1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,200 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:18,280 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, a place best viewed from afar, like say, through 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,600 a podcast. 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,740 We are your natural medium for this, hosts Taylor and Chelsea. 5 00:00:23,740 --> 00:00:29,520 And today we are going to be talking about our old friend who Chelsea tells me I cannot 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,200 call Billy, for that gives him too much pizzazz. 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,200 Too much flavor. 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,720 Just too much flavor. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:40,160 I think I described him well in the first episode where they could replace beige on paint shelves 10 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:43,880 everywhere with the name Bill Moore and it would just give you the best idea of what's 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,880 in that can. 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:46,880 It's true. 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,840 Anyhow, today I get to take a crack at this guy. 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,200 Having learned all the stuff that Chelsea has talked about so far, we are going to look 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,480 at the story of Majestic 12. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,880 This is something that you may have seen before. 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,080 It goes by several names, MJ12 and Magic12. 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,920 All that more or less the same thing. 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,020 We're going to be looking at one particular part of it. 20 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:11,180 We could do another episode in the future, but from basically this story, we're going 21 00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:14,240 to be looking at it from how it pertains to Bill Moore. 22 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,880 Now for this, I looked at a few websites. 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,480 I usually start out with the Wikipedia article from there. 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:26,040 I've also looked at noufors.com, Roswellfiles.com, The Huffington Post, Mystery Wire. 25 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,520 So with that, I think we're in a good spot to tell you the story about Majestic 12, where 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,440 it comes from, what comes out with it, and then the reception of it and kind of how we 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,400 look back on it at least from a critical lens. 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,160 Chelsea, are you ready for this? 29 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,600 I'm excited to hear, especially with Bill Moore goggles. 30 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,600 They're so beige. 31 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,160 It's beige in here. 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,880 Looking at the world through Bill Moore goggles. 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,720 Seems boring, but I feel like it'll be a good episode. 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:04,620 This story begins in 1984 and not with a man by the name of Bill Moore, but a documentary 35 00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:07,480 producer by the name of Jamie Chanderra. 36 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,680 Now Jamie Chanderra is mining his own business in his own home, reading a magazine when a 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,800 mysterious envelope drops through his mail slot. 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,760 There is no return address on it. 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:23,840 There is only postmarks in the top corner and he opens up this envelope and it contains 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,080 a role of undeveloped film. 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,120 Now, not a ufologist himself, and coincidentally about to have dinner with a man by the name 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,880 of William Moore, who we from here on out will be calling Bill Moore. 43 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,520 He said, you know what, I should bring this to dinner with Bill Moore because outside 44 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,120 of this, I don't know what the fuck we're going to talk about. 45 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,760 The guy just enjoys his steak. 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:46,760 So wet. 47 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,120 We got to talk about something else. 48 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,720 He's always going out for dinner that guy. 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,040 He does strike me as the kind of guy who does not know how to cook. 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,360 And that would be a character trait that you could build off of. 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,400 Basically, for as far as Bill Moore goes. 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,080 Yeah, so he brings this and Moore at this time had made a name for himself. 53 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,880 There's no revelations out there about what's happened to Benowitz that's still going on 54 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,440 or going to be happening in the future from here. 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,600 Then he several years before this had the Roswell incident come out in 1980. 56 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,520 And because of this, people know him at least in his circles as somebody who gets reached 57 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,000 out to by insiders. 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,440 So Chandra thought this would be a great thing from time to time. 59 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Bill was getting various official looking papers passing through him. 60 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,800 The implications being that someone within the US government military intelligence community 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,720 wish to make available information on UFOs that would otherwise have remained forever 62 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,600 outside the public domain. 63 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,680 Basically he had constant access as he believed to government intelligence and personnel. 64 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,320 And because of this, his friends and Jamie Chandra, I believe as at least a good acquaintance 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,320 would know this. 66 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,120 And this is why he brought the role of film to him to talk about. 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,880 I don't know whether or not they had dinner plans outside of this or if it was set up 68 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,880 for this. 69 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,560 But anyhow, this is how the story goes. 70 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,600 Once Bill heard Chandra's strange tale about receiving this, he ditched the dinner and 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,920 went to his house to develop the images on this role of film. 72 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,520 Oh, that's serious. 73 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,560 He also might not have wanted to pay for dinner. 74 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:18,560 I don't know for sure. 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,880 I don't know if he's that high. 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,200 No, he apparently did. 77 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,440 I don't know about the other side. 78 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,840 It doesn't come up from there. 79 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:33,800 The film, when developed, showed images of eight pages of documents that appeared to 80 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,360 be a briefing describing something called Operation Majestic 12. 81 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,080 And this is what these documents say. 82 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:47,240 These clearly identify themselves as top secret or above top secret and not to be disclosed. 83 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,960 Operation Majestic 12 is a top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible 84 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,880 directly and only to the president of the United States. 85 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,320 Operations of the project are carried out under the control of Majestic 12 in brackets 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,640 Magic 12 Group, which was established by special classified executive orders of President 87 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:12,040 Truman on the 24th of September, 1947, upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary 88 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,600 James Forrestal. 89 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,480 Pictures of the Majestic 12 group are designated as follows, and I added a little bit here 90 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,760 just to give you context as to who these 12 people are. 91 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,920 We're just going to read right through these documents because they're fairly straightforward 92 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,480 and pretty short. 