that's what makes the most sense.
Two PhD scientists with deep knowledge and expertise in DNA sequencing have assured
me the study was faked from the very beginning and that the report could not have been properly
peer reviewed.
Assured.
That's an interesting way to put that.
Assured.
That's an interesting way to put that.
Assured.
And I say that.
I'll just put it here.
Assured.
That's what he did.
Okay, I can totally see that.
I am an MD and not a PhD geneticist, so he's incompetent as an editor.
He cannot do it. He's not confident.
But he can clearly spot the issues of somebody who actually knows what they're doing doing
it.
He knows it. Yeah, it was done wrong.
Mostly because they didn't...
Not a page.
I just want to put this in here. He's mad that they didn't run it by him first, despite
the fact that he fully acknowledges he has no expertise in this area.
Okay, just wait. When we get to the end, he has it all in bullet form when he's unhappy.
He just... Oh man, he got so fuming, he just couldn't even form structure anymore.
I am not a PhD geneticist, however, I can attest that even the statement that we told
Nolan the specimen was thousands of years old is false.
Clinically and archaeologically, we knew it was from early in the 20th century or the
late 19th century.
This was reported to Nolan specifically. He asserted it is 40 years old, although there
is no evidence for this either.
But the strata of ruins in which the skeleton was found is from the late 1900s, 1930 or
so.
So I'm pretty sure in the documentary he mentioned it several times that it's... it could be
hundreds of years old, correct?
Yeah.
And he's even saying, I agree with what he found that it was in the 1900s and then he
shits all over him again.
There were also studies showing the specimen was around 6 years of age, a finding nullified
by the fanciful idea that it prematurely aged in utero, in brackets progeria.
Nolan's own research assistant found a similar creature from 1996 in Russia.
See attached email and Russian photos also found in an area of alleged UFO events.
Nolan asserted to me that if there were two of these unusual creatures that the likelihood
the attic hamam one was a deformed human was nil.
Why?
Nolan was fully aware of these clinical and historical facts prior to completing this
study and report.
I don't know why.
Why?
Doesn't say why.
Yeah.
Can't say why.
He was fully aware that...
Otherwise the why would be in there.
I really feel like you should explain yourself if you're saying that like, oh, finding another
one shows it can't be an abnormality, but does that not add to the likelihood that it's
a genetic abnormality that can exist out there?
Well in his mind it must add to the fact that it's an alien.
But he's also said he knew it wasn't an alien right at the beginning of it.
Yeah, he's true to it.
And he's started this off saying I knew it wasn't an alien and also I am not an expert
in this subject matter and you should not take me seriously.
But...
We need some more confidence to do this.
It has also come to my attention that Nolan received a $3.2 Department of Defense teal
award approximately...
Did you say $3.2 or $3.2 million?
Well it just says $3.2 with a dollar sign, Department of Defense teal award.
There's no million or anything.
Approximately one month after I provided the DNA samples to him on October 2012, C-Attach.
This document is really just like a gold mine.
I first opened it up and I was like this is bullshit I'm not even reading this.
And then I read a little bit to see what he had to say and I was like holy shit this is
a gold mine of amazing bits.
Oh yeah I was in the middle of this.
It was separate people, the director of the film Sirius and a member of my team who met
privately with Tristan Harris, I don't know who that is, have stated that Nolan was induced
to say the specimen was a deformed human by federal agents or someone connected to the
US government and that is why he reached the spurious scientific conclusion.
Scientific was enclosed by the way.
If true, if is capitalized.
If true, this constitutes fraud and scientific corruption at its worst.
We need a full state, federal and academic investigation into this case to determine
how this study came to these conclusions whether fraud was committed if federal or state funds
were used and why the study published in an obscure journal gained such media attention.
Something tells me he's going to be hard pressed to do that.
Recently Nolan has become associated with a group called To The Stars Academy.
Headed up by a former rock star, this group C attached article is packed with former in
brackets question mark current and quote Pentagon and CIA operatives well known for running
scams on the US government and American people.
See email for senior CIA official written to me attached.
Was it this group or there is assets that arrange for global media coverage of Nolan's
findings.
I'd just like to point out at this time that he is working with Richard Doty, Steven Greer
by the way, just in case we weren't clear and David Wilcock.
I mean, Doty has the bigger implications.
David Wilcock just asked.
Oh yeah, that's fair.
All of these issues need a full and a partial investigation by academic conduct committees
and offices that handle legal and ethical problems.
Sorry, I'm laughing because he really does hate to the stars.
He really wants to get him.
I ask that here are his demands.
Number one, you provide me with the peer review comments from the genome research related
to Nolan's paper.
You return to me any unused DNA materials from the specimen that I provided to Nolan.
Three, compensate me for the cost involved in obtaining the sample in the damage to my
reputation, travel time and damage to my intellectual property in brackets serious and others and
bracket to be determined by arbitration or other means if necessary.
Wouldn't you have to go to court for arbitration?
No courts a different avenue.
But it's very easy to actually file a complaint, an ethics complaint with the university, which
I was trying to look up.
See if he did it.
Like he wants to apparently he sued Fox.
