1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,360 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,320 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe. 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,780 If you need someone to listen, we're here for you. 4 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:23,840 So long as you're willing to be ignorant of the restraints of the podcast medium. 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,040 We are your podcast hosts Taylor and Chelsea here today to take in a captivating Chelsea 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,040 episode. 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,320 And that is about all I can give you. 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:39,040 That's where my wit ends on the current state of affairs for Chelsea had done her thing. 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,040 I would like to see you go for it just a little bit more. 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,040 Sometimes. 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,360 But you actually, you have, I will give you that like you just said. 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,800 But the last time I got shut down hard, there was, it just was wrong. 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:51,800 It's true. 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:58,680 Anyhow, man, was this week's episode hard to pick and not for lack of ideas, but not 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,680 only do I like to split up the assholes with something light, but I did this like literally 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,000 a couple minutes before recording. 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,000 Just kidding. 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,720 I don't care about the order of the episodes. 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,960 But in those minutes before the recording, the deadpopes and I convened. 20 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:20,000 And after that, I thought Vatican secrets would be a nice episode for you because they were 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,760 so against this episode. 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,400 And in reflecting back at my research, the Vatican has so fucking many secrets that I 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,520 couldn't have possibly covered them all in one episode. 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,720 In fact, many of them are about fucking. 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,600 So I actually none of the ones I looked at were about fucking. 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:38,600 Well, that's good. 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:39,920 It can be its own episode. 28 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,480 Maybe that's our Valentine's Day episode next year. 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,480 Oh my God. 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,880 The sexy side of the boats. 31 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,280 When this episode is getting edited, rated down or someone listening, please put it 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,160 into the comments. 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,720 We've already covered one secret in an episode. 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,640 I think we all remember AI Ouija. 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,080 I think I just hit the quota for them to sponsor us now. 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Yeah, we said it seven times. 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,640 Now you gotta, you gotta. 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,640 Yeah, now you gotta. 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:08,640 That's the rules. 40 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,040 Was this the first time that again? 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,040 For Arpinati. 42 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Somebody tell him. 43 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,520 As I started going down the roads of secrets, thinking it would be a fun little episode, 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:25,280 it turned into a massive secret beast in which I had to cut it down to only three secrets, 45 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,320 maybe four, depending if you're good. 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,760 I know we also want to do an episode on popes. 47 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,720 So this will be a nice segue and also some fodder for a future episode. 48 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,280 So with that being said, let's jump into some secrets. 49 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:43,120 Chelsea, before we start, I just want to confirm we don't have to whisper the entire episode. 50 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,120 Right? 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,520 That's a good question. 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,640 We should. 53 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:56,240 Well, we gotta listen to it on level one. 54 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,520 Just turn it down so that you can barely hear it because I'm going to forget that I need 55 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,040 to be whispering. 56 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,080 Number one, I don't even know why this is a secret in the first place. 57 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,600 I would be proud. 58 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,480 Is it is it the Pope's secret marinara sauce? 59 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,480 That you know what this that secret would never slip. 60 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,560 Well, and everybody knows everybody knows the secret ingredient is adrenochrome. 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,640 So we can just leave it at that. 62 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:21,640 Adrenochrome. 63 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:22,640 Oh yeah. 64 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:23,640 Oh, it's adrenochrome. 65 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:25,520 I was just a little bit extra rosemary. 66 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:33,240 But adrenochrome is as close as you can get to souls. 67 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:41,000 Number one, the chief exorcist of the Vatican performed 100,000 plus exorcisms. 68 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,040 You heard that right. 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:49,280 Brother Gabriel M. Morrith is a late priest and served as the chief exorcist of the Vatican. 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:56,680 He served for 60 years and is believed to have performed approximately 160,000 exorcisms. 71 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,760 That's even more than 100,000. 72 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,600 Sorry, I gotta do the math on this one second. 73 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,400 60 years you said, right? 74 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,600 Yeah. 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:07,600 There are. 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,600 Yeah. 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,600 21,000. 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,760 How many demons is that? 79 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:18,200 Well, it's 21,950 days in 60 years. 80 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,200 He's performing eight a day, eight exorcisms a day. 81 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,840 I think he comes up how much that he's doing. 82 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:26,840 Okay. 83 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:28,920 So just I want to get this straight. 84 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:35,360 If he's just an average Joe working man who is working eight hours a day, taking his lunch 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,440 breaks, he's doing one an hour. 86 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Yeah. 87 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:40,440 On average. 88 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Okay. 89 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,440 I guess. 90 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,360 He might be doing some overtime here and there. 91 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,360 Yeah. 92 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,360 Maybe sometimes he's working Saturdays. 93 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,960 Well, they're exempt from labor laws, you know, they're usually one of those exemptions. 94 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,040 Are you following the... 95 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,600 You can continue with this. 96 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Who knows? 