1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,160 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, where we constantly use your favorite term, 3 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,360 it's history. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,360 Fuckin' Lernis. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,280 We are your famous users of that phrase, Taylor and Chelsea, and today, Chelsea, I think you 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,000 forgot what I said this episode's going to be about. 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,200 We've done a lot of focus on World War II, the only of the World Wars which actually 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,200 took place. 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,480 I think we're still in that universe, right? 10 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,680 Pretty sure it never changed. 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,680 Yeah. 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,680 So, we focus on that. 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,920 What happens after World War II is the Cold War, which I'm sure you know was between two 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,520 fairly big countries, the US and the USSR, on each side. 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,280 We're going to focus on the fringier part of that, which is everybody who wasn't actually 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,640 involved on one side or the other. 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,600 And what happens during the decades following World War II, that really leads us to today. 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:00:59,600 Okay. 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Chelsea, how much do you know about the middle ground in the Cold War? 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,480 Absolutely zero. 21 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,800 Anything to do with this stuff, I am not knowing a whole bunch of stuff. 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,440 You know those two, right? 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,320 And then there's wars during the middle that are kind of proxy wars. 24 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:19,080 You got the Korean War starting it off, the Vietnam War, a whole bunch of other little 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,360 microfights, the Afghanistan War in the 80s you might not know about, but that's not too 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,360 big of a worry. 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,240 No, I know of these things, but not the stuff. 28 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:28,240 Okay. 29 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,240 And I'm excited to learn more. 30 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,800 And yeah, we're going to start learning more. 31 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,840 And this is actually a huge time for independent states to kind of come about. 32 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,280 As World War II ends, new countries gained their independence leaving the colonial era. 33 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:45,080 You got India and Pakistan, pretty much all of Africa, Indonesia, Philippines, Canada, 34 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,080 Australia, New Zealand kind of fall into this category, but that was also kind of pre-World 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,920 War II, where they fully gained their independence. 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,400 They're all coming onto the scene and they really don't know what they're going to be 37 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,400 about. 38 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,360 They just know that they kind of like this independence thing and they got to figure 39 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:00,360 out what's going on. 40 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,280 And now Chelsea, you've heard the term third world country before, right? 41 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,280 Yes. 42 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,280 Okay. 43 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:06,280 What in your mind does that mean? 44 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,400 I know it's not what I think it is, but now I can't remember what it is. 45 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:14,920 To me, it's like someone that like they don't have food, they don't have like shelter. 46 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:16,280 Coronation, more or less, right? 47 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:17,680 It's a coronation, yeah. 48 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:18,920 But I know that's not it. 49 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:21,200 No, and you've heard the term first world, right? 50 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,200 Yeah. 51 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,200 Now, what does that mean? 52 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,200 We have things. 53 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,200 Okay. 54 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,200 Like when I think first world, I think like over here. 55 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,200 First would be half, second, third would be half. 56 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,600 Is that a proper way to summarize it? 57 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:32,600 I guess so. 58 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:33,600 Okay. 59 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,360 Yeah, but then I think of ourselves as first world and like there's still like, I don't 60 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,360 know. 61 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:39,360 Okay. 62 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:40,360 I don't know what I'm trying to say. 63 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,360 That's totally fine. 64 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,520 I was just curious because I bet you don't have an answer for this. 65 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:44,640 What's the second world? 66 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,120 That would be somewhere in between. 67 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:47,120 Okay. 68 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,200 Which nobody would really, truly fit into. 69 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,200 I don't think so. 70 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,480 And part of it is that nothing actually really fits the description of it anymore. 71 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,200 So these terms actually come out of this era of post-World War II, of creating the three 72 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,200 world. 73 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,600 So the first world is the US and its allies. 74 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,840 Second world is the USSR and its allies. 75 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,360 And the third world is just supposed to be anybody who's not aligned with them. 76 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,760 That's literally how it actually comes from. 77 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,120 I did not know that. 78 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,000 And I don't know that I've ever heard second world applied to anything. 79 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,920 And maybe that's because it is Russia. 80 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:21,400 I've never actually heard it used anywhere. 81 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,000 It wouldn't even be considered Russia anymore because it would have been the USSR and its 82 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,880 block, the Warsaw Pact more or less. 83 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,480 So it doesn't even really apply to Russia anymore. 84 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,000 So maybe that's why I never heard it over. 85 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Yeah. 86 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,760 The term third world and first world's kind of been picked up to kind of mean something 87 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,320 different outside of the Cold War ally blocks. 