From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe, the stuff recurring dreams are made of, which
is mostly to spend a disbelief during the event and then coming to reality and realizing
it what really happened after it.
We are your recurring host, Taylor and Chelsea, and today we are looking at another asshole,
not just any asshole, one of the UFO community varietal.
Chelsea, why don't you tell me more about this varietal, you know, like it's vintage,
terroir, climate and soil type.
Sorry, I will be telling you, and you're right, it is of the UFO community type asshole, not
just like the guy that cut me off in traffic the other day, not like the mundane asshole.
He might be part of that community, but it's kind of like a square's a rectangle, what
a rectangle's not a square.
Yeah, I can't not say that it was him, but we'll just go with the like better asshole
that you're here for, which is the UFO kind.
Let's get into the soil of him.
As always, I have to tell you how I came to my topic.
I was thinking about Richard Doty, because he's been coming up a lot lately.
He's on the mind a lot.
He is on the mind a lot.
He comes up a lot more than you would think.
Particularly with all the stuff going on with the current disclosure stories, but yes, I
think we will leave that for a later date.
Not only that, but just in our podcast, he's been coming up a lot.
In the journey to the fringe universe, he is a he comes up a lot and it's weird.
And then he's been coming up in the news as well.
And yeah, so and then we go.
I'm taking seriously.
Yeah, it's super weird.
Anyhow, naturally, I thought I would do a little digging into Bill Moore who really has been
a slow burn in the journey to the fringe, kind of in the background, I would say.
And he's been revealing himself to us slowly over the life of journey to the fringe.
And it really has been a journey.
We weren't kidding you on that one.
He's come up a lot, yet somehow he still kind of blends into the background for me.
And if you were to just randomly ask me, like, do you think Bill Moore is an asshole?
I probably would have no idea who you're talking about.
But if you asked me about any of the things he's been involved in, then I'd be like, OK, yeah,
I know who you're talking about.
I just have to wonder if somebody comes up to you and says a random name and says, are they an asshole?
Is your general answer, I don't know if you don't recognize the name or is it yet probably?
Well, it depends on a lot of things.
The mouth feel of the name, whether or not I actually do know them.
And how cheeky I'm feeling that day, I guess.
I would also not just put mouth feel in there but syllables in the name.
Yeah, it's true.
And whether I could not turn that.
And if they submit the name written and it is not written the right way, boy, howdy are the assholes?
Yeah, oh yeah.
A lot of assholes out there just based on that.
So in thinking about Richard Doty, Bill Moore, I figured it was about time we compiled everything
into one place for a nice little three or four part episode.
You know, TikTok length.
Yeah, I'm really into the multiple episodes now after Britney Spears.
To get us started.
I'm very disappointed you didn't just say oops we did it again.
It's too late now and plus you said it.
So to get us started, I quite like this quote from an article written by Don Schmidt
from which I will keep the title a secret for now as it will give absolutely everything away
and then there's no point of three or four episodes.
But nonetheless, I felt like this was a great introduction to he who is Bill Moore quote
somehow which remains a mystery to this day more either stumbled upon or orchestrated
one of the most controversial topics both in and outside of the subject of UFOs.
To some, it remains an enigma both misunderstood and a willing participant.
To others, his name and actions are considered Judas like in their implications.
Therefore, we will examine how a high school teacher found himself engulfed in the middle
of either an early attempted disclosure or a multi tiered game of disinformation possibly
intended to take down the entire UFO community end quote.
And that's just a little taste to give you something to look forward to.
Obviously, they're referring to what they talk about in the article and I mean also Bill Moore
which is why I included it here but it also works equally well to show you what we're in for.
There's a little foreshadowing.
We love some foreshadowing.
It'll help you stick around and finish out the episodes because we're in for a long one.
And we're so good at it outside of that.
Yeah, so obviously on this long of an episode we have to start at the beginning.
So Bill Moore was born October 31st, 1943, a Scorpio.
We don't usually start at that beginning.
Yeah, it's the beginning.
I need to fill out three or four episodes a year.
Not really sure where he was born but he attended The O'College in Greenville, Pennsylvania.
