1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,960 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,620 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where we too partake in New Year's resolutions 3 00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:24,320 and our New Year's resolution to you is more assholes all the time, but not just UFO assholes 4 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:25,320 now. 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,680 We have diversified and we will be looking at all kinds. 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,080 Except there, you know, there'll be people, the personification of the idea of an asshole. 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,760 So yeah, if you're looking for porn, it's not here. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:35,760 Sorry guys. 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,480 We are continuing our January tradition of historically looking at strikes that have 10 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:43,560 brought us to the world that we have for workers' rights. 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,920 Chelsea, today we're going to be looking at both a man and a company that have really 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,120 shaped our labor market as we see it today. 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,080 This episode is on the Pinkertons. 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,960 Now, Chelsea, have you ever heard this name? 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,320 Aside from our ongoing list of things to cover on the podcast, I have not. 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,320 Okay. 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,240 I just kept scrolling past it because I didn't know what it was. 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,560 Yeah, fair enough. 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,760 And you've actually mentioned them in the past before. 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,160 A few of our previous episodes are going to come up in this one, but I think this is 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:18,400 a good way to come into this episode because there's a lot to learn and there will be 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:19,840 some surprises along the way. 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,320 Oh, I love surprises. 24 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:22,320 Sometimes. 25 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:23,320 Sometimes. 26 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:24,600 I hope they're good surprises. 27 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,520 This one, I'm just going to spoil it a little bit right now. 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,400 There's no murder death cults in here. 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,400 So we're good. 30 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,920 We go so far as to say that is foreshadowing. 31 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,200 There may be some foreshadowing. 32 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:36,200 There will be death. 33 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,720 It will not be mass starvation. 34 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:38,720 Okay. 35 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,720 Well, that's good. 36 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,200 That surprises out of the way though. 37 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,960 Anyhow, let's get into our story and it starts with the birth of a man by the name of Alan 38 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:46,960 Pinkerton. 39 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:50,080 Surprisingly enough. 40 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,720 Now Mr. Pinkerton born baby Pinkerton in Glasgow in July of 1819. 41 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,080 He only went to school until he was 10 and then his father died. 42 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,840 And I should say a lot of this comes from Wikipedia and the Pinkerton's website itself. 43 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,560 There's some of it that's probably embellished. 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,720 I'll talk about them when I'm not sure if it actually happened or not. 45 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:10,720 Okay. 46 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:11,720 Okay. 47 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,200 So despite the fact that he left school at 10 years old, Pinkerton was still a voracious 48 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,760 reader and really liked to self educate. 49 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Turn out that's true, no idea because it doesn't really have anything to do with the story. 50 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,240 Just says he was a cooper by trade and he was active in the Scottish chartist movement 51 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,240 as a young man. 52 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,120 The chartists were basically the first people to say we need workers rights in the UK. 53 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,400 And actually it was super interesting. 54 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,680 I didn't know this, but before the chartists came along, it was actually illegal for anybody 55 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,080 who didn't own land to act as a member of parliament. 56 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,320 You had to own land, which basically means no workers could participate in parliament. 57 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,560 I think we've talked about that before, right? 58 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:48,560 I think I knew that. 59 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,000 Well, back in the day, there used to be you had to own land to vote and that was basically 60 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,000 the old style. 61 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,680 Also, there was no wage for working in parliament either. 62 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,800 So really, if you weren't rich outside of it, you couldn't be in parliament. 63 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,080 So like the chartist movement was a big push. 64 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,360 They got a few things changed. 65 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:06,360 Those are two of the things. 66 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,320 There was five things in total they did, but this is not a chartist episode. 67 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,320 So we're going to keep going. 68 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,320 Okay. 69 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,760 But weirdly paints him as kind of like a pro worker guy. 70 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:14,760 We'll talk about that later. 71 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,880 He also says that he was raised as a lifelong atheist. 72 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,360 Now, Pinkerton moves to the U.S. in 1842. 73 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:27,480 And in 1843, he settles down in Dundee Township, Illinois, which is 50 miles northwest of Chicago 74 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,720 on the Fox River. 75 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,480 He built a cabin there and he starts his own Coopridge, who we don't know anything about 76 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,800 because they don't mention her outside of this. 77 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,360 Is sent to move with him. 78 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,360 She was living in Chicago. 79 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:39,560 He's like, Hey, I built this cabin. 80 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Come live with me. 81 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,560 She says, okay. 82 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Remember, these are all thick, thick Scottish accents. 83 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,160 I was going to attempt it, but I want this to be listenable. 84 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:54,040 I was just gonna say, should we be doing that or is that a bad idea? 85 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,160 Well we don't actually have that much of a Scottish listening population. 86 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,200 So maybe, but didn't prep it. 87 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,640 So we'll do it a different time. 88 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,520 And they add this here as early as 1844. 89 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,840 Pinkerton was part of the Chicago abolitionist movement as one of its leaders and his Dundee 90 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,480 home was a stop on the Underground Railroad. 91 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,440 So helping freed slaves get to Canada. 92 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:15,440 Oh, that's good. 93 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:16,440 Yeah. 94 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,440 Nothing to substantiate it. 95 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:18,440 Okay. 96 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:19,440 Either of those. 97 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:20,440 That's neutral then. 98 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:21,440 Pinkerton, you know, he's got his Coopridge. 99 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,360 He's making barrels, but he starts to get into a bit of criminal detective work in a 100 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:26,920 very strange way. 101 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:32,520 He was out in the forest looking for wood to make barrel staves and he came across what 102 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,360 he considered a band of counterfeiters. 103 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,000 After observing their movement for some time, he informed the local sheriff who arrested 104 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,640 this counterfeiter group. 105 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,520 This led to Pinkerton being appointed in 1849 as the first police detective in Chicago. 106 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:50,760 And in 1850, he partnered with Chicago attorney Edward Rucker in forming the Northwestern 107 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,560 police agency, which later became Pinkerton and company. 108 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,120 And finally it ends up with the name Pinkerton National Detective Agency. 109 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,880 Those were his only prerequisites with stumbling upon a group of counter. 110 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,160 Were they actually even counterfeiting? 