1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,320 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:17,200 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, reminding you, if multiverse theory is correct, 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,000 there is a universe where Bill Moore became famous instead of Bill Nye, the science guy. 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,420 And that universe received Bill Moore the science bore. 5 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:28,120 And there's also another universe where they went with the even spicier rhyme. 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,680 We are your friendly reminding host, Taylor and Chelsea, today finishing off our Bill 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,680 Moore saga. 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:34,920 I at least hope. 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,240 I know it's interesting, but I don't want to talk about Bill Moore anymore. 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,720 He's just not a good person. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,760 And no matter how hard I try, I'm just going to forget about him once we're done here. 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,760 I know, right? 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,040 Thank you for that lovely intro. 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,040 You're welcome. 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,920 The multiverses are just a never-ending gift that keep on giving. 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:56,920 Here we are. 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,560 The fourth, is it fourth? 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,400 The fourth episode, somehow. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,080 The final round at Bill Moore. 20 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,080 Unless you want another one. 21 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,080 I was kidding. 22 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,080 I'd never do that. 23 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,720 I'm already forgetting who Bill Moore is. 24 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,320 So before I forget completely, let's finish this episode and let's see what shenanigans 25 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,720 old Bill gets up to on this episode. 26 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,000 Pretty good for a guy who fades into the background for episodes. 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,040 At first, to recap, of course, I always have to recap. 28 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,480 So far we have covered the books that Moore had taken part in, which contributed to the 29 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,000 prominent ideas surrounding UFOs. 30 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,440 It's really amazing. 31 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,880 All of these ideas that came out at this time that kind of shaped how we look at everything 32 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:35,880 today. 33 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,840 It's kind of crazy to think of it that way. 34 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,040 We're still holding on to it. 35 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,880 It's not just Reaganomics that's reshaped our world. 36 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Yeah. 37 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,240 It's also this guy whose name we can't remember, with Richard Dodie and others. 38 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,400 We've also taken a look at the disinformation surrounding the role Moore played in the Paul 39 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,520 Bennewit saga, as well, we've taken a look at MJ12, which we finished up with on the 40 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:59,520 last episode. 41 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,200 But that episode kind of partially takes part in the past and in the future of this episode. 42 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,520 So pretend like for this episode, you know about MJ12, but like we don't know what Bill 43 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,000 Moore is up to yet. 44 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,920 We think Bill Moore is like this totally legit dude who wrote those books that we really 45 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:16,920 like. 46 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:21,240 And he sits on the board at ARPO and he wrote the Roswell book. 47 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,840 And the other one that I always forget what it's called, Philadelphia experiment. 48 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:31,400 And Bennewit isn't even really on the radar yet, but I had to put it in the story for 49 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:37,320 you because we're going through all his life in this artistic podcast. 50 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,760 So now we're taking it back to like just a UFO enthusiast perspective on this episode. 51 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,840 So basically just be happy about UFOs and the hard work Bill Moore is doing for UFOs 52 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,840 right now. 53 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:49,840 I think we got it. 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:50,840 I think we're set up. 55 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,560 Are you sure you could use the word hard work? 56 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,600 He's doing stuff. 57 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,640 The half ass nature. 58 00:02:57,640 --> 00:02:58,640 He's existing. 59 00:02:58,640 --> 00:02:59,640 Yeah, he's existing. 60 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,520 As Bill Moore. 61 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,760 Bill Moore is like this fucking good researcher. 62 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,640 MJ12 has been swirling around. 63 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:14,160 We know the story seems cool that these government documents have been leaked. 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,520 We're like, wow, maybe this could be really something. 65 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,680 But there's some controversy starting to swirl around with these documents that they 66 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,320 might be fake. 67 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,200 And some people are trying to debunk them at this time. 68 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:32,880 And some people are even beginning to talk about more and his involvement with the MJ12 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:39,440 documents to which Bill Moore immediately strikes back in the Mufon UFO Journal January 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:40,640 1989. 71 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,320 I was going to cut this up, but it's too good. 72 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,120 And it's not actually that long. 73 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,640 So I present to you without comment, at least before I read it. 74 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,960 MJ12 an open letter. 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:53,960 This is Bill Moore. 76 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,880 This is the article to be clear. 77 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,840 I had hoped that it would never be necessary for me to write a letter like this. 78 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,800 However, in light of numerous allegations, rumors and accusations presently being circulated 79 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:13,000 about me in my work, an indirect response to a vicious guilt by innuendo article on 80 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:19,320 the MJ12 matter, which I am reliably informed is currently being prepared by CISAP, I don't 81 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:20,320 know, CSICOP. 82 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,000 That's how I pronounce it. 83 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,880 Spokesman Kendrick Frazier, in close concert with Phil Klass, it seems appropriate to make 84 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,560 some sort of statement, which will clear the air. 85 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,680 This is me talking now. 86 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,720 This is not the article. 87 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,400 I love this for him. 88 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,600 He's not even waiting to see what this article says about him. 89 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:48,920 He's putting it out before the article comes out. 90 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,680 This is more understanding of himself than I thought he had. 91 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Somebody's writing about me? 92 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,680 Oh shit, it's probably bad. 93 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:56,680 I know. 94 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,200 Okay, he goes on. 95 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:07,360 First of all, let me begin by stating for the record that I am not a forger, a hoaxer, 96 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,360 a fabricator, or a counterfeiter, nor to the best of my knowledge have I ever participated 97 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:19,840 in any illegal or un-American activity in connection with my more than eight year involvement 98 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,360 with the MJ12 controversy. 99 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,360 This has been going on a while. 100 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge and belief, none of my colleagues and associates 101 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:33,360 have participated in any such activities either. 102 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,360 Bullshit. 103 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,160 So nobody he worked with as Forged Dog. 104 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,160 No, never. 105 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,160 Never, never. 106 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,040 They're too ethical. 107 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,480 Rumors circulating to the effect that I am some sort of government agent or disinformation 108 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,360 expert are totally false. 109 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:01,080 In spite of pronouncements made principally by John Lear and other associates with him, 110 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,720 I am not on the US governments or any other governments. 111 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,080 Love how he points that out. 112 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,080 Payroll. 113 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,560 Whether the MJ12 and associated documents are authentic and indeed whether the entire 114 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,240 MJ12 story has any truth to it all remains an entirely open question. 115 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,560 I and my colleagues have conducted our investigation into this matter in our own way and essentially 116 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,960 outside of the UFO community at large. 