1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,440 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,920 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the stuff recurring dreams are made of, which 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,080 is mostly to spend a disbelief during the event and then coming to reality and realizing 4 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,080 it what really happened after it. 5 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:29,280 We are your recurring host, Taylor and Chelsea, and today we are looking at another asshole, 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,520 not just any asshole, one of the UFO community varietal. 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,080 Chelsea, why don't you tell me more about this varietal, you know, like it's vintage, 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,480 terroir, climate and soil type. 9 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:47,240 Sorry, I will be telling you, and you're right, it is of the UFO community type asshole, not 10 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,840 just like the guy that cut me off in traffic the other day, not like the mundane asshole. 11 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,360 He might be part of that community, but it's kind of like a square's a rectangle, what 12 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,000 a rectangle's not a square. 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:04,120 Yeah, I can't not say that it was him, but we'll just go with the like better asshole 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,800 that you're here for, which is the UFO kind. 15 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,000 Let's get into the soil of him. 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,680 As always, I have to tell you how I came to my topic. 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,440 I was thinking about Richard Doty, because he's been coming up a lot lately. 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,200 He's on the mind a lot. 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,840 He is on the mind a lot. 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,560 He comes up a lot more than you would think. 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,080 Particularly with all the stuff going on with the current disclosure stories, but yes, I 22 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,560 think we will leave that for a later date. 23 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,640 Not only that, but just in our podcast, he's been coming up a lot. 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,680 In the journey to the fringe universe, he is a he comes up a lot and it's weird. 25 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,200 And then he's been coming up in the news as well. 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,280 And yeah, so and then we go. 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,800 I'm taking seriously. 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,120 Yeah, it's super weird. 29 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,160 Anyhow, naturally, I thought I would do a little digging into Bill Moore who really has been 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,800 a slow burn in the journey to the fringe, kind of in the background, I would say. 31 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,840 And he's been revealing himself to us slowly over the life of journey to the fringe. 32 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,080 And it really has been a journey. 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,640 We weren't kidding you on that one. 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,440 He's come up a lot, yet somehow he still kind of blends into the background for me. 35 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,280 And if you were to just randomly ask me, like, do you think Bill Moore is an asshole? 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,880 I probably would have no idea who you're talking about. 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,040 But if you asked me about any of the things he's been involved in, then I'd be like, OK, yeah, 38 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,040 I know who you're talking about. 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,760 I just have to wonder if somebody comes up to you and says a random name and says, are they an asshole? 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,640 Is your general answer, I don't know if you don't recognize the name or is it yet probably? 41 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:37,360 Well, it depends on a lot of things. 42 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,160 The mouth feel of the name, whether or not I actually do know them. 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,680 And how cheeky I'm feeling that day, I guess. 44 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,520 I would also not just put mouth feel in there but syllables in the name. 45 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:50,320 Yeah, it's true. 46 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,400 And whether I could not turn that. 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:03:00,160 And if they submit the name written and it is not written the right way, boy, howdy are the assholes? 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,920 Yeah, oh yeah. 49 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,480 A lot of assholes out there just based on that. 50 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:10,320 So in thinking about Richard Doty, Bill Moore, I figured it was about time we compiled everything 51 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,640 into one place for a nice little three or four part episode. 52 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,320 You know, TikTok length. 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,840 Yeah, I'm really into the multiple episodes now after Britney Spears. 54 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:22,960 To get us started. 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,080 I'm very disappointed you didn't just say oops we did it again. 56 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,320 It's too late now and plus you said it. 57 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,440 So to get us started, I quite like this quote from an article written by Don Schmidt 58 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,400 from which I will keep the title a secret for now as it will give absolutely everything away 59 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,880 and then there's no point of three or four episodes. 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,160 But nonetheless, I felt like this was a great introduction to he who is Bill Moore quote 61 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:56,640 somehow which remains a mystery to this day more either stumbled upon or orchestrated 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,840 one of the most controversial topics both in and outside of the subject of UFOs. 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,960 To some, it remains an enigma both misunderstood and a willing participant. 64 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,920 To others, his name and actions are considered Judas like in their implications. 