111 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,400 See, I don't actually know for sure because you know, police records from that day are 112 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:10,760 spotty at best. 113 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,800 Like there's no criminal database at the time. 114 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:13,800 Wow. 115 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,480 I am just flabbergasted at this. 116 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,960 Back in the days when you just had to stumble upon a crime to... 117 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,160 Some crazy Scottish man yelling things. 118 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,640 I better follow him. 119 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,240 Seems like an excellent detective. 120 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Okay. 121 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,240 Okay. 122 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,240 He's a shaker and a mover. 123 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:28,240 Got it. 124 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,640 So the Pinkerton's National Detective Agency starts off and kind of the bread and butter 125 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,200 of the detective work. 126 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:38,440 First off working for the postal service because you know, postal detective work is lucrative 127 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:39,440 at the time. 128 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,080 And then they move on to the railway because you know, natural segue because those are 129 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,840 the two groups that pay well. 130 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:51,040 For how he got into this, like then he just gets postal and railway, like national things. 131 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,160 You just wait to see where this goes. 132 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:59,600 First off, he realized that this company was going to be very evil right from the start. 133 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,160 Chelsea, I need you to look up Pinkerton logo just so that you can see what I'm talking 134 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,160 about. 135 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,160 Oh no. 136 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,760 Pinkerton's insignia is a wide open eye with the caption, we never sleep underneath it. 137 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,760 Oh no. 138 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:12,760 This is troublesome. 139 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,560 This is very straight up. 140 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,760 He's like, how can I make this seem evil? 141 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,680 I don't think you can come up with an evil or logo. 142 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:20,680 Nope. 143 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,320 And this is how he got the counterfeiters for sure is by never sleeping and always watching 144 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,320 them. 145 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,320 Yeah. 146 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,320 Okay. 147 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,320 So he gets out doing postal detective work and then moves on into the railway because 148 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,760 there's lots of train robberies happening at the time. 149 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,600 It apparently solves a couple of them during the 1850s. 150 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,840 And this brings Pinkerton into contact with a man by the name of George B. McClellan, 151 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:46,960 who was the chief engineer and vice president of the Illinois Central Railroad. 152 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,160 And then another man you may have heard this name before, Abraham Lincoln, who was a lawyer 153 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,440 for the company as well. 154 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,840 Can we just go over his details quick because he's a very tall man, well known for his wrestling 155 00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:58,840 acumen. 156 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:02,520 And he turns up, I believe, also becoming president of the United States and assassinated. 157 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:03,520 Right. 158 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:04,520 That Abraham Lincoln. 159 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,520 Okay. 160 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,520 Yes. 161 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:07,520 As a act. 162 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:08,520 Yes. 163 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,520 Wood teeth, I believe as well. 164 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,520 No, that was the other one. 165 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,520 It was Washington. 166 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,520 Wood teeth. 167 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:13,520 Yeah. 168 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Yeah. 169 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,800 Anyhow, that he has a relationship now with Abe Lincoln. 170 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,840 And then the civil war begins. 171 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,320 Pinkertons ends up serving as the head of Union intelligence services during the first two 172 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,000 years of the war. 173 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:31,520 And apparently he heads off an alleged assassination plot in Baltimore to assassinate Abe Lincoln 174 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,240 on his way to Washington, DC. 175 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,400 Weren't they friends or lovers? 176 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:36,960 Friends as far as I can tell. 177 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,160 He was also tasked with providing estimates of Confederate troop numbers to General George 178 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,160 B. McClellan. 179 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,800 Again, that other guy was part of the railroad. 180 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,960 This guy just seems to stumble into like the best people to get him stuff. 181 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,480 You can't even do something like this these days. 182 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:57,600 You could never have no credentials and just be head of security for the United States. 183 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,560 Literally, in 1844 is around the time that he stopped the counterfeiters. 184 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,440 And then five years later, he's protecting the president. 185 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,280 This is five years later? 186 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:08,280 Wow. 187 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,280 No, this is like a different day and age. 188 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,280 You could never. 189 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,240 We can't even own houses now because they're too expensive. 190 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,840 Oh, man. 191 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,000 So he was tasked with providing general estimates of Confederate troop numbers for General George 192 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,120 B. McClellan when he commanded the Army of the Potomac. 193 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,120 His agents often worked undercover as Confederate soldiers and sympathizers to gather military 194 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,120 intelligence. 195 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,680 Pinkerton himself served on several undercover missions as a Confederate soldier using the 196 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:40,080 alias Major E.G. Allen. 197 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,920 And I really love when people are so lazy with their aliases that they literally just 198 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,360 use their first name as their last name. 199 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:47,360 It's pretty great. 200 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,200 I'm just getting to thinking now. 201 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,080 Where would he come up with his like process for how to do things as like intelligence? 202 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,080 Like he has no experience other than stumbling upon people in the woods. 203 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,960 And now he's like in charge of very big things. 204 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:03,960 Oh, yeah. 205 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:04,960 He's just making it up. 206 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,400 He's like, maybe we got to do this today. 207 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,640 And allegedly stops an assassination attempt against Ample Lincoln, which is just like 208 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,640 so bizarre. 209 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,240 But at the same time, zero proof, zero proof this ever happened. 210 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:18,480 Like nobody was arrested for it. 211 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,440 Okay, so maybe that's how he's doing things. 212 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,040 My opinion is he's an absolute bullshitter. 213 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,040 Yeah. 214 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,200 And people can't understand him. 215 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,040 And you can only ask somebody three times to repeat themselves before it's too awkward 216 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,360 to just accept what they said. 217 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,200 I'm flabbergasted at this point. 218 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,120 Like, okay, okay, let's continue. 219 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:43,720 He's working as Major E.G. Allen in the Confederacy to go undercover and figure this shit out. 220 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:44,720 What's going on? 221 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,560 He was crossing the deep south in the summer of 1861, focusing on fortifications and Confederate 222 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:50,560 plans. 223 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:53,520 He was found out in Memphis and barely escaped with his life. 224 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,400 This counterintelligence work done by Pinkerton and his agents is comparable to the work done 225 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,920 by today's US Army counterintelligence special agents in which Pinkerton's agency is considered 226 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,320 an early predecessor. 227 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,800 He was succeeded as intelligence service chief by Lefayette Baker. 