From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where I feel like we just need to add a preface
to the start of these things now.
The inane laughing at our own jokes is part of the entire process.
We are very aware of it. If you're here because you like the person that we are making fun
of or learning about, you're probably going to have a bad time. I'm just telling you that
now.
On an episode that doesn't have one specific person that we're talking about. So here we
are laughing and namely laughing nonetheless, but laughing nonetheless.
We are your hosts, Taylor and Chelsea laughing and namely, I'm sure at some point in this
episode here today talking about I've kind of had a hard time describing my topic today,
but I think the easiest way to describe it.
With an article from the New York Post.
Nothing but New York Post.
But only if it's supported by the Epoch Times.
I'll never make the mistake again.
No, the topic today is I guess the best way to put it is space based or UFO based lawsuits.
Oh, even better.
And these aren't quite connected cases, but I felt like this would just be a fun thing
to do.
We haven't done a walk down law lane in a while.
So I thought this would be a fun time.
Okay, definitely sounds like a fun time.
Strap yourself in.
There are some interesting stories.
We're definitely going to learn about some famous UFO cases, but at the same time, we're
not going to look at that much into them because we're more so worrying about the lawsuit
that comes about from it.
We hate looking at anything in depth.
On how you guys want us to look at it.
We can vaguely cover it and move on.
Perfect.
Or allude to it for a couple years.
Yeah.
And then cover it at some point, maybe.
Yeah, exactly.
We covered it just cover it poorly in all the ways you wouldn't think of talking about
it and then just alluding to it again.
And without much more rambling because we just want to get into these stories.
Chelsea, I think everybody's at least seen people claiming that the rocks on Mars are
different things.
Be it lizards, be it bagels, be it big foot way back in the day.
But people are always claiming that yet they're taking no actions.
How dare they?
Well, somebody has in fact taken actions against NASA to force them to look into these issues
that they found on the surface of Mars in the photos that they've taken.
Interesting.
This story comes from a law firm's website, Kahane Law, and it's about this man who's
taken the step.
So this suit comes from a scientist in California named Dr. Joseph.
He is suing NASA for failing or refusing to investigate a rock found by the Mars rover.
He claims that the rock is actually an alien life form, a fungus, that they were failing
to do their duty by not investigating it properly.
Joseph filed his suit in the U.S. District Court in San Francisco against NASA, as well
as Charles Bolden, their administrator.
In the petition he filed, he said, quote, the refusal to take close up photos from various
angles, the refusal to take microscopic images of the specimen, the refusal to release high
resolution photos is inexplicable, recklessly negligent, and bizarre, end quote.
Joseph also believes that the object is growing since it was first spotted in earlier pictures,
and NASA has a different explanation.
They do not feel as though it is any type of alien life.
They claim that it is merely a rock, although it has, quote, an unusual amount of sulfur,
magnesium, and manganese, end quote.
They also do not believe that it has moved at all, as others claim.
Instead, they say that the rover must have bumped into the rock and moved it.
Joseph is demanding that NASA release the high resolution pictures of the object, as
well as 24 microscopic shots of the interior, and he wants all of this information made
public.
Naturally, he also wants the naming rights too.
While it might seem outlandish, Joseph is very serious about this belief, and he has
others who are backing him up in this.
Even if you were right, which is unlikely, and it was an alien life form, the chance
of that information coming out because of this lawsuit is pretty slim.
It's important to note that this is not Joseph's only fringe type of theory.
He's also written a number of papers and books covering the September 11th attack,
as well as alien life.
For many of these things, this credit is credibility as a scientist, and it is quite unlikely that
this suit goes anywhere.
Even though Joseph might not be correct about the alien fungus on Mars, which sounds like
a 1950s B-movie title, it doesn't mean that others won't continually pursue NASA's images
and videos looking for proof.
That probably won't be the way that humans discover alien life, it does make for some
fine entertainment.
