1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,000 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,720 Hello and welcome to Journeys to the Fringe, where our research is generally better than 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,320 the assholes we cover. 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,880 And somehow they're the ones that make a career of this. 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,480 Go fish here. 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,600 We are your slightly salty podcast hosts, Taylor and Chelsea here continuing on with 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,320 one of these said researchers, David Politis. 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:38,000 If you didn't listen to part one, there's some stuff you should know, I think, before 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000 we continue on. 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,000 So please go back and listen. 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,840 Long story short, he technically was a cop. 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:44,960 He says he retired. 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,320 I shouldn't say technically a cop. 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,840 He was a cop. 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,600 He says he retired. 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,720 Technically I guess you could say that, but more accurately he was definitely fired. 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:54,720 Yeah, there's a difference. 18 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,400 Before doing uncoply behaviors, I think is a good way to put it. 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,080 And we'll just continue from here. 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,280 Yeah, I just want to say that was a harsh reality that you started off with. 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,240 We could be doing better. 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,840 To me, I think our last episode on David Politis is probably the most important one 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,240 because that's not what you're hearing talked about. 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,200 All the other stuff that I'm going to talk about today about him being an excellent researcher, 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,880 an excellent person, is going to be a really short episode. 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,720 It's just going to be debunking of the Missing 411. 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,920 What we talked about in the previous episode about his police brutality, in his, what was 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,800 it referred to of, solicitation that he got actually fired for. 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,560 To me is the bigger thing. 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,640 But yeah, today we're just going to tackle Missing 411, so let's just jump right into 31 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,640 it. 32 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,480 According to Politis, his work on the subject began when he was doing research in the National 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,160 Park and an off-duty Park Ranger found him an expressed concern about the questionable 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,200 nature of some of the missing person cases that occurred in the parks. 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,000 What was he doing that a Park Ranger is like, you know, I got to go to David Politis. 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,040 He's the guy who could break this. 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,920 I assume, so the Ranger, he says, knew Politis's background and asked him to research the issue. 38 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:15,520 No, he did not know his background. 39 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,080 I assume the background that he's talking about is Bigfoot. 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,640 Not the police brutality, solicitation, and the one. 41 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:24,960 Yeah, you hear those stories. 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,600 You're like, oh, this guy needs to, you know what, maybe he's like, this guy needs something. 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,080 I'm going to give him something. 44 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Yeah, he didn't even know who he was. 45 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,080 He was just like that guy right there. 46 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,080 Oh, that poor guy. 47 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,920 That guy looks like he needs something to do. 48 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:40,680 I assume it's Bigfoot. 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:47,760 So just in specul- speculizing, speculat-ationing, making speculation. 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speculatorying. 51 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,280 I think it's speculating. 52 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,880 Already someone who's into Bigfoot and would know David Politis about Bigfoot and the speculation 53 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,560 is of course that it was about Bigfoot. 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,800 But this guy, if that's what he's knowing him for, he's already a Bigfoot person. 55 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,240 I'm a Bigfoot person. 56 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,960 I'm into the paranormal things in life. 57 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,440 That's already what this guy's going to him with, right? 58 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,880 So he already is like of that mind going to Politis with this. 59 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,200 And I feel like Bigfoot people, they don't want to know the outside bad stuff about other 60 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,200 Bigfoot people. 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,560 They just want to focus on the good stuff together. 62 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,640 Yeah, the good stuff about Bigfoot. 63 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:33,840 So Politis is like out of the goodness of my heart, of course I will, and asserts that 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:40,000 he uncovered multiple lines of evidence suggesting negligence on the part of the park service 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,400 in failing to locate the missing people suggesting that there is some sort of cover-up happening. 66 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,920 This asserts that there are specific criteria in the missing person cases that must be met 67 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,800 in order to be considered by him in the missing 411 cases. 68 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,960 I started to develop some things that I call profile points. 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,440 And those are things that come up time and time again on these cases. 70 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,440 They are. 71 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,240 They're rural disappearances. 72 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,160 There's no suspects on the case. 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,120 No history of mental illness. 74 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,600 Can't be voluntarily disappeared. 75 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:12,600 Can't be A. 76 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:18,680 I wonder how often it comes up that he's like deep into researching a missing person and 77 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,160 it's like, oh wait, they wanted to disappear. 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,160 I just drop it. 79 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:29,000 I'm going to go on a limb after doing all this research and say that doesn't happen. 80 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,400 Not to spoil anything. 81 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,880 They can't be voluntary disappearances. 82 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,040 No evidence of animal attack. 83 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:43,760 Back of ascent of canine puppies for a scent trail, missing clothing or shoes, older fields 84 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,480 and berries are somehow related. 85 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:47,480 Right. 86 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,240 I forgot he did the berries stuff. 87 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,840 Yeah, the berries. 88 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:56,560 Bad weather found near creeks or bodies of water occur between 4 to 5 p.m. or slightly 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,560 later. 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,840 If found alive, they're found unconscious or semi-conscious. 91 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,960 And when questioned, they can't remember details about the event. 