93 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,400 The 12 identified as part of Majestic 12 are Rear Admiral Roscoe Hillencoder, first director 94 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,480 of the Central Intelligence, Dr. Vannevar Bush, chairman of the Joint Research and Development 95 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,240 Board, advisor to the president and key player in the atomic bomb development, James V. 96 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,240 Forrestal. 97 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,360 Forrest, U.S. Secretary of Defense, Nathan F. Twining, commander of the Air Materiel 98 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,120 Command at right field, and later chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S.'s 99 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:58,160 highest military position, General Hoyt Vandenberg, chief of military intelligence during World 100 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:04,640 War II and second director of Central Intelligence, Dr. Detlev Bronk, biophysicist, head of the 101 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,160 National Academy of Science and chairman of the Medical Advisory Board of the Atomic Energy 102 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,840 Committee, Dr. Jeremy Hunsaker, renowned aircraft designer and chairman of the National 103 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:18,880 Advisory Committee on Aeronautics, Rear Admiral Sidney Sauer, first director of the Central 104 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,800 Intelligence, which I think was already claimed higher up. 105 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,360 Yes, don't know why that happens, but this is a description from a website, so this is 106 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,760 the only description I could find. 107 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:35,840 Appointed first executive secretary of National Security Council in 1947, Gordon Gray, assistant 108 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:41,160 secretary of the Army, became the National Security Advisor and director of CIA's Psychological 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,640 Strategy Board, Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Harvard Professor of Astrophysics and Debunker of 110 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,280 UFOs, Major General Robert Montague, head of the Special Weapons Project at the Atomic 111 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:58,400 Energy Commission at Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Dr. Lloyd V. Brickiner, executive secretary 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,160 of the Joint Research and Development Board, member of the CIA-funded UFO Committee in the 113 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,160 1950s. 114 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:09,040 So that's the group, and this is what happens here, the story behind Majestic 12 after this. 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,080 On the 24th of June 1947, a civilian pilot flying over the Cascade Mountains in the state 116 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,400 of Washington observed nine flying discs shaped aircrafts traveling in formation at a high 117 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,400 rate of speed. 118 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,600 Although this was not the first known sighting of such objects, it was the first to gain 119 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,000 widespread attention in the public media. 120 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,440 Hundreds of reporting sightings of similar objects followed. 121 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,640 Many of these came from highly credible military and civilian sources, and these reports resulted 122 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,920 in the independent efforts of several different elements of the military to ascertain the 123 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,400 nature of the purpose of these objects in the interests of national defense. 124 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,120 A number of witnesses were interviewed, and there were several unsuccessful attempts to 125 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,440 utilize aircrafts in efforts to pursue reported discs in flight. 126 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Public reaction bordered on near hysteria at the times. 127 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,960 And just so we are still on the same page, this is still the documents on the film. 128 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,800 In spite of these efforts, little of substance was learned about the objects until a local 129 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,400 rancher reported that one had crashed in a remote region of New Mexico located approximately 130 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,760 75 miles northwest of Roswell Air Force Base. 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:14,000 On July 7th, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure recovery of the wreckage of 132 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,880 this object for scientific study. 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,240 During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance discovered that four small 134 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,080 human-like beings had apparently ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded. 135 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,880 These had fallen on Earth about two miles east of the wreckage site, all four were 136 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,280 dead and badly decomposed due to actions by predators and exposure to the elements during 137 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,680 the approximately one-week time period which had elapsed before their discovery. 138 00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:40,800 A special scientific team took charge of removing these bodies for study. 139 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,720 The wreckage of the craft was also removed to several different locations. 140 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,920 Civilian and military witnesses in the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given 141 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,440 the effective cover story that the object had been a misguided weather research balloon. 142 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:54,440 So the Roswell story. 143 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Can I ask where specifically this happened? 144 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,680 That actually, it says C attachment B and C attachment B for a lot of this. 145 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:03,680 This is in Roswell. 146 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,960 No, I don't actually get into it because C attachment B and C are referenced in here. 147 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,960 He doesn't have the attachments. 148 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,520 He just has these eight pages. 149 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,120 It's not Aztec, New Mexico, is it? 150 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,680 You just wait right here. 151 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:16,680 Okay. 152 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:22,120 They covert analytical effort organized by General Twining and Dr. Bush acting on the 153 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,480 direct orders of the president resulted in a preliminary consensus that the disk was 154 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,000 most likely a short range of reconnaissance craft. 155 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,200 This conclusion was based for the most part on a craft size and the apparent lack of any 156 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,800 identifiable provisions. 157 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,040 A similar analysis of the four dead occupants were arranged by Dr. Bronk. 158 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,680 It was the tentative conclusion of this group that although these creatures are human like 159 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:46,160 in appearance, biological and evolutionary processes responsible for their development 160 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,920 has apparently been quite different from those observed and postulated in Homo sapiens. 161 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:58,720 Dr. Bronk's T has suggested the term extraterrestrial biological entities or EBS as seen in Serpo 162 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,640 be adopted as the standard term of reference. 163 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:02,800 They call them EBS. 164 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,800 E-B-E-S. 165 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,360 What the fuck, baby? 166 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,920 The adopted is a standard term of reference for these creatures until such as terms, such 167 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,360 as time as more definitive designations can be agreed upon. 168 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,200 Since it is virtually certain that these crafts do not originate any country on earth, considerable 169 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,880 speculation is centered around what their point of origin may be and how they get here. 170 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,480 Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists most notably Dr. Menzel consider 171 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,960 it more likely that they were dealing with beings from another solar system entirely. 