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,040 Therefore, we will examine how a high school teacher found himself engulfed in the middle 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:23,120 of either an early attempted disclosure or a multi tiered game of disinformation possibly 67 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,040 intended to take down the entire UFO community end quote. 68 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,120 And that's just a little taste to give you something to look forward to. 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Obviously, they're referring to what they talk about in the article and I mean also Bill Moore 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:41,200 which is why I included it here but it also works equally well to show you what we're in for. 71 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,480 There's a little foreshadowing. 72 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,000 We love some foreshadowing. 73 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,400 It'll help you stick around and finish out the episodes because we're in for a long one. 74 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,640 And we're so good at it outside of that. 75 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,120 Yeah, so obviously on this long of an episode we have to start at the beginning. 76 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,320 So Bill Moore was born October 31st, 1943, a Scorpio. 77 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,400 We don't usually start at that beginning. 78 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,000 Yeah, it's the beginning. 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,320 I need to fill out three or four episodes a year. 80 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:15,040 Not really sure where he was born but he attended The O'College in Greenville, Pennsylvania. 81 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,720 So possibly there. 82 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,040 I'm assuming he took teaching or something because he taught language and humanities 83 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,880 at various high schools then left teaching to preserve UFOs. 84 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,000 It was his passion. 85 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,120 I'm fairly passionate about it as well but I wouldn't just like pick up and quit like what 86 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,600 makes me money and be like I'm dedicating my life to UFOs now. 87 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,560 But you're also not a teacher in the American system. 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,200 That's true. 89 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,320 I mean this is probably gonna pay off about the same. 90 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:50,080 So eventually he makes it to be the Arizona State Section Director of MUFON, the Mutual UFO 91 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:50,480 Network. 92 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,120 And he also did some investigations for National Investigations Committee on Aerial 93 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,920 Phenomenon, which is NICAP, etc. 94 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,520 That was from Wikipedia. 95 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:05,200 Here is from the author page on the Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility. 96 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,320 I'm not sure which one is more right because there's contradictions. 97 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,960 William Elmore is an English and French teacher in the Minnesota school system, 98 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,680 a playwright, author, and a playwright. 99 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,520 Author of the school play. 100 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,920 Author and investigator of the unexplained. 101 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,800 His collaboration with Charles Berlitz on the Philadelphia Experiment has taken him on 102 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,640 investigations throughout the United States during the past four years. 103 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,960 This is rife with spelling errors by the way. 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,720 Moore lives in Minnesota with his wife and three children. 105 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,760 His initial interest in the Philadelphia Experiment stems from a meeting with Charles 106 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,520 Berlitz while Berlitz was on a trip to the country. 107 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,440 His story starts with the Philadelphia Experiment. 108 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:47,920 Yep. 109 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,360 That's where the name's familiar. 110 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:50,800 Damn it. 111 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:51,360 Right? 112 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,120 He's come up so much. 113 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:53,440 Yep. 114 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,360 But he kind of like blends into the bathroom. 115 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,120 It's such a bland name. 116 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:57,840 Exactly. 117 00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:58,480 I know. 118 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,360 I know. 119 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,520 And it is a wild ride, guys. 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,440 There could be a Michael Smith we've talked about in every episode 17 times. 121 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,040 I'm not going to remember the name. 122 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,720 He's a wild ride, so just strap yourself in. 123 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,360 Okay. 124 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:12,800 And we have to just hold on. 125 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:13,440 I'll get to it. 126 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:19,040 Moore was one of the most prominent members in the UFO community in the late 1970s to 1980s, 127 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,560 which is why I'm so shocked that you're like, who are we talking about now? 128 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,840 Even though we've talked about him a million times, I can't play some. 129 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,960 So he left a considerable footprint. 130 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:36,800 His involvement with legit UFOlogists, such as Tanton Friedman, solidified Moore as a 131 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,680 prominent person of the community, asshole and UFO community. 132 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:47,120 Among other things we'll learn about that contribute to his infamy that no one can remember. 