From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, a place best viewed from afar, like say, through
a podcast.
We are your natural medium for this, hosts Taylor and Chelsea.
And today we are going to be talking about our old friend who Chelsea tells me I cannot
call Billy, for that gives him too much pizzazz.
Too much flavor.
Just too much flavor.
I think I described him well in the first episode where they could replace beige on paint shelves
everywhere with the name Bill Moore and it would just give you the best idea of what's
in that can.
It's true.
Anyhow, today I get to take a crack at this guy.
Having learned all the stuff that Chelsea has talked about so far, we are going to look
at the story of Majestic 12.
This is something that you may have seen before.
It goes by several names, MJ12 and Magic12.
All that more or less the same thing.
We're going to be looking at one particular part of it.
We could do another episode in the future, but from basically this story, we're going
to be looking at it from how it pertains to Bill Moore.
Now for this, I looked at a few websites.
I usually start out with the Wikipedia article from there.
I've also looked at noufors.com, Roswellfiles.com, The Huffington Post, Mystery Wire.
So with that, I think we're in a good spot to tell you the story about Majestic 12, where
it comes from, what comes out with it, and then the reception of it and kind of how we
look back on it at least from a critical lens.
Chelsea, are you ready for this?
I'm excited to hear, especially with Bill Moore goggles.
They're so beige.
It's beige in here.
Looking at the world through Bill Moore goggles.
Seems boring, but I feel like it'll be a good episode.
This story begins in 1984 and not with a man by the name of Bill Moore, but a documentary
producer by the name of Jamie Chanderra.
Now Jamie Chanderra is mining his own business in his own home, reading a magazine when a
mysterious envelope drops through his mail slot.
There is no return address on it.
There is only postmarks in the top corner and he opens up this envelope and it contains
a role of undeveloped film.
Now, not a ufologist himself, and coincidentally about to have dinner with a man by the name
of William Moore, who we from here on out will be calling Bill Moore.
He said, you know what, I should bring this to dinner with Bill Moore because outside
of this, I don't know what the fuck we're going to talk about.
The guy just enjoys his steak.
So wet.
We got to talk about something else.
He's always going out for dinner that guy.
He does strike me as the kind of guy who does not know how to cook.
And that would be a character trait that you could build off of.
Basically, for as far as Bill Moore goes.
Yeah, so he brings this and Moore at this time had made a name for himself.
There's no revelations out there about what's happened to Benowitz that's still going on
or going to be happening in the future from here.
Then he several years before this had the Roswell incident come out in 1980.
And because of this, people know him at least in his circles as somebody who gets reached
out to by insiders.
So Chandra thought this would be a great thing from time to time.
Bill was getting various official looking papers passing through him.
The implications being that someone within the US government military intelligence community
wish to make available information on UFOs that would otherwise have remained forever
outside the public domain.
Basically he had constant access as he believed to government intelligence and personnel.
And because of this, his friends and Jamie Chandra, I believe as at least a good acquaintance
would know this.
And this is why he brought the role of film to him to talk about.
I don't know whether or not they had dinner plans outside of this or if it was set up
for this.
But anyhow, this is how the story goes.
Once Bill heard Chandra's strange tale about receiving this, he ditched the dinner and
went to his house to develop the images on this role of film.
Oh, that's serious.
He also might not have wanted to pay for dinner.
I don't know for sure.
I don't know if he's that high.
No, he apparently did.
I don't know about the other side.
It doesn't come up from there.
The film, when developed, showed images of eight pages of documents that appeared to
be a briefing describing something called Operation Majestic 12.
And this is what these documents say.
These clearly identify themselves as top secret or above top secret and not to be disclosed.
Operation Majestic 12 is a top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible
directly and only to the president of the United States.
Operations of the project are carried out under the control of Majestic 12 in brackets
Magic 12 Group, which was established by special classified executive orders of President
Truman on the 24th of September, 1947, upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary
James Forrestal.
Pictures of the Majestic 12 group are designated as follows, and I added a little bit here
just to give you context as to who these 12 people are.
We're just going to read right through these documents because they're fairly straightforward
and pretty short.