92 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,800 Low grade fevers are often involved and they're most often found in an area that had already 93 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,800 been searched. 94 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,200 So, he brought in his investigation to include missing people from across the world and this 95 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,920 led to his belief that he hasn't covered a mysterious series of worldwide disappearances, 96 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,880 which he said defied logical and conventional explanations. 97 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:32,080 There are now 10 missing 411 books, 3 missing 411 documentaries, one of which is called 98 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Missing 411 the UFO Connection, which I find weird that has to be the closest he's ever 99 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,360 come to saying it's something. 100 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,080 So I was shocked to see that. 101 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,120 So we've got Eastern United States, unexplained disappearances of North Americans that have 102 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:51,160 never been solved, Western United States and Canada, unexplained disappearances of North 103 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,120 Americans that have never been solved, North America and beyond. 104 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,200 That's its own North American beyond. 105 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:05,840 The Devils and the Details, a sober and coincidence, Hunters, Off the Grid, Law, Canada and Montana. 106 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:06,840 Those are all the books. 107 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,720 I probably said that really weird so it sounds like all one book, but they're all different 108 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:11,720 books. 109 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,320 They're all 10 of them I just named. 110 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,320 You can't see the points that I have. 111 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,120 You're probably thinking now like this sounds very mysterious. 112 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,720 What way is this guy gonna take this? 113 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:22,720 I don't know. 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:23,800 I mean go listen to his interviews. 115 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,560 You can see where he takes it yourself. 116 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,400 This is not what this podcast is, that's just telling you what he's up to. 117 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,720 He's already covered that. 118 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,000 Yeah, he's covered it. 119 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,600 I've covered what Nassaly is in the first one. 120 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,760 Now let's just check out the critiques of his work. 121 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,920 Probably one of the biggest ones is that people go missing for various reasons and just are 122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,680 plain never found. 123 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Everywhere. 124 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,000 It doesn't have to be paranormal means. 125 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,880 I want to think it is personally, but the odds are so minuscule that it's actually something 126 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:54,880 paranormal. 127 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:55,880 Yeah. 128 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:02,160 I happily accept that it's aliens, reptilians, boulder rock people. 129 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,320 The options are limitless and that's what is so appealing to these people because he's 130 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:12,160 not to me and these people because he doesn't say. 131 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,320 So your mind just wanders like crazy. 132 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,000 It's like a horror movie where they never show the bad ghost, right? 133 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,520 Like you can think of how scary it is, but the minute they show it, it's like, oh that 134 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:22,520 sucks. 135 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,360 But it is really where all more movies lose their rewatch value is what they actually 136 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,360 are. 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,240 Oh yeah, when you show them monster. 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:36,000 Reasons for going missing in real life and probably most of his cases can include an individual 139 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,840 deliberately wanting to disappear to find a new identity, falling or a sudden health 140 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:47,960 crisis leading to a lone person becoming immobilized off trail, drowning, a bear or other animal 141 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,720 attack, environmental exposure or even deliberate disappear. 142 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,520 I just said that they make him up again. 143 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Sorry. 144 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,760 In advance for anything that comes up more than once. 145 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,040 I do what I can. 146 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,120 These cases are not outside the frequency that one would expect or that there is anything 147 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,720 unexplainable that I was able to identify. 148 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:13,280 They're just regular missing persons cases, which I admit I am compelled by as well. 149 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,920 Just like unsolved mysteries. 150 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,440 You love it because there's no answer. 151 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,920 And I'm sorry to say love it because these are people who have families who are actually 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,000 it been impact dealing with this. 153 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,960 So I hate to say it that way. 154 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,960 I'm sorry. 155 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,560 But there's a huge market for true crime and stuff like that. 156 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,840 And it's it's very popular. 157 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,560 There's something about not knowing the answer. 158 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:37,560 Exactly. 159 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:41,200 Not only that, there's a huge market for not having an answer. 160 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,200 Oh yes. 161 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,840 And presenting it as being mysterious. 162 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,240 People want to know. 163 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,280 They want to know what the end result is. 164 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,120 They want closure when it comes to these things. 165 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,920 So there's something that's very fascinating. 166 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,920 I don't think with happened to this person. 167 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:00,040 I think in the unsolved persons or missing persons entire podcast genre, they don't want 168 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,160 to know the answer. 169 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,920 They just want to be able to speculate or think about all the different possibilities. 170 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,640 They don't want an actual. 171 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,960 In the end, that's Eva Plato's job. 172 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,080 Another big critique is the fact that people have independently looked into some of his 173 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,280 account and found major flaws that polite us does not correct. 174 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,040 Details like polite us claiming a person was never found. 175 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,840 But there are newspaper reports that the person was found a short time later. 176 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,160 Our polite is claiming no one knows why a person went missing when the missing person 177 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,320 contacted the news family or police to state why they ran off. 178 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,760 Some of the reasons people have given for going missing include avoiding abusive relationships. 179 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,200 Tired of being around host guests that overstay their welcome. 