Chelsea, this happened in 2014, actually, this case, and I did find the judge's decision.
I just took a few quotes from it.
Here Joseph requests that the court order NASA to quote, take 100 high resolution close-up
in focus photos, end quote, of the specimen he has identified.
Take a minimum of 24 microscopic in focus images, end quote, of the specimen.
Supply the images to the public, allow Joseph to quote, act as an observer at the rover
command facility, and appoint two NASA astrobiologists to rover team, end quote.
Credit Joseph with discovering the organism and allow him to appear as first author on
the first six articles relating to the discovery.
So he petitioned the court for this?
This becomes kind of important right here.
Justice Joseph has not requested relief and his petition does not state any cause of action
other than mandamus, which one sec, I need to actually be able to say what that word
is and I don't know it.
Not mandamus.
Yeah.
Oh, it's to make them do something that they're legally required to do.
That would make sense.
The court orders Joseph to show cause why his petition should not be dismissed for failure
to state a claim.
Joseph's petition raises only a generalized grievance shared with many citizens.
With alleges that he is an astrobiologist and has published many papers in the field
petition at 15 to 22.
However, quote standing is not measured by the intensity of the litigants interest or
the fervor of his advocacy.
The only injury Joseph alleges is NASA's failure to investigate a specimen depicted
in an image taken during a Mars rover mission.
This is not an injury particular to Joseph.
Joseph also suggests that he is standing because he is a taxpayer.
Currently taxpayer standing is only allowed quote in a narrow range of establishment clause
cases and quote because the establishment is a specific limitation on exercise of the
power to tax and spend.
In addition to not alleging a violation of the establishment clause, Joseph does not
appear to have alleged a violation of any specific federal law.
Accordingly, it is ordered that Joseph show cause why this case should not be dismissed
for failure to state a claim and or for lack of standing.
Those are some nice burns.
Yeah, I really like when it's formal just telling a year and idiot go away.
I also googled this guy and it turns out this is by no means the only ridiculous lawsuit
he's filed.
All of them he's a self-wrap.
So Dr. Joseph sued Amazon in 2012 alleging that Amazon regularly quote publishes and
copyrights defamatory and libelous statements about competitors including the plaintiff.
He sued Springer Nature who he contends conspired to cover up his discoveries and defraud him
as they retracted some of his papers about extraterrestrial life in 2020.
And there was a criticism in the court case there.
The complaint is at times difficult to follow.
It is littered with speculation, confusing ramblings, conclusory legal assertions and
personal attacks against the defendants.
It got dismissed in 2021 with prejudice, which means he has to pay the other lawyer.
And then he said that the judge who dismissed his case is a fraud who was bribed.
He basically went out and made a statement.
You have at least two crooked judges, Cronin who took bribes and Viscosell who is covering
it up.
Both judges have conspired with the defendants to commit fraud against the court and to pervert
and obstruct justice.
And they have ruled that a click through agreement is valid despite the fact that even the defendant
admits it is fake and it is impossible for anyone to click, check, agree or sign.
But that truth doesn't matter to these two Black Robes criminals because as Viscosell
has admitted the case is fixed.
Cronin belongs in a jail cell.
Viscosell is not fit to serve on the bench and no, I don't expect you to investigate
the two gangsters in Black Robes.
I expect you and the Southern District to cover it up and blame the victim because
I suspect there are a lot of judges who are taking bribes just like Cronin, which is why
Viscosell is covering it up.
If these two representatives of the Southern District then it's a cesspool of correction.
Oh and sorry his name is Ron Joseph.
Spell RHAWN.
He then went on to suit the city of San Jose.
Joseph was involved in a feud in 2018 with his next door neighbor over light infusions
onto his property.
Joseph has alleged that his neighbor hated him for quote his race, religion and sexual
orientation.
End quote.
He also alleged that San Jose code inspector, Jacef Gabilisco, I'm sure that's how you
say it.
