1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,800 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,920 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where one times one has not yet been discussed 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,040 much to the dismay of Terrence Howard. 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,160 At the recording this episode, fairly topical. 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,840 Joke, so maybe one or two of you will get it. 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,760 The rest of you can look up who Terrence Howard is, what the hell that is. 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:34,520 We are your podcast host, Taylor and Chelsea, here today to give you a background on the 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:42,400 cultural phenomenon that is grey aliens, the history of it and just an overall synopsis 9 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,240 of why it is that we are talking about greys or for the most part when we say picture an 10 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,640 alien that we're all going to have the same idea in our mind. 11 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,880 Oh I'm excited about this. 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,400 Chelsea, surprisingly we're going to start well before the idea of greys in this episode 13 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,160 and I'm talking well before the start of that, but are you ready for it? 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,000 Give me a second. 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,480 I'm ready about the greys. 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,480 Okay, perfect. 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,800 I just want to start first and foremost so that I want to make sure we're all picturing 18 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:12,800 the same thing. 19 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,080 So greys are typically depicted, the main alien that people talk about, as soon as you say 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,880 close your eyes, like if an alien this is what you're going to see. 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,880 A greyskinned humanoid who's missing parts such as noses, ears or sex organs, just basically 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,800 anatomically incorrect plush doll like that. 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,240 And their bodies are usually depicted as being elongated having a small chest, lacking 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,280 muscular definition, invisible skeleton structure, and their legs are depicted as being shorter 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,200 and jointed differently than humans with limbs portionally different from a human. 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,440 Greys are also depicted as having unusually large heads and proportionate to their bodies 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,160 with no hair on their body, and no noticeable outer ears or noses, sometimes with small 28 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,880 openings or orifice for ears and nostrils. 29 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,120 So that is- 30 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,280 Large black eyes right? 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,200 Large black eyes, almond shape. 32 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,880 Large black eyes and I think they are spotted as being both short and tall? 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,440 Yes, and that might come up a little later, but for the most part we're going to talk 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:10,240 large head, no real features on the face other than the large eyes and maybe slits for noses 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:11,240 and mouths. 36 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:17,120 And can I put here or will it come up a lot of people would say that they're like androids? 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,240 That's not going to come up at all just so you know because I'm trying to keep it of 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,800 just where this idea comes from and not people's beliefs in what they are. 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,040 Okay, well then I just put it out there for your consumption whether or not you accept 40 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,040 it is. 41 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Sure, why not. 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Chelsea, where do you think I'm going to start this episode? 43 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,760 I'm going to go with like creation. 44 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,400 Okay, a little far. 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,280 I'm in fact going to start it- 46 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Too far, I thought you're going to say not far enough. 47 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,640 Yeah, not far enough, no too far, at least as far as I'm concerned. 48 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:51,880 We're just going to start this episode in ancient Greece where we're going to talk about 49 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,400 the idea of aliens and themselves and the fact that we really- 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,000 That's where it comes from? 51 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,480 No, we didn't believe in aliens at that time. 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,680 So I'm just saying that this is like, and sorry, we are taking out of this, there are 53 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,560 theories that there are ancient peoples who believed in alien visitation, Hopi Indians 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,400 or Hopi indigenous peoples in Southwest US that could be an episode in itself. 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,840 They have supposedly in their rich history alien visitation as well as cave drawings 56 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,560 that may or may not depict great like beings. 57 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,000 We're not going to be talking about those. 58 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,960 We're going to be talking about kind of a European look at belief in extraterrestrial 59 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,960 life. 60 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,600 So Greeks believed and this is coming straight from Aristotle. 61 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,880 Didn't write anything down so he had to have his students write about his stuff. 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,720 We're sorry, I get them backwards, he might have written things down anyhow. 63 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,880 He believed the earth was the innermost sphere in a universe or world surrounded by various 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,040 other spheres containing the moon, sun, planet and stars. 65 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,120 Those heavenly spheres crystalline and transparent, rotated about the earthly core comprising 66 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,600 four elements, fire, air, water and earth. 67 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,600 I like that concept. 68 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,640 Yeah, and it makes for better TV that are normal lives anyways and people can harness 69 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:01,640 those. 70 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,200 Those elements layered themselves on the basis of their essence or nature as earth's natural 71 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:11,320 place was at the middle of the cosmos which was why solid matter fell to the ground seeking 72 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,840 the inaccessible center far and below. 73 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,280 On the basis of this principle, Aristotle decided that it was an impossibility for other 74 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:20,440 worlds and life to exist. 75 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,640 If some other world existed, its matter would seek both the center of its world and of our 76 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,280 world as well and such opposite imperatives pose a logical contradiction in his mind. 77 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:34,920 And he also applied further reasoning to point out that there is no space outside the known 78 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,720 world for any other world to occupy. 79 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,000 So Aristotle concludes, two worlds cannot both exist. 80 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,800 It is just our world and therefore there's nothing living outside it. 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,800 There was apparently some pushback or some debate on this and some Greeks disagreed with 82 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:50,800 Aristotle's interpretation. 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Hey, but guess what? 84 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,920 I was like the four Greek people's names you know, Aristotle's one of them. 85 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,920 So guess what we believe for the most part going forward, Aristotle. 