180 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,840 And so on. 181 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,240 So the fact that David Pallatus constantly tries to play up the paranormal angle is a 182 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,840 much lesser problem than the fact that you can't trust his version of events that are 183 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,680 being put forth by him. 184 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:07,200 Just a speculation on my part that this could be why he's self publishing because he's 185 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,960 not actually publishing correct facts. 186 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,680 And then just nobody wanted to publish it. 187 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,400 Yeah, not that it was wrong that they didn't want to publish it. 188 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,400 True. 189 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,520 I mean, I mean, you're going to have to factor it. 190 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:21,520 But yeah. 191 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,520 Yeah. 192 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,240 And also, yeah, there's no actual editor involved in his process. 193 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,240 I don't think either. 194 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,320 So nobody reviewing his research. 195 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,120 If he doesn't want it, then he doesn't have to have it. 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,440 A blog from one of the largest missing persons website on the internet. 197 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:35,440 Yep. 198 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,160 Are there non-internet blogs now? 199 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,160 There are non-internet websites. 200 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,160 Yes. 201 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,160 Okay. 202 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,840 I assume that's the newspaper. 203 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,320 Largest missing persons website reviewed one of the books in 2012. 204 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,440 They said some interesting things like the children being found impossibly far away. 205 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,080 But they also point out that it's never mentioned by David that two cases are thought to be serial 206 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,320 killer victims. 207 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,200 That would be both Thomas Bowman and Bruce Kremen, two of the people profiled in the book 208 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,400 and they are presumed victims of the serial killer, Mac Ray Edwards. 209 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,640 A fact, Pallatus fails to mention or correct. 210 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,800 Some of Pallatus's cases also go back a century or more, which would mean that some of those 211 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,160 people are not listed with law enforcement or on missing persons databases anywhere, 212 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:29,560 which is something he really gloms onto that there's no list or anything that he can find 213 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:30,560 in. 214 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,080 So he's independently doing all this research himself. 215 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:38,080 If you go back that far, we're talking about Pinkerton was just coming up with his investigation 216 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,720 skills from stumbling across those foragers. 217 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,480 No, some of them are that far back. 218 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,280 You would know that from listening to literally any interview. 219 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,000 He brings up really old cases. 220 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,160 Which I mean, if you have anything, you wouldn't be pulling anything from that long ago. 221 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,480 Another case where he never discusses the evidence of drug use at the camp where they 222 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,840 originated or positive drug screen, a case included in one of his books where a football 223 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,200 player was acting weird while drug use was brought up. 224 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,200 It's never been brought up. 225 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:12,000 The autopsy showed the victim had CTE, which is a 226 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,600 A concussion based brain issue. 227 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:20,320 One of the cases of a missing ranger is showcased on a show called disappeared, showed the ranger 228 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,440 to be depressed due to his divorce and life choices. 229 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:24,960 This is someone telling the story. 230 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,360 Sorry, I should have said that someone talking here. 231 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,760 The person claims he told David this and he said all the reports he had on the case didn't 232 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,920 show that the ranger was depressed due to divorce and life choices. 233 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:36,920 So that's another thing. 234 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,280 David won't contact survivors because before he wrote the book, he talked to search and 235 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,640 rescue people and said, don't. 236 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,920 So while he has talked to some relatives, it's not every case disappeared, had several 237 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,480 people directly involved in the disappearance speak on camera and didn't just go by reports 238 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,080 like David did for the case. 239 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,080 Yeah. 240 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,520 And when I've seen that he actually interviews family or people involved in the case, it's 241 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,240 generally because they disagree with what the reports found. 242 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,880 So he wants to use that. 243 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:05,880 Yeah. 244 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:12,960 I actually found a Reddit, good old Reddit that goes through case by case in great detail. 245 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,640 There's a lot of them and just tears them apart in absolute detail. 246 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,080 They find the original account, Plotus's research, there's charts, news articles, so and so on, 247 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:29,280 lots of information that's just not accurate on David Plotus's part of his reporting. 248 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:35,080 All in all, he misleads on cases, uses inaccurate information and makes bold claims on the case 249 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,080 being mysterious based on inaccurate information. 250 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,480 For example, going missing and traveling in total darkness during the night versus going 251 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:48,080 missing in the morning, which he says is a criteria of his, which he just ignores. 252 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,240 That's just one. 253 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:55,280 So Kyle Pollock did an article looking into the missing 411 books titled, quote, an investigation 254 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,400 of the missing 411 conspiracy. 255 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,560 He took the book, missing 411, Western United States in Canada and a random number generator 256 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:07,480 and selected several pages of the Hyman's categorical imperative, which is do not try 257 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,520 to explain something until you are sure there is something to be explained to start. 258 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,640 First off, he found Plotus did not make any disappearances up. 259 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:16,640 Point one, Plotus. 260 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:17,640 Good job. 261 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:18,640 He didn't make anything up. 262 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,280 I think that's the first good thing we've actually said. 263 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,280 Yeah. 264 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:23,280 It is. 265 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:24,280 Yeah. 266 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,640 That should go on his book, did not make anything up. 267 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,400 That's a quote. 