Joseph recently solicited an accepted money from and entered into a conspiracy with plaintiff's
neighbor to commit hate crimes against plaintiffs based on plaintiff's neighbors perception
of plaintiff's race, religion and sexual orientation.
Joseph filed a lawsuit against the city of San Jose as well as he alleged they told him
to strip eight of his cypress trees from their base up to five feet as they were in violation
of certain municipal code provisions and he alleged that that would affect their aesthetic
value and endanger their health and that the city did not provide him with a code violation.
He argued that the first amendment should offer free speech protection to his cypress
trees as they are a symbol of his religious beliefs.
This guy just really wants to suit someone.
Yeah, yeah he sure does.
See a doctor ensuing people?
No, cause he would be better at it by then.
I think he might actually have a PhD in astrobiology.
I didn't look into that part.
There's too many lawsuits.
What an interesting thing to speculate on.
Astrobiology.
Yeah.
Cause then maybe it shouldn't be founded.
Yeah.
He alleged that the 12 cypress trees that he planted had a mythical and religious significance.
Plaintiff suggested that he planted 12 cypress trees because he thinks the number 12 has
both religious and cosmic significance citing the fact that there were 12 tribes of Israel,
12 disciples of Christ, 12 hours in part of the day, 12 sons of the zodiac and 12 gods
of Olympus.
He claims that quote, 12 has been seen as a mystical, magical and religious symbol and
again it has cosmological significance and quote.
It's a 12 from like all different kinds of religions.
All different kinds of religions and then also part of the day.
Yep.
This guy's nuts.
He added that quote, as a reflection of my own beliefs, I planted 12 and I made sure
it was 12 and then I put the Celtic cross as well as other religious symbols such as
a Buddha because I shared Buddha's beliefs and those are right there in my front yard
between those trees.
In short, the plaintiff is quite adamant that this feeling towards his trees is not part
of any set of religious beliefs and certainly not part of any organized or recognized religion
instead to put it in his own words.
He describes trees as such quote, they're still religious symbol while not religious
spiritual.
Let's not use the word religious.
People would because it is a religious symbol.
To me it's a spiritual symbol that happens have religious significance and quote end
of that whole part.
I will comment.
I love that he planted 12 then made sure it was 12.
Yeah.
Hey, how many have gotten out?
I think that was 12 just got a retallion make sure it was 12.
You know, maybe he's a doctor of carpentry because like the first rule of carpentry is
measure twice cut once.
And maybe he planted the trees count twice plant once.
Count then plant then count.
I didn't say he was a good doctor of carpentry.
The United States met not only do you see what we're everything but you like and this
guy is like the epitome of it.
You don't see people like this in Canada that often.
You say that but I live in the same town as David Lindsay and my God, he's just he's
a character.
I don't know who that is.
Oh, he's a guy who's going through a court case right now for assaulting a police officer
during COVID.
Oh, that guy.
I didn't know him.
Yeah, he made all his money telling people that they don't actually have to pay taxes.
I remember that.
Allegedly.
And that note I wonder what the Queen of Canada is up to on a different note back to this guy
we're talking about the doctor.
So I love that he's suing everyone over everything.
Love that.
And then there's the typical like all of this stuff that I'm taking a stand against is for
religious spiritual purposes.
So yeah, well no, sorry, religion.
What spiritual for religious people if they were.
Remember, I am using it as a religious exemption.
But it's just spiritual for me.
The San Jose lawsuit got dismissed in 2023 from that judgment.
Here there is no genuine issue of material effect because one, San Jose municipal code
provisions requiring trees to be kept pruned and below a certain height are valid and neutral
regulations of general application that do not constitute a constitutionally cognizable
or otherwise substantial burden on the exercise of plaintiff's belief as he has described
them in his deposition to plaintiff specifically disavows religion and claims that his connection
to his trees is rooted in a vague and indeterminate concept of spirituality, quantum physics and
cosmic mechanics.
