From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe.
Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe.
When life gives you lemons, say thanks and listen to Journey to the Fringe.
We are your lemonless host, Taylor and Chelsea, and although it is a Chelsea episode, I think
today she's gonna get dumb with it.
Without any more context, I think I will let her take it over from here.
I feel like that's what I do every episode that's in Chelsea.
I feel a little naked right now because we don't have the opener.
We're unprotected, yes.
Yeah, I guess I'm just gonna welcome you to Dulce, New Mexico, or specifically under
Dulce, New Mexico, where there's an underground base.
So let's just jump right into that.
I'm not used to doing it this way.
According to experts, underground base for Dulce, New Mexico experts, I said that in quotations,
by the way, the experts parts.
Quotations this week, am I right?
The area located around the Colorado, New Mexico border near the town of Dulce, New
Mexico lies a massive secret underground facility, as I kind of already said.
The base is said to be a seven-story compound that houses human animal hybrids, human alien hybrids,
human body parts stored in vats, extremely advanced technologies, and there's even been
some alien wars going on down there.
I knew it.
I know.
That's where I would hide it too.
Nothing else is going on in New Mexico.
I thought you were talking about underground but New Mexico, right?
Especially underground New Mexico.
Rumors of alien intervention in the area kind of started happening around the 1970s.
When a former New Mexico state police trooper named Gabe Valdez documented unexplained cattle
mutilations in the area according to the Santa Fe New Mexican paper.
In a radio interview, Valdez said the evidence that was left there, you know,
predators don't leave gas masks, glow sticks, radar chaff, chief.
I don't know what that is.
I don't know either.
They don't leave that.
Does radar get chaffed?
I don't know.
It's C-H-A-F-F.
I don't know what that is.
Anyhow, Valdez gave further interviews dealing sightings of black,
silent, sophisticated spacecraft and the discovery of a fetus inside a dead cow.
Not a calf fetus.
It looked like a human, a monkey and a frog.
Valdez told the history channels UFO hunters, don't have any bones in the head.
It was all full of water, Valdez thought.
The cows were incubating alien babies.
Does he have the fetus still?
No, I'm assuming not.
That's a very good question.
Somehow that didn't even occur to me to ask as I was typing this all up.
No, I'm assuming not.
Sounds like he was the only one that witnessed this thing.
Tim Anderson, a former police officer in Dulce,
claimed to have seen a UFO in the town in the late 1990s.
He's quoted as saying it let up the whole valley and just disappeared into the rocks.
End quote.
He told the Santa Fe, New Mexican.
He says, I just rubbed my eyes.
Did I really see that?
Now, what really exploded Dulce into what we pretty much know it as today,
which is what I just said with the underground base, not the town.
That's not what we know Dulce as today.
We know it as an underground base.
How many people actually live in Dulce, New Mexico?
I think it's a small town.
Like it's really tiny from what I remember.
You're not counting the people employed at the underground base.
Yeah, don't they like shuttle them in from like all over the world?
From our last deep underground military base story?
Isn't that how it works?
Not only around the world, but also like space and stuff.
Population of 2,743 as of the 2010s.
Wow, that is tiny.
Okay, so what really got the Dulce underground base into what we know it as today,
we've already kind of covered this in a previous episode.
It might be hidden in a previous episode, probably not, but at this point it is
because you'd have to go looking for it.
And I'm going to test you on this one.
Do you recall where we talked about it?
And I think I already told you about it.
So yeah, it was in the Montauk episode, I'm pretty sure.
No, we're listening when I gave you the answer.
No, I wasn't.
No, I was too busy trying to figure out stuff about Dulce.
You might be surprised that it showed up on the Richard Dodie episode.
Most honest and loving gentleman you would ever meet.
He has his fingers in a lot of things.
He does.
I'm going to go over it again.
Obviously, there's a lot of context to where this is coming from.
I highly recommend going back and listening to the Richard Dodie episode.
It's a good episode.
It's a couple part or at least and you get all the background information
because there's a lot going into this that you need to know.