The 12 identified as part of Majestic 12 are Rear Admiral Roscoe Hillencoder, first director
of the Central Intelligence, Dr. Vannevar Bush, chairman of the Joint Research and Development
Board, advisor to the president and key player in the atomic bomb development, James V.
Forrestal.
Forrest, U.S. Secretary of Defense, Nathan F. Twining, commander of the Air Materiel
Command at right field, and later chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S.'s
highest military position, General Hoyt Vandenberg, chief of military intelligence during World
War II and second director of Central Intelligence, Dr. Detlev Bronk, biophysicist, head of the
National Academy of Science and chairman of the Medical Advisory Board of the Atomic Energy
Committee, Dr. Jeremy Hunsaker, renowned aircraft designer and chairman of the National
Advisory Committee on Aeronautics, Rear Admiral Sidney Sauer, first director of the Central
Intelligence, which I think was already claimed higher up.
Yes, don't know why that happens, but this is a description from a website, so this is
the only description I could find.
Appointed first executive secretary of National Security Council in 1947, Gordon Gray, assistant
secretary of the Army, became the National Security Advisor and director of CIA's Psychological
Strategy Board, Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Harvard Professor of Astrophysics and Debunker of
UFOs, Major General Robert Montague, head of the Special Weapons Project at the Atomic
Energy Commission at Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Dr. Lloyd V. Brickiner, executive secretary
of the Joint Research and Development Board, member of the CIA-funded UFO Committee in the
1950s.
So that's the group, and this is what happens here, the story behind Majestic 12 after this.
On the 24th of June 1947, a civilian pilot flying over the Cascade Mountains in the state
of Washington observed nine flying discs shaped aircrafts traveling in formation at a high
rate of speed.
Although this was not the first known sighting of such objects, it was the first to gain
widespread attention in the public media.
Hundreds of reporting sightings of similar objects followed.
Many of these came from highly credible military and civilian sources, and these reports resulted
in the independent efforts of several different elements of the military to ascertain the
nature of the purpose of these objects in the interests of national defense.
A number of witnesses were interviewed, and there were several unsuccessful attempts to
utilize aircrafts in efforts to pursue reported discs in flight.
Public reaction bordered on near hysteria at the times.
And just so we are still on the same page, this is still the documents on the film.
In spite of these efforts, little of substance was learned about the objects until a local
rancher reported that one had crashed in a remote region of New Mexico located approximately
75 miles northwest of Roswell Air Force Base.
On July 7th, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure recovery of the wreckage of
this object for scientific study.
During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance discovered that four small
human-like beings had apparently ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded.
These had fallen on Earth about two miles east of the wreckage site, all four were
dead and badly decomposed due to actions by predators and exposure to the elements during
the approximately one-week time period which had elapsed before their discovery.
A special scientific team took charge of removing these bodies for study.
The wreckage of the craft was also removed to several different locations.
Civilian and military witnesses in the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given
the effective cover story that the object had been a misguided weather research balloon.
So the Roswell story.
Can I ask where specifically this happened?
That actually, it says C attachment B and C attachment B for a lot of this.
This is in Roswell.
No, I don't actually get into it because C attachment B and C are referenced in here.
He doesn't have the attachments.
He just has these eight pages.
It's not Aztec, New Mexico, is it?
You just wait right here.
Okay.
They covert analytical effort organized by General Twining and Dr. Bush acting on the
direct orders of the president resulted in a preliminary consensus that the disk was
most likely a short range of reconnaissance craft.
This conclusion was based for the most part on a craft size and the apparent lack of any
identifiable provisions.
A similar analysis of the four dead occupants were arranged by Dr. Bronk.
It was the tentative conclusion of this group that although these creatures are human like
in appearance, biological and evolutionary processes responsible for their development
has apparently been quite different from those observed and postulated in Homo sapiens.
Dr. Bronk's T has suggested the term extraterrestrial biological entities or EBS as seen in Serpo
be adopted as the standard term of reference.
They call them EBS.
E-B-E-S.
What the fuck, baby?
The adopted is a standard term of reference for these creatures until such as terms, such
as time as more definitive designations can be agreed upon.
