1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,960 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where we like to keep our fringe-ness fresh. 3 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:26,320 So it's almost like a French-ness, which I've now said out loud and it doesn't sound like 4 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,400 a great word. 5 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,120 So we're just going to keep calling it fringe-ness. 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,080 We are your fringe podcast hosts, Taylor and Chelsea. 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,760 Here today, you know what? 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,640 I don't think it's fresh because we actually talked about this topic, so I'm fairly confident 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,800 in saying it's an old topic in fact. 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:42,800 Isn't it? 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,800 I don't know. 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,040 It's up to you, Chelsea, because we talked about it, but you do what you do. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,400 I don't know what you've done in the last week. 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,400 So you know what? 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,640 I almost changed the topic on you. 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,280 That way, this would have all been wrong, but lucky for you. 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:57,280 Fair enough. 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,480 Because I didn't want to do that to you. 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,480 So... 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,240 Okay, Chelsea, just before you move off, it's kind of weird that we pronounce it topic 21 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:05,960 and not topic. 22 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:09,280 You're right, because there's other words where it is pronounced topic. 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,280 Yeah. 24 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,280 In another word. 25 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,280 Yeah. 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,280 That topic. 27 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,880 You don't pronounce that different ways each time, but within other words, sometimes 28 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:17,880 it's topic. 29 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:23,360 Anyhow, today, we're not talking about how you pronounce topic or topic depending on, 30 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,640 I don't know, your accent, I guess. 31 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,200 It's how strange you are. 32 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,320 You strange people. 33 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:32,400 Today I am talking about lay lines. 34 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,740 And if you've never heard of lay lines before, you can think of lay lines as like the opposite 35 00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:42,440 of the equator kind of, but instead of cutting the world in half, it cuts the world into 36 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,840 very random segments because lay lines connect various historic structures, prehistoric sites, 37 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:55,000 and landmarks that have a sort of otherworldly power to them, or association, maybe, such 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,800 as like the pyramids, Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, what else would be on there? 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:01,920 I don't know. 40 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:02,920 Other things? 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:03,920 Hmm. 42 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,920 There are other ones on there that I cannot think of right now. 43 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,920 I'm sure. 44 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:07,920 I'm sure of this. 45 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,420 Oh, maybe like Coral Castle? 46 00:02:09,420 --> 00:02:11,160 I don't know if that would be on a lay line. 47 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,200 I don't know why that's the only one I'm thinking of right now. 48 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,920 We've never done a Coral Castle episode either. 49 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:21,520 Oh, anyhow, you get the idea of what I'm saying, even though we're lost for anything other 50 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,040 than those three things, four things, if Coral Castle counts. 51 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,120 I'm pretty sure the pyramids are technically on them, as they say. 52 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,120 Oh, yeah. 53 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Yeah, I said pyramids. 54 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Oh, yeah. 55 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,200 Oh, that counts as the same one. 56 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,700 There's more than one pyramid. 57 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:37,320 All the pyramids. 58 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,320 Oh, yeah. 59 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,880 Every single pyramid would be on a lay line. 60 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:40,880 You're right for that. 61 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:41,880 Yeah. 62 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:42,880 So you know what? 63 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:43,880 Probably Atlantis too. 64 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,840 We just don't know where it is to put it on the lay line. 65 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:46,840 Yeah. 66 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:47,840 Let's go with Atlantis too. 67 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,960 I'm sure some of would argue that, and funny enough, it might come up in this episode. 68 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,400 So the general belief... 69 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,400 So Chelsea. 70 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Yeah. 71 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,680 Just before you explain it to us, I just want to make sure it's not a place where you 72 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,840 can just lay down and have a good nap. 73 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,920 I wish, because I would be there so fast, and I would also say that I'm nowhere near 74 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:09,320 a lay line, if that was the case. 75 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,320 But no. 76 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,040 The idea of a lay line is developed in the early 20th century Europe. 77 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,280 The general belief is that the alignments were recognized by ancient societies, leading 78 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:24,400 them to build structures along them, perhaps to harness their power, perhaps to guide UFOs, 79 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,360 perhaps that ancient humans were in tune with some ethereal force, largely unobserved 80 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,320 by modern man, and constructed their sacred places in specific spots where that force 81 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:41,520 was strongest, whether it was to take advantage of the energy, maybe draw on the energy. 82 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,520 I don't know. 83 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,200 I don't know if anybody really knows. 84 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:50,160 And that's what we think of it now, lay lines, but the idea was developed in the early 20th 85 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,160 century Europe. 86 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:57,160 Reverend Edward Duke thought up the idea that sacred sites might have been constructed 87 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:03,000 in alignment with one another in 1846, when he observed that some medieval churches aligned 88 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,160 with each other. 89 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,560 That's kind of the first ever idea of something like this. 90 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:17,600 And in 1909, Wilhelm Eud in Germany argued that the presence of linear alignments connected 91 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,400 various sites and suggested that they had religious and astronomical function. 92 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:29,480 And then in Germany, the idea is referred to as insert German name here because I am 93 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,480 not even attempting this one. 94 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:32,720 Sorry guys. 95 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,800 But those words equal holy lines. 