Three plaintiff has failed to demonstrate that any of the actions complained of in his
SAC ever actually impinged on any of his beliefs and for plaintiff conceded that he was neither
even made to cut his trees or that he was ever assessed any fine or penalty related to
his trees.
So he also sued NASA again in 2016.
I never found out what he sued them for, but it was dismissed with prejudice.
He yeah, it was NASA money.
So yeah, that's the first one.
I actually found him more interesting than the first lawsuit that he did.
He might get his own episode at some point.
It turns out he wrote a scientific paper that says plasma that lives in the atmosphere is
living and that's what you have those are.
The stuff that comes out of your nose at San's is the blood stuff.
More like lightning, I think is a good way to put it.
Why do we have so many words for plasma?
I don't know many many things called plasma.
Yeah, I don't like it.
Okay, we're going to move on from our friend Ron Joseph to something that it's sorry,
Dr. Ron Joseph, something probably a little more substantive than what he did.
We're going to look at something called the Kecksburg incident, which shall see you might
have an idea of what it is.
But if not, I'm going to give an overview of it on the evening of December 9th, 1965,
a large brilliant fireball was seen in at least six US states and Ontario and Canada
as it streaked over the Detroit, Michigan, Windsor, Ontario area.
Reports of a pot metal debris over Michigan and Northern Ontario, grass fires and sonic
booms in the Pittsburgh metropolitan area were attributed to this fireball.
Some people in the village of Kecksburg, which is 30 miles southeast of Pittsburgh reported
wisps of blue smoke, vibrations and a thump and also that something from the sky had crashed
into the woods.
An early story in the Greensburg Tribune Review stated the following, the area where the object
landed was immediately sealed off on the order of the US Army and state police officials
in anticipation of a close inspection of whatever may have fallen.
State police officials there ordered the area roped off to await the expected arrival of
both US Army engineers and possibly civilian scientists.
When state troopers and Air Force personnel searched the woods, they found quote absolutely
nothing and quote, a subsequent addition in the Tribune.
Or the headline quote, searchers failed to find the object.
Authorities discounted proposed explanations such as a plane crash, air missile test or
re-entering satellite debris and generally assumed it to be a meteor.
Astronomer Paul Ineer said the fireball was likely to have been a meteor entering Earth's
atmosphere.
Geophysicist George Weatherillo.
With the era, Weatherillo?
Weatherillo?
Yeah, Weatherillo.
Discounted speculations that it was debris from a satellite and agreed that the report
was probably due to a meteor.
Former William P. Butt, Bittleman and Fred Hess said it undoubtedly was a meteor and
a spokesman from the Department of Defense in Washington said first reports indicated
that the reported fireball was a natural phenomenon.
So that's the event.
Happened in the 60s.
Then I stumbled across a Vice News article on this which I'm going to read quite a bit
from because it's great.
It's written by Matthew Goh.
I think we've actually used him before.
New documents shed light on NASA's secretive project, Moondust.
There's still no solid answers as to what crashed in Pennsylvania that night, but new
documents tied to an old lawsuit against NASA have uncovered a few of the missing pieces.
A Freedom of Information Act request from the Black Vault, a clearinghouse for declassified
documents, has uncovered new documents related to the Air Force's project Moondust, a sustained
effort to recover objects and debris from the spacecrafts that had crashed to Earth.
Multiple people have been searching for these records for decades and NASA has long claimed
they were either destroyed or lost.
Journalist Leslie Keane hoped to uncover the truth in 2002 and went on the hunt for information
about project Moondust and the Kexburg incident.
A year later, she sued NASA claiming it was holding back.
After previously promising to conduct an expedited search for files related to the 1965 Kexburg
UFO crash, NASA had stonewalled and was withholding documents leaving no recourse but this one.
Keane said in a blog post in 2009.