117 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:30,000 The information which we have made available concerning this process has been entirely 118 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,760 in keeping with our own methods and objectives. 119 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,840 What has been withheld has been withheld for good reason. 120 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,840 It is no secret that many of you who read this letter have voiced strong objections 121 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,560 to the way things have gone. 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,920 Some having raised valid questions which remain unanswered have wrongly assumed that there 123 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,560 are no answers and have seen fit to vent their frustrations by pointing an accusing finger. 124 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,320 Others perhaps seeing the controversy surrounding MJ12 as some sort of threatened their own 125 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:03,120 stature as self-styled UFO experts or skeptics have chosen the convenience of dismissing 126 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,840 the entire matter out of hand rather than prudence of withholding judgment until all 127 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:08,960 the facts are in. 128 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:14,320 To individuals in both of these rushed to judgment groups, my advice is simply be calm 129 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:15,440 and be patient. 130 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,800 We have every intention of getting to the bottom of this matter and we have every intention 131 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,840 of making a full and complete disclosure once this process is complete. 132 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,760 Until that time, I and my colleagues are going to continue to follow our own counsel and 133 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,760 do things on our own way, preferably with the support of the UFO community, but if necessary 134 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,760 without it. 135 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,400 I mean it's been eight years already Bill. 136 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:38,600 It's a long process. 137 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:44,560 I personally love, yeah we definitely cover things, not in a timely manner. 138 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,200 There's not a lot of in fact recent events that we've covered on this podcast, but it 139 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,960 makes for some great comments where they're like don't worry stuff will come out in the 140 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:53,960 near future. 141 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,600 Yeah and then it doesn't. 142 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,400 And then we're 34 years in the future. 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,000 Yeah, no kidding. 144 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,000 He goes on. 145 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,640 Once the entire story comes out is our firm conviction that all of the dark spots in this 146 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:11,560 very strange picture puzzle will become clear and we will all have answers to many of the 147 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,960 questions which now exist about the true nature of our government's involvement with the UFO 148 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:16,960 phenomenon. 149 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,320 I mean we are kind of now, I mean not really they're just saying yeah about UFOs and this 150 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,200 isn't even due to Bill Moore. 151 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:28,000 We seem to be going through the same cyclical process that happens every 20 years or so. 152 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:29,000 It's true. 153 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,400 Meanwhile it seems completely inappropriate at this time for members of the UFO community 154 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,160 and skeptics alike to continue to assail my methods or to cast Asperhenchins. 155 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,160 I feel like it's apprehension. 156 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,160 Apprehensions. 157 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:43,160 But yeah he's still to roll. 158 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:44,160 He definitely wrote Asperishions. 159 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,160 Asper-shins. 160 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,160 Asper-shins. 161 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,160 I don't know. 162 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Oh, okay. 163 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,840 In order to be more of an integrity and honesty through grapevine, gossip and typically half-baked 164 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:58,860 poorly researched journalism of the skeptical inquirer, equally inappropriate is the continuing 165 00:08:58,860 --> 00:09:03,960 high level of sheer speculation concerning the true identities of the two sources who 166 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,380 appeared on the UFO Cover Up Live show under the codenames Falcon and Condor. 167 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:14,360 In the eight weeks since the airing of the show, the controversy has grown to such outrageous 168 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:20,280 proportions that to date Falcon has been reliably identified as no less than three different 169 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,320 people and Condor as five. 170 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:27,640 For obvious reasons, my position continues to be one of no comment with respect to who 171 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,040 any of my sources might be. 172 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,040 Let's just take a pause. 173 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:35,000 UFO Cover Up Live was like a movie thingy which was a live special focusing on the government's 174 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,200 handling of information regarding UFOs. 175 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,560 The special pays particular attention to whether there has been any suppression of 176 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:48,160 evidence supporting the existence of UFOs, included our interviews with Washington officials, 177 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,440 supposedly eyewitnesses and a look at the government documents, photographs and film 178 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:54,440 clips. 179 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,920 These two people appeared on here, Falcon and Condor, and I believe their voice were 180 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,280 masked and they appeared anonymous. 181 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,480 Bill Moore talks about this a lot because obviously they know that they were in contact 182 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,480 with Bill Moore. 183 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,000 This is the first time I heard Condor come up because I know he talked to Falcon but 184 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,800 he also, Doty was sparrow. 185 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,440 I don't remember the term Condor. 186 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,680 I don't really know. 187 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:19,240 Falcon is Richard Doty. 188 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,280 I don't know what the frick is going on with this and Bill Moore is the one that gave these 189 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:29,280 people their names so I don't even know but I just had to address that. 190 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:34,720 I don't even know why Bill Moore keeps talking about this so much. 191 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,280 He addresses it again later I think. 192 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,680 Yeah, you almost feel like it would have served him better to ask pretty much everybody these 193 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,840 days does with their controversial views. 194 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:49,200 Just ignore people or just label it mainstream media and continue on with what she wants. 195 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,800 Yeah, and I didn't watch the UFO special. 196 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,040 I probably should have because it comes up a couple of times but I just didn't have 197 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,040 the time. 198 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,600 I wonder if they don't say something about Bill Moore or something like that but this 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,240 is all speculation so here I am talking about that. 200 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,400 Let's get on with the article, shall we? 201 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:12,040 Deep, the identity of any or all of the 10 inside contacts I and my colleagues have developed 202 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,960 is ultimately a far less importance than the fact that to date four of them have agreed 203 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,600 to tell their story before members of Congress. 204 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,680 As of this writing, commitments are currently being sought from the others and negotiations 205 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,640 are underway with two members of Congress who have expressed interest in the matter. 206 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,600 If we are successful in these efforts then the entire matter of the credibility of sources 207 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,080 and the authenticity of documents will have been placed in a form entirely out of our 208 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:46,360 hands and the questions of Bill Moore's or Jamie Chanderra's or Stan Friedman's motives, 209 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,280 methods and credibility will no longer be an issue. 210 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,520 It is towards such an end that we actively seek the unity and support of the entire UFO 211 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:55,520 community. 212 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:01,280 At the Washington DC Mufon UFO Supposium of June of 1987 when we first brought the essence 213 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,680 of this matter to the attention of the UFO community and the public, I asked for assistance 214 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,000 and support from anyone interested in helping us get to the bottom of it. 215 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,600 Some of you joined that effort, most did not. 216 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:18,840 Many of you remained properly skeptical and in so doing put the lie to oft repeated charges 217 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:25,480 of a few hardline UFO bashers that most ufologists are much too gullible or credulous for their 218 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,640 own good. 219 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,320 Others who disagreed with our way of doing things and apparently saw us as some sort of 220 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,080 threat to the well-being of ufology in general and themselves in particular saw it fit to 221 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,320 throw as many rocks in our direction as they possibly could. 