So possibly there.
I'm assuming he took teaching or something because he taught language and humanities
at various high schools then left teaching to preserve UFOs.
It was his passion.
I'm fairly passionate about it as well but I wouldn't just like pick up and quit like what
makes me money and be like I'm dedicating my life to UFOs now.
But you're also not a teacher in the American system.
That's true.
I mean this is probably gonna pay off about the same.
So eventually he makes it to be the Arizona State Section Director of MUFON, the Mutual UFO
Network.
And he also did some investigations for National Investigations Committee on Aerial
Phenomenon, which is NICAP, etc.
That was from Wikipedia.
Here is from the author page on the Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility.
I'm not sure which one is more right because there's contradictions.
William Elmore is an English and French teacher in the Minnesota school system,
a playwright, author, and a playwright.
Author of the school play.
Author and investigator of the unexplained.
His collaboration with Charles Berlitz on the Philadelphia Experiment has taken him on
investigations throughout the United States during the past four years.
This is rife with spelling errors by the way.
Moore lives in Minnesota with his wife and three children.
His initial interest in the Philadelphia Experiment stems from a meeting with Charles
Berlitz while Berlitz was on a trip to the country.
His story starts with the Philadelphia Experiment.
Yep.
That's where the name's familiar.
Damn it.
Right?
He's come up so much.
Yep.
But he kind of like blends into the bathroom.
It's such a bland name.
Exactly.
I know.
And it is a wild ride, guys.
There could be a Michael Smith we've talked about in every episode 17 times.
I'm not going to remember the name.
He's a wild ride, so just strap yourself in.
Okay.
And we have to just hold on.
I'll get to it.
Moore was one of the most prominent members in the UFO community in the late 1970s to 1980s,
which is why I'm so shocked that you're like, who are we talking about now?
Even though we've talked about him a million times, I can't play some.
So he left a considerable footprint.
His involvement with legit UFOlogists, such as Tanton Friedman, solidified Moore as a
prominent person of the community, asshole and UFO community.
Among other things we'll learn about that contribute to his infamy that no one can remember.
You'll remember him after this.
I will commit to that.
After the fourth episode, you'll know who he is.
So I sure hope.
Yeah.
That's boring old Bill Moore.
In all his research and natural writing ability, he ended up writing some particularly well-known
books.
First up, the Philadelphia Experiment, Project Invisibility, 1979, written with Charles Berlitz.
The first question you may or not be asking is, who the hell is Berlitz?
A guy who wrote some books with Moore.
Yeah, he was a big paranormal writer.
He was also an Army Intelligence Officer at one point, which is pretty mind blowing how
much that comes up and how many times Moore comes into contact with that type of person.
Probably potential for a future episode on, I think we've already talked about that,
people who were intelligence officers.
We've talked actually about doing an episode specifically on people who turn from military
intelligence to UFO asshole.
Yeah, I think it's on our list.
Yeah, because it randomly came up on that one guy and I said, how hilarious would it be if it
was him and like as soon as I read the first few sentences on his Wikipedia page immediately,
was a military propagandist.
Yeah, it's really weird how much it comes up in this.
Berlitz also penned these books.
Remember, he's an intelligence officer, by the way.
The Mystery of Atlantis, Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds, The Bermuda Triangle, Without a Trace,
Doomsday 1999 AD, Atlantis to Eaths Continent, Atlantis the Lost Continent Revealed,
The Lost Ship of Noah in Search of the Ark of Errorat, The Dragon's Triangle, World of the
Incredible but True World of Strange Phenomenon.
I was about to read the publisher as a part of the title, but that's not great.
He really liked Atlantis.
He did.
And ocean-based phenomena, I guess.
Because like of those, we included the Dragon's Triangle, which is in the Sea of Japan,
and also the Search for Noah's Ark more or less, because that's the vessel of Errorat,
which is also a vessel that may be on the ocean.
So I would consider that ocean, even though it no longer would be.
Yeah.
I mean, I picture a Bill Moore as somebody who has a weird fondness for the sea in a way that you
don't want to talk to him about it.
This doesn't feel more.
This is Berlitz.