88 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,080 However, this is where it comes from. 89 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,080 And these are that group that comes out of it. 90 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,440 All these nations are coming up in South America, Africa and Asia. 91 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:49,840 Including their independence. 92 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,720 After World War II, the first big thing that really happens is the Korean War, which is 93 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,720 splitting a country of Korea against its north and south sides. 94 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,240 A lot of countries are looking at this, especially in that area. 95 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:07,120 And they're saying, wow, this is really a proxy fight between two big sides, the China 96 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,200 USSR side on one and the US and its allies on the other. 97 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,280 Is this going to happen to every one of our countries? 98 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,800 So these countries get together and they go to what's called the Bandung meeting. 99 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,480 It's in 1955 and it's a meeting of Asian and African states, most of which were just newly 100 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:26,880 independent, which took place on April 18th to 24th, 1955 and Badang, West Java, Indonesia. 101 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,480 There were 29 countries that participated representing a total population of 1.5 billion 102 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,360 people or 54% of the world's population. 103 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:40,480 It includes Indonesia, Burma, India, Salem, which is now Sri Lanka, Pakistan and quite 104 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,560 a few other countries are invited here. 105 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,400 And of Indonesia, Sukarno and India's Prime Minister, Nauru were key organizers and they 106 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,400 have a quest to build a non-aligned movement that would win the support of newly emerging 107 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,160 nations out of Asia and Africa. 108 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,720 Nauru, the Prime Minister of India, first got the idea at the Asian Relations Conference 109 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,320 held in India, March of 1947 on the eve of India's independence. 110 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:07,240 So this is a buildup of groups coming together and Mao Zedong of China also was a key organizer 111 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,600 of this backed by his influential right man, Premier and Foreign Minister, Zhou Enlai. 112 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,440 Mao believed that an anti-colonial nationalist and anti-imperial agenda was underway in Africa 113 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,520 and Asia and he wanted to make sure that China was kind of a leading force behind it. 114 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,520 In the separate to represent China as a model, Mao publicly maintained a friendly and conciliatory 115 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,320 tone towards newly independent Asian nations while simultaneously denouncing Western colonial 116 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,320 empires. 117 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,560 The Badang Conference reflected what the organizers regarded as a reluctance by Western powers 118 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,640 to consult with them on decisions affecting Asia in a setting of Cold War tensions. 119 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Their concern over tensions between the People's Republic of China and the United States, their 120 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,800 desire to lay firmer foundations for China's peace relations with themselves and the West, 121 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,120 and their opposition to colonialism, especially France's neocolonialism in North Africa and 122 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,040 his colonial rule in Algeria. 123 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:59,880 What comes out of the Badang meeting is a 10-point declaration on promotion of world peace and 124 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:00,880 cooperation. 125 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,280 So these countries get together and they say, look, we all kind of agree. 126 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:05,600 We want our independence. 127 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,080 We want to work together to make sure that we can do it. 128 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,560 These are the principles that we're going to follow, and there's 10 of them. 129 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,520 First, the respect of fundamental human rights and for the purposes and principles of the 130 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,240 Charter of the United Nations. 131 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,920 Second, the respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all nations. 132 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,640 Three, recognition of the equality of all races and of the equality of all nations, 133 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:25,640 large and small. 134 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,440 Four, the abstention from intervention or interference in the internal affairs of another 135 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:31,440 country. 136 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,760 Five, respect for the rights of each nation to defend itself singly or collectively in 137 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,200 conformity with the Charter of the United Nations. 138 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,960 Six, abstention from the use of arrangements of collective defense to serve any particular 139 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,920 interest of the big powers and an abstention by any country from exerting pressures on 140 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:48,920 other countries. 141 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,560 Seven, refraining from acts of threats or aggressions or the use of force against the 142 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,320 territorial integrity or political independence of any country. 143 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,960 Eight, settlement of all international disputes by peaceful means such as negotiation, conciliation, 144 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,600 arbitration or judicial settlement as well as other peaceful means of the party's own 145 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,880 choice in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations. 146 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,840 Nine, promotion of mutual interest and cooperation. 147 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,840 Ten, respect for justice international obligations. 148 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,680 So I read those and they sound pretty darn peaceful, do they not? 149 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,520 They sound incredibly peaceful, that's why I just said it. 150 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,560 Yeah, there's like half of them are like, hey, by the way, there should not be war. 151 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,040 China's included in this? 152 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,040 Yes. 153 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,240 They were one of the members that had a person there. 154 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,600 And this was all built on the five key peace principles too that Indonesia wants to follow, 155 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,880 which are mutual respect for each other's territorial integrity and sovereignty, mutual 156 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,600 non-aggression, mutual non-interference in domestic affairs, equality and mutual benefit 157 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,160 and peaceful coexistence. 