1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,000 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,160 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the cardamon on your podcast Spice Rack. 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,200 We are your spicy host, Taylor and Chelsea. 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,680 And today we are following up. 5 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,160 I've decided if we're just talking about him in general, I want to call him Billy just 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,040 to give him a bit more character. 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,800 The articles I read on him are William, but I like Billy. 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,600 And today we are following up on our Billy Moore stuff. 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,000 Chelsea has a little bit of the biography to get into and then we'll see how it goes 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,000 from there. 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,840 So Chelsea, without further ado, why don't you take over? 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:46,840 Okay, I will. 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,120 I just have a quick question before we get into it. 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,120 Cardamon. 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,200 Yeah, it's one of those things that people kind of vaguely know, but most people couldn't 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,000 tell you what it is or the specific taste of cardamon, but it's there. 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,320 Yeah, something that we're all vaguely aware of. 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,720 That does say journey to the fringe. 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,320 Okay, okay. 20 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,320 Also, we know nothing about cardamon. 21 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,320 Sorry, we are not a cardamon. 22 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:16,120 Okay, let's just move on. 23 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,960 Okay, welcome back to round two of another asshole. 24 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:24,880 Last week, if you remember, and I think Taylor's giving his personality a little bit too much 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:32,520 possess by calling him Billy, I think William is about the amount of vanilla he's coming 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,020 off as to me. 27 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:35,680 Vanilla might be too spicy for this guy. 28 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,680 It might be too spicy. 29 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,960 There's a lot of flavor in vanilla. 30 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:41,320 Just like ice cube. 31 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:45,160 Hence why he's so forgettable, but I do like Billy. 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,600 It has a rank to it, but I feel like it's too spicy for this guy. 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,600 Like you said. 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:55,560 Last week, we talked about a couple of well-known books that Moore did on some stuff, and this 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,000 guy's kind of coming along and developing to us in a weird way. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,120 We're not doing it the usual way that we do assholes. 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:10,280 We're kind of breaking it down into impacts he's had on the UFO community in our episodes. 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,720 Lesson being, while we can't remember Bill Moore generally as a person, we do remember 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,920 his books that have shaped the UFO community. 40 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:25,680 And it's idea that we can recognize to this day being Area 50, no, the Roswell Crash. 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,280 And what's the other one? 42 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:28,280 Philadelphia Experiment. 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:29,800 The Philadelphia Experiment. 44 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,920 So these are still ideas that are shaped by Bill Moore. 45 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:37,880 Where we left off was with Bill Moore being contacted by a mysterious telephone person 46 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,080 who refers to himself as Vulcan. 47 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,080 You know what? 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,080 I'm just going to give you the quote again. 49 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,520 You don't have to go back to the other episode right to the very last two minutes. 50 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,520 This isn't the quote. 51 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:47,520 This is just me talking. 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,080 Moore is out one day promoting the Roswell book when here's the quote. 53 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,960 I got a phone call after appearing on a radio show from a man who said, quote, within a 54 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,200 quote, you're the only person we've heard talk about this subject who seems to know 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,880 what he's talking about. 56 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,560 End quote, within a quote. 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,040 We're still in the quote, though. 58 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,800 It convinced me that he was a government intelligence agent and wanted to begin disseminating 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,360 some information about UFOs to the public. 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:13,520 End quote. 61 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:19,000 In exchange for providing the researcher with new information, Moore was to observe specific 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,280 individuals within the UFO field. 63 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:27,360 Now I have to ask, after the books Moore had written that are highly, highly criticized 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,760 for being mostly made up, fabricated, poor research, whatever, as we went over in the 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,760 last episode. 66 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,080 And one sided, yes. 67 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:36,080 Yeah. 68 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,720 What do you think about this Vulcan person saying Moore is the only person that seems 69 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,480 to know what they're talking about? 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,040 It seems to me somebody who wants to spread something particular out. 71 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,040 Yeah. 72 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,480 I went back and forth on it. 73 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,080 I think there's a couple of things. 74 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,080 Yeah. 75 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,640 And this came up when I was doing research for my episode that'll be coming up. 76 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:01,200 It seems like he is getting fed information from somewhere that wants bad information 77 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,200 to come out. 78 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,200 I'll leave it at that until I get to my end. 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Yeah. 80 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,200 Yeah. 81 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,400 It's a major kind of theme that's coming up that we'll see. 82 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,080 I think there's a couple of things that could be at play here and it very well could be 83 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,960 all of these things coinciding together. 84 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:22,080 Number one, Moore is feeding his ego because this is a quote from Moore about what's going 85 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:23,080 on. 86 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:28,240 Number two, Vulcan is leaning into the fact that they're recruiting him to be a disinformation 87 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,480 agent and using flattery and they're going after the author of very popular books at 88 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,600 the time who have a huge following. 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:36,600 Yeah. 90 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:37,600 That's the other part of it. 91 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,080 The thing is it could just simply be the fame is what this guy's looking for. 92 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,680 Not necessarily somebody who is good at critically analyzing information, but they can get it 93 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:46,680 out there to a wider audience. 