Oh, okay.
This is the guy he's co-authoring it with.
And if you remember from Brack, when we did the Bermuda Triangle, this book came up as one of
the sources most people talk about in relation to things, weird things happening about the Bermuda
Triangle.
And it's just openly kind of like a book based on facts that are made up and just,
I shouldn't say made up, highly pushed.
What do you call it when you like take everything and make it so it makes your point?
Oh, you know what I mean.
Yeah, I know.
Like, it's skewed to make it so that it's weird, but it's not.
So really discredit it as well.
Yeah, you're only looking at the things that prove your point and completely discredit.
Not yet.
Well, that's not quite the word I'm looking for.
No, it's not the word I'm looking for either, but that's what it is.
And that kind of made-
Only bringing forward the things that prove your point, despite the fact that there's other
things out there that completely easily disprove it.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's exactly what you mean.
There's a word for it.
I can't remember it.
No, neither can I.
And so his book, the Bermuda Triangle, made the Bermuda Triangle what it is.
So back to the Philadelphia experiment.
We've done a whole episode on the Philadelphia experiment, so I would highly suggest to listen
for that full story, but I will attempt to summarize it for you here in a couple of sentences
because I'm not wasting time when we've done a full episode on it.
So go back, listen to that.
The Philadelphia experiment was an alleged event claimed to have been witnessed by a dude
who is an ex-merchant mariner.
Whatever that means.
I don't know what a merchant mariner is.
In a naval shipyard in, I've forgotten the name of the city now.
Just kidding, it's Philadelphia.
Haha.
Are you sure?
Haha, yeah.
Haha, stop.
This dude writes letters that talk about this experiment in Philadelphia where the military
tried to cloak the USS Eldridge, a ship from enemy radar by manipulating magnetic fields.
This happens in 1943.
And the experiment went terribly wrong and was covered up when the ship was transported
through time and space with some of the sailors, marine materializing fused into the middle of
the ship, among other things happened.
Did I say go listen to the episode because you should?
This was already kicking around in the paranormal world for a good little bit.
Supposedly happened in 1943 when in 1979 it gained large-scale popularity when the book
came out, the Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility penned by, well you know that already,
I told you.
Those two dudes.
One of which the episode's about.
The book purported to be a factual account, obviously, and expanded on stories of the
bizarre happenings, lost unified theories by Albert Einstein, and government cover-ups
based on the Allende and Allen letters to Jessup.
Well it would have ideally been a factual account as it was sold, it was actually based
on hearsay and no eyewitness testimony.
Shit, did I just spoil it for everyone?
Well if you're here, you may or may not have listened to the Philadelphia Experiment, but
I still may have.
Anyhow, go listen to the episode, it's fake.
Yeah.
Yeah, sorry.
Just like World War II, it didn't happen.
They may not even go back now because I just spoiled it for them, but just do it.
Okay, listen to this first and you can go.
Well, I mean do what you want.
This book, Moore says, was a bestseller, but in the spirit of Bill Moore, I did not fact-check
that, so I don't know if it was a bestseller or he just said that, so do with that information
what you will.
It is essentially what most people who have an interest in paranormal topics would recognize
prevenantly today, I would say, their book as the Philadelphia Experiment as a whole.
This is probably the story they know.
It was adapted into a movie in 1984, which then results in another witness of the experiment
coming forward, but you already knew that because you listened to the original episode.
Oh god, and I love that guy.
He is fantastic.
Yes.
Yeah, the whole thing's a mess.
I trust you committed it to memory and are caught up here, right?
You came back.
We're all.
Hello, welcome back to Turn into the Fridge.
Then it had a direct video sequel and the legend was also the basis for James F.
David's 2000 science fiction novel, Ship of the Damned, spooky.
Never heard of it.
According to author Barna William Donovan, the Philadelphia Experiment project in
visibility was, quote, largely dismissed even by the most committed conspiracy and
supernatural buffs as nothing more than a shoddy uncritical repeat of a lingering and
incomplete unsubstantiated urban myth, end quote.
Other critics argued that when writing the Philadelphia Experiment, the authors made
no attempt to critically analyze the Allende allegations.
