1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,640 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, following the traditional podcast formula 3 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,700 of host speaking words to you, the listener. 4 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:26,520 We are your podcast-wording hosts, Taylor and Chelsea. 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,560 Here today, do on a Chelsea episode, so that's about where I can get to. 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,840 We'll see if this is anything to do with her episode. 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,440 I think it will, just because I think she's going to follow this formula. 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,800 She's done it pretty much every time in the past, so it's a winning formula. 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,920 Before we even started this podcast and we were brainstorming about ideas for a podcast, 10 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,480 that was one of the first we had. 11 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,480 It was pretty cute. 12 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:52,720 It was the main idea we kept after all the brainstorming. 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,800 We thought that would work the best for everybody. 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,800 And here we are. 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Yeah, interpretive dance came off that list really fast. 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,080 Real fast. 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,680 We do still only look at pictures, and that was also on the list. 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,280 So, yeah, it's all on the formula. 19 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,680 We're making it work. 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,880 You're here, aren't you? 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,040 So today, I felt the need to... 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 I always feel compelled to do an episode. 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,880 Today, compulsion was the paranormal side of sleep, with very specific criteria. 24 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,360 Ah, I am very curious what the specific criteria is, because I feel like this could go many 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:26,360 different ways. 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,360 Really? 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Yeah. 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,600 You don't have one particular thing in mind. 29 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,880 I think you might be doing astro projection. 30 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,880 No! 31 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,240 I'm surprised that's what you went with. 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,240 Okay. 33 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,240 Also, yeah, it could be sleeping abductions, because that's like a specific offshoot of 34 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,240 abduction cases. 35 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,240 No, wrong again. 36 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,240 I know. 37 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,040 But now you're giving us so many ideas for an episode. 38 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,040 Yeah. 39 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,440 People dying in their sleep. 40 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,040 There's that whole idea of you sleep, die in your dreams, you die in real life, which 41 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,400 will be an interesting thing to do on its own. 42 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,640 You're doing this on purpose now. 43 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:00,640 Yeah. 44 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:01,640 You know what you're doing. 45 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,400 I could keep going, but I think you should just tell me the episode. 46 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:12,960 So specifically, the paranormal side of sleep that I'm doing today is delving into the world 47 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:19,320 of the old hag, which is also a world that I don't ever want to be a part of. 48 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,040 So if she's listening right now, she can bug off. 49 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,040 Please. 50 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,040 Yes. 51 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,680 I speak for everyone. 52 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,280 The old hag being a phenomenon in which a sleeper, I think we're all familiar with 53 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,640 sleep for the most part. 54 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:36,960 Kelsey, for those who have not experienced this, can you describe it to them? 55 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:37,960 Bleep. 56 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,240 That's when you get really tired and you need to lay down and you close your eyes and you're 57 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,240 just kind of unconscious for a little bit. 58 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,960 And then you wake up hopefully feeling refreshed. 59 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:48,960 Yeah. 60 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,720 The older you get, the more excited you are about the process. 61 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:52,720 Oh, yeah. 62 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,600 It starts out rough for a while, but it becomes way more enjoyable. 63 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:03,400 The old hag on the other hand, that is when a sleeper feels the presence of a, well, they 64 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,240 awake and they'll feel a presence, a supernatural presence. 65 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,240 Maybe you don't feel it supernatural, but you feel something in the room with you. 66 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:18,040 And it could just be generally the overwhelming sense of fear, but generally people will 67 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:23,880 see something in the room with them, whether it be a shadow person, an old hag, an old 68 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:32,160 ugly witch type lady malevolent being, which immobilizes the person as if paralyzed. 69 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,500 So generally they can only move their eyes and it's in the room with them either sitting 70 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:43,380 on their chest in the corner at the foot of their bed, probably feels like an eternity 71 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:45,640 for the person that it's happening to. 72 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,560 And I don't know, generally probably lasts a couple minutes. 73 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:55,320 In my research, little did I know when I started, the term that I'm using is actually very specific 74 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,480 to our part of the world. 75 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:57,480 Yeah. 76 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,800 And from what I understand about old hag is it's a fairly international phenomenon as 77 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,800 well. 78 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,800 It is. 79 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,800 And we're going to talk about that. 80 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,280 We're going to get fairly specific about it. 81 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,320 But in calling it the old hag, this in our part of the world originates in Newfoundland 82 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,680 in Canada, which is interesting to me. 83 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,600 Also some other fairly unrelated places that I wouldn't think of being connected to Newfoundland, 84 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 just South Carolina and Georgia in the United States. 85 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,960 I think it's pretty common in the United States as well to call it the old hag phenomenon 86 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,240 in which they describe a negative figure of a hag who leaves her physical body at night 87 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,680 and sits on the chest of her victim. 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,560 The victim usually wakes with a feeling of terror, has difficulty breathing because of 89 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:47,040 a perceived heavy invisible weight on his or her chest and is unable to move, i.e. experiences 90 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,040 and sleep paralysis. 91 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,000 And you're not always necessarily going to see the difficulty breathing, but it is a 92 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,200 common feature as well in experiencers. 