228 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,760 The intelligence service was then the predecessor of the US Secret Service. 229 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,480 So basically the Pinkertons invented the Secret Service too. 230 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:16,560 This is insane. 231 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:17,560 Out of nowhere. 232 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:19,040 This guy just meat-up. 233 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Just one of those in meat-callets. 234 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,720 I have to add this at this point because we just talked about how instrumental he was 235 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,280 during the Civil War in the US. 236 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,240 Military historians have been strongly critical of the intelligence Pinkerton provided for 237 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,960 the Union Army, which for the most part was undigested raw data. 238 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:40,160 In the view of T. Harry Williams, Pinkerton was the poorest intelligence service any general 239 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:41,160 ever had. 240 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,280 Pinkerton's estimates of rebel troop numbers derived from his credulous interrogations of 241 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,480 Confederate prisoners, deserters, refugees, and escaped slaves, and civilians, unused 242 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,440 to counting large bodies of men, badly exaggerated the size of those formations, sometimes almost 243 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,080 doubling their actual strength. 244 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,800 So the general would ask him to go figure out how many Confederate troops are in this 245 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,240 area and he would be like, oh yeah, there's like 10,000 troops and there'd be maybe a 246 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,240 few hundred. 247 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,360 I mean, that's on point for this guy. 248 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,720 I would expect something more like this. 249 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,320 So yeah, that's a lot of this is really curated to make Pinkerton's look like they're really 250 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,320 good, but there's definitely information out there that they weren't that great. 251 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,080 I mean, that would track for me as far as what I know so far. 252 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,960 Once the Civil War is done, Pinkerton finishes the service with the Union Army. 253 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,240 This is done before a Blinkins assassinated, so you really can't blame him for not stopping 254 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:32,560 that assassination. 255 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,240 That one did exist and it did happen. 256 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,240 However, he continued pursuits outside of that work, working for the train companies 257 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,240 again. 258 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,800 Pinkerton started running down train robbers, including the Reno gang, which I didn't end 259 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,960 up looking into, who is also hired by the Railroad Express companies to track Jesse 260 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:47,960 James. 261 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,480 This is a super messed up story. 262 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,960 Jesse James and Pinkerton's have like a big fight for a long time, I guess a feud. 263 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,440 So Pinkerton's fails to capture him for a while. 264 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,160 Railroad withdraws their financial support for Pinkerton's, but Pinkerton's continues 265 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,240 to track James at their own expense. 266 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,560 And after James allegedly captured and killed one of Pinkerton's undercover agents, they 267 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:13,000 decide in 1875 they're going to go to Jesse James' mom's house and they do a raid, like 268 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,080 one of the first police raids, even though they're a private company. 269 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:17,400 It's in Clay County, Missouri. 270 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,120 Frank and Jesse, Frank is, I believe, Jesse's partner. 271 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,280 They were nowhere around. 272 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,280 It was just like Jesse James' mom and his half brother who's eight years old. 273 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,680 Pinkerton's they go in, they get in a huge argument with the mom, and then somehow during 274 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:36,320 this entire time, one of the detectives throws something inside the house and it explodes. 275 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,480 Jesse James' mother's arm is blown off and his half brother ends up dying. 276 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,160 So there's a botched raid. 277 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,960 Pinkerton's the company loses a lot of PR over this time. 278 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,080 And after seeing his detectives denounced as murderers in the papers, Alan Pinkerton decides 279 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,960 to call off his war against Jesse James. 280 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,960 Never catches Jesse James. 281 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,200 Then in 1871, Congress appropriates $50,000 to the new Department of Justice to form a 282 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:05,080 sub-organization devoted to quote, the detection and prosecution of those guilty of violating 283 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,560 federal law, end quote. 284 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,600 The amount was insufficient to actually start an internal investigation unit. 285 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,760 So they just end up contracting out to Pinkerton's. 286 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,160 So Pinkerton's gets $50,000 in 1871 for detective work for the government. 287 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,360 That's about $1.2 million today. 288 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:20,360 Holy crap. 289 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,440 And in 1872, they are contracted by the Spanish government to help suppress a revolution in 290 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,480 Cuba which intended to end slavery and give citizens the right to vote. 291 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,320 So they are now being contracted as a militia, like internationally. 292 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,520 This is so wild right? 293 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,520 Yeah. 294 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:41,080 And this is super weird too, because Pinkerton, remember, he was part of the abolitionist movement 295 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,360 in Chicago allegedly. 296 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:48,360 So why the hell would you take money from this to suppress a slave uprising in Cuba? 297 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,040 If you're abolitionist. 298 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,960 Sounds like he either wasn't a part of it in the first place or he's just doing whatever 299 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:55,960 to make money. 300 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,640 I think part of it is just trying to give a good reflection on the history of saying, 301 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,560 oh yeah, he's an abolitionist when really he would just take any money he could get. 302 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,120 And like right from the start again, evil logo, evil as logo you could get. 303 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,120 It's true. 304 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,400 It doesn't get much evil than that logo. 305 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,720 In the 1870s, Franklin B. Gowan, then president of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, 306 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,440 hired the agency to quote, investigate and quote, the labor unions in the company's minds. 307 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,160 Pinkerton agent James McParland using the alias James McKenna infiltrated what is called 308 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,920 the Molly McGuire's, which was a 19th century. 309 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:32,280 It's called a secret society, which apparently they infiltrated of mainly Irish American coal 310 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,280 miners. 311 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080 They ended up being the cause of the Molly McGuire's being no more. 312 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,560 Now I need to tell you, Molly McGuire's their secret society of Irish immigrant coal miners 313 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,920 basically just advocate for workers rights. 314 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:49,000 Now they are a little more extreme and that they would terrorize or even kill foremen and 315 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,000 supervisors. 316 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,040 They also are anti-war. 317 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,440 Part of their charter is they won't fight a rich man's war and they rebelled against 318 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:57,800 drafts during the civil war. 319 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,600 So not considered great, but they were literally just workers have no rights. 320 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,800 There's no way to enforce them. 321 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:03,800 We need to be violent. 322 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,360 I mean, I can't argue with their logic. 323 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,640 I agree with everything that they're for. 324 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,200 The undercover work done by Pinkerton's during this time led to many of them being executed 325 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,200 by the state in 1877. 326 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,360 And this inspired Arthur Conan Doyle, the writer of Sherlock Holmes to write the novel 327 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,960 The Valley of Fear, a Pinkerton agent also appears in a small role in the adventure of 328 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,640 Red Circle, which is a Sherlock Holmes story. 