222 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,440 It is now time to put those emotions aside and pull together in an effort to bring this 223 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,000 matter to a conclusion. 224 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:51,360 As Jerry Clark noted in an international UFO reporter editorial over a year ago, the MJ-12 225 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:57,160 affair, unlike most other aspects of ufology, is one where it is possible to obtain answers, 226 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,160 one way or the other. 227 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,800 If this information is real and the sources providing it are bona fide, then we have a 228 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,800 major story on our hands. 229 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,680 If, on the other hand, it turns out to be some sort of eight year long, elaborate disinformation 230 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:16,560 scheme or even an outright hoax, then we have an equally important story of another type. 231 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:21,880 In either case, the truth will ultimately be made known and once that happens, ufology 232 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,040 will go on. 233 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,920 Petty, bickering, and emotional tirades have no place in this search for the truth and 234 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:33,040 they are unbecoming to a field of study which is well on its way to becoming a recognized 235 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,800 area of scientific and journalistic endeavor. 236 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,200 We have every intention of seeing our work through to its conclusion, what your role 237 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,000 will be in the process is entirely up to you. 238 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:49,080 This letter then is intended as an olive branch from me and my associates to you, ufologists, 239 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,720 skeptic, and ufo basher alike. 240 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,640 Our goal like yours is to ultimately get to the bottom of this very important matter, 241 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,680 it is our belief that progress towards this end will be better served by a united effort 242 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:03,680 than by continued animosity. 243 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,080 If you agree, please let me hear from you in the near future. 244 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,640 End of article, ended with an editor's note, the fund for ufo research launched a successful 245 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:19,600 drive to raise $16,000 for further research into the MJ12 controversy under a contract 246 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,440 with Stan T. Freedman. 247 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,600 That's the end of that. 248 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,840 What do we think of that? 249 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,720 I just like how time answers a lot of the questions. 250 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,600 This would have been gripping in the late 80s, early 90s to see like not really know 251 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,840 what's gonna come from it. 252 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,800 Yeah, so I know we're supposed to pretend like we don't know what's gonna happen with 253 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,360 the MJ12 documents and Bill Moore. 254 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,360 I mean, you shouldn't really know what happens with Bill Moore unless for personal reasons 255 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,360 you already know. 256 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:48,360 That's fine. 257 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,520 I would hope you wouldn't skip towards the end of this episode. 258 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,520 Yes, in which case, hello Bill Moore. 259 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,120 It's very nice to have you with the whole story. 260 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,600 The only person who can remember who you are. 261 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,040 But we see the same things as we did with Paul Benowitz. 262 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,360 Now the Paul Benowitz stuff technically comes after this, but like I said at the beginning 263 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,560 for like storytelling purposes and I went in the actual timeline of things, it comes 264 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,640 after, but we see the same kind of thing. 265 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:22,320 He's gaslighting the shit out of people who are seeing things from a different perspective 266 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:23,960 than what he is doing. 267 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:30,320 He's like, well, I'm doing this, but I mean, you're wrong if you are being skeptical of 268 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:31,320 what I'm going to say. 269 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,320 How dare you? 270 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,360 Yeah, and he does it in a very, what's the word? 271 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,360 Pretentious way. 272 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,360 He thinks he's better. 273 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,160 In a very pretentious way, incredibly. 274 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,160 So there's that. 275 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,720 And I was really happy to stumble upon that in putting this together. 276 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,000 I always lose this guy speaks for himself and I love it. 277 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,080 I don't think we really had anyone speak for themselves like this. 278 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,080 That's not true. 279 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,920 The entire first two episodes of David Wilcock are in fact from his blog. 280 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,920 Yeah, that's true. 281 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,120 That's another good one. 282 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,600 Whenever we're letting somebody speak for themselves, you know it's a good episode. 283 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:08,600 That's true. 284 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,600 That's true. 285 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,600 We're lucky. 286 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,600 Okay. 287 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,680 Next, we meet up with more July 1st, 1989. 288 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,160 So let me just reiterate this timeline. 289 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,960 This article was January 1989. 290 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,800 So then we jump ahead to July 1989. 291 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,040 So it's about six months after he wrote this article. 292 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,560 I'm sure he's been up to stuff during this time. 293 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,440 But to be honest, this is the last episode. 294 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,200 I'm strapped for time, so nobody worry about how we got here. 295 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,840 July 1st, 1989. 296 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,640 Maura is giving a lecture, I guess, if you would like to consider it that at the Mufon 297 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,240 Symposium in Las Vegas. 298 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:50,520 Shit's getting heated now about the MJ12 documents regarding the origin and authenticity of the 299 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,760 documents and his own credibility. 300 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,160 I'm sure that article has come out by that time that he was striking first at. 301 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,640 First strikes back again, if you could call this striking back. 302 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:02,880 I know what you're thinking. 303 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,720 He already struck back with that open letter. 304 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,120 Not good enough, my friends. 305 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:12,080 This is the Mufon Symposium speech that we all wish we had front row tickets for. 306 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,080 It was like Dylan going electric. 307 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,520 I hope you know that didn't go well for Dylan. 308 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,520 I'm not sure. 309 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,440 I'm not sure if that's lost. 310 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,080 Famously always going on tour with his electric guitars nowadays. 311 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,920 I'm sorry I have to send you this link just for you to. 312 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,200 I just wanted there for the guy yelling Judas. 313 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:35,600 So we're going to get that inputted right here for the episode just because I think 314 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,600 it will be funny. 315 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,600 Okay, let's begin. 316 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,600 More. 317 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:49,040 The keynote speaker for Saturday evening had yet to arrive at the Sands Casino Hotel 318 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,280 for the conference. 319 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,600 It had been previously arranged that he would stay elsewhere. 320 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,080 His presentation was slated for one and a half hours. 321 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,560 And this is Bill Morris keynote, right? 322 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,880 Yeah, it would go on for two hours. 323 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,680 There were no questions and answers to follow it well. 324 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,720 There were, but he provided the Q&A's himself like nobody else could do it. 325 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,240 He would exit immediately through a rear door to avoid any confrontation and there were 326 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,080 outcries of derision and threatening remarks throughout the lecture which caused Mufon 327 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,360 Nevada State Director John Lear to call repeatedly to order. 328 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,320 The speech now lives in infamy. 