158 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,720 That sounds exactly like I would describe China. 159 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,760 Well, the world today, of course, as it moved from here. 160 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Basically everything. 161 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:58,760 Yeah. 162 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,880 So what this Badung meeting happens from it, what gets taken away is an idea to form something 163 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,160 called the Non-Aligned Movement, generally shortened to NAM or NAM, just because, you 164 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,280 know, we like our shortened abbreviations. 165 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,400 This comes about in 1961, on the principles agreed to at the Badung Conference. 166 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,520 The Non-Aligned Movement was formally established in Belgrade, Yugoslavia through an initiative 167 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,880 of Yugoslav president, Joseph Petito and Indian Prime Minister, Nauru, Egyptians president, 168 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:31,880 Amal Nasser, Ghanian president, Huame Nakhruma and Indonesian president, Sukarno. 169 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,720 This led to the first conference of heads of states of governments of non-aligned countries 170 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,360 with the purpose of the organization being summarized by Fidel Castro in his Havana Declaration 171 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,720 of 1979 as to, quote, ensure the independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and security 172 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,520 of non-aligned countries in their struggle against imperialism, colonialism and neocolonialism, 173 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,040 racism and all forms of foreign aggression, occupation, domination, interference or hegemony, 174 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,440 as well as against great power and block politics, end quote. 175 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,520 Quite a few names there that came up, a little bit interesting that the Non-Aligned Movement, 176 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,240 if you know a bit of history, it does include countries that you would generally consider 177 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,000 part of the USSR block of countries, say Cuba and Yugoslavia. 178 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,080 But they at least consider themselves independent enough that they want to be part of the Non-Aligned 179 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,080 Movement. 180 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,960 It ends up being a weird kind of balance of somewhat fall onto one side of the coin, but 181 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,760 at the same time they are independent states who want to assert their independence. 182 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Was Cuba involved in the Cold War? 183 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,160 Yeah, it was the missile crisis. 184 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,800 Right, that's what I'm thinking of, okay. 185 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:34,800 Yeah. 186 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:35,800 Yeah, okay. 187 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Yeah, Mr. Burns famously didn't realize Fidel had won the Cuban Civil War and Batista was 188 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,200 still in power. 189 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,160 If anybody needs a Simpson's reference to be able to get this into their minds. 190 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,680 I was just saying the other day, a lot of references I have come from this instance. 191 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:51,680 Yes. 192 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:52,680 That's where I heard it first. 193 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:56,640 Yes, there's also a really good joke in that episode I didn't get until I was older, where 194 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,040 Castro seems pretty happy that in San Francisco they named a district after him, and then 195 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,440 he is whispered something. 196 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,880 And it turns out that it's the gay district of San Francisco that he is now learning at 197 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:07,880 that point. 198 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,880 We could do an episode just on like Simpson's. 199 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,000 Anyhow, back to this. 200 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,280 The countries of the non-aligned movement represent nearly two thirds of the United 201 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Nations members and contain 55% of the world's population. 202 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,560 Membership is particularly concentrated. 203 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:25,520 Countries considered to be in the developing countries, although non-aligned movements 204 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,720 also had a number of developed nations. 205 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,800 It really depends on where you draw that line. 206 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,040 Like Mexico is a part of it, Korea is a part of it. 207 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,120 They end up getting developed and a lot of countries end up leaving it just because they 208 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,320 are more developed than the actual non-aligned movement is generally. 209 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,000 And this group gains the most traction it's ever going to get in the fifties and early 210 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,160 sixties when the international policy of non-alignment achieves major successes in 211 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,400 decolonization, disarmament, and opposition to racism and opposition to apartheid South 212 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Africa. 213 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,080 A really big push from them is that apartheid states cannot exist because that is kind of 214 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,240 subverting classes of people. 215 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,240 They're also- 216 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,920 Can we just remind people listening what apartheid is? 217 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,760 Yeah, apartheid is a subjugation of one class of people under another, whether it's based 218 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:14,840 on race, ethnicity, or regional background, color of skin, religion. 219 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,880 So if you're black in South Africa in the nineties and back, basically you couldn't 220 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,160 go into certain parts of the town, was okay not to serve these people. 221 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,480 They couldn't vote. 222 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,280 They're second class citizens. 223 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:26,280 Exactly. 224 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,280 Just to catch everyone's attention. 225 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Also they, at this time too, also call out Israel for being an apartheid state, which 226 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,960 is kind of a very early adoption of that term. 227 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,600 Oh, okay. 228 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,200 This entire kind of idea of decolonization, disarmament, and opposition to racism persists 229 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,440 throughout the entire Cold War, despite several conflicts between members, because India and 230 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Pakistan are both members, they fight constantly. 231 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,360 But they kind of both agree. 