97 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,000 The exorcism rate, however, is not just limited to the late chief exorcist. 98 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,240 It has been performed by various poach over the years. 99 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Really? 100 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,240 Yeah. 101 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Poach are doing the dirty work? 102 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,240 It's not really. 103 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,240 Is it dirty work? 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,240 Exorcisms? 105 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:12,240 Oh, yeah. 106 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,360 We did a whole episode on it. 107 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,280 I don't think they're all dirty work. 108 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:17,600 Like they exercised buildings and... 109 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Yeah. 110 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,120 And then they need to take... 111 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,840 And they don't even care at what point the exorcism is at. 112 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:29,800 They need to go out to take their breaks and swing on swings and stuff. 113 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:30,800 Yeah. 114 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:31,800 Take their juice break. 115 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,400 And that's when the exorcism becomes so intense that people die, I think. 116 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:38,400 I can't remember. 117 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:39,400 There were just... 118 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:40,400 That is for sure. 119 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,400 I hope so. 120 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,400 It's a good episode. 121 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,640 You guys should go back and watch it. 122 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:44,640 Oh, yeah. 123 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:45,640 That was a great episode. 124 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,040 Top 5 best named episodes. 125 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,040 Oh, yeah. 126 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,040 Exorcism is good for the soul. 127 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,320 It's come up like recently before too. 128 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:58,560 In 2018, BBC reported that the Vatican welcomed 250 priests from across the world to an annual 129 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,560 workshop. 130 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,560 Amorthic co-founded the International Association of Exorcists in 1990 to help inspire and train 131 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:06,640 other priests. 132 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,680 Headquartered in Rome, its first international conference took place in 1994 and became a 133 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,280 biannual event. 134 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:17,120 The Vatican formally recognized the group in July 2014. 135 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,920 Amorth said he performed as many as 20 exorcisms a day at his peak. 136 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:28,880 He detailed the process in Marcelo Stanzione's 2020 book, The Devil is Afraid of Me, the 137 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,880 life and work of the world's most famous exorcist. 138 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:37,200 Amorth claimed exorcisms lasted about 30 minutes on average and it made little difference 139 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,240 if they were performed over the phone by a Skype or in person or by AI. 140 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,240 Sorry, Charles. 141 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:51,240 I have to ask, is it because they were useless? 142 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,440 None of them worked. 143 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,800 It's because they didn't actually work. 144 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:03,480 For the latter, Amorth had the assistance of four laymen who escorted patients to a room 145 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,840 away from the Roman streets, though that passerbys couldn't hear the screaming. 146 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:15,160 Despite performing an absurdly high number of exorcisms, one claiming as many as 160,000, 147 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,880 Amorth said fewer than 100 involved true demonic possession. 148 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,880 I wonder what the rest included. 149 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,920 In such instances, Amorth said the possessed would spit out shards of glass, pieces of 150 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,360 metal, rose petals, and other items. 151 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,400 He kept a collection of plastic figurines, nails, and keys as proof. 152 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,600 He also said he witnessed feats of superhuman strength like an 11-year-old boy hurling away 153 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,760 three police officers with ease. 154 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,880 He also claims to talk with the devil himself. 155 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,640 I just want to be sure. 156 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,120 Was that child doing that while he was on the phone? 157 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,120 Or was this one of the in person ones? 158 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,200 Also, I see the devil being Skype kind of guy. 159 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,080 I do love that he just threw them. 160 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,240 It's the same if I did it over Skype. 161 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,360 The implications of that are limitless. 162 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,080 I really can't really phrase it the first time he decided to do that. 163 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,560 Like, yeah, what's the difference? 164 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:06,560 Yeah, exactly. 165 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:07,560 I'm up for the water. 166 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,560 I'm up for the water. 167 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,560 Oh, it's good. 168 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,200 And then he was like, let's just try this one over Skype. 169 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,200 And then he was like, hmm, same results. 170 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:15,200 Same to him. 171 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,200 Nothing. 172 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,400 And he did talk to the devil himself. 173 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,640 So I wonder if he came to the conclusion that the devil is just pissed off that he 174 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,560 always tried to help out people building churches. 175 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,600 And he just always got fucked over. 176 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,400 Honestly, I feel like the conversation with the devil was like, look, I got five more 177 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,760 minutes till my next one. 178 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:34,760 What do you got? 179 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:35,760 Make it quick. 180 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,360 Like what you gotta say, I don't really have time to talk to you. 181 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,840 I'm on the clock. 182 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,240 Do you want to help me build my true true not? 183 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,600 I'm actually feeling relieved that they have a chief exorcist role to fill. 184 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,320 Do they still have one like currently or has it been replaced by Friar Binati who is 185 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,840 being debriefed on things like Ouija.com? 186 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,480 How much did we make for that reference? 187 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,480 Nothing? 188 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:02,480 Okay. 189 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,920 It says right now it is. 190 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:07,920 No, never mind. 191 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,480 I think it is vacant. 192 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,600 Everybody talks about Gabriel, but he died in 2016. 