1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,440
OK, Chelsea, I'm kind of tired of being the doom and gloom person.

2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,520
I don't want it to be negative news.

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,840
So generally, I'm talking about the destruction of life on our planet.

4
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:15,280
Well, guess what? CNN.com article posted January 29, 2024,

5
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,720
written by Jacopo Prisco.

6
00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:19,760
That's quite the first name.

7
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,480
You know what Jacopo's?

8
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,480
Oh, I don't know.

9
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,880
Actually, I think I know too many Jacopos.

10
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:27,600
Yeah, OK.

11
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,680
Like 10 of them. OK.

12
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,800
That's interesting. I've never had that problem.

13
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,840
Anyhow, name of the article.

14
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,040
The discovery of a possible sign of life in Venus's clouds

15
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,320
sparked controversy.

16
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,680
Now, scientists say they have more proof.

17
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,200
Four years ago, the unexpected discovery in the clouds of Venus of a gas

18
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,560
that on Earth signifies life.

19
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:51,280
Phosphine face controversy, earning rebukes in subsequent observations

20
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,120
that failed to match this finding.

21
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,480
Now, the same team behind that discovery has come back with more

22
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,960
observations presented for the first time on July 17th at Royal

23
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,520
Astronomical Society meeting in Hall, England.

24
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,720
Eventually, they will form the basis of one or more scientific studies.

25
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,280
And that work has already started.

26
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,120
The data, the researchers say, contains enough strong proof that

27
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,560
Phosphine is present in the Venus clouds, our closest planetary neighbor.

28
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,720
Sometimes called Earth's evil twin, the planet is similar to ours in size,

29
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,720
but features surface temperatures that can melt lead and clouds made of

30
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,680
corrosive sulfuric acid.

31
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,200
The work has benefited from a newer receiver installed on one of the

32
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,240
instruments used for the observations, the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope in

33
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,240
Hawaii, giving the team more confidence in its findings.

34
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,440
Quote, there is also a lot more of the data itself.

35
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:51,360
And quote, said David Clements, a reader in astrophysics at Imperial College London.

36
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,840
Quote, we have three observations, campaigns, and in just one run, we got

37
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,840
140 times as much data as we did in the original detection.

38
00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:05,000
And what we've got so far indicates that we once again have Phosphine detections.

39
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,920
This is arguably more significant than the discovery of Phosphine.

40
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:14,200
We're a long way from saying this, but if there is life on Venus producing

41
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,920
Phosphine, we have no idea why it's producing it.

42
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,080
However, if there is life on Venus producing ammonia, we do have an idea

43
00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,200
why it might be wanting to breathe ammonia end quote from the same guy.

44
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,520
On Earth, Phosphine is a foul smelling toxic gas produced by decaying

45
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,240
organic matter or bacteria.

46
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,440
While ammonia is a gas with a pungent smell that naturally occurs in the

47
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,400
environment and is also produced mostly by bacteria at the end of the process

48
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,800
of decomposition of plant and animal waste.

49
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,480
Quote, Phosphine has been discovered in the atmosphere of Saturn, but that's

50
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,760
not unexpected because Saturn is a gas giant.

51
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,880
There is an awful lot of hydrogen in its atmosphere.

52
00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:55,280
So any hydrogen based compounds like Phosphine or ammonia are what dominate

53
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,440
there end quote said Clements.

54
00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:01,200
However, rocky planets such as Earth, Venus and Mars have atmospheres in

55
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,040
which oxygen dominates the chemistry because they didn't have enough mass

56
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,480
to keep the hydrogen that they had when they originally formed.

57
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,000
And that hydrogen has escaped.

58
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,720
Finding these gases on Venus is therefore unexpected quote by all normal

59
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,640
expectations, they shouldn't be there, Phosphine and ammonia have both been

60
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,600
suggested as biomarkers, including on exoplanets.

61
00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,920
So finding them in the atmosphere of Venus is interesting on that basis as well.

62
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,280
When we published the Phosphine findings in 2020, quite understandably, that was

63
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,160
a surprise end quote by Clements again.

64
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,040
Subsequent studies challenged the results suggesting that the Phosphine was

65
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,080
actually ordinary sulfur dioxide data from instruments other than those used

66
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,960
by Clements team such as Venus Express spacecraft.

67
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,440
The NASA infrared telescope facility and the now defunct Sophia airborne

68
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,840
observatory also failed to replicate the Phosphine findings.

69
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:57,840
But Clements said that his new data coming from Atacama large millimeter

70
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,560
submillimeter array or ALMA rules out that sulfur dioxide might be a

71
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,040
contaminant and the lack of Phosphine from other observations is due to timing.