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,240 And at this point, because of the word hag, I got curious about that, which in European 94 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,640 folklore is an ugly and malicious old woman who practices witchcraft with or without supernatural 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:09,640 powers. 96 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:15,360 Hags are often said to be aligned with the dead or the devil, and sometimes appearing 97 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,200 in the form of a beautiful woman as succubus is a hag believed to engage in sexual intercourse 98 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,120 with men, causing severe nightmares and leaving the victim exhausted. 99 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,840 Yeah, it said beautiful woman. 100 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:30,440 The hags aren't beautiful though. 101 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:38,040 So no, I don't get the connection there, but I got this in a definition of hags, so I don't 102 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,040 get the connection either, if I was to be honest with you. 103 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,960 They sound like different beings entirely. 104 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:50,040 I wonder what would connect it to hag, because a succubus is a whole different entity. 105 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,040 Yeah, just a female practiser of witchcraft, I guess. 106 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:01,240 Yeah, and although viewed in most lores as the antithesis of fertility, the hag is believed 107 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,040 by some scholars to be a remnant of primitive nature goddess. 108 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Anyhow, the hag is not specific to sleep necessarily, but with the help of those very 109 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,280 loosely connected locations in North America, it so became connected. 110 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:22,240 And going back to the old hag, she is described as witch-like, wrinkled, withered old woman 111 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,520 with long hair. 112 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,240 She can appear in doorways next to the bed, even crawl on top of people. 113 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:34,160 They see her crawling up your body that you can't move, sit on them, pin them down. 114 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,400 She also appears as a shadow person. 115 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:44,960 Shadow people can get connected to this, but I would say myself, in my professional opinion, 116 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,440 is that it's a total different entity and phenomenon than shadow people. 117 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,360 But they do get connected. 118 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:57,160 And the legend is so pervasive that locals have turned to using her name as a verb to 119 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,640 describe their experience. 120 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:04,520 Quote, I was haiged last night, another quote, the haiging happened two nights ago, or I 121 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,520 got haigridden. 122 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,520 I have never heard those ever. 123 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:12,560 I feel like it's one person who could use that and nobody would understand what they're 124 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:13,560 saying. 125 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,000 Are they just trying to make this like a thing? 126 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,000 They might be. 127 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:22,080 I don't know how popular they're saying, like implying that it is when people are like, 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,440 oh my god, you too. 129 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,520 I don't know that many people personally that could actually say that anyone would understand 130 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:34,800 what they're saying to be able to use it in such a, you know, sense of like, yeah, common 131 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:35,800 parlance. 132 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:36,800 Yeah. 133 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:42,520 So people thought they could summon the haig by reciting the Lord's Prayer backwards 134 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:48,360 and kill her by sleeping on their backs with knives or boards with upright nails against 135 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,680 their chest designed to stab her when she sits on them. 136 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:53,680 Yeah. 137 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:54,680 That sounds awful. 138 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,680 I know it does. 139 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,840 I would have a bad sleep. 140 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,960 Unvictim of the haig even accused another person in the community of haiging him, which 141 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,440 is summoning the haig to haunt a third party out of jealousy. 142 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,760 That is witchcraft. 143 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,760 That sounds like that would be. 144 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,840 For the people at Newfoundland, the haig exists outside the realm of fairies and goblins. 145 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,320 It is real and a present danger that people experience. 146 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,400 That's the general idea of the old haig. 147 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,400 Does it kind of make sense to you, Taylor? 148 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,520 Is there anything you want clarification on? 149 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,640 I would just be curious. 150 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,280 Did people who experience the old haig, do they say their sleep sucks? 151 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,280 That's a good question. 152 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,960 I probably wouldn't say that it was a good sleep if that happened to me. 153 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,760 But we don't have any like comments from people where they say specifically it's like, and 154 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,920 I felt like I didn't sleep at all that night or something like that. 155 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:45,920 No. 156 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:46,920 Okay. 157 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,480 I haven't heard that in the person that I know that it's happened to as well. 158 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,720 And I didn't think to ask people how their sleep was that night. 159 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,400 Did you feel rested though? 160 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Yeah. 161 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,120 Cause like odds are you're probably not going to feel rested. 162 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,120 Yeah. 163 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,440 But that would be really weird if you're like, and that was the best sleep I've ever had. 164 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,440 Yeah. 165 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,960 So anyhow, I was so rested. 166 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,040 Next time she's so sad, I'm going to stab her. 167 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,160 I haven't seen a comment either way to be honest. 168 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,160 Okay. 169 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,880 Now I'm going to jump into what science says is going on. 170 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,720 Science says that old Hague syndrome is sleep paralysis. 171 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:25,720 That's all it is. 172 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,640 Nothing to be worried about. 173 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,360 And your body undergoes several cycles as you sleep. 174 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,680 Best known of these cycles is called REM sleep, which is rapid eye movement. 175 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,760 During REM sleep, you're likely to be dreaming. 176 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,440 That's where the dreams happen. 177 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:47,000 And to prevent you from acting out your dreams, your brain releases neurotransmitters that 178 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,720 lock down some of your skeletal muscle groups. 179 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,880 Paralysis sometimes prevents you from speaking or calling out. 180 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,480 And you know, acting out your dreams is you're trying to like punch someone and it doesn't 181 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,720 land because you punch so weak in dreams when you want to punch someone. 