96 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,800 And it was adopted by some proponents of Nazism. 97 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:45,720 Funny that that is not Nazism is not funny, but just no, but it's it really like to take 98 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,240 up the alternative spirituality. 99 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,600 Like that was Nazism. 100 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,320 They loved like, oh yeah, to bet Shangri-La. 101 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,240 They really liked Atlantis. 102 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,080 They they really just anything that was like alternative history they loved. 103 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:07,120 It's amazing when we like started this podcast, we had the original idea that we like do the 104 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:15,000 talking and we had no idea in that general brainstorming session that Nazism would come 105 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,080 up so much on this podcast. 106 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,080 It's crazy. 107 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,000 Yeah, it's you know what? 108 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:27,040 The one thing I did learn is how much like conspiracy lore is grounded in white supremacy 109 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,040 and Nazism. 110 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,040 Oh yeah. 111 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,360 Well, I shouldn't even see white white supremacy. 112 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,840 Ethnocentricity is probably a better word because every lost continent has had somebody 113 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,200 who's trying to pursue a minority group. 114 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,720 They claim to them as part of that. 115 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:42,720 Yeah. 116 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:48,280 And they I mean with all how much esotericism, I think that's how you probably say that 117 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,240 word in that context went on with it. 118 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:58,200 It makes for some good lore around the Nazis as well with kind of this other worldliness. 119 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,960 But this episode is not about the Nazis. 120 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,160 It just so happened to come up again. 121 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:10,120 So that's kind of the first rumblings of an idea of what they're going for with laylines 122 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,200 and what it eventually comes to be. 123 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:18,880 And then along comes Alfred Watkins and he's an English antiquarian, which is someone who 124 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,640 studies old things like artifacts, historic sites, archives, manuscripts, so on. 125 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,240 He was also a successful businessman and an amateur archaeologist. 126 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,280 He also was a big fan of photography. 127 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:37,080 And he really develops the idea and laid the foundation of laylines. 128 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,920 And he puts this forth in his book titled The Old Straight Track in the 1920s. 129 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:49,680 He argues that straight lines could be drawn between various historic structures and that 130 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,440 these represented trade routes created by ancient British societies. 131 00:06:54,440 --> 00:07:00,600 And I must say at this time, we're specifically speaking about the UK. 132 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:07,920 Oh, yeah, yeah, the great British Empire of 3000 BC, of course, of course. 133 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:15,440 According to his account, he was driving across the hills near Black Warden, her year 134 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:16,840 forward shire. 135 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,280 I do speak English, but not this kind of English. 136 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,480 No, not English English. 137 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,320 You just speak the regular English, the inferior language that cannot convey what the aliens 138 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:27,320 want. 139 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:28,320 Yes. 140 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:34,680 And when he looked across the landscape, he observed the way that several features lined 141 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:35,680 up together. 142 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,120 He subsequently began drawing lines across his ordnance survey maps, developing the view 143 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:46,240 that ancient British people had tended to travel in straight lines using mark points 144 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,440 along the landscape to guide them. 145 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:54,240 Watkins said that he was unhampered by other theories and that his observations were yielding 146 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,760 astounding results in all districts. 147 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,960 He further theorized that starting at any one point along the line and traveling along 148 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:08,160 it would also reveal sites not mapped on maps such as forest glades, trenches, or notches 149 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,800 on crested hills. 150 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,720 In his book, The Old Straight Track, he drew upon earlier research citing the work of astronomer 151 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,560 Norman Lockyer, who argued that ancient alignments might be oriented to sunrise and sunset at 152 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,800 solstices. 153 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,560 Watkins referred to these as lays, and the term lay was derived from the old English 154 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,960 term for a cleared space, with Watkins adopting it for his lines because he found it to be 155 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,360 part of the place names of various settlements that were along the lines he traced. 156 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,320 So, Chelsea, just so I'm on the same page as you, does that not mean that the original 157 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,520 guy was just saying that these are basically on the same lateral level because they would 158 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:52,480 experience sunrise and sunset at the same time, which is what they're connoting? 159 00:08:52,480 --> 00:09:01,160 Yes, I mean, right now, this is literally sites that are within the same area and not 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,280 a far distance from each other. 161 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,160 Literally, you could stand on a hill and see that they were all aligned. 162 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,200 Okay, never mind, that they literally are the same line because they're within 20 kilometers 163 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,200 of each other. 164 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,600 Yeah, basically. 165 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,960 And at this point, and for most of this episode, which I find super strange, we don't really 166 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,360 leave Britain. 167 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:27,720 This whole layline thing has come strictly from Britain, for some weird reason. 168 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,440 Other things don't get tied to it for a while. 169 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,520 It kind of sounds like it's because the British thought it was their way of being superior 170 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,520 to others. 171 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,520 Could be. 172 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,400 So nobody else really wanted to adopt it. 173 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,840 Yeah, either that or they didn't want to think of anything outside of Britain, maybe? 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,440 Yeah, they don't tell the cometers about it, just the British folk. 175 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,960 Yeah, it only applies to them. 176 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:56,520 So Watkins also observes the recurrence of quote, coal and quote, Dodd in English place 177 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,120 names, thus suggesting that the individuals who established these lines were referred 178 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,160 to as Coleman or Doddman. 179 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,480 And so clarify that a little bit. 180 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,160 Here's what I'm talking about with the Doddman paste. 