133 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,800 You'll remember him after this. 134 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,560 I will commit to that. 135 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,440 After the fourth episode, you'll know who he is. 136 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:54,720 So I sure hope. 137 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:55,600 Yeah. 138 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,240 That's boring old Bill Moore. 139 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,920 In all his research and natural writing ability, he ended up writing some particularly well-known 140 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:04,480 books. 141 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:11,200 First up, the Philadelphia Experiment, Project Invisibility, 1979, written with Charles Berlitz. 142 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,200 The first question you may or not be asking is, who the hell is Berlitz? 143 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,120 A guy who wrote some books with Moore. 144 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,520 Yeah, he was a big paranormal writer. 145 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,640 He was also an Army Intelligence Officer at one point, which is pretty mind blowing how 146 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:30,880 much that comes up and how many times Moore comes into contact with that type of person. 147 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,680 Probably potential for a future episode on, I think we've already talked about that, 148 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:38,400 people who were intelligence officers. 149 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,200 We've talked actually about doing an episode specifically on people who turn from military 150 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,240 intelligence to UFO asshole. 151 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,600 Yeah, I think it's on our list. 152 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,760 Yeah, because it randomly came up on that one guy and I said, how hilarious would it be if it 153 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,640 was him and like as soon as I read the first few sentences on his Wikipedia page immediately, 154 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,720 was a military propagandist. 155 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,920 Yeah, it's really weird how much it comes up in this. 156 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,720 Berlitz also penned these books. 157 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,680 Remember, he's an intelligence officer, by the way. 158 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:14,080 The Mystery of Atlantis, Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds, The Bermuda Triangle, Without a Trace, 159 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:21,520 Doomsday 1999 AD, Atlantis to Eaths Continent, Atlantis the Lost Continent Revealed, 160 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:27,680 The Lost Ship of Noah in Search of the Ark of Errorat, The Dragon's Triangle, World of the 161 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:31,120 Incredible but True World of Strange Phenomenon. 162 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,840 I was about to read the publisher as a part of the title, but that's not great. 163 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,600 He really liked Atlantis. 164 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:38,400 He did. 165 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,880 And ocean-based phenomena, I guess. 166 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,000 Because like of those, we included the Dragon's Triangle, which is in the Sea of Japan, 167 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,640 and also the Search for Noah's Ark more or less, because that's the vessel of Errorat, 168 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,960 which is also a vessel that may be on the ocean. 169 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,200 So I would consider that ocean, even though it no longer would be. 170 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:57,760 Yeah. 171 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:03,440 I mean, I picture a Bill Moore as somebody who has a weird fondness for the sea in a way that you 172 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:04,800 don't want to talk to him about it. 173 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,840 This doesn't feel more. 174 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:06,800 This is Berlitz. 175 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:07,520 Oh, okay. 176 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,800 This is the guy he's co-authoring it with. 177 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:17,280 And if you remember from Brack, when we did the Bermuda Triangle, this book came up as one of 178 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:23,120 the sources most people talk about in relation to things, weird things happening about the Bermuda 179 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:23,920 Triangle. 180 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:30,480 And it's just openly kind of like a book based on facts that are made up and just, 181 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,960 I shouldn't say made up, highly pushed. 182 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,120 What do you call it when you like take everything and make it so it makes your point? 183 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,720 Oh, you know what I mean. 184 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:39,600 Yeah, I know. 185 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,080 Like, it's skewed to make it so that it's weird, but it's not. 186 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:45,680 So really discredit it as well. 187 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:50,000 Yeah, you're only looking at the things that prove your point and completely discredit. 188 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,040 Not yet. 189 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,040 Well, that's not quite the word I'm looking for. 190 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,240 No, it's not the word I'm looking for either, but that's what it is. 191 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,600 And that kind of made- 192 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,400 Only bringing forward the things that prove your point, despite the fact that there's other 193 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,640 things out there that completely easily disprove it. 194 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:03,120 Yes. 195 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:03,600 Yeah. 196 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,640 That's exactly what you mean. 197 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,360 There's a word for it. 198 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,400 I can't remember it. 199 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,520 No, neither can I. 200 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,560 And so his book, the Bermuda Triangle, made the Bermuda Triangle what it is. 201 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,560 So back to the Philadelphia experiment. 