329 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:30,560 Now, before I begin, Taylor, would you be surprised if I told you that this is the exact 330 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:36,240 speech where I got majority of the quotes, I would say 99% from her Bill Moore on Paul 331 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,240 Benowitz episode? 332 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,240 No way. 333 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Yes. 334 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:48,680 To a group of colleagues that he could do the exact same thing to, he talks about how 335 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,680 he was asking for it. 336 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:51,680 Yeah. 337 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,680 Yeah. 338 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:53,680 Yeah. 339 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,760 Yeah, actually, it tracks with everything that we've learned so far about the guy. 340 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,920 I'm not going to touch on any of the Paul Benowitz stuff he talks about in this episode 341 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,640 because he already spoke that for himself in the Paul Benowitz episode. 342 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,360 But now let's just reflect on this all for a moment. 343 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,040 Now that you've reflected about the Paul Benowitz stuff, let's talk about the speech. 344 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,400 I'm going to just summarize it up for a little bit and then I'll give you some more good 345 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,400 stuff. 346 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,240 He gives what becomes a two hour long speech and I'm going to summarize it for you right 347 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,240 now. 348 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,240 I'm Bill Moore. 349 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,560 If you don't know me, but you most likely do because I'm like this really good UFO 350 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:33,560 researcher. 351 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,320 Couple jokes here, couple jokes there. 352 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,520 I'm pretty great, but hey, it was in bed with the government spreading this information 353 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,160 and I was involved with the Paul Benowitz affair. 354 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,520 My actions were totally justified because the government is up to something. 355 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,000 Benowitz, he was crazy. 356 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,000 He deserved it. 357 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,720 I was there to work behind the government's back because they were hiding something and 358 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:59,000 I'm such a good researcher and who better to find out what they're hiding than me. 359 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:05,880 There's a couple other things I leaked, but didn't actually leak. 360 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,080 There was disinformation about the Aztec UFO. 361 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,280 Yeah, those MJ12 documents. 362 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,120 I never said one way or the other whether they're real. 363 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,520 True or not, it's all about UFOs anyway. 364 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,320 And I was looking for the truth. 365 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,360 I'm not going to disinformation agent these days anyway and I'm a really good researcher 366 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,360 and so on and so on. 367 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:26,360 I hope you fucking die. 368 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:27,360 Get him. 369 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:28,360 I am. 370 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:29,360 Lots of hot air was spilled. 371 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:30,520 The speeches, it's so weird. 372 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,920 He's a keynote speaker, yet he's still giving his complete autobiography to the audience 373 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,800 if he's not there to officially join the asshole of the UFO community club. 374 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:47,400 I include a lot of, like I said, just to reiterate a lot of it in the Paul Benowitz episode and 375 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:53,520 there's just a lot of contradictions justifying his actions and victim blaming. 376 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,520 It gives the same feels as the article I just read. 377 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,160 So let's take a look a little bit closer at some of the things he says. 378 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,880 He starts out, well, ladies and gentlemen, friends and enemies, associates and colleagues, 379 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,880 in short, fellow euphologies. 380 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,320 I had really wanted to come here tonight and kick ass. 381 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,800 But fortunately for us, all wiser heads have prevailed and we are going to keep this presentation 382 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,720 as professional as possible. 383 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,560 I might also add that my talk is primarily directed to those of you who are members of 384 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,080 the UFO community. 385 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,720 That is not to suggest that those of you who are here as third parties won't find it interesting. 386 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,400 It is just that you might not be able to follow some of the in-house comments that I'm going 387 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,680 to make as opposed to the outhouse comments, which I shall try to avoid even though in 388 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560 some cases they might be appropriate. 389 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,280 So that's how it starts out. 390 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,800 This is a Mufang conference. 391 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,800 What? 392 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:49,800 Third parties don't go to those. 393 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,800 Probably not. 394 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,000 I just find it just adds to the pompousness of him. 395 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,000 Pretentious in age, yeah. 396 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,400 The pretentious as if he's so much. 397 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,720 I feel like only a person now that's not. 398 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,280 So far in all the assholes that we've seen, they've all had that similar quality about 399 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,280 themselves. 400 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,280 Have they not? 401 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,280 I feel like they have. 402 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,000 I'm thinking back to all of them. 403 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,000 I think they do. 404 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,520 Yeah, I think they do. 405 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:15,520 You know what? 406 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,760 It really depends on what you think of Bozzy Ago and whether or not he's an asshole or 407 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,760 not. 408 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,520 I don't take him as pretentious. 409 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,760 Just a man with a presidential campaign. 410 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,360 There's one I wouldn't link in with this, but I find a majority do you think they're 411 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,320 better than everybody else? 412 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,320 Yes. 413 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:39,560 He really goes for it to make the people who have anything to say against him feel like 414 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,560 they're wrong. 415 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,240 He's not coming. 416 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,680 I don't even know how to say the speech that he gives is kind of being like, I didn't really 417 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,280 do anything wrong. 418 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,760 And if you are going to be skeptical against me, then I mean, that's your problem. 419 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,760 Like you're, you're in the wrong for that is really the feels that it gives me. 420 00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,760 We continue. 421 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,760 I earn the respect of many of you in the audience and I expect that my reputation and credibility 422 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,120 with respect to the Roswell case is at least partly responsible for my having been invited 423 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,360 to speak here tonight. 424 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,880 I urge you to keep that in mind. 425 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,600 If you are one of those who respected my work on Roswell, also doubtful, then I ask you 426 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,800 to consider that I am trying to carry on the same sort of quality investigation with respect 427 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,360 to the project I am currently working on. 428 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:27,920 It's just that the percums... 429 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:28,920 Yeah. 430 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,000 I just want to add at this point, this is nine years after he came out with the Roswell 431 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000 book. 432 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,280 He came out in 1980. 433 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,880 He's really not done anything substantive since then. 434 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,920 Like he has to lean back on that. 435 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,920 Yeah. 436 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,240 He sabotaged Paul Benowitz and he was involved with him. 437 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,160 I mean, yeah, he hasn't, he didn't put out any other books. 438 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,360 Like he's written a few other articles here and there, mostly defending himself. 439 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:57,360 Yeah. 440 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,360 But nothing substantial. 441 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,320 He's written a few presentations about MJ12, but like, yeah, nothing substantive. 