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,040 They want colonization to just stay out of them fucking with each other. 233 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,840 And despite the fact that many of the members of these countries do end up developing some 234 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,560 relationships with the USSR, China, and the US, they're still part of the online movement 235 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:05,800 overall, which is what I said earlier. 236 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,720 One of the quotations that basically from the declaration of this non-alignment movement 237 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,560 I quite like is, peace cannot be achieved with separation, but with the aspirations 238 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:18,080 towards collective security in global terms and expansion of freedom as well as terminating 239 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,800 the domination of one country over another. 240 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,800 End quote. 241 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Yeah, I do like that. 242 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,000 And this group meets regularly every three years through the non-alignment summit. 243 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,320 The chairman rotates to the country organizing the summit. 244 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,320 Basically they'll get together. 245 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,000 They'll all agree on a few things they're going to try to push between the summit and 246 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000 the next one. 247 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,560 And they'll act as a voting block towards that. 248 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,560 So I can't help but notice. 249 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:46,200 I don't want to spoil the episode, but I have not heard of one taking place recently. 250 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,160 We will get to that actually. 251 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,160 Okay. 252 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,160 Don't worry. 253 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,160 Okay. 254 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,800 The requirement for membership of the non-aligned movement coincided with the key beliefs of 255 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:55,960 the United Nations. 256 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,640 Current requirements are that the candidate country has displayed practices in accordance 257 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,240 with the 10 Badang principles of 1955. 258 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,560 If you wanted to join this, you actually had to show that you're willing to actually act 259 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:13,040 within that, you know, happy kind of demilitarized peace agreement of those 10 points. 260 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,480 From this group, Chelsea, comes the G77. 261 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:17,720 Does that mean anything to you? 262 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,080 I mean, you take one seven out and I think we have that. 263 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,080 Yeah. 264 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,200 No, I think you know what the G7 is, right? 265 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,760 I'm pretty sure that I do. 266 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:26,760 Okay. 267 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:27,760 Yeah. 268 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:28,760 You can explain it if you would like. 269 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,760 It's the group of seven at the UN, it is considered the seven most industrially developed 270 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,880 countries kind of get together and they all agree on what their plan is going to be moving 271 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:38,880 forward. 272 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,960 So from that, what do you think the G77 is? 273 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,120 The same thing, but 77 countries. 274 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,880 That seems like the natural way to go. 275 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,320 So I'm going to explain it from here. 276 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,800 Either that or it's just to name someone throughout and they liked it. 277 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,640 I had never heard of this before. 278 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:58,000 I offhandedly heard it in a podcast episode and I tried doing research, couldn't really 279 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,000 find anything. 280 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,480 And then I finally started to learn more about them. 281 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,640 The G77 is the natural continuation of the non aligned movement. 282 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,320 It is a group of 77 countries, which was established on June 15th, 1964 with a joint declaration 283 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,440 of the 77 developing countries issued at the end of the first session of the United Nations 284 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:19,880 conference on trade and development in Geneva, beginning with the first ministerial meeting 285 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,840 of the group of 77 in Algeria on October 10th to 25th, 1967. 286 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,960 It adopted the charter of Algiers. 287 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,680 It has permanent institution structure gradually developed, which led to chapters all over 288 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,680 the world. 289 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,200 It has an aims to basically act as a voting block within the UN. 290 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,600 The G77 comes from the non aligned movement. 291 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,960 It is basically non aligned countries throughout the Cold War. 292 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,600 And they say there are 77 of us if we can all vote along the same lines. 293 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,400 And just so that we understand what the General Assembly Chelsea, when you're voting in the 294 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,000 General Assembly, there's five countries in the UN who have veto power, no matter what 295 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,000 they want. 296 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,920 It's unanimous consent throughout one of these countries. 297 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,480 And they're saying, no, we're not doing that. 298 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,480 I think we knew that. 299 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Yes, we do know that. 300 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:12,720 But what the G77 is saying is with 77 countries all voting in unison towards certain directions, 301 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,480 we can actually sway the movement of votes just as much as one of those veto powers because 302 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,800 nobody can get majority consent without these 77 countries. 303 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,400 Okay, that makes sense. 304 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,480 So they came up with their own thing. 305 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,400 Yeah, so the group of 77 is largest intergovernmental organization of developing countries in the 306 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,640 United Nations, which provides the means for the countries of the South to articulate and 307 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,920 promote their collective economic interests and enhance their joint negotiating capacity 308 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,440 on all major international economic issues within the United Nations system and promote 309 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,160 South-South cooperation to for development. 