1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,200 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:19,640 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the ingrown hair of a well-kept beard of normalcy. 3 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,000 We are your hosts, some of whom may be dealing with facial hair issues, Taylor and Chelsea. 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,360 And today Chelsea has selected to not tell me what we will be talking about. 5 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,440 So I just have to at this point just turn it over to her because I'm out of words. 6 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,440 That is what I selected. 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,440 Words are particularly hard for us sometimes. 8 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Or easy. 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,040 I feel like I'm always keeping the topic back from you these days. 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,880 But I want to see in normal fashion if you can guess this week's topic. 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Here's your hint. 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,920 And everyone can play along with us as well. 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,640 So long as you haven't read the title properly in this episode. 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:55,640 Exactly. 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:56,880 And maybe I won't give it away in the title. 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,360 If you've just like naturally flowed into this episode from another episode and haven't 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:02,840 looked at your phone since. 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,120 Yeah, don't look at it. 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,320 And boy are you like we have a niche audience. 20 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:16,920 Okay, this episode is about a type of witch who is not a healer, but rather has the supernatural 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:23,920 ability to turn into, possess or disguise themselves as animals, aka a shapeshifter. 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,920 Is it a skinwalker? 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,920 Yeah. 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:26,920 Okay. 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,920 Okay. 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,120 You heard it from Taylor who had no idea what this episode was about. 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,120 That's right. 28 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,320 This week's episode of Journey to the Fringe, we get the immense pleasure of finally talking 29 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,720 about skinwalkers. 30 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,440 The Navajo have some of the most interesting lore surrounding skinwalkers. 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,880 Pretty much exclusively because it's their lore. 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:57,120 The Navajo are part of a larger cultural area that also includes the Pueblo people, Apache, 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:03,040 Hopi and Yut and other groups that also have their own versions of the skinwalker. 34 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,560 Skinwalker is exclusive to the Navajo. 35 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:11,880 Each one of them includes a malevolent witch capable of transforming itself into an animal. 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,520 With that being said, I do need to acknowledge first and foremost that I'm not First Nations. 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:24,760 The skinwalker is very much Navajo lore, which is, it's particularly taboo to even talk about 38 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:30,360 the skinwalker or even say its name, nor do they like talking especially with those who 39 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,040 are outside of the indigenous community. 40 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,160 That being said, this is a paranormal subject that is of particular interest to us and we 41 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:44,240 want to cover it, so I'm sorry, but I've done my very best with this, as I possibly 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,240 could. 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,200 I also must disclose at this point that there are going to be some really good words for 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,600 pronouncing in this episode. 45 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,440 So let's move on now that I have all that out of the way. 46 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Now I do have a question Chelsea, is it just a really weird coincidence that skinwalker 47 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:05,600 sounds the way it does in English and seems to, like, I'm assuming that's the native name 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:06,600 for it, correct? 49 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:07,600 No. 50 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,600 Okay. 51 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,600 And that's literally my next sentence. 52 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:10,600 Okay. 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:17,680 I'm not sure actually where skinwalker comes from, that word. 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,000 So maybe they just gave it a name in English? 55 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,080 I don't know. 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,400 That would be just speculation on my part, but they do have a word for it in Navajo. 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,400 Okay. 58 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,520 And it's not just a direct translation that comes to skinwalker, okay? 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:32,520 No. 60 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,520 Okay. 61 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:34,520 I'm about to enlighten you. 62 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,520 Here's my next sentence. 63 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:42,120 So the word in the native language, the Yinaldushi, which literally means with it he goes on all 64 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,400 fours, is one of several varieties of skinwalker. 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,360 Specifically they are a type of antidehini. 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,200 I don't actually know how to say that and it is some letters that don't look like they 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:57,200 go together. 68 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,680 So I do apologize. 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,200 I hate doing this, but I'm sorry. 70 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,840 That word means practitioners of witchery. 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:09,160 They are people who have received supernatural power by breaking a cultural taboo. 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:16,480 Upon the initiation of the antidehini, a person is said to gain the power to become a Yinaldushi. 73 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:17,480 How do you spell this? 74 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,480 A with an accent, N, T, a prostrophe. 75 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,600 I think that's J, J, H, N, I, I. 76 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,040 H, oh, okay. 77 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,040 That's not as easy as I thought it would be. 78 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:35,200 Are you sure you didn't mean Anthony because my search result asked if you spiked it right 79 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Anthony? 80 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,200 No, actually now that I look at it, it is Anthony. 81 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,200 Anthony. 82 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,200 Kidding, kidding. 83 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:49,440 I mean, we are such good pronounce eaters that I wouldn't surprise me if it was Anthony. 84 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:56,200 A person is said to gain the power to become a Yinaldushi, which is a skinwalker if I lost 85 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:57,200 you. 86 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,720 This is done via a song and dance ceremony used to curse instead of heal. 87 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,840 So you see the evilness there. 88 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:11,080 Although both men and women can become a antidehini, men are more commonly initiated 89 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,120 and it can however be both. 90 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,200 It's generally thought that only childless women can become witches. 91 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,800 Not every witch is a skinwalker, but every skinwalker is a witch. 92 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:27,560 In some stories, people who have attained the highest rank are called pliziati, which 93 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,640 means pure evil. 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:36,000 This can be achieved by killing a close blood relative, incest, necrophilia, or other culturally 95 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,000 taboo and evil acts. 96 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,520 Upon completing one or more of these acts, this is said to destroy their humanity and 97 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,480 allow them to become fully initiated into the way of witchery. 98 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Basically, it represents the antithesis of Navajo cultural values and is this person 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,720 which has corrupted the natural order of things and is working for evil. 100 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:03,320 That weirdly kind of aligns with what cults and gangs kind of do to separate people from 101 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,240 their society is basically the more the last steps are taking cultural taboos so that you're 102 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,360 disowned by the group that you're from. 103 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,360 So that's interesting. 