181 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,320 Come on, son of a bitch. 182 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520 You just want me to Google something? 183 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,200 Oh, sorry, are you sharing your screen? 184 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,200 No. 185 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,200 Oh, OK. 186 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,200 I should have just shared my screen. 187 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:23,200 Yeah. 188 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,840 If I'm really thinking about it now, I wouldn't be having so many problems. 189 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,080 I could have just showed you the original one. 190 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,600 Here we go. 191 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,600 OK. 192 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,600 It's the second one in. 193 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:39,320 There's a chalk geoglyph depiction of a man in the side of a hill in Sussex holding what 194 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,960 looks like two sticks called quote, the long man of Wilmington. 195 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,320 Is he or is he just doing a shoulder stretch in a doorway? 196 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,160 I held that pose specifically before. 197 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,160 Yeah. 198 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,880 And then you can't keep your arms down. 199 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:53,880 Yeah. 200 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,960 Well, no, no, it's more so to stretch out your shoulders like you put your arms on there 201 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:58,960 and then you lean forward. 202 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,840 See that when I did this, where you go in the doorway and you hold your hands there and 203 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,160 then you leave and then your arms go up. 204 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:11,800 But no, if you look, his hands are clearly a little bit past the door frame so that he 205 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,360 can hold himself there while he pushes forward to stretch out his shoulders. 206 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,560 This is how you relieve your shoulders tension. 207 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,120 It's in the lay lines, guys. 208 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:27,320 The long man of Wilmington in which Watkins proposed that this is a depiction of an individual 209 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,960 measuring where the lay lines are. 210 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:30,960 Oh, man. 211 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,120 The next guy has a very awkward penis. 212 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,160 I need to go look at this. 213 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:41,320 Yeah, that is very awkward. 214 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,400 We're not going to put this stodman on there. 215 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,400 We're going to put the next guy with the awkward penis. 216 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,040 The CERN Abyss giant? 217 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,040 Okay. 218 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:55,640 Although Watkins gained a small following, Watkins's ideas were never accepted by a British 219 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,680 archaeological establishment, a fact that frustrated him. 220 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,440 There's a lot of things about this that were frustrating to him. 221 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,200 His critics noted that his ideas relied on drawing lines between sites established at 222 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,960 different periods of the past. 223 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,520 Obviously, his lay lines didn't have any magical connotations to it. 224 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:18,600 These are literally just, they all seem to be in a straight line and he was saying that 225 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,000 it was for trade routes and stuff like that. 226 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,280 There's nothing mystical about it. 227 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,040 And also, if it's for trade route, that doesn't make any sense why it would need to be a straight 228 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,040 line. 229 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,480 If anything, trade routes, in fact, are not straight lines unless you're on an airplane. 230 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,520 Yeah, that's my next sentence. 231 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,760 They also argued that in prehistory, as in the present, it was impractical to travel 232 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:44,240 in a straight line across Hillier Mountainous areas of Britain, not that they're, you know, 233 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,280 mountainous, rendering his lays unlikely as trade route. 234 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,760 They also argued that Britons would not have been sophisticated enough to produce such 235 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,560 accurate measurements across the landscape. 236 00:12:54,560 --> 00:13:00,600 In 1926, advocates of Watkins's beliefs established the Straight Track Club. 237 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,880 To assist the scoring body of enthusiasts who were looking for their own lay lines in the 238 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,560 landscape in 1927, Watkins published the Lay Hunters Manual. 239 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:16,600 And Watkins dies in 1935 and the club went on without him, however, became inactive after 240 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,640 the Second World War and eventually disbanded and lay lines just kind of fade into obscurity 241 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,840 in the 1935s. 242 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:32,400 So that is until the 60s when Watkins ideas are revived in various forms by the countercultural 243 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,200 Earth Mysteries movement. 244 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,040 What a weird countercultural movement. 245 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Basically just the hippies, right? 246 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,720 Basically, yeah. 247 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,800 So starting sometime in the 40s, did the hippies like need to like stretch out their shoulders 248 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,160 and they found this like giant in Wilmington who's like, oh, I've got to stretch for you. 249 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,920 He never comes up again. 250 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,440 Oh, he is forgotten by time until I bring this up. 251 00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,920 Be honest with you. 252 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,480 Nobody's ever talked about him since. 253 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,000 I haven't heard of him. 254 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Even now. 255 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,520 Oh, so starting sometime in the 40s through the 60s, the archaeological establishment 256 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,840 blossoms in Britain just fucking takes off. 257 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,720 And this is due to a variety of university courses coming available on the subject, which 258 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,720 allows the discipline to become professionalized. 259 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,120 Goodbye, amateur archaeologists. 260 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,480 Hello, Earth Mysteries, I presume, but also don't presume because I don't think those 261 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,560 go hand in hand. 262 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:34,400 So cut to the 60s when a counterculture movement comes in and lay lines go from trade routes 263 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,640 to invisible energy lines of sacred significance or mystical power. 264 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,200 They were lines of power that pass of some form of spiritual force or energy accessible 265 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:50,240 to our ancient ancestors, but now lost to narrow minded 20th century scientific thought. 266 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,880 So we really have a weird head coming about with archaeology becoming professionalized 267 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,680 and then these Earth Mystery groups coming about, which are like you guys are just like 268 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,480 book nerds that do everything by the book and they're not getting along. 