193 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,280 Yeah, it's vacant. 194 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,080 Well, I feel like I couldn't fill a role at the Vatican. 195 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,080 Unfortunately. 196 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,080 This is the closest role. 197 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,080 How much did it pay? 198 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,080 Oh, is it open? 199 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,080 Does it say? 200 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,080 And sorry, I got to look annual salary. 201 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,080 Which is a poll mate. 202 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,080 Does he make this? 203 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,760 He would have to make a salary. 204 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:31,760 Doesn't come up. 205 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,760 Man, you know what? 206 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,080 This is a job for AI. 207 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,080 How much? 208 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,000 Okay, let's see what AI has. 209 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:42,360 So to continue on, why Taylor does the digging for us on salaries of jobs at the Vatican? 210 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:48,080 Oh, just take a look at like indeed.com for the chief exorcist application. 211 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,080 It's got to be up there. 212 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,480 There's a Pope's exorcist is actually a movie on Netflix at one point. 213 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,800 Don't hold me to it that it's still on there. 214 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,680 It stars Russell Crowe and is based on Gabriel Amor's case files. 215 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,960 If you're really interested in. 216 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Hey Chelsea, I don't have a number for you, but AI is telling us to stay away as for the 217 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:09,760 salary. 218 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,800 Sorry, and this is co-pilot on Microsoft as for the salary of the chief exorcist. 219 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,440 It's essential to understand that this role is primarily a religious and spiritual calling 220 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,600 right there red flag rather than a conventional job with a fixed income. 221 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,520 Exorcists serve out of their faith and commitment to helping those in need. 222 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,400 Therefore, their competition is not based on a standard salary structure. 223 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:38,400 Okay, so that leaves me to believe that in his talking to the devil, he was on the devil's 224 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:39,400 payroll. 225 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,400 Yeah. 226 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,680 And he was just doing the loophole thing where the devil would come to collect because he 227 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:49,880 was making promises to the devil and he was just fucking the devil over. 228 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,320 And now I'm really curious how much the devil paid him per exorcism. 229 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,320 Yeah. 230 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,640 Because if I'm getting paid by the devil per exorcism, I would want to rush through 231 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:58,640 those. 232 00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Oh yeah. 233 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,640 And probably do them by Skype. 234 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:09,120 Well, to a by Skype, it's fine. 235 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,680 Give cats it at 45 minutes. 236 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:11,680 This is perfect. 237 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:12,680 Okay. 238 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:16,080 So there might be a double secret to this one. 239 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,080 Moving on. 240 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:23,680 Anyhow, if you guys feel the calling, apparently they don't pay per annual salary necessarily. 241 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,680 We don't know how it's paid. 242 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:25,680 Sorry. 243 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:26,680 Well, Chelsea does the next one. 244 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:28,760 I'm going to look up how much the Pope makes and how. 245 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:29,760 Hey, number two. 246 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,200 I have to prepare myself mentally for this one. 247 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,600 The Vatican helped Nazi war criminals escape the Allied forces. 248 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,920 I'd never heard this secret before. 249 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,200 So let's find out about it. 250 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,480 After the victory of the Allied forces in Germany to end World War II, the Nazis were 251 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,280 forced to seek refuge outside Europe. 252 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,800 Thousands of Nazis managed to escape to South America countries, specifically Argentina, 253 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Chile, and Brazil. 254 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,120 I didn't know that. 255 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Oh yeah, we knew about that. 256 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,400 We didn't know that. 257 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:58,400 Remember that one? 258 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,800 It wasn't a mini at that point. 259 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:00,800 That one about like... 260 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,160 Oh, the Confederate town? 261 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,160 Yes. 262 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,160 Yeah. 263 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,160 Confederato or whatever. 264 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,160 Yeah, I love that one. 265 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,160 Yeah, that was so weird. 266 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:08,160 The place where the South rose. 267 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,240 Yeah, so weird. 268 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,880 Harvard researcher Gerald Steinacker wrote a book that shows travel documents pointing 269 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,800 to the Vatican having helped the Nazis travel to these countries. 270 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:24,200 Steinacker argues that it was done with the hope of reviving European Christianity in fear 271 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,960 of the growing influence of the Soviet Union. 272 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,560 The Vatican, however, has refused to comment on these claims. 273 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:35,800 Now, I'm not reading a book by a Harvard researcher, but I did find this Guardian article. 274 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,400 Hopefully it's not written by the Harvard researcher. 275 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,400 Not sure. 276 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,400 It would be. 277 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,280 The article is titled, Red Cross and Vatican Help Thousands of Nazis to Escape Second 278 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,000 World War, the Guardian. 279 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,280 The Red Cross and the Vatican both helped thousands of Nazis war criminals and collaborators 280 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,080 to escape after the Second World War, according to a book that pulls together evidence from 281 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,600 unpublished documents. 282 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,760 The Red Cross has previously acknowledged that its efforts to help refugees were used 283 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,480 by Nazis because administrators were overwhelmed, but the research suggests the numbers were 284 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:08,960 much higher than thought. 285 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,840 Gerald Steinacker, a researcher, oh, damn it! 286 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,320 I was trying to get away from the Harvard researcher. 