104 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,360 That makes sense. 105 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:14,360 Yeah. 106 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,200 I mean, you see that in a lot of tales. 107 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:23,760 I think we've addressed it in the past as well for things that are outside of cultural 108 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:24,760 norms. 109 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,040 They make up different creatures and stuff like that to warn against it as well. 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,360 This is a little bit different, but you do see that a lot. 111 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,840 Well, yeah, we just kind of came off of that with the boogie man slash the deals with the 112 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:41,720 devils because they're both talking about more so just general warnings that they want 113 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:43,520 to convey to the younger generations. 114 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,680 So the legend of the skinwalker is not well understood outside of the Navajo culture like 115 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:54,320 I kind of already addressed, both due to reluctance to discuss the subject with outsiders as well 116 00:06:54,320 --> 00:07:01,320 as what Cherokee Nation academic Adrian Keeney says is a lack of the necessary cultural context 117 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,240 the stories are embedded within. 118 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,200 Well, it's a good thing every person that I've ever heard talk about it is not Navajo. 119 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:09,200 Yeah. 120 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:15,480 I had a really, really, really hard time finding any Navajo people talking. 121 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:21,120 I was able to find one which refined my notes, but I feel like I probably don't even come 122 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,280 close to touching what this is, but I still wanted to cover it so that we can still have 123 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,280 a little bit more of an understanding of this because I didn't even know any of this about 124 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:31,280 it. 125 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Traditional Navajo are reluctant to reveal skinwalker lore to non Navajos or to discuss 126 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,040 it at all among those who they do not trust. 127 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,440 Because of that, there is a definite lack of actual skinwalker encounter stories, confusion 128 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,200 about what a skinwalker actually is, and just general lack of information on skinwalkers 129 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,440 that isn't whitewashed. 130 00:07:53,440 --> 00:08:00,120 Keeney, founder of the website Native Appropriations has written in response to non Navajos incorporating 131 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,140 the legends into their writing. 132 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:08,840 This one specifically the impact when JK Rowling did so, she wrote something about skinwalkers 133 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:14,320 that when this is done, quote, we as native people are now opened up to a barrage of questions 134 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:19,320 about these beliefs and traditions, but these are not things that need or should be discussed 135 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,880 by outsiders at all. 136 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,160 I'm sorry if that seems unfair, but that's how our cultures survive. 137 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,920 So that brings a little bit more understanding to it, and I'm saying this on a podcast where 138 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,000 I'm talking about it. 139 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,320 She's not lost on me, but I otherwise didn't know this. 140 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,440 So I think that also talks a little bit about just the history behind it and stuff like 141 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,680 that as well, that I don't think a lot of people know. 142 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:49,320 Well, yeah, the people that are talking about this are generally in the conspiracy world. 143 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,840 I feel like they take some liberties with the information. 144 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:57,920 Not only that, but anytime I've heard any talk about skinwalkers, I've never heard that 145 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,840 information I just gave you. 146 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:05,600 So I feel like that's as important in telling the story of what I was able to find about 147 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:12,520 skinwalkers, whether it's correct or not in Navajo Legends, which it probably isn't, but 148 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,080 that is just as important to go along with the other stuff I'm going to tell you. 149 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,240 It's especially great if you don't want somebody challenging your narrative on your answer 150 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,240 to something. 151 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,200 And like if you're talking about skinwalkers, the people actually know about it aren't going 152 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,160 to call you out on it or say this is wrong because they don't want to talk about it. 153 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:30,160 That's true. 154 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:31,160 Yeah. 155 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,160 So let's talk now that I've got kind of through that stuff. 156 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,880 Let's talk about skinwalkers. 157 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:41,720 They shape shift into an animal at will that they have killed and skinned, marked with 158 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,080 designs, put it through another ritual to be able to be worn to shape shift into and 159 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,280 they transform by wearing that pelt. 160 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:56,520 The skin may just be a mask of the animal, which is the only garment worn in the initiation 161 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:03,880 ritual, and some Navajos describe the skinwalker as a perfect version of the animal in question. 162 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,800 So it has perfect fur. 163 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,760 It has perfect coloring. 164 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Everything about it is perfect. 165 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,520 There's no earwraps. 166 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,520 It's making me. 167 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Oh, good. 168 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:17,520 Okay. 169 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:18,520 Yeah. 170 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:25,400 They are most frequently seen as a coyote, a wolf, a fox, eagle, owl, or a crow. 171 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:31,200 The Yinalduci is said to have the power to assume the form of any animal they choose, 172 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,400 a decision based on what specific abilities are needed for them at that specific moment. 173 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,960 So for example, they have to have killed it and pelted it. 174 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:40,960 Yes. 175 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,960 Yeah. 176 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,600 Which will be relevant to something I say soon, hopefully. 177 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:51,280 So for example, a skinwalker may use a crow if they need to travel really fast in pursuit 178 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,400 of something or to escape or otherwise. 179 00:10:54,400 --> 00:11:00,000 Some of these animals are also mostly associated with witchcraft as well, which would be like 180 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,480 the trickster coyote from what? 181 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:03,480 The crow and owl. 182 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:04,480 And the rodents, yeah. 183 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,480 Yeah. 184 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,920 They're also associated with death or bad omens. 185 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,040 So do they have to skin the bird? 186 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:11,040 Yeah. 187 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,040 Maybe. 188 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,840 I don't think birds work like that because they have feathers. 189 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,240 Yeah, that's my worry. 190 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,280 With the feathers stay on it? 191 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,280 That's the hard part. 192 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:22,280 I'm trying to figure this out. 193 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 But also, I'm a little bit curious if they could skin a human. 194 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,880 I mean, yeah, you could. 