And I'm only covering it briefly because I need to cover a couple more things on this episode.
This does seem to be where the infamous lore actually starts.
Less this buddy up top here, Valdez.
Obviously, this guy didn't explode Dulce into what we know it as today.
1979 is the year.
Albenowitz is the dude.
He's a businessman and UFO investigator.
I'm pretty sure he was an amateur, but he had high interest in the UFO.
It's really hard to be a pro UFO investigator.
It doesn't pay well.
No, I wouldn't assume so.
Well, we just talked about one who no, he doesn't investigate UFOs.
He's a pro.
This information guy.
Very answer. No.
Who did we just talk about?
Oh, Travis Walton.
Travis Walton.
Yeah.
He's a pro.
But having.
Oh, no, he doesn't even investigate UFOs.
No.
He just has this one story that he repeats.
Yeah.
So he had a high interest in UFOs and he's convinced he's intercepting
electronic communications from aliens outside of Albuquerque.
And everyone's friend, Richard Doty, who works for the government is basically playing into this guy's
story and feeding him lies.
Chelsea, do you remember where Albuquerque's come up in the past for us?
Richard Doty.
No.
What's his name?
The chrono knot.
That was where he time traveled to.
Remember when his dad took him to Albuquerque?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's weird.
It's a weird thing, but okay.
What was his name?
It's a hot spot for this kind of stuff.
New Mexico.
Yeah.
And I think part of it really is that New Mexico is like one of the least populated out of the states.
Like this is a tiny little town and there's still tons of military bases there.
Yeah.
I mean, that's where they're going to have it.
Yeah.
Be looking for his name.
Andrew Bozziago.
Yes.
Bozziago.
How could we forget?
That magnificent man in his unicorn.
He doesn't even need to unicorn.
He's just.
I've been keeping my eyes out for his 2024 campaign.
It's not up yet.
It's so sad.
I really hope he does something so we can.
We're going to get shirts if he does it for sure.
Oh, for sure.
I'm supporting that.
Long story short, Benowitz has a friend named Mirna Hansen received memories during a hypnotic
regression by Leo Sprinkle.
I had to throw his name in.
I cannot say Leo Sprinkle.
She recovers memories of being taken to an underground alien base where she saw human
body parts and bats where she was implanted with a device that would allow the aliens to
monitor her thoughts.
What were they doing with those body parts?
I'm assuming.
What would you do with bats of body parts?
Can't say I would have any use for that.
Yeah.
Otherwise, I would probably have it.
I'm just going on what I've talked about already in this episode.
They're just experimenting.
The only place I've ever come across like bats of body parts was the Penis Museum in
Iceland and there was very specific reasons that the bats had body parts in them.
If you're ever in Iceland, it's a good little tour.
You've never been to an underground base though.
Yeah, true.
I specifically can't pull from memory where I've seen bats of body parts.
I don't believe I've ever came across them.
So she's implanted with something to monitor her thoughts and Benowitz wanted to get to
the bottom of it because he thought it was related to the UFOs he's been witnessing for
himself and this is really parring it down the episode.
So go listen to it.
I'm not going to say it again.
I probably won't.
So Paul researched the shit out of this and he chose Dulce, New Mexico based on UFO sightings,
cattle mutilation and Native American lore and he comes up with Dulce and it's true.
Around this area, there are a lot of UFO sightings.
There's lots of cattle mutilation.
So it's not far-fetched and you're looking for an area like this that this is going to kind of
pinpoint you.
Dulce also makes an appearance in the Kinwalker Ranch by George Knapp.
Yeah, I'm sure it does.
Just some sightings that happen there.
It's really interesting.
Like super bizarre that happened there.
Oh yeah, I love the super bizarre.
So oh yeah, Paul was a pilot and narrowing down his search for the base, he would like
randomly fly around areas to see if he could figure out like where this base was and he
would take pictures of the areas.
If you're looking for a military base, I feel like trying to fly over it is a terrible plan.
Well, you have to remember Paul Benowitz lived across from a military base.
The name escapes me right now and he was literally videotaping UFOs flying around the
base.