I'm just learning this now.
He would put it in this fucking report if you wanted to.
But I just learned this.
Is everything else is fucking in here.
He sued Fox News in 2020.
What?
Stephen Greer sued Fox News in 2020.
I just learned this because I was trying to find if he filed an ethics complaint with
the university.
I don't know what to do with that information.
It might be a follow up.
Next one launch a full I lost count.
I was numbering these by the way he has them bullet point launch a full and impartial investigation
headed by competent scientists knowledgeable in sequencing DNA from ancient or old samples
to document where the scientific method broke down.
Next launch a full and partial investigation to determine if there was a corruption by
financial interest governmental and national security interests and the media.
Next a full report on who funded the Nolan study and if any state or federal funds personal
equipment etc were involved.
I should also note that two renowned PhD genetic experts have spoken to me and stated emphatically
that they offered their help to Nolan to do the study properly and that he refused their
assistance.
One of these scientists at the time headed up a company that did state of the art reference
free DNA sequencing offered his company services to Nolan.
He refused.
Sorry.
I am at a loss there.
People contacted him and said hey you're probably going to screw this up.
Can we help Nolan?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then they put the person's name in there who offered their help which again he hates
details.
That's his friend.
Yeah.
But also he's saying hey your university probably has shit equipment come use our company's
equipment for what I'm assuming isn't just going to be out of the goodness of his heart.
And he probably didn't even say his name.
He was probably like hey I'm Stephen Gruse friend.
Yeah.
Want to come use my equipment.
I told him a name.
I'm just a friend.
Which you would be right to decline.
Both of these scientists have assured me that the study must have been corrupted from the
beginning.
Sense and competence at this level from Stanford and UCSF is simply not plausible.
I do not know.
We must get to the bottom of what happened.
How and why.
Ultimately we need to address what exactly is the Atacoma skeleton.
That was such weird grammar in that sentence.
This Nolan study muddies the water and brings no scientific clarity to the question.
So we are back where we started when I first saw the specimen in 2009.
Unfortunately it is unlikely we will obtain another sample of the bone marrow DNA since
Nolan's behavior has so disgusted the owner of the specimen.
He wishes no further involvement.
Isn't that convenient.
Who can blame him.
This Yasko has damaged my relationship with this person and others.
He's such a witty irreparably.
You blew your one and only chance.
You can't screw up any more than that.
So bad that he won't even give more DNA to prove that he was wrong.
If this skeleton represents a here to for unknown species.
I'm here to for.
He could really just said previously but he's in that kind of mood.
Yep he is.
We have lost a great deal to the advancement of science.
We lost our we could have had so many chances but you just did it so bad that was it.
We did it good it would have been unlimited chances.
I don't think I don't think unlimited.
See the skeletons only six inches.
But more than one.
See the owner of the skeleton is too pissed too.
We lost our only chance.
Okay never mind it was the only chance based on that.
Your review.
These are all emails too.
They're not even just peer reviews.
They're emails.
Okay where's the next thing I wanted to discuss with you.
Dr. Lachman's letter and full report.
Here's Dr. Nolan's report.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to examine the radiographic images of the specimen.
I've examined in the course of my career many skeleton and other pediatric bone anomalies
and dysmorphias especially in the field of skeletal dysplasias and syndromes.
The specimen does not fall under any known to me class of disorders or syndromes as
I told you during our last meeting when I formally went over the images in preparation
for the formal report.
There's no known form of dwarfism and that accounts for all the anomalies seen in the
specimen.
Most interestingly based on knee epiphyseal standards the specimen appears to be six to
eight years of age.
While there remains a possibility this latter result is due to some form of unknown criteria.
The aging syndrome in my opinion this is a low probability.
This is the one that is on the documentary.
Yeah.
So this is where Stephen Greer gets that it's like a six to eight year old.
Yeah and crazy how studying it in a different way might give you a different conclusion.
Yeah so this is what we see they're looking at this document on the documentary clip where
it says definitely all the things that could be wrong with it are there as far as abnormalities.
So it just goes through like basically physically what it looks like thorax 10 ribs narrow thorax
with otherwise normal ribs elongated clavicles blah blah.
Email to Dr. Nolan.
Oh no it's not an angry email it's just about the Russian.
Oh what does it say it's about the Russian skeleton.
Begin forwarded message from Gary Nolan April 10 to Stephen Greer subject a very similar
specimen below.
I don't even know why these emails are in here from Aaron Simmons to Gary Nolan subject
read there's no subject on this one.
I just says nice the adjicam is specimen looks a bit like Alexis of kitsch Tim discovered
in 1996.
Here's the most informative account on Alexis that I found thought the English is poor.
It's a link.
The video at the end is a highlight.
I wonder if you'll get the opportunity to do deep sequencing on Alexis if this is due
to a rare mutation then having a second sample might reveal it.
Yes.
And I'm reading this because he includes some really weird things like this like just afforded
email.
Oh here's the you know how we said the senior CIA is acknowledgement that the stars are
okay.
Oh yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
It says sent from my iPhone.
Again forwarded message from he took out the email.
Of course.