269 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:13,680 In his book published in 1961, Skyways and Landmarks, Tony Webb published his idea that 270 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,040 Watkins lays were both real and served as ancient markers to guide alien spacecraft 271 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,360 that were visiting Earth. 272 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:27,720 He came to this conclusion after comparing Watkins's idea with those of French ufologist 273 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,040 Amy Michel who argued for the existence of ortho-tenes. 274 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,080 I've never heard of those. 275 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,580 Neither have I. 276 00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:38,480 Lines along which alien spacecraft traveled. 277 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,560 Webb suggested that either spacecraft were following the prehistoric landmarks for guidance 278 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,320 or that both the lays in the spacecraft were following a magnetic current flowing across 279 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,320 the Earth. 280 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,200 I can just say that makes more sense than a friggin' trade route. 281 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,200 It does. 282 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,280 I can pick this up. 283 00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:01,200 I think the guy was kinda on to something but he didn't know quite what. 284 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:07,400 But this guy after Watkins, Watkins is the guy to like name lay lines and come up with 285 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:13,600 it and then Tony Webb comes along and this is the first mentoring of anything mystical 286 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,120 of any sort about the lay lines. 287 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,440 So that's 1961. 288 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,440 You know what? 289 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,120 I'm more behind this theory than just like hey they can see this one so they just tried 290 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,160 to build everything in a straight line and then they can't. 291 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,360 In a straight line and they walked with William, yeah. 292 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,040 It weren't allowed to deviate. 293 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,920 All of Britain is on a straight line. 294 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,800 I mean what is Britain but a straight line of a country? 295 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,440 That's the first guy in the Earth Mysteries movement I guess. 296 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:48,840 So in comes John Mitchell and he's an esotericist who comes in and promotes these ideas to a 297 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,040 wider audience than even Tony Webb I guess. 298 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:58,120 I'm not sure why it was so much bigger but John Michelle publishes a book in 1967 so 299 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,080 this is six years after and it's called The Flying Saucer Vision. 300 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,440 Obviously the ancient astronaut theory is brought up in detail and basically just says 301 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,240 this is the time of the ancient astronaut theory. 302 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,480 I mean this is around the time probably that what's his face. 303 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,120 Eric Mondan again published his book and there is just a mess. 304 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:19,160 This is, this would be it. 305 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,960 Actually now that I'm thinking of it, the huge Earth Mysteries movement. 306 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,080 There is a huge like golden era of ancient astronaut. 307 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,680 I mean we have the TV show now but this was where all these books were published. 308 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,560 They were in the sweet spot of like UFO weirdness and everything at that time and you could 309 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:38,560 just make shit up. 310 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,160 Oh yeah that was the important part. 311 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,160 There's kind of two things. 312 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,800 One, it's hard to get perfect information from your end to actually research it and 313 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,640 two, nobody's gonna check if you're lying at the time which is fantastic. 314 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,920 Oh no and they just ate it up. 315 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,360 It was like oh people are already talking about this. 316 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:59,600 I'm gonna jump in on it and I'm gonna say the exact same stuff but I'm gonna make stuff 317 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,560 up along the way and people are gonna fucking love this. 318 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:08,540 Anyhow he's talking about the ancient astronaut theory and it's brought up in detail and basically 319 00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:13,720 it's just saying that aliens were here assisting humans and were looked at as gods you know 320 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,400 the theory blah blah blah. 321 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,760 They left because we became too materialistic and technology focused but one day they're 322 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,320 gonna return if we reactivate the ancient centers. 323 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,400 Same old story in every freaking ancient astronaut book. 324 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:33,800 He writes another book in 1969 which is pretty much the same stuff as you do at that time 325 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,200 called The View Over Atlantis. 326 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,040 You probably know exactly what this book is about too. 327 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,720 It's described as one of the founding documents of the modern Earth Mysteries movement. 328 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,760 He becomes quite prominent in the Earth Mysteries movement at the time and get this he comes 329 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,600 from yet another wealthy British family. 330 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,840 I don't know how many times it comes up these people just are filthy rich. 331 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:02,040 He's actually well connected on his mother's side to like Dukes, someone that was the mayor 332 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,920 of London or like lots of political connections there. 333 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:06,920 He's just wealthy. 334 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,480 He's just like I wanted on this apparently like a renowned pot smoker for all of his 335 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,360 life dies of lung cancer and he just writes weird books. 336 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,920 He wrote so many books I just have to tell you some of the things he wrote about which 337 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:25,520 included the Shakespeare authorship question a book on Adolf Hitler quote and a book condemning 338 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,440 Solomon Rushdie during normal things that people do normal things. 339 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,440 It's so weird. 340 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Chelsea to be fair you could have just called it celebrity quotes. 341 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,440 We didn't need to know it was only one celebrity and the celebrity was Hitler. 342 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,280 Yeah, would you call him a celebrity? 343 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,280 He's a celebrity. 344 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,200 Would you not say he's a celebrity? 345 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,040 On the last page it's like surprise these quotes are for me, Adolf Hitler. 346 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,720 He also writes a book condemning Solomon Rushdie during the Satanic versus controversy and 347 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,880 so on which is something I apparently need to learn more about. 348 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,200 Anyhow, back to lay lines. 