195 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,880 We've all seen. 196 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,880 Okay. 197 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,400 Now, what about creatures that don't necessarily skin? 198 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,440 Can you give a spider? 199 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,120 No, because in a talk about this, let's just talk about it now. 200 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:45,320 You can't, like, they're not going to be able to shape shift into a spider because logically, 201 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,120 that just doesn't make sense, a human becoming a spider. 202 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,120 Oh, that's the ridiculous part. 203 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Okay. 204 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,120 It's just logical. 205 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,360 Okay, but like a raccoon size. 206 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,240 No, like you couldn't. 207 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,240 No. 208 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Okay, it's just not logical. 209 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,240 No, it's not. 210 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,240 It's too tiny. 211 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,240 I mean, a bird meat. 212 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:06,240 What about a turtle? 213 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,240 What about a turtle? 214 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,920 No, too small, maybe, because a turtle would be the size of it. 215 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,400 No, turtles can be huge. 216 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,120 But you don't really skin it. 217 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,120 You can't skin it. 218 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,680 You just like steal it's shell. 219 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:19,680 Yeah, okay. 220 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:25,160 Yeah, so blah, blah, blah, bad omen. 221 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,360 And just sorry, a little bit more along this line of reasoning I'd like to discuss. 222 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,800 They're just located here, right? 223 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:38,080 So there hasn't been like a rise in the last 50 years or so of travel for the purpose of 224 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,320 gaining like exotic powers for skin walkers. 225 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,640 All you're going to Africa and getting some lines. 226 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,080 So all your questions, I promise you are going to be answered. 227 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,080 Okay. 228 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,600 So be patient and sink ships or however that day in goes. 229 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,760 I'll save my ship sinking for the end. 230 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,440 I think that's how that works. 231 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,720 These are also animals that are seen in the Navajo Nation. 232 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,520 So they're not going to really shape shift into like a zebra or something or a mouse. 233 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,160 It's not an appropriate size. 234 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,400 Just doesn't make sense. 235 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:17,320 So skin walkers are specific to Navajo territory. 236 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:24,600 And how I heard talk about it, the skin walker and Navajos gain the power from the Navajo 237 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,760 surrounding the hills, the mountains, the landscape and the animals. 238 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Yeah. 239 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,720 Where I've heard it talked about, it's not impossible that they could travel and spend 240 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,640 time in the landscape somewhere else and be able to gain power from a different location 241 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,640 once they're familiar with the territory. 242 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,440 But it's highly unlikely that they're going to gain the same type of power that the skin 243 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,920 walkers do in their traditional territory. 244 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:59,120 So when we talk about this, you're not likely to see skin walkers anywhere else other than 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,640 the Navajo territory. 246 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,400 If you're seeing something else similar to this, you're seeing something else. 247 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:10,520 Some Navajo also believe that skin walkers have the ability to steal the face of a person. 248 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,760 They are commonly believed to be the color white while in animal form. 249 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,840 This is how many distinguish a skin walker in animal form from a regular animal. 250 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,520 The Navajo believe that if you ever lock eyes with the skin walker, they can absorb themselves 251 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:25,960 into your body. 252 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Locking eyes aside, it is said that the skin walker can possess a living animal or people 253 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,440 and walk around in their bodies. 254 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,200 Alternatively, some Navajos believe that if you make eye contact with the skin walker, 255 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,480 your body will freeze up with fear and the skin walker will use that fear to gain power 256 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:42,480 and energy. 257 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,760 That's something that you see with a lot of paranormal things that they thrive on fear, 258 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,680 which is definitely a huge component to the skin walker. 259 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:57,240 To say skin walker out loud will attract them to you as if you've been marked. 260 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,160 Say their name aloud is to invite them to yourself. 261 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,200 So basically I'm feeling a little nervous. 262 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,240 However, I feel that only applies in Navajo territory. 263 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:11,400 I feel like I'm far enough away from Arizona and New Mexico that they didn't hear me just 264 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,400 say that. 265 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,840 Unless they're in some animal form that can hear me from there. 266 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,400 Some say that skin walkers can have the power to read humans thoughts. 267 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,800 They also possess the ability to make any human or animal noise they choose regardless 268 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,360 of their current form. 269 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:33,000 A skin walker may use the voice of a relative or the cry of an infant to lure victims out 270 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,880 of the safety of their homes since a skin walker cannot enter an inhabited home without 271 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,360 invitation similar to vampires. 272 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:45,440 A skin walker can be heard calling your name in the same kind of fashion where you hear 273 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,080 your mom call you from outside. 274 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,160 It will call your name from the trees from outside your house just to get you outside 275 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,160 of safety. 276 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,680 A skin walker will also use a dog whistle or bone whistle to stop dogs from barking so 277 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,120 they can sneak up close to your home and use powders and perform ceremonies to put your 278 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,400 dogs and protectors to sleep. 279 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,720 It is also said that if you're driving at night through a Navajo reservation they will 280 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,640 run along your car and knock on your window. 281 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,840 If you look at them or acknowledge them they will curse and or kill you and they gain power 282 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,840 from killing obviously because it's evil. 283 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:23,840 And or kill you. 284 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:24,840 And or. 285 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,320 So they might curse you and then kill you. 286 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,920 I mean it seems like a waste. 287 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:28,920 That's just me. 288 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760 Yeah it seems like a waste to kill you at that point. 289 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:38,000 But I mean maybe they're cursing your soul and then you take that with you after you're 290 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,320 dead which is way more worse. 291 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,320 Yeah. 292 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,120 Let's sit with that for a moment. 293 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,600 Skin walkers use spells and charms to instill fear and control their victims. 294 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,000 Fear is the best weapon they have. 295 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,480 Skin walkers use natural based elements as weapons. 