94 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:47,680 Get it out there. 95 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:48,680 Yeah. 96 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,200 And number three, Vulcan is a fucking idiot. 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,280 So it could be one, it could be all of those. 98 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,880 It could be more things. 99 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,720 Moore, it could be Doty. 100 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,720 Yeah. 101 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,720 Yeah. 102 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,720 It's Richard Doty. 103 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,120 And in which case we're back to point number three. 104 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,120 You know what? 105 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,280 I can't say that Doty is an idiot. 106 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:07,280 Actually I do. 107 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:08,280 He's an idiot. 108 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:09,280 Yeah. 109 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:13,280 But I mean he's done a good job at what he's been trying to do. 110 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,200 Whatever it is he's trying to do. 111 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,560 Anyhow, Moore eagerly accepts. 112 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,320 He's like, yeah, I'm fucking doing this. 113 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,800 I am pretty great. 114 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:22,800 Yeah. 115 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:23,800 Yeah. 116 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:24,800 I am pretty good. 117 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Bill Moore, quote, probably at some point. 118 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:32,160 Now let's see what Shenadigun's Moore gets up to in this episode and who is going to be 119 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:38,800 the first ufologist on their hit list that they wanted to target, as I said in the quote. 120 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,680 Why Paul Benowitz, of course. 121 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,600 Now, that was my intro. 122 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,360 Let's find out just what I'm talking about. 123 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:50,520 Of course we've covered Paul Benowitz indirectly at this point in the form of Richard Doty. 124 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:56,360 And while Moore did come up very briefly in the story of Paul Benowitz in Richard Doty's 125 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,280 episode, I seem to have underestimated the role that he had played in the whole affair, 126 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:06,760 not only just because, but also because it was not an episode on Paul Benowitz or Bill 127 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,760 Moore. 128 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,720 The focus was on Richard Doty as it was a Richard Doty episode. 129 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,840 So I feel like we told the Paul Benowitz story in the form of Richard Doty and now we're 130 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:19,680 doing it in the form of Bill Moore. 131 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:25,000 And I feel like poor Paul Benowitz hasn't been represented fairly, but that's just an 132 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,280 observation at this point. 133 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:28,280 We may never do anything about that. 134 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:29,280 We may never. 135 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:30,280 We may. 136 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:31,280 We may get to. 137 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:33,280 And we've covered the story a lot now. 138 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:34,280 Yeah. 139 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:41,200 We're going to have another episode containing Paul Benowitz, but from another perspective 140 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,760 on Bill Moore's role, it's all very artistic. 141 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,160 It's the most artistic way we could do this. 142 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,800 So to make a very, very long story short, the late Paul Benowitz was an investigator with 143 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:57,400 the Aerial Nominal Research Organization, or APRO in Tucson, Arizona. 144 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,480 He was a successful businessman and UFO sympathizer. 145 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,400 Benowitz was also of the belief that there was a serious plot involving an extensive 146 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,480 network of underground UFO bases connected to an alien colonization and control scheme 147 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,720 to gain mastery over the human race. 148 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,720 Benowitz also claimed to have uncovered evidence of aliens controlling people using electronic 149 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:26,600 devices and furthermore claimed UFOs were frequently observed near Kirtland Air Force 150 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,600 Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which was connected to secret tunnels in the mountains 151 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:37,240 of nearby Monsanto Nuclear Weapon Storage Facility and Coyote Test Range. 152 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,960 How did Benowitz come to suspect all of this? 153 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:45,800 He was convinced he was intercepting electronic communications originating from a secret underground 154 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,840 UFO facility located outside of the town of Dulce, New Mexico. 155 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Unable to contain himself, Benowitz proceeded to sound the alert openly, much to the dismay 156 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,040 of officials at APRO. 157 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,360 There was also a reason for everything that I mentioned above that Benowitz adamantly 158 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:04,480 believed in. 159 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:10,840 There were people actively feeding him disinformation and straight up just fucking with the guy. 160 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,880 Some from the government and others were, I don't know, like colleagues I guess you 161 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:15,880 could call them? 162 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,720 And elaborately too. 163 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Elaborately, yes. 164 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,680 Yeah, I think you could call them colleagues. 165 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,920 The government in the forms of mostly Richard Doty, who was confirming the information that 166 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,520 Benowitz had and eventually Benowitz goes off the deep end and was institutionalized. 167 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,080 So there's a lot to this story and how it all came to that. 168 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:43,440 We go over it in a little bit more detail in the Richard Doty episode. 169 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,080 I'm just going to jump off from here. 170 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,480 That's about all you need to understand what's going on. 171 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,360 I'll describe a little bit more as we go, but highly recommend the Richard Doty episode 172 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,760 so that you can get more information on Paul Benowitz and just how he came to believe in 173 00:08:58,760 --> 00:08:59,760 all of that. 174 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,640 It wasn't just, you know, some crazy person making this up. 175 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,360 Let's check out what Bill Moore has to do with this. 176 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,080 So where does he come into play in this story? 177 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,040 You may ask, pretend you ask, just in case you didn't. 178 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,600 But that's what this episode is about. 