287 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:23,760 Gerald Steinacker, a research fellow at Harvard University, was giving access to thousands 288 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,560 of internal documents in the archives of the International Committee of the Red Cross. 289 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:34,640 The documents include Red Cross travel documents issued mistakenly to Nazis in the post-war 290 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:40,960 chaos, a throw light on how and why mass murderers such as Adolf Eichmann, Joseph Mengele, and 291 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,440 Klaus Barbi and thousands of others evaded capture by the Allies. 292 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,560 By comparing lists of wanted war criminals to travel documents, Steinacker says Britain 293 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:58,360 and Canada alone inadvertently took in around 8,000 former Waffen SS members in 1947. 294 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,920 Many of the basis of valid documents issued mistakenly. 295 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:07,320 The documents, which are discussed in Steinacker's book Nazis on the Run, How Hitler's Henchman 296 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:12,880 Fled Justice, offer a significant insight into Vatican thinking, particularly because 297 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,280 its own archives beyond 1939 are still closed. 298 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,200 The Vatican has consistently refused to comment. 299 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,880 Steinacker believes the Vatican's help was based on the hoped-for revival of European 300 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:29,200 Christianity and dread of the Soviet Union, but through the Vatican Refugee Commission, 301 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,360 war criminals were knowingly provided with false identities. 302 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,920 The Red Cross, overwhelmed by millions of refugees, relied substantially on Vatican 303 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:43,240 references and the often cursory Allied military checks in issuing travel papers known as 304 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:54,040 10-100s. 305 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,600 It believed it was primarily helping innocent refugees through correspondence between Red 306 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:03,960 Cross delegations in Genoa, Rome, and Geneva, showing it was aware Nazis were getting through. 307 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,920 Well, although the ICRC has publicly apologized, its actions went well beyond helping a few 308 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280 people, and quote said Steinacker. 309 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,240 Steinacker says the documents indicate that the Red Cross, mostly in Rome or Genoa, issued 310 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:25,640 at least 120,000 of the 10-100s, and that 90% of ex-Nazis fled via Italy, mostly to Spain 311 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,200 and North and South America, notably Argentina. 312 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:34,600 Former SS members often mixed with genuine refugees and presented themselves as stateless 313 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,200 ethnic Germans to gain transit papers. 314 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,760 Jews trying to get to Palestine via Italy were sometimes smuggled over the border with 315 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,320 escaping Nazis. 316 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:50,320 Steinacker says that individual Red Cross delegations issued war criminals with 10-100s 317 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:56,120 out of sympathy for individuals, political attitude or simply because they were overburden. 318 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,480 Stolen documents were also used to whisk Nazis to safety. 319 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,520 He said they were really in a dilemma. 320 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,920 It makes sense they stole a lot of documents. 321 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,880 Yeah, well I mean that's true. 322 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,160 He said quote they were really in a dilemma. 323 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,360 It was difficult. 324 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,280 It wanted to get rid of the job, nobody wanted to do it end quote. 325 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,800 The Red Cross refused to comment directly on Steinacker's findings, but the organization 326 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:23,520 says on its website quote the ICRC has previously deplored the fact that Eichmann and other 327 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:28,880 Nazi war criminals misused its travel documents to cover their tracks end quote. 328 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,720 So I will admit this article was about both the Red Cross and the Vatican. 329 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,520 So either disregard the Red Cross part or regard it. 330 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,480 And wait for our episode on the Red Cross obviously. 331 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:41,480 Yeah. 332 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,080 It might not be their only bad thing. 333 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,960 I'm gonna go with no if this is one of the bad things that they've done. 334 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:54,440 Yeah, so I guess both the Vatican and the Red Cross populated various countries in the world 335 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,440 with Nazis. 336 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,440 Yeah. 337 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,440 So that's great. 338 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,040 I mean it's a good thing that they're not ready for a pre-surgeon say and all of their 339 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,720 children are just you know what probably in their 80s so like I guess they're not a big 340 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,800 concern but their grandchildren they're ready to rule the world. 341 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:10,800 That's unfortunate. 342 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:11,800 Yeah. 343 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,320 I mean the implications of that are like crazy when you start thinking about it. 344 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:16,320 Yeah. 345 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,480 Plus like I just said we had that one. 346 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,520 Notifications on the rise right now which is terrifying. 347 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:27,640 It is I know which is like crazy to think and I was just listening to behind the bastards 348 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,080 all about. 349 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,080 Was it dinosaurs? 350 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,080 What? 351 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,080 No. 352 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,600 Yeah that's the most recent episode of the dinosaur guy. 353 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,080 It's about dinosaurs? 354 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,080 Yeah. 355 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,000 No it was the one before that maybe about Germany. 356 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,160 Oh it was for Germany and like all the rearing of children yeah. 357 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,120 Yes it was how they like bred Nazis. 358 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:51,560 And they told them like you can't speak to children and they have to like wear that thing 359 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,000 that keeps their back posture perfect and it like pulls under their area. 360 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,200 Yeah you can't speak to them even as a baby like once they were born you had to put them 361 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,720 in a room and not talk to them or hold them. 362 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,000 You could only like feed them for 20 minutes and after that you like had to stop feeding 363 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,000 them. 364 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,000 Yeah if they didn't latch it was their own fault. 365 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Yeah. 366 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,720 There is like so many episodes on it too and then they went on about. 367 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,440 The other end of the spectrum when the Nazis. 