172 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,560 Numerous examples of what appear to be a form of writing was found in the wreckage. 173 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,960 Efforts to decipher these have remained largely unsuccessful. 174 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Equally unsuccessful has been the efforts to determine the methods of propulsion or the 175 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,880 nature of the transmission of the power source involved. 176 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,760 Which along these lines has been complicated by the complete absence of identifiable wings, 177 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,520 propellers, jets, or other conventional methods of propulsion and guidance, as well as total 178 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:01,280 lack of metallic wing, vacuum tubes, or similar recognizable electronic components. 179 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,480 It is assumed that the propulsion unit was completely destroyed by the explosion which 180 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,640 caused the crash. 181 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:10,200 A need for as much additional information as possible about these crafts, their performance 182 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,600 characteristics and their purposes, led to the undertaking known as the US Air Force 183 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,560 Project SIGN in December of 1947. 184 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:23,360 In order to preserve security, liaison between SIGN and Majestic 12 was limited to two individuals 185 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,280 within the Intelligence Division of Air Material Command, whose role was to pass along certain 186 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,600 types of information through these channels. 187 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,160 SIGN evolved into Project Grudge in December of 1948. 188 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,800 The operation is currently being conducted under the code name Blue Book, with liaison 189 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,960 maintained through the Air Force, who is the head of the project. 190 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:48,640 In December 6th of 1950, a second object, probably of similar origin, impacted the earth 191 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:54,760 at high speed in El Indio, Guerrero, area of Texas Mexican border, after following a 192 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,840 long trajectory through the atmosphere. 193 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:02,080 By the time a search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost completely incinerated. 194 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:07,120 Such materials, as could be recovered, was transported to the AEC facility at Sandia, 195 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,600 New Mexico for study. 196 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,480 First the one I thought was the crash you were talking about, but it clearly is not. 197 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,480 That one's in Texas. 198 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:14,480 Oh, okay. 199 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,400 But yeah, we have one in Raw as well that they talk about, and then the one in Texas 200 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,400 that they talked about. 201 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,400 Okay. 202 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,400 This is the last paragraph here. 203 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,720 Implications for the national security are of continuing importance in that the motives 204 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,160 and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown. 205 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,840 In addition, a significant upsurge in the surveillance activity of these crafts, beginning 206 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,960 in May and continuing through the autumn of this year, has caused considerable concern 207 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,240 that the new development may be imminent. 208 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,920 Is for these reasons, as well as for the obvious international technological considerations, 209 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,960 and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic 12 group remains 210 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,880 of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should 211 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,040 continue without interruption into the new administration. 212 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:07,160 At the same time, contingency plan MJ-1949-04P-78, top secret eyes only, should be held in continued 213 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,040 readiness, should the need to make a public announcement present itself. 214 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:18,240 And then one more page is attached, and this is a letter from Truman himself, the President. 215 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,240 The White House, Washington, September 24th, 1947. 216 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,240 Memorandum for the Secretary of Defense, Dear Secretary Forestel. 217 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,760 As per our recent conversations on this matter, you are hereby authorized to proceed with 218 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,680 all due speed and caution upon your undertakings. 219 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,360 Hereafter this matter shall be referred to only as Operation Majestic 12. 220 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,840 Despite the fact in the other document, it's also called a Brackets' Magic 12. 221 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,640 It continues to be my feeling that any future consideration relative to the ultimate disposition 222 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,720 of this matter should rest solely with the office of the President, following appropriate 223 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,880 discussions with yourself, Dr. Bush and the Director of Central Intelligence, Harry Truman. 224 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,920 And that is what's on that roll. 225 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:57,920 They're exciting. 226 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,040 They're probably peeing their pants with excitement. 227 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,560 Yeah, and I don't think it's actually come up so far in the story. 228 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,520 Well, it came up a little bit, sorry. 229 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,520 Stanton Friedman is involved at this point here too. 230 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,200 So Bill is friends with Stanton. 231 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,880 Sorry, that comes up in a bit. 232 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,280 But anyhow, Bill rushes home, develops a film, and sees that it's pictures of these 233 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,680 top secret documents and gets so excited. 234 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,080 He's basically peeing himself with excitement, I'm sure. 235 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:32,240 So from here, his research begins, and he brings in Stanton Friedman and his friend Jamie, 236 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,040 and they start combing for any more information they can find about Majestic 12. 237 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,640 At this point, Bill receives some anonymous messages, one of them being a postcard delivered 238 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,560 to Bill Moore in 1985. 239 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,720 It is postmarked New Zealand, and it suggests to him to research newly declassified documents 240 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,000 at the U.S. National Archives. 241 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,560 Moore and Jamie Schindera do this, and they found a memo confirming the existence of MJ-12, 242 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,200 written by Eisenhower's Special Assistant for National Security, Robert Cutler, and 243 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,680 addressed to Nathan Twining, one of the MJ-12 members, the U.S. Air Force Chiefs of SAF. 244 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,440 And this is the document that they find. 245 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,080 It's called the Cutler Twining Memo. 246 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,880 Memorandum for General Twining. 247 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,640 Subject, NSC-MJ-12, Special Studies Project. 248 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,560 The President has decided that the MJ-12 SSP briefing should take place during the already 249 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:25,400 scheduled White House meeting of July 16th, rather than following it as previously intended. 250 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,600 More precise arrangements will be explained to you upon arrival. 251 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Please alter your plans accordingly. 252 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,640 Your concurrence in the above change of arrangements is assumed. 