Since it is virtually certain that these crafts do not originate any country on earth, considerable
speculation is centered around what their point of origin may be and how they get here.
Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists most notably Dr. Menzel consider
it more likely that they were dealing with beings from another solar system entirely.
Numerous examples of what appear to be a form of writing was found in the wreckage.
Efforts to decipher these have remained largely unsuccessful.
Equally unsuccessful has been the efforts to determine the methods of propulsion or the
nature of the transmission of the power source involved.
Which along these lines has been complicated by the complete absence of identifiable wings,
propellers, jets, or other conventional methods of propulsion and guidance, as well as total
lack of metallic wing, vacuum tubes, or similar recognizable electronic components.
It is assumed that the propulsion unit was completely destroyed by the explosion which
caused the crash.
A need for as much additional information as possible about these crafts, their performance
characteristics and their purposes, led to the undertaking known as the US Air Force
Project SIGN in December of 1947.
In order to preserve security, liaison between SIGN and Majestic 12 was limited to two individuals
within the Intelligence Division of Air Material Command, whose role was to pass along certain
types of information through these channels.
SIGN evolved into Project Grudge in December of 1948.
The operation is currently being conducted under the code name Blue Book, with liaison
maintained through the Air Force, who is the head of the project.
In December 6th of 1950, a second object, probably of similar origin, impacted the earth
at high speed in El Indio, Guerrero, area of Texas Mexican border, after following a
long trajectory through the atmosphere.
By the time a search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost completely incinerated.
Such materials, as could be recovered, was transported to the AEC facility at Sandia,
New Mexico for study.
First the one I thought was the crash you were talking about, but it clearly is not.
That one's in Texas.
Oh, okay.
But yeah, we have one in Raw as well that they talk about, and then the one in Texas
that they talked about.
Okay.
This is the last paragraph here.
Implications for the national security are of continuing importance in that the motives
and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown.
In addition, a significant upsurge in the surveillance activity of these crafts, beginning
in May and continuing through the autumn of this year, has caused considerable concern
that the new development may be imminent.
Is for these reasons, as well as for the obvious international technological considerations,
and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic 12 group remains
of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should
continue without interruption into the new administration.
At the same time, contingency plan MJ-1949-04P-78, top secret eyes only, should be held in continued
readiness, should the need to make a public announcement present itself.
And then one more page is attached, and this is a letter from Truman himself, the President.
The White House, Washington, September 24th, 1947.
Memorandum for the Secretary of Defense, Dear Secretary Forestel.
As per our recent conversations on this matter, you are hereby authorized to proceed with
all due speed and caution upon your undertakings.
Hereafter this matter shall be referred to only as Operation Majestic 12.
Despite the fact in the other document, it's also called a Brackets' Magic 12.
It continues to be my feeling that any future consideration relative to the ultimate disposition
of this matter should rest solely with the office of the President, following appropriate
discussions with yourself, Dr. Bush and the Director of Central Intelligence, Harry Truman.
And that is what's on that roll.
They're exciting.
They're probably peeing their pants with excitement.
Yeah, and I don't think it's actually come up so far in the story.
Well, it came up a little bit, sorry.
Stanton Friedman is involved at this point here too.
So Bill is friends with Stanton.
Sorry, that comes up in a bit.
But anyhow, Bill rushes home, develops a film, and sees that it's pictures of these
top secret documents and gets so excited.
He's basically peeing himself with excitement, I'm sure.
So from here, his research begins, and he brings in Stanton Friedman and his friend Jamie,
and they start combing for any more information they can find about Majestic 12.
At this point, Bill receives some anonymous messages, one of them being a postcard delivered
to Bill Moore in 1985.
It is postmarked New Zealand, and it suggests to him to research newly declassified documents
at the U.S. National Archives.
Moore and Jamie Schindera do this, and they found a memo confirming the existence of MJ-12,
written by Eisenhower's Special Assistant for National Security, Robert Cutler, and
addressed to Nathan Twining, one of the MJ-12 members, the U.S. Air Force Chiefs of SAF.
And this is the document that they find.
It's called the Cutler Twining Memo.