329 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,200 So Arthur Conan Doyle was very aware of them and writing about them as well. 330 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,760 Well, they seem to be shaking things up during this time. 331 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:41,520 But alas, our friend Alan Pinkerton comes to an end on July 1st, 1884. 332 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,520 Get this. 333 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:43,520 Okay. 334 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:44,520 Pinkerton living a big life. 335 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:45,520 How do you think he came to an end? 336 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,840 He choked on a ham sandwich. 337 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:48,840 You know what? 338 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:49,840 Not that far off. 339 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:50,840 Okay. 340 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:51,840 How was it? 341 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,720 The general consensus at the time was that he was walking, slipped on some pavement, 342 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,760 bit his tongue, died of gangrene. 343 00:15:58,760 --> 00:15:59,760 What? 344 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,240 You know, it's not hard to die, really. 345 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,240 Especially before penicillin. 346 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:04,240 It's a scary thing. 347 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,240 Yeah. 348 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,120 There's things out there that are very mundane that'll get you. 349 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,720 And it's the world's escape replace. 350 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,960 I should say a lot of people also believe it could have been a stroke, but the consensus 351 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,960 of the time was gangrene of the tongue. 352 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:17,960 Wow. 353 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,960 That okay. 354 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,920 So, he dies in 1884, control of Pinkerton's detective agency goes to Pinkerton's sons, 355 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,200 Robert and William Pinkerton, and the company continues to grow. 356 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:34,120 So by the 1890s, 1884, within five years, Pinkerton's has 2,000 detectives and 30,000 357 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,400 reserve, which is basically anybody that can get in to come do stuff. 358 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,440 This is more men than the standing army of the US. 359 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,280 Where are these people coming from? 360 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,440 It's just people need work. 361 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:44,440 Okay. 362 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,280 And then like, these are the only detectives. 363 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,640 And some states see this and they're like, holy shit. 364 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,640 This is a mercenary army that you guys have. 365 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,760 So some states outright ban Pinkerton's or outlaw Pinkerton's from working in their 366 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:55,760 state. 367 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,920 It's really just Ohio, but they at least said like, we don't want Pinkerton's in here, 368 00:16:58,920 --> 00:16:59,920 so they banned them. 369 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,080 It's not a bad move, I would say. 370 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,200 During Alan Pinkerton's life, the Pinkerton's detective agency is credited with creating 371 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,840 the first crime database. 372 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,280 They're credited with creating the idea of a mugshot. 373 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,680 They hired the first female private investigator in US history, and they in fact coined the 374 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,960 term private investigator or PI. 375 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,000 I was just going to say, not only did they hire the first female when they had the first 376 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,320 male one. 377 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:23,320 Yes. 378 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,800 But that's actually, that's crazy. 379 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,320 It just seems weird to me, like a woman working in the 1800s as a PI. 380 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,200 Like that seems pretty progressive. 381 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,200 It is actually. 382 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,200 Okay. 383 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,200 Kids take it over. 384 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,760 We're going to get into some of the shadier shit that goes on now. 385 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,840 First and foremost is the Haymarket riots. 386 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,320 In 1886, there was a protest against the killings and woundings of several workers during a 387 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,640 strike at the McCormick Reaper works. 388 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:48,640 This is in Illinois. 389 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,520 The Haymarket riots take place in Chicago. 390 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,240 Everybody goes to the Haymarket. 391 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,240 All these workers go there. 392 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,000 They start having a protest, turns into a riot. 393 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,800 Situation escalates into a violent riot when an unidentified person throws a bomb at the 394 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,920 police, which results in the death of eight people. 395 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,160 Policemen and Pinkerton's were surrounding this protest at the time that the bomb went 396 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:08,160 off. 397 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,680 And then seven anarchists are arrested despite zero evidence linking them to the specific 398 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:12,680 crimes. 399 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,400 Pinkerton's detective testifies at the trial that they saw these people do this. 400 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,720 Four of the men go to the gallows. 401 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,720 They were hanged. 402 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Oh, no. 403 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,200 During the trial, a defense team actually suggests there's evidence linking the Pinkerton's 404 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,760 to the bomb being thrown, which reflects a widespread belief among the strikers. 405 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,920 However, they could not substantiate this and again put to the gallows. 406 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:33,920 Four of them. 407 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:34,920 Well, the Pinkerton's? 408 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:35,920 No, the anarchists. 409 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,920 Well, how come the anarchists have to substantiate this and not the freaking Pinkerton? 410 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,120 Because Pinkerton's are detectives, so they know this shit. 411 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,960 That's at least what people believe at the time. 412 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,440 Oh my God. 413 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:47,600 Okay. 414 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,720 This is a wild time to be alive. 415 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,360 Seven years after this, the Illinois governor ends up pardoning the last three living haymarket 416 00:18:55,360 --> 00:19:00,160 anarchists after identifying the police and Pinkerton's as unreliable narrators. 417 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,280 So yeah, they said that it turns out it's not true at all. 418 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,280 Oh my God. 419 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,720 Then in 1892, there's what's known as the Homestead Strike. 420 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,040 This is Andrew Carnegie, who's a steel robber baron. 421 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,200 You would know Andrew Carnegie not necessarily by name, but you've heard of Carnegie Hall 422 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,200 before, right? 423 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,200 Yes. 424 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,200 No, I'm thinking of Dale Carnegie. 425 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,200 Yeah, I know. 426 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,200 Dale Carnegie's a different guy. 427 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,520 Carnegie ends up donating pretty much all of his wealth before he dies and they build 428 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,920 like culture around the big cities in the US. 429 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,880 He ends up fairly poor when he dies, but he's an absolute asshole while he's alive. 430 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,520 To give you a short idea of what the Homestead Strike is, in 1892, there's a city in Pennsylvania 431 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,640 called Homestead. 432 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,480 It's a company town, so it's built around a steel mill. 433 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,640 Andrew Carnegie has a guy to run the plant and his last name is Frick. 434 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Can't remember his first name, but Frick is good enough for this. 435 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,680 That's a good last name. 436 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,640 Oh, especially if you're going to be somebody who's doing the biddings of a robber baron. 437 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,640 Anyhow. 438 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,240 Do they have those anymore? 439 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,600 We just have nicer names for them. 440 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,120 We just call them philanthropists. 441 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,120 Okay. 442 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:03,040 Carnegie tells Frick he wants to get rid of the union in town. 443 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,440 So when the contract's up for ratification, they lock the workers out of the plant. 