182 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:03,720 It's a problem. 183 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:04,720 Yeah. 184 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,920 Can you imagine that you're acting that out in your sleep too? 185 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,920 I don't think my sleep paralysis is very good. 186 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:10,920 Cause I'm a sleepwalker. 187 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:11,920 Sleepwalking, yes. 188 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,320 And it's when your body does not release that. 189 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,320 As well as it should. 190 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,320 Thank God. 191 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,920 I'm sure everyone who's ever slept around me does not. 192 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,560 So as REM sleep wanes, your brain reactivates your muscles. 193 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,920 Sometimes though, the timing of wake sleep cycles doesn't synchronize properly. 194 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,520 The space between waking and sleeping, your mind becomes alert while your body still can't 195 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:38,520 move. 196 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,760 And the visual and auditory elements of your dreams may still be playing out hence the 197 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:44,760 hallucinations. 198 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,000 So I think you could in fact call this the exact opposite of sleepwalking then. 199 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,880 Or the thing that malfunctioned is you're unable to move your body in sleepwalking. 200 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,440 This is the exact opposite. 201 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,600 Whereas everything's worked perfectly except you have woken up and everything is still 202 00:10:58,600 --> 00:10:59,600 happening. 203 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,400 Probably a disorder maybe. 204 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,400 Probably. 205 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,400 Yeah. 206 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,360 I mean like it's not going to impact your health. 207 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,640 So it's not that huge at the end of the day but yeah. 208 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Might. 209 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:10,640 What if the old hag gets you? 210 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:11,640 No. 211 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:12,640 That's why you get knives in the board. 212 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:13,640 What if anyone's ever gotten by it? 213 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Yeah. 214 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,280 You got to sleep with the nails piece. 215 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,280 Why didn't they try that with Freddy Kruger? 216 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,640 That's such a good point. 217 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Yeah. 218 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,960 I didn't even think about that watching Freddy Kruger. 219 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,800 It's the people dealing with the fucking hag that thought about it. 220 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,000 So what are the symptoms of sleep paralysis? 221 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,840 Scientists have found that sleep paralysis can include a number of common symptoms which 222 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:43,120 include the inability to move, speak or breathe properly, hypnogogic hallucinations or visions 223 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,520 that happen while you're falling asleep, hypnopompic hallucinations or visions that 224 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:55,120 happen when you're waking up, auditory hallucinations or imagining sounds, olfactory hallucinations 225 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,280 and imagining cells, a sense of heaviness or pressure on your chest, feeling of being 226 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:06,040 watched or touched sometimes in a threatening or sexual manner and fear. 227 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:11,400 Personally after reading that I think there's something more at play here but I think we'll 228 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,320 get into that a little more towards the end. 229 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,120 There are other paranormal creatures exactly like this. 230 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,000 Same thing all over the world. 231 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:27,080 So let's jump on our air balloon and take a trip around the world of just a few that 232 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,520 I put together and there are far too many to include in this one episode so I just picked 233 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,200 some that are pretty good. 234 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,760 Not that they're not all good. 235 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:41,840 In Scandinavian folklore sleep paralysis is caused by a mare which is a supernatural 236 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,680 creature related to incubi and succubi. 237 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:51,040 The mare is a damned woman who is cursed and her body is carried mysteriously during sleep 238 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,120 and without her noticing. 239 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:59,320 In this state she visits villagers to sit on their ribcages while they are asleep causing 240 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,600 them to experience nightmares. 241 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,840 The Swedish film Mary Ann examines the folklore surrounding sleep paralysis. 242 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,680 Yeah and in fact that's where we derive the term nightmare from. 243 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:11,680 Yes. 244 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,120 That would be a good point thank you for saying that. 245 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,120 I meant to. 246 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,880 You kind of did it just wasn't directly stated. 247 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,320 I meant to say that but then I didn't. 248 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,960 In Fiji the experience is interpreted as canna to Voro. 249 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,240 You're going to have some good words that I'm going to say in their exact pronunciation 250 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,560 coming up and that's just a explicit content warning. 251 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,400 So canna to Voro being eaten by a demon. 252 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,400 In many cases the demon can be the spirit of a recently dead relative who has come back 253 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,800 for some unfinished business or has come to communicate some important news to the living. 254 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:53,680 Human persons sleeping near the afflicted persons say canna eat in an attempt to prolong 255 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,680 the possession for a chance to converse with the dead relative or spirit and seek answers 256 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,000 as to why he or she has come back. 257 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:06,160 The person waking up from the experience is often asked to immediately curse or chase 258 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,160 the spirit of the dead relative which sometimes involves literally speaking to the spirit 259 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,720 and telling him or her to go away or using expletives. 260 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,680 Wait no seriously. 261 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,840 You have to say hey spirit go fuck yourself. 262 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,160 Get the fuck out of here. 263 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,760 I guess yeah you gotta be intimidating. 264 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,360 You gotta be intimidating. 265 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,120 You gotta be aggressive. 266 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,360 You gotta use those words. 267 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:37,960 In Albanian folk beliefs Mokhti is believed to be a male spirit with a golden fez hat 268 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,160 who appears to women who are usually tired or suffering and stops them from moving. 269 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,240 It is believed that if they can take his golden hat he will grant them a wish but then he 270 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,680 will visit them frequently although he is harmless. 