268 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:36,120 Yet both cases are banal and devoid of any apparently unusual qualities, just random 269 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,120 disappearances. 270 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:42,640 But then the author finds these random duties, quote, the oldest victim in my audit involved 271 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:47,720 a 69 year old hiker climbing Mount Shasta, moving alone in wind conditions estimated 272 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,520 at 70 miles per hour. 273 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,320 Once he split off from his companions, he was never seen again. 274 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,520 I was finding these cases to be fairly mundane until I arrived at the hiker's disappearance. 275 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,120 Following a deadpan factual reporting of the details, Plotus quotes a local person saying 276 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,400 cryptically that according to local legend, beings called Lemurians lived underneath Mount 277 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:08,400 Shasta. 278 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,320 Maybe the Lemurians got Carl. 279 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,200 The text is decorated sparsely with this and other head scratching non sequit- quitters? 280 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,040 Non sequitur. 281 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,040 Don sequitur. 282 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,240 Just completely unrelated. 283 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,760 For example, in the last case of my brief audit, a woman named Amy disappears while 284 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:26,880 exercising. 285 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,240 Her body was never recovered, but her wristwatch was found in a riverbed years later. 286 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,440 Plotus points out that years after that, a woman named Anne disappeared from the same 287 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,440 place. 288 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,720 He felt the need to point out that both of their names start with A and their first names 289 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,440 only had three letters. 290 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:48,280 I can only presume Plotus is open to the possibility that some nefarious Batman villain is at work 291 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,280 in this area. 292 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:50,760 Beware of the three letter killers. 293 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,640 I remember that too and he was talking about people going missing in cities and the German 294 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:55,640 background. 295 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:56,640 Yeah. 296 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,320 Then you get things like the fact that Barry's and Barry Bush's play a common role in many 297 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,720 disappearances is quite intriguing. 298 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:04,920 End quote by Pollock. 299 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,000 I'm gonna go more into what he has to say, but he's kinda... 300 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,240 I don't know how he's coming to these conclusions of what these people have in common. 301 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,720 It's almost like he's looking for anything. 302 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,640 Anything that can tie one to another. 303 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:19,640 A's. 304 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:20,640 Literally A's. 305 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:21,640 Literally Barry Bush's. 306 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,480 Like, where are you gonna go into a bush and there's not Barry Bush's? 307 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,760 Yeah, that's kind of wilderness needs to eat. 308 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:27,760 Yeah. 309 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:28,760 That's true. 310 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,560 I'm frankly shocked that Lemuria came up in this episode. 311 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:33,560 Yep. 312 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:34,560 It did. 313 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,760 We should end an episode on it if you want to go back. 314 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,760 We sure have. 315 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,920 We always need to tie another episode into an episode. 316 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,640 Palatus describes the pattern of these cases. 317 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,200 The pattern consists of some loose criteria such as victims found deceased with clothing 318 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,600 removed, pants, shoes, or boots, typically. 319 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,200 Easily explained by paradoxical undressing. 320 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,760 Taylor brought it up in the last episode. 321 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,040 That's the word. 322 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,720 This is a condition found in people experiencing hypothermia who feel irrationally hot and 323 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,320 remove clothing to cool themselves. 324 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,600 Yeah, it's basically when you're about to die, your body releases the heat from the 325 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:12,440 vital organs to the rest of the body, which makes you feel very warm and people get undressed 326 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,160 when they're dying of hypothermia in the middle of winter. 327 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:20,880 Very easy to even dive exposure in the middle of summer when you're in the middle of woods 328 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,560 for a couple of days when it gets down. 329 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 We're used to the comfort of our home and stuff like that. 330 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,160 And when you don't know how to survive in the wilderness over a few days and you're 331 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,280 losing that heat and have nothing to keep you warm, this is what's going to happen, 332 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,000 even though it seems illogical for us to want to keep warm. 333 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,480 And he's saying there's a big mystery to it. 334 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,400 This also applies with the low grade fever that he has as a part of his criteria with 335 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,680 the paradoxical undressing. 336 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,440 Another is a deceased body recovered but found a distance or elevation away from the last 337 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,880 known whereabouts that defies common sense. 338 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,400 However, he doesn't talk about alive people that this has happened to. 339 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,160 People can move and gain a lot of ground. 340 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:06,160 Yeah. 341 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,360 And in fact, they can go to places where people have looked for them. 342 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,920 It's just, it's kind of like one of the rules that you're supposed to do when you're lost 343 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,160 is not move, but people do it all over brick and time. 344 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,160 And that's part of the problem is they end up in tracks and they work again. 345 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,400 Yeah, we're going to bring that up as well. 346 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,440 He loves to say whatever amount of distance is far. 347 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,000 It's against all odds. 348 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,360 I don't believe it. 349 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,200 It's impossible. 350 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,520 Which he uses especially with children. 351 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,800 And to back this up, he uses a search and rescue manual to quote that 95% of missing 352 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,520 seven year olds are found within a 4.5 mile radius. 353 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,600 You still have 5% who are going to be found outside of that 4.5 mile radius. 354 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,960 We're not found at all. 355 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,280 This means rescuers expect to find some children outside of this radius. 356 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,880 Finding a seven year old who traveled 10 to 15 miles is usually more difficult than finding 357 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,520 a seven year old who only traveled two miles. 