What he thought were UFOs, whether they were or not, different story.
And he was videotaping these and Richard Doty was there being like, you really found something.
Yeah.
Thank you for videotaping this.
Let's look into it.
So with that logic, I don't think that would off put him to go take pictures of other military
bases.
He's probably like, I'm doing.
Yeah, but he was on the ground there as opposed to like flying overhead.
Like I just, I wouldn't want to fly near a military base personally.
That's true.
I feel like that's a really bad plan.
That's asking for it.
Like that guy that was on coast to coast day, I'm flying his aircraft to area 51.
Yeah.
Okay, what he was taking pictures of was apparently a secretive military installation,
training commandos.
Interstage, right?
Richard Doty, cue the booze.
He's like, yeah, Paul, you're probably right.
Let's go check it out in this helicopter here.
And after the Air Force has staged some old equipment for them to see, a stage structures,
even standing vents connected to nothing that made it appear as if some complex had been
built into the mountain.
They even had people stand around looking like they were guarding something.
This is Richard Doty doing this.
And it is exactly where the Dalcy, New Mexico alien based conspiracy theory comes from.
And might I add at this point that Richard Doty, while a disinformation agent for the government,
he has also said that they did sprinkle truth in with the lies.
Though take with that what you will.
Benowitz takes this information Doty gave him and he spread it everywhere in the UFO community.
Obviously, there's much, much more to the story.
And if you've never heard of the Paul Benowitz or Richard Doty story, then boy, are you in
for a horrible treat.
One more time, go listen to our episode.
Although if you're listening to this episode, odds are you have listened to that episode.
Just go listen again.
It's true.
It's true because it's one of our most popular episodes.
So let's move on.
Because I dislike Richard Doty.
That's right.
You may think it ends there, but it does not.
Interstage left, the lip-sneider with an odd twist, a former explosives expert employed
by the US government special services to build an underground military base in Dulce.
This is a different story contributing to the Dulce underground military base.
I don't know if it's military underground.
Yeah.
Well, it's usually called dumb, like deep underground military bases.
So, okay.
So probably military.
So Schneider, as with Doty, had a high level security clearance, which is weird that we
continue to get high level security clearance people for this.
And he claimed that he helped construct a secret underground military base in Dulce in 1979.
This is the same year Doty is fucking around with Benowitz concerning Dulce.
And I'm pretty sure Doty is still just generally fucking around to this day.
Yeah.
He's still in the UFO community.
It's weird.
It is so weird.
Anyhow, Schneider claims that he witnessed a battle with subterranean aliens that left
60 humans dead.
And he was one of three survivors.
And the war rages on to this day.
Intriguing, right?
So there's a 40-year war or so going on under Dulce, New Mexico.
Okay.
Yeah.
We can show you.
It's weird that it's just contained there if it's a true war, but...
And it's only like 60 people are so involved in it.
I hope they like at least swap the people out so they're not continuously fighting still.
Yeah, that would be nice.
Well, I found a really great article by the Epoch Times that kind of summarized everything
up so nicely.
Great source right there.
It's owned by a cult, eh?
Really?
Yeah.
I can't remember which, but it's actually might be owned by the Moonsies.
Honestly, it was put together so nicely and just summarized everything up.
Fantastically that I just took it right from here and I couldn't have said it better myself.
So cult or not, Epoch Times, you did a great job on this article and I'm going to quote right from you.
Sorry, it's not the Moonsies, but it is a cult.
It's the Falongong.
That just adds to the mysteriousness of it.
So he says that the work team drilled four large holes, the standard way to start construction,
but what emerged from the holes was not at all part of the standard procedure.
All the Black City air came up when he drilled the holes there,
Schneider said, in a lecture at the 1995 Paradness Expo.
I guess he's in the prepper community?
Because that's like a prepper.
Yes.
Unless he's just talking wherever people will have him.
Yeah, true.
He had gone underground to make an assessment when he found himself just feet away from a big gray,
seven foot tall alien, which is weird.
We haven't heard that they're that tall in previous calendars with them.