368 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,840 The other end the children of the Nazis and that one was bleak let me tell you that I 369 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,080 actually turned it off. 370 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:30,800 So on to number three the Vatican made money from the Holocaust. 371 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,320 Who would have thought after secret number two as labeled by the Vatican. 372 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:40,160 Oh wait okay I didn't realize they numbered their secret. 373 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:45,280 All of the stuff I never heard and like I said in my opener it just led me on this like 374 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,080 search for all this information that I couldn't have possibly put into one episode. 375 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,680 And yeah we have some good episodes coming up about not not no I keep referring to them 376 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,640 as Nazis now but it's the Vatican. 377 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,680 I mean what's the difference. 378 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:07,240 They've been apparently is it just more history. 379 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,480 Secret three the Vatican made money from the Holocaust. 380 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:16,080 So in addition to aiding the escape of thousands of Nazis from Europe the Vatican was also 381 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:21,480 involved in helping smuggle Nazi looted art golf and other property belonging to Jewish 382 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,480 families. 383 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,240 Did you say golf. 384 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,240 I did. 385 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,240 I don't know. 386 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,760 I got to the article I got this. 387 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:35,240 I'm not really sure what they were swiggling off that was golf. 388 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,800 One can only speculate clubs perhaps. 389 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,360 Oh about halfway through reading golf I was like golf can't be right but then I was like 390 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,040 maybe if no one questions it golf is right. 391 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,200 Well I hope we get this one past the listeners. 392 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:56,360 Gerald Posner an American journalist says that Bernardino. 393 00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:00,360 No Gara apparently infamous person is going to say bad guy. 394 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,360 He might be a bad guy. 395 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,600 He's probably a bad guy but I don't know that for sure yet. 396 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,360 If you're infamous you're a bad guy. 397 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,480 Just say yeah have you heard about him Bernardino. 398 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:16,080 No Gara apparently I have but where I'm going to wait and see is that is this a I. 399 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,840 Taylor speaking. 400 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:24,120 I got to talk to the pope see if I should recognize this guy. 401 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:29,360 Okay no Gara the financial advisor to the Vatican is believed to have been one of a 402 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:30,680 Nazi spy. 403 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,600 He is believed to have instituted a horrifying scheme that allowed the Vatican to invest money 404 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,400 in Italian insurance companies that kept the assets from the life insurance plans of the 405 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,320 murdered Jewish families. 406 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Since the Vatican was an investor not a direct insurer they did not need to return any of 407 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,400 the money made using the scheme. 408 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,920 I had a long look into this backstory here. 409 00:20:52,920 --> 00:21:00,160 This is obviously a tiny portion of a way bigger picture going on but World War 2 obviously 410 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,680 played a huge role in the creation of the Vatican Bank as well as the unique power it 411 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:06,680 held. 412 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,720 As the allies imposed restrictions on bank accounts it became harder to move money around. 413 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:17,760 This Bernardino Nagara dude created the bank called the Institute for Religious Works in 414 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:23,520 1942 to avoid having financial transactions tracked through the western banks. 415 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,080 Because it resided in the Vatican City it was exempt from all wartime restrictions and 416 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,720 became the world's best offshore bank. 417 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:31,720 I was in quotes. 418 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,400 I kind of contest that a little bit because Switzerland exists not that far away. 419 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,400 Okay. 420 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,240 You can keep going but Switzerland has like all of the Nazi gold after this. 421 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,600 I mean maybe this is something to look into for another episode. 422 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,240 I do also want to state that you did say that this is a unique point in the Catholic Church's 423 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,240 history. 424 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,480 The entire time the Catholic Church has existed it's been a unique situation. 425 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:57,480 Oh yeah. 426 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,480 I don't think that we can say it's just like it's unique here it's always unique because 427 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,920 it's such a weird thing overall. 428 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:04,920 Yeah. 429 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,120 Well thank you for bringing that up. 430 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:14,040 This is just a tiny portion of a way bigger picture and I kept seeing the Nazis come up 431 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:19,280 in this history so I kind of did some like a little bit of googling which opened up a 432 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,280 lot. 433 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:28,880 A whole portion of this is the Vatican banking system that we only touch on a little bit here 434 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:34,680 making money from the Holocaust and I just mentioned the what is it called here the Institute 435 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,560 for Religious Works. 436 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,080 There's a whole other story to this. 437 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,440 I started writing it I realized it wasn't going to be covered in one episode so I left 438 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,440 that for another episode so it might be an interesting thing to look into but for right 439 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:54,240 now yes I agree with you and this is just a little tiny portion of the Vatican making 440 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,680 money off the Holocaust. 441 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,680 Yeah. 442 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:58,680 Yeah. 443 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,840 And sorry I just want to understand there they own the insurance company that was paying 444 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,120 out the life or should have been paying out the life insurance policies but they were 445 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:08,000 invested in it through the bank. 446 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Okay. 447 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000 Okay. 448 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,000 From what I understand. 449 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000 And yeah I just wanted to make sure because there's another way to make money off of life 450 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,160 insurance policies where you can technically take a policy out on somebody else where you 451 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,440 have a vested interest in and they weren't taking policies out on Jews so that's I just 452 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,560 wanted to make sure that wasn't what was happening. 