310 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,640 And just so we're on the same page when we're talking about South, it's what's commonly 311 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,200 referred to as the North-South divide in that the southern half of the globe is generally 312 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,600 considered where all the poverty is and where all the developing nations are. 313 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,560 So when they talk about the South divide, it's that these countries are developing. 314 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:03,640 They're the third world. 315 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:04,840 They want to stick together. 316 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,880 Are we using third world in the sense that you unaligned? 317 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:08,880 Yes. 318 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,880 Yes, okay. 319 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,040 But it more or less means the exact same thing here. 320 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,840 And the G77, this was their policy. 321 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Any measure which was of interest to most members of the G77 should be supported by the entire 322 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,920 group so long as the measure did not militate against the interests of any member of the 323 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:24,920 group. 324 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,560 On the other hand, there was a conflict of interest and effort should be made to find 325 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,520 a consensus on it with the G77 as a whole. 326 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:37,080 The issue wasn't erased in high level consultation between G77 and the Secretary General of UN 327 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,240 CTAD and an understanding was reached on the broad approach to be followed to deal with 328 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,720 it more or less based on the suggestions made in paper. 329 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:52,520 So the G77 will get its member groups together right before the UN summit starts annually. 330 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,960 And they all basically say, here's what's coming up on the docket. 331 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,600 This is how we're going to vote on all of it. 332 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,600 This is how we're going to try to negotiate on everything and we're going to do it as 333 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,320 a solid block. 334 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:06,200 And from this, there's certain areas that the developing world tries to focus on a lot 335 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,680 more than, like, say the G7 does these days. 336 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,800 Regarding environmental matters, the G77's position is that the developed countries bear 337 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,200 historical responsibility for greenhouse gas emissions, pointing out also the disparity 338 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,560 of per capita emissions between the developing and developed countries. 339 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:27,560 The G7 versus G77, I feel like would have completely different agenda. 340 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,800 Yes, they do. 341 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:35,080 Like G77 is focused on the environment, economic development, poverty, eradication, the transfer 342 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:40,400 of IP, intellectual property to the developing world so it can develop faster instead of 343 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,440 having to pay exorbitant fees towards developing it. 344 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,600 The G77 actually predates the G7 by over a decade. 345 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:52,320 And in fact, the G7 is a response to the G77. 346 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,120 Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 347 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,960 I was going to assume that it wasn't like, didn't happen at the same time. 348 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:04,040 But I feel like the big guys probably came in for the G7 and just like, I feel like it 349 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,840 would have gone better with the G7. 350 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,760 All the developing countries and stuff like that in there probably would have gone better, 351 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,880 but then all the big guys come in. 352 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,560 Well, and you got to remember too, the G7 is just basically the first world. 353 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,600 It's the US and its allies. 354 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,360 It was the G8 for a little bit when the USSR broke up and Russia joined it, but it's no 355 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:23,360 longer a part of that. 356 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:24,720 It's back to the G7. 357 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,920 And it is just the first world and I'm using it in the traditional sense of the term, allies. 358 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,840 So it completely leads out the second world as well. 359 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,880 It just ends up to push the agenda of Europe and North America. 360 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,520 Basically how this all flows is to keep it just kind of on track. 361 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,400 We have that badang meeting at the beginning, which leads to the non aligned movement, which 362 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,400 leads to the G77 and the G77 being the largest of all of those groups. 363 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,400 I'm following. 364 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:59,200 And from there, the G77 wants to push and this is absolutely going to be a trigger term 365 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,200 for anybody in the conspiracy community, but it's the new international economic order. 366 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,240 So a new world order is something that comes up constantly in conspiracies, but these guys 367 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,880 are literally just saying the economic order is literally just there's a couple of countries 368 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,560 on top that dictate everything to us and we never get anything. 369 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,560 So I mean, that makes sense in the term anyway. 370 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,840 Yeah, exactly. 371 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,520 And they basically say this is the new international economic order. 372 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,480 Their main principles are for their sovereign equality of all states with non interference 373 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,920 in their internal affairs, their effective participation in solving world problems and 374 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,200 the right to adopt their own economic and social systems to full sovereignty of all 375 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,880 states over its natural resources and other economic activity necessary for development 376 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,880 as well as regulation of transnational corporations. 377 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,360 Three, just in equitable relations between the price of raw materials and other goods 378 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,000 exported by developing countries and the prices of raw materials and other goods exported 379 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,080 by the developed countries and for strengthening of bilateral multilateral international assistance 380 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,520 to promote industrialization in the developing countries through in particular the provisioning 381 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:09,400 of sufficient financial resources and opportunities for transfer of appropriate techniques and 382 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,200 technologies and they wanted four reforms with this as well. 383 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,000 One, overhaul of rules of international trade, especially concerning raw materials, foods 384 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,600 and the systems of preference and reprosperity commodity agreements, transportation and insurance. 