The two writers instead took the outlandish claims of a shady individual no one had ever
met and used them as their primary source of endorsing the conspiracy theory of a
secret government project that turned an entire ship invisible.
I mean, I guess they had an audience in mind to be running with the story.
So I mean, look at the co-authors background.
They could have just taken it and ran and not cared to be doing the research,
which is why they're getting, you know, feathers ruffled in the community because it's not true.
Anyway, it's been said by Mike Dash, historian that many authors looking at you, Bill, and
whatever that other guy's name was.
After that, have Jessup appeared to have conducted...
Are they not both Bill?
Hmm, I don't know.
I have to scroll up.
It's too far back.
It's Charles.
Charles and Bill.
Jessup appeared to have conducted little or no research of their own.
For example, Allende Allen was often described as mysterious and difficult to locate, but
Gorman determined Allende Allen's identity after only a few phone calls.
Yeah, I love that story.
God, please go listen to that episode.
I appreciate the time and effort Moore put into this book.
I have also done a fair amount of research on the alleged Philadelphia experiment and
have located some of the same people and source that Moore has.
Yet, I have come up with information that is a bit different from his and conclusions that
are radically different.
Some of the logic could have been more rigid while keeping a seemingly objective stance
in some parts of the book.
In other places, he seemed convinced that the alleged experiment definitely did take place,
then before long he appears to be weighing the matter again.
One example of poor logic is on page 99 where he notes that the Eldridge, the destroyer
purportedly evolved, when sold to Greece in 1951 had lost some 660 tons of weight.
What was removed?
Moore suggests electronic equipment causing invisibility.
Why did he not suggest guns and other implements of war like what the ship was used for?
Moore suggests that whatever happened to the destroyer might be tied to the strange
series of events and disappearances that seem to plague the Bermuda Triangle,
where he says, we find or suspect that presence of electromagnetic clouds,
crafts stuck in time and other dimensions of time and space.
This suggests either that he has not read my 1975 book,
The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solve, but showed the poor evidence and hypocrisy that led to
the creation of the manufactured mystery, or he chose to ignore my information,
or he let Berlitz write that part of the book.
None of these alternatives are an excuse for one who claims to be a skeptical researcher.
The Philadelphia experiment has a healthy dose of paranoia, of establishment cover-ups for the
sake of mankind, as do all books of this nature.
The Philadelphia experiment obviously took a long time to research,
much of it interesting and well thought out, but there is not the faintest smidgen of
substantial evidence that the incident ever occurred.
It is frequently said that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,
but there comes a time when the continuing absence of evidence makes the phenomenon appear to be
all the more likely to be absent.
It's a great way to end that article.
It's not ended yet.
This part's my favorite, this will end it.
The oddest line in the Philadelphia experiment is the last one,
which I suspect more probably regrets using.
Quote, if the Philadelphia experiment never happened as described,
what actually did happen in the high-security area of the Philadelphia Navy Yard in October 1943?
End quote, not surprisingly, in an interview, more credited the line to Burlitz.
It is a very strange statement to make after 162
cases of evidence that supposedly showed that the alleged experiment did actually take place.
If the experiment didn't happen as described, what actually did happen?
Obviously something else in the whole invisibility business is part
misinterpretation, part hoax, and part show biz.
Though I like that, he just kind of is like, why would you end your book like that?
You just like wrote all the evidence there to say it did happen.
During the publicizing of this book, Moore renews his friendship with
Stanton Freedman while lecturing in Minnesota.
That name's gonna come up a few times over the next couple of episodes.
Turns out they shared a number of eyewitness accounts related to the Roswell incident of 1947.
Moore tracked down original newspaper accounts about the case,
and by mid 1979 they were discussing a book on a long forgotten event.
And surely this book will be better than the last book,
which brings us to the Roswell incident, 1980, written with Charles Burlitz.
You will notice I didn't mention Stanton Freedman after I just said that they kind of
shared a number of eyewitness accounts.
Moore's original publisher, Grosset and Dunlap, insisted that Burlitz would again write the final draft.