271 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:57,760 There are talismans that can provide protection from Mokhti and one way is to put one's husband's 272 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,000 hat near the pillow while sleeping. 273 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,240 Mokhti or Bakhti in Albanian means nightmare. 274 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:10,920 In Nigeria ISP appears to be far more common and recurrent among people in African descent 275 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,800 than among whites or Nigerian Africans. 276 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:14,800 ISP. 277 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:21,520 I mean I get SP sleep paralysis and is often referred to within African communities as 278 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,640 the devil on your back and is called anow by the Housa people. 279 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,840 That's an interesting point. 280 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:34,960 In Turkey sleep paralysis is called Karabassan and is similar to other stories of demonic 281 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,480 visitation during sleep. 282 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:42,280 A supernatural being commonly known as the Jinn comes to the victim's room, holds him 283 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:48,880 or her down hard enough to not allow any kind of movement and starts to strangle the person. 284 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:56,240 To get rid of the demonic creature one needs to pray to Allah by reading Al-Falak and Al-Nas 285 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:57,360 from the Quran. 286 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,600 In some derivatives of the story the Jinn has a wide hat and if the person can show the 287 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,760 courage and take its hat the Jinn becomes his slave. 288 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Just the first time in a while actually Jinn have come up on the podcast. 289 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,640 It's funny because it seems like in Middle Eastern cultures pretty much all of them just 290 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,360 explain everything as Jinn. 291 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,360 They do. 292 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,520 Yeah the Jinn are really interesting. 293 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:18,520 They are. 294 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,160 That one had a bit of multiple crossovers because the Jinn also had a hat which is a 295 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,680 point I've never heard. 296 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,680 Yeah it's funny. 297 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,560 I feel like we used to bring up Jinn a lot more in like seasons one and two. 298 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,520 It feels like it's been a long time since they've come up. 299 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,520 It has. 300 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,000 This is a first mention of a Jinn in a while. 301 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,680 I still don't think we'll do its own episode in a while. 302 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,280 No there's too many good episodes out there. 303 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,720 It and Jinn is a really good podcast on there. 304 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,720 It is. 305 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,720 We covered it really well. 306 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:51,040 In Thailand, Cambodia and Laos it is believed that sleep paralysis and discomfort is caused 307 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,920 by a ghost of the Thai folklore known as P.M. and then here they have an entire script 308 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:57,920 which um. 309 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,760 Oh man that's an adventure right there. 310 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,600 Yeah it looks beautiful. 311 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Some people claim that the spirit may even cause bruises. 312 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,600 Stories about the spirit are common in Thai comics. 313 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,680 It is described as an event in which the person is sleeping and dreams that one or more ghostly 314 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,400 figures are nearby or even holding him or her down. 315 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Sufferers unable to move or make any noises. 316 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:25,600 This is not to be confused with P.Kow or Khmut Jewel which is ghost possession. 317 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:26,960 Of course we would never. 318 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,920 Man I really want to learn about the P.Kow. 319 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,920 Yeah. 320 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:30,920 It's a good name. 321 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,320 It's exactly what it is too. 322 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,320 It's a cow peeing. 323 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:34,320 Yeah. 324 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,320 It's interesting. 325 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,320 Yeah. 326 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:44,160 In Eastern Chinese folklore it is thought that a mouse can steal human breath at night. 327 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,360 Human breath strengthens the mouse allowing it longevity and the ability to. 328 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:50,360 You're saying mouse? 329 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:51,760 Yeah I said mouse. 330 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:52,760 Like Mickey Mouse? 331 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:53,760 Okay. 332 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,920 Yeah this is English so I am reading it correctly and hopefully pronouncing it correctly. 333 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:05,400 Human breath strengthens the mouse allowing it longevity and the ability to briefly become 334 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,480 human at night. 335 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:12,080 In a similar fashion to Fox spirits the mouse sits near the person's face or under their 336 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,280 nostrils. 337 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:21,720 In Chinese culture sleep paralysis is widely known as pinion we yesh en or oh no pinion 338 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:22,880 means something. 339 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:28,440 No pinion is what it's just the name of the English version the Romanized alphabet Chinese. 340 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:33,480 Okay I noticed that that was probably not something I needed to read because it says 341 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,600 it after every Chinese character thing when. 342 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,960 Yeah no that's just pinion so that's those words written in English. 343 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:48,360 Learn something new or we yeah twang which literally translates into ghost pressing on 344 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:50,800 body or ghost pressing on bed. 345 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,200 Huh so they came up with the same kind of term. 346 00:18:53,200 --> 00:19:00,080 A more modern term is mengyan and you can bet that is not pronounced right I'm sorry 347 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,440 about that one I will fully admit it. 348 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:03,440 Maybe for legal purposes I should. 349 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,480 And Chelsea we're trying to go after the Chinese market so hard why. 350 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Yes we are so for legal purposes I cannot admit that that is not correct. 351 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,840 Oh that was nice of me to pronounce it so nicely. 352 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:24,600 In Japanese culture sleep paralysis is referred to as kanashibari literally bound or fastened 353 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:25,840 in metal. 354 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,600 This term is occasionally used by English speaking authors to refer to the phenomenon 355 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,440 both in academic papers and in pop psych literature that was a weird one. 356 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:41,600 In Korean culture sleep paralysis is called gaoi nelim literally being pressed down by 357 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,880 something scary in a dream. 358 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,120 I like that one. 359 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,120 I love Korean beautiful language. 360 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,680 Yeah it's so concise. 