179 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:13,920 So I'm pretty sure you did ask. 180 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,720 Chelsea, where does Bill Moore come up in all of this? 181 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,200 Okay, let's talk about it. 182 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,560 Because you did ask. 183 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:20,560 Good. 184 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:25,240 Well, after his move to Arizona, that's Bill Moore, his existing connections with the 185 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,240 UFO community resulted in him being invited to be a member of the board of directors at 186 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,240 ARPO. 187 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,680 This just so happened to have such perfectly precise timing to cross paths with the Paul 188 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:40,040 Benowitz episode already in progress. 189 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:46,320 And they, who is apro, labeled the bizarre claims of Benowitz as delusional and paranoid, 190 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,680 apparently, according to Bill Moore, I'm not actually sure how credible that statement 191 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:55,720 is, but this is Bill Moore saying that he was already labeled that. 192 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,680 However, unknown to Benowitz, Moore and his new friends, which would be Richard Dodie and 193 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:07,400 friends outside of the UFO community, plotted to not only discredit Benowitz, but psychologically 194 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:08,480 destroy him. 195 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:15,080 On December 29th and 30th of 1981, Bill Moore would meet with an unknown person to him at 196 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:16,080 that time. 197 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:21,040 It was the first time and the meeting was arranged by the anonymous caller, as mentioned, 198 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,680 ending our previous episode and starting this episode. 199 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:28,040 Moore contends that the anonymous caller was a person who they referred to affectionately 200 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:35,760 as Falcon and the middleman who was Sparrow, it was meeting with at this place was Sergeant 201 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Richard C. Dodie. 202 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:43,160 So their meeting and Richard Dodie was then stationed at Kirtland Air Force Base, which 203 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:49,120 we just mentioned, Paul Benowitz, you know, having a play in this whole affair. 204 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,200 Yes, we're pretty sure Falcon and Sparrow are the same person in retrospect. 205 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,000 And on that point, I wonder what restaurant they met at. 206 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,600 Like I feel like it's Denny's. 207 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,600 I get Denny's vibes from them. 208 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,640 I don't know, Denny's just seems like it might have too much flair. 209 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,640 Do you think? 210 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:07,640 Yeah. 211 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,520 And it's the 80s too, so there's not a lot of chains at this time. 212 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,280 Okay, okay, good point. 213 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,720 Anyhow, a couple of topics were discussed during this meeting of the minds, one of which 214 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,240 will be covered in the next episode. 215 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,720 But what we're truly interested... 216 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,800 Sorry, I need to get back to this point. 217 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,560 It's a restaurant that probably serves boiled steaks. 218 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:31,240 Like I feel like that's the kind of food a Bill Moore eats. 219 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,360 I think you're right. 220 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:40,040 What we're truly interested in right now is that this is precisely where the time, the 221 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,240 place that Moore agrees to work with the government as a disinformation agent. 222 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:50,400 Shortly thereafter, Moore claimed it became apparent that he was supplying information 223 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,960 to the government through Doty on the activities of Paul Benowitz. 224 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,680 I'm not sure why it took him so long to realize this when he agreed to it, but... 225 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:00,680 Oil steak. 226 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:01,680 It was just so good. 227 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:03,680 It was like a Bill Moore steak with the... 228 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:04,680 No, agreeable. 229 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:08,080 It was so good. 230 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,240 This thing first, the two agreed to finish the discrediting of Paul Benowitz. 231 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,160 This is where he was targeted, while with Moore being involved. 232 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,720 He was already targeted. 233 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,920 At this point, what's Bill Moore getting out of this? 234 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,920 You know what? 235 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:28,160 We'll get into it a little bit, but in my opinion, I have no fucking idea what he got 236 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,160 out of it. 237 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,120 We'll talk about it, and I think he kind of has a feeling of what he's getting out of 238 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,400 it, but in my opinion, he's not getting anything. 239 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Not one thing. 240 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Okay. 241 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,400 Great question. 242 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,280 And I kind of have an idea what will come out of it, but we'll talk about that in my 243 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,800 episode when we get there. 244 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,080 And do you think you got anything out of it? 245 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,080 Yes. 246 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,080 Further boiled steaks. 247 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,080 Yes. 248 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,800 A lifetime supply. 249 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,680 That's actually no, he would never. 250 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,560 Finishing discrediting of Paul Benowitz. 251 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:58,720 I think I already said that, but it's important. 252 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,440 The prime objective of the counterintelligence people who swarmed around Benowitz between 253 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:10,080 1980 and 1984 seemed to be the maintenance of high level security net around the radio 254 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,080 signals. 255 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,200 He was intercepting. 256 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,720 If you remember me talking about that, he believed he was intercepting alien signals 257 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,320 from an underground base. 258 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,080 First things first, the two agreed to finish the discrediting of Paul Benowitz. 259 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,400 I think I already said that, but it's important. 260 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,200 So quote from Bill Moore, the prime objective of the counterintelligence people who swarmed 261 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:37,440 around Benowitz between 1980 and 1984 seemed to be the maintenance of a high level security 262 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,440 net around the radio signals he was intercepting. 263 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:46,000 I was unable to determine why this was a priority at the time and I still do not know today. 264 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,880 What I do know, however, is that since they couldn't physically stop Paul from intercepting 265 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:57,000 these signals and since they hadn't been successful in enlisting his voluntary silence, they fell 266 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,280 back on a wall of disinformation as the best way to confuse the issue and ultimately to 267 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,680 call his credibility into question. 268 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:05,680 End quote. 