442 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,280 He has to go back almost a decade to say, like, remember how you guys trusted him. 443 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,760 And he was probably like foaming at the mouth to like get the MJ12 documents to put a book 444 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,960 out now that I think about it. 445 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,960 Let's continue on. 446 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,200 It's just that the circumstances are quite different and I have not been in a position 447 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,120 until now to properly inform others about what I have been doing. 448 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,760 This unfortunately has given rise to considerable controversy with a number of falsehoods that 449 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,200 have been spread by others in the UFO community who saw it fit to jump on hasty conclusions 450 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600 inappropriately formed without benefit of all the facts. 451 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,360 This is a different section. 452 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:46,360 Others of you who have chosen to cast aspersions and throw rocks in my direction out of fear 453 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:51,040 that I might uncover something which will upstage your own efforts will undoubtedly 454 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,640 take great pains to dissect what I have to say here in an effort to find more reasons 455 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,360 to question my integrity. 456 00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:58,360 No matter. 457 00:24:58,360 --> 00:24:59,360 I jump ahead again. 458 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,280 I feel like he took a little bit of that from his other article. 459 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,520 Yeah, it was. 460 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:09,200 And then next thought moreover in every case where a breakthrough was achieved and progress 461 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,280 was made, it is the achiever who is remembered and honored by history and not the debunker 462 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,640 who said it couldn't be done. 463 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,760 Bottom line here is that the UFO phenomenon is a legitimate subject for study by anyone 464 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,840 in our free society who chooses to do so. 465 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,360 Others who have elected to participate in such a question not be held up to derision 466 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,120 and ridicule because of it. 467 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:36,000 Those debunkers and UFO bashers who have nothing positive to contribute are advised to go and 468 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,600 massage their egos somewhere else. 469 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:45,960 In my opinion, such people have no right whatsoever to dictate to others what is fit for study 470 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,960 and what is. 471 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,920 Yeah, this is my ego massaging area. 472 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,600 Massage tables are full. 473 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,360 I build more and the only one who is free to do what I want. 474 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,200 Massage tables are full. 475 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,200 Yeah. 476 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,600 I can't believe that. 477 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,280 He's like, I'm going to do what I want and anybody who has anything negative to say can 478 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,680 fuck off. 479 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,200 Like straight up fuck off. 480 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,520 Everyone should be believing what I say. 481 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,120 Next thought, I would like to take a moment to ask each and every member of this audience 482 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:27,560 to reach down inside yourself and come up with a true answer to a very important and 483 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,480 very difficult question. 484 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,120 I thought he was going to pull an Oprah. 485 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:33,120 Reach down. 486 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,120 Under your chair. 487 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:35,440 Under your chair. 488 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,680 I don't even know what Bill Moore would give. 489 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,680 Probably nothing. 490 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,680 I don't think he's very rich. 491 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,960 There is an empty envelope. 492 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,560 What you say publicly has no meaning in this process. 493 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,520 It is what you know inside yourself to be the truth that matters. 494 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,040 I want you to ask yourself why you were involved with the UFO phenomenon. 495 00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:01,360 You truly desire answers no matter what those answers may be and no matter how much those 496 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:07,520 answers may be at variance with what you presently believe about UFOs or are you one 497 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520 of those people who thrives on continuing mystery? 498 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:16,800 It was very position in the field of ufology requires that the mystery of UFOs be perpetuated 499 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,640 rather than solved so that you can continue in your self-styled role of importance and 500 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,640 leadership. 501 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,360 I don't know Bill Moore. 502 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:28,280 Did he seriously just say the most objective truth? 503 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,280 Yes. 504 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,960 That's the reason we're all here to find a truth that is only true to us deep down inside. 505 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:36,960 Yes. 506 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,960 Yes. 507 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,200 Not actually true. 508 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,640 As for myself, I made a decision a number of years ago as a result of having suddenly 509 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,880 found myself face to face with an opportunity to learn more about what our government knows 510 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,080 about UFOs. 511 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,580 I believe then and I continue to believe now that it is possible to uncover answers by 512 00:27:58,580 --> 00:28:02,760 searching carefully and completely for them in the right places. 513 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:08,560 Finding those answers and thus ending my so-called career as a ufologist poses no problems at 514 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,840 all for me. 515 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,960 As a writer, I am interested in a variety of subjects. 516 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,120 Many of them non-UFO related. 517 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:24,280 Should I go as far as I feel I can with the UFO question? 518 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,280 I have plenty of other fish to fry, many of which are just as interesting and every bit 519 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,280 is challenging. 520 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:36,320 The truth fellow ufologist is that I have known precisely what I am doing all along. 521 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,360 This fucking guy. 522 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,360 I like this. 523 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,360 He gives us an analogy. 524 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,440 I want to hear what you have to say especially about this Taylor. 525 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,440 I'm really interested. 526 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,920 Okay, he goes on. 527 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,240 This is all the same thought by the way. 528 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,440 Consider the strange case of Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones and the jury. 529 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,760 You, the audience, are the jury and because I only have one interactive audience member 530 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,920 right now, you're the jury Taylor. 531 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:01,920 Okay. 532 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,720 Mr. Smith is dead. 533 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,280 Mr. Jones is being tried for the murder. 534 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,520 The prosecutor stands before you and gives you these facts, here's the facts. 535 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,360 On the police arrived in response to a complaint that a fight was in process. 536 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Mr. Smith was found lying dead on the floor of his apartment. 537 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,120 The cause of death was strangulation and the body was still warm. 538 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,840 Mr. Jones was found bending over the body with his hands still around the victim's 539 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,840 throat. 540 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,320 Neighbors and others who knew both men have testified that there was considerable animosity 541 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:41,000 between the two of them and then on more than one occasion, Mr. Jones was threatened. 542 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,400 Mr. Smith's safety and well-being. 543 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:50,360 Obviously, Jones had gone to see Smith and a violent argument ensued during which Jones 544 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,680 strangled Smith. 545 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,440 Unfortunately for Jones, the police arrived before he was able to affect an escape from 546 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,440 the scene. 547 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,440 You're the jury. 548 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,280 Is this sufficient evidence to condemn Mr. Jones for murder? 549 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,480 Okay, yeah, yeah, it is. 550 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:08,480 It is. 551 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,520 Okay, that's what I thought because he did murder him. 552 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:17,720 And he's still like literally choking, strangling a corpse as they're there. 553 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,600 I myself came to the same conclusion. 