Memorandum for General Twining.
Subject, NSC-MJ-12, Special Studies Project.
The President has decided that the MJ-12 SSP briefing should take place during the already
scheduled White House meeting of July 16th, rather than following it as previously intended.
More precise arrangements will be explained to you upon arrival.
Please alter your plans accordingly.
Your concurrence in the above change of arrangements is assumed.
End of document, they find.
And this is accompanied by a note from Stanton Freedmen.
This document was found after a few days of searching in the just declassified boxes of
record group 341 in mid-1985 by Jamie Schindera and William Moore.
Stanton Freedmen has discovered during a visit to the National Archives in March of 1985
that the RG, which is the record group, was in the process of being declassification reviewed.
Items were received hinting that checking the file would be a good idea.
This memo clearly has nothing to do with the classification review, which involved many
teams of four, each working for a few weeks in a location where they were able to bring
in notes, files, briefcases, etc.
The items in its original form is a carbon of dictation's onion skin by Foxpaper.
I don't know what that means.
It is discovered around the edges.
My best bet for the actual author is James S. Lay, who was Executive Secretary of NSC
and worked very, very closely with Cutler and met, quote, off the record, end quote,
with Ike at the White House on July 14, 1954.
The mark through classification is random.
So they basically, they go in search, they find this one document that also proves that
that what they received in those pictures wasn't bullshit.
So they're getting very excited.
Moore, Freedmen, and Schindera worked carefully for two and a half years.
So they get this information in 1984.
They're working hard and they're attempting to determine the authenticity of everything
involved and they think that they have that authenticity through this thing they find
in the archives.
Then, May 31, 1987, a man by the name of Timothy Good, just completely unrelated to this, a
British ufologist, comes out with a book called Above Top Secret, the Worldwide UFO Cover-Up,
and he claims to be in possession of 1950s-era UFO documents.
The documents purport to reveal a secret committee of 12 supposedly formed in 1947 by an executive
order by US President Harry S. Truman and explain how the crash of alien spacecraft at Roswell
in July of 1947 has been concealed, how the recovered alien technology could be exploited,
and how the US should engage with the extraterrestrials in the future.
With Timothy Good's release, it was decided that the best course of action for these three
investigators, Bill, Jamie, and Stanton, was to follow suit and they just decided to release
all the information they have at a UFO symposium.
That's basically the story of where everything comes from for Majestic 12.
First talks about it are with Jamie Chanderra.
Do we know why?
Bill gets it, develops it.
No, completely unknown.
It's completely anonymous how it was dropped off.
No idea why he got it and just so happens that Bill Moore is a friend of the guy, so
he gives it to Bill Moore.
Lot of coincidences.
Before this, the guy was not in the UFO community.
He was just a producer of movies, documentaries.
Weird.
That's weird.
He did know Bill Moore for some reason.
So they release this information to the public, go on a big talking tour about it, and it's
polarizing, but a lot of people in the UFO community accept this as true.
That Majestic 12 is a thing.
It's a group of 12 people who throttle all UFO information to the public.
Soon distrust and suspicion led to disagreement within the ufology community over the authenticity
of the MJ12 documents.
And Moore was accused of taking part in an elaborate hoax while other ufologists did
be punkers such as Philip J. Klass were accused of being disinformation agents.
This is part of it that fully believes the story of Majestic 12 that I'm going to read
through.
Because of the MJ12 documents are on film, the original paper or ink cannot be analyzed.
However, there are many factual details that can be checked, such as the background of
the 12 members of the committee, the dates of meetings, the style and format of similar
documents, and the validity of the signatures.
Clearly, MJ12 had an all star cast as well as Secretary of Defense, Forestel.
There were the first three directors of Central Intelligence, an Air Force General, an Army
General, the Secretary of the Army, and five of the US's most influential scientists.
This was the cream of the US's military, scientific and intelligence communities.
If there was to be a top secret government group investigating UFOs, this would have
been it.
The only member of this list who seems out of place is Dr. Donald Menzel, a Harvard University
astronomer.
He had written three anti-UFO books and many papers debunking flying saucers.