361 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,960 Korea has the best demons too like there's a there's a fan demon because if you keep 362 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,200 your fan on at night it will kill you because there's a demon in it. 363 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:04,920 I do like that I love that there's inanimate objects either that just like have so yeah 364 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:05,920 and do things. 365 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,440 And mice they're just stealing your breath which also just if we can go back to that 366 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,760 for a second I'm wondering if that has anything to do with the carbon monoxide poisoning in 367 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,600 that if something can't breathe it will go up higher from carbon monoxide poisoning if 368 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,280 it might be that like there was a mouse on them that was trying to escape it and that's 369 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,280 where that comes from. 370 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:29,600 It's an interesting way to take that could be why did you go to carbon monoxide poisoning? 371 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,480 Because that's how you die in your sleep it like it takes your breath. 372 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,160 You can't breathe okay you're right right it's not because you're at the bottom of the 373 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,720 ocean because we just found out there's oxygen there. 374 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:39,720 There's lots of oxygen. 375 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,720 Tons of it. 376 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,280 So the miners get there. 377 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,160 They didn't have to deal with it at this time though because this is the new phenomenon 378 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,760 to the miners. 379 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:54,880 Okay Korean it is often associated with the belief that a ghost or spirit is lying on 380 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,400 top of or pressing down on the sufferer. 381 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,560 In Mongolian culture nightmares is general as well as sleep paralysis is referred to 382 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:11,320 by the verb phrase cardorak meaning to be pressed by the black or one of the dark presses. 383 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,200 Kara means black and may refer to the dark side personified. 384 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,240 Karen Buu means shaman of the black. 385 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,640 Shamans of the dark side only survive in far northern Mongolia. 386 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,160 Interesting that sounds like an episode. 387 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,880 That does it also sounds like the Hague does it not? 388 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,280 Yeah like what? 389 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,280 You might have to look into that. 390 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,480 We're gonna have to look into that not in this episode though. 391 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:47,400 Well Sagan Zugin Buu means shaman of the white direction referring to shamans who only invoke 392 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,360 benevolent spirits. 393 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:55,760 Compare Karabassan the dark presser in Turkish which may date from pre-islamic times when 394 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,560 the Turks had the same religion and mythology of the Mongols. 395 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,720 I need to look into this more. 396 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,920 That sounded so interesting. 397 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,160 Sounds like they're actually talking about shamans though. 398 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,840 Why did they only survive in far north? 399 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,040 That is a really interesting part of it. 400 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,920 Yeah okay let's take a listen to that. 401 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,920 See if you can turn it into a whole episode. 402 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:26,120 In Tibetan culture sleep paralysis is often known as dip naan or dip fok as oppressed 403 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,560 struck by dip. 404 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,960 Dip literally meaning shadow refers to a kind of spiritual pollution. 405 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,920 I like the Tibetan one too. 406 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,920 It fok. 407 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,440 Is there any culture that I didn't mention that you would be interested in? 408 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,280 I don't think we've had any South American. 409 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,440 Let's see if we can. 410 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,480 We have Africa, Europe, America's. 411 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,280 No I don't think I have South America on here. 412 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,600 Okay do you have any indigenous men? 413 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,600 I don't know. 414 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:58,000 I have a few more things to say about North America but let me just see what I have in 415 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000 here. 416 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,000 In Pakistan sleep paralysis is considered an encounter with Shaitan. 417 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,080 Real jens or demons who have taken over one's body. 418 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,120 A school is known as back tack. 419 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:14,920 It also assumed that it's caused by black magic performed by enemies and jealous people. 420 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,880 People especially children and young girls wear... 421 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,880 Oops. 422 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,600 ...to ward off evil eye. 423 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,880 Spells, incantations, and curses could also result in ghouls haunting a person. 424 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,600 Some homes and places are also believed to be haunted by evil ghosts, satanic or other 425 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:36,320 supernatural beings and they could haunt people living there especially during the night. 426 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:44,080 Muslim holy persons, imams, sufis, mullahs, fakirs perform exorcism on individuals who 427 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,680 are believed to be possessed. 428 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:51,320 The homes, houses, buildings, and grounds are blessed and consecrated by mullahs or imams 429 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:57,480 by reciting Quran and Adhan, the Islamic call to prayer recited by the musin. 430 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,720 Basically, it has a bunch of Middle Eastern, Western, and Central Asia. 431 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,760 They basically all believe it's the jinn. 432 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,360 They just call it all different things. 433 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,720 Same with a lot of African countries. 434 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,240 Well, Islam a lot of it's the jinn. 435 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,920 We covered a lot of Europe. 436 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,440 In Scottish Gaelic culture sleep paralysis is called Tromlaid, heavy lying, and this 437 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,000 term has become the general term for nightmare in the modern language. 438 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,520 In Latvian folk culture sleep paralysis is called a torture or strangling by leotuvans. 439 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:36,400 It's thought to be a soul of a killed, which is a strangled, drowned, or hung person and 440 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,200 attacks both people and domestic animals. 441 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:45,200 When under attack, one must move the toe on the left foot to get rid of the attacker. 442 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,120 And just circling back to the Americas where we are, just some interesting facts. 443 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,200 During the Salem witch trial, several people reported night attacks by various alleged 444 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,120 witches including Bridget Bishop that may have been caused by sleep paralysis. 445 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,840 In Mexico, it's believed that it's caused by the spirit of a dead person. 446 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,360 This ghost lies down upon the body of the sleeper, rendering them unable to move. 447 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:14,920 People refer to this as a subirse el muerto, which is a dead person on you. 448 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:22,000 And in Brazil, there's a legend about a mythological being called the Pisedeira, she who sleeps. 