554 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,360 Let's hear what Moore has to say because I feel like he's going somewhere with us. 555 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,000 In these cases, if that's all they're going to say and that's the entire trial, then 556 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,160 yes, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. 557 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Oh yeah. 558 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,760 If you're going to hear the other side of it. 559 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,760 Yeah. 560 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Then maybe I don't know, but. 561 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Yeah. 562 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,120 Okay, I re-open and shut. 563 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,120 You bring up a good point, but it does feel like you murdered him, doesn't it? 564 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,120 Yeah. 565 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,200 Okay, a significant minority who listened to my Smith and Jones scenario, like yes, we 566 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,920 did, we're sitting right here, Bill Moore, however, hesitated before passing judgment. 567 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,400 What is Mr. Jones' defense they wanted to know? 568 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,440 And of course, that's really what it's all about. 569 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,880 In the case of Smith and Jones, the truth is that it was Smith who invited Jones to 570 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,320 his apartment with the intention of quietly doing him in and disposing of the body before 571 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,080 anyone was the wiser. 572 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,680 Jones, however, turned the tables on Smith and accidentally killed him in the process 573 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,680 of self-defense. 574 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,120 So yeah, he did murder him. 575 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,000 He did in the end murder him still. 576 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:26,600 Yeah, they're saying that it was self-defense, but he likely took it too far and he no longer 577 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,880 has a right to self-defense as a defense to murder because generally it's very rare to 578 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,520 say that you're allowed to take self-defense to murder. 579 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,520 Yeah. 580 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,520 Who end a life. 581 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:43,080 I mean, in my opinion, whether it was self-defense or not, like he still did murder the guy. 582 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,800 Well yeah, but what he's saying is if you're on the jury, then you've reacted too fast and 583 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,080 technically he has a defense you haven't heard. 584 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,080 Yeah. 585 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,080 Like that's the whole point. 586 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,640 In which case, I guess so, yeah, in which case, I mean, you're probably going to hear 587 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,400 that and we're getting his story right now. 588 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,600 I just like his little scenario there. 589 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,600 Yeah. 590 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:03,600 Yeah. 591 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,960 Fools, for you did not realize that I have came up with this scenario specifically for 592 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:08,960 my own purposes. 593 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,080 How did you not realize this? 594 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,680 You fools, for if you doubt me, you are wrong. 595 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,680 If you are a fucking idiot. 596 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,680 Okay. 597 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:25,440 So he also addresses MJ 12, he says quote, the anonymous arrival of the so-called MJ 598 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,720 12 documents in December of 84 was another factor we had to contend with in this increasingly 599 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,240 confusing web problem of their origin and authenticity was and remains a major issue. 600 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,800 And on this point, our position of neutrality has constantly been misrepresented. 601 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,240 Therefore, for the record, it's important to point out here again that at no time have 602 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,800 either I or any of my associates ever stated that these documents are authentic. 603 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,960 Our position has consistently been that we do not know whether they are authentic, but 604 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,160 that we as investigators remain unaware of any convincing evidence, which would suggest 605 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,160 that they are not. 606 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,720 Keep in mind at this point, he's already addressed the Paul Bennewitz stuff that I said in the 607 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,680 Paul Bennewitz episode, he's going on to MJ 12 now. 608 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,120 He also goes on, it seems important to note here that what you are witnessing was the 609 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,400 operation of a plan to put out just enough information of this bizarre information to 610 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,600 attract attention. 611 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:24,240 This is MJ 12 and then carefully monitor who showed up with questions to ask or information 612 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,240 to offer. 613 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,680 Once again, I was careful to state that I remain unconvinced at the authenticity of 614 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,840 the information involved. 615 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:31,840 Yeah, right. 616 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,640 Chelsea, I just need to go back to that part. 617 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,560 He very specifically said that I've never said these are authentic and then just said 618 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,560 they're authentic. 619 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,560 Correct. 620 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,560 Oh yeah, you cut one of his contradictions. 621 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,560 Yeah, okay. 622 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,560 It's rife with these. 623 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,560 It is. 624 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,560 It's definitely rife with these. 625 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,200 I never said these authentic documents are authentic, you idiots. 626 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,280 Angel, when he has a different point to make and a different point of the paper, he changes 627 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,280 it like it's crazy. 628 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,360 It's revolving for what suits him at that time. 629 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,880 Also seemingly in direct relationship to our partial release of MJ 12 material two years 630 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:13,920 ago, the flow of UFO related disinformation has escalated from a point of near insignificance 631 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,480 to what has become almost a flood tide. 632 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,880 Indeed, many of you in the audience came here tonight looking for answers to questions 633 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,080 related directly to that problem. 634 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,800 As I have taken great pains to point out, the current crop of disinformation is really 635 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,800 nothing new. 636 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,640 So it fills up the hook because everyone's doing it as nothing new. 637 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,400 It's just that a different crop of people are spreading it this time around. 638 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,000 I expect that those responsible, not the rumor mongers themselves, but the ones who 639 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,440 are feeding them thought it would work just as well this time as it did last. 640 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,920 The one thing I'm sure they didn't count on is that I would tell my story and thus 641 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,440 become the fly in the ointment. 642 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,080 Those are some good highlights. 643 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,960 A lot of them also disclosed by me and Benowitz. 644 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,280 Remember that because I said it like five times now. 645 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:06,200 To end the whole speech, he aids his own cues as to probably avoid a riot. 646 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,880 Here are some of my faves. 647 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,760 Question number two, am I presently involved in knowingly spreading any sort of disinformation 648 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,760 about UFOs? 649 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:14,880 Answer, no. 650 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:20,120 The only conscious involvement I have ever had with the disinformation operation was 651 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,920 that I have already outlined in connection with the Benowitz case. 652 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,920 That's it. 653 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,400 Question number three, am I presently or have I ever been on the payroll of any agency 654 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:31,400 of the US government? 655 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,400 Answer, no. 656 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,520 He did that all for free folks. 657 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,160 Yeah, without me. 658 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,120 It was for pleasure purposes. 659 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,160 Those are just some of the questions and answers. 660 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,160 There is a handful of them. 661 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,760 I don't know how many, but we got to get on with the episode. 662 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,520 He then goes on to give his position on literally everything under the fucking sun. 663 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,840 I'll give you a few, obviously. 664 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,480 Position number five, we have been able to confirm that there is in fact a group known 665 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,480 as MJ12, which operates at the White House National Security Council level. 