269 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:10,240 It would appear that this whistleblower was becoming more dangerous to himself and hardly 270 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,320 needed to be pushed over the edge. 271 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,320 That's Benowitz. 272 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,560 Still, that is precisely what Moore, Doty, and Friends did. 273 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:22,640 Moore started to feed him pure misinformation on the subject with the full intent that he 274 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,240 would repeat this thes that they're feeding him publicly. 275 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:35,640 Now it's interesting that they say that because, well, interesting in the fact that I think 276 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Bill Moore would have had more polls than Benowitz would have at that time because he 277 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:41,840 had those books. 278 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,960 Yeah, Roswell had just come out in 1980, so he was a big deal at least within the community. 279 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,960 Hence probably why they picked him to spread it to Benowitz. 280 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:56,200 But I guess Benowitz was just getting involved in things he shouldn't have, I guess. 281 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,680 Next, they started playing mind games with the victim, Benowitz. 282 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,480 For example, Moore personally described how they would go to Benowitz's home on occasions 283 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,720 and slowly move the furniture around. 284 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,720 I'm assuming that that was breaking and entering, not just brazenly in front of his 285 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,360 face when they went over for tea or whatever. 286 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,760 Unless they got Benowitz's wife involved, in which case she was letting them in and 287 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:18,760 doing that. 288 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,680 But yeah, I'm assuming it's breaking and entering. 289 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:22,680 Yeah. 290 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,400 In which case he has a lot more to kind of explain. 291 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,400 Answer for, yeah. 292 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,360 But he doesn't really at all. 293 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,920 It was just a joke, guys. 294 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,040 Yeah, he doesn't address that. 295 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Moore explains, when one's concept of their immediate environment begins to change, we 296 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,080 start to lose touch with reality. 297 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:46,080 Sadly, it all had a most negative impact on both the physical and psychological health 298 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,080 of Benowitz. 299 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,880 During that time, he was committed three times to a mental health facility and treated for 300 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,160 severe delusional paranoia. 301 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,360 It really sounds like he's taking no responsibility for anything going on with Benowitz. 302 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,000 You're already picking up on that? 303 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000 It gets better. 304 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 It gets way better. 305 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,160 Yeah, we're starting to see the emergence of that. 306 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,320 Yeah, we're just playing jokes on him and it clearly detached him from reality and sent 307 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:12,680 him to the mental health hospital. 308 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:20,600 He really takes a step back from the complete destruction they get on this guy psychologically. 309 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,560 Yeah, that's exactly kind of, oh well, you're going to like this one in Moore's words, as 310 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,360 I will provide more information on next, like on the next episode. 311 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,040 He maintains that quote, you're going to like this one. 312 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,600 My role in the affair was largely that of a freelancer providing information on Paul's 313 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,440 current thinking and activities. 314 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:46,680 I had nothing whatsoever to do with the counterintelligence and the disinformation, although I either 315 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:52,760 knew or was aware of a number of people directly involved with that end of things. 316 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,440 Richard Doty was one of these people, although I came to know Doty well enough to gain the 317 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:06,400 impression that he was faithfully carrying out orders, which he personally found distasteful. 318 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,360 So it's not my fault. 319 00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:11,960 I didn't have any part of this plan that they had. 320 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,920 They just shaped it around the information I gathered about this guy to get his most 321 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:16,920 vulnerable issues. 322 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:17,920 Yeah. 323 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,720 It's what I gathered from that. 324 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,720 And he's kind of playing it off as he didn't have the hand in it that he actually did. 325 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,680 Yeah, they wouldn't have been as effective if they don't have somebody right next to 326 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,280 him saying like, oh yeah, and he told me like he fears spiders. 327 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,160 So they said, okay, we're just going to fill his house with spiders then. 328 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,160 Yeah. 329 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,000 And this is coming right after I said that he was literally breaking into his home and 330 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,800 like moving furniture around, but he's like, I was just providing information. 331 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:44,800 Placing the spiders. 332 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,800 Yeah. 333 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,240 And he also directly conflict that information. 334 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,640 Like I just said, that he did actually know what he was doing in the very same statement 335 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:53,640 might I add. 336 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:59,880 So more in his own words regarding the Benowitz affair spends a considerable amount of time, 337 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:05,760 if not all of it, essentially alluding that Benowitz was asking for it because quote, 338 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:12,560 he seemed to have an implicit and abiding faith and quote in Benowitz's story quote, 339 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:18,400 blossomed into a tale which rivaled the wildest science fiction scenario anyone could possibly 340 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,880 imagine and quote another quote. 341 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,680 Basically it seemed to me that Paul was his own worst enemy. 342 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,960 Instead of withholding judgment until all the facts were in Paul insisted on repeatedly 343 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:36,200 going off half cock to virtually anyone who would listen and quote, he spends a great 344 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:42,520 deal of time breaking down everything Paul did wrong and minimizing the role that everyone 345 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:49,080 was playing to actively feed him this information to ensure that he believed it and went public 346 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,080 with it. 347 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,720 That's all concerning enough. 348 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,640 Then he says Richard Doty found what he was doing to be distasteful. 349 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,880 Now, Bill Moore, we are not fools. 350 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,360 We know about Richard Doty. 351 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:05,920 He did not find that distasteful. 