349 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,320 I just thought it was funny because it comes up so much that these people just take up these 350 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,200 weird hobbies because they're like rich. 351 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,280 Anyhow, back to lay lines. 352 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,200 Here which is his book The View Over Atlantis. 353 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:17,000 He interpreted lay lines by reference to the Chinese concept of geomagnetic energy lines 354 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:24,160 which he transliterated as lung may which equaled dragon veins. 355 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,080 He proposed that advanced ancient society that had once covered much of the world had 356 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,160 established lay lines across the landscape to harness this lung may energy. 357 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,240 Translating the term lung may as dragon pass he interpreted tales from English mythology 358 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,360 and folklore and which heroes killed dragons so that the dragon slayers became the villains. 359 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:49,840 Hutton later noticed that Mitchell's idea embodied a fervent religious feeling which 360 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:55,600 though not Christian was heavily influenced by Christian models adopting an evangelical 361 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,440 and apocalyptic tone that announced the coming of an age of aquarius in which ancient wisdom 362 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,720 would be restored. 363 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,720 Michelle invented various claims about archeological evidence to suit his purpose and he viewed 364 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,320 archeologists as antagonists seeing them as the personification of the modern materialism 365 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,560 he was railing against. 366 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:22,520 While John Michelle Mitchell is working on his heavy hitter Atlantis book The Lay Hunting 367 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,440 Community is taking form because there was already kind of the rise with the two books 368 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:35,000 which was John Michelle's first book and the Tony wed one which kind of burst this lay 369 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:41,040 hunting community where in 1962 a group of ufologists get to work establishing the Lay 370 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,040 Hunters Club. 371 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,880 Michelle's book being most of the inspiration for it they just get together and travel around 372 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,880 Britain trying to identify lay lines connecting various historic structures and sites and still 373 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,200 at this time it's only Britain. 374 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Despite the fact that we've gotten into Chinese mythology. 375 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,040 Interesting. 376 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,040 I know isn't it? 377 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,040 It's super weird. 378 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,200 It's still like 1962 you would think they'd come out of Britain. 379 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,200 Nope. 380 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,280 Churches were particularly favored by the lay hunters who often worked at the assumption 381 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,600 that such churches had almost always been built atop pre-Christian sacred sites. 382 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,600 Not sure why. 383 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,600 As I'm saying they don't give any reasoning. 384 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,760 In the 70s and 80s there is a huge increase in publications on lay lines just because 385 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,120 of kind of what's going on in the community at that time. 386 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:32,880 We also see a huge pickup during that time of just like UFO topics as we see with even 387 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Roswell was around that time right? 388 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,320 Yeah the 70s right? 389 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,520 Yeah that's where it comes back. 390 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,680 So I think it's just you know the culture going on at the time. 391 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,440 So Phillip Hesleton, Layline Enthusiast. 392 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:54,240 He establishes Layhunter magazine in 1965, edited at some points by Paul Screton who 393 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,400 also wrote the book Quicksilver Heritage in which he argued that the Neolithic period 394 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:05,240 had seen an idyllic society devoted to spirituality but that this was brought to an end through 395 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,320 the introduction of metal technologies in the Bronze Age. 396 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,000 He argued that this golden age could nevertheless be restored. 397 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,560 I guess Laylines and ancient astronauts go hand in hand now that I think about it. 398 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,480 This kind of makes sense right? 399 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,280 Because of the ancient structures that are stowed upon us by the gods that were made 400 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,760 by them and the gods are creating aliens. 401 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,760 Yeah. 402 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:29,760 Yeah. 403 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:30,760 And I mean. 404 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,720 Of course what you're going to do is just completely disregard geography and just build 405 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:41,160 something, go up, drive in a straight line and then build the next one, go up and continue 406 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,120 that straight line and build the next one regardless of geography. 407 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,560 If you think about it in not just Britain but the world, I mean you can connect pretty 408 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,600 much anything with a straight line. 409 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:51,960 That's the fun thing about a sphere. 410 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,320 You can make straight lines pretty easy. 411 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Yeah. 412 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,680 So part of the popularity of Layhunting was that individuals without any form of professional 413 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,720 training and archaeology could take part in this and feel that they could rediscover the 414 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,200 magical landscapes of the past. 415 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,400 Which I think is hilarious because in this episode we've seen the professionalization 416 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,800 of archaeology and these people are straight up wanting to keep it amateur and not have 417 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,760 any like professionalism or research to back it up at all. 418 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,480 They're just like you guys suck. 419 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,480 You're professionals. 420 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,240 You know what you're doing and you just don't agree with us so we want to have nothing to 421 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,240 do with you. 422 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,240 No. 423 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,720 It's kind of funny when professionalism completely disregards your thing. 424 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,440 So the only people who do do it are not professionals. 425 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,440 Yeah. 426 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,440 No and that's completely it. 427 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:47,280 So I find that hilarious and they're like we hate you too and we just have this mutual 428 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,640 hatred of each other because we just don't agree that this is a thing. 429 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,280 Layhunting welcomed those who had a strong interest in the past but felt excluded from 430 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,880 the narrow confines of Orthodox academia. 431 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,400 They took you in if you just didn't know what you were doing. 432 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,960 That's an interesting way to put it. 433 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,920 It was a safe spot for the idiots that couldn't get in. 434 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,800 Who got me in front of the geologists. 