All but Menzel were known to have high level security clearances and because of this, many
researchers were inclined to think that the MJ12 documents were bogus.
However, in April of 1986, Stanton Friedman was allowed to access Menzel's papers at
the Harvard University Archives.
He learned that Menzel had a 30 year association with the National Security Agency and that
he had also had a top secret ultra clearance with the CIA.
It has also been proved that Menzel made numerous visits to New Mexico in 1947 and 48 paid for
by government expenses.
The earliest reference to Majestic is in the memo supposedly sent by Truman to Forestel.
The memo, which names the President's Science Advisor, Vannevar Bush, is dated September
24th, 1947.
This happens to be the only day between May and December on which Truman met with Bush.
He also met Bush that day and the date is also significant in that it was the day after
Nathan Twine and Commanding General of the Error Material Command sent a secret memo
to the Pentagon relating to firing discs.
In it, Twining states quote, the phenomenon reported as something real and not visionary
or fictitious.
So there are dates do seem to line up and the people do seem to line up and being in
places at the same time.
That's basically where it all comes together and why some people within the UFO community
believe this all is real.
Okay, I can see it.
I can see it.
Anyhow, during this time, like Majestic 12 gets talked about a lot.
This is after 1987.
It ends up on radio shows being talked about and an FBI agent in Dallas hears this and
this is all on the vaults.fbi.gov in official documents that you can look at.
Chelsea, I'm just going to send you this so that you can look at the later pages of it.
Chelsea, I'm going to say some things and then I want you to turn to a particular page.
Okay.
This is from a document from the FBI.
Dallas notes that within the last six weeks, there has been local publicity regarding Operation
Majestic 12 with at least two appearances on a local radio talk show.
Disessing Majestic 12's operation, the individuals involved in the government's attempt to keep
it all secret.
It is unknown if this is all part of a publicity campaign.
Redacted from OSI advises that quote, Operation Blue Book and quote mentions in the document
on page four did exist.
Dallas realizes that the purported document is over 35 years old but does not know if
it has been properly declassified.
A bureau is requested to discern if the document is still classified.
Dallas will hold any investigation in advance until further direction from FBI headquarters.
So somebody was listening to crazy radio talk shows and they said, huh, this guy's talking
about talk secret documents.
Are these actually top secret?
Like should they be talking about this?
Because if they are top secret, these guys are breaking laws.
So the FBI wants to look into whether or not these are top secret documents.
Chelsea, I want you to go to page four of that document I've sent you.
Okay, magic eyes only.
Bogus.
Yeah.
So this is the document I just read to everybody in the FBI files vault over every page of
this document, which by the way, I never said at the start, but it says TC secret magic
eyes only at the very top.
Prominently written in like super big black ink is bogus on every single page.
Yeah.
And it's not typed.
It's like written over all the typing.
Yeah.
Bogus.
This is the official response.
This communication is classified and its entirety reference Dallas Airtel dated October
25th, 1988 reference Airtel requested that the FBI HQ determine if the document enclosed
by reference Airtel was classified or not.
The Office of Special Investigations, US Air Force, advised on December 30th, 1988 that
the document was fabricated.
These of that document have been distributed to various parts of the United States.
Document is completely bogus.
Dallas is to close captioned investigation.
And then there's another page of this that says, note, this advises Dallas that the
document was bogus and the case should be closed.
That's the official response from the, this is clearly just made up, not a real document.
That's a good point that if it was real, it would be illegal to be talking about it.
Well, to be displaying it and making copies and sending it to people.
Yes.
So next part I found interesting and it has to do a little bit with the FBI story.
It was people trying to debunk the FBI story behind it.
And I actually find it actually gives a little bit of weight and I talked about it a little
bit in the last episode.
I think it comes up really well right here.
Gerald Haynes, historian of the National Reconnaissance Office and his controversial
paper CIA's role in the study of UFOs 1947 to 1990 says the following, an agency analyst
from the life science division of OSI and OSRWR officially devoted a small amount of
their time to issues relating to the UFOs.
These included counterintelligence concerns that the Soviet and the KGB were using US
citizens and UFO groups to obtain information on sensitive US weapon development programs
such as stealth aircrafts.