358 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Yeah. 359 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,080 Well, just think of how much area you have to cover because they could have walked seven 360 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,920 miles in any direction. 361 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,800 So that just exponentially increases how far you have to go. 362 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,800 Yeah. 363 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,120 And if a child is not found, we do not know how far they traveled. 364 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:17,800 This means the stats are incomplete regarding how far children walk. 365 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,800 That's a fair point. 366 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:24,280 A seven year old walking seven miles is not evidence that there is a missing 4.1.1 abductor 367 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,520 in the first place and many children are capable of walking considerable distances. 368 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,600 Despite live people doing this, most of these supposedly common self-defying distances 369 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,200 polite is mentions are just a few miles. 370 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:42,760 All it goes on to say granted, terrain and conditions have a huge impact on lost hikers. 371 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,720 I don't want to dismiss anything outright due to low magnitude, but I don't find anything 372 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,080 exceptional in the cases I reviewed. 373 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,560 The strangest case I recall was a hiker who was found three days later, 14 miles from 374 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,040 his last known location. 375 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,120 To me, a hiker, this is not an implausible distance to cover in that time. 376 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,480 I just want to say while I'm thinking of it, another one is bad weather around the 377 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:10,560 disappearance, which could also explain why the person is missing in the first place because 378 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,120 they get disoriented. 379 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,280 There's some freak weather event that happens to 380 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,440 Impact the path or the trail. 381 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,280 Impact the path of the person who's on the trail. 382 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,840 Yes, thank you. 383 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,720 Another criterion is to not actually be missing. 384 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,760 A minority of cases in the catalogue involved missing people who were recovered alive. 385 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,360 Curiously, they all seem to be young children. 386 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:36,240 I suppose an adult gone missing and found can self attest that their missing time was 387 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,000 explained by ordinary circumstances. 388 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,080 Children may not have the same developmental functions to coherently account for their 389 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,600 whereabouts, thus leaving a gap to be filled with the possibility of something unusual. 390 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,200 I do believe he talks about a child that says that they were taken by a bear. 391 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,160 I was also just going to say that children also lie just all the time. 392 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,160 Yes, you've come up before in this podcast. 393 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,320 Strangely nuts. 394 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,320 They sure do. 395 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,000 They make shit up. 396 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,160 With such imprecise criteria, it seems Flaity's considers himself the only person fully qualified 397 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,000 to identify a missing person's case as belonging to the missing 411 or not. 398 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,280 The proposed unusualness of these cases. 399 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,600 Wait, Elsie, are missing 411 cases like your criteria for a Fringy Mini? 400 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,600 It might be. 401 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:23,600 You know what? 402 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,800 It's a good cataloging system, okay? 403 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,080 I would not be surprised if someone else is using it. 404 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,840 I should trademark it. 405 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,240 I should send them a cease and desist. 406 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,200 And ask for an autograph too. 407 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,200 The proposed unusualness of these cases seems hardly greater than one would find for a rare 408 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,800 and unplanned occurrence such as a disappearance. 409 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,000 Basically, he's just taking disappearances and putting them into a book. 410 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,280 Flaity's relies heavily on look at all these cases, even if one or two explainable, it 411 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,720 can all be explainable, which doesn't equal something mysterious happening, unfortunately. 412 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,400 No, that also means that you're kind of lazy in how you're putting a book together if 413 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,160 you're just throwing them all in and say sure, some of these can be explained. 414 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,360 I mean, you see the same thing with UFOs, but surely you can apply the same logic to 415 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:16,360 this. 416 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:21,880 Another point Flaity's makes is that there are disproportionately large amounts of people 417 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,920 disappearing from national parks. 418 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,680 Turns out, if anything, you're less likely to disappear from a national park than from 419 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,200 a major city. 420 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,440 Hundreds of thousands and more visit the national parks each year, and in those people visiting, 421 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,920 there are a whole lot of dummies. 422 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,680 You see them in headlines. 423 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,760 They want to pet bison, they want to feed the wildlife, and you know, people want to 424 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,000 go on hikes. 425 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,320 We really could just make Friggin Minis out of these ridiculous stories and we would 426 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,520 never run out of them because people do not know how to act in nature. 427 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,200 These are the people going into national parks and of course some of them are going to want 428 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,040 to go hiking and they're not going, they're feeding wild animals. 429 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,000 Yeah, they heard about it on TV once, they want to try it out. 430 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,000 And they're not going to go into the wild, like think about like Grand Canyon National 431 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Park, someone's going to be like, I want to hike and they're not prepared for the environment 432 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,400 that they're going into. 433 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,080 Of course something's going to happen. 434 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,000 Yeah, I mean, every time you read a headline that says Florida man and then it's continued 435 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,400 from there, that person has the potential to go into a national park and want to go hiking. 436 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,040 And go missing. 437 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,720 As an aside from this article, I'm giving you this information from which is the Kiopolic 438 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,720 one. 439 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,400 I'd like to add that on an interview on Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell, great episode 440 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,720 actually to listen to. 441 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,520 Art Bell actually asked him some good questions. 