352 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,880 This just based on that last little bit, it's a little bit behind the scenes, but it's 353 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,760 almost victim blaming. 354 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,920 Like he's saying this guy kind of deserves it from his crazy outlandish ideas. 355 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,920 Like what do you expect to happen when you have crazy ideas like this? 356 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,840 Look how short the skirt is he's wearing. 357 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,120 He's not even saying that. 358 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,920 He's saying he wasn't good at researching. 359 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,000 Like what can we do if he wasn't good at what he did? 360 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000 He deserved it. 361 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,480 He was just asking for it. 362 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,200 And the fact that Bill Moore's the guy saying look how bad you are at researching is kind 363 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,000 of funny too in a dark way. 364 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,920 I know it goes on, it goes on. 365 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:49,280 Because Benowitz was asking for it, he further goes on to justify the means to an end. 366 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,040 Quote, you ready for more quotes? 367 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,000 These are all coming directly from him and you're going to find out where he said all 368 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,400 of this quote. 369 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,120 Whatever it was Benowitz was involved with, he was the subject of considerable interest 370 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:07,760 on the part of not one, but several government agencies and that they were actively trying 371 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:13,520 to diffuse him by pumping as much disinformation through him as he could possibly absorb. 372 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:19,000 Being a very small part of that process gave me, I thought, something of an advantage. 373 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:24,880 It became my intention to play that advantage for all the information I could get. 374 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,800 That's right Moore of course was not being played. 375 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,480 He was going to secretly work behind the scenes to find out just what the government was up 376 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,740 to and who was more qualified to do that than Moore. 377 00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:39,560 From Richard Doty. 378 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,960 Yeah, the most witty and cunning of all the ufologists. 379 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,520 If anyone can do it, surely it's Moore. 380 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,520 He continues. 381 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,320 Quote, the problem was always one of keeping a level head and trying to carefully sort 382 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,240 the crap from the candy. 383 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,440 Something which Paul didn't seem to need to be very good at. 384 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,440 End quote. 385 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,280 Yeah, that fucking Paul, he'll just believe anything the government tells him. 386 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,280 What an idiot. 387 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,120 It's almost like he didn't know he was being completely plotted against and fed government 388 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,120 documents. 389 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:15,920 Like he's completely not taking into account the fact that he has a bird's eye view of 390 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,080 what's happening. 391 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,240 He is not of the mind. 392 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,000 Have you ever heard what's it called? 393 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,360 It's like the state of consciousness, what they look like with children. 394 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:28,360 Like when they're three years old and they'll like show them a picture of somebody hiding 395 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:33,120 candy in a room and then they'll wonder why when somebody goes into the room they don't 396 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,560 look immediately where the candy is hidden. 397 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,400 And it's because they don't understand that different people have different information. 398 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,880 It's not all people have the exact same information. 399 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,120 This is what it reminds me of. 400 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,920 Oh my God, that's a good point. 401 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,600 And Chelsea, I just need to ask you at this point, because this guy seems to lack a certain 402 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,480 understanding of things. 403 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:59,440 Please say this quote's not coming from his eulogy at Benowitz's funeral. 404 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,440 I just need to make sure this guy's not that. 405 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,680 This understanding of his mother's shuffle pop. 406 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,320 No, and we're going to find out next episode where all of this comes. 407 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,040 I'm sorry to hold it over to tell you where this information is coming from, but you'll 408 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,400 know next episode where it's coming from. 409 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:20,080 When I started reading this, I was like, surely he cannot be this stupid to be like, 410 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,400 I'm the hero in this story. 411 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,720 And Richard Dodie was doing the Lord's work. 412 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,800 It's basically saying like, no matter what, this guy was going to get what's coming to 413 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,800 him. 414 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,120 So I can get some information out of it that I would find super useful about the government. 415 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:43,160 So I might as well just do this minimal part to make this guy's life a living hell. 416 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,960 Basically what he's thinking is they say, and I think it comes up and I'm going to ruin 417 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,440 it for when it comes up in this, but even in the Richard Dodie episode, they say with 418 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,960 every chunk of BS they threw at the wall, there is a little bit of truth. 419 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,600 That's what Bill Moore is going after, that little bit of truth. 420 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:07,000 And he thinks that he's going to be able to out-con the people who are feeding all this 421 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000 BS. 422 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,280 Like he's there to find out that little bit of truth. 423 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,800 So that's why he's saying, well, Paul couldn't do it. 424 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,600 So I'm going to do it because I am far superior to Paul Benowitz and he deserved it. 425 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,520 And Richard Dodie even said that to me. 426 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,880 So I believe it to be true. 427 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,480 That is one of the pieces of true information being fed to me. 428 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,160 That could be very well why he did it too. 429 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,880 Now we're finding out more things that he's like the Messiah that's going to come in and 430 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,040 find the answers of what the government really knows about the government, the real answers, 431 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,040 the why. 432 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,000 And he was willing to do whatever it took to get there. 433 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,360 He goes on to say, quote, one of the key factors in any successful disinformation scheme is 434 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,880 that it must contain some element of truth in order to be credible. 435 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,880 Here it is. 436 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:52,880 It was literally my next sentence. 