449 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,080 She is described as a tall, skinny, old woman with long, dirty nails and dried toes, white 450 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,260 tangled hair along nose, staring red eyes, and greenish teeth. 451 00:25:32,260 --> 00:25:36,400 She lives over the roofs, waiting to step on the chest of those who sleep with a full 452 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,400 stomach. 453 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,400 Oh, what a twist. 454 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,800 That's an interesting little tidbit of go to sleep hungry. 455 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,800 Yes. 456 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,000 So that's our trip around the world where we've made it back in our hot air balloon 457 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,000 now. 458 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,640 And now it's time for my favorite part, which is encounters. 459 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,800 User Coast Guardman comments this, it happened to me twice. 460 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,280 The last time I was home on leave and asleep in my old bed, I woke up suddenly. 461 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,440 I'm a light sleeper, knowing full well that somebody or something was behind me. 462 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,040 I was sleeping on my right side and it wanted to do me harm. 463 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,840 I tried to shout out, but couldn't, I tried to turn over, but couldn't. 464 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,040 I had the worst sense of dread that I never experienced ever during hurricanes and major 465 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,120 ship fires. 466 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:24,960 I got mad since if whatever was behind me wanted to kill me, I wanted to face it and 467 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,360 not wanting it to harm or kill me with my back turned. 468 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:32,040 I forced myself as hard as I could to turn and suddenly I could. 469 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,280 Nothing was there. 470 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,240 That was over 50 years ago and I can still remember the dread and the need to meet my 471 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,120 executioner as a man. 472 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,880 The Higgs are bad. 473 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,720 But they didn't execute him. 474 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,720 No. 475 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,720 That's it. 476 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:45,720 They're not that bad. 477 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,920 Because you can't do something with that man. 478 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,600 User Process Creative 5306. 479 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,680 I had an episode of sleep paralysis. 480 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,520 I had been sleeping on my stomach. 481 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,480 I woke to hear my roommate in the room and my boyfriend at the window calling me. 482 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,320 I heard the witch laughing slash screaming. 483 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,960 It was wide awake, but could not move. 484 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,320 I said the name of Jesus leave me alone several times that was my first and last time ever 485 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,760 experiencing this. 486 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,080 I have seen a witch during a patrol at my job. 487 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,560 She disappeared as fast as she appeared. 488 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,560 I watched her. 489 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:24,480 She never attempted to advance towards me nor did she speak or scream at me or near me. 490 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,040 I think the other things kept her from coming near me. 491 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,160 I have seen other things and I had a dream that this witch lives in a mountain and feeding 492 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960 off the fear of others helps her. 493 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,440 That was a weird one. 494 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,760 User Lividvanilla6227. 495 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,840 Various types of hags from around the world appear during sleep paralysis. 496 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,520 I had my first sleep paralysis happen to me when I was 19. 497 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,000 I was sleeping in my grandma's living room on an air mattress. 498 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,640 I couldn't move, but I could hear something take the screen door off the window behind 499 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,080 me, then open the window and climb inside. 500 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,080 Oh interesting. 501 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080 This is a little more. 502 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,080 Yeah. 503 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,640 It got behind me so close I could feel its breath on the back of my neck. 504 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,520 I tried to screen but couldn't. 505 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,520 There was a noise from somewhere else in the house and the creature quickly left and shut 506 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,520 the window behind it. 507 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:21,120 When it was lights out, I noticed the screen door from the window was off and lying on 508 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:22,520 the ground outside. 509 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,560 Researching this years later it looks like it might have been a boo hag. 510 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:32,040 A hag that looks and acts like a normal person but takes off its skin before feeding on sleeping 511 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,680 victims at night. 512 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:34,680 What? 513 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,680 Interesting. 514 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,680 Yeah, hold on. 515 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,680 Let me highlight that too. 516 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,760 I'm finding a few things that I have to go back to in this episode. 517 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,720 It's interesting you never hear obituaries where they say like they passed peacefully 518 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,200 in the night and were also partially consumed. 519 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Yeah. 520 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,840 No, I'm not reading obituaries. 521 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,960 That's a fair point. 522 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,240 I don't read them as much as I should I guess. 523 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,920 You imagine if like somebody like knock on wood, I have to preface this with my statement 524 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:01,920 with that. 525 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,440 Like somebody at work or like someone like basic acquaintance like passes away and you 526 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,600 read the eulogy or is that what it's called? 527 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:13,600 Obituary. 528 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,840 Obituary and it's like I died in their sleep and they were found half eaten. 529 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,560 Would you be like what the fuck Jim? 530 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,040 What was going on in your life? 531 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,520 Yeah, I can't say I would know how I would react to that. 532 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,960 No, I can't say so either. 533 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,480 Never happened yet. 534 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,760 So use her to lead. 535 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,240 Never experienced the old hag, but three nights ago I did experience sleep paralysis, but 536 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,480 instead of the old hag, it was a young four year old girl. 537 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,640 Oh, this one was weird. 538 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,880 I dreamt she walked into my room asking for help and I got up to help her. 539 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,040 Next thing I knew, how did he know she was the word? 540 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,520 Next thing I knew, I was face down suspended over the staircase floating and the little 541 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,400 girl was below me holding my hands laughing hysterically. 