296 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:00,640 They're grave robbers. 297 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,480 They dig up bodies and use the bones as knives, arts, whistles. 298 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,960 They grind up bones to make a powder which they would use to paralyze you and blow the 299 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,280 powder into your face to curse and kill you. 300 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,720 They'll use decaying flesh as a poison to inflict sickness. 301 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,400 Skin walkers have been known to find traces of their victims' hair. 302 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,000 Wrap it around a pot shard and place it into a tarantula hole. 303 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,600 I'm not sure what that does but they do do that. 304 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,600 That sounds bad. 305 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,320 Yeah it does sound really bad. 306 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:39,560 A skin walker can use anything of personal belonging and use it in ceremonial rituals 307 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,680 against the person they're doing evil against. 308 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,440 Even live rattlesnakes are known to be used as charms by the skin walker. 309 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,880 And kind of like I was saying earlier they're super fast so there are reports of people 310 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,440 driving 100 plus kilometers an hour in the middle of the night and skin walkers have 311 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,200 been spotted running with the vehicle. 312 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,960 Not to be confused with the skin walker, some medicine men are said to be in tune with the 313 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,680 flow of nature so that they would often take the form of a sacred totem animal. 314 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,240 Totem animals are kind, gentle animals that have grown on humans so much that they acquire 315 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,880 a sacredness and are honored with dances, music, and artwork. 316 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,720 Medicine men practice healing, blessings, and the removal of curses whereas a skin walker 317 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,880 seeks to harm humans, lay curses, and practice evil whenever possible. 318 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,160 So huge difference between the two. 319 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,080 Distinct difference between medicine men and community healers? 320 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,580 They're positive. 321 00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:45,360 Witches are seen as evil performing harmful ceremonies and manipulative magic in a perversion 322 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,120 of the good works medicine people traditionally perform. 323 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:54,320 In order to practice their good works, traditional healers may learn about both good and evil 324 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,680 magic in order to protect a game's evil, but people who choose to become witches are 325 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,360 seen as corrupt. 326 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,080 Well, sightings you ask? 327 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,160 Of course. 328 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,720 I was able to find a few. 329 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,920 However, in putting this together I did notice a few things. 330 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,080 In my long search this took me a while. 331 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,080 Number 1 – Indigenous people will usually not comment on this. 332 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:24,320 Number 2 – I found a lot of encounters that were not skin walkers, according to what I 333 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,560 just told you. 334 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,760 And we're probably more leaning towards a crawler. 335 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:39,040 Crawlers being mimics who are lanky in all fours and up on hind legs, super creepy kinda 336 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,040 things. 337 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,320 Yeah, it may see it as white people, like sorry, and I shouldn't say white people, 338 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,640 very, very albino colored. 339 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:53,200 So they're totally different things and that just goes to show that a lot of people don't 340 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,040 understand what a skin walker is. 341 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,760 Others would be a Wendigo. 342 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,120 People spot Wendigos and think that it's a skin walker. 343 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,200 That being the body of a man and the head of a… 344 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,280 A Wendigo is a person who has succumbed to anabolism. 345 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Yeah, I think it's kind of similar, but it has antlers or the head of a moose or something. 346 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,080 It depends on which native culture you're going with because they all kind of have their 347 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,080 own Wendigo. 348 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,120 Okay, we'll have to cover Wendigo in the future. 349 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:24,120 And so on. 350 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,160 So remember skin walkers disguise as animals. 351 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:34,000 And usually you can't tell the difference except that it's acting a little bit weird. 352 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,320 Like it's up on its hind legs. 353 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,760 That's more than a little bit weird. 354 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,280 I mean, depending on the creature. 355 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:41,280 True. 356 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,720 I mean, the coyote, I'd be a little creeped out if it was just like walking around on 357 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:45,720 two legs. 358 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:46,720 Yeah. 359 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,720 It could be… 360 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,720 But bears do that. 361 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:49,720 They look creepy, but they do this. 362 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,720 And they look like they're humans in costumes. 363 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,720 That's what they're… 364 00:20:53,720 --> 00:21:01,400 Or it's, you know, a coyote that is staring at you in this super creepy way. 365 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,520 They're acting outside of a way that's normal for the animal. 366 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,360 It's almost like it doesn't know how to be that animal, but it's that animal. 367 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:12,640 Skin walkers are similar. 368 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,040 Inhabit the area of the Navajo and other tribes within that tribe. 369 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:25,080 So New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, this is their legend and is specifically an evil witch of 370 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,240 that tribe. 371 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,280 So while sightings elsewhere can fit. 372 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,400 Like I said, it's more likely to be another creature than a skin walker. 373 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,720 You're not really going to have a skin walker encounter outside of that area. 374 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,040 The skin walker is very misunderstood, I find. 375 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,320 After reading all this. 376 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,440 And before this, I misunderstood it as well. 377 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:47,960 It might be sad about that. 378 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,560 Maybe that's its problem. 379 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,680 Yes, the misunderstood creature. 380 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:57,920 So first sighting is from Navajo underscore Joe on Reddit 11 years ago. 381 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:58,920 So you know this is legit. 382 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,040 You really should have just gone with Navajo. 383 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,040 Yeah. 384 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,480 Someone commented that. 385 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,480 Oh, good. 386 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,080 I think it was taken. 387 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,080 Was it me 11 years ago? 388 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,080 You will never know. 389 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,160 Let's listen to the encounter. 390 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,920 Quote, this is Navajo Joe talking now. 391 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,480 I was a kid when this happened. 392 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,360 My uncle and I were finishing up chopping and gathering firewood for my grandmother because 393 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:25,600 it was getting dark. 394 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:31,160 Driving back on a dirt road at about 30 miles per hour, give or take five miles per hour. 395 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:36,360 And that could literally be any amount of kilometers per hour because I have no idea 396 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,680 what that means in my language. 