86 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,840 Yeah, there's only a handful of Greek people that I wouldn't know to name. 87 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:05,920 And they're probably all in a direct line around Aristotle. 88 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Plato, Aristotle, Socrates. 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,640 They're all like a direct line of each other. 90 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,520 And Zeus is Greek too, right? 91 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,680 Well, he's a god. 92 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,600 He might not have existed. 93 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:22,280 Sorry, spoiler there on 4000 year old mythology. 94 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,760 I can go back and edit in a spoiler alert so people can jump ahead. 95 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Don't worry. 96 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,280 Anyhow, because Aristotle said this, this kind of carries forward all the way into medieval 97 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:32,280 Europe. 98 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,240 By the 13th century, Aristotle's writings have been rediscovered in medieval Europe 99 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,160 for the Renaissance and most scholars defended his position. 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:45,400 And in fact, in 1277, the Bishop of Paris, Etienne Tempier, he banned scholars from teaching 101 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:51,920 over 200, no, exactly not over 219 principles, many associated with Aristotle's philosophy. 102 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,280 And among the prohibited teachings on this list was item 34 that God could not create 103 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,440 as many worlds as he wanted to. 104 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,440 And since the penalty for violating this decree was excommunication from the church, Persian 105 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,960 scholars suddenly discovered rationales allowing multiple worlds empowering God to defy Aristotle's 106 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:10,960 logic. 107 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,480 And since Paris was the intellectual capital of the European world, scholars elsewhere 108 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,000 followed the Persian lead. 109 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,480 So from here, while several philosophers asserted God could make many worlds, most intimated 110 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,000 that he probably wouldn't have bothered. 111 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,320 And hardly anyone addressed the likelihood of alien life, although there are two Jean 112 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,800 Buridan in Paris and William of Occam in Oxford considered the possibility. 113 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,560 Here's a quote from them, God could produce an infinite number of individuals of the same 114 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,920 kind as those that now exist. 115 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,440 But he is not limited to producing them in this world. 116 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:44,440 End quote. 117 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,800 Populated worlds showed up more prominently in writings by the renegade thinkers Nicholas 118 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:55,880 of Cusa from 1401 to 1464 and Giordano Bruno 1548 to 1600. 119 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,800 They argued not only for the existence of other worlds, but also for worlds inhabited 120 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,680 by beings just like or maybe better than Earth's humans. 121 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,680 No. 122 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:05,680 Yeah. 123 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,280 And you gotta realize this is all happening pre Darwin. 124 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,880 So the idea of evolution and particularly things happening in different natural environments 125 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,880 wouldn't be an idea that people contemplate. 126 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,080 So if they're thinking of God creating beings on another planet, it's just going to be humans. 127 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,800 So if anybody at this point thinks there's extra trust in your life, they're literally 128 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,000 just thinking humans or smarter humans. 129 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,000 Okay. 130 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 It doesn't sound like anybody's thinking that. 131 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,920 Well these two are Bruno and Cusa. 132 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:32,920 Right. 133 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:33,920 Here's a quote from Nicholas of Cusa. 134 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:34,920 I did. 135 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,160 In every region, inhabitants of diverse nobility of nature proceed from God, wrote Nicholas, 136 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,240 who argued that space had no center and therefore the Earth could not be central or privileged 137 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:45,360 with respect to life. 138 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Bruno, an Italian friar, asserted that God's perfection demanded an infinity of worlds and 139 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,320 beings. 140 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,080 Well, infinite perfection is far better presented in innumerable individuals than in those which 141 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,000 are numbered and finite. 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,000 End quote. 143 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,080 Bruno Averde burned at the stake for his critical belief so Bruno did not live to see 144 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,660 the triumph of Copernicus during the 17th century. 145 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:10,040 During that time, there were some people who believed it, but it's all from a religious 146 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,600 standpoint and again, no idea of evolution. 147 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,720 So everybody just thinks about it the same way as other people on different planets if 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:18,720 they do exist. 149 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,440 Then of course, Copernicus comes along says that, hey, where maybe Earth isn't the center 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,280 of the universe. 151 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,920 Fix everything up a little bit. 152 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,920 It's scary. 153 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,240 Eventually the idea of other worlds became no longer speculation, but astronomical fact, 154 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,440 inviting the notion of otherworldly populations as the prominent. 155 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:40,080 As a prominent, Dutch scientist Christian Huygens pointed out in the late 1600s that 156 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:45,120 quote, a man that is of Copernicus's opinion that the Earth of ours is a planet like the 157 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,560 rest of the planets cannot but sometimes think that it's not improbable that the rest of 158 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,400 the planets have their inhabitants too. 159 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,400 End quote. 160 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,840 This kind of a move from, you gotta remember, we've known about planets for a long time. 161 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,200 Venus, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus a bit. 162 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,880 So these are the planets they're talking about. 163 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,680 If we're just like those other planets, then hey, they have inhabitants too. 164 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:11,760 And that's kind of the shift that happens in the 16th, 1600s. 165 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:18,040 But again, still under the Christian idea of divine intervention is what creates life. 166 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,240 They're going to be humans. 167 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,240 Yeah. 168 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,720 Did you say what year this is? 169 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:22,920 This is in the 1600s. 170 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:23,920 1600s, okay. 171 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,440 I'm going to continue on his quote here. 172 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,800 It would be very strange that Earth was as populous as it is and the other planets weren't 173 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:31,800 at all. 174 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,320 This is just kind of becoming the belief as everything's moving. 