453 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,120 Okay I was like is this another part and it very well could have but that's what we're 454 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:30,120 talking about. 455 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,520 We're just talking about investing in an insurance company. 456 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,320 The bank was invested in the insurance companies. 457 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:41,200 A German officer admitted to having many wartime spies in the Vatican one of them potentially 458 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,400 being Nogara. 459 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,360 He acclaimed an able financial advisor. 460 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:51,360 During the war Nogara began investing in Italian insurance companies which developed into stakes 461 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,600 that profited from the ongoing murders of Europe's Jews. 462 00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,000 Osnir wrote these companies made money while keeping all financial assets from life insurance 463 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,360 policies of deceased Jewish policy holders and refusing to pay for those still living. 464 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:10,520 But because the Vatican was not a direct insurer it was never required to pay restitution after 465 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,600 the war. 466 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,320 Many financial records were destroyed during the war. 467 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,520 Wait but wouldn't the company that are invested in have to pay restitutions? 468 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,160 I'm sure it did. 469 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,600 So didn't they technically pay restitutions? 470 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,720 It sounds like from what I'm reading that they benefited from it and were specific. 471 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:35,160 Yeah but also the stock would have been impacted by the insurance company having to pay restitution. 472 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,000 Yeah I don't know the details. 473 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,120 I get that. 474 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,560 It's the corporate bureaucracy bullshit so we don't have to technically take it into 475 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,920 account but if they're only invested in a company that did the bad thing then that company 476 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,760 would have paid restitutions on their behalf I guess because they were invested in them. 477 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,760 Does that make sense? 478 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,800 Yeah it does make sense to them but would if they paid on their behalf would they then 479 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,200 would have been impacted by it? 480 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,200 The Vatican? 481 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,200 Well I guess because they wouldn't have got an increase in shareholder value and or a 482 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,120 dividend from it. 483 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:16,200 Let's go on and see what it says because I don't know for sure. 484 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:22,040 But then again this is not the Vatican saying all of this so this is I mean speculation. 485 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,120 The companies made money by keeping all financial assets from life insurance policies of deceased 486 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,560 Jewish policy holders and refusing to pay for those still living but because the Vatican 487 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,880 was not a direct insurer it was never required to pay restitution after the war. 488 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Many financial records were destroyed during the war and the Vatican refused access to 489 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,600 its own records therefore the full scope of the scheme remains unclear. 490 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,000 Meanwhile the Pope at the time refused to publicly denounce anything the Third Reich 491 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,640 was doing even though the Vatican was one of the most informed institutions on the mass 492 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,840 killings long before the Allies discovered anything. 493 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,240 The Vatican Bank was the perfect place to hide billions of stolen wartime loot. 494 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,440 A church also aided and saved many Nazi war criminals after the war which refer back to 495 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,880 secret number two and so no it doesn't go into the details that you were speaking about 496 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:19,560 Taylor and I don't unfortunately have access to those records the council of popes here 497 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:25,240 turning to the fringe might but they do seem to be rather tight lipped about it. 498 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,800 Yeah I honestly for the most part like 95% of these popes that we're talking to are going to have 499 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,640 no idea about modern insurance policies so I understand. 500 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,480 Also like a good chunk of them are anti-semitic so I think they're also in agreement with what 501 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:49,480 happened. Yeah also just kept opening other doorways for me to look into things like I said 502 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,760 the Vatican Bank is one whole lot of bad stuff going on there and just something I learned 503 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,960 during this episode because I grew a curious this part of history would have been under Pope 504 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:10,200 Pius Pius X11. Pius sounds right yeah whatever Pius X11 or Pius II. X11. Oh the 12th. Yeah exactly. 505 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:17,800 I found an article in the Smithsonian magazine of all places a second secret source titled 506 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:24,600 secret giants discover newly unsealed Vatican archives lay out evidence of Pope Pius XII's 507 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,640 knowledge of the Holocaust. Pope Pius XII's silence on the fate of millions of Jews killed 508 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,240 during the Holocaust has clouded his legacy with controversy. This is now our second Vatican secret 509 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,560 to do with Nazis or third I've lost count here at this point. Two critics the Pontus refusal to 510 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:47,640 publicly condemn the Nazis represented a shameful moral failing with devastating consequences. 511 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:55,320 In his polarizing 1999 biography of Pius British journalist John Cornwell argued that the religious 512 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:01,800 leader placed the Papacy's supremacy above the plight of Europe's Jews winning a modicum of power 513 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:08,120 and protection from the rising threat of communism by becoming Hitler's Pope and pawn. Supporters 514 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:15,080 however say that Pius's silence was calculated to prevent German retaliation and ensure the continued 515 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:21,240 success of the Catholic Church's behind the scenes efforts to aid victims of Nazi persecution. 