397 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,800 I had this awful sense of being watched. 398 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,120 Before I could turn to look out my window, passenger side window, my uncle quickly shouted, 399 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:49,120 don't. 400 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,360 I completely froze. 401 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:52,960 My heart felt like it was beating out of my chest. 402 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,720 Then completely stopped when I heard tap tap on my window. 403 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,600 My uncle sped up and was loudly praying in my native language. 404 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,480 I didn't know what was going on and I thought it was over until our truck suddenly dipped 405 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,480 from the bed, which is the back of the truck. 406 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,640 My uncle then started saying, look at me and don't turn away over and over. 407 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,200 Then I heard it again. 408 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,480 Tap tap, but from the window behind me. 409 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,440 It was getting harder for me to breathe and I wanted to cry. 410 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,160 A minute or two passed and the truck dipped again. 411 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,880 My uncle looked around inside. 412 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,760 It was quiet besides the truck and the road. 413 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,960 He looked at me and said, we will ask your father to do a prayer in the morning so that 414 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,280 the evil will forget our faces. 415 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,120 That's the Navajo to English equivalent translation. 416 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:42,840 I remember curling up on the seat and just staring at the radio watching the time, listening 417 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,040 to my uncle sing an old prayer till we got to my grandmother's house. 418 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,920 That's the end of that one. 419 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,640 This one, I'm not sure where it came from, but I'll read it. 420 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,160 Grandpa owned a large herd of sheep, which during the summer grazed in the mountains 421 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,480 in central Utah. 422 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,560 In the 1960s, his sheep herder was a small Mexican man. 423 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,160 We'll call him Juan. 424 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,520 Juan stayed in a very small trailer in a meadow while tending the sheep. 425 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,840 One evening, grandpa dredged his truck up the mountain to deliver some food and supplies 426 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,840 to Juan. 427 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,320 As he nears Juan's camp, he starts seeing dead sheep all over the ground. 428 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,160 Many of the sheep were thrashed into pieces as he arrives at Juan's trailer. 429 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,880 He finds the door shut. 430 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,160 He has to kick open the door to get inside as Juan has locked it. 431 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,080 Inside Juan is curled up into a ball mumbling incoherently and likely in shock. 432 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,960 Grandpa picks up Juan, throws him into the truck and takes off down the mountain to get 433 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,600 Juan to a doctor. 434 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,160 As he is flying down the twisty dirt road, Grandpa gets this terrible feeling like he's 435 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,440 being watched and sees something out of the corner of his eye. 436 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,600 By the time the sun is setting and the light isn't very good, he turns to look out the 437 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,440 passenger side window and sees a creature he describes as looking like an inside out 438 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:56,440 deer. 439 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,320 Holy crap that is fucking terrifying. 440 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,760 Running alongside the truck, oh Jesus. 441 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,600 The creature drops back out of sight only to come bounding back even faster, running 442 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,200 on his hind legs only. 443 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,520 The creature then ran across the road right in front of the truck. 444 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,480 Grandpa swaps to miss it and ends up rolling the truck down the mountain side. 445 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,320 Juan is killed in the accident and Grandpa spends more than a month in the hospital. 446 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,440 It's possible that grandpa's playing with us, but that really wasn't his style. 447 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,120 He was an old cowboy and swore that was the truth. 448 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,400 He prodded up when we were making fun of Chupacabras. 449 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,000 He believed that it was some sort of Chupacabra like animal he saw. 450 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,280 Okay and I'm reading this in Skinwalker. 451 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,280 But holy crap that is creepy. 452 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,400 Yeah, also I feel like he would have some sort of proof that he was in the hospital 453 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,680 for a month because he rolled a car and somebody died. 454 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:55,600 I think it's more the story of why he crashed the car. 455 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,720 I feel like if I was to make up the story about why I crashed a car I wouldn't make 456 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,520 up a story to tell my grandkids of like an inside out deer running next to the car. 457 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,120 Full speed on Chupacabras. 458 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,400 That is elaborate. 459 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720 It's not something you just make up out of your imagination. 460 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,200 Get this I was just driving along and then out of nowhere. 461 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:25,360 So next one and what is the tale about skinwalkers without a tale out of the infamous skinwalker 462 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:26,360 ranch? 463 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,600 You knew there had to be some skinwalkers in that book. 464 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,640 One night Terry Sherman who owned the ranch heard a noise outside and he was startled 465 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,520 to see a wolf in his yard. 466 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,800 One much larger than any he had ever seen. 467 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,520 Terry grabbed his gun from inside and shot the wolf several times but his bullets appeared 468 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,880 to do no damage whatsoever. 469 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:52,160 Although the wolf did take off eventually its tracks disappeared entirely as Terry chased 470 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,560 it as if it had simply vanished into thin air. 471 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,640 Another similar encounter Terry and Gwen Sherman were startled by the sight of a fearsome animal 472 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,960 perhaps a wolf or coyote stalking towards their livestock pen. 473 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,400 When it grabbed a calf in its jaws. 474 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,040 Terry fired at it with the handgun and then a rifle. 475 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,720 Despite being hit the creature didn't seem hurt and simply wandered away into the bushes. 476 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,800 It had a foul stench like rotting flesh and it stayed with them. 477 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,000 They can remember the smell really well. 478 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,520 And if memory serves correctly I also believe that one of the first encounters they had 479 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,880 at the ranch when they moved was the wolf that came right up to them and it seemed really 480 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:34,880 tame. 481 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:35,880 It didn't. 482 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:36,880 It seemed tame. 483 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:37,880 It was right off. 484 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:38,880 I believe they petted. 485 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,160 Until it attacked a cow. 486 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:46,000 Yeah and which was way later but I think they petted actually when it came up to them and 487 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,520 they remember it being a huge wolf if memory serves correctly. 