435 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,200 I got rejected again from the archaeology university and they're like you have a safe 436 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,200 place here. 437 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:27,200 The Layline's Hunters Group and they fully integrate it with other esoteric practices 438 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,440 like numerology and dosing because you might as well at that point. 439 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,120 And hey I have nothing to say about numerology and dosing. 440 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,880 I just think it's hilarious that they're just trying to make it even less scientific 441 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,880 I guess. 442 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,200 It was also made up of people from all walks of life except those professionals of course. 443 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,120 No if you actually know what you're talking about completely not allowed. 444 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:52,120 No. 445 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,120 Band. 446 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:58,320 And there's different classes of people, different political opinions, cryptids. 447 00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,320 Just kidding. 448 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,320 Bigfoot wasn't there. 449 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,040 And within such an eclectic variety of individuals of course that meant the understanding of 450 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,680 Layline's very greatly which included everything from Lay's mark of pre-existing energy current 451 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:17,000 and others believe that what they were building there was to help direct the energy. 452 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,760 And my thought is that these people are way too into this. 453 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,360 Like they built this entire community that's made up of non-professionals because professionals 454 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:26,360 are not allowed. 455 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:31,360 Only if you're a professional somewhere else and have no idea what you're talking about 456 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:32,360 when it comes to this. 457 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:37,040 Yeah, it honestly feels like somebody was laughed at by a geologist once and they said 458 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,840 screw you I'm gonna start this club because you're not allowed now. 459 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,720 And it's gonna, we're not even gonna have any basis in reality. 460 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,960 No, you told me this is wrong. 461 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:47,960 Well guess what? 462 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,080 It's the only right thing in the world now. 463 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,080 Yeah, exactly. 464 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,040 And I think it's so funny because when there's no professionals and like they don't even 465 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,000 have an opinion on it, just of course you're gonna get everybody with like every opinion 466 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,520 under the sun about what lay lines are because like why not? 467 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Why not? 468 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,520 And with so many differing opinions, they all do agree on this thing, which is that 469 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,920 the lays were laid out between 5000 BCE and 26000 BCE. 470 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,880 That's the only thing apparently they agree on is where the lay lines are coming into 471 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:22,880 existence. 472 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,680 Wait, I just want to make sure I have this right then. 473 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,160 They're not all laid out the same time. 474 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,720 They're laid out over a 20,000 year period then, correct? 475 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,160 Yeah, you can interpret it that way. 476 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,160 Okay. 477 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,000 I think that's the more beneficial to their opinion way of laying it out. 478 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:46,000 I was thinking of it more of like they all came into existence at once in the 20,000 479 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000 period. 480 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,880 But they just don't know within that 20,000 period when. 481 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,880 Yeah, I mean either way could be interpreted and that's the thing when nobody's a professional 482 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,920 weighing in on this. 483 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,920 Well and they're not gonna specify either. 484 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,440 They just face it. 485 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,680 I just love that there's like this is the only thing they agreed on. 486 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,680 Yeah, that's okay. 487 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,680 They're doing their best. 488 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,360 I gotta say if I was in this club, I wouldn't even agree with this. 489 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:15,920 I'd be like lay lines are earth energy obviously is what I would think they were. 490 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:21,200 They're an energy grid within the earth and so they've always been there and these guys 491 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,960 think that they were made within these time frames. 492 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,480 So I don't even know what the fuck they're thinking but they agree on it all of them. 493 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,240 So they just live their lives doing this arguing with the professional archaeologists and taking 494 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,240 a liking to. 495 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,320 I would also like to point out most of the things that I know are on lay lines were not 496 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,080 built prior to 5000 BCE either. 497 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,240 Oh, but they were. 498 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,720 Okay, never mind. 499 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,160 I am mistaken. 500 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,600 You are. 501 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,440 Maybe it's just this one particular club. 502 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,720 I have no fucking idea. 503 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,600 They seem pretty scattered if I was to be honest. 504 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,160 Obviously, nobody's like a professional. 505 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:06,800 Chelsea, they are doing their best was what they have, which is not a lot of instruction. 506 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,760 There's society's rejects. 507 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,320 They just live their lives doing this arguing with the professional archaeologists and they 508 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:21,560 take a liking to archaeo astronomers because they like their arguments for a sophisticated 509 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,920 astronomer priest. 510 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,080 And that is that like well priests, I don't know, but from my understanding of that is 511 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:36,040 that things are connected with solstices and constellations and stuff from these historic 512 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,040 sites. 513 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,040 Right? 514 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,040 Yeah. 515 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,040 In the 1980s, scholars Tom Williamson and Liz Bellamy tried to approach lay lines with 516 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,200 a scientific mindset and ultimately their findings highlighted a crucial error with the 517 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,160 theory and this is why they fucking hate professionals. 518 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,640 I am just gonna say it. 519 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:59,000 Williamson and Bellamy's findings did not outright disprove the existence of lay lines, 520 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,840 but they did cast a fair amount of reasonable doubt. 