175 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,640 Although they didn't think people could live on the sun, they did side with those who envisioned 176 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,080 inhabitants on other planets and even the moon. 177 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:46,200 Again, continuing quote, just as there have been and still are a prodigious number of 178 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,400 men foolish enough to worship the moon, there are people on the moon who worship the Earth. 179 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:51,400 End quote. 180 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,440 Early modern times onward discussion of aliens was not confined to science and philosophy. 181 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,840 They also appeared in various works of fiction, providing plot devices that remain popular 182 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:01,840 to the present day. 183 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,840 Often authors used aliens as stand-ins for evil humans to comment on current events. 184 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,520 I wonder how that would go. 185 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:13,400 Like what the speculation would be on the portraying them as evil too. 186 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:14,400 Yeah. 187 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,200 And I unfortunately, I couldn't find any direct quotes on kind of like how they were 188 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,480 portrayed at that time. 189 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,600 Where I start things off in the 1800s with writings. 190 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:29,320 This really hit a head in the late 1800s when speculation about life on Mars increases following 191 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:35,360 telescopic observation of apparent canals on Mars, which end up being an optical illusion. 192 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,600 But despite this, 1895, there's an astronomer by the name of Percival Lowell. 193 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,600 Nice name. 194 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,840 And he publishes his book, Mars Followed by Mars and Its Canals in 1906. 195 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,040 And this is him proposing that canals were the works of a long-gone civilization. 196 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,160 Now it should be noted spectroscopic analysis of the Mars atmosphere began in earnest in 197 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,520 1894 when US astronomer William Laws Campbell showed that neither water nor oxygen was present 198 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,200 in the Mars atmosphere. 199 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,200 Would they know that? 200 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,760 Basically, because you can see from the reflection of light. 201 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:04,760 Okay. 202 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,120 We know what colors and what you should see from different atmospheres coming off them 203 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,120 and what is present is in oxygen. 204 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,120 Okay. 205 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:18,520 And by 1909, better telescopes and the best perihelic opposition of Mars since 1877, 206 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,840 inclusively put an end to the idea of canals on Mars. 207 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:27,200 But around this time too, there's an idea going around Western civilization called spontaneous 208 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,880 generation, which basically says if life can exist, it will exist and it'll just spontaneously 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:33,880 occur. 210 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,640 So it was kind of assumed that everywhere there could be life, there is life. 211 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,840 This theory was disproved in the 19th century by Louis Pasteur, who, you know, famous for 212 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,640 the pasteurization, which we use for milk. 213 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,280 But yeah, up until he came along, it was absolutely common knowledge that life can just spring 214 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:51,560 up out of nowhere. 215 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:52,560 And so when we're... 216 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:53,560 And it can't. 217 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:54,560 It can't. 218 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,120 We can get a little weird with it, especially with the idea of panspermia, because basically 219 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,480 that means that life does have to come from nowhere at some point. 220 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:02,480 Oh no. 221 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,920 I'm thinking too hard about this. 222 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Okay. 223 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,160 But just because Pasteur disproved it didn't mean that people still didn't believe in spontaneous 224 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 generation and that life could pop up. 225 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,000 And it's very common knowledge at this time. 226 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,120 There are aliens on Mars. 227 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,800 This time being today, right? 228 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Because I believe that. 229 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:20,800 Okay. 230 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,800 It still does exist. 231 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Yeah. 232 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:23,800 That's a bad idea. 233 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,240 So what's the theory if it's not the theory that life can create itself then? 234 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,320 Well, you need something. 235 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,520 The idea of panspermia is in absolutely the right circumstances. 236 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:39,320 There are the genetic building blocks of life in many parts of the universe that when submitted 237 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,680 to the right situation can give rise to life. 238 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:43,680 But basically... 239 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,160 It would have to be. 240 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,960 Yeah, but it's only in the right circumstances that it would pop up. 241 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,160 Whereas the idea of spontaneous generation is it's just... 242 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,160 Everything needs to be correct. 243 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,000 Everything, everywhere is becoming life. 244 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Okay. 245 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000 Which, yeah, okay. 246 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,240 I'll agree with that. 247 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,800 The conditions need to be right. 248 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,720 But I was like, what, like how else are you going to get life if you can't create something 249 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,160 out of nothing somehow? 250 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:06,160 Okay. 251 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,240 And for the most part, popular belief in alien civilization somewhere in our solar system 252 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:15,720 remains strong until we sent probes out past Mars in the sixties. 253 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:20,200 Which debunked forever the existence of Martians and decreased the previous expectations of 254 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,000 finding alien life in general. 255 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Yeah. 256 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,480 Well, there's Martians, Venussians. 257 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,360 They all had inhabitants for a while. 258 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,360 Yeah. 259 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,520 So that's kind of how it evolved from there's no alien life out there at all to what we 260 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,960 kind of believe today for whether or not aliens can exist out there. 261 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,760 But I always find it interesting even today when people are talking about alien sightings, 262 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:44,960 they don't say grays. 