202 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:19,440 We've done a whole episode on the Philadelphia experiment, so I would highly suggest to listen 203 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,240 for that full story, but I will attempt to summarize it for you here in a couple of sentences 204 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,120 because I'm not wasting time when we've done a full episode on it. 205 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,400 So go back, listen to that. 206 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,200 The Philadelphia experiment was an alleged event claimed to have been witnessed by a dude 207 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,040 who is an ex-merchant mariner. 208 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Whatever that means. 209 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,920 I don't know what a merchant mariner is. 210 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,680 In a naval shipyard in, I've forgotten the name of the city now. 211 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,040 Just kidding, it's Philadelphia. 212 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:43,600 Haha. 213 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:44,640 Are you sure? 214 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:45,760 Haha, yeah. 215 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:46,800 Haha, stop. 216 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:52,160 This dude writes letters that talk about this experiment in Philadelphia where the military 217 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:58,960 tried to cloak the USS Eldridge, a ship from enemy radar by manipulating magnetic fields. 218 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,800 This happens in 1943. 219 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,040 And the experiment went terribly wrong and was covered up when the ship was transported 220 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,480 through time and space with some of the sailors, marine materializing fused into the middle of 221 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,560 the ship, among other things happened. 222 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,040 Did I say go listen to the episode because you should? 223 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,160 This was already kicking around in the paranormal world for a good little bit. 224 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,960 Supposedly happened in 1943 when in 1979 it gained large-scale popularity when the book 225 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,160 came out, the Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility penned by, well you know that already, 226 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:32,720 I told you. 227 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,600 Those two dudes. 228 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,200 One of which the episode's about. 229 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,240 The book purported to be a factual account, obviously, and expanded on stories of the 230 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:46,400 bizarre happenings, lost unified theories by Albert Einstein, and government cover-ups 231 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,440 based on the Allende and Allen letters to Jessup. 232 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,320 Well it would have ideally been a factual account as it was sold, it was actually based 233 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,280 on hearsay and no eyewitness testimony. 234 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,120 Shit, did I just spoil it for everyone? 235 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,880 Well if you're here, you may or may not have listened to the Philadelphia Experiment, but 236 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:03,760 I still may have. 237 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,520 Anyhow, go listen to the episode, it's fake. 238 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:06,240 Yeah. 239 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,520 Yeah, sorry. 240 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,520 Just like World War II, it didn't happen. 241 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,240 They may not even go back now because I just spoiled it for them, but just do it. 242 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Okay, listen to this first and you can go. 243 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,920 Well, I mean do what you want. 244 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:24,080 This book, Moore says, was a bestseller, but in the spirit of Bill Moore, I did not fact-check 245 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,960 that, so I don't know if it was a bestseller or he just said that, so do with that information 246 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:29,520 what you will. 247 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:35,600 It is essentially what most people who have an interest in paranormal topics would recognize 248 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:42,000 prevenantly today, I would say, their book as the Philadelphia Experiment as a whole. 249 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,160 This is probably the story they know. 250 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,520 It was adapted into a movie in 1984, which then results in another witness of the experiment 251 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,480 coming forward, but you already knew that because you listened to the original episode. 252 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,480 Oh god, and I love that guy. 253 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,280 He is fantastic. 254 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:56,160 Yes. 255 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,960 Yeah, the whole thing's a mess. 256 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,760 I trust you committed it to memory and are caught up here, right? 257 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:04,720 You came back. 258 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:05,120 We're all. 259 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,960 Hello, welcome back to Turn into the Fridge. 260 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:16,080 Then it had a direct video sequel and the legend was also the basis for James F. 261 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,720 David's 2000 science fiction novel, Ship of the Damned, spooky. 262 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Never heard of it. 263 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,440 According to author Barna William Donovan, the Philadelphia Experiment project in 264 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:32,480 visibility was, quote, largely dismissed even by the most committed conspiracy and 265 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:37,840 supernatural buffs as nothing more than a shoddy uncritical repeat of a lingering and 266 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,280 incomplete unsubstantiated urban myth, end quote. 267 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,920 Other critics argued that when writing the Philadelphia Experiment, the authors made 268 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,520 no attempt to critically analyze the Allende allegations. 