442 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,200 He doesn't know how to answer. 443 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,360 Art questions him and says, is this outside of the expected norm? 444 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,720 People going missing versus people visiting the park. 445 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,160 Are there more disappearances in the parks based on our expectation of national averages? 446 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,840 Let's hear the numbers. 447 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,040 Take your number of mysterious disappearances, divide the amount of people that visit the 448 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,840 parks and do it for North America. 449 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,840 What do we get? 450 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,280 Lightest says, no, thank you. 451 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,280 Just kidding. 452 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:06,000 What he actually says is I'd be playing into their hands by giving you a number. 453 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,760 That's literally what he says. 454 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,400 At this point, I'd be playing into their hands by giving you a number. 455 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,360 There's people that are against him. 456 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,480 It's the National Park Service, obviously. 457 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,480 Oh, yes. 458 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,000 Yeah, there's a conspiracy about them. 459 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,360 You know, that's also a part of his misinformed one-munch deck. 460 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,920 I thought the whole thing was just they were too lazy to put the list together. 461 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:27,920 I don't know. 462 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,360 He really gets it out there that there's a conspiracy with the National Park Service 463 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:33,360 being in. 464 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:36,440 There's a conspiracy about the National Parks because they're finding stairs in the middle 465 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840 of nowhere and not anything. 466 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,840 But yeah, he definitely alludes to as well that the National Park Service is in on whatever 467 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840 is going on. 468 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,440 So yeah, he won't give a number. 469 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,280 So we don't even know if it's like that big of a problem or not. 470 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,080 He says it's a huge problem. 471 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Back to Pollock, his article. 472 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,800 In regards to Politis, claims about exorbitant amounts of money for the National Park Service 473 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,640 to provide a list of missing peoples or they don't keep a list. 474 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,640 So on and so on. 475 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,200 Pollock spoke with a National Park Service Public Affairs representative about the handling 476 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,360 of missing persons cases. 477 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:17,400 Cases are entered into the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, N-L-E-T-S. 478 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,080 This is a federated data sharing system used by law enforcement nationwide. 479 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,040 I await proof that any cases failed to be entered. 480 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,880 Obviously, the Park Service is going to go to law enforcement in the case that someone 481 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,640 is missing or found deceased. 482 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,880 Obviously, they have some means to go in and see what's going on. 483 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,120 But it's not like they're not going to contact anybody. 484 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:42,960 That actually is of the law and they're not like a governing body of law. 485 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,120 So they obviously have people. 486 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:50,360 For the most part, they're making sure that people are staying on trails and driving. 487 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:51,360 Looking after the park. 488 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,360 Yeah. 489 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:53,360 Yeah. 490 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:54,880 Like they got another job that isn't search and rescue. 491 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,760 Search and rescue does search and rescue. 492 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,600 And they're dealing with the idiots trying to feed wild life. 493 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,240 They're not going to go searching. 494 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,480 Like some of these people are a part of the search and rescue. 495 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,560 Yeah, that's the secondary to their actual job there. 496 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,960 Obviously, actual law enforcement is where the information is going to be tracked, not 497 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,240 through like a list on a piece of paper kept by the Park Service. 498 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,640 So I'm actually not sure what Pallatus is looking for here. 499 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,480 Now that I think about it too, why would the different national parks need to share this 500 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,680 information with each other? 501 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,840 Because national parks are big enough that they just deal with people missing in their 502 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:29,840 area. 503 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,840 Exactly. 504 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,520 And Pallatus is like, oh, well, they keep a list of movies filmed there. 505 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,880 And he actually says like the Western National Park Service keeps a list of movies that are 506 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,880 filmed there. 507 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,400 And it's like Western National Park. 508 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,960 So it's almost like they don't have to share that information as well, which would just 509 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:47,960 be for fun. 510 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,400 So it's almost like he's just kind of blowing hot air to find something that, you know, 511 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,040 people are going to be like, they should be keeping a list. 512 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,400 They absolutely should. 513 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,680 But like when you look at it logically like that, like no, they shouldn't. 514 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,920 It would just be someone like writing down, yeah, this person went missing in this park, 515 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:10,240 in which case I too would charge him exorbitant amounts of money to put that list together. 516 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,840 The list goes on with points, but those are the most interesting. 517 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,320 The rest are kind of bull claims with nothing to back them up by Pallatus, not Pollak, or 518 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,080 simply leaving out facts, whether he's aware of them or not. 519 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,920 Pollak says, I won't take the books of gospel. 520 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,120 And if any case interests you that Pallatus talks about, hit Google and dig deeper. 521 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,640 Missing 411 research boils down. 522 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,640 This is not Pollak anymore. 523 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,640 It's me. 524 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,640 So we're getting to the good stuff. 525 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,760 Missing 411 research boils down to Pallatus believing or disbelieving things, not Pallatus 526 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,280 collecting evidence and confirming things. 527 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,200 He reaches conclusions without sufficient evidence. 528 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,000 He beats around the bush saying he won't give an answer. 529 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,880 However, it's obvious he's not pointing to anything mundane. 