72
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,800
Quote, it turns out that all our observations that check with Phosphine

73
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,120
were taken as the atmosphere of Venus move from night to day.

74
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,520
And all the observations that didn't find Phosphine were taken as the

75
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,040
atmosphere move from day to night end quote from Clements again.

76
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,480
During the day, the ultraviolet light from the sun can break up molecules in

77
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:25,840
the upper atmosphere of Venus.

78
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,680
Quote, all Phosphine is baked out and that's why you don't see it.

79
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,760
End quote Clements said adding that the only exception was the stratospheric

80
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,280
observation for infrared astronomy, which made observations at night.

81
00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,480
But further analysis of that data by Clements team revealed weak traces of

82
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,480
the molecule reinforcing the theory.

83
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,240
It showed Phosphine inside the clouds of Venus at around the part per million

84
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,520
level, which is exactly what we have largely been detecting.

85
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,640
So it's beginning to hang together, but we still don't know what's

86
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,440
producing it.

87
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:57,240
Thank Clements.

88
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,600
And I think that's a good place to stop it there, Chelsea.

89
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,640
Anything you want to say?

90
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:02,000
Think it's dinosaurs?

91
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,000
You know what?

92
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,240
They're actual specifically.

93
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,960
You know what, if it is going to be any dinosaurs, it is pterodactyls because

94
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,840
I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before, but the best

95
00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:16,840
speculation for life on Venus is that it's flying in the atmosphere.

96
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,240
So if it's going to be a dinosaur, it's got to be a pterodactyl or at least

97
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,000
some sort of floating p-rax.

98
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,080
And then we just got to get used to the idea that the Venetians are pterodactyls.

99
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:28,880
No one thought of that.

100
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:29,880
No one thought of that.

101
00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,160
I don't know what the implications are with that either.

102
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,160
We like look.

103
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,840
Have we looked into Venus like what's going on on the surface or is too gassy?

104
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,560
Well, we haven't really.

105
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,440
And it's really weird because it's the closest planet to us.

106
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,320
Like Mars is actually further away by a significant amount.

107
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,520
There's only been one probe ever sent to Venus.

108
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,160
And there's basically like two photos that came back from it because it got

109
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,640
destroyed on the way to landing.

110
00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,800
I was going to say it's probably pretty turbulent in there.

111
00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,240
It's not only turbulent.

112
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,240
It's incredibly acidic atmosphere.

113
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,080
It is the warmest planet in the solar system and the pressure is just killer.

114
00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:12,040
So anything that lands there is promptly going to be destroyed.

115
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,600
Really? Yeah.

116
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,880
I bet it's on pterodactyls, but it's looking more and more like there's

117
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,800
probably life even within our solar system.

118
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,520
And heading back a few fringing minis ago, I wasn't going to say Venus

119
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,440
because now we know there's pterodactyls.

120
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,360
But second runner up is anything with an ocean because apparently they have

121
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,880
large stores of oxygen.

122
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,560
Yes, due to the electricity that happens in there.

123
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:39,360
Yeah.

124
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,200
Therefore electricity.

125
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,760
Well, and there's an incredibly interesting history, too, to Venus of people

126
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,480
seeing weird lights in the sky of Venus or the clouds of Venus is probably a better

127
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,640
way to say it, like astronomers through the last 200 years have seen weird lights

128
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:03,280
in the clouds of Venus, which can be explained through something living in the atmosphere.

129
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:04,800
Well, that's pretty cool.

130
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:05,880
Who said that?

131
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,640
I would have to go look at it, but it's many like famous astronomers

132
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,720
that have seen lights in the clouds.

133
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,000
Oh, that's cool.

134
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:14,560
Yeah.

135
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:15,160
OK.

136
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,440
I would have to make a whole episode out of that, though.

137
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,520
Pterodactyls are wearing like those hard hats with lights on.

138
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,160
I like to think they're having raves in the night sky and they're just.

139
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,760
Yeah, like yeah.

140
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:27,480
Yeah.

141
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:28,720
OK.

142
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,040
But anyhow, you you you got 48 hours to figure out what those pterodactyls are

143
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,200
doing in the night sky there.

144
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,280
You can publish your thesis, you know, send us your thesis before you publish it just

145
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,040
so that we can make sure we're on the same page.

146
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,760
But anyhow, you got 48 hours.

147
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,600
We'll see you at the next episode.

148
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:45,440
Bye.

149
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:56,520
Bye.