Freedman and Moore both provided all their research and sent them off to Burlitz,
and Freedman only receives a mention in acknowledgements, by the way.
So let's talk about the book.
Roswell incident, probably one of the better known books about the Roswell incident.
Controversial, even within the UFO community, however,
it does get people talking about Roswell again close to 30 years later.
The book helped to popularize the story of debris recovered in 1947 by personnel of the
Roswell Army airfield in the infamous crash in Roswell, New Mexico.
Yes, this is the originating place that you would know that from this book.
I repeat, this book is released 30 years after the crash.
They're interviewing people for new information, and the book includes the first mention of alien
bodies being recovered from the wreck.
This book made Roswell into what you know it as today, which is funny.
These are now two books that have greatly influenced the community.
Three, if you can out the Bermuda Triangle.
That's true.
That's not Bill Moore, but
Bill Moore didn't have a hand in that.
No, but somebody evolved with Bill Moore.
Yeah, it has.
Yeah, so I mean, Berlitz has more under his belt that are shaping things that we think of today,
which is super weird to think of.
So this made Roswell into the myth it is today.
We do have an episode on what happened with Roswell, so go back and listen to that.
I'm going to summarize the book up very mediocrely.
So let's get on to the stuff that we're really here for.
Roswell starts raising eyebrows again in 1978 when retired Lieutenant Colonel Jesse Marcell
reveals to Stanton Freedman that he believed the debris he retrieved was of extraterrestrial origin
and that what he posed within the photo was a sham and not the same objects they had retrieved
from the ranch.
Since we haven't really covered this in an episode, I don't think I'll let you in on what the book is
about.
The book argues that three decades after the original incident, an extraterrestrial craft
was flying over the New Mexico desert to observe nuclear weapons activity when a lightning strike
killed the alien crew and that after discovering the crash, US government engaged in the cover-up.
If only they had known we had lightning on this planet.
Exactly.
You never know.
Maybe they don't have lightning where they come from.
Yeah, clearly just an earth-based phenomenon.
Yeah, Serpo didn't have lightning, did it?
In the 13 years they were there, they never mentioned it.
Additional accounts by Bill Brazell, Son of Rancher, Mac Brazell.
Okay, I think that's, I mean, we deleted that part of the episode so it doesn't matter anymore.
Son of Rancher, Mac Brazell, neighbor Floyd Proctor and Walt Whitman, Jr., Son of Newsman,
W.E. Whitman, who had interviewed Mac Brazell, suggested the material Marcel recovered had
super strength not associated with the weather blow.
As I mentioned, this book first puts forth the contention that debris was recovered by Marcel
at the Foster Ranch.
Visible in photographs showing Marcel posing with the debris was substituted for debris from
a weather device as part of the cover-up, obviously.
The book also claimed that the debris recovered from the ranch was not permitted a close inspection
by the press.
The efforts by the military were described as being intended to discredit and counteract
the growing hysteria towards flying saucers.
This was the first book to introduce the controversial second-hand stories of civil
engineer Grady in quote Barney Barnett and a group of archaeology students from an
unidentified university encountering wreckage and alien bodies while on the plains of San
Augustine before being escorted away by the army.
A second-hand Barnett story set 150 miles to the west of Corona were described by
youth phologists as the one aspect of the account that seemed to conflict with the
basic story about the retrieval of highly unusual debris from a sheep ranch outside
Corona, New Mexico in 1947.
Many alleged first-hand accounts of the Roswell incident actually contained information from
the Aztec, New Mexico UFO incident, a hoax flying saucer crash which gained national
notoriety after being promoted by journalist Frank Scully in his articles in a 1950 book
behind the flying saucers.
The authors claim to have interviewed over 90 witnesses, though the testimony of only
25 appear in the book.
Only seven of these people claim to have seen the debris.
Of these five claim to have handled it, two accounts of witness intimidation were included
in the book, including the accursion of Mac Brazell.
Independent researchers would find patterns of embellishment in Jesse Marcell's account,
including provably false statements about his military career and educational background.
So that's the book.
I just really want to drive home.
First of all, Jesse Marcell's exaggerated accounts of things that he came forward,
what, three decades after this happened with new information that these people are going
and finding new witnesses and stuff like that, like so many years later.