488 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,520 I didn't pull that one. 489 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:51,520 Yeah. 490 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,960 Just to give a bit of context to that as well. 491 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,920 That's a very small part of the book. 492 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,080 The entire skinwalker ranch is mostly not skinwalker related. 493 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080 Yes. 494 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,080 Thank you for pointing that out. 495 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,080 It's got a glimmer person. 496 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,080 It got UFOs. 497 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,080 It's got bigfoot. 498 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,080 It's got everything. 499 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,080 It's got a big hunting RV. 500 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,080 Yeah. 501 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,080 Yeah. 502 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,080 It's got like portals. 503 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,080 Portals. 504 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,160 That's when you said that the same thing. 505 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,840 Another story from the book relays an account from a New Mexico Highway Patrol officer 506 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:24,000 and he states that while patrolling the highways of New Mexico he saw a skinwalker on two separate 507 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000 occasions. 508 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,400 In his first encounter a creature wearing a white mask appeared next to his window seemingly 509 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,240 attaching itself to the car door but then he realized it was simply running beside the 510 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,040 vehicle keeping pace at highway speed. Can you imagine having that sighting and being like, 511 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:46,360 oh look at that guy with a mask. Oh shit, I'm driving it like 100 kilometers in the hour. 512 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:55,560 What the fuck? Why is that guy just standing there? No, he's moving. Hey, I'm moving. I'm driving. 513 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,040 I'm driving. I should be attentive. The way that's weird. It's a good thing the cops are pulling me over. 514 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,480 I just picture him with like an iPhone in his hand like scroll. 515 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,720 A few days later and around the same area he encountered the creature again, 516 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,840 what makes this tale even more intriguing is that at least one other officer claimed to have seen 517 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,680 the same ghoulish being while patrolling the area. Of course, like Taylor said, there is much more 518 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,960 than this going on in the ranch and in the book. And just a side note as I was looking into this, 519 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,560 since there's less secrecy now about where Skinwalker Ranch is located, you can google the 520 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:42,920 exact location of Skinwalker Ranch now and literally on the same plot of land, and there's the road 521 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:50,360 in front Skinwalker Ranch, on the opposite side on the road behind is a campground. I wonder if it 522 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,000 was there before all the like stories came out. I don't know, but it also comes up as like one of 523 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,600 the most haunting campgrounds in the United States. Also, yeah, I was pretty sure that we knew the 524 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,280 location of it just because it was for sale not that long ago. Historically, it's in Utah in the 525 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:13,720 U.N.T.A. Basin and it was owned by Robert Bigelow for a long time, but we did an episode on. I believe 526 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,520 he sold it probably three or four years ago and I think there's still a group that's doing research 527 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:25,080 that owns it, but it's not Robert Bigelow. Yeah, and when the book was out anyway, they didn't want to 528 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:30,520 disclose the location of where it was. So maybe it was around the time they put it up for sale that 529 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,720 they figured it out, but yeah, not a secret anymore. So if you want an experience, go to the 530 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:42,520 campground. I'm not going, especially after talking about this because I'm marked now. Oh no, yeah, 531 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:49,960 they know you said those words. Yeah, I can never go to Utah again. This one's from Rudditor 532 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:56,600 Neptune 420. My father owns a small delivery service that operates out of Farmington, New Mexico. 533 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,560 He mostly delivers small packages out to the middle of nowhere that are too much of a hassle for 534 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,600 the larger delivery companies to bother with. My dad is the only employee and we have a few 535 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,840 pickup trucks in a trailer. One day we get a delivery out to Window Rock, Arizona on the Navajo 536 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,200 reservation about two hours from Farmington. My dad gets the call for the job while he's chilling 537 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:24,360 with his Navajo friend Travis and his girlfriend. Travis mentions how he's got family in Window Rock 538 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,720 that he hasn't seen in ages and suggests they go with him. I was about six or seven at the time 539 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,520 and it was summertime so dad decides we'll all go down together. He can do his delivery really 540 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,400 quick then while Travis sees his family we can go check out the Window Rock which is a rock, 541 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:46,040 famous rock. Looks like a window or can you see through it? Uh yes, big rock face with a large 542 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:51,000 hole in it that goes to the other side. Pretty cool. Okay. Yeah, so it's exactly as it sounds. 543 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,880 We had to convoy and separate trucks since my dad's was loaded down with freight. We decided to 544 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,400 bring along some walkie talkie, she calls them talkie talkies, so we could communicate with one 545 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,280 another. We spend our time in Window Rock. Everything is generally uneventful and we start 546 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,920 heading home to the old highway with my dad and I in front and Travis and his girlfriend in their 547 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,960 truck behind us. I honestly don't remember most of the Window Rock trip but this part I can never 548 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,760 forget. We're somewhere on the highway between Window Rock and Gallup, New Mexico. It had just 549 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,320 rained earlier in the day and the road was kind of slick so we were taking it pretty slow. On the 550 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,440 left of the highway there is nothing but sandstone cliffs and to the right there's a huge field 551 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,720 separated from the road by a small barbed wire fence. We crest the top of this hill and down at 552 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,920 the bottom of the hill we see what appears to be a very large dog sitting back on his haunches 553 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,520 in the middle of the road facing the cliffs. My dad calls over the radio, hey Trav, do you see that 554 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:52,280 big-ass dog? Travis starts yelling back over the radio, that is not a dog. Speed up right now and 555 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,880 hit it. He sounds almost hysterical. It just screams, hit it. You have to hit it. Please, 556 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:03,800 please hit that fucking thing right now. This is not on the road right? I thought it was in the 557 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,280 center of the road. Oh it was in the middle of the road. Okay I was just reading. I wasn't actually 558 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,560 you know processing what I was reading. So my dad starts to speed up and as we get a bit, would you 559 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,680 question that? But someone's like just hit the dog. Hit the dog. I'd be like are you in the dog? 560 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,200 Don't worry buddy you need to. Yeah. Like you hit the dog. He passed me. 561 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:32,520 I'm not gonna hit the dog. Okay so my dad starts to speed up and so he's just taking his word for it. 562 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,640 So he speeds up and as they get a bit closer I can begin to see it a little more clearly. It's 563 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,400 covered in this brown, wiry matted hair that appears to have dried blood all over it. It's 564 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,920 still facing the cliffs but the moment our headlights hit it it turns and looks at us and it had a 565 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:57,640 face. Oh my god. I don't know how else to describe it. I'm assuming it's human face. Because everything 566 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,960 does have a face. Well not everything but yeah. But most living things have face. I don't know how 567 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,000 else to describe it other than a mix