516 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,280 Documentation related to the Pope's wartime activities has long been housed in the Vatican 517 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:32,760 archives which remained largely close to researchers until earlier this year and this was during 518 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:39,560 COVID in 2020. Now historians examining new open files from the vast collections say they found 519 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:46,440 evidence detailed in German weekly Dizite that suggests Pius learned of the mass slaughter of 520 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:53,000 the Jews in fall 1942. The papers also indicate that on the advice of an advisor who dismissed 521 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,840 the reports as exaggerated the Pontiff told the United States government that the Vatican was unable 522 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:06,360 to confirm news of Nazi crimes. Interest in Pius's actions spiked in 1963 following the premiere of a 523 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:13,000 German play that portrayed the Pope as indifferent to European Jews suffering. In response to the 524 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,320 outcry sparked by the drama the Vatican published an 11 volume collection of the Pontus wartime 525 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:27,240 documents. The papers published in 1965 and 1981 are criticized as selective and insufficient according 526 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:33,720 to the New York Times Elizabetho the Leto. A crucial moment in Pius's relationship with the Nazis 527 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:41,000 arrived in 1933 when the then Cardinal spearheaded an agreement between the Germany Holy See and the 528 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:49,240 Third Reich. As Robert A Craig wrote in Jesuit publication America magazine in 2003 the so-called 529 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:55,560 Concordat was ambiguous in its day with Adolf Hitler treating it as a sign of international 530 00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,600 approval of the Nazi regime and the Vatican simply stating that it was made to protect the 531 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,520 church's interests. Adopting a stance of official neutrality the Vatican refused to yield to allied 532 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,640 pressure to speak out against the Nazis and since everyone wanted to claim the Pope was on their 533 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:17,560 side political leaders weren't going to publicly chastise him or accuse him of cozying up to fascists 534 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:24,760 or Nazis. David I Kurtzer author of The Pope in Mussolini the secret history of Pius the this one 535 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:32,840 has one less one. Pius C. 11. X1 Pius C. 11 and the rise of fascism in Europe told Times Olivia B. 536 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:38,360 Waxman in 2019. I would actually be curious if that means that like Pius C. 11 was followed by 537 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:44,360 Pius XII who kind of ruled over it while the war was happening whereas Pius C. 11 was during the 538 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:51,240 rise of fascist Italy. Yeah because this happens. I also find it very interesting that the U.S. was 539 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:58,200 asking the Pope hey what's going on in Europe when they had allies there and also there had never 540 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:05,160 been to that point a Catholic president like they've been Protestant all the way up so like they 541 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,680 shouldn't like the Catholic Church like hey do you think that the Pope knows more of what's going 542 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:16,600 on than anybody else we should ask him yeah hey Pope what's going on people what's going on people 543 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:24,600 dying her religion you bring up a good point per religion news services Tom Hennigan historian 544 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:31,240 Hubert Wolff and the University of Moenster and a team of German academics traveled to Rome for 545 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:37,560 the archives historic unveiling in early March Wolff's team was only able to conduct research 546 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,840 for a week before COVID-19 shuttered the archives in that short time span the scholars 547 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,200 discovered a host of documents that in Hennigan's words do not look good for Pius or the Catholic 548 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:56,840 Church on September 18 1942 Pius's assistant the future Pope Paul VI V1 yeah received an eyewitness 549 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:02,760 report of incredible butchery of Jews and Warsaw one month prior Ukrainian archbishop 550 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:09,960 Pondre Shiptych that's this f***ing out perfectly you can bet had delivered a similar report informing 551 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:17,160 the Pope of atrocities carried out in the Leviv ghetto reports Herets over Azeroth soon after the 552 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:23,400 United States envoy to the Vatican asked if it could corroborate accounts of mass killings in 553 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,720 Warsaw in Leviv in response Vatican secretary of state Luigi Moglioni do you think that's 554 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,000 Mary on Luigi's last name you know no their last name is Mario it's it's canon oh right 555 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,760 where did we state it I don't believe we have information that confirms the serious news in 556 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,480 detail while sifting through the papers the researchers also found a memo from the Vatican 557 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,200 staffer that warned against believing the reports dismissing these accounts on the grounds that 558 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:57,320 Jews easily exaggerate and orientals a reference to archbishop Schipensky are really not an example 559 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:03,400 of honesty the memo was conspicuously absent from the 11 volume collection published by the Vatican 560 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,920 in defense of Pius's reputation reports religion news service this is a key document that has been 561 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,280 kept hidden from us because it is clearly anti-Semitic and shows why Pius the 12th we're back to the 562 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:20,520 12th to not speak out against the Holocaust wolf tells Catholic weekly kerchief and leban as quoted 563 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:26,360 by religion news service under normal circumstances papers covering Pius's papacy would have been 564 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:32,760 under lock and key until 2028 or 70 years after the end of his tenure but last year at the gathering 565 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:38,600 marking the 80th anniversary of Pius's election Pope Francis announced the archives impending 566 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,880 opening telling those gathered that the church is not afraid of history rather she loves it 567 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:51,480 who is she the church the church okay speaking with Reuters illyp writers Lula in February 568 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:57,560 other Norbert Hoffman the Vatican's top official in charge of religious relations with Jews wow 569 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:04,520 added I don't think researchers will find a smoking gun was that religious relations with 570 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:12,120 Jews expert wrong Pius's supporters many of whom had advocated for the Pope's canonization I love 571 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:19,480 that word by the way I was thinking of getting blasted out of a cannon went out that the Catholic 572 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,680 church saved thousands of Jews by hiding them in churches and monasteries across Italy as well as 573 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:30,200 the Vatican itself though accolades argue that Pius's inaction in silence allowed these secret 574 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:36,440 actions to continue critic cite the treatment of Jews living in Rome during World War two as mpr's 575 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:43,080 Sylvia Pegg Leoli points out a plaque standing just 800 yards from st. Peter's square states 576 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:49,640 on october 16 1943 entire Jewish Roman families ripped from their homes by the Nazis were brought 577 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:55,560 here and then deported to extermination camps of more than a thousand persons only 16 survived 578 00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,360 Wolf says scholars are still in the early stages of determining the context surrounding the Pope's 579 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,480 actions we have to first check these newly available sources he tells kerchie and leban 580 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:11,080 if pious the 12th comes out of the study and the source is looking better that's wonderful if he 581 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,200 comes out looking worse we have to accept that too you to cope with 19 the Vatican plans to keep 582 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:22,840 its archive closed until summer at the earliest still says wolf to die zites Evelyn finger that's 583 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:28,360 a weird this article's a little out of days just a little well I thought it was so funny that the 584 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:34,600 Pope opened the