530 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,760 He alludes to it being aliens or portals or paranormal of some sort. 531 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,600 You think it's because he would also have to put work in like more work to actually 532 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,600 give an answer? 533 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Or do you think it's the miscreasable support part? 534 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,680 He knows the audience. 535 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,280 He's on the specific circuit of paranormal. 536 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,680 He knows who he's trying to sell these to. 537 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,480 Pallatus gives no reason for these disappearances, but finds odd correlations for them, which 538 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:22,600 we already talked about. 539 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,080 For example, the Amy and Anne thing. 540 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,560 In his analysis, he concludes with, I've exhausted my exploration for anything gen- oh no, this 541 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,560 is someone researching. 542 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,480 I've exhausted my exploration for anything genuinely unusual. 543 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,000 After careful review, to me not a single case stands out, nor do the frequencies involved 544 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,520 seen outside of expectations. 545 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,520 Is a quote from someone. 546 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,120 I'm sorry, you should be named, but you're not. 547 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,560 Another belief you're going to like is how he argues against serial killers, which if 548 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,880 you remember two of the cases he uses are actually thought to be victims of a serial 549 00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,880 killer. 550 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:06,600 It's that he lives in Colorado and 80% of the people on trails are armed. 551 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,920 This is why it can't be serial killers. 552 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,120 That's the reason he gives. 553 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,120 Okay. 554 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,120 God, he's one of those people too. 555 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,360 Oh man, that argument when there's like a school shooting, we need to just have more 556 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360 people with guns. 557 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,360 Yeah. 558 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,360 He's one of those people, isn't he? 559 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,360 It has to be. 560 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,360 Like what? 561 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,920 Who's going hiking out in the wilderness armed? 562 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,320 Can you imagine going on like an all day hike being armed? 563 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,920 I mean, we live in Canada, so maybe I'm off on that perspective, but surely this can't 564 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,920 be right. 565 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,920 Yeah. 566 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,680 80% of people on trails are armed. 567 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,640 I mean, Americans who listen, you may know better than us, but this just feels wrong. 568 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,640 It just feels wrong. 569 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,560 If we're out of line here, like please let us know, it just feels so wrong. 570 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,560 So this is. 571 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,680 Hikers and gun advocates just seem like different groups in my mind. 572 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,840 Yeah, that's his reason. 573 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,760 A lot of his points he specifically looks at to narrow down his cases can be debunked 574 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,760 as well. 575 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,440 People found in an area that has already been searched. 576 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,800 People do tend to walk in circles if they lost and even circle back. 577 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,360 So this is why they're searching most areas more than once in the first place and also 578 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,440 why they say stay put if you get lost so somebody can find you and you're not, you know, leaving 579 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,240 an area they're about to search. 580 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,240 And then you come up behind them. 581 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,680 That people are found near bodies of water. 582 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,080 Typically people will also seek out bodies of water like rivers to follow when they're 583 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,080 lost. 584 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,280 And not only that, lots can happen if you're already in water in the first place. 585 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,720 You can have a heart attack in the water. 586 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,600 You can get a poisonous bug bite. 587 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,600 You can slip and fall and hit your head. 588 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,280 So much stuff can happen and bam, you're how many miles downstream in water at a ridiculous 589 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,280 distance away. 590 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,480 And yeah, it's usually easy trail right beside water too. 591 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,480 Yep. 592 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,480 People like the water. 593 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,120 They have to look at it and so on. 594 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,120 Things about water. 595 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,280 You could go on about water. 596 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,040 Exactly. 597 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,040 Missing without a trace. 598 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560 Obviously, this is part of the appeal of what he's talking about. 599 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,720 However, this is obviously a selection bias when you're looking at national parks, which 600 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,720 are huge. 601 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,800 You're going to have more people who do actually go missing without a trace than in a city 602 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,720 where there's cameras and stuff like that. 603 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,700 And it even happens in cities. 604 00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:23,880 So you put that in a national park. 605 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,560 Obviously it's going to be higher. 606 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,880 Additionally, some have criticized the lack of peer reviewed research or scientific worker 607 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,880 in his work. 608 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,440 Again, he's self publishing. 609 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,440 He doesn't have to as well as the absence of transparency regarding his investigative 610 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,440 methods. 611 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,000 I think we did narrow that down. 612 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,920 We're on the same system as the my fringy minis. 613 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,600 Great system by the way. 614 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:45,600 Very reliable. 615 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,280 If that's not a criticism, that's one of his problems. 616 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,280 Yes. 617 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,160 The guy loves to not speculate on what it is. 618 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,360 I know I've said it before. 619 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:58,040 I think it's for a few reasons, but he says if he does that, if he gives a reason and then 620 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,680 he goes and interviews a family member, someone who's gone missing and they see him say it's 621 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,320 Bigfoot, his credibility is out the window. 622 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,320 Yeah, gone. 623 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,560 He says Bigfoot gone. 624 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,080 The person won't want to talk to him. 625 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,600 I love that argument for him because I'm betting he thinks no one knows why he's actually 626 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,120 not a credible person. 