There's further evidence too that the FBI has in its archives more information pertaining
to MJ12 and has surfaced into the public domain thus far.
On November 16th, 1988, the UFO researcher Larry Bryant wrote to miss Hope Nakamura of
the Center for National Security Studies and advised her that in then recent conversations
with Bill Moore, he had been informed of Moore's efforts to secure the release of the FBI's
file on him.
The bulk of the FBI's dossier on Moore was being withheld for reasons directly affecting
the national security of the United States of America.
So while this is going on, they have a file which amounted to no less than 55 pages on
Bill Moore, which they can't release.
All this information was classified as espionage.
This information can't be released.
My theory on this is that they believe Bill Moore is being fed absolute bullshit by spies
from Russia.
Disinformation from the Cold War.
And that is my belief.
And I also might add at this point that they must know that his plan is backfiring for
him to find out the why, so they're like, well, we're going to why you right back and
they're going to make files of 55 pages.
But no, that's, I believe, why it can't be released is because they are monitoring spies
and they don't want them to know.
That's a really good point.
So he's being fed information from somebody, particularly like this eight pages of information
which are clearly fake and the government knows this and they're saying like, well,
why is it labeled espionage in these articles I was reading?
I was like, well, it's because it's coming from the Soviet Union to spread misinformation.
That's at least my understanding of it.
I think you're completely right.
So if you take a look back and I mean, who knows if that's really, I mean, that makes
the most sense to be honest, but not only would he be being fed by the US government,
he's also being fed information from other fucking government.
Yeah.
What a guy.
This is like near the end of the Cold War two where there's spies, there's still spies
doing this and Russia does this too.
So much of the conspiracy world, particularly what the Russian-Ukrainian war going on is
disinformation like this being leaked out.
That's my theory on it.
Why that's not being disclosed and why a very simple answer for everything.
Yeah.
Well, anyhow, let's bring it all back to earth now because this is the answer for it all.
I believe sorry for those of you that were believing Bill Moore brought out real information
here.
This is from that Roswell website I was talking about earlier.
The term MJ12 was apparently first used on a once page, a secret teletype message dated
November 17th, 1980, which Richard Doty provides to Bill Moore in early 1981.
Who in turn shows a copy of the telegram to researcher, Brett Sparks and Cal Corf on
January 17th, 1980.
I believe the dates are going to be wrong on that.
That would be 1982.
Doty at the time was an agent of Air Force Intelligence who had earlier admitted to forging
other UFO documents.
At the time, Chanderra received the film canister.
Doty was stationed at Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
The envelope the film arrived in had a postmark on it.
Because postmarks are two specific regions, we know that the postmark is from Albuquerque,
New Mexico.
Can't be that.
Well, he can be that, dumb.
Robert Todd, a very determined competent UFO researcher, investigated this teletype
that was just described above that Doty gave to Bill Moore and showed that it was a hoax
in early 1983.
We next hear of the term when Bill Moore approaches former National Enquirer reporter
Bob Pratt in January of 1982.
Pratt was asked to collaborate on a novel with Bill Moore.
The working title of the novel was to be Magic 12.
Consider that the alleged MJ12 documents would not be leaked to Chanderra until 1984, and
we see the seas of suspicion starting to grow.
According to Friedman, among others, Moore had suggested as early as 1982 that he wanted
to create Roswell documents, thinking that it might open doors that were closed.
This is from the Truth about UFO crash at Roswell by Randall and Schmidt.
This was two years before the alleged MJ12 documents were mailed to Chanderra, Moore's
friend in 1984.
Then in 1983, Moore sought Brad Sparks' reaction to a plan of his to create counterfeit
government documents.
Moore told Sparks he believed that counterfeit documents could be used to induce former military
officers to speak about what the government really knew about the UFOs and the coverups.
Sparks suggested strongly that Moore not do this.
Sparks was so upset that he called Stanton Freeman and found to his shock that Friedman
thought that hoaxing of such documents was a good idea.
A year before the alleged MJ12 documents were mailed to Chanderra, Moore's friend in 1984.
To anyone of a suspicious mind, this activity of Moore's might look really suspicious.