In 2007, NASA finally relented and gave over the files and agreed to pay Keane's legal
fees related to the lawsuit.
But some of the files related to Kexburg and the project Moondust were allegedly lost forever.
According to a NASA Public Affairs document, included in this latest round of the documents,
NASA sent its files to the National Archives for safekeeping two years after the Kexburg
incident.
In 1996, the National Archives told NASA that the files had been marked as lost since 1987.
Enter the Black Vault, which asks the government for all its documents related to the lawsuit
with Keane.
The documents were found 220 pages back, including some fragments of the project Moondust records.
The file also detailed the reasons why they were so hard to find.
NASA had destroyed many of them as part of a routine cleaning out of old records.
The 220 pages are an interesting grab bag of NASA communications describing struggles
to track down records and State Department communications about Project Moondust.
The diplomatic cables are particularly interesting and paint a picture of NASA in the 1960s rushing
around the world attempting to pick up every scrap that fell from the sky for study.
For example, one diplomatic cable recounts the difficulty NASA had in collecting a piece
of debris that fell in Zambia.
Quote from this,
Contacts says fragment measure 17 by 11 feet is made of aluminum and appears too large
for pickup by Zambia Air Force Caraboo unless cut into.
One cable said another quote,
Took 12 men to carry fragment through difficult terrain to strip, but four men could lift.
According to the documents, NASA later identified the Zambia fragment as a piece of the Apollo
AS-203, an unmanned test craft NASA launched in 1966.
The documents are full of the minutiae of the early days of America's foray into space
when anything crashed to Earth could be part of someone's space program.
What exactly landed in Kecksburg that night in 1965?
In 2005, just ahead of the 40th anniversary of the incident, NASA announced it was a Russian
satellite, but NASA couldn't prove its case because the records had been lost.
Quote,
As a rule, we don't track UFOs.
What we could do, and what we apparently did as experts in spacecrafts in the 1960s,
was to take a look at whatever it was and give our expert opinion.
End quote, a NASA spokesperson said in 2005.
We did that, quote.
We did that, we boxed the case up, and that was the end of it.
Unfortunately, the documents supporting those findings were misplaced, end quote.
That however wasn't NASA's line in 1965, quote.
Investigations of photographs and sightings of the fireball indicated its path through
the atmosphere was probably too steep to be consistent with a spacecraft re-entering
from Earth orbit and was more likely a meteor in a pro-grade orbit from the vicinity of
the asteroid belt, and probably ended its flight over Western-like Erie, end quote.
It's at an archive press release in 1965.
NASA has steadfastly said that the Kecksburg was not the result of an extraterrestrial
crash, but one of NASA's key goals is the search for life in the universe.
To date, NASA has yet to find any credible evidence of extraterrestrial life.
However, NASA is exploring the solar system and beyond to help us answer fundamental questions,
including whether we are alone in the universe.
We lead the US government's search for extraterrestrial life, be it close to home, on planets or moons
of our solar system, or deeper into space.
NASA does not actively search for UAPs and the lack of robust data is the central problem
for scientific study of UAPs and to determine whether they are natural or human-made phenomena.
There is no current data to support that UAPs or UFOs are evidence of alien technology,
as is said by NASA to motherboard, which is the subsidiary of vice or the section of vice.
I can leave out that last paragraph of this article just because I don't think it's that
relevant, but NASA has also changed their position again and they don't think it was
a Russian satellite since that time.
So this is NASA's current position on this.
There is some speculation that the reentry of the Cosmos 96 Vanara-type spacecraft was
responsible for a fireball which was seen over southwest Ontario through from Michigan
to New York.
Investigations of photographs and sightings of the fireball indicated its path through
the atmosphere is probably too steep to be consistent with the spacecraft reentering
Earth orbit and was more likely a meteor in a prograde orbit from the vicinity of the asteroid
belt.
So they're back to, they've changed their minds again.
Interesting.
Is that a lawsuit or?