269 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,480 The two writers instead took the outlandish claims of a shady individual no one had ever 270 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,960 met and used them as their primary source of endorsing the conspiracy theory of a 271 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,040 secret government project that turned an entire ship invisible. 272 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,040 I mean, I guess they had an audience in mind to be running with the story. 273 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,160 So I mean, look at the co-authors background. 274 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:15,280 They could have just taken it and ran and not cared to be doing the research, 275 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,320 which is why they're getting, you know, feathers ruffled in the community because it's not true. 276 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,760 Anyway, it's been said by Mike Dash, historian that many authors looking at you, Bill, and 277 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,680 whatever that other guy's name was. 278 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,120 After that, have Jessup appeared to have conducted... 279 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,160 Are they not both Bill? 280 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,920 Hmm, I don't know. 281 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,280 I have to scroll up. 282 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,000 It's too far back. 283 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,280 It's Charles. 284 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Charles and Bill. 285 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,320 Jessup appeared to have conducted little or no research of their own. 286 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:48,000 For example, Allende Allen was often described as mysterious and difficult to locate, but 287 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,400 Gorman determined Allende Allen's identity after only a few phone calls. 288 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,640 Yeah, I love that story. 289 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,680 God, please go listen to that episode. 290 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,120 I appreciate the time and effort Moore put into this book. 291 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,280 I have also done a fair amount of research on the alleged Philadelphia experiment and 292 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,400 have located some of the same people and source that Moore has. 293 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,720 Yet, I have come up with information that is a bit different from his and conclusions that 294 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,920 are radically different. 295 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,160 Some of the logic could have been more rigid while keeping a seemingly objective stance 296 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,440 in some parts of the book. 297 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,480 In other places, he seemed convinced that the alleged experiment definitely did take place, 298 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,440 then before long he appears to be weighing the matter again. 299 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,640 One example of poor logic is on page 99 where he notes that the Eldridge, the destroyer 300 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,640 purportedly evolved, when sold to Greece in 1951 had lost some 660 tons of weight. 301 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:05,600 What was removed? 302 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,960 Moore suggests electronic equipment causing invisibility. 303 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:14,080 Why did he not suggest guns and other implements of war like what the ship was used for? 304 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,480 Moore suggests that whatever happened to the destroyer might be tied to the strange 305 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,720 series of events and disappearances that seem to plague the Bermuda Triangle, 306 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,120 where he says, we find or suspect that presence of electromagnetic clouds, 307 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:30,240 crafts stuck in time and other dimensions of time and space. 308 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,320 This suggests either that he has not read my 1975 book, 309 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,040 The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solve, but showed the poor evidence and hypocrisy that led to 310 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,520 the creation of the manufactured mystery, or he chose to ignore my information, 311 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,080 or he let Berlitz write that part of the book. 312 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,720 None of these alternatives are an excuse for one who claims to be a skeptical researcher. 313 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,600 The Philadelphia experiment has a healthy dose of paranoia, of establishment cover-ups for the 314 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,400 sake of mankind, as do all books of this nature. 315 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,160 The Philadelphia experiment obviously took a long time to research, 316 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,400 much of it interesting and well thought out, but there is not the faintest smidgen of 317 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,120 substantial evidence that the incident ever occurred. 318 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,040 It is frequently said that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, 319 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:18,160 but there comes a time when the continuing absence of evidence makes the phenomenon appear to be 320 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,720 all the more likely to be absent. 321 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,560 It's a great way to end that article. 322 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,600 It's not ended yet. 323 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,040 This part's my favorite, this will end it. 324 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,680 The oddest line in the Philadelphia experiment is the last one, 325 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,800 which I suspect more probably regrets using. 326 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,720 Quote, if the Philadelphia experiment never happened as described, 327 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:45,440 what actually did happen in the high-security area of the Philadelphia Navy Yard in October 1943? 328 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,000 End quote, not surprisingly, in an interview, more credited the line to Burlitz. 329 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,760 It is a very strange statement to make after 162 330 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,800 cases of evidence that supposedly showed that the alleged experiment did actually take place. 331 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,480 If the experiment didn't happen as described, what actually did happen? 