253 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,920 End of document, they find. 254 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,720 And this is accompanied by a note from Stanton Freedmen. 255 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,080 This document was found after a few days of searching in the just declassified boxes of 256 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,120 record group 341 in mid-1985 by Jamie Schindera and William Moore. 257 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,400 Stanton Freedmen has discovered during a visit to the National Archives in March of 1985 258 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:57,720 that the RG, which is the record group, was in the process of being declassification reviewed. 259 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,440 Items were received hinting that checking the file would be a good idea. 260 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,720 This memo clearly has nothing to do with the classification review, which involved many 261 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,080 teams of four, each working for a few weeks in a location where they were able to bring 262 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,880 in notes, files, briefcases, etc. 263 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,080 The items in its original form is a carbon of dictation's onion skin by Foxpaper. 264 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,600 I don't know what that means. 265 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,440 It is discovered around the edges. 266 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,280 My best bet for the actual author is James S. Lay, who was Executive Secretary of NSC 267 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,200 and worked very, very closely with Cutler and met, quote, off the record, end quote, 268 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,160 with Ike at the White House on July 14, 1954. 269 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,720 The mark through classification is random. 270 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,920 So they basically, they go in search, they find this one document that also proves that 271 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,200 that what they received in those pictures wasn't bullshit. 272 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,600 So they're getting very excited. 273 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,880 Moore, Freedmen, and Schindera worked carefully for two and a half years. 274 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,880 So they get this information in 1984. 275 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,200 They're working hard and they're attempting to determine the authenticity of everything 276 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,560 involved and they think that they have that authenticity through this thing they find 277 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,560 in the archives. 278 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,560 Then, May 31, 1987, a man by the name of Timothy Good, just completely unrelated to this, a 279 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,360 British ufologist, comes out with a book called Above Top Secret, the Worldwide UFO Cover-Up, 280 00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:12,440 and he claims to be in possession of 1950s-era UFO documents. 281 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:18,120 The documents purport to reveal a secret committee of 12 supposedly formed in 1947 by an executive 282 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:23,120 order by US President Harry S. Truman and explain how the crash of alien spacecraft at Roswell 283 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:27,880 in July of 1947 has been concealed, how the recovered alien technology could be exploited, 284 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,840 and how the US should engage with the extraterrestrials in the future. 285 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,400 With Timothy Good's release, it was decided that the best course of action for these three 286 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:41,640 investigators, Bill, Jamie, and Stanton, was to follow suit and they just decided to release 287 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,120 all the information they have at a UFO symposium. 288 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:50,120 That's basically the story of where everything comes from for Majestic 12. 289 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,400 First talks about it are with Jamie Chanderra. 290 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,920 Do we know why? 291 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,600 Bill gets it, develops it. 292 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,240 No, completely unknown. 293 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,880 It's completely anonymous how it was dropped off. 294 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,440 No idea why he got it and just so happens that Bill Moore is a friend of the guy, so 295 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:05,880 he gives it to Bill Moore. 296 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,920 Lot of coincidences. 297 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,520 Before this, the guy was not in the UFO community. 298 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,000 He was just a producer of movies, documentaries. 299 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,000 Weird. 300 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,000 That's weird. 301 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,000 He did know Bill Moore for some reason. 302 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,360 So they release this information to the public, go on a big talking tour about it, and it's 303 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,360 polarizing, but a lot of people in the UFO community accept this as true. 304 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:28,760 That Majestic 12 is a thing. 305 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,400 It's a group of 12 people who throttle all UFO information to the public. 306 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,600 Soon distrust and suspicion led to disagreement within the ufology community over the authenticity 307 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,440 of the MJ12 documents. 308 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,520 And Moore was accused of taking part in an elaborate hoax while other ufologists did 309 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:50,800 be punkers such as Philip J. Klass were accused of being disinformation agents. 310 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,360 This is part of it that fully believes the story of Majestic 12 that I'm going to read 311 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,360 through. 312 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,280 Because of the MJ12 documents are on film, the original paper or ink cannot be analyzed. 313 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,200 However, there are many factual details that can be checked, such as the background of 314 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,480 the 12 members of the committee, the dates of meetings, the style and format of similar 315 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,520 documents, and the validity of the signatures. 316 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,560 Clearly, MJ12 had an all star cast as well as Secretary of Defense, Forestel. 317 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,800 Clearly, MJ12 had an all star cast as well as Secretary of Defense, Forestel. 318 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,160 There were the first three directors of Central Intelligence, an Air Force General, an Army 319 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,840 General, the Secretary of the Army, and five of the US's most influential scientists. 320 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,640 This was the cream of the US's military, scientific and intelligence communities. 321 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,280 If there was to be a top secret government group investigating UFOs, this would have 322 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,280 been it. 323 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,160 The only member of this list who seems out of place is Dr. Donald Menzel, a Harvard University 324 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,160 astronomer. 325 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,920 He had written three anti-UFO books and many papers debunking flying saucers. 326 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,840 All but Menzel were known to have high level security clearances and because of this, many 327 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,480 researchers were inclined to think that the MJ12 documents were bogus. 328 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,960 However, in April of 1986, Stanton Friedman was allowed to access Menzel's papers at 329 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,880 the Harvard University Archives. 330 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,480 He learned that Menzel had a 30 year association with the National Security Agency and that 331 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,600 he had also had a top secret ultra clearance with the CIA. 332 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,360 It has also been proved that Menzel made numerous visits to New Mexico in 1947 and 48 paid for 333 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:13,840 by government expenses. 334 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,640 The earliest reference to Majestic is in the memo supposedly sent by Truman to Forestel. 335 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,800 The memo, which names the President's Science Advisor, Vannevar Bush, is dated September 336 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,200 24th, 1947. 