No, that's just their position.
Is there going to come a lawsuit?
No, there's no documents.
So it's kind of hard to do anything.
Right, right.
It's just kind of where we are.
But yeah, because a lawsuit came about, we did at least learn about Project Moondust
which is to collect anything coming down from space regardless of where it is, which is
incredibly interesting.
And that makes sense.
A little more serious, kind of different, but you'll hear Kecksburg come up a lot because
it is kind of weird and it was quarantined off.
Like everybody agrees on that, just nobody actually knows what landed.
Oh, I love, Bergs are good.
I think it's a pair on as far as my favorite UFO.
Yeah.
And it's the one where people say there was like an acorn shaped thing leaving the site,
correct?
Yeah, that's the one that is theorized by some of the eyewitnesses that it was, I mean,
I guess in the end it was speculation because it was supposed that the Germans had the bell,
which was supposedly in that sort of shape, so they think it was around the right time
for it to possibly have been one of the many theories, I'm sure.
I'm just vaguely aware of that part of the story because it wasn't about the lawsuit.
So I think I gave enough in the overview of that.
The last one we're actually going to finish off with, it's a fairly famous story that
came up actually in, what was I just talking about?
Doctor.
No, William English, I think was his name.
He was in the first UFO casualty story, the British guy.
Was he the casualty?
No, he was the guy who uncovered it.
Author or something, right?
Yeah, this case came up in that story, so it's interesting that it's coming up again
so soon.
Can't be bothered to look up the guy's name though, unfortunately.
So don't worry, doesn't have anything to do with the story.
The record exists in our catalog.
Yeah, it's somewhere out there.
Catalog, catalog, not backwood, catalog.
It's commonly known as the Cash Lundrum UFO Encounter.
Oh, this is familiar.
Yeah, I'm going to set up the story for everybody so they can see what actually happened a little
bit or what has been alleged to happen, then we'll see what comes of it.
On the evening of December 29th, 1980, Betty Cash, Vicki Landrum, and Vicki's grandson,
Colby Landrum, together they are age 51, 57, and 7, are driving home to Dayton, Texas,
and Cash is ultimately a cutlass after dining out.
They later said that at about 9pm, they were driving on an isolated two-lane road in dense
woods.
They saw a light above some trees.
At first, they thought it was an airplane approaching Houston Intercontinental Airport,
which is about 35 miles away, and gave it little notice.
A few minutes later, on the winding roads, they saw what they believed to be the same
light as before, but thought it was now much closer and brighter.
They said that it came from a huge diamond-shaped object that was hovering at about tree-top
level, and its base was expelling flame and emitting a significant heat.
Landrum told Cash to stop the car, fearing that they would be burned if they got closer.
Landrum, who's a born Indian Christian, interpreted the object as a sign of the second coming of
Jesus Christ, telling Colby, quote, that's Jesus, he will not hurt us, end quote.
Outside of her firing at the UFO, I can't see a more American answer to that.
No, there's only the two options.
It's either Jesus or you shoot it.
Sometimes you do both.
Yeah, if you're American enough, and that's anybody in the south.
So Cash says from here she was feeling anxious and considered turning the car around, but
abandoned this idea because the road was too narrow and she presumed to get stuck in the
dirt shoulders, which were soft from the evening's rain.
Also she's driving an old tumble, so it needs like a 17-point turn at that point.
Cash and Lundrum said that they got out of the car to examine the object, but that Colby
was terrified, so Lundrum said she quickly returned to the car to comfort him.
Cash remained outside, quote, mesmerized by the bizarre sight.
The object intensely bright and dull metallic silver was shaped like a huge upright diamond,
about the size of the Dayton water tower, with its top and bottom cut off so that they
were flat rather than pointed.
Small blue lights ringed the center and periodically over the next few minutes flames shot out
the bottom.
Flaring outward to create the effect of a large cone.