263 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,800 The most common thing you're going to hear, particularly from people who are skeptical 264 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,720 is little green men, correct? 265 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:51,720 Yes. 266 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,720 But that's not what people picture at all. 267 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,960 Where the hell does that come from? 268 00:13:53,960 --> 00:14:01,440 I think it is the how they work portrayed, how people have been portrayed as experiencing 269 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,600 something with aliens, whether it be an abduction or a sighting. 270 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,280 It was the spin that the media would put on it. 271 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,360 I think something similar to how a flying saucer was coined. 272 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,160 It was people saying, you know, the little green men because everybody says that's 273 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,160 sarcastically. 274 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,400 Well, yeah, but this idea has to come from. 275 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,280 I guess it would have had to come from somewhere. 276 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,280 Yeah. 277 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,520 And this does actually have roots way back in the day. 278 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,120 I don't actually put a time on it because little green men was commonly used to describe 279 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,560 various supernatural beings and old legends and folklore fairy tales and children's books. 280 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,720 You got all of the supernatural beings in these books and all these stories are green, 281 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,520 whether you're talking goblins or ogres or monsters. 282 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,920 A lot of them are green beings. 283 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:46,480 The idea of supernatural others being green pretty much goes back to as far as our languages 284 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,480 can. 285 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:48,720 I'm learning so much. 286 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,160 During flying saucer sightings in the 1950s, this term started to become associated green 287 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,480 men as popular usage in referencing aliens when it came to UFO sightings. 288 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,200 And the use of little green men was already deeply ingrained in English at this time. 289 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,200 It also seems to have easily extended beyond the imaginary to real people. 290 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:12,560 So they would be used for actors like the little people in the Wizard of Oz. 291 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,480 And even at some point, camouflage Japanese soldiers were called little green men. 292 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:22,640 So in 1947, when Kenneth Arnold sees these UFOs, it just kind of becomes the vernacular 293 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,560 of this supernatural thing that people just used it as the modern equivalent. 294 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:28,560 Really? 295 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,560 Yeah. 296 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,320 The 1960s is really when this shifts, so little green men use vernacularly up until 297 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:40,560 the 1960s when stories that are coming out about interactions with the beings within 298 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,840 the crafts start to come out. 299 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,360 So that's for the most part, like this association is with little green men. 300 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,400 So how do we end up with the idea of the greats? 301 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,840 Well, it's the late 1800s that we're going to start with where science fiction writers 302 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,200 start to talk about gray beings. 303 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,720 There are a few around this time talking about it, but the most prominent is H.G. Wells, 304 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,040 who wrote in 1893 in the Man of the Year Million. 305 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:12,520 He writes what he projects humanity to evolve into and basically just calls them great skinned 306 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,160 beings with enlarged heads and eyes. 307 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,360 That's the first time. 308 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,720 There are a few right around that time, but he's the most prominent. 309 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:20,720 That's pretty cool. 310 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,960 H.G. Wells also talks about them in his book, The Time Machine with the Morlocks, who are 311 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,720 the highly evolved humans in the future. 312 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,000 And then in 1933, there's a book by a man named Gustav Sandgren. 313 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,840 It's called The Unknown Danger and he writes this. 314 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,640 It's about an extraterrestrial species. 315 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,560 The creatures did not resemble any race of humans. 316 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,840 They were short, shorter than the average Japanese, and their heads were big and bald 317 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,200 with strong square foreheads and very small noses and mouth and weak chins. 318 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,600 What was most extraordinary about them were the eyes, large, dark, gleaming with a sharp 319 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:55,600 gaze. 320 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,520 They're clothes made of soft gray fabric and their limbs seem to be familiar to those 321 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,520 of humans. 322 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,280 So, he's really talking about these big headed creatures. 323 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:04,280 And weirdly enough... 324 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,480 You picture a gray when he says that. 325 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,480 Yeah, exactly. 326 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,040 He describes it well, although he doesn't technically in that first say that they're 327 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,920 gray, but it is more or less what we would think here. 328 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,920 And right around this time, strangely enough, Alistair Crowley is going to come up because 329 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,320 in 1917, he communicates with this being known as LAM. 330 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,320 L-A-M. 331 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,040 Go Google a picture of what LAM looks like, both Chelsea and you listeners, when you have 332 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,040 a chance. 333 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,800 I know exactly what LAM looks like. 334 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,000 He does look like a gray. 335 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,160 Yeah, he's right around these parameters. 336 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,040 Now, you should also make note. 337 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,000 This also looks exactly as what H.G. Wells described as a future human. 338 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,200 So maybe he took inspiration when he was creating this picture. 339 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,160 But LAM wasn't an alien. 340 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:53,920 Crowley believed that LAM was a Tibetan llama from Lung between China and Tibet. 341 00:17:53,920 --> 00:18:00,760 LAM is Tibetan for way or path, which Crowley said, or sorry, Crowley, I'm saying it wrong, 342 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,840 Crowley, said had the numerical value of 71 or no thing, a gateway to the void and a link 343 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,360 between the stars between systems of serious and andromeda, LAM was to fulfill the work 344 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,080 initiated by IWAS. 345 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,960 And he drew this portrait of LAM that you probably hopefully have looked at so you can see what 346 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,920 we're talking about because he doesn't really describe it. 347 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,480 He just drew it and said that gazing on the portrait enables one to make contact with this 348 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:23,480 entity. 