337 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,520 This happens to be the only day between May and December on which Truman met with Bush. 338 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,720 He also met Bush that day and the date is also significant in that it was the day after 339 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,320 Nathan Twine and Commanding General of the Error Material Command sent a secret memo 340 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,560 to the Pentagon relating to firing discs. 341 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,880 In it, Twining states quote, the phenomenon reported as something real and not visionary 342 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,880 or fictitious. 343 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,280 So there are dates do seem to line up and the people do seem to line up and being in 344 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,240 places at the same time. 345 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,040 That's basically where it all comes together and why some people within the UFO community 346 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,800 believe this all is real. 347 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,080 Okay, I can see it. 348 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,080 I can see it. 349 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Anyhow, during this time, like Majestic 12 gets talked about a lot. 350 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,400 This is after 1987. 351 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:12,000 It ends up on radio shows being talked about and an FBI agent in Dallas hears this and 352 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,040 this is all on the vaults.fbi.gov in official documents that you can look at. 353 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,520 Chelsea, I'm just going to send you this so that you can look at the later pages of it. 354 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,080 Chelsea, I'm going to say some things and then I want you to turn to a particular page. 355 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,080 Okay. 356 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,160 This is from a document from the FBI. 357 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,640 Dallas notes that within the last six weeks, there has been local publicity regarding Operation 358 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,680 Majestic 12 with at least two appearances on a local radio talk show. 359 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,280 Disessing Majestic 12's operation, the individuals involved in the government's attempt to keep 360 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,280 it all secret. 361 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,920 It is unknown if this is all part of a publicity campaign. 362 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Redacted from OSI advises that quote, Operation Blue Book and quote mentions in the document 363 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,840 on page four did exist. 364 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,400 Dallas realizes that the purported document is over 35 years old but does not know if 365 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,000 it has been properly declassified. 366 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,080 A bureau is requested to discern if the document is still classified. 367 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:10,720 Dallas will hold any investigation in advance until further direction from FBI headquarters. 368 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,200 So somebody was listening to crazy radio talk shows and they said, huh, this guy's talking 369 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,760 about talk secret documents. 370 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,320 Are these actually top secret? 371 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,000 Like should they be talking about this? 372 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Because if they are top secret, these guys are breaking laws. 373 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,240 So the FBI wants to look into whether or not these are top secret documents. 374 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,520 Chelsea, I want you to go to page four of that document I've sent you. 375 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,080 Okay, magic eyes only. 376 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,080 Bogus. 377 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,080 Yeah. 378 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,600 So this is the document I just read to everybody in the FBI files vault over every page of 379 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,960 this document, which by the way, I never said at the start, but it says TC secret magic 380 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,240 eyes only at the very top. 381 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:52,360 Prominently written in like super big black ink is bogus on every single page. 382 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:53,360 Yeah. 383 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:54,360 And it's not typed. 384 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,640 It's like written over all the typing. 385 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,640 Yeah. 386 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:58,640 Bogus. 387 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,640 This is the official response. 388 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,880 This communication is classified and its entirety reference Dallas Airtel dated October 389 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,040 25th, 1988 reference Airtel requested that the FBI HQ determine if the document enclosed 390 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,960 by reference Airtel was classified or not. 391 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,760 The Office of Special Investigations, US Air Force, advised on December 30th, 1988 that 392 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,560 the document was fabricated. 393 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,560 These of that document have been distributed to various parts of the United States. 394 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,200 Document is completely bogus. 395 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,440 Dallas is to close captioned investigation. 396 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,080 And then there's another page of this that says, note, this advises Dallas that the 397 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,920 document was bogus and the case should be closed. 398 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:38,440 That's the official response from the, this is clearly just made up, not a real document. 399 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,480 That's a good point that if it was real, it would be illegal to be talking about it. 400 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,280 Well, to be displaying it and making copies and sending it to people. 401 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,280 Yes. 402 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,040 So next part I found interesting and it has to do a little bit with the FBI story. 403 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,200 It was people trying to debunk the FBI story behind it. 404 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,680 And I actually find it actually gives a little bit of weight and I talked about it a little 405 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,920 bit in the last episode. 406 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,000 I think it comes up really well right here. 407 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,080 Gerald Haynes, historian of the National Reconnaissance Office and his controversial 408 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:12,760 paper CIA's role in the study of UFOs 1947 to 1990 says the following, an agency analyst 409 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,240 from the life science division of OSI and OSRWR officially devoted a small amount of 410 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,720 their time to issues relating to the UFOs. 411 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,320 These included counterintelligence concerns that the Soviet and the KGB were using US 412 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,600 citizens and UFO groups to obtain information on sensitive US weapon development programs 413 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,240 such as stealth aircrafts. 414 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,440 There's further evidence too that the FBI has in its archives more information pertaining 415 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,000 to MJ12 and has surfaced into the public domain thus far. 416 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,920 On November 16th, 1988, the UFO researcher Larry Bryant wrote to miss Hope Nakamura of 417 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:50,360 the Center for National Security Studies and advised her that in then recent conversations 418 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:55,280 with Bill Moore, he had been informed of Moore's efforts to secure the release of the FBI's 419 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:56,280 file on him. 420 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,200 The bulk of the FBI's dossier on Moore was being withheld for reasons directly affecting 421 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,520 the national security of the United States of America. 422 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,640 So while this is going on, they have a file which amounted to no less than 55 pages on 423 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,760 Bill Moore, which they can't release. 