542 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,960 At that point I was awake, my eyes weren't open, but I could move my body. 543 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,960 I tried to shake myself out of it and couldn't. 544 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,560 I cut my palms from my nails because my hands were clenched so tight as if I was holding 545 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,720 a child's hand and I couldn't breathe. 546 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,280 I was like it for what felt like hours. 547 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:20,200 If it wasn't for my cat having sent something was wrong and jumping on my face, I didn't 548 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,080 know how long I would have stayed in that state for. 549 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,520 It was the most terrifying thing to ever happen in my life. 550 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,440 She was floating in the middle of the stairs and the cat jumped on her or she woke back 551 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,440 up in her bed with the cat jumping on her. 552 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,400 It sounds like it was an out of body experience. 553 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,320 Yeah, that was like that's distinctly different than most old hags because she still had control 554 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:40,320 over her body. 555 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,400 Yeah, I think if I ever experienced it again or experienced the old hag, I would probably 556 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,080 never sleep alone again. 557 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,320 I don't know that I would necessarily say that's the old hag. 558 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,480 It sounds like a weird one though, which got left in for some reason. 559 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,320 User Hunt guy, I was sleeping on my back, which I never knew. 560 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,720 Something I found funny about the Reddit encounters is a lot of them stated how they 561 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,720 were sleeping. 562 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,280 Yeah, I find that really odd. 563 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,520 It sounds like they're attributing it to the way they fell asleep that time. 564 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,360 It does seem like that, doesn't it? 565 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,960 Which I guess if it's truly a traumatic experience, you're going to try to prevent it and maybe 566 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,320 you're just grasping at straws as to what it was. 567 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,720 Anything doesn't mean it could not happen again. 568 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,720 Yeah. 569 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,720 No, and sorry, actually to draw it back, did that way of like killing the old hag, did 570 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,200 it not specifically say you had to fall asleep on your back? 571 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,480 Yes, but I think that was more related to sleeping with the cat up to be able to kill 572 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,480 her. 573 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Yeah, but at the same time, you could put that on your back and I'm wondering if it 574 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,960 is she'll be summoned because like she sits on your chest. 575 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,480 Oh yeah, good point. 576 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,480 It was not that specific. 577 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,480 But somebody said they slept on their stomach. 578 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,480 It would have to be all yours there. 579 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,480 Yeah. 580 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:49,480 You did. 581 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,440 You're not safe just in general. 582 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,680 I was sleeping on my back, which I never do. 583 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,760 And I remember punching in a dream state with my arm slightly before it happened like five 584 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,400 to six times really fast. 585 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,560 And I don't know why. 586 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,560 What? 587 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,240 Hope it makes sense the more I read. 588 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,960 And moments later, I remember opening my eyes and seeing the shadow of a tall entity with 589 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,440 a white shawl or throw over or something that draped to the floor. 590 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,480 And all I could see was a small dark shadow where the head would be. 591 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,720 I knew it was sleep paralysis. 592 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,600 And I heard one person say he just concentrated all his will to move his arm. 593 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,080 So I tried that and I remember just staring at my arm trying to get it to move, but it 594 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,760 wouldn't, which kind of panicked me more. 595 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,720 I've never felt the sensation of being completely paralyzed, not to mention with a dark figure 596 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,000 looming over me. 597 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,480 The entity walked around the side of the bed and out of my sight. 598 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,120 And then I started to panic. 599 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,720 I breathing sped up to a super rapid pace with a short shallow breath and I'm assuming 600 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,560 this is where my heart rate peaked. 601 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640 I knew none of it was real, but it was still scary as shit. 602 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,960 I just closed my eyes and tried to relax, tried to remind myself that what was going 603 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,120 on, my mind waking up before my body a few moments later, it was all over. 604 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,400 I'll be a little difficult to get back to sleep. 605 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:10,040 And I'm going to end the episode on this Reddit user because that I think it will be 606 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:17,360 a good talking point to let us just, you know, say what we each think is going on. 607 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,480 This is user deleted and he says, he, she says, it could be a moth person. 608 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,080 And after I was working as a firefighter and sleeping strange hours, I would get sleep 609 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,680 paralysis on occasion. 610 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,920 I know the belief is that the dreaming brain is just integrating real world events we see 611 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,200 with our open eyes with this creative dream world. 612 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:43,000 I found it amazing that the brain could generate these horrible images in real time so convincingly. 613 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,600 It also gave me much more compassion for people having psychotic breaks and understanding 614 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,840 how real hallucinations could seem. 615 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,040 The brain is insanely powerful in convincing us of the reality we are in. 616 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,760 The events I experienced were also so similar to the reported sleep paralysis events that 617 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:04,080 I wondered why the sleep paralysis is nearly always the same even between strangers, even 618 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,020 in different times and cultures. 619 00:34:06,020 --> 00:34:09,400 Is it some kind of programming bug of the human brain? 620 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,600 Maybe we're all seeing something our brain normally filters out and it's terrifying. 621 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,440 I've never heard of people having sleep paralysis that is like our normal dream state where 622 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,080 we end up in a classroom with no pants on, being giving a test we didn't study for 623 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,720 or any other stock normal dream we can experience. 