archives with like being like we don't have anything to hide and like they found 585 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:41,000 all this stuff and then closed it immediately I can tell you that pious is not a dead pope convening 586 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,520 on journey to the fringe or maybe he is it's all very misty there's a lot of pious is they don't 587 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:52,040 differentiate themselves so it's hard to tell yeah however none of them are claiming to be this pious 588 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:58,520 very mystical and confusing and to finish up our episode I I wasn't prepared at how much 589 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:04,680 noxy talk there would be on this episode so I felt like some good news was in order because 590 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:11,640 good news includes aliens and UFOs because it makes us feel good so number four this is kind of five 591 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:18,120 it's hard to say though five they kind of mesh together very well yeah like five through eight 592 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:25,560 is that the secret the Vatican is hiding is evidence of aliens aliens are almost always the go to 593 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,240 cover up for many conspiracy theorists and the Vatican I mean if the number one answer for what 594 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:37,640 are you hiding is aliens if you were to ask anyone any person walking down the street what are you 595 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:44,360 hiding it's aliens guaranteed and the Vatican is no different than whoever's walking down the street 596 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:51,480 they're hiding aliens no exception some claim that in 1998 skulls with elongated heads and small 597 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,960 faces resembling the aliens from the alien franchise were found underneath the Vatican 598 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:04,200 apparently ever since the Vatican has kept all evidence of aliens secret not that that one was 599 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:10,120 really out in the open but ever since then everything else has been secret as to not discredit 600 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:16,520 Christianity some still believe that the Vatican has much more direct evidence of aliens with a few 601 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,440 even claiming that there are several live aliens tucked away inside the Vatican secret archive 602 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,400 I really hope that they're feeding those aliens that they have filed away in a filing cabinet 603 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:34,760 lest they disappear themselves like that one that John Lear talked about or less the aliens actually 604 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,960 believe in Jesus too like some of the aliens that I have come across but we've not yet done an 605 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,240 you know that could be the thing that that no if the Vatican wouldn't be hiding them if the aliens 606 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:51,640 also believed in Jesus oh no never mind guys yeah they would for sure tell us so why they would keep 607 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:57,720 aliens a secret and why such aliens would be living in the Vatican secret archive of all places 608 00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:05,400 is unknown except for by the Pope's well yeah and possibly the astronomers working for the 609 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:11,080 papacy they have that whole wing of astronomy through the church which I've always found weird 610 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:18,040 but they have it yeah it is a little bit weird but I mean they have a bank so they got lots of money 611 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,320 to like yeah look for extraterrestrial life that's okay I mean okay I have answers that's 612 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,200 probably what it is they're searching for extraterrestrial life probably that but 613 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,960 doesn't that mean they don't have it or are they searching for its home they got a T uh both okay 614 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:42,040 but that's it yeah that's it that's all they're looking for and that's all of the secrets that 615 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,640 I have for today well that's good and I think we can very safely just entitle this the Pope and 616 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:53,720 the Vatican's Nazi secrets because it was very squarely in that it was a little Nazi heavy 617 00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:01,560 yeah I would also be curious how many of those exorcisms happened to Nazis oh that's a good 618 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:08,040 question and importantly let's ask you guys right now uh we can wait we can speculate on it but most 619 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:13,320 importantly I want to know the success rate when you're performing 160 000 exorcisms you can't have 620 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:20,360 100% no well I mean maybe he like covers that up by saying like not many of them are actually yeah 621 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,920 and sorry this is this is outsider speculation that the talks with the devil were him getting 622 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:30,520 paid so there's that and also speculation on that one sorry go ahead oh I was just gonna say 623 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:36,040 he said like very few were actually possessions so at what point do you start counting them 624 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:45,880 or obviously not all of them real like then why do you have 160 000 exorcisms under your belt sir 625 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:53,320 it sounds like a liar immediately mm-hmm and the one thing I'm also concerned with is is it like 626 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:59,800 taking like medicine and if you don't get it gone the whole way does it make it worse so did he end 627 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:05,720 up with like super exorcisms after screwing up a few exorcisms there is a lot of questions and I 628 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:11,800 think I can answer for you yes if it's not gone the whole way like you're only just pissing it off 629 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:17,240 and of course it comes back with more rage yeah okay it's it's exactly like antibiotics and just 630 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:24,920 like yeah it's exactly like that yeah okay and also just are like antibiotics gotta take them all the way 631 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:32,120 and just so that we can finish off the pope doesn't take a salary per se however retired 632 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:37,720 folks do get a pension which is 3300 per month because there's one retired pope right now pope 633 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:43,160 benedict who didn't die in office he retired he gets 3300 a month so an annual salary right around 634 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:50,520 40 000 dollars wow don't popes usually die yeah they die yeah so that's kind of an oddity but it 635 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,200 does go to show that they rely on volunteers all the way to the top well we learned a lot of new 636 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,360 things in the summer we learned way too much you pope sorry that screwed over a little bit you did 637 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,320 live a lavish life most of you so that that's you know what we'll talk about you when we get there 638 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,720 anyhow I have been taylor here with chelsea we are journey to the fringe thank you all for 639 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:20,360 listening we'll see you next week goodbye thank you for listening to journey to the fringe if you 640 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:27,640 have liked what you have listened to please like share subscribe or follow depending on what venue 641 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:33,720 you are listening to us through also please if possible leave a five star review as that really 642 00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:38,840 helps us in the algorithms should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your 643 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:44,280 social media of choice I bet you we are there and if you really want to communicate with us and 644 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:49,240 give us ideas for new episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible either way please send 645 00:41:49,240 --> 00:42:00,600 us an email at journey to the fringe at gmail.com for now I'll see you in the next episode