349 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,760 And many people who say they make contact with LAM, it brings up implications, but we're 350 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,920 just going to kind of skip over that and say that this is something that looks exactly 351 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,080 like what we're talking about. 352 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,240 From there, we're going to actually talk about the first people who come forward saying they 353 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,760 add contact with Grace. 354 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,280 And Chelsea, are you ready for it? 355 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,800 Bill Moore, just kidding, it's Barney and Betty Hill. 356 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,080 Yeah, that's what I thought. 357 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,400 But in our last episode, I don't know if we're foiling it. 358 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,400 Nope, we're not. 359 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,880 Bill Moore comes up later on. 360 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:52,880 Don't worry about it. 361 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,000 No, it was what's his face that we just had? 362 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,880 John Lear said that at least came up in the John Lear episode that Bill Moore says he 363 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,240 coined the term Grace, which he might have. 364 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,400 It's very minute in this entire thing. 365 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,800 Yeah, well, whoever coined it, like what they're calling them. 366 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,400 So this idea of this character that we've been seeing through science fiction or at least 367 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,680 non-actual contact entities really comes to fruition in 1965 when Betty and Barney Hill 368 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,400 come forward with their story. 369 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,600 So they are allegedly, we've covered this a long time ago and only part of it. 370 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:37,640 So Betty and Barney Hill allegedly were abducted in 1961 by alien beings with grayish skin. 371 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,880 They were in their car. 372 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,000 They see these guys. 373 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,840 They get taken on to the spacecraft. 374 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,000 I don't think we actually covered the abduction. 375 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,880 No, we never covered the actual abduction. 376 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,240 And we're not going to cover it here either. 377 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:54,680 Other than the fact that Betty apparently gets shown the star map and people have alleged 378 00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:00,400 that this looks like a map of Zeta reticuli based on where the stars are. 379 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,120 And you might sometimes Zeta reticuli if I ever saw it. 380 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:05,360 Yeah, exactly. 381 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,840 You might see people refer to the grays as Zeta reticulants. 382 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,000 So that's as far as we need to go with that part. 383 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,480 And I just make a comment. 384 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,960 Maybe I should hold my comment. 385 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,320 Should I say it or should I hold it? 386 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,320 You can say it. 387 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:23,160 It seems like at this point there's enough kind of in the subconscious of popular culture 388 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,800 at the time for this to come into fruition to something. 389 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,200 Yes, there definitely is. 390 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,800 And that's going to be kind of the next portion of this episode. 391 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,800 Okay. 392 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,760 That this is kind of all over science fiction. 393 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,280 And this is something that is on TV at the time. 394 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,080 Oh yeah, I guess it would be on TV. 395 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,080 Yeah. 396 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Even if you're just kind of reading science. 397 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:48,200 Like I don't read a lot of science fiction, but there's things that you know you hear 398 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:54,120 in passing and stuff like that for it to be something that is known or at least in your 399 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,120 subconscious. 400 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,600 I have speculation as to why too. 401 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,160 Everything kind of works out the way it does from this point based on the technology of 402 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,160 the time. 403 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,240 Anyhow, Barney and Betty Hill don't remember any of this. 404 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,720 They have some missing time. 405 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,360 They end up going to a hypnotist. 406 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,560 When they go to the hypnotist, they each end up talking about these entities who abducted 407 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:12,560 them. 408 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,120 That's what they end up kind of describing the same thing. 409 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,160 They even draw kind of a sketch of it. 410 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,720 And it's a gray entity that has more facial features than you'd be used to. 411 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,160 Slightly smaller heads, but they're gray. 412 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:31,200 And this is where the idea originally comes from for abductions with grays. 413 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,640 And Chelsea, when I did some research on the Betty and Barney Hill case for this, I feel 414 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:41,240 like we need to do an episode on Betty specifically because she has some interesting things she 415 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,240 does later in life. 416 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,000 I think I know that, but yeah, I would love to do an episode on which we actually talk 417 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,800 about what happens and not just... 418 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,680 Can we just allude to most of that? 419 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,080 Sorry, let's not spoiler that episode in the future. 420 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,440 Yeah, don't spoil it. 421 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,440 Sorry. 422 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,400 Anyhow, it comes out very famous case. 423 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,040 It ends up going internationally famous. 424 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,720 And pretty much most people would know at least if they're talking about aliens, this 425 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,840 is the Betty and Barney Hill case and that they saw these gray aliens. 426 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,440 Goes huge from there. 427 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:15,000 I do want to make a note that their war euphologists have looked at this and way later on, in fact, 428 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:21,440 it wasn't alleged until in 1990 in an article called Entirely Unpredisposed, Martin Koppmeyer 429 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,720 suggested that Barney and Betty's memories revealed under hypnosis kind of really line 430 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,080 up to an episode of the Outer Limits, which came out two weeks before their hypnosis. 431 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,080 And Chelsea... 432 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,080 What? 433 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,080 What? 434 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,160 I'm going to share my screen with you just so that you can see this. 435 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,360 Who sketches that? 436 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:39,840 This is Barney and Betty's Hill. 437 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,520 The top most sketch is Barney's while the lower two were David Baker's based on Barney's 438 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:45,520 description. 