624 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:31,800 It's always some negative intended being creeping up on us aware of our terror and enjoying 625 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,800 it. 626 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,040 It's not a bad or even read about a sleep paralysis episode that is funny or entertaining 627 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,320 as dreams can be. 628 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,920 Our brains filter out the bulk of the data it is provided from moment to moment. 629 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,000 Science confirms this. 630 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,760 Are the beings we see or feel in sleep paralysis episodes just part of that deleted information? 631 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,320 Some terrifying thing that can't directly affect us so our brains just filter them out 632 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,520 nearly all the time except for those odd mixed consciousness states. 633 00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,520 I don't know. 634 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,640 I know that simply by never sleeping on my back I stopped having sleep paralysis is strange 635 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,040 but that stopped and interesting. 636 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,840 Yeah, they all they all seem to mention it. 637 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,640 So yeah, I think that's a really good talking point and that's why I said I'll come back. 638 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,800 I'll circle back to it that I think that there's something more going on than what science 639 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,000 is saying because there are people that have regular sleep paralysis episodes and don't 640 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,120 see anything. 641 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:30,440 They do still from what I understand about sleep paralysis they do still feel the fear 642 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,560 because of course you can't move so panic obviously sets in because you don't know what's going 643 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,560 on. 644 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,200 However, user deleted brings up a good point because they say your brain's still dreaming 645 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,200 but why is it so uniform that they call it the old haig? 646 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,680 I've never seen or encountered any entities like this in my dreams knock on what I better 647 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:53,680 not ever. 648 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,880 They're the most part right and then all of a sudden it's just a uniform thing that's 649 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,200 happening where people are experiencing entities that are in the room with them and they say 650 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:10,560 that it's as real as you know being awake they just can't move like they're in the room 651 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:11,960 exact room. 652 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,320 I don't know about you but I don't dream like that. 653 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,760 I don't dream about waking up in the exact room that I'm sleeping on because it's dream 654 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,760 logic and like nothing ever makes sense. 655 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,480 I'm never dreaming of the exact room I'm sleeping on where it feels like I've woken up. 656 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,480 Really? 657 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,680 I've had lots of those where it feels like it's the same room. 658 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,680 Really? 659 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,720 Yeah it's just there's other things about it once the dream keeps going that make it 660 00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:37,440 very clear you're not in the same room. 661 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,040 Like just last night I had a dream that was really weird it was just I could not remember 662 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,440 where I parked my car. 663 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,960 It was a terrible experience. 664 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,080 You dream about regular world things but it's such like dreams are ridiculous they always 665 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,320 have dream logic. 666 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,200 It's not like it's not just me waking up and being like in the same exact room feeling 667 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,240 like it's I do feel dreams are real. 668 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:05,680 I'm also a little bit different of a dreamer because I sleepwalk so I literally will wake 669 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,240 up see what's going on around me but I'm dreaming and I will interact so maybe I'm not the one 670 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,360 to be talking but if we're talking in the sense of that then yes like I wake up and 671 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,480 I'm in the room dreaming with it around me and I'm interacting with it but yeah I think 672 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,160 it's so funny not funny terrifying. 673 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,880 This is a creature that just seems to be uniform all over the world so I personally think that 674 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:32,880 it's something else. 675 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,480 Yeah I wonder if it's just a deep-seated thing that like it's part of all human experience 676 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,280 and not a cultural based thing. 677 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,800 It's kind of like pretty much every culture whether or not you interact with other cultures 678 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,560 everybody seems to be scared of spiders. 679 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,880 It's just a universal thing because it's a required trait to survive. 680 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:52,880 Snakes yeah. 681 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,560 Yeah certain things like that and I'm wondering if it's just one of those deep-seated human 682 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,960 psyche things that's necessary to survive and there's a fear in there but it's an old lady 683 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,280 or an old medicine person for the most part so that doesn't make sense but dreams also 684 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,280 don't make sense. 685 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,280 No they don't. 686 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,280 Yeah it's truly bizarre. 687 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,080 It's an instinct and I guess it would be an instinct right? 688 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,280 Yeah and in any event it's clear that we universally are scared of old ladies. 689 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,280 Oh yeah. 690 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,280 Can't trust them. 691 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,280 You gotta swear at them. 692 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,280 Yeah you guys. 693 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,280 And if you did anything from this part yeah. 694 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:24,280 That's the way for this episode. 695 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,680 Two things sleep on your stomach swear at old ladies. 696 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,240 Oh yeah you gotta. 697 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:33,360 You gotta that's just how it goes and I think that's a perfect spot to end off. 698 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,960 I have been Taylor here with Chelsea and we are Journey to the Fringe thank you all for 699 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,960 listening and we'll see you next week. 700 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,960 Bye. 701 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,720 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 702 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:49,760 If you have liked what you have listened to please like, share, subscribe or follow 703 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,080 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 704 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:59,240 Also please if possible leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 705 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:04,040 Should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your social media of choice. 706 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,680 I bet you we are there and if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas 707 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,040 for new episodes or tell us that we are wrong and terrible either way please send us an 708 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,160 email at Journey to the Fringe at gmail.com. 709 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:38,920 For now I'll see you in the next episode.