Every time the fire dissipated, the UFO floated a few feet downward towards the road, but
then the flames blasted out again.
The object rose about the same distance.
They said the heat was strong enough to make the car's metal body painful to touch.
Cash said she had to use her coat to protect her hands from being burned by the door handle
when she finally got back in the car.
When she touched the dashboard, Lundrum claimed that her hand pressed into softened vinyl,
leaving an imprint that was evident weeks later.
Investigators cited it as proof of their account.
Video evidence of this was shown in UFOs, what's going on in 1885, HBO documentary.
They said that the object then ascended from the treetops and rose higher in the sky, and
then a group of helicopters approached it, surrounding it in tight formation.
Surrounding it in tight formation.
Cash and Lundrum counted 23 helicopters and later identified some of them as Handemroeder,
Boeing CH-47 Chinooks, used by military forces worldwide.
More specifically, Cash claimed that they had United States Air Force markings.
And with the road now clear, Cash says she drove on, claiming to see glimpses of the
object and the helicopters receding into the distance.
From first sighting the object to its departure, they said the encounter lasted about 20 minutes
based on the description giving.
It appears that they were southbound on Texas State Highway when they claimed to have been
seen the object.
So that's the actual story itself.
From there though, and this is where it gets the most interesting, I think.
Like it's a pretty bizarre case because you never hear flames.
I'm interested to see where this goes, and no, you don't usually see flames even from
like military vehicles.
Yeah, you do see black helicopters they come up.
I think it's an episode we've always actually kind of had on the list to do.
It seems like a very specific time frame where they kind of happen.
But that's enough because I want to continue on with the story, the real juicy part that
we get into and it's the health problems that start to arise.
So the witnesses claim after the UFO and helicopters left, Cash took the Lundrum's home and then
went home herself.
That night they apparently all experienced similar symptoms.
So Cash to a greater degree.
The claim was that they all suffered from nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, generalized weakness,
a burning sensation in their eyes, and a feeling as though they were suffering from sunburns.
Over the next few days, Cash said her symptoms worsened, with many large painful blisters
forming on her skin.
When taken to a hospital emergency room on January 3rd, 1981, Cash could not walk and
had lost large patches of skin and clumps of hair.
She was released after 12 days though her condition was not much better.
And she later returned to the hospital for another 15 days.
In the HBO documentary from 85, Cash's hair was shown in pictures and she claimed doctors
switched from treating her for burns to treating her for radiation sickness after realizing
she had been exposed to radiation.
Later she was treated for cancer.
The Lundrum's health was somewhat better though reportedly both suffered from weakness,
skin sores, and hair loss.
In an April of 1981, Vicki was found to be developing a cataract in one eye and Betty
was first treated for breast cancer in 83.
Neither condition was known to have been present prior to their UFO encounter.
That's what this one gets known for.
There's actual symptoms coming from this encounter.
At least it seems to be from that.
That doesn't prove that it's extraterrestrial though.
No and that's actually where this goes.
During their Bergstrom Air Force Base interview 8 months post incident, when asked to sketch
a picture of what they saw, if it had a discernible shape, Betty drew and signed what she described
as a diamond.
Betty Cash and Landren contact their US Senator Lloyd Benson and John Tower and they suggest
that the witnesses file a complaint with the Judge Advocate Claim Office at Bergstrom
Air Force Base.
In August of 1981, Cash, Lundrum, and Colby are interviewed at length by Bergstrom Air
Force Base and are told that they should hire a lawyer and seek financial compensation
for their injuries.
So they find a lawyer, Peter Gersten, who takes this case on pro bono and the case ends
up going through the US courts for several years.
Cash and Lundrum sued the US federal government for $20 million and testimony of officials
from NASA, the Air Force, and Army, and Navy are all given.
I do have a few excerpts just from, I couldn't find the original documents unfortunately because
they're too old, but there's a few things from that those documents that still kind
of are out there.