439 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:46,720 So that's what they have. 440 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,560 And this is the alien in the Outer Limits. 441 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,360 That's the same guy pretty much. 442 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,160 Now I do want to say that maybe the nicer sketches that guy was influenced by the Outer 443 00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,080 Limits episode. 444 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,080 Who knows? 445 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,080 Did they watch? 446 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,080 Did they watch? 447 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,080 I don't know. 448 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,080 The Outer Limits is the same thing. 449 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,080 Is it not? 450 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,120 No, the redo was Canadian. 451 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,800 It wasn't originally 1960s show. 452 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,960 I don't know if that was Canadian. 453 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,360 But Barney wasn't a great artist. 454 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,320 So his doesn't line up as much as the other guys. 455 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,360 But the other guys do seem to line up pretty well. 456 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:19,360 But again... 457 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,920 I mean even looking at his, it looks very similar. 458 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,840 But it should be noted too that this was an allegation made 26 years after the abduction 459 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,040 case happened and all this came out. 460 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,200 That allegation has never actually been made up until that point. 461 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,040 And that also brings up at least I didn't see it discussed too much. 462 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,240 But this starts to get big in the 1960s Chelsea. 463 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Do you know what wasn't big in the 1960s? 464 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,560 Other TVs. 465 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,400 So I'm wondering if the whole point or at least one of the reasons that we end up with 466 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,040 gray beings is because of hypnotic regression. 467 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,680 It's something that they saw on TV. 468 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,360 This wasn't the only TV show at the time. 469 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,880 You wouldn't know what to color it if it's something that you saw on the other end of 470 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:05,880 the... 471 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:06,880 Unless it's specifically stated. 472 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,840 But if it's shown in the background or something you weren't paying too much attention to, 473 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,960 definitely gray. 474 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,720 I mean if you're going under hypnosis and that's something in your subconscious, that's 475 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,680 something that if your subconscious has nothing to put there that it could pull from somewhere 476 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,800 else to put something. 477 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,360 If you're not careful when you're hypnotizing somebody. 478 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:31,640 Yeah, I am really curious if anybody could do the research on that and see if that's 479 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,840 kind of one of the things that could be a factor in the prominence of gray aliens. 480 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,520 The fact that we didn't have color TV when it rose to prominence, but we did have TV. 481 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:42,680 That's a good point. 482 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,400 And it could very well have... 483 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,640 Did H.G. Wells say a color? 484 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,280 I can't remember if you did say. 485 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,320 He also said that those were future humans. 486 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:51,320 It's hard to say. 487 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,320 Yeah. 488 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,320 Hmm. 489 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,320 Point. 490 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,320 But that's just purely my speculation. 491 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,720 I think it's valid and we'll hold on. 492 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,720 I think it is too. 493 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,720 It's a really good point. 494 00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,720 I don't. 495 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,600 I have no research to back it up other than what we're talking about now. 496 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,800 So the report from the regression features a scenario that was in some respects similar 497 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,720 to the television show and also it featured wrap around eyes which are an extreme rarity 498 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,080 in science fiction films. 499 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,760 I know of only one instance. 500 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,760 They appeared on the Alien of an Episode of an Old TV series The Outer Limits entitled 501 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:24,000 The Bellarrow Shield, a person familiar with Barney's sketch in the interrupted journey 502 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,040 and the sketch done in the collaboration with the artist David Baker will find Jejavu creeping 503 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,880 up his spine when seeing this episode. 504 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,600 The resemblance is much abetted by an absence of ears, hair, and nose on both aliens. 505 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,040 Could it be by chance? 506 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,040 Consider this. 507 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Barney first described and drew the wrap around eyes during hypnosis session on February 22, 508 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,160 1964. 509 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,200 The Bellarrow Shield was first broadcast on February 10, 1964. 510 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,460 Only 12 days separate the two instances and if the identification is admitted the common 511 00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:57,200 sense of wrap around eyes in the abduction literature follows two cultural forces. 512 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,000 So that's where we get kind of the shaping and that's that theory that that's where 513 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,160 the grays come from is hypnotic regression bringing back a memory from something else. 514 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,760 Okay, I can get behind that. 515 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,760 There are a few other sightings in their abductions during that time that mentioned grays but 516 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:18,440 we're gonna kind of skip over that for now and go to 1977 when a young up and coming 517 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,360 director by the name of Steven Spielberg is working on a movie called Close Encounters 518 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:28,720 of the Third Kind and they designed an alien which shows up in the film that looks strikingly 519 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,120 similar to these grays that we're discussing. 520 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:37,840 This really the first time you're gonna see the grays as we talk about them come up. 521 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,640 And Chelsea, I am just gonna show you really quickly. 522 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,040 This was the original design for what the aliens and close encounters of the third kind 523 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,040 were gonna look like. 524 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,240 I was just googling it. 525 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,280 They had to change the eyes because apparently it was kids who had to wear them and it creeped 526 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,960 them out too much so they changed the eyes. 527 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,640 But that's basically the gray alien that people picture. 