424 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,600 All this information was classified as espionage. 425 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,360 This information can't be released. 426 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:24,760 My theory on this is that they believe Bill Moore is being fed absolute bullshit by spies 427 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,480 from Russia. 428 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,720 Disinformation from the Cold War. 429 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,720 And that is my belief. 430 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,600 And I also might add at this point that they must know that his plan is backfiring for 431 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,480 him to find out the why, so they're like, well, we're going to why you right back and 432 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,560 they're going to make files of 55 pages. 433 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,240 But no, that's, I believe, why it can't be released is because they are monitoring spies 434 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,720 and they don't want them to know. 435 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,400 That's a really good point. 436 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,760 So he's being fed information from somebody, particularly like this eight pages of information 437 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,080 which are clearly fake and the government knows this and they're saying like, well, 438 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,680 why is it labeled espionage in these articles I was reading? 439 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,880 I was like, well, it's because it's coming from the Soviet Union to spread misinformation. 440 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,520 That's at least my understanding of it. 441 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,200 I think you're completely right. 442 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,760 So if you take a look back and I mean, who knows if that's really, I mean, that makes 443 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,360 the most sense to be honest, but not only would he be being fed by the US government, 444 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:33,360 he's also being fed information from other fucking government. 445 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,360 Yeah. 446 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:35,360 What a guy. 447 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,160 This is like near the end of the Cold War two where there's spies, there's still spies 448 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,360 doing this and Russia does this too. 449 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,760 So much of the conspiracy world, particularly what the Russian-Ukrainian war going on is 450 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,440 disinformation like this being leaked out. 451 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,440 That's my theory on it. 452 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,360 Why that's not being disclosed and why a very simple answer for everything. 453 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,360 Yeah. 454 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:01,920 Well, anyhow, let's bring it all back to earth now because this is the answer for it all. 455 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,440 I believe sorry for those of you that were believing Bill Moore brought out real information 456 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,440 here. 457 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,160 This is from that Roswell website I was talking about earlier. 458 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:15,040 The term MJ12 was apparently first used on a once page, a secret teletype message dated 459 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:21,360 November 17th, 1980, which Richard Doty provides to Bill Moore in early 1981. 460 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,160 Who in turn shows a copy of the telegram to researcher, Brett Sparks and Cal Corf on 461 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,160 January 17th, 1980. 462 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,160 I believe the dates are going to be wrong on that. 463 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,160 That would be 1982. 464 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,080 Doty at the time was an agent of Air Force Intelligence who had earlier admitted to forging 465 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,800 other UFO documents. 466 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,680 At the time, Chanderra received the film canister. 467 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,920 Doty was stationed at Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. 468 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,440 The envelope the film arrived in had a postmark on it. 469 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Because postmarks are two specific regions, we know that the postmark is from Albuquerque, 470 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,240 New Mexico. 471 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,240 Can't be that. 472 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,480 Well, he can be that, dumb. 473 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,840 Robert Todd, a very determined competent UFO researcher, investigated this teletype 474 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,040 that was just described above that Doty gave to Bill Moore and showed that it was a hoax 475 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040 in early 1983. 476 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,480 We next hear of the term when Bill Moore approaches former National Enquirer reporter 477 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,160 Bob Pratt in January of 1982. 478 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,480 Pratt was asked to collaborate on a novel with Bill Moore. 479 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,440 The working title of the novel was to be Magic 12. 480 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,560 Consider that the alleged MJ12 documents would not be leaked to Chanderra until 1984, and 481 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240 we see the seas of suspicion starting to grow. 482 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,440 According to Friedman, among others, Moore had suggested as early as 1982 that he wanted 483 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,480 to create Roswell documents, thinking that it might open doors that were closed. 484 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,160 This is from the Truth about UFO crash at Roswell by Randall and Schmidt. 485 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,400 This was two years before the alleged MJ12 documents were mailed to Chanderra, Moore's 486 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,160 friend in 1984. 487 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:57,200 Then in 1983, Moore sought Brad Sparks' reaction to a plan of his to create counterfeit 488 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,560 government documents. 489 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,600 Moore told Sparks he believed that counterfeit documents could be used to induce former military 490 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,800 officers to speak about what the government really knew about the UFOs and the coverups. 491 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,160 Sparks suggested strongly that Moore not do this. 492 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,880 Sparks was so upset that he called Stanton Freeman and found to his shock that Friedman 493 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,960 thought that hoaxing of such documents was a good idea. 494 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,400 A year before the alleged MJ12 documents were mailed to Chanderra, Moore's friend in 1984. 495 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:33,840 To anyone of a suspicious mind, this activity of Moore's might look really suspicious. 496 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,000 Moore and Chanderra and Friedman altered the appearance of the MJ12 documents in their 497 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,080 first release of the Focus newsletter to give the appearance of government censorship, too. 498 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,800 So they put black marks on it to make it look like it was... 499 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,800 What the fuck? 500 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,560 They later had to admit that they did it themselves. 501 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,360 He gives a presentation at an ON UFO symposium proceedings and it's called MJ12 and Filled 502 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,360 Class. 503 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,040 The facts by Bill Moore and Stanton Freeman include a reproduction of the mail packet 504 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,000 addressed to Jamie Chanderra. 505 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,800 The bottom of the postmark was blackened out on all three postmarks. 506 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,960 This would have shown the state and city that the mail packet was mailed from. 507 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:15,120 In the presentation, Moore and Friedman stated the package, quote, bore no return address. 508 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,080 In reality, there was a return address. 509 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,040 Albuquerque, New Mexico. 510 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,320 Guess who lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico? 511 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,880 Richard Doty, associate of Bill Moore. 