No.
And also it sounds like they were building a military base and these aliens were just already there.
Yes.
Okay.
It happened upon the base already there.
Yeah.
I just need to put this right in my mind.
So the military didn't know these guys were here and they did it or did they know this
and they're building it because they're there, but they didn't tell anybody.
Not sure on that part.
Let's see where the story takes us.
Okay.
Like I can tell you, let's just read the story.
The stench was worse than the worst garbage can.
The entity was absolutely horrible, he said.
Schneider fumbled for a pistol he was carrying.
He killed two of the beings, but not before one of them could emit a strange and harmful energy.
Alien made a sort of circular motion with his hand.
For those of you listening to the podcast, we are both attempting to figure out what this looks like.
We both went with different ways with it by the way.
Maybe he's windmilling his arms.
That's you could windmilling his arms.
Oh yeah, that would be circular motion.
Yeah.
For free windmill.
Waving it in front of his chest, Schneider imitated the action.
Oh, he imitated it as well.
You just have to.
He's windmilling too.
The next thing I know, this blue beam hit me and just literally opened me up like a fish.
He showed the audience his hand.
The beam burned off some of the fingers on his left hand and hit his chest.
It also burned his shoes off and even burned his toenails off.
A green beret saved Schneider's life and he lost his own in the process.
Got Schneider into a lift and pushed the button to raise him above the ground to safety.
Now, if this story isn't real, that really took some commitment on his part
because he's actually missing some of his hand.
Chelsea, he's an explosive expert.
Bring up a good point.
I have a feeling that missing fingers in the explosive community is pretty common.
But he's an expert.
Not now.
But how did he get to be an expert?
That's true.
By losing the fingers.
Of course.
More than 60 people lost their lives that day, said Schneider.
The other two survivors are living in nursing homes in Canada.
He said they are protected by the Canadian government and no American citizen,
Schneider included, is allowed access to them.
Schneider said this is because they were scared of being kidnapped.
Can we have access to them?
We're not American citizens.
We should look into that.
We should just go on a nursing home tour.
Yeah, there's lots in my neighborhood.
I can just go check.
It's true.
Go door knocking.
There's a war under there and has been going on since that time, he said.
He spoke of 1477 underground bases around the world, 129 of which were located in the United States.
Each cost 17 billion or more, he said, the black budget.
In and from other U.S. government agencies and from the public, Garner's 25% of the gross national
product.
Military forces from multiple countries have been engaged in such warfare with aliens, he said.
You know what I really like about his story and you can tell that he's telling the truth?
Very specific odd numbers.
It's always the odd number.
It's not 500 bases.
It's 129.
That's how you know it's believable.
It's true.
That's just in the handbook of being believable at the screen.
We must instill in our public officials.
They must tell the truth, he said.
If the truth cannot totally come out, what's the use in us having anything called freedom?
Yeah, if we can't use the deep underground military bases, why do we even have them?
That's not freedom.
We should all have.
We should all be able to go and fight with our arms circling.
Actually, no, don't circle your arms.
Apparently that gets you shot, but we can do what we want down there.
And the aliens will call your bluff if you're just circling your hands.
You don't know what that does.
They know because we're humans.
Schneider claimed there were multiple attempts on his life and he began being a whistleblower.
He did die in 1997, claimed to be a suicide.
However, that is met with suspicion because it happened after he started talking out about this.
So to some people that points to he's telling the truth.
Before I go on to the next guy, Taylor always brings up really good points.
We don't know what he was hired to do.
So essentially this underground military base in his story is already operating.
And what starts the war is when they happen upon it.
And it's still raging to this day.
So what they were hired to do exactly, either the government didn't know there was a military base down there,
or they just wanted to set this guy up for...
Yeah, they send this guy, like they hate this guy, clearly.
They're like, just go dig right there.
Don't worry about it.
Dig those holes.
Put those explosives in.
Don't circle your hands whenever you do.
Then there's Thomas Costello.
There's more.
He tells a similar story, but in more detail.
So maybe he has the answers, Costello.