332 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,000 Obviously something else in the whole invisibility business is part 333 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,560 misinterpretation, part hoax, and part show biz. 334 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,160 Though I like that, he just kind of is like, why would you end your book like that? 335 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,000 You just like wrote all the evidence there to say it did happen. 336 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,240 During the publicizing of this book, Moore renews his friendship with 337 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,960 Stanton Freedman while lecturing in Minnesota. 338 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,400 That name's gonna come up a few times over the next couple of episodes. 339 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,160 Turns out they shared a number of eyewitness accounts related to the Roswell incident of 1947. 340 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,760 Moore tracked down original newspaper accounts about the case, 341 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:42,160 and by mid 1979 they were discussing a book on a long forgotten event. 342 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,960 And surely this book will be better than the last book, 343 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,320 which brings us to the Roswell incident, 1980, written with Charles Burlitz. 344 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,040 You will notice I didn't mention Stanton Freedman after I just said that they kind of 345 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,880 shared a number of eyewitness accounts. 346 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:02,640 Moore's original publisher, Grosset and Dunlap, insisted that Burlitz would again write the final draft. 347 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,400 Freedman and Moore both provided all their research and sent them off to Burlitz, 348 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,000 and Freedman only receives a mention in acknowledgements, by the way. 349 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,200 So let's talk about the book. 350 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,160 Roswell incident, probably one of the better known books about the Roswell incident. 351 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,520 Controversial, even within the UFO community, however, 352 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,160 it does get people talking about Roswell again close to 30 years later. 353 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:30,960 The book helped to popularize the story of debris recovered in 1947 by personnel of the 354 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,680 Roswell Army airfield in the infamous crash in Roswell, New Mexico. 355 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,800 Yes, this is the originating place that you would know that from this book. 356 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,000 I repeat, this book is released 30 years after the crash. 357 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,120 They're interviewing people for new information, and the book includes the first mention of alien 358 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,200 bodies being recovered from the wreck. 359 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,000 This book made Roswell into what you know it as today, which is funny. 360 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,120 These are now two books that have greatly influenced the community. 361 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,120 Three, if you can out the Bermuda Triangle. 362 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:03,920 That's true. 363 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,200 That's not Bill Moore, but 364 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,640 Bill Moore didn't have a hand in that. 365 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,720 No, but somebody evolved with Bill Moore. 366 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:09,600 Yeah, it has. 367 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,640 Yeah, so I mean, Berlitz has more under his belt that are shaping things that we think of today, 368 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,480 which is super weird to think of. 369 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,240 So this made Roswell into the myth it is today. 370 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,200 We do have an episode on what happened with Roswell, so go back and listen to that. 371 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,720 I'm going to summarize the book up very mediocrely. 372 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,840 So let's get on to the stuff that we're really here for. 373 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:38,480 Roswell starts raising eyebrows again in 1978 when retired Lieutenant Colonel Jesse Marcell 374 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:44,480 reveals to Stanton Freedman that he believed the debris he retrieved was of extraterrestrial origin 375 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,680 and that what he posed within the photo was a sham and not the same objects they had retrieved 376 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,720 from the ranch. 377 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:56,000 Since we haven't really covered this in an episode, I don't think I'll let you in on what the book is 378 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:56,640 about. 379 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,840 The book argues that three decades after the original incident, an extraterrestrial craft 380 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,440 was flying over the New Mexico desert to observe nuclear weapons activity when a lightning strike 381 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,880 killed the alien crew and that after discovering the crash, US government engaged in the cover-up. 382 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,520 If only they had known we had lightning on this planet. 383 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:16,880 Exactly. 384 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,600 You never know. 385 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,320 Maybe they don't have lightning where they come from. 386 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,880 Yeah, clearly just an earth-based phenomenon. 387 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,920 Yeah, Serpo didn't have lightning, did it? 388 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,440 In the 13 years they were there, they never mentioned it. 389 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,360 Additional accounts by Bill Brazell, Son of Rancher, Mac Brazell. 390 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:41,600 Okay, I think that's, I mean, we deleted that part of the episode so it doesn't matter anymore. 391 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,120 Son of Rancher, Mac Brazell, neighbor Floyd Proctor and Walt Whitman, Jr., Son of Newsman, 392 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:53,760 W.E. Whitman, who had interviewed Mac Brazell, suggested the material Marcel recovered had 393 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,400 super strength not associated with the weather blow. 394 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:02,400 As I mentioned, this book first puts forth the contention that debris was recovered by Marcel 395 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,760 at the Foster Ranch. 