528 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,640 That's him. 529 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,320 It should be noted then, well how did Steven Spielberg come up with this? 530 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,040 There's a book called Close Encounters of the Third Kind, The Ultimate Visual History 531 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:12,040 by Michael Klastoren and he notes on pages 105 through 107 that the close encounters 532 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,960 alien designs came from the film's scientific advisor Dr. J. Allen Heineck who's actually 533 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,320 in the movie near the end. 534 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:26,360 Who famously worked on the US Air Force's Project Blue Book. 535 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:27,800 Here's a direct quote from this book. 536 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,720 When designing the aliens, Spielberg and John Alves didn't set out to create wildly imaginative 537 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,080 otherworldly beings and Stem Spielberg was determined to keep the film as factual as 538 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,080 possible. 539 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280 Turning to the work of few phologists J. Allen Heineck as a starting point. 540 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,120 In the majority of the credible reports Heineck had received regarding close encounters of 541 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:49,600 the third kind, the description of the ETs were remarkably similar and the beings often 542 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,800 known as grays were nearly always described as being pale and diminutive with large volbous 543 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,240 heads and two huge almond shaped eyes. 544 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,080 That species was being reported all over the world Spielberg said and that made me think 545 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,360 that there was some validity to the sightings. 546 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:09,360 That's the story behind why the aliens are that way in close encounters of the third 547 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:13,240 kind and this really pushes it into absolutely everybody's psyche. 548 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,360 This was a huge movie at the time and specifically J. Allen Heineck used inspiration from cases 549 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:20,720 that he worked on in Blue Book. 550 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,480 Betty and Barney Hill were a project Blue Book case as was Lonnie Zamora. 551 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,160 I can't remember if we've talked about the Zamora case but it's from 1964 also involves 552 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,120 gray aliens and these are kind of the two that he drew the most inspiration from for 553 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,640 helping create this alien. 554 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,600 The next thing that really brings gray aliens into the zeitgeist is a Whitley Streber's 555 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,400 book Communion specifically the cover of that book. 556 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,480 Now Communion was huge it was a big book in the 80s it should be importantly mentioned 557 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,840 that although is it fiction it's fiction right? 558 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,200 He tells the story through fiction but he says it's based on real events but Whitley 559 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,960 Streber tells the story of gray aliens and contact with them. 560 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,360 There's a cover of the book that is very famous and basically it is what people picture when 561 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,080 they picture gray aliens. 562 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,480 This cover was done by a man by the name Tedsep Jacobs and he kind of said this about it. 563 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,640 It was painted in my small apartment on East Street and 3rd Street in New York City. 564 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,320 Whitley sat with me first for a drawing of the aliens as I sketched he would indicate 565 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,600 how to change the portrait so that it would more match what he saw. 566 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,920 It was I believe the process used by the police sketch artist and every last detail was corrected 567 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,560 according to his instructions. 568 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,980 At one point he said the image corresponded exactly to what he had seen. 569 00:29:32,980 --> 00:29:38,160 As Whitley decided me for the subsequent session I began to paint the image on a wooden prepared 570 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,160 panel going through the same process as for the drawing until Whitley finally said the 571 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,560 image was exact. 572 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,040 As to the gender of the alien image to tell the truth the subject didn't come up. 573 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,200 I don't even know if the grays have genders as we understand it. 574 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,280 Whitley corrected the developing image to have a certain fragility of vulnerability and 575 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,000 I suppose we earthlings usually associate these qualities with femininity. 576 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,520 So that's really where the two biggest things here of how we picture grays. 577 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,600 This comes from close encounters of the third kind and then the cover of communion. 578 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,600 These are literally where most things draw back. 579 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,960 Well I know the thing with the cover of communion was it caused a big stir because it caused 580 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:22,040 so many people to recognize that they had to encounter this type of being and so people 581 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,000 recognized it that way. 582 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,840 But playing devil's advocate here if you're seeing this in popular culture that could 583 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,040 cause some sort of subconscious recognizing of it as well. 584 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,320 That's a fair point yeah or just spinning the back of your mind for a long time yeah. 585 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,160 And especially here it's kind of like the satanic panic of its time which is right around 586 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,880 this time as well where people spontaneously created memories of like satanic rituals happening 587 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,360 in their childhood which never happened at all. 588 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,600 So right around this time too is when Bill Moore hits the scene with his Roswell book 589 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,840 in 1980. 590 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,680 And this is where Bill Moore gets involved in this basically he wrote this book and brought 591 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,240 back the idea of grays to the Roswell story. 592 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,560 That's his addition to the grey mythos. 593 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,880 He might have coined the term grays I couldn't find any conclusive evidence one way or the 594 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,800 other but that's an important comment. 595 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,160 That he did that it was grays. 596 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,880 That he came up with the term grays no idea if you ask me. 597 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,160 Oh yeah so as a reminder we've talked about this so many times. 598 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,400 Maybe Bill Moore went in and wrote that story what was it like 20 years after Roswell actually 599 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,400 happened. 600 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,400 Over 30 yeah. 601 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,600 Yeah and that's where they said they recovered an alien body. 602 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,000 And specifically grays. 603 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,520 Yeah specifically like many many many years later. 604 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,720 And the 80s is really where most of this comes from this idea of the grey and where it hits 605 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,800 cultural phenomenon because 77s when the close encounters of the third kind comes out. 606 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,520 Bill Moore writes his book in 1980. 607 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,440 I believe communion is the early 80s I didn't put the specific date down but the movie comes 608 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,440 out with Christopher Walken in it playing Whitley Streever in 89. 