627 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,240 If they knew about the police brutality, I keep saying it and it's slipping my mind 628 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,240 now. 629 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,240 Listen to the first episode. 630 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,240 Go back if you forgot. 631 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,000 I don't have time right now, but that's actually why he's not a credible person. 632 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,040 So if I didn't already have you convinced that this guy's a shitty person, I have some 633 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,080 stories shared by redditors that I just don't think I have enough time for, but let me share 634 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,680 some of the highlights. 635 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,720 They don't like that he masquerades as a former police officer doing excellent research 636 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,680 when he's used his position to fraudulently obtain something out of it. 637 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,120 He doesn't research his case as well, often getting information incorrect, then self-publishes 638 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,120 incorrect information and does not correct it. 639 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,880 When faced with any criticism say of incorrect information, he gets angry and is quick to 640 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,200 fly off the handle. 641 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,080 When faced with a question he doesn't want to answer, he tells people to go read the 642 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,080 book. 643 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,400 It sounds like you haven't read the book and just misses them. 644 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,760 He says that a lot on like his interviews that he does. 645 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,040 Well yeah, and it's because there's not enough time to actually get into each case. 646 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,640 So it's a very easy way to avoid it. 647 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,800 And in fact, generally when you see people trying to say in criticism, that's taken 648 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,800 out of context. 649 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,520 It's so easy to just say and never have to go back. 650 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,880 Yeah, that's true. 651 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,520 Which leads me to the difficult ego, which I could see him having coming from the positions 652 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,200 he's held and situations he's been in. 653 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,040 Lacks professionalism, it's a sales job, he's not a dumb guy. 654 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,440 He was scamming celebrities, now he is using data presenting it as high strangeness and 655 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,600 touring the conspiracy conferences. 656 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,360 His books are vanity publishing, he has not been offered a book deal that has ever been 657 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,360 mentioned. 658 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,600 He's fascinated by the intrigue of 411. 659 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,200 People love mysteries, people love true crime. 660 00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,920 I love Serpo, it doesn't make it true or like anything actually mysterious is going on. 661 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,120 And that brings me to the end of David Pilatus. 662 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,120 Wow. 663 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,120 Yeah. 664 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,440 While you were talking to, I looked up his Wikipedia page. 665 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,440 Yeah. 666 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,160 There's no section for criticism, which really surprised me. 667 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,600 And it's a lot of the stuff that really stays under the radar. 668 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,520 Wikipedia is one of the best for criticizing things. 669 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,560 I know for people in this category. 670 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,000 And I find it also funny that it has nothing about his police work on there and him being 671 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,000 fired. 672 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,840 Outside of like a brief statement. 673 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Because this can all easily be sourced to be put onto there and added onto that page. 674 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,320 So I found that interesting because Wikipedia is usually on it to debunk something very 675 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,320 quickly. 676 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,320 Yeah. 677 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,320 Right. 678 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,320 Yeah. 679 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,560 So yeah, Chelsea, thank you for that just because I do, I did like listening to David 680 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,440 Pilatus just like he's a, he's a good talker. 681 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,320 Even if the stuff he's saying is utter garbage. 682 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,320 I know. 683 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,880 They usually are to get that far. 684 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:05,240 It makes me think we could probably do a similar thing if we wanted to sell some books because 685 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:07,800 people obviously really like the missing people. 686 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,840 All you got to say is we don't know what happened, but it's probably really mysterious. 687 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:12,840 Yeah. 688 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,840 Then we just make a book about it. 689 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,480 We just got to find the time. 690 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,480 Yeah. 691 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,120 So we won't do it. 692 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,080 Here we are spending our time on actual research into these horrible people. 693 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,080 You're welcome. 694 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,080 Yes. 695 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,800 And with that, Chelsea, thank you very much for this episode. 696 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,560 I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. 697 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,000 We are Journey to the Fringe. 698 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,920 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 699 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:35,920 Bye. 700 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,920 Okay. 701 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,920 You were a cop for 20 years. 702 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,200 20 years. 703 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,200 Regular cop? 704 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,120 I worked street crimes, detectives, SWAT team. 705 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,120 Okay. 706 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,120 Yeah. 707 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,120 Three or four different detective units. 708 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,120 Regular cop. 709 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,120 All right. 710 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,080 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 711 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:59,120 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow 712 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,440 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 713 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:08,600 Also please, if possible, leave a five-star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 714 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,400 If you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 715 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,160 I bet you we are there. 716 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,640 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 717 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:26,520 us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringe.com. 718 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:40,920 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.