521 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Essentially, by examining the locations of various archaeological sites across England, 522 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,280 they discovered that there was such a high density of landmarks that it was essentially 523 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,720 possible to draw a straight line in any direction and connect multiple locations. 524 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,400 That is, anyone could create a map of lay lines. 525 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:26,040 Researcher Tom Brooks argued that keen mathematicians lived in Britain as far back as 5000 years 526 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,720 ago before the Greeks had even invented geometry. 527 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:36,040 He, like Watkins, examined ancient sites, 1500 to be precise, and found that they had 528 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:42,320 all been built on a series of isosceles triangles, each one guiding ancient humans to the next. 529 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,240 Okay, I guess technically you could build them on isosceles triangles and still have 530 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,000 them all on straight lines. 531 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,400 I think at this point it's shifting a little from lines to triangles. 532 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,040 Oh, okay, okay. 533 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,040 The more powerful it is. 534 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,560 Which I've never heard of lay triangles. 535 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,760 It doesn't roll off the tongue as nice. 536 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,480 No, but the lines will intersect because at this point there's so many I would assume 537 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,400 places that you're trying to account for that there's gonna be several lines and they will 538 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,480 cross creating triangles. 539 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,440 Oh yeah, oh yeah. 540 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,920 In theory, Brooks's findings would support the existence of lay lines. 541 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,560 But to highlight how skewed this data was, Matt Parker of the University of London School 542 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,880 of Mathematics at Queen Mary cheekily applied Brooks's techniques of drawing layline maps 543 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,360 to Woolworth stores. 544 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,720 I like this part. 545 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,000 Quote, we know so little about the ancient Woolworth stores. 546 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,160 He dukely told The Guardian in 2010. 547 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,320 But we do still know their locations. 548 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,560 I thought that if we analyze the sites we could learn more about what life was like in 549 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,480 2008 and how these people went about buying cheap kitchen accessories and discount CDs. 550 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,440 Evidently, three Woolworth stores around Birmingham formed an exact equilateral triangle. 551 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,280 It was a remarkable discovery. 552 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,720 One that fit his hypothesis, he said, by skipping over the vast majority and only choosing a 553 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,680 few that happened to line up. 554 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,480 Parker's tongue and cheek experiment effectively reached the same conclusion as Williamson 555 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,880 and Bellamy's research. 556 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,120 By choosing a limited set of data from a larger pool, it can be used to support just about 557 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,120 any argument. 558 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:25,520 Well, it bothers me that he chose Woolworth and not places that sells Lay's potato chips. 559 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,160 I think Lay's is Canadian. 560 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,720 No, Frito Lay's is a huge company. 561 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,720 It's international. 562 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,720 Are you sure? 563 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,480 Oh yeah, for sure. 564 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,320 But why wouldn't you do Lay's lines as opposed to Lay's lines? 565 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,200 I feel like he missed out on a really good marketing opportunity. 566 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,600 Oh, it's US based. 567 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,120 Yeah, they own Pepsi too. 568 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,080 Or sorry, Pepsi owns them. 569 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,200 A subsidiary of PepsiCo. 570 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,240 Yeah, also owns Taco Bell and Pizza Hut. 571 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,920 Like, they own a ton, yeah. 572 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,240 That would make sense. 573 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,240 All those big companies own everything. 574 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,240 Yeah. 575 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,280 Anyhow, their book brought about two different responses from the Lay hunters. 576 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,440 In my response, I say only two. 577 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,000 I guess this is another one that they agree on. 578 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,920 So some maintain that this could not be recorded with empirical evidence and rational argumentation 579 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:16,720 that archaeologists in all their professionalism were too narrow-minded to comprehend the theory. 580 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,240 These guys know too much about this one topic. 581 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,360 They can't even get their mind around it because academics, am I right? 582 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,920 The other was to further engage archaeologists by seeking out new data and arguments to bolster 583 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,280 their beliefs. 584 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,080 The Lay Hunter magazine ceased publication in 1999. 585 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,520 Its last editor, Danny Sullivan, stated that the idea of lays were dead. 586 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,560 Hutton suggested that some of the enthusiasm formally directed towards lays was instead 587 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,200 directed towards Archao astronomy. 588 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,280 He also noted that the Lay hunting community had functioned as an indispensable training 589 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,160 ground for a small but important group of non-academic scholars who have made a genuine 590 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,160 contribution to the study of folklore. 591 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,200 That being said, beliefs in ancient Earth energies have passed so far into the religious 592 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,480 experience of New Age, counterculture of Europe and America that it is unlikely that 593 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,880 any test of evidence would bring about an end to belief in them. 594 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,960 Which is a true enough statement, and I mean by any professional, archaeological, or anything 595 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,120 that studies like the pyramids or anything like that, lay lines are a pseudo-archaeology 596 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,680 and a pseudo-science. 597 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,240 So yeah, that's lay lines. 598 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:32,920 Do you have any question or anything that you think needs to be added? 599 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,640 No, and I honestly think that lay lines reached their peak right around the time that Dan Brown's 600 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,680 book The Da Vinci Code came out as a movie. 601 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,000 Because I think they're in that, and that's really where they reached their peak, yes. 602 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:53,200 Well, there's a lot of things, and I couldn't exactly find a list of where lay lines come 603 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,520 up, but I believe... 604 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,240 No, go ahead. 