666 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,400 To the best of my knowledge, this group still uses the MJ12 designator. 667 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,640 The level of security around this group is such that we have not yet succeeded in establishing 668 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:17,400 whether or not its functions are UFO related or precisely how long it has been in existence. 669 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,960 Along these same lines, none of our sources have indicated any knowledge whatsoever of 670 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:28,720 terms such as Magi, Majesty, PL40, Plato, Garnet, or a number of other terms currently 671 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,000 circulating within the UFO Great Byte. 672 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,000 I feel like this also directly contradicts what he said in his speech. 673 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:42,400 Yeah, well, it's like the documents themselves, like clearly identify when MJ12 would have 674 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,200 been started, the original members, the orders to do it. 675 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,120 I guess technically he's saying since these aren't authentic, this is all relied on an 676 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,640 external, or sorry, not authentic, but not confirmed to be authentic. 677 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,600 Therefore, he's relying on external sources that he's heard outside of those documents. 678 00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,600 I don't know. 679 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,600 This is weird. 680 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,240 I, isn't it weird? 681 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:07,040 And like for him to give the position of I've never confirmed or denied like anything to 682 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,360 do with MJ12. 683 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,640 And then at the end, I do understand the separation here in that he's saying that the documents 684 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,000 themselves have never been confirmed, nor have I ever said they're authentic. 685 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,000 But it is. 686 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,560 Anyhow, these authentic documents do tell me that MJ12 is real and MJ12 does still exist. 687 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,520 And I've learned that from outside sources. 688 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,520 Yeah. 689 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,520 Okay. 690 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,520 Fair enough. 691 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,520 Bill Moore. 692 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,480 The controversial MJ12 papers. 693 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,000 These have now been examined by a number of question documents experts and other research 694 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,960 on them is continuing as well. 695 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,880 As you've just heard from my good friend, Stanton, I don't know. 696 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,320 In the case of the Cutler Twining Memo found in the National Archives, I can state with 697 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:51,240 reasonable certainty that it is an authentic document and that best evidence indicates 698 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:56,280 that someone planted it amidst the papers in record group 341, knowing that there is 699 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,480 a strong chance we would find it there. 700 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,320 With respect to the so-called Eisenhower Briefing Document, there is no compelling reason to 701 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,680 believe it is anything but authentic. 702 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,640 On the other hand, its authenticity remains far from proved. 703 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:15,320 So, in the final analysis, the scale remains balanced by the weight of arguments on both 704 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,320 sides. 705 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,640 If it's the real thing, it's going to take extraordinary evidence to convince even some 706 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,080 of the more liberal skeptics. 707 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,720 If it's a hoax, it's extraordinarily well done. 708 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:30,480 In either case, there's a major story here and the controversy is far from over. 709 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:36,760 As for the so-called Truman Executive Order of September 24, 1947, which is actually the 710 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,040 final page of the portion of the Eisenhower document which we have, the analysts have 711 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,840 come up with mixed results. 712 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,360 I'm not yet disproved. 713 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,720 This document presents the weakest case of the three. 714 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:51,280 We are not yet prepared to release a final report on this matter. 715 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,240 Before leaving it, however, I would like to at least comment on what has emerged as the 716 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:59,120 most controversial aspect of the MJ-12 document affair. 717 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,400 That of the date format. 718 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,400 There are a couple of points I would like to make. 719 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,880 Similarities between stylistic characteristics of the documents and my own writings are important 720 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,120 and are not dissimilarities equally important. 721 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,360 There are some, you know, even in the way the dates are written. 722 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,760 Why do those who go to such pains to point out similarities not go to equal pains to 723 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,880 point out dissimilarities? 724 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,800 Could it, I wonder, be prejudice? 725 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,720 Or does the word incompetence better describe it? 726 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:31,400 We are by no means convinced that the date format is as critical an issue as others would 727 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,400 make it out to be. 728 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,640 While the style is admittedly unusual, it is not without precedent. 729 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,720 To those of you who still harbor suspicions that I created the documents and I am perpetuating 730 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,560 a hoax, I say thank you for the compliment. 731 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,040 To those of you who think it is more likely that I am an innocent victim of an elaborate 732 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,680 hoax, I can see that this remains a possibility which has not yet been entirely ruled out. 733 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,880 I do really like actually that he is admitting he could very well have fallen for disinformation 734 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,160 several times in there. 735 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,160 Like about how the memo was planted in the archives for him to find probably. 736 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,680 That was his stance on the MJ12 document. 737 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:10,680 That's why I put it in there. 738 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,320 At the time of the speech, that was his stance on the MJ12 documents. 739 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,120 We do know how that ends. 740 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,720 In the last episode. 741 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:24,000 I'm just here telling you guys a story in an artistic way. 742 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,000 That's the Mufon speech. 743 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,720 Let's hold our comments for after. 744 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,760 So after the Mufon speech, more all but disappears from the UFO world. 745 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,480 I know that's a surprise. 746 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,600 Aside from an interview he wrote some articles. 747 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,160 This whole speech was laid out in a Mufon UFO journal. 748 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,640 I was able to take some stuff out of there. 749 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,560 Weird it ended for him. 750 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,120 However, Dodie is still somehow going real strong. 751 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,640 Even what we know about Dodie. 752 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,480 So it is odd that it ended for him here. 753 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,480 Maybe it's. 754 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,480 No, Dodie. 755 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,360 Like I saw him in like interviews on major news networks this year. 756 00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,360 Like 2023. 757 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,360 Yeah. 758 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,360 Through to everything going on right now. 759 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,280 I was just going to say what was that in regards to Taylor? 760 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,240 Yeah, it was the David Grusk congressional statements. 761 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,240 Weird. 762 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:10,240 Yeah. 763 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:11,240 Yeah. 764 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,840 We might cover that in about 30 years or so. 765 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:15,840 Yeah. 766 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:16,840 Yeah. 767 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,240 Give us some time to see how it settles. 768 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:24,440 The few interviews he does after the speech not only says he's still a controlled informant 769 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,440 1992 UFO volume seven. 770 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,400 Number one, he also goes on to throw other people under the bus. 771 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,400 Moore insisted that there were other ufologists engaged in the same game spreading bogus concepts 772 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,760 that came to be tenants of ufology. 773 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,160 What could he possibly mean by he wasn't the only one? 774 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,840 Well he says that over and over in his speech for one. 775 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,160 But you're in luck. 776 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:55,200 June 11th, 1994 during an interview, Moore says there were a lot of other ufologists involved 777 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,800 with this and I never discussed this before. 