385 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,960 Two, reform to international monetary systems and other financing mechanisms to bring them 386 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,920 into line with the developing needs. 387 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:34,120 Three, both financial and technology transfers, incentives and assistance for industrializations, 388 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:35,920 projects in developing countries. 389 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,040 This industrialization is understood as essential for the diversification of economies, which 390 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,080 during colonization folks some very restrictive range of raw materials and for the promotion 391 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,520 of cooperation among the countries of the south with a view to greater individual collective 392 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,560 autonomy, broader participation and enhanced involvement in international trade. 393 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,720 This was supposed to be the economic cooperation among development countries, which replaces 394 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,120 colonial dependence with new international relationships among developing countries 395 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,040 based on trade. 396 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,240 And you know what, in 1974, at least part of this gets passed. 397 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,600 They adopt the declaration for the establishment of a new international economic order in 398 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,160 the UN along with its accompanying program of actions and formalized a sentiment among 399 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,160 nation states. 400 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,760 And a few months later, the UN General Assembly adopted the charter of economic rights and 401 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:25,960 duties of states. 402 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,240 However, really pisses off the US. 403 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,760 The United States government rejected the NIEO, which is the new international economic 404 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,920 order immediately and conservatives, new conservatives and libertarians criticized 405 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,240 the new economic order. 406 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:45,200 They basically think it's like the apocalypse and the communists are winning at this point. 407 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,520 1974, absolutely terrifying the NIEO. 408 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:54,960 For example, economist Harry Johnson criticized the NIEO for using central planning and monopolistic 409 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,160 powers to extort transfers of income and wealth from the developed countries. 410 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,240 In his view, commanding prices for raw materials above their natural level usually reduces consumption 411 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,480 and thus causes unemployment among producers and price regulations typically gives the 412 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,280 extra income to those in control of who is allowed to produce. 413 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,720 Newly elected president Ronald Reagan took these calls for market led foreign policies 414 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:23,400 to the North South Summit in Cancun in 1981 and basically said to these heads of state 415 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,880 that private investment and free markets were the surest path to development, prosperity 416 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,600 and democracy. 417 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,000 So the US is having none of the NIEO like basically like, no, you just got to participate 418 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,080 and let us do our thing because we're invested in making everybody better and that's how 419 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,200 democracies happen. 420 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,200 Exactly. 421 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,200 Yeah. 422 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:48,080 So basically all they've ever done at the UN is the declaration for the establishment 423 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,440 of the NIEO since 1974. 424 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,360 There's only been one thing that's been passed and it was in 2018 and it was a resolution 425 00:22:55,360 --> 00:23:00,240 towards a new international economic order and it just basically keeps it visible in 426 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,440 the policy arena and they basically said like, well, maybe you can do some stuff with regards 427 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,240 to if you really don't like big conglomerate international corporations, maybe you don't 428 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,920 have to do business with them. 429 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,680 But like that's about it. 430 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:13,880 Oh my God. 431 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,200 So yeah, that's kind of a height of the G77 is kind of the NIEO period. 432 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,120 Right around this time, 1974 is right around when the Vietnam War is ending, Nixon's coming 433 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:30,040 into power and the OPEC oil crisis happens as well, which I think you remember Chelsea, 434 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,040 right? 435 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,040 I don't know. 436 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,040 Maybe. 437 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,760 Basically a bunch of oil producing exporting countries, OPEC, all come to an agreement 438 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,360 and say we're going to jack up the price of oil or cut them. 439 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:41,560 And sorry, I'm doing a very short version of this. 440 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,200 There's a lot more to it than just this, but OPEC countries, there's a bunch of them, 441 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,760 UAE, all of the Middle East, I believe Russia was not part of it at this point, but they 442 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,280 all say like, let's cut the supply of oil and jack the prices up so that we can all 443 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,280 profit hard. 444 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:55,280 Yeah. 445 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,400 The US is seeing these pushes around the world for kind of independence from them and they 446 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,800 just decide like, we're not going to have any of this anymore. 447 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,040 G7 comes out. 448 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,680 This is where they start to plan as a group, how they're going to push for their agenda 449 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,840 and where things really start to change. 450 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,560 This is becoming sad. 451 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,760 And it seemed to start on such a good base. 452 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:14,760 Really did. 453 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,640 And I should say the implementation of the NIEO has faced numerous challenges. 