437 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,280 Knowing that, however, is one thing. 438 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,360 Doing something with it is quite another. 439 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,520 When you're dealing with what you know to be a classified program and you're determined 440 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,600 to get information without breaking any laws and running a fowl of national security, you're 441 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,600 walking a very fine line. 442 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,680 That's why it took so long to come up with any results. 443 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,120 What results he's speaking of. 444 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:18,520 I have not one fucking idea because I don't believe he had any results except becoming 445 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,120 the renowned ufologist in bed with the government feeding disinformation to his peers. 446 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,480 He'd hated in fact, he never published another thing. 447 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,120 He never came out with anything else ever. 448 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:39,120 So for him to be taking this stance on it as if he was successful is like a stretch. 449 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:40,640 It's a fairy tale. 450 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,400 Yeah, I'm sure he did fairly well on the speaking engagements tour with the ufology 451 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:51,280 conventions, but I can only imagine pretending as if I don't know what's going to happen 452 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,280 next. 453 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,920 Next quote because they're coming up so good. 454 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,120 These are good quotes. 455 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:04,120 Oh, there I was with my foot literally in the door of a secret counterintelligence game 456 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,880 that gave every appearance of being somehow directly connected to a high level government 457 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,040 U of O project and judging by the positions of the people I need to be directly involved 458 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,040 with it, definitely had something to do with national security. 459 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,360 There is no way I was going to allow the opportunity to pass me by without learning at least something 460 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,080 about what was going on. 461 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,880 Many ufologists have run up against disinformation over the years. 462 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,380 Virtually all of them viewed it as a negative process and backed away from it either in 463 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:39,120 anger or disgust as soon as they discovered what they were dealing with. 464 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:45,840 Even today, the UFO community unanimously considers anyone known or suspected of dealing in disinformation 465 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,160 as one of the bad guys to be shamed, to be shunned or avoided at all costs, and certainly 466 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,960 never ever to be believed. 467 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,560 I determined to take quite a different tack. 468 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:01,040 I would play the disinformation game, get my hands dirty just often enough to lead those 469 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:06,400 directing the process into believing I was doing exactly what they wanted me to do and 470 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,040 all the while continuing to burrow my way into the matrix so as to learn as much possible 471 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,880 about who was directing it and why. 472 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,720 It would be a classic case of turning the tables on the very ones who were the most 473 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,280 confident they had the situation well in hand. 474 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,320 There was just one thing I needed to do this. 475 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,320 Secrecy! 476 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,640 I couldn't tell anyone about what I was doing for if I didn't, we got back to those in 477 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:37,320 control, I would be immediately cut off and cast a drift before I could learn anything. 478 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,520 It was a formidable problem. 479 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,920 So there we have it. 480 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,400 He was actually on our side the whole time. 481 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,400 Marter than the government itself. 482 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,400 Yeah. 483 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,800 And that he would be able to get... 484 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,800 God. 485 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,800 Okay. 486 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:52,800 The government saw right past that. 487 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,960 They thought he was the guy to do this, but he was working against them. 488 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,200 This seems like some idiot that we can trick. 489 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,200 Yep. 490 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,200 They know who they were dealing with. 491 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,200 They trick him not. 492 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,200 They did not know. 493 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,200 They did not know that he was to turn the tables and come up with nothing. 494 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:17,440 And he... just another part of disinformation. 495 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,440 The fool. 496 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,240 I wonder what happens to him in the end. 497 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,280 He must have not been a hated person providing that disinformation. 498 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,360 I can't see how it turns out this way. 499 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:34,120 He got all his ducks in a row and they are just walking straight towards the creek. 500 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:35,120 Yeah. 501 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,040 Remember that time Bill Moore wrote that book that everyone knows now and is famous that 502 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,880 he found all that stuff the government was doing? 503 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,880 The real stuff? 504 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,880 Yeah. 505 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,520 Exit that fool Richard Doty thinking he couldn't discern it. 506 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,520 It's famous. 507 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:49,520 You know it. 508 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,520 Okay. 509 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,320 So he goes on to say, my role in the Benowitz affair had at least secured me a seat in the 510 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,320 right theater. 511 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,720 And there it was only a question of whether I could use my balcony ticket to discover 512 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,080 who owned the place and was making the major operational decisions. 513 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,680 You can't figure out who owns places from the balcony. 514 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,680 Yeah. 515 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,000 That's a terrible metaphor. 516 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Questionable ethics I would think. 517 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,320 However this guy is thinking that. 518 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,200 That's questionable as his metaphors. 519 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,680 Doty is a stand up guy. 520 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,680 Okay. 521 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,720 So last but not least on the Benowitz affair, I'm going to leave you with yet another direct 522 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,640 quote from Moore on the subject and we will get to closing thoughts on the matter and 523 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,720 then one more thing, which is one more thing. 524 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,640 I really like this because basically everything I pulled on the Benowitz affair is right 525 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,200 from Bill Moore's fucking mouth. 