I'm not Elvis, it's Thomas.
Costello claims to be a former security officer at Dulce Underground Base until the magic number 1979.
I find it weird that all of this happened around...
They all say the same year, yeah.
What he described was an underworld, highly secret base operated by humans,
reptilians, and their working class, the reptilians worker class, which might be grays.
I don't know how that hierarchy works.
Maybe it's something we can look into one day.
Yeah, I would be curious about their hierarchy, particularly if they all follow an ardent capitalist
structure like us and see...
I wouldn't doubt it, to be honest.
See if they have space communism.
Who does it love?
It's not me.
Yeah, who would love it?
So 1971, Thomas Costello claimed he started working for the Rand Corporation in Santa Monica, California.
In 1970...
Is that like Anne Rand?
That is who I think of as well.
I'm not quite sure who it is.
Let's take a break.
Yeah, because I'm pretty sure I've heard the Rand Corporation.
I'm pretty sure it's like Anne Rand's...
The Rand?
Who knows if this is the same Rand Corporation?
Is a nonpartisan American, non-profit global policy think tank and research institute?
Yeah, no.
That is exactly who it is.
It's named after Anne Rand and it's for basically people who want their own small government.
That's exactly what it is, located in Santa Monica, California.
Okay.
Okay, so that's an interesting pick for them.
To pick him up and work for them.
It is a little bit.
Yeah, they're hiring security detail for an underground military base.
In 1977, he was said to have been transferred from California to Dulce Base, New Mexico,
and starting living in Santa Fe where him and his family bought a home.
He commuted to work at the Dulce Base on an underground shuttle system similar to that of a tube train.
Thomas Casello made some unimaginable claims about the goings-ons at the Dulce Base.
He claimed that over 180,000 grays in brackets aliens were at the facility and several hundred
reptilian humanoids that are known as Draco.
Stello described the underground Dulce Base as quite specific details,
explaining that it has seven sub levels, explaining how most of the aliens worked on levels six and
seven.
Level five was mainly made up of the aliens living accommodation.
Thomas Casello's description of the activities being carried out at the Dulce Base included
experiments into telepathy, dreams and hypnosis, and research into human auras.
Why do they have to do that underground?
Like we've looked at actual like...
It's secret.
Secrets need to be...
Yeah, I guess we've seen cognitive research being done in some of our episodes and it's all done.
Above ground.
Yeah, this is much more secret than that.
Okay.
And secret needs to be buried underground.
Like the deepest secrets.
I mean it doesn't seem so bad at this point.
It would either have to be massive or these 180,000 grays don't need that much room to live.
Well it's seven stories.
I mean it could be small seven stories.
But even like the biggest cruise ships can only hold like 10,000 people.
Oh that's true.
It would have to be massive.
Yeah.
It would have to be.
So he said that the aliens have the capability to separate the bioplasmic body from the physical body
and replace an alien life force within a human body after removing the soul.
They're taking our plasma?
Taking our plasma and our souls.
This really reminds me of community and that cult that Pierce was involved in.
And when you die you get liquefied in your goo.
It turns out your soul's just plasma that can be sucked out.
You know what I don't know when he's making these claims.
I mean when you're could seek inspiration from.
But I'm gonna go with this is true.
Okay.
Until at least the end maybe I don't know.
Still those horrifying claims spoke about genetic experiments being carried out on a
variety of different life forms including fish, mice, birds, seals and even humans.
I mean with this statement I'm assuming all of these animals have souls.
They're being stolen as well.
And they're being replaced with whatever they said.
An alien life force.
Alien plasma.
Yeah.
I'm gonna be looking at animals differently you know.
Especially if they're acting weird.
So blah blah blah life forms including fish, mice, birds on level six of the facility.
Also known as Nightmare Hall.
Fake.
He described how the products.
Okay.
Do you have something to add about Nightmare Hall?
I'm just really curious why they went with that name.
Because I would say it's a play on work.
Uh what is yeah play on work.
Because I guess they're working on dreams.
Okay.
Exactly.
Yeah.