Moore and Chanderra and Friedman altered the appearance of the MJ12 documents in their
first release of the Focus newsletter to give the appearance of government censorship, too.
So they put black marks on it to make it look like it was...
What the fuck?
They later had to admit that they did it themselves.
He gives a presentation at an ON UFO symposium proceedings and it's called MJ12 and Filled
Class.
The facts by Bill Moore and Stanton Freeman include a reproduction of the mail packet
addressed to Jamie Chanderra.
The bottom of the postmark was blackened out on all three postmarks.
This would have shown the state and city that the mail packet was mailed from.
In the presentation, Moore and Friedman stated the package, quote, bore no return address.
In reality, there was a return address.
Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Guess who lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico?
Richard Doty, associate of Bill Moore.
As the address had been shown, people might have started checking more on Doty, but Moore
and Friedman stated that the package bore no return address.
Oh my god.
Aside from the suspicious origins of Majestic 12 papers, there are several problems with
the documents themselves.
Military documents were formatted using strict guidelines, including the structure of the
dates.
At the time the Majestic 12 briefings were alleged to have been written, the format was
day month year.
No commas, no place holding zeros.
But the dates in the MJ12 documents use a day month comma year format, and this brief
was supposedly generated at the very highest level of military, a level that would not
have made such fundamental errors in format.
So the dates are all wrong.
Hill encoders rank.
The document refers to Admiral Hill encoder, when his true rank was rear admiral.
In casual speech or among civilians, this error might occur, but a military man would
never make such an error if it was the military that wrote the brief.
Burbage, two terms were used in the document that were not in use in the 50s.
The term media, to refer to the press, did not appear until the 1970s, and likewise the
term impacted.
The Cutler Twining Memo is stamped top secret restricted information.
There was no such classification in 1954.
That document that they found in the records could not have existed because the stamping
on it did not exist at the time.
This did not come into effect until the Nixon arrow introduced this classification.
The code word, magic, that they also use instead of Majestic 12.
This appears to be the code name assigned to this project.
However, this would constitute a major violation of the code naming scheme used by military
for well over a decade.
Secure projects are assigned a code name from a one-time use list that is shared by all
parts of the military and civilian government bodies.
Just prior to World War II, the code name magic with a G was assigned to the effort to
break the high security Japanese diplomatic code.
The project was still under wraps of top secret in the early 1950s, so it could not be reused.
Yet here we have the term magic with a J being applied to Majestic 12, an assignment that
clearly could not have happened.
NJ12 proponents point to the different spelling, but the code list was constructed to avoid
phonetic similarities that could cause confusion in oral communications.
It would appear that the authors of the Majestic 12 briefing papers were conscious of the newly
declassified story of magic operations when this was concocted.
There are several other points that one might accurately call minor, but when these errors
are together in one set of documents, the coincidence is level red lines.
The documents look really fake.
I gather she's my general...
It's a really good coincidence that they've refined that, one in the archives, but it seems
to be a very convenient plant.
Yeah, all the timelines check out.
Did they mention...
Yeah, the timelines check out though, so that's good.
But you know, Bill Moore also apparently shows a repeated track record of wanting to fake
documents before this, which actually gives this guy's character a little bit pizzazz.
His obby is forging.
But I'm gonna leave this off, of course, to balance it all out.
Richard Doty hasn't had a chance to defend himself.
And Chelsea, every single time I think somebody has a little bit of credibility, it just gets
hit a little bit.
So Mystery Wire, George Knapp interviewed Richard Doty in 2019 about this.
Okay, I'm scared.
This is what George Knapp asked them.
You had these battles with UFO people for years, and they accuse you of things, and I'm paraphrasing
this part of it, such as forging the documents and sending them off for Majestic 12.
This is Richard Doty's response.
Yes, in 1987, I was investigated by the FBI for the MJ-12 documents.
They claimed the UFO researchers claimed I released them.
I created them.
I went through an investigation by the FBI.
I was cleared.
I took a polygraph test.
I was cleared.
And again, in 89, a different aspect of it became public.