between a bear's and a human's face. There we go. We got 568 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,440 answers. We just had to be patient. It looks twisted and distorted and almost in pain. As we get 569 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,720 closer to this thing we start to realize it's actually fucking huge. Well they said big ass dog. 570 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:24,600 I assume that means huge. Though it was still sitting on its haunches it is about shoulder 571 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,200 height with the hood of the truck. We get literally inches from hitting it when it lets out a scream 572 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,680 that sounds like someone's screaming as their lungs were filling up with water and it leaps 573 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,520 backwards towards the field landing just on our side of the barbed wire fence. Then with another 574 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,800 leap it was gone from sight. Travis comes over the radio again. Holy shit keep driving. We have 575 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,440 to get out of here. We have to go faster. He kept repeating that last part. We have to get out of 576 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,320 here. We have to go faster. Pretty soon we are speeding like crazy and just as we start to come 577 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,840 near the outskirts of Gallop we get pulled over. Travis pulls his truck over with us. Naturally this 578 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,280 makes a cop and Navajo man himself very on edge and immediately asks why Travis felt the need to 579 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,560 pull over as well. Travis says we just saw a skin walker a few miles back and it's been following 580 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:17,320 us. The officer immediately turns white, stammers something about verbal warnings, gets in his 581 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,800 car and takes off. We do the same. We didn't see anything else that night but when we got home 582 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,520 Travis refused to let us leave without taking some kind of Navajo totem thing that was supposed to 583 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,720 keep it away. That's another thing. I didn't put it in here but that's another thing that once it 584 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:37,560 kind of sees you. It's got a mind for faces right? Where it's kind of like you know those people who 585 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,760 they'll remember meeting you they don't know your name. Yeah they've just got yeah those people. 586 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:49,240 Those people are skin walkers. Searching for your face. This one is from I love Reddit names 587 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:55,560 Redditor iron underscore Jesus. Anybody that has been on the Navajo reservation has either 588 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,840 probably heard of some creepy things or has experienced pretty creepy things namely skin 589 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,680 walkers. I've only seen one. Here's my story. I come from a small town in northern Arizona 590 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:12,520 that's sandwiched between the Payute reservation to the north and the US's largest Navajo reservation 591 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:18,360 to the south. My high school being so small a 1a high school that has on average 80 students 592 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,320 enrolled every year always had to travel south about five to ten hours one way to play another 593 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:29,320 high school in any sport. I mean why would they do that? That's a lot of travel. This means that 594 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:35,880 we traveled a lot on the Navajo res and we usually stayed at hotels when we would head out to play 595 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,120 and come home in the morning but this trip was a little bit different. I remember the basketball 596 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,680 coach saying that the school didn't have enough money to put up the teams in a hotel that trip 597 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,960 so we were going to be on the road for a total of about 12 hours. I was the only male senior to 598 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:56,280 play basketball that season. Why is he traveling then? Like that's a- You see only basketball player. 599 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,880 And he's traveling to play other teams. We had just got done playing our game and headed home on 600 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,640 our bus. This doesn't even make sense. Big blue which is their bus. We were headed out and it wasn't 601 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,680 long about two hours of driving before we had entered the res. By this time everyone was asleep 602 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,240 with it being about two in the morning. When we had crossed the res's border I noticed the bus 603 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:22,520 driver had sped up and was now going about 85 miles per hour. I thought this was a little weird 604 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,480 because he never exceeded the speed limit at least not in my high school career. For some reason I 605 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,280 couldn't fall asleep like the rest of my teammates and I just sat at the back of the bus staring 606 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,720 across the desolate desert landscape that was lit up by a full moon. That's never good. As I looked 607 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:42,920 out I could see a figure running towards the bus at an angle of pursuit and keeping up with the bus 608 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,680 at 85 miles per hour. As the figure got closer I saw that it was a humanoid form. As a matter of 609 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,040 fact it looked exactly like a human only the face was painted half black and half white with glowing 610 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:59,000 eyes. Glowing eyes like a rabbit's eyes reflecting light from a spotlight. I immediately thought 611 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,360 holy crap it's a skinwalker. The skinwalker ran up to the edge of the road and just kept up pace with 612 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,880 the bus curdling stage brush and rocks while staring at me. After I made eye contact with the 613 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:15,480 thing I could not look away. It was as if something was holding my head and eyes in place. The skin 614 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:21,080 walker just smiled at me this inhumane smile that went ear to ear showing crooked yellow pointed 615 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:26,040 teeth. I felt like I was going to throw up and I was panicking through the whole ordeal. The skin 616 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,160 walker started to crumple down onto all fours still keeping up with the bus. I could see his 617 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,600 bones crack and reform. Hair started appearing all over the skin walker's body and in about three 618 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,600 seconds was now a coyote and it ran off back into the desert out of view. As soon as it was gone I 619 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:48,280 ran to the onboard bathroom and puke a mixture of food and blood. That's a nice detail. I didn't 620 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:54,200 want to tell anyone for fear they would think I was crazy. I confided in my Navajo friend. She told 621 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,000 me that I needed to see the chief who also happened to be a friend of mine and get a blessing. I saw 622 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,560 him the next school day in the parking lot. He just came out to me and mumbled something in Navajo 623 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,000 and waving a feather scepter like thing. Turned around gotten a stretch interval way. To this day 624 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,120 I haven't seen another skinwalker. I told you he got scammed. It might be due to the fact I moved 625 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:20,760 away from the town and the res and if I do have to go around I go way around. I just I want to make 626 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:26,760 sure that I understand the story. So it's the middle of the night and this guy comes running up 627 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:33,160 85 miles an hour. Looks in the window smiles turns into a coyote and runs away. Yeah. Like just 628 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,880 poking it and then looks at that guy and smiles. Yeah. No you got it and he was the basketball 629 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:46,440 team so I assume he was the only one on the bus. After I'm what I'm assuming was a huge loss 630 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:54,520 to another basketball team. I basically just skim these stories to make sure they fit because I 631 00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,360 also like to be involved in hearing it for the first time. Yes I'm fair that the reader doesn't 632 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:08,280 get that experience. I skim. I skim okay. I make sure that it fits and this one fit. 633 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:14,680 Basically as far as swimming goes. I'm really worried that the chief isn't taking his role 634 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,400 seriously though like it seems like that kid got scammed. Oh yeah. Like school parking lots 635 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,480 together and glad. I've never heard of a feather scepter I can only imagine what that is like. 636 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:30,440 Okay this one's from Redditor and doolos. I was told this story once. My dad isn't a 637 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,960 bullshitter or a liar so I know this story is true. I'm going to assume it's his dad's story 638 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:41,560 and he's not just telling us that his dad is not a bullshitter. Here's history continues. It was 639 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:47,800 the very early 80s and my sister who lived in Toronto came down to visit our parents for a weekend. 