396 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,120 Visible in photographs showing Marcel posing with the debris was substituted for debris from 397 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,840 a weather device as part of the cover-up, obviously. 398 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,640 The book also claimed that the debris recovered from the ranch was not permitted a close inspection 399 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,280 by the press. 400 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,760 The efforts by the military were described as being intended to discredit and counteract 401 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,320 the growing hysteria towards flying saucers. 402 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,120 This was the first book to introduce the controversial second-hand stories of civil 403 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:34,960 engineer Grady in quote Barney Barnett and a group of archaeology students from an 404 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:40,400 unidentified university encountering wreckage and alien bodies while on the plains of San 405 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,200 Augustine before being escorted away by the army. 406 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:48,720 A second-hand Barnett story set 150 miles to the west of Corona were described by 407 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,440 youth phologists as the one aspect of the account that seemed to conflict with the 408 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,240 basic story about the retrieval of highly unusual debris from a sheep ranch outside 409 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,800 Corona, New Mexico in 1947. 410 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,000 Many alleged first-hand accounts of the Roswell incident actually contained information from 411 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,760 the Aztec, New Mexico UFO incident, a hoax flying saucer crash which gained national 412 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,600 notoriety after being promoted by journalist Frank Scully in his articles in a 1950 book 413 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,280 behind the flying saucers. 414 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,920 The authors claim to have interviewed over 90 witnesses, though the testimony of only 415 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,440 25 appear in the book. 416 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,320 Only seven of these people claim to have seen the debris. 417 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,280 Of these five claim to have handled it, two accounts of witness intimidation were included 418 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,240 in the book, including the accursion of Mac Brazell. 419 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,760 Independent researchers would find patterns of embellishment in Jesse Marcell's account, 420 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:47,600 including provably false statements about his military career and educational background. 421 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,120 So that's the book. 422 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,120 I just really want to drive home. 423 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:57,920 First of all, Jesse Marcell's exaggerated accounts of things that he came forward, 424 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,440 what, three decades after this happened with new information that these people are going 425 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,520 and finding new witnesses and stuff like that, like so many years later. 426 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:14,000 And it's just a completely different story that is now kind of accepted as the story. 427 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,920 If you hear it anywhere, right, that's what you're hearing. 428 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:22,560 They recovered alien bodies and a craft, which is not seen on the original article. 429 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,760 Or I mean, the government put out a statement saying they caught a flying saucer and that 430 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,200 was about the extent of it. 431 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,160 So let's look at some critiques of the book anthropologist Charles Ziegler describes the 432 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,760 1980 book as version one of the Roswell myth. 433 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,960 Her lips and more narrative was dominant until the late 1980s, when other authors attracted 434 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,600 by the commercial potential of writing about Roswell started producing rival accounts. 435 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,640 The book gives an inaccurate timeline of some of the events and its claims are backed up 436 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,720 by very few direct eyewitnesses. 437 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,840 Rather, a collection of wild hearsay by second and third hand accounts, which offer up speculation 438 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,520 and unwarranted conclusions. 439 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,880 Critics calling it a quick and sloppy addition to more and brillettes collection of speculation 440 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,000 about the paranormal trying to fill a publishing quota rather than a rigorous examination of 441 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,320 what could amount to if ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, most amazing story in human history. 442 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:25,520 Years later, Moore himself regaled the book as quote, disgraceful hodgepodge of fact and fiction, 443 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,160 and quote, he would deny writing any part of it. 444 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,080 It's hard to deny if your name's on it. 445 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,800 Yeah, I probably think about that. 446 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,640 Moving slightly on, Moore is out one day promoting the Roswell book when this is him talking, 447 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,920 quote, I got a phone call after appearing on a radio show from a man who said, quote, within a quote, 448 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,720 you're the only person we've heard talk about this subject who seems to know what he's talking about 449 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,440 end quote within a quote, but still quote, he convinced me that he was a government intelligence 450 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,600 agent and wanted to begin disseminating some information about UFOs to the public and bid quote. 451 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,880 In exchange for providing the researcher with new information, Moore was to observe specific 452 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,120 individuals within the UFO field. 