526 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,040 There's no fear saying that. 527 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,840 I just can't believe he doesn't realize how this comes across. 528 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,200 It's tone deaf, isn't it? 529 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,200 It's completely tone deaf and you're going to love where it came from. 530 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,840 So here's the last quote on the Benowitz case. 531 00:28:54,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Moreover, as I have already stated, I was personally aware of the intelligence community's 532 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,920 concerted efforts to systematically confuse, discourage and discredit Paul by providing 533 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,200 him with a large body of disinformation on the subject of UFOs. 534 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,680 The malevolent aliens who allegedly pilot them, the technology they employ and the underground 535 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,160 bases they supposedly possess and occupy. 536 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,680 Okay, so he's admitting it. 537 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:25,400 The entire story of a secret treaty between the US government and the aliens, of exchanges 538 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,520 of technology between us and the aliens, of battles between aliens and American armed 539 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:36,440 forces and of aliens allegedly having implanted hundreds of thousands, even millions of human 540 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,640 beings for the purposes of taking over the world and using us as cattle or slaves, came 541 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,640 as a result of this process. 542 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,560 I know because I was in a position to observe much of this process as it unfolded and I 543 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:55,240 was providing regular reports on its effectiveness to some of the very people who were quote 544 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,720 doing it to Paul and I can tell you that it was effective because I watched Paul become 545 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,240 systematically more paranoid and more emotionally unstable as he tried to assimilate what was 546 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,400 happening to him. 547 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,480 He had guns and knives all over his house, had installed extra locks on his door and 548 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:18,000 he swore that they, meaning the aliens, were coming through his walls at night and injecting 549 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,160 him with hideous chemicals which would knock him out for long periods of time. 550 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,400 He told me he had no idea what they were doing with him while he was knocked out. 551 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,000 He began to suffer increasing bouts of insomnia. 552 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,760 Others took over the day to day operation of his business as he went through this. 553 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,360 One day I watched him eat not one bite of his lunch while he chained smoke 28 cigarettes 554 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,400 and 45 minutes to use his drinks. 555 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,480 I knew at the time that he was not far from the inevitable nervous collapse. 556 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,120 His health had deteriorated, he had lost considerable weight, his hands shook as if from palsy and 557 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,320 he looked terrible. 558 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,480 I do know from firsthand experience that there was a tremendous amount of government disinformation 559 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,920 involved in that a large portion of what we are hearing today about malevolent aliens, 560 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,960 underground bases and secret treaties with the US government posits roots firmly planted 561 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,720 in the Benowitz affair. 562 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,720 From what I knew of all of this, its purpose was strictly to discredit Benowitz, nothing 563 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,720 more. 564 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:24,720 What amazes me is that nearly a decade later these same stories continue to circulate. 565 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,720 It's a little hard to take in isn't it? 566 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,360 It's the most told death thing I've ever heard. 567 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:36,080 I know you're hearing this guy describe a man's inevitable breakdown to suicide. 568 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,600 And he just watched it. 569 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,600 But look at all this good stuff that's happening. 570 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,600 You don't even hear him say like I felt terrible about what happened to Paul. 571 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,000 But there's not even that. 572 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,760 But I chose not to. 573 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:56,440 He does go on to say that he was not under any sort of agreement with the government 574 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,280 that did not allow him to divulge this information. 575 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,640 Oh yeah, so he voluntarily drove this guy to suicide. 576 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,640 That's great to know. 577 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:12,000 Yeah, and standing by and watching it happen is just as bad even if he did not do anything, 578 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,520 which he did but doesn't seem to want to readily admit, he kind of passively admits 579 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,520 it. 580 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,760 One last thing I want to quickly touch on on this episode is one other quick disinformation 581 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,160 scandal more was a part of another on a long list, which is the Aztec crash, which is a 582 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:35,360 rumored UFO crash in Aztec, New Mexico in 1948, which is labeled the other Roswell. 583 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,200 It was exposed as a hoax by two con men Silas and Leo as a part of a scheme to sell alien 584 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,440 technology. 585 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,080 Moore researched this case in 1985 and confirmed that it was a hoax where his findings appeared 586 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,920 in Mufon symposium proceedings, quote, crashed UFOs evidence in the search for proof and 587 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,920 quote. 588 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,240 Anyway, this is what Moore had to say about this whole fiasco, I guess. 589 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:06,120 Moore and Dodie were having tea one day or like maybe eating at their milk steak or whatever 590 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:12,600 or something and Dodie was probably like working on like anything we can fuck with. 591 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,920 And Moore was like, well, I've been working on this Aztec UFO rumor and Dodie's like, 592 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,400 hmm, you don't say tell me everything. 593 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,520 And months later, Moore finds out that Dodie and a team are running a new disinformation 594 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:31,240 campaign on another ufologist who had ties to Benowitz and who had a film company interested 595 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,260 in doing a UFO documentary. 596 00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:38,600 It appears as if the Benowitz story might have became a part of the script, therefore 597 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,000 extending the disinformation to this person to put an end to that. 598 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,920 Part of this game involved a meeting between the UFO researcher in question and Dodie and 599 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:54,320 others of the AFOC office in Kirtland Air Force Base, wherein the researchers subsequently 600 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,080 claimed to have been allowed to view certain reportedly sensitive documentation about the 601 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,120 government's real involvement with UFOs included in this material was information about an 602 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,000 alleged UFO crash retrieval in Aztec. 