512 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,360 As the address had been shown, people might have started checking more on Doty, but Moore 513 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,240 and Friedman stated that the package bore no return address. 514 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,760 Oh my god. 515 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,240 Aside from the suspicious origins of Majestic 12 papers, there are several problems with 516 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,280 the documents themselves. 517 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,640 Military documents were formatted using strict guidelines, including the structure of the 518 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,640 dates. 519 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,040 At the time the Majestic 12 briefings were alleged to have been written, the format was 520 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,320 day month year. 521 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,720 No commas, no place holding zeros. 522 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,160 But the dates in the MJ12 documents use a day month comma year format, and this brief 523 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,120 was supposedly generated at the very highest level of military, a level that would not 524 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,920 have made such fundamental errors in format. 525 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,920 So the dates are all wrong. 526 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,920 Hill encoders rank. 527 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,520 The document refers to Admiral Hill encoder, when his true rank was rear admiral. 528 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,040 In casual speech or among civilians, this error might occur, but a military man would 529 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,800 never make such an error if it was the military that wrote the brief. 530 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,360 Burbage, two terms were used in the document that were not in use in the 50s. 531 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,040 The term media, to refer to the press, did not appear until the 1970s, and likewise the 532 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,640 term impacted. 533 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,840 The Cutler Twining Memo is stamped top secret restricted information. 534 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,360 There was no such classification in 1954. 535 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,800 That document that they found in the records could not have existed because the stamping 536 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,240 on it did not exist at the time. 537 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,640 This did not come into effect until the Nixon arrow introduced this classification. 538 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,200 The code word, magic, that they also use instead of Majestic 12. 539 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,560 This appears to be the code name assigned to this project. 540 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,120 However, this would constitute a major violation of the code naming scheme used by military 541 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,040 for well over a decade. 542 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,720 Secure projects are assigned a code name from a one-time use list that is shared by all 543 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,500 parts of the military and civilian government bodies. 544 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:13,640 Just prior to World War II, the code name magic with a G was assigned to the effort to 545 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,000 break the high security Japanese diplomatic code. 546 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:23,000 The project was still under wraps of top secret in the early 1950s, so it could not be reused. 547 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,440 Yet here we have the term magic with a J being applied to Majestic 12, an assignment that 548 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,320 clearly could not have happened. 549 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,120 NJ12 proponents point to the different spelling, but the code list was constructed to avoid 550 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,680 phonetic similarities that could cause confusion in oral communications. 551 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,960 It would appear that the authors of the Majestic 12 briefing papers were conscious of the newly 552 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,480 declassified story of magic operations when this was concocted. 553 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,640 There are several other points that one might accurately call minor, but when these errors 554 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,440 are together in one set of documents, the coincidence is level red lines. 555 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,040 The documents look really fake. 556 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,840 I gather she's my general... 557 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,440 It's a really good coincidence that they've refined that, one in the archives, but it seems 558 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,240 to be a very convenient plant. 559 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,480 Yeah, all the timelines check out. 560 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,480 Did they mention... 561 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,840 Yeah, the timelines check out though, so that's good. 562 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,280 But you know, Bill Moore also apparently shows a repeated track record of wanting to fake 563 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:21,320 documents before this, which actually gives this guy's character a little bit pizzazz. 564 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,200 His obby is forging. 565 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,440 But I'm gonna leave this off, of course, to balance it all out. 566 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,200 Richard Doty hasn't had a chance to defend himself. 567 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,200 And Chelsea, every single time I think somebody has a little bit of credibility, it just gets 568 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,480 hit a little bit. 569 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:42,480 So Mystery Wire, George Knapp interviewed Richard Doty in 2019 about this. 570 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,280 Okay, I'm scared. 571 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,480 This is what George Knapp asked them. 572 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,280 You had these battles with UFO people for years, and they accuse you of things, and I'm paraphrasing 573 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,880 this part of it, such as forging the documents and sending them off for Majestic 12. 574 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,280 This is Richard Doty's response. 575 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,760 Yes, in 1987, I was investigated by the FBI for the MJ-12 documents. 576 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,280 They claimed the UFO researchers claimed I released them. 577 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,280 I created them. 578 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,400 I went through an investigation by the FBI. 579 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,400 I was cleared. 580 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,400 I took a polygraph test. 581 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,400 I was cleared. 582 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,240 And again, in 89, a different aspect of it became public. 583 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:17,120 The FBI called me and the same agent who investigated me the first time said, quote, 584 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,920 I hate to do this again, but I need to talk to you about this end quote. 585 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,880 And I was cleared, obviously, on that one. 586 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,720 And then a third time that actually happened when Bob Collins wrote this book, exempt from 587 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:31,800 disclosure, he put something in that book, and they thought that information came from 588 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,800 me. 589 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,400 I showed up at my doorstep with search warrants and took my hard drive from my computer, and 590 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,240 they looked at it and they came back later and told me it was clear. 591 00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:42,840 Didn't contain anything and that they paid me $600 to get another hard drive. 592 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,280 They didn't give my hard drive back and they did find out who released that to Robert Collins. 593 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:53,080 That was somebody out of Los Alamos and they went after that guy, but I didn't do it. 594 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,920 So that's his argument is the FBI came and talked to me, took a polygraph test and turned 595 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:57,960 out he didn't do it. 596 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,680 There's nothing from the FBI about it. 597 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,800 But if Richard Doty works for the worked for the Air Force, I don't know what the fuck 598 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,160 he's doing now, but he would have the clearance to be faking documents though. 