444 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,400 They put up barbwire fences around the actual plant itself. 445 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,040 They put up water cannons, which can actually spray boiling hot water at anybody outside. 446 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,360 Basically, they say, no, can't go in there, can't work. 447 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:21,240 We're going to bring people into town to do the job instead of you scabs. 448 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,360 And the workers are saying, well, screw you. 449 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:24,960 We're just going to not let anybody in. 450 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:25,960 It's a company town. 451 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,080 They live there with their families. 452 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,280 The only way in and out of town is by barge because it's on a river. 453 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,440 They just block anybody if they don't know in town. 454 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:33,560 They say, get the hell out of here. 455 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,480 The only people actually from outside of town they allow is the media. 456 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,280 And if they think you're going to write a bad thing about the workers, they say, get 457 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,720 lost. 458 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,920 They were really set up quite nicely with that barge in and out. 459 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,760 Carnegie ends up hiring 300 Pinkerton detectives to come shut down the strike. 460 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,360 They come in by barge. 461 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:58,040 They end up getting into a 12 hour gunfight between 3,800 workers and 300 Pinkerton's 462 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,440 that are on the barge. 463 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,880 Three Pinkerton's die and seven workers die and then Pinkerton's end up surrendering. 464 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,920 So doesn't go well for them. 465 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,440 That's a really weird way how this strike ends just to give you the Coles notes. 466 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:15,000 An anarchist from New York hears what's going on and the workers had huge public support. 467 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,480 This anarchist hears about this Frick guy and he's like, oh, this guy is horrible. 468 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,520 He ends up going to Homestead and attempting to assassinate Frick. 469 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,600 He stabs him, but Frick survives and then public attention of this changes and they're 470 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:27,920 against the workers now. 471 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,680 So whether or not that's actually what happens, that's how the story ends up changing and 472 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,680 the strike breaks. 473 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,240 Everybody ends up going back to work working longer hours for less pay. 474 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,240 Oh no. 475 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,240 Yeah. 476 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,240 Pinkerton's tried to have a hand in that. 477 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,240 They did horribly in it. 478 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,600 So Homestead happens and the Pinkerton's group starts moving out of the corporate thug 479 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,480 business like where we'll go just shut down a strike. 480 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,440 They felt that the damage to the company's reputation was not worth the business. 481 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,080 After all, the company's technical main business was catching criminals and not serving as shock 482 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,040 forces for capitalists, but they still remain involved in Union Bustin by setting in agents 483 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,040 to spy. 484 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,880 The next strike that they get involved in is the Cortalane Strike in Idaho. 485 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,120 In order to invest in machinery, a coal mine in Idaho decides that what we're going to 486 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,000 do is change your hours. 487 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,840 All the workers, they work working nine hour days, six days a week. 488 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,080 They want to change it to 10 hour days, seven days a week and give them a pay cut. 489 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,080 Oh my God. 490 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,240 They form a labor union. 491 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,560 They start planning a strike and the labor union is then infiltrated by Pinkerton's agents. 492 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,040 They basically go in and say like, oh yeah, I want to work in the coal. 493 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,680 Oh yeah, I want to be part of the union. 494 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,720 They go to all the union meetings as Pinkerton agents and pass that information all on to 495 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,160 the owners of the mines. 496 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,960 So they routinely provide union information to the mine owners and there ends up being 497 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,120 violence in this. 498 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:47,380 On July 11th, 1892, the striking coal miners in Cortalane blow up the Frisco Mill, a mine 499 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:51,760 building filled with guards after getting into a firefight with Pinkerton's later on. 500 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,600 Killing two mine employees and taking about 60 mine guards prisoner. 501 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,340 This led to the governor of Idaho declaring martial law over the mining district and crushing 502 00:22:58,340 --> 00:22:59,400 the mine strike. 503 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,520 During this time, like it's a field day for union busting company. 504 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,080 So another one pops up kind of the big competitor of Pinkerton's of the day is called the Baldwin 505 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,240 felts agency. 506 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,400 They really have a foothold in West Virginia. 507 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,480 So a lot of the strikes that go on in West Virginia end up having Baldwin felts agents 508 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,480 attached to it. 509 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,400 So like the battle of Blair Mountain had Baldwin felts as opposed to Pinkerton's. 510 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,400 Okay. 511 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,960 Do you remember the battle of Blair Mountain where it's all those coal miners on strike 512 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,840 that end up getting attacked by air raids? 513 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,020 Yeah, I always get that one confused with the big foot one. 514 00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:31,640 That one's also a battle of some mountain. 515 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,640 Right. 516 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,140 Right. 517 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:39,320 Next up is the Pullman strike of 1894, which we did in our first episode of a history of 518 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,320 violent strikes. 519 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,800 Just to give you a bit of an idea, Pullman is a company that builds box cars just outside 520 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:46,800 of Chicago. 521 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,440 They have the American Railway Union and out of union solidarity, they started blocking 522 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,440 anything that was pulling a Pullman car. 523 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,560 They just said, Nope, Nope, we're not going to work on it. 524 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,320 During this strike, 20,000 troops were called out to ensure that the trains carried us mail 525 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,520 could travel freely. 526 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,080 30 people end up being killed during riots in Chicago for this, which may have gone up 527 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,480 to 40 of nobody really knows. 528 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,240 And there was property damage in the excess of 80 million. 529 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,400 This is specifically listed under the Pinkerton's Wikipedia page as something they're involved 530 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,040 with, but I couldn't find the particulars as to how they were involved with it. 531 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,800 So they were just involved with the Pullman strike as far as I can tell. 532 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,800 Okay. 533 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,800 Somehow, maybe. 534 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:23,800 Yeah. 535 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,960 They were involved in one called the Miner Strike in Bradwood, Illinois. 536 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,400 Pinkerton's was used by the industrialists against the miners during these strikes. 537 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,200 The strikes were triggered by wage cuts and resulted in violent confrontations between 538 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,680 Pinkerton's and striking miners. 539 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,680 They were also involved. 540 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Chelsea, you did this one, the Great Railroad Strike of 1877, which was one of the most 541 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,680 significant labor disputes in the 19th century. 542 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,560 Strike was triggered by wage cuts and was marked by violent confrontations again between 543 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,160 Pinkerton's and strikers. 544 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:55,360 In 1905, Harry Orchard ends up being arrested by the Idaho police and confessing to Pinkerton 545 00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:00,520 agents, particularly James McFarland, that he assassinated former governor Frank Struenberg 546 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,600 of Idaho. 547 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,880 He's a prominent person in the workers' rights worlds and for unions. 