He described how the products of these experiments were stored in huge tanks that
contained multi-limbed humans and spoke of a room filled with cages holding tall humanoid
bat-like creatures.
They have mothmen.
They do.
But this is nowhere near the mothman sightings.
No it's not.
Not near the TNT plant.
Less is connected.
Does anyone ever think of that for our underground tunnels?
And the bat people are only allowed to go to one specific stop.
Yeah.
To stretch their legs.
Did we just break the mothman case wide open?
I think we saw fit.
Okay.
There we go.
That's where they're coming from.
Okay.
In all seriousness.
Castello spoke about the horrors that took place on level seven.
He said that this is what compelled him to flee the facility and made him feel as though he had to
disclose what he knew to the public.
Thomas Castello's own words quote level seven contained row upon row of thousands of humans.
Human mixture remains of embryos of humanoids.
Kept in cold storage.
I frequently encountered humans and cages.
Usually they were dazed and drugged but sometimes they cried and begged for help.
We were told they were hopelessly insane and involved in high-risk drug tests to cure insanity.
We were told never to speak to them at all.
End quote Castello also claimed that he had information describing similar bases throughout
the solar system.
Some located on several of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.
Castello's colleagues told him that the experiments were conducted on heavily sedated
abduction victims.
Eventually a conflict in opinion about the experimentation victims erupted into a war
between aliens and humans.
The fighting involved also a base security forces, U.S. military personnel and aliens.
Many people were killed in the conflict but in the end Dulce based resumed operating with
the same goals and methods as before.
Time for another twist.
Thomas Castello disappeared after telling his story.
At this point no one knows if he went into hiding or possibly was met with foul play.
According to Castello the aliens both gray and reptilians have been on earth for thousands of
years and they don't have hostile intentions towards humans.
I couldn't even get that out of my mouth.
Then it's the humans that are the hostile ones because someone's doing the
twist.
Yeah that that's a twist that that right there was the twist.
Apparently the aliens are primarily far more interested in the magnetic power of the earth
and energy they have the capabilities to harvest.
Castello also claimed to have gathered security video footage and various documents as evidence
of the underground facility. We made five copies of the evidence and distributed it
amongst the UFO community. These are known as adult state papers proving the base exists
and includes 30 monochrome photos of the base and let me see if I can send them to you.
I can.
So that one's supposed to be Thomas Castello on the left as soon as you open the link.
Okay.
And then on the right upper right that's one of the pictures that he supposedly took.
Okay.
And he was taken in 1979 right?
So yeah the quality is kind of just what we would expect.
Yeah.
I like the drawing down lower. They're in a water bottle.
Yeah he also he also has those drawings there that are included in the Dulce papers.
That's basically it for Dulce. Honestly I've heard more of the details from Castello regarding
the base when I hear about Dulce with the seven levels and stuff like that is what I'm more
familiar with with Dulce other than have done my own research with Benowitz and Richard
Buckbase. But yeah what do you think? Real?
Oh yeah for sure because it explains them off people.
Everything points towards real if I'm going to be honest with you even the contradictions
with Castello.
That even makes it better.
Saying that they have human's and cages and stuff like that.
It does make it more believable doesn't it?
But they come in peace.
And like all of our stories and it turns out we are the real monsters.
Yeah I just had to sit with that for a moment.
Yeah.
But in any event Chelsea thank you for this episode.
You're welcome.
Did any other like specifically named deep underground military bases come up when you're
researching this? Like is there any that are specifically connected to Dulce?
Because I know like Montauk it did come up I believe.
Not that specifically came up but at the same time I didn't go looking for it.
Though there was the mention of a tunnel that someone took to get there where that was
origination.
Yeah he didn't even say how long he was in the tunnel.
Like is it like a 20 minute ride? Is it like days?
No it's all very mysterious and un-mysterious at the same time.
And believable which is what I like about it.
Completely. It was the odd numbers and the contradictions.
Yes.
And Richard Doty.
And Richard Doty and with Richard Doty I have been Taylor here with Chelsea.
We are Journey to the Fringe.
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week.
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