454 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,160 One of the main issues of the growing economic inequality, hyper-globalization, which began 455 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,040 gaining traction in the 1980s and accelerated after the world cold war, effectively overturning 456 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,520 the Bretton Woods consensus. 457 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,160 It's just basically the post-World War II international relations and economies. 458 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,840 The new order created largely by the Western policymakers was designed to greatly reduce 459 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,400 regulation of global markets by removing controls on capital flows. 460 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,320 And the new trade organizations were intended to open up markets all over the world and 461 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,960 make it especially difficult for governments to pursue protectionist policies. 462 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,560 And that's what a lot of the policies that they're driving for with the NIEO is to say 463 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,120 we need to stand on level ground so the developing world needs some protections. 464 00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:00,840 And those protections, if anything, somehow disappeared more after they asked for them. 465 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,760 Funny how that works. 466 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600 The liberal international order, which was a framework of the NIEO, has been crumbling 467 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,600 for a long time. 468 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,120 The number of liberal democracies has been declining in the world since 2006, reversing 469 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,200 a trend that once looked unstoppable. 470 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,240 So you know, falling more into dictatorships than democracies from here on out. 471 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,720 Yeah, actually, yeah. 472 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,720 Yep. 473 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,720 I think so. 474 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,520 Basically, from here, we can go into what happens to the G77. 475 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,640 As G77 is embedded in the United Nations, its impact and effectiveness and its achievements 476 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,680 and failures have been largely dependent on the rise and fall and success and failures 477 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,880 of the United Nations. 478 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,560 The group functioned extraordinarily effectively and vigorously during the longest part of 479 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,320 the Golden Area of International Economic Cooperation under the United Nations. 480 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,720 That is 1964 to late 70s. 481 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,080 Its decline started from the beginning of the decline of the United Nations from the 482 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,080 early 1980s. 483 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,640 There is a consensus that this outcome was brought about by a well-planned concerted 484 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,680 attack on the UN by major developed countries. 485 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,560 And there is really no way to restore G77 to its past glory and dynamism without restoring 486 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,000 the UN and its charter functions which were snatched away from it and without restructuring 487 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,040 its capabilities, which have been systematically dismantled over the last three decades. 488 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,160 Well as well as the countries that were included in it would no longer fit, some of them. 489 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,280 We would think, but it was the global south that was in it and it's more or less still 490 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,280 the global south. 491 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,320 Chelsea I want you to go to the Wikipedia page for the G77. 492 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,720 It has a map of the members in it. 493 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,280 But I mean the G77 charter, yeah they're all still there. 494 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,080 But they had like what they stood for right? 495 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,760 And I mean China was in that to me that just does not apply to them anymore. 496 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,400 And it's called the G77 plus China that's the name for it now. 497 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,640 It is still around, it has a membership that has 135 countries at this point. 498 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,800 And basically it has a good summary of what these countries are on its page. 499 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,520 It is first and foremost every country in the world except if you're part of the Council 500 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,040 of Europe, except for Azerbaijan because they're part of this. 501 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,480 Except if you're a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States Free Trade Area except 502 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,720 Tajikistan. 503 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:12,360 And except for members of the OECD, the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development. 504 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,280 Except Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica and Mexico. 505 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,320 And I like that they have these general rules and then accepts in them. 506 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,320 Yeah, accept. 507 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,320 There's a lot of accepts. 508 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,200 And then there's two microstates that aren't in it. 509 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,320 They're called Palau and Tuvalu, which I actually just heard in the news today. 510 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:33,520 Anyhow, it is massive but there was an undermining of the power of the UN in the 1980s. 511 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,840 I found a quote from which could Dubai, I'm sorry I'm not sure how to say it, it's an 512 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,600 Indian name, he's an Indian diplomat who was part of a negotiator for the G77 in the 1970s 513 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:45,720 and 1980s. 514 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,320 And he said this, unfortunately by the 1980s, major developed countries had already started 515 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,320 their assault to enfeeble the UN and transform its mad base. 516 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,760 The process of transferring the UN charter functions in the economic field to the International 517 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,800 Monetary Fund, World Bank and General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade was in full swing. 518 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,960 So were there relentless efforts to reduce the staff strengths and put a freeze on the 519 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,000 budget of UN organizations. 520 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,240 So the US is big plan through working with these countries in the UN is to say we're 521 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,280 actually going to focus mostly on the IMF and the World Bank because they fund a lot 522 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,280 of your development. 523 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,880 The US subverts a lot of the world by getting them to take loan from the IMF and then they're 524 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,600 not able to pay back those loans. 