640 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,760 She was staying in a friend's house who loaned her car so she could come out. After her visit she 641 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,960 left a little after 9 p.m. She got maybe seven to eight miles away when the car broke down. 642 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,920 Thankfully she broke down in front of a friend of the family's house. They let her in to call dad 643 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,480 and dad came to get her. The family said she could leave the car in the driveway for the night and 644 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,680 my sister decided to just stay in my parents for the night. It was now a little after 10 p.m. in 645 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,800 pitch black in late November. While my sister and dad are driving back to the house and they pass 646 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:24,600 through a heavily wooded area. Out of nowhere they hear an incredibly fucking loud inhumane scream. 647 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,320 I was heard over the engine them talking and the radio. Dad slammed on the brakes and they both started 648 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:37,400 freaking out when suddenly a six foot tall coyote walking on two legs with a black and white striped 649 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:43,000 tail appeared on the side of the road and proceeded to walk in front of the car. As soon as it passed 650 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:49,960 that same scream played again only this time 10 times louder. Dad slammed on the accelerator and 651 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:57,240 they got the fuck out of there. It was never seen again. That's the end of the story. And to end 652 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:02,920 with I particularly liked to comment of a redditor on one of the sightings that didn't make it to 653 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:09,640 my list mostly because I don't believe it fit as a skinwalker. Ruthard Dare commented quote best advice 654 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:16,280 from an indigenous person don't yell at them next time. Obviously this person was yelling something 655 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:23,480 at this creature that had spotted. Stay quiet stay still and if you hear your name no you didn't. 656 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:29,720 If you hear someone calling for help no you didn't. Oh and don't whistle at night. He continues on 657 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:35,320 about the whistling. I was told they will whistle back and whistling lets them know exactly where 658 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:41,080 you are and which way you're going. And end quote by them and I think that's just generally good 659 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:47,480 information to have when dealing with any cryptid. In just life don't help people. Yeah don't whistle 660 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:54,280 definitely don't fucking whistle. Don't whistle don't help. Somebody says your name they didn't. No just keep walking. 661 00:42:54,280 --> 00:43:02,600 This is good life advice. Yeah great life advice so that's it that's the skinwalker the Yinald Dushi 662 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:09,400 any comments. I'm just curious Chelsea if they were to open a zoo in Navajo territory could the 663 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:18,280 skinwalker take those animals. I guess theoretically they could because so long as they're there but 664 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:26,600 you also see it attributed to non-todam like non-secret animals. Like they wouldn't be natural to the environment too yeah. 665 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:33,480 It seems like they take their power from things that are within the environment so yeah I mean 666 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:42,280 theoretically they could definitely in one that I did listen to he was Navajo. His name is Shantzian 667 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:48,840 Shadow Productions on YouTube. He talked about skinwalkers he's Navajo. He said theoretically 668 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:56,520 they could shape-shift into something else like I said earlier if they say went and were able to 669 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:03,080 acclimatize to different landscape and gain power from that particular landscape so I'm thinking yes 670 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:08,840 technically they could. Okay would they want to I don't know. Yeah they seem too traditional yeah. 671 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,520 Okay and my second question which is a little more realistic but likely has an equally vague 672 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:21,640 answer so like borders are arbitrary we've put them there just for reasons that aren't cultural in 673 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,840 nature for the people to particularly inhabit the region before we got there. Yeah so are there 674 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:32,840 stories south of the border into Mexico because that would also I believe that Navajo would go into 675 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:39,080 Mexico. I don't believe they do. Okay but they would culturally be close to whatever would be 676 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,600 below them too because like we said like the Apache and whatnot and the Hopi have similar 677 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,960 stories. Yeah but I know I understand it also very hard to know much about it that's the Chihuahua 678 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:57,640 regions right below New Mexico so. I mean every indigenous as far as I understand is gonna have 679 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:03,560 their own sort of creature. I believe the Wendigo is more of a Canadian. Yes because it has to do 680 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,920 more with starvation and winter. Yes. Like that's the big thing about the Wendigo. I don't know 681 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:15,080 where the line draws because obviously those indigenous don't have the same legend of the 682 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:22,920 skin walker so obviously there is some sort of separation and the Navajo likewise don't have 683 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:28,440 the Wendigo type creature. They have this though it's not like an equivalent. I wouldn't call it 684 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:35,800 an equivalent. It does extend a little bit more so the Pueblo people Apache Hopi and Ute. I don't 685 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:44,040 know enough about where their lands. Well yeah but it seems to go all from Utah at least. Yeah. 686 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,920 All the way down to New Mexico and Arizona. Yeah. I don't think it just stopped at that border 687 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,000 is what I'm trying to get at so I would be curious to see kind of what their interpretation is and 688 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:59,400 on the Mexican side. I don't know and like I said it's like the Wendigo so I'm sure there are other 689 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,200 types of legends that go along. Every culture has their own kind of things that go along with 690 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:11,000 legends right so where that border lies no idea. I'm assuming it wouldn't be a land border it would 691 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,720 be more of a cultural border. Yeah we wouldn't find the line on the map. Yeah. I think that's what you 692 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:24,040 mean. Well we could maybe but as far as where their willingness is in here. Yeah. And even so they can 693 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,800 leave from there but it does draw power from the land so you would think there might be some sort 694 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,280 of physical border as well. Yeah. Yeah. That was a much. It's an interesting thing to think about I 695 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:40,440 think. No that I didn't make sense of it. No answer. It was philosophical in nature for it was inside 696 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:47,000 our hearts. Yes. Yeah. And with our hearts speaking like that I think that's a good place to end it 697 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,120 Chelsea that was a fun episode. Is there anything you wanted to end with. No. Okay well I have been 698 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,120 Taylor here with Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank you all for listening and we'll see 699 00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:03,720 you next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. If you have liked what you 700 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:10,760 have listened to please like share subscribe or follow depending on what venue you are listening 701 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:16,920 to us through. Also please if possible leave a five star review as that really helps us in the 702 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,840 algorithms. Should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your social media of choice. 703 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,960 I bet you we are there and if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new 704 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:33,720 episodes or tell us that we're wrong and terrible either way please send us an email at Journey to 705 00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:59,320 the Fringe at gmail.com for now I'll see you in the next episode.