548 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,960 And he just so happens to confess to a Pinkerton's person detective that he murdered the former 549 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,960 governor. 550 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,360 I mean, they seem like standup guys that would always tell the truth, though. 551 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:17,360 Oh, yeah, for sure. 552 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:18,360 Yeah. 553 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,040 And so, they acquitted for it in a nationally publicized trial. 554 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,600 However, there were several people that were implicated in this and there was a trial. 555 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,640 Harry Orchard ends up receiving a death sentence but ends up getting it commuted, so he's not 556 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,000 actually put to death. 557 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,920 What actually happened there, I'm not sure, though. 558 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,640 This one I find super interesting. 559 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:39,720 In 1907, Morris Friedman reported that Pinkerton agents had infiltrated the Western Federation 560 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,120 of Miners and managed to gain control of the strike relief fund. 561 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,120 So you know that money that they have for a rainy day if they need to go on strike? 562 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,240 He ends up exhausting the treasury by awarding lavish benefits to strikers. 563 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,120 However, many attacks against unions have used force for one sort or another. 564 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,760 They found new and different ways to actually stop strikers. 565 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,040 This guy joined the union as a Pinkerton's detective. 566 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,200 He's like, oh yeah, yeah, I'm good with money. 567 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,360 I'll handle the money. 568 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:07,040 And just gave it all out so that they had no money to support themselves while striking. 569 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,200 Their timeline of events is bizarre. 570 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,440 It's just been a wild ride from like stumbling upon people potentially counterfeiting in 571 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,440 the woods to now they're working against unions and like. 572 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,080 And that's like exclusively what they do during this time. 573 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,520 Like they're still working for the railways. 574 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,520 This is so weird. 575 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:25,520 But yeah. 576 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,600 And then according to the New Republic, a newspaper, the Pinkerton's were also brought 577 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,920 in alongside the Colorado National Guard during the 1914 Ludlow massacre. 578 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,920 So I have to give you a little more background on this one because this is just insane. 579 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,840 So the Ludlow massacre is basically soldiers from Colorado's National Guard and private 580 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,800 guards employed by the Colorado Fuel and Iron Company who were brought in to stop a strike 581 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,040 that was going on at a coal mine, basically a tank colony of roughly 1200 workers and 582 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,920 also their families living in Ludlow, Colorado. 583 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,800 So Pinkerton's and the Colorado National Guard are brought in to suppress it. 584 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760 John Rockefeller Jr. was also a part owner in this company. 585 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,800 And that's just a little bit of information for the robber baron side of it all. 586 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:10,160 Anyhow, what happens is they end up burning down the tent city and 69 to 199 people were 587 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,840 killed during the suppression. 588 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,600 And it's considered quote the deadliest strike in the history of the United States. 589 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,520 I don't know what to say about that. 590 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,800 And the 69 to 199 people who died were mostly women and children. 591 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,080 They were not the people that were on strike because the families would be in the tent. 592 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,200 I was just going to say were like they doing any fighting or did they just go light up 593 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,840 the houses, so to say. 594 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,680 I think they were trying to disperse them away from the mine so that if you don't have 595 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,760 a place to live, why would you stick around the mine? 596 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,760 Great idea Pinkerton's, but that's been the theme for the whole podcast. 597 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,600 The Ludlow massacre was a watershed moment in American labor relations. 598 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,440 Socialist historian Howard Zinn describes it as quote the culminating act of perhaps the 599 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,840 most violent struggle between corporate power and laboring men in American history and quote. 600 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,760 And this is really a changing point for how Pinkerton's can relate to things. 601 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,720 So Congress responds to public outrage by directing the House Committee on Mines and 602 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,680 Mining to investigate the events. 603 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,720 It publishes a report in 1915 which is super influential and child labor laws being introduced 604 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,240 to the US and an eight hour work day. 605 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,920 The Ludlow Town site and the adjacent location of the tent colony is now a ghost town that 606 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:19,920 you can go visit. 607 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,240 So super weird. 608 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,600 The massacre site is owned by the United Mine Workers of America which erected a granite 609 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,920 monument in memory of those who died that day. 610 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,000 I should also say it's not just Pinkerton's that's implicated in that one, Baldwin Felt 611 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000 is also implicated. 612 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,120 In the 1930s the Pinkerton agency employed 1200 labor spies and nearly one third of them 613 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,680 held high level positions in targeted unions. 614 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,280 The International Association of Machinists was damaged when Sam Brady, a veteran Pinkerton 615 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,680 operative held a high enough position in the union that he was able to precipitate a premature 616 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,680 strike. 617 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,440 So he pushed them to go on strike when they weren't ready for it. 618 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,440 So it was a failure. 619 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,160 And all but five officers in the United Auto Workers Local in Lansing, Michigan were driven 620 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,840 out by Pinkerton's agents. 621 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,200 The five who remained were Pinkerton's at the end of the day. 622 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,640 At the Underwood Elliott Fisher Company plant the union local was so badly injured by undercover 623 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,560 operatives that membership dropped from more than 2500 to fewer than 75. 624 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,400 So they moved from being like just the bullies to a very different style. 625 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,120 This is so stupid. 626 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,760 But this is where the big change happens for Pinkerton's. 627 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,120 Bosses once hired the firm because agents would do just about anything to break a strike. 628 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,840 Pinkerton's agents would lie and kill if necessary and they could do things and go places 629 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,480 law enforcement could not. 630 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,320 Companies hire Pinkerton's now because the firm's very name still implies a threat. 631 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,560 As the 20th century progressed, Pinkerton's changed their concentration and more of their 632 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520 resources into surveillance and corporate espionage. 633 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,080 When the U.S. Senate convened the Lafayette Civil Liberties Committee in 1936, senators 634 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,480 found that the Pinkerton's had not only infiltrated general workers whose workers were then attempting 635 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,680 to organize with the United Auto Workers. 636 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,360 Their agents had also destroyed evidence before the governor could complete an investigation 637 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,680 of their activities. 638 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,840 They're not only infiltrating these guys, they're specifically destroying evidence 639 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400 that could implicate them in anything that the government is finding. 640 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,640 Because of this, they passed the Wagner Act through Congress in the 1930s, which made 641 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,640 the investigation of labor activities illegal. 642 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,480 Pinkerton's then shifted its focus towards the investigation of gambling, particularly 643 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:21,920 the horse racing circuit. 644 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,000 Weirdly enough. 