525 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,800 So they make those countries focus on austerity, cutting their funding for social structure, 526 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,960 safety nets and following policies as the USC spit. 527 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,960 And that's really how they undermined the G77 that and you know, there's a lot of coups 528 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,320 in this time that are really funded by the US. 529 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,360 There's all through South America. 530 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,200 They're all meant to undermine what happened during this time. 531 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,400 Wow, I learned a lot in that episode. 532 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,080 And I just want to get back to your question. 533 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,200 I'm thinking that the NAMM isn't around, not aligned movement. 534 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,200 Well, their next meeting is in January of 2024. 535 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,200 Oh, so they're still around. 536 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,200 Yeah. 537 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,680 They've definitely changed, especially both of the G77 and the non-aligned movement had 538 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,360 to kind of focus themselves once the Cold War ended. 539 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,040 And ever since there's not a paradigm of Cold War powers, they've lost a lot of relevancy 540 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,120 because of that, because there's no check and balance on power against the old. 541 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,720 Yeah, that makes sense. 542 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,120 Now with the G77 and the non-aligned movement, they did end up getting a lot more support 543 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,840 from USSR. 544 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,720 It depends on how you want to look at it. 545 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,880 You'll see some people just talk about that as propaganda and trying to subvert economies 546 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:35,880 in the world. 547 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,880 You could also say that there's an argument, or at least what they're actually trying 548 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,480 to do is just say if people are naturally left with their own choices, they'll naturally 549 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,880 end up flowing to communism. 550 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,560 And let's just help them get to that point. 551 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Of course, that's not what most websites say these days, and that might not actually 552 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,320 be what it is. 553 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:57,800 The G77 plus China's conference in Cuba just ended right before the UN assembly takes place. 554 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,320 In Cuba, I believe the Secretary General actually spoke at it. 555 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,680 He's got some pretty interesting stuff, and it's basically saying that we need to focus 556 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,040 on the development of the developing world, stop hoarding its resources from it, and let 557 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,760 them have a spot at the table. 558 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,960 There's a lot more to it than just that, but I thought it was pretty interesting. 559 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960 Do they still meet before the UN? 560 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,960 Yeah, just happened. 561 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,440 I mean, you never hear about it on the news. 562 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,640 You always hear G7, but we're a part of the G7, so I guess that's why you would hear 563 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:25,640 about it. 564 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:31,200 G77 just met, and most people wouldn't even be able to tell you what that is. 565 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,400 So, at least now you know, and you can kind of keep an eye on what's going on. 566 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,640 They do in fact have a website where they keep all of their stuff on it, just g77.org, 567 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:39,640 I believe. 568 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,160 So now you can walk around asking people if they know what the G77 is, and if they say 569 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,960 no, you can just go walk away. 570 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,480 You don't want to talk to that person. 571 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,240 But as we say here, it's history. 572 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,360 We fucking learned it. 573 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:53,360 So yeah, yeah. 574 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,160 It was my new thing I learned for the day, I'm done. 575 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,920 Cold War, everybody knows about it, but most people I don't think know about that middle 576 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,000 ground that was tried to push throughout it. 577 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,840 That was in the end subverted, but it was at least attempted, and it was going to be 578 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,480 the peaceful option, honestly, if you read what they actually wanted to push. 579 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,680 They gave it a good peaceful shot. 580 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,360 Chelsea, anything that you're curious about or want to talk about? 581 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360 I do not think so. 582 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,360 Okay. 583 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,560 This is not my forte, but I did learn some things. 584 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:21,560 Yeah. 585 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,080 I'm pretty sure most people will, like when I was doing research for this, it is slim 586 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,600 pickings actually going through it. 587 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,520 A lot of the people who will actually talk about the online movement are talking about 588 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,360 how clearly it's just to show that you need the free market to take over. 589 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360 And oh, look, it's a right wing think tank is actually writing that article. 590 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,680 So you just got to kind of go and try to find the actual sources. 591 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,680 But G77 incredibly rare to actually see anything written about it. 592 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,280 Yeah, I would assume as much. 593 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,760 Anyhow, I've been Taylor here with Chelsea. 594 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,200 We are Journey to the Fringe. 595 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,040 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 596 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,040 Bye. 597 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,040 Bye. 598 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,120 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 599 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,160 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow 600 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,480 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 601 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:10,640 Also please, if possible, leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 602 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,440 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 603 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,200 I bet you we are there. 604 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,640 But if 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