599 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,160 I don't know. 600 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,680 Doty doesn't seem to do that much work. 601 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,680 Like when we're looking at the Serpo stuff or maybe he wrote it where it's like, oh 602 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,600 yeah, and everything looks outside on Serpo like Adobe as if somebody in New Mexico could 603 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,160 look out the window and see the same thing and they poop in cat boxes. 604 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,480 Just like my cat. 605 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,800 We would have known enough about what a cop secret document at the time he was in government 606 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,200 would look like or should look like. 607 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,720 Yeah, but we've also seen Doty be very careless. 608 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:39,720 Exactly. 609 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:45,260 And this is him being careless possibly speculation on my part, but he's saying, oh yeah, top 610 00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:49,880 secret classification and things like that probably were the same as when I was in government 611 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,440 and how you write dates and all these other things. 612 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,200 So he makes small errors along the ways as to how the system would look at his time during 613 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,200 government. 614 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,440 Which also make it look like a clear forgery. 615 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,080 And also Chelsea, something I learned during the research I was gathering. 616 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,200 Did you know that Doty was a consultant for the X files? 617 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,200 What? 618 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,200 Yeah. 619 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,200 He was a consultant for episodes of the X files from 1993 to 1996. 620 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,200 He's left with this guy. 621 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,200 No, I didn't. 622 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,720 We did a whole episode on Richard Doty that never came up. 623 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,720 Allegedly, he might have written an episode under a pseudonym too. 624 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:27,880 Thank God. 625 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,280 But this isn't a Richard Doty episode. 626 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,440 This is a Bill Moore, Majestic 12 episode. 627 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,600 And I think that gives you enough information about Bill Moore and his involvement in Majestic 628 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,600 12. 629 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,780 It all might be above board, but man, are there some suspicious parts and taking in its entirety 630 00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:43,920 with our Bill Moore episodes. 631 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,880 It's really sketchy. 632 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:51,080 And not only that, from our last episode where he's like, oh yeah, like I'm not really doing 633 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,400 any of the bad stuff. 634 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,000 Like I'm just kind of a helpless bystander that's going to collect some information 635 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,240 to like learning. 636 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,960 No, he talked a lot about wanting to forge documents to get real information to come 637 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:01,960 out. 638 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,360 As if it's just innocent. 639 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,640 Yeah. 640 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,040 But that's all I have for that. 641 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,560 Any questions on it, Chelsea? 642 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,240 I don't have any questions on that. 643 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:17,040 I think we're getting closer and closer to potentially remembering who Bill Moore is 644 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,160 when we're tying it to all of this stuff. 645 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,920 I mean, ask us maybe in a couple of episodes. 646 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,240 Maybe we'll put that on there. 647 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:24,480 Surprise who's Bill Moore. 648 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,480 Yeah. 649 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,520 No, I think that was, I don't want to say great. 650 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,520 It was something. 651 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:36,000 But this links him to three of the like most prominent stories in ufology, the Roswell, 652 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,680 Majestic 12 and the Philadelphia experiment. 653 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,200 Three things that most shaped ufology in the 1980s on this. 654 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,680 It's pretty messed up, isn't it? 655 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:44,680 Yeah. 656 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,240 But that's where we're going to leave you for now with Bill Moore, the cliffhanger of 657 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:54,800 a lot of lies and a stopping of book writing, despite the fact that he really should have 658 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,800 written a book on Majestic 12. 659 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,040 That would have gotten him some money. 660 00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,040 What's going on here? 661 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,720 I feel like Chelsea's got some information in the next episode about why everything weirdly 662 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,200 stops after this. 663 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,560 I guess we're going to have to wait seven more days to find out. 664 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,560 That's in podcast time. 665 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,320 It could be whatever amount of time in your time over there. 666 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,960 You people, the listener. 667 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,960 It's not when you really... 668 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,080 Anyhow, I guess it's a choose your own adventure. 669 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,360 So long as you're following the same time as us. 670 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:24,360 Yeah. 671 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,720 You don't see any parting thoughts. 672 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:28,160 I'm excited to see where it goes next week. 673 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,880 I'm sure in the end he comes up clean and everything just kind of results. 674 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:34,880 Yeah. 675 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:35,880 It's all in like, Bayesian paint. 676 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,880 Yeah. 677 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,880 As he really wants. 678 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:46,560 There's a reasonable explanation for everything and that's why Bill Moore is thought of such 679 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,560 a stand up guy in the UFO community today. 680 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,560 And remembers. 681 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,560 Yeah. 682 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,560 That's why there's a statue. 683 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:53,560 Yeah. 684 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,400 Anyhow, we will finish us up next week. 685 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,360 I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea. 686 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,720 We are Journey to the Fringe. 687 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,000 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 688 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,000 Bye. 689 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,240 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 690 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:14,280 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe or follow 691 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,560 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 692 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:23,520 Also please, if possible, leave a five star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 693 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:34,760 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 694 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:41,680 us that we're wrong and terrible either way, please send us an email at journeytothefringe.com. 695 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:56,080 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.