The FBI called me and the same agent who investigated me the first time said, quote,
I hate to do this again, but I need to talk to you about this end quote.
And I was cleared, obviously, on that one.
And then a third time that actually happened when Bob Collins wrote this book, exempt from
disclosure, he put something in that book, and they thought that information came from
me.
I showed up at my doorstep with search warrants and took my hard drive from my computer, and
they looked at it and they came back later and told me it was clear.
Didn't contain anything and that they paid me $600 to get another hard drive.
They didn't give my hard drive back and they did find out who released that to Robert Collins.
That was somebody out of Los Alamos and they went after that guy, but I didn't do it.
So that's his argument is the FBI came and talked to me, took a polygraph test and turned
out he didn't do it.
There's nothing from the FBI about it.
But if Richard Doty works for the worked for the Air Force, I don't know what the fuck
he's doing now, but he would have the clearance to be faking documents though.
I don't know.
Doty doesn't seem to do that much work.
Like when we're looking at the Serpo stuff or maybe he wrote it where it's like, oh
yeah, and everything looks outside on Serpo like Adobe as if somebody in New Mexico could
look out the window and see the same thing and they poop in cat boxes.
Just like my cat.
We would have known enough about what a cop secret document at the time he was in government
would look like or should look like.
Yeah, but we've also seen Doty be very careless.
Exactly.
And this is him being careless possibly speculation on my part, but he's saying, oh yeah, top
secret classification and things like that probably were the same as when I was in government
and how you write dates and all these other things.
So he makes small errors along the ways as to how the system would look at his time during
government.
Which also make it look like a clear forgery.
And also Chelsea, something I learned during the research I was gathering.
Did you know that Doty was a consultant for the X files?
What?
Yeah.
He was a consultant for episodes of the X files from 1993 to 1996.
He's left with this guy.
No, I didn't.
We did a whole episode on Richard Doty that never came up.
Allegedly, he might have written an episode under a pseudonym too.
Thank God.
But this isn't a Richard Doty episode.
This is a Bill Moore, Majestic 12 episode.
And I think that gives you enough information about Bill Moore and his involvement in Majestic
12.
It all might be above board, but man, are there some suspicious parts and taking in its entirety
with our Bill Moore episodes.
It's really sketchy.
And not only that, from our last episode where he's like, oh yeah, like I'm not really doing
any of the bad stuff.
Like I'm just kind of a helpless bystander that's going to collect some information
to like learning.
No, he talked a lot about wanting to forge documents to get real information to come
out.
As if it's just innocent.
Yeah.
But that's all I have for that.
Any questions on it, Chelsea?
I don't have any questions on that.
I think we're getting closer and closer to potentially remembering who Bill Moore is
when we're tying it to all of this stuff.
I mean, ask us maybe in a couple of episodes.
Maybe we'll put that on there.
Surprise who's Bill Moore.
Yeah.
No, I think that was, I don't want to say great.
It was something.
But this links him to three of the like most prominent stories in ufology, the Roswell,
Majestic 12 and the Philadelphia experiment.
Three things that most shaped ufology in the 1980s on this.
It's pretty messed up, isn't it?
Yeah.
But that's where we're going to leave you for now with Bill Moore, the cliffhanger of
a lot of lies and a stopping of book writing, despite the fact that he really should have
written a book on Majestic 12.
That would have gotten him some money.
What's going on here?
I feel like Chelsea's got some information in the next episode about why everything weirdly
stops after this.
I guess we're going to have to wait seven more days to find out.
That's in podcast time.
It could be whatever amount of time in your time over there.
You people, the listener.
It's not when you really...
Anyhow, I guess it's a choose your own adventure.
So long as you're following the same time as us.
Yeah.
You don't see any parting thoughts.
I'm excited to see where it goes next week.
I'm sure in the end he comes up clean and everything just kind of results.
Yeah.
It's all in like, Bayesian paint.
Yeah.
As he really wants.
There's a reasonable explanation for everything and that's why Bill Moore is thought of such
a stand up guy in the UFO community today.
And remembers.
Yeah.
That's why there's a statue.
Yeah.
Anyhow, we will finish us up next week.
I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.
Bye.
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