609 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,680 We get this redone story of Roswell where the grays are there and it just explodes. 610 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040 I could see it happening like that. 611 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,520 Actually it all dammit it makes so much sense. 612 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,120 And yeah because of this story I saw a poll and it's like a weird stat. 613 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,720 Grays are often involved in alien abduction claims among reports of alien encounters. 614 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:28,840 Grays make up 50% in Australia 73% in the US 48% in continental Europe and 12% in the 615 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,840 UK. 616 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,440 And these reports also include two distinct groups of grays at different height like we 617 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,720 talked about the beginning. 618 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,960 It should be noted I couldn't find the original paper for this where these numbers came from 619 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,760 but these statistics were collected at UFO conventions. 620 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:50,760 So I don't think it's going to be the best evidence to put it that way. 621 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,640 I find this crazy that everything kind of stems from the early 60s here. 622 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:02,040 And the first kind of inspired thing I could find from the stories of grays is a 1966 a 623 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Japanese superhero named Ultraman comes out who is explicitly based on the recounts of 624 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,800 gray aliens that were coming out. 625 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,720 That's really the first thing that comes out. 626 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,320 From there it's in everything they're in Babylon 5, Gargate, South Park Hazard, X-Files 627 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,880 they definitely come up several times and in many video games they show up too and basically 628 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,880 they're every day. 629 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,640 They have to be the most common extraterrestrial. 630 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:29,880 Oh yeah for sure. 631 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,240 Not the only one and we could definitely do the history of different niche aliens that 632 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,240 are out there but these were the main ones. 633 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,320 This is the one I wanted to talk about. 634 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,200 This is the main one yeah and it kept coming up so I was so excited to hear you're doing 635 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,200 this episode. 636 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,440 That's kind of where it ends off is it's everywhere in the zeitgeist and that's where 637 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,120 it all just kind of comes from. 638 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,040 We do episodes on here and I go into it being like yeah this is going to be so amazing. 639 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,640 I love this topic and then we get to the end of it and I'm like damn it. 640 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,280 As I've said it a million times like I want to believe in this stuff. 641 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,640 I love the paranormal and then we do an episode and I'm just convinced the other way. 642 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,360 However I'll say that with an asterisk on this one I do think that it can be a real 643 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,520 thing but you can really through everything that you. 644 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,520 You can see the trajectory of this. 645 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:24,080 You can see the trajectory and you can see it start to be in the back of people's minds 646 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,840 starting with which I think is really cool that HG Wells had that such a creative idea 647 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,600 in the future humans. 648 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,880 It is interesting though because he definitely also did space space things in aliens so it's 649 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,120 interesting that it only comes up as future humans and not the aliens like more of the 650 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,360 worlds had aliens in it and they go to Mars to fight back against the world of the world. 651 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:46,360 That's true but. 652 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,360 It didn't come up in there. 653 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:54,000 HG Wells is most well known for War of the Worlds and causing the huge panic with War 654 00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:00,000 of the Worlds on the radio and so being popular at the time if people read any other of his 655 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,320 works sometimes things get mashed up into one the more time goes on and then it just 656 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:12,800 starts kind of just seems to start to snowball with everything in pop culture and then with 657 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,480 Betty and Barney Hill that's where it really it's a point of coming into contact with 658 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,200 the UFO people and then it takes off from there. 659 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,720 It could just be the fact that they were the first external forces that we ended up seeing 660 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,000 that end up associating with this HG Wells idea. 661 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:33,920 Yeah well outer limits is also science fiction so if you take one of those and perhaps see 662 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:40,000 it also read HG Wells or something anyhow it's in like the psyche of culture and it 663 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,000 just kind of goes and goes and then you get the fucking Whitley Streepers in there and 664 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:51,760 Bill Moore who just starts fucking making shit up. 665 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,320 And the Richard Doty's who are really bad at making shit up so they just take the things 666 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,480 that are already there. 667 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,120 Yeah and which you get the Ebens who are probably also Greeks. 668 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:06,000 Yeah I looked them up they were quite in the same parameters as the Greys they are close 669 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,000 though. 670 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,200 He had a little bit of creativity on that one. 671 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,920 Yeah they had more facial features that's like the only difference. 672 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,400 That was so interesting I didn't expect it was gonna go there. 673 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,120 Yeah I had a lot of fun actually looking this one up. 674 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,800 Yeah I found that super interesting. 675 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,840 And thankfully it wasn't one of those ones that I felt like there was nothing to the 676 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,960 story where it just kind of seems to appear one day there seems to be a nice linear trail 677 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,200 Oh yes you can see it happening. 678 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,120 And with that I have been Taylor here with Chelsea we are Journey to the Fringe thank 679 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,440 you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 680 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,480 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe if you have liked what you have listened 681 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:54,120 to please like share subscribe or follow depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 682 00:36:54,120 --> 00:37:00,280 Also please if possible leave a 5 star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 683 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,000 Should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your social media of choice 684 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,840 I bet you we are there. 685 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,000 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or 686 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,880 tell us that we're wrong and terrible either way please send us an email at Journey to 687 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,200 the Fringe at gmail.com. 688 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:24,520 For now I'll see you in the next episode.