And it's just a completely different story that is now kind of accepted as the story.
If you hear it anywhere, right, that's what you're hearing.
They recovered alien bodies and a craft, which is not seen on the original article.
Or I mean, the government put out a statement saying they caught a flying saucer and that
was about the extent of it.
So let's look at some critiques of the book anthropologist Charles Ziegler describes the
1980 book as version one of the Roswell myth.
Her lips and more narrative was dominant until the late 1980s, when other authors attracted
by the commercial potential of writing about Roswell started producing rival accounts.
The book gives an inaccurate timeline of some of the events and its claims are backed up
by very few direct eyewitnesses.
Rather, a collection of wild hearsay by second and third hand accounts, which offer up speculation
and unwarranted conclusions.
Critics calling it a quick and sloppy addition to more and brillettes collection of speculation
about the paranormal trying to fill a publishing quota rather than a rigorous examination of
what could amount to if ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, most amazing story in human history.
Years later, Moore himself regaled the book as quote, disgraceful hodgepodge of fact and fiction,
and quote, he would deny writing any part of it.
It's hard to deny if your name's on it.
Yeah, I probably think about that.
Moving slightly on, Moore is out one day promoting the Roswell book when this is him talking,
quote, I got a phone call after appearing on a radio show from a man who said, quote, within a quote,
you're the only person we've heard talk about this subject who seems to know what he's talking about
end quote within a quote, but still quote, he convinced me that he was a government intelligence
agent and wanted to begin disseminating some information about UFOs to the public and bid quote.
In exchange for providing the researcher with new information, Moore was to observe specific
individuals within the UFO field.
And that's where we're going to leave off for part one.
And the story will continue from here.
I just have a comment that I'll ask you what your thoughts are.
Both books, I mean, I've kept saying it through the whole episode.
They're heavy hitters in their own right and to the regular person.
I'm not really sure how well known most of this information actually is that they're based so much
on made up information.
Yeah, nothing that's actually real.
And actually, if you listen to shows like Coast to Coast AM,
they're not having people come on and being like, yeah, the Roswell incident is full of
shit.
And here's what actually happened or the Philadelphia experiment, like that book was all made up
bullshit.
You're not going to hear that on those radio shows.
And most of what you're hearing about either of those two events are the mainstream stories.
Still what you hear about either of those.
Well, I wouldn't call it mainstream because this is not a mainstream story.
But like this story that comes from this book, despite the fact that it has been disproven
by multiple people, many times.
Quite easily.
If you look at it at all.
Very easily.
Yeah.
Like if you read anything outside of that, there's nothing supporting it.
No, not at all.
And and like I said, if you turn on Coast to Coast or you like Google Roswell or whatever,
this is what you're going to get is these stories.
So that kind of sets us up for going into the next part and what we're doing with Bill Moore
and just he's a heavy hitter, which I didn't really realize, but he is.
So yeah, any other thoughts?
No, honestly, his name is too just forgettable that it just kind of slips by into the ether
that is Journey to the Fringe dialogue.
Yeah.
And just gets forgotten behind the names of the Dodies and the Hoglins and the cannibals in Japan.
So that despite the fact that they come up more than those people,
maybe not Dodie, but everything else, it's just kind of forgotten.
Like I couldn't remember his name before this.
When you're telling me you're doing an episode on him, I thought you're talking about
the Bill from the Serpo episode who?
Oh, Bill Ryan.
Bill Ryan, who super interrogated that old man.
I know.
And this guy, he comes up in, no, I don't want to give it away.
He comes up in so many of our episodes, but we just kind of glossed over it just enough
that we are like, eh, our episode's not about him at this point.
So we're just kind of like, oh, and Bill Moore and moved on.
Yeah.
And it's the name you don't really think about too much.
Yeah.
And now that I'm looking at him as the main character,
you're in for a special treat with where this goes.
I think he's going to earn his infamy Journey to the Fringe history.
Is that a good way to put it?
That is.
And I think that's a great spot to end.
I have been Taylor, here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you all next week.
Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe.
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