603 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,080 And I really like this expert Richard Dodie, who is this is Bill Moore talking, by the 604 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:18,200 way, bound by a security oath cannot and I am told will not discuss this matter except 605 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:23,480 to say that he broke no laws and gave away no secrets that day that in so far as I am 606 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,480 aware is entirely correct. 607 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,360 I on the other hand was never required to sign a security oath and I'm therefore breaking 608 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,240 no laws when I tell you that the information which changed hands that day was directly 609 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:40,960 descended from the discussion Dodie and I had on the very topic a few months earlier. 610 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,720 I can also tell you that this is a very effective deception because the researcher involved 611 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:50,760 continued to believe this information and actively continues to try to convince others 612 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,440 of its truth even now more than six years after the fact. 613 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,840 Moore contends that to the best of his knowledge, it was all disinformation and I was the one 614 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,320 who an unwittingly supplied the fuel to those who are spreading the fire. 615 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,240 I'm surprised he said unwittingly because he seems to be taking a little bit of an 616 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,240 aback there. 617 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:12,800 He does kind of the whole time though, no. 618 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,280 No but before he's like no I'm playing them but unwittingly implies that you don't understand 619 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,280 what's happened. 620 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,320 You don't just talk to Richard Dodie and give him information for no reason just for the 621 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,040 pure joy of talking to Richard Dodie. 622 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,040 That's all I want to cover. 623 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,400 I just wanted to say like here's another thing he was involved in. 624 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:37,600 One final comment on the Aztec hoax is that two other researchers who self published a 625 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:45,920 voluminous book UFO crash at Aztec on the affair in 1987 chose to completely omit any 626 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,560 mention of this is Bill Moore talking again. 627 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,280 Geez I really have to figure out these quotes. 628 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,800 They're very confusing especially for the reader. 629 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,760 So the authors chose to completely omit any mention of my extensive and definitive research 630 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:07,640 on the case which had been published two years earlier and which both researchers had copies 631 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:08,640 of. 632 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,640 It's a classic case. 633 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,000 Who would have thought that people would forego Bill Moore research? 634 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,040 Oh no he is so great at it like nobody would ever. 635 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,400 It's a classic case of the book's principal author Steinman having decided that what his 636 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,120 conclusion would be even before beginning the process of investigation and then totally 637 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,000 ignoring everything which didn't fit. 638 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,480 One of the problems the ufology movement has with its image is that there's a significant 639 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:41,920 number of people involved with it who support this sort of half assed journalism. 640 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:49,120 None like his other two best sellers no and that's where I'm gonna leave it. 641 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:54,000 The only thing I believe about this man now outside of that he enjoys a steak boiled is 642 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,440 that there are no mirrors in his house because there's just no self reflection. 643 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:05,840 None at all and it's pretty much like everything that he ever did is like I don't even know 644 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,280 how to explain it. 645 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,120 I don't think he knows either. 646 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,400 It's based on like immediate thoughts. 647 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,400 That's it. 648 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,960 That's it. 649 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,280 The best thing way I could put this together is just Bill Moore speaking for himself. 650 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,720 I felt like I couldn't even put this into my own words to explain the amount. 651 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:29,400 Without making him look worse or better man. 652 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:36,200 Yeah I mean that's exactly how he put his other two books together and he's just like 653 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,800 only the worst researchers would put it together like this. 654 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,200 What are they half ass get lazy at? 655 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,600 Who just looked up the. 656 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,920 Bill Moore in the best researcher says Richard Doty. 657 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:52,920 Nobody. 658 00:37:52,920 --> 00:38:00,640 If I half ass my book then that would mean that all of my critical thinking processes 659 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,320 are in question but that can't be because Doty told me they are not and that I could 660 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,200 probably play the government. 661 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:13,880 There's no way I'm bad because the government came to me to be the disinformation agent. 662 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,760 I was pretty mind blown by the time I got to the end of this research but that's all 663 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,160 I have for you today on Bill Moore. 664 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,720 I hope it was satisfying. 665 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,440 Do you have any last words? 666 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,240 No I think Bill Moore put it best. 667 00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:28,840 He did put it best. 668 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:35,080 I'm quite satisfied with the fact that majority of that episode came directly from Bill Moore. 669 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,280 Yeah and unfortunately not much of the next episode will come from Bill Moore but don't 670 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:46,680 worry he will be there in all of his blandness. 671 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,600 I guess for now I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. 672 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,000 We are Dream to the Fringe. 673 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,160 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 674 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,480 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 675 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:04,520 If you have liked what you have listened to please like, share, subscribe or follow 676 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,520 us. 677 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:13,960 Also please if possible leave a 5 star review as that really helps us in the algorithms. 678 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,800 Should you wish to interact with us please check us out on your social media of choice. 679 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,520 I bet you we are there. 680 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:25,000 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes or tell 681 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,760 us that we're wrong and terrible either way please send us an email at Journey to the 682 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,920 Fringe at gmail.com. 683 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,680 For now I'll see you in the next episode.