605 00:34:56,240 --> 00:35:01,080 I was just gonna say, I know they've been mentioned even in this podcast before, came 606 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:08,760 up with that induction case in which one of them received the download of data and... 607 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,080 Oh yeah, Rendlesham Forest. 608 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,240 Rendlesham Forest came up there before. 609 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:18,600 I think he got the download in like Morse code or something, and eventually he just like 610 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,760 translates it into all these different significant areas that would be on these lay lines. 611 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,520 Yeah, it was binary, he got it in. 612 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,520 Binary, yes. 613 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,320 And like it comes up in Dan Brown's book. 614 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,600 It comes up, it definitely comes up in all these things. 615 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,040 But I personally like the fact that it's a group of people who refuse to be educated 616 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:48,640 on the topic in which they're researching, who like exclusively do this entire topic. 617 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,360 I wonder if in their research, they just reach a point where they're like, I feel like I'm 618 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,800 getting to know too much about lay lines. 619 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,280 I'm actually too much of a... 620 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,480 Yeah, I'm an archaeologist now, so unfortunately I have to leave the group because now I don't 621 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,480 believe in them. 622 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,480 I'm gonna have to retire. 623 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,480 Yeah. 624 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,480 Yeah. 625 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,480 Like I just know too... 626 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,920 And it's not even like, I don't believe in them, it's probably just that they might 627 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,480 know too much about archaeology or lay lines or something. 628 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,680 They just can't have that. 629 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,360 Yeah, because every now and then you'll hear it in like sophisticated talk, lay lines. 630 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,480 And I shouldn't say sophisticated, that's not quite the right word for it, but it comes 631 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,200 up where you don't expect it. 632 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,840 And nobody really knows enough about it to disprove it. 633 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,800 So I'm glad to hear that it's a group of entirely unsophisticated individuals who have done 634 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,760 everything involved in this. 635 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,280 Well, I wanna say, but people do know enough to disprove it and those people don't believe 636 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,280 in it. 637 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,320 But that's the point that I made in that one of my last sentences there is that now it's 638 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:55,040 so intertwined in the New Age counterculture that it's unlikely that there would be any 639 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:00,520 evidence in which people would believe that it's not there because it's also this like, 640 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,760 well, stick it to the band. 641 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,200 They know too much about archaeology and therefore they don't know anything about... 642 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,760 No, they're in too deep. 643 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:09,760 They're in too deep. 644 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,040 They're just like not of the like higher realm that we're a part of. 645 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,120 Honestly, it was never mentioned, but you know, if you did a little more digging, the 646 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,720 term like Rothschild and like Bilderberg group eventually comes up with the archaeologists 647 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,920 who are educated. 648 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:34,480 And I mean, Lailines themselves, I think, are kind of an interesting thing to look at 649 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:40,960 because I guess there's people who are just looking for in the end, a connectedness between 650 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,520 even if you look at the pyramids in Giza, you look at the pyramids and like there's pyramids 651 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,920 on all continents and yes, it's a very popular shape. 652 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,480 But at the same time, it's selectively picking what is in a straight line. 653 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,040 That is always the problem. 654 00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:01,160 Yeah, but I mean, if you take a pyramid in Egypt and a pyramid in Mexico and a pyramid 655 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,160 here, I mean... 656 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,520 Well, no matter what, no matter what, if you pick two things, they're going to be in a 657 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,880 straight line. 658 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,320 It's just picking that third thing which adds to the straight line. 659 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,000 Yeah, in that part, it's making some sort of weird grid. 660 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,160 But I think it's just people looking for an interconnectedness that there's more to what 661 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,720 meets the eye in the end, I guess. 662 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:28,560 Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense that once again, we add an ethnocentric group who picked 663 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,320 up on this. 664 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,480 It literally no other way. 665 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,960 Nobody else. 666 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,960 On the map. 667 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,400 It's the Nazis and the uneducated. 668 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,400 That's all that go into this. 669 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,480 In Britain and Germany, that's literally the only places we talked about here other than 670 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,680 what I added saying pyramids in Egypt. 671 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,880 Hey, and Chelsea, in fact, you are not an educated archaeologist, are you? 672 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,400 So I'm a part of this group. 673 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,400 Yeah. 674 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,120 Whether you want it or not, you've now officially become part of them. 675 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,440 I guess I have. 676 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,600 I can't argue with that. 677 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,600 I just did an episode on ley lines. 678 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,100 One of them. 679 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,440 And I think with that, I have been Taylor. 680 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,440 You're Chelsea. 681 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,440 We are journey to the fringe. 682 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,320 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 683 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,820 Yeah. 684 00:39:13,820 --> 00:39:16,160 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 685 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,280 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow, 686 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,520 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 687 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:31,680 Also please, if possible, leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 688 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,520 If you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 689 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,240 I bet you we are there. 690 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,720 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 691 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:47,280 us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journey to 692 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,600 the fringe at gmail.com. 693 00:39:49,600 --> 00:40:04,000 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.