645 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,320 During World War II, in the 1940s, the agency provided guarding services for war supply plans. 646 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,880 This marked a significant shift in the agency's service, with property guarding becoming their 647 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,880 primary focus. 648 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,120 It's all been significant shifts, I would say. 649 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,240 They're just all over the map. 650 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,440 In the 1960s, the word detective disappeared from the agency's letterhead, reflecting 651 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,320 its shift from the detective work towards protection services. 652 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,880 During this period, the agency also established offices in Hong Kong, opening doors to operations 653 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,880 in Asia. 654 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,800 I don't know much about that side of it. 655 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,440 In the late 20th century, the company became increasingly involved in risk management 656 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,560 and executive protection, and it was bought by a Swedish security company known as Securitas 657 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,960 AB in 1999, which led to further expansion and diversification in its services. 658 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,120 The company now operating as Pinkerton Consulting and Investigations Incorporated focuses on 659 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,640 threat intelligence, risk management, executive protection, and active shooter responses. 660 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,320 Within recent years, Pinkerton has transformed into a global provider of corporate risk management 661 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,840 and has pioneered the holistic approach called ESRM, Enterprise Security Risk Management, 662 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,040 and has also developed a comprehensive risk management platform to unlock a specialized 663 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,040 solution framework. 664 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,160 A lot of that comes from PR bullshit from them. 665 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,400 They are still around today. 666 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,640 They're very real still. 667 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,000 The Pinkerton survived and entered the 21st century intact, largely on the strength of 668 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,080 their ability to intimidate, surveil, and gather intelligence about workers. 669 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,440 On its website, the company advertises global protective intelligence, and produced in 670 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,440 large part by agents who are embedded or on call. 671 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,880 Corporate clients can access the Pinkerton Vigilance Network, which consists of the 672 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,920 firm's agents, government agencies, and 1,000 plus private sources. 673 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,320 The goal is to help corporations manage risk on all fronts, from natural disasters to political 674 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,320 events. 675 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,880 Pinkerton's hardly the only firm to advertise such services, but its history sets it apart 676 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,000 and the company embraces its legacy. 677 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,960 Quote, with one call to Pinkerton, you gain access to our global network of resources, 678 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,880 providing boots on the ground when and where you need them. 679 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,240 End quote, it promises. 680 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,960 And Securetoss add for the firm lists, quote, labor demonstrations, and quote, among the 681 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,480 risks it can monitor. 682 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,440 So they're still in anti-union bullshit. 683 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,160 Trouble can happen anywhere, anytime. 684 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,160 That's their tagline. 685 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,400 Is that legal anymore? 686 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,400 Anti-union? 687 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,840 Let's look at what they've been doing the last few years. 688 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:48,280 This came right from Chelsea of all places that's writing anti-Pinkerton stuff. 689 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,560 What magazine do you think it is? 690 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,560 Is it the cult one? 691 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:51,560 You're never going to guess it. 692 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:52,560 This is Teen Vogue. 693 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,560 I'm never going to... 694 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,560 Teen Vogue? 695 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,560 Yeah. 696 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,560 Okay. 697 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,360 Weirdly, a bunch of bullshit about teenage celebrity shit and then pro-labor rights stuff. 698 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,360 Okay. 699 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,640 Don't understand it at all. 700 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,520 The Pinkerton promise is attractive to some Silicon Valley firms. 701 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:13,080 The Guardian reported on March 16th that Google and Facebook have both retained Pinkerton's 702 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,140 to monitor staff for leaks, quote, among other services Pinkerton offers to send investigators 703 00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:23,720 to coffee shops or restaurants near a company's campus to eavesdrop on employees' conversations, 704 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,720 end quote. 705 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,600 Olivia Salon reported, oh my God. 706 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:32,280 The Pinkerton representatives told Salon that its agents typically focus on IP theft 707 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,480 and insider trading, but the firm's reach may not end with those concerns. 708 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,000 And sorry, I said this is Teen Vogue. 709 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,000 This one's not Teen Vogue. 710 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,000 This one's Salon. 711 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,440 Quote, through LinkedIn searches, the Guardian found several former Pinkerton investigators 712 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,640 to have subsequently been hired by Facebook, Google, and Apple. 713 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,640 Salon roped. 714 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,640 Oh. 715 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,000 Facebook and Google fittingly are now in the process of building their own physical communities. 716 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,960 Apartments in Willow Village and Alphabet City will theoretically be available to all, 717 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,440 but the parallels of company towns of mold are obvious. 718 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:02,440 That's crazy. 719 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,480 So they're working for Facebook and Google doing God knows what and Apple. 720 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,160 Next up, dozens of leaked documents from Amazon's Global Security Operations Center 721 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,600 reveal the company's reliance on Pinkerton operatives to spy on warehouse workers and 722 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,280 the extensive monitoring of labor unions, environmental activists, and other social 723 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,280 movements. 724 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,280 Is that legal? 725 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,280 Is it? 726 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,280 Or no? 727 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,280 Yes. 728 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,280 It must be. 729 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,280 Quasie. 730 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,280 Gray area. 731 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,120 Next up, there have been reports of Starbucks using Pinkerton agents to monitor labor board 732 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,120 rulings. 733 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,600 This suggests that Starbucks may have been using Pinkerton agents to gather information about 734 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,080 potential union activities and to prepare for potential strikes or other labor disputes. 735 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,640 All these big companies. 736 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,520 And then this one is super weird. 737 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,960 This has to do with Magic the Gathering. 738 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,280 Chelsea, do you know what that is? 739 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,080 Yeah, that card game. 740 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,280 Major nerd card game. 741 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,120 They're owned by Wizards of the Coast, who is an ardent defender of its IP. 742 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,800 Basically, they make a ton of money off Magic the Gathering and a few other things. 743 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,440 So they tightly hold things close at hand without letting it out. 744 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,800 A YouTuber by the name of Dan Cannon, who goes by old school MTG on YouTube, he uploaded 745 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,920 a video of himself opening a box of Magic the Gathering cards that he'd just got in 746 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:09,920 the mail. 747 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,480 And it turns out the cards weren't supposed to be released yet. 748 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,120 They accidentally got sent to him. 749 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,080 They were from the next set that was supposed to come out, not the current set that was 750 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,080 coming out. 751 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,400 So he posts these videos of him opening what's called the March of the Machines aftermath. 752 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,800 Whereas the card set that had come out was March of the Machines. 