778 00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,320 He alluded to it a whole lot. 779 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,960 One of those others was J.L. 780 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,560 Lynn Heineck who did covert work who knew what he was doing and he was very much involved 781 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,160 with one phase of disinformation operation that was used in the Benowitz affair. 782 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,120 Heineck was part of this operation. 783 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,320 He was under contract to the Air Force and I have a copy of that contract in case anybody 784 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:19,880 wants to contest this. 785 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,120 A general discussion of the Benowitz story followed on that interview after a commercial 786 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,800 break the host asked him about alluding to other prominent ufologists involved in this 787 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,640 information in Moore's 1989 Lupin speech. 788 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:33,640 Moore says about this. 789 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:34,640 Yes. 790 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,960 There are others and one of them I just named off Mike and that will come up in focus and 791 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,200 I'm sure that's going to be very controversial because that individual has written a number 792 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,200 of books. 793 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,880 It's about time some of these other people had to answer for some of the things they're 794 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,880 doing. 795 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,480 Then on August 10th, 2000 in Saucer Smear Moore said the following regarding the Benowitz 796 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,960 affair in general two things which have never come to light in which might prove most interesting 797 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,040 to ufology are the roles played by Dr. J.L. 798 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,680 Lynn Heineck and Jacques Vili. 799 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:09,960 I personally know that Heineck was still under contract of USAF consultant at that time and 800 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,320 Vili had very close ties with the CIA and others. 801 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,160 Although what his obligations to them may have been I do not know. 802 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,480 Are those still hoping to uncover some hidden treasure in this whole mess? 803 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,040 Here's a good place to begin. 804 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,080 Heineck's hitherto unknown forte had to do with providing Benowitz a carefully crafted 805 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,800 means of decoding the supposed alien transmissions he was intercepting. 806 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,920 As for Vili, numerous clues pertaining to his particular specialty can be gleaned by 807 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,080 a careful rereading of his book, Messengers of Deception. 808 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,040 That's actually not where it ends in Greg Bishop's group project Beta. 809 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,760 Moore contributed more thoughts. 810 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,360 After the close of project Blue Book in 1969, J.L. 811 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,960 Lynn Heineck had reportedly continued to receive $5,000 a year, one of thousands of academics 812 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,280 the government keeps on payroll in case they might be needed. 813 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,480 Sort of like egghead sleeper agents. 814 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,760 There's more, but I think you get the idea. 815 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,720 He just went on to be like, yeah, well, I'm not the only one into oblivion to the end. 816 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,040 And I don't think anyone's heard from him. 817 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,000 And that's when he rode off into the sunset. 818 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,080 Yeah, so I'm sure he's living a happy life now. 819 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,080 And that's my episode. 820 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,840 How do we feel about that? 821 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,280 That is actually the first time I've ever heard Jacques Vallée brought up with regards 822 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,160 to disinformation campaigns. 823 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:31,400 I don't exactly trust Bill Moore, so I will definitely have to look into this myself. 824 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,960 He said that he had proof and it didn't provide any proof. 825 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:37,960 No. 826 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:38,960 Yes. 827 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,560 And then the contract turned out to be a forgery provided to him by a disinformation. 828 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,200 He found it in an archive though, so it must be real. 829 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,120 Do you want to give us closing thoughts on the matter? 830 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:57,200 Yeah, this has been more eventful than a name of Bill Moore would prescribe to such events. 831 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:03,400 He really turned out to be the quintessential asshole of the UFO community. 832 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,560 Not only is he an asshole to everyone in a large conference, but then proceeds to throw 833 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,600 everybody else under the bus and then say, there's only enough room in this room for 834 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,720 me, the asshole, get out of here and then proceeds to leave the room. 835 00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:24,680 Yeah, that's been a boiled steak infused frenzy that is the Bill Moore saga. 836 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,680 Thank you for this, Chelsea. 837 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,200 I had no idea I needed to know about this man and then I would immediately forget about 838 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,200 him. 839 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,200 I really think we all needed to know about it. 840 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,200 Yeah. 841 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,520 Because all of these, like every single episode focuses on major topics that have been shaped 842 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:44,600 and are still talked about within the conspiracy slash UFO community today without this context. 843 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,720 Exactly without any question to it at all. 844 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,480 It's really quite crazy and it's all ideas that are still out there today. 845 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,040 And this guy basically seems to have like quietly apologized and admitted everything 846 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,720 he's worked on has been bad or a fraud. 847 00:45:57,720 --> 00:45:59,560 Not without telling us that we were wrong. 848 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:00,560 Yeah. 849 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:01,560 For doubting him. 850 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,080 Like heavily gaslighting us to make us feel bad about it. 851 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,080 It was interesting. 852 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,920 It was, this was a really fun one to do. 853 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,240 It provided a lot for us and I feel like in a couple episodes when we forget about them, 854 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:19,080 we'll still remember the stories that came from Bill Moore. 855 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,080 Not the name. 856 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,000 No, but not the name at all. 857 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,960 Well, thank you for this Chelsea and this finishes off September for us. 858 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,920 So we'll be moving into our Halloween stuff from here. 859 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:30,920 I can't wait. 860 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,560 Any final thoughts that you wanted to say about Bill Moore or has four episodes been 861 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:35,560 enough? 862 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,720 Four episodes has been enough, I feel like. 863 00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:41,560 And thank you Bill Moore for providing us your point of view on it all. 864 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,560 It was such an easy script. 865 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,560 Yes. 866 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,120 It was really quite enlightening to hear it from your point of view. 867 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,520 Thank you for making us feel horribly about thinking about, well, I mean, it can only 868 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,440 go so far with what you're telling us to feel about it, Bill Moore, but you tried to make 869 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,400 us feel horrible about doubting you, but I don't. 870 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:01,400 Yes. 871 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,960 And with that, I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. 872 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,400 We are Journey to the Fringe. 873 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,640 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 874 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:08,640 Bye. 875 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,000 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 876 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:19,120 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow, 877 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,320 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 878 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:28,480 Also please, if possible, leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 879 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,320 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 880 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,040 I bet you we are there. 881 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,520 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 882 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:46,440 us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringe.com. 883 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:52,760 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.