453 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,800 And that's where we're going to leave off for part one. 454 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,080 And the story will continue from here. 455 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,280 I just have a comment that I'll ask you what your thoughts are. 456 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,720 Both books, I mean, I've kept saying it through the whole episode. 457 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320 They're heavy hitters in their own right and to the regular person. 458 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:31,040 I'm not really sure how well known most of this information actually is that they're based so much 459 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,200 on made up information. 460 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,200 Yeah, nothing that's actually real. 461 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,280 And actually, if you listen to shows like Coast to Coast AM, 462 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,640 they're not having people come on and being like, yeah, the Roswell incident is full of 463 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:45,200 shit. 464 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,880 And here's what actually happened or the Philadelphia experiment, like that book was all made up 465 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:51,520 bullshit. 466 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,840 You're not going to hear that on those radio shows. 467 00:27:53,840 --> 00:28:00,400 And most of what you're hearing about either of those two events are the mainstream stories. 468 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,520 Still what you hear about either of those. 469 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,960 Well, I wouldn't call it mainstream because this is not a mainstream story. 470 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,160 But like this story that comes from this book, despite the fact that it has been disproven 471 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,760 by multiple people, many times. 472 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,640 Quite easily. 473 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,280 If you look at it at all. 474 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,640 Very easily. 475 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:16,880 Yeah. 476 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,120 Like if you read anything outside of that, there's nothing supporting it. 477 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:22,160 No, not at all. 478 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,360 And and like I said, if you turn on Coast to Coast or you like Google Roswell or whatever, 479 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,080 this is what you're going to get is these stories. 480 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:36,160 So that kind of sets us up for going into the next part and what we're doing with Bill Moore 481 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,680 and just he's a heavy hitter, which I didn't really realize, but he is. 482 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,760 So yeah, any other thoughts? 483 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:50,160 No, honestly, his name is too just forgettable that it just kind of slips by into the ether 484 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,120 that is Journey to the Fringe dialogue. 485 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:53,680 Yeah. 486 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:59,840 And just gets forgotten behind the names of the Dodies and the Hoglins and the cannibals in Japan. 487 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,160 So that despite the fact that they come up more than those people, 488 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,680 maybe not Dodie, but everything else, it's just kind of forgotten. 489 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,360 Like I couldn't remember his name before this. 490 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,920 When you're telling me you're doing an episode on him, I thought you're talking about 491 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,400 the Bill from the Serpo episode who? 492 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,520 Oh, Bill Ryan. 493 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,320 Bill Ryan, who super interrogated that old man. 494 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:20,960 I know. 495 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,200 And this guy, he comes up in, no, I don't want to give it away. 496 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:31,680 He comes up in so many of our episodes, but we just kind of glossed over it just enough 497 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,600 that we are like, eh, our episode's not about him at this point. 498 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,360 So we're just kind of like, oh, and Bill Moore and moved on. 499 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:39,680 Yeah. 500 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,920 And it's the name you don't really think about too much. 501 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:42,160 Yeah. 502 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,400 And now that I'm looking at him as the main character, 503 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,760 you're in for a special treat with where this goes. 504 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,120 I think he's going to earn his infamy Journey to the Fringe history. 505 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,320 Is that a good way to put it? 506 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,280 That is. 507 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,280 And I think that's a great spot to end. 508 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,280 I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea. 509 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,960 We are Journey to the Fringe. 510 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,120 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you all next week. 511 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,600 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 512 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:17,680 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow, 513 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,800 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 514 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,400 Also, please, if possible, leave a five star review, 515 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,960 as that really helps us in the algorithms. 516 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,000 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 517 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,440 I bet you we are there. 518 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,760 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes, 519 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,160 or tell us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, please send us an email at 520 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,040 journeytothefringe at gmail.com. 521 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:57,600 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.