Date December 31 to Steve Greer regarding subject with no alien DNA.
Hi Steve.
Glad to hear all is fine.
I have watched that rat pack run scams against the US government.
Looney billionaires and now average citizens keep up the good work.
That's literally that's how he knows.
That's it.
Well that's how you know.
Then he has a whole thing in this document to the Scars Academy team and this is basically
what we went through when we did the two to stars episode.
So it just lists all the people into the stars and like where they come from and what their
title is within.
He just has this in this document which is just fricking weird and that's the document.
This is what he has on his web page that's easily accessible to everybody on.
Isn't that a weird document?
And he's just throwing to the stars under because Nolan's a part of them.
I don't know.
I just that's why I had to go through it.
I was just like what the fuck was that?
Oh man that's great.
And I think a pretty good example that our listeners can see of don't send an email when
you're angry.
Sit on it for at least a day.
At least save it as a draft and go back and edit it.
Yeah that's what I thought I would end up on.
Add as a really strange little alien being.
Widely not discredited because it is something.
It is agreed on that it is weird.
I think I don't think there's anybody who says yep just a normal fetus.
Yeah but I mean not everybody stumbles on to what is probably a miscarried fetus every
day and is looking at it in the eyes of I've found an alien being.
That also Chilly has asked for it to be returned.
Yes it said that it would.
Yeah and you're Stephen Inker is saying he lost his one and only DNA sample because one
never gets a chance to look at it again because it was so incompetently looked at.
Giving us all a new answer to what's the worst that could happen.
Yeah what is the worst that could happen.
Apparently what happened to Stephen Inker is the worst case scenario.
But yeah it's a funny story.
Ada.
Quite sad in the end if you look at it from the eyes of you know the Chilean government
trying to get it back because of how ethics were not followed very well given it.
But yeah kind of fuzzy.
Nobody really knows where it came from.
We know where it is right now.
And yeah then you just leave it with Stephen Greer.
And this is where I think that he's the only person pushing any narrative with it anymore.
And he doesn't talk about it that much anymore either.
It's more so it's just like I think it builds his rage.
And actually it gives some context of why he's calling to the stars out.
More than there was.
Yeah a little bit.
I quite enjoyed that that was in there.
And his fricking evidence of it with this one liner email where you don't even put
a name in it.
Like oh my god.
Oh no it would be weirder if he actually put a name in it Chelsea.
Yeah.
And I actually think.
I'm surprised that he puts that email in but he didn't put any of the emails saying well
maybe it was in the peer review.
Maybe those were his friends because I didn't actually read those with you.
But peer review I say that with air quotes around it.
But I was going to say oh the things where people were saying that it was so incompetently
done was not in there.
Maybe I just skipped over it though.
Yeah I was actually hoping.
The weirdest answer I think could have actually happened was when they were running those original
genetic tests and they started talking about the monkeys.
Even if it turned out it was a chimpanzee in the middle of Chile from the 70s.
But I could see him still being so focused on how it was incompetently done because it
was tied back to something on her.
Not the other implications of it.
And I'll be the first to admit that's why you're here on Journey to the Fringe.
It was a little all over the place with me explaining it.
But in the end we got to where we needed to.
We got the main course and it was served for cold I think.
No that wasn't revenge.
So it was served sassily.
They just chucked onto the table.
And then the server left in the huff.
Yep he was pissed.
Do you have any closing thoughts?
I did enjoy this.
I do like that different angle on Steven Greer.
Because we alluded to that there's this like under the surface like rage that he has against
anybody who wrongs him.
And however he perceives it being wronged.
And I think that letter really shows that that is there.
I know.
And I'm so glad that in the end I ended up reading it.
I tried to make AI read it and it wasn't doing a very good job.
So I went back and read it and I was like I just got to read this whole letter.
But it's a wonderful word.
It is.
It's truly some of his best work because we've seen his documentaries.
It was.
Yes.
Then I forgot to say that you had to imagine while I was reading it.
Imagine him sitting in the stool and the camera is on the floor and it's looking up at him.
And what is to be known as the worst camera angle in existence.
Yeah.
I actually think they copyrighted it after that because they came up with something special
in that documentary.
The Greer.
But they quickly moved away from ever using again in the next documentaries.
You know what we better splurge and buy the tripod for the entire shoot.
Oh well thank you for that Chelsea.
He is a truly wonderful person to learn about in the worst way.
I hope we never have to cross pass with him.
We check the email fairly often so I'm just waiting when these episodes come out for the
cease and desist letter or for some some weird allusions to how there's podcasts out there
who are just evil and spiteful and paid off by the inner workings of the governments.
You know what I don't think we can get as worst case scenario was Adam.
He pulls everything.
Our episodes are so bad that he just removed his online presence.
There's nothing there anymore.
That is a great place to end.
I've been Taylor here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe.
Thank you all for listening.
We'll see you next week.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe.
If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow depending
on what venue you are listening to us through.
Also please if possible leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms.
Should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your social media of choice.
I bet you we are there.
And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell
us that we're wrong and terrible either way please send us an email at journeytothefringeatgmail.com.
For now I'll see you in the next episode.