All here with are the sworn affidavits of Robert Somers, NASA, US Air Force, just all
the people that are involved.
The affidavits established that the UFO allegedly seen by plaintiffs and which is alleged was
proximate cause for their asserted injuries is not and was not owned, operated, or in
the aircraft inventories of the United States of America, nor was it such an object under
the control of the United States or its employees.
On the basis of those affidavits, the United States moves this court for an order dismissing
the complaint of plaintiffs with prejudice or on the alternative finding that there exists
no genuine issue of material fact.
In response to this, we have a letter from the Department of Air Force.
The appeal of your client's claims of personal injuries allegedly caused by an overflight
of an identified flying object and unidentified helicopters on December 29th, 1980 have been
considered under 10 USC 2733 and are denied.
The reason for this decision is the fact that as alleged by the claimants, they'll
to establish that their injuries were caused in any way by the US government or in any
of its agencies or its surreptilities and you should not consider the acceptance and
subsequent denial of the claim as an admission of the truth of any facts alleged by your
clients.
Our investigation has revealed no evidence of involvement by any military personnel
equipment or aircraft in this alleged incident and the arguments you presented to establish
liability of the government are not supported by any case or statutory law.
This is the final administrative action that can be taken on your client's claims.
This denial also satisfies the administrative filing requirements of the Federal Tort Claims
Act.
Based on this denial, your clients have the right to file suit against the government
and an appropriate United States District Court not later than six months from the date
of the mailing of this letter.
And it finishes off.
There is an order of dismissal.
It is hereby ordered that the above noted cause of action is dismissed pursuant to the
federal government's civil procedures rules.
So unfortunately, it doesn't go anywhere, but at least they tried to sue the US government
and I find it an interesting argument.
We don't own it so we don't owe you any money.
Can you know what kind of reminds me a little bit vaguely?
Not exactly.
Of United Kingdom one.
Oh, Randallson Forest.
Yeah, and then they have a whole bunch of health problems and they can't get it covered
because the incident never...
Yeah, that part of their profiles were dacted and unfortunately they never sued for it.
So they didn't make the list.
I actually specifically looked that up to see if it did.
That gives you something to think about.
I mean, they suffered a lot of health problems and where do you see compensation from for
that?
Yeah, and they all kind of suffer the same one.
So it's an interesting case.
They tried to sue the Pledgeirans.
They could.
And I'm saying that with complete seriousness, notice my lack of maniacal laughter.
Inane.
Inane, sorry.
I know, I keep using different ones.
It is inane though.
Yeah, I don't know.
Could Beam actually do that on their behalf?
Would they need to get a lawyer or would he just channel the lawyer?
No, he would be able to go directly to the source, Pledgeiran.
If anybody actually, no, they're not going to listen unfortunately, but it did seem like
somebody who listened to us at one point, they'd have a connection to Beam.
So if they could get us in touch, that would be great.
We could see if they have anything to do with this.
And what their tort system is like.
But yeah, Chelsea, that was...
I had a hard way of describing it.
It all made sense to me as the category, but it's weird cases of in-arc parameter that
had lawsuits attached to them.
It's the legal woes of UFOs.
But that first one with NASA on Mars doesn't quite fit that.
No UFOs.
Maybe a mushroom, but I doubt it.
I really doubt it.
It'll come to us.
Okay.
But yeah, anything you want to add before we wrap this up?
No, because I have not myself sued anybody.
I've not myself yet seen a UFO and needed to sue, nor have I been tracking what NASA
is up to so carefully as if when they slip up, I will sue them.
And hey, we at least know about Project Moondust, which is an interesting thing.
We'll probably never know more about it, but it is a super cool little project.
Like they had to go to Africa and get a spaceship, just one we made.
Just because it didn't fit with the country isn't well equipped to be able to retrieve
it.
Oh.
But with that, I think that's a good place to stop.
I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.
Bye.
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