753 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,000 You can see how it's fucking confusing. 754 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,200 This set was not due to be released until later in the year, but Cannon had purchased 755 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,680 the box from an acquaintance who was unaware they were selling an unreleased set. 756 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,640 In response to these videos, Wizards of the Coast, the publisher of Magic the Gathering, 757 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,440 hires Pinkerton to recover the leaked cards. 758 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,280 The agents arrive at Cannon's house, demand he hand over the stolen products, and tell 759 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,440 him that he will face jail time. 760 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,480 If he does not, they're in his house, berating him and his family, and saying, you're going 761 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,520 to go to jail if you don't hand these cards over because you stole them. 762 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,400 He ends up giving all of the cards and tokens and everything that had to do with these cards, 763 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,200 even the packaging, to the Pinkerton's detectives. 764 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,400 Because they intimidated him so much. 765 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,480 Why is that the way they do it though? 766 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,080 Why wouldn't they be like, I'll give you these ones instead, just give me those? 767 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,640 I don't want to do dicks. 768 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,680 Yeah, Cannon, the guy who posted the videos, maintains that the cards were just mistakenly 769 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,160 sent to him from a person whom he purchased them from. 770 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,800 And after the incident, Cannon was given a number to call at Wizards of the Coast. 771 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,480 The representative he spoke to was apologetic and assured him they did not believe any 772 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,960 one had stolen the cards instead. 773 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,120 They wanted to investigate how the unreleased set had ended up in his hands and plug that 774 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,120 hole. 775 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,600 They might just be making that shit up, but Pinkerton's might have also been way more 776 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,120 aggressive than they intended them to be. 777 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,880 Well just looking at their track history. 778 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,360 Because of this entire thing happening, Cannon ends up removing his unboxing videos from 779 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,080 YouTube and he asks anybody who is using videos or screenshots from his YouTube channel to 780 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,360 please delete them. 781 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,680 Like he just wants nothing to do with this anymore. 782 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,960 This last one is not really detective activity, but I had to include it just because it shows 783 00:36:58,960 --> 00:36:59,960 you what they are. 784 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,840 I'm still unsure of what they are. 785 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,920 Chelsea, you've heard of Rockstar before, right? 786 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,920 Not the energy drink, the video game company. 787 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,960 They make Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption. 788 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,400 Okay, yeah, I know those games, I guess. 789 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,440 Red Dead Redemption takes place in the late 1800s, early 1900s. 790 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,720 And because of this, and then being outlaws, guess who shows up in the game? 791 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:20,720 Yes, D. Jane. 792 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:21,720 The Pinkertons. 793 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:22,720 Oh, okay. 794 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:27,480 So this ends up filing a lawsuit against Rockstar and its parent company, Take Two Interactive, 795 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,320 alleging that Rockstar had no right to use their agency's name in the game. 796 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,640 Red Dead Redemption 2. 797 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,800 The game features Pinkertons agents as the antagonists who are constantly pursuing the 798 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,080 Vanderlind game, the game's protagonist. 799 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,280 In response, Rockstar and Take Two filed a counter lawsuit in January claiming that the 800 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,640 use of Pinkertons name was protected under the First Amendment as it was part of the 801 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,560 game's historical setting. 802 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,240 They argued that Pinkertons could not use trademark law to own the past and prevent 803 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:57,280 creators from including historical references to Pinkerton agents and depictions of the 804 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,280 American West. 805 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,280 Yeah, I'm on their side. 806 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,280 Do they win? 807 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,600 Pinkertons' original lawsuit accused Rockstar and Take Two of violating its trademark of 808 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,800 the Pinkerton name. 809 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,840 However, the legal disputes and quietly Take Two voluntarily dismisses the lawsuit that 810 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,560 they filed against Pinkertons and it appears that Pinkertons also just dropped their case. 811 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,640 Because, you know, that's a huge company. 812 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,360 And yeah, they're still alive and kicking like all over the place today. 813 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,400 I did not expect it to end like that. 814 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,040 You'll see a lot of this. 815 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,520 Anything that's set in the late 1800s, early 1900s likely has some sort of reference to 816 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,960 Pinkerton for that day because it is a household name at the time. 817 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,040 The Red Dead Redemption games, it shows up a lot. 818 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,920 There was actually a Canadian show called Pinkertons for a while. 819 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:37,920 I've never seen it. 820 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,200 Apparently it exists. 821 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,400 And Bioshock Infinite has references to Pinkertons as well. 822 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,960 So it shows up a lot in relevant media. 823 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,520 If you're looking at the 1800s, it's huge. 824 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,520 They... 825 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,520 Well, it sounds like it. 826 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,800 Put that on the logo and never look back. 827 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,240 Just decided, yep, we're evil. 828 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,160 What's the evilest stuff we could do? 829 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,320 Okay, this one, we can't do this one anymore. 830 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,680 What's the next evilest thing we could do? 831 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,880 Let's go beat up a nerd with some magic cards. 832 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,120 Yeah, I wasn't prepared for this. 833 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,920 I mean, every time I thought I got a hold on what was going on with the Pinkertons, 834 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,640 they completely changed the course. 835 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,960 But history, everybody should know. 836 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,200 This company is still around. 837 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,560 And people doing shady shit. 838 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,440 All the biggest companies still use them. 839 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,640 And was shocked about that as well, to find out they're still around. 840 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,520 I was expecting them to shut down or something. 841 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,760 But I guess that wouldn't track. 842 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,360 I guess they would still be around. 843 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,080 Well, I learned a lot of new things today. 844 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,000 Chelsea, anything you want to add before we end the episode? 845 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,000 No. 846 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:39,840 Okay. 847 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,640 I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea. 848 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,960 We are Journey to the Fringe. 849 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,120 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 850 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,120 Bye. 851 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,320 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 852 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:55,480 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow, 853 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,680 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 854 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:04,840 Also please, if possible, leave a five star review, as that really helps us in the algorithms. 855 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,640 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 856 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,400 I bet you we are there. 857 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,880 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 858 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:22,760 us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringe.com. 859 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:40,520 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.