1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 So I have a new format to openers. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,000 I'm going to let you choose, but I'm going to give you some topics to choose from. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:14,000 So I have feel good openers, which is feel good, including UFOs, because they make us feel good. 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,000 We have feel bad. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,000 We have can't choose between feeling good or bad. 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,000 We're feeling like science. 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,000 I like the idea of feeling science-y. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Okay, so feeling like science. 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Let me just open this. 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,000 You may regret this, but this is what my openers are for. 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:37,000 This one is titled, There's growing evidence that the universe is connected by giant structures. 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Scientists are finding that galaxies can move with- 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Back up, back up, back up. I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm getting excited. 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,000 I'm feeling so science-y. 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Oh, you were feeling science-y. 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,000 This is an article by Vice, our favorite. 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,000 This is by Becky Ferrera. 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Scientists are finding that galaxies can move with each other across huge distances and against the predictions of basic cosmological models. 19 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,000 The reason why could change everything we know about the universe. 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,000 The article does go on from there. 21 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,000 The Milky Way, which is the galaxy we live in. 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000 I hope that wasn't new news to you. 23 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Is one of hundreds of billions of galaxies strewn across the universe. 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:23,000 Their variety is stunning. Spirals ring galaxies shaped like star-studded loops. 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,000 And ancient galaxies that outshine virtually everything else in the universe. 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,000 But despite their differences and the mind-boggling distances between them, 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:37,000 scientists have noticed that some galaxies move together in odd and often unexplained patterns, 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,000 as if they are connected by a vast unseen force. 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:47,000 Galaxies within a few million light-years of each other can gravitationally affect each other in predictable ways, 30 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:53,000 but scientists have observed mysterious patterns between distant galaxies that transcend those local interactions. 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:59,000 These discoveries hint at the enigmatic influence of so-called large-scale structures, 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,000 which, as the name suggests, are the biggest known objects in the universe. 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:10,000 These dim structures are made of hydrogen, gas, and dark matter and take the form of filament sheets and knots 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,000 that link galaxies in a vast network called the cosmic web. 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,000 I know these structures have major implications for the evolution and movement of galaxies, 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,000 but we've barely scratched the surface of the root dynamics driving them. 37 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Scientists are eager to find out details about this, blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah, 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,000 moving in unison, blah blah blah, and that's the gist of the article. 39 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Want to know more? 40 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,000 No, that's probably good. 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,000 I personally always find it super interesting when they discover new structures of the universe, 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:47,000 particularly because we're too inside the universe and small within it to really be able to picture it. 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,000 So this is just the best model out there for now. 44 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,000 That doesn't mean that's what it's actually like, but I always like the what's so above, so below. 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:02,000 The micro seems to be almost identical to the macro when you look at it from those scales as well. 46 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,000 I'm not sure what that means, but yes. 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,000 Both the really small and the really big seem to be the same in their structures. 48 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,000 Yeah, I mean, there's so little that we know about the universe, right? 49 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:18,000 So we're always finding, not me personally, they're always finding out new things about the universe 50 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,000 and it's so small in comparison to what the universe actually is probably. 51 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,000 I thought that was interesting and I hope that quenched your feeling science-y first. 52 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,000 A little bit. I think it was feeling more spacey than science-y, but yes, that does quench it 53 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,000 and it makes me happy in a science-y way. 54 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,000 It's a large umbrella. 55 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Yes. 56 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Okay, good. 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,000 With that, let's get on with this episode. 58 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,000 From the unexplained to the mundane, come join us on a journey to the fringe. 59 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Hello and welcome to Journey to the Fringe. 60 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:00,000 Now, just as award-winning is ever, we are your possibly award-winning hosts, 61 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,000 but the same status of award-winning as we have ever been, Taylor and Chelsea. 62 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,000 And today we talk about Chelsea. 63 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:15,000 I want to explain my thought process going into this because we do profiles basically on people within the UFO community quite a bit. 64 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 We generally call that assholes of the UFO community. 65 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,000 However, I don't know if I would call this particular character an asshole of the UFO community. 66 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,000 I'll get into kind of why as we're going through this, 67 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,000 but today we're going to go over a profile of a man by the name of Travis Walton. 68 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,000 I see why you would say that. 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Yes. 70 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,000 He is most famously known for an abduction case known as Fire in the Sky that we're going to go over. 71 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,000 We're going to talk about what happens during this abduction 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,000 and then kind of what has happened in his life from that abduction to today. 73 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,000 So I'm excited. 74 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,000 It's an interesting story. 75 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:57,000 I'm going to borrow a lot from a website known as UFOresearch.com because they did a great profile on this. 76 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 And the Wikipedia page is actually very lacking when it comes to this case. 77 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000 Really? 78 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,000 It mostly is just telling you why it didn't happen. 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000 I find that's what Wikipedia does. 80 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,000 For very particular topics. 81 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,000 There's a lot where it's fantastic, but there's some where you just know they're just looking at it from one side 82 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,000 and you're like, you know what? 83 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,000 There's more to this story than what you're putting in here. 84 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Oh yeah. 85 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:23,000 And my knowledge of Travis Walton, I've seen Fire in the Sky and I've seen a few UFO shows that do it. 86 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,000 So I'm excited to see what we've got. 87 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,000 But without further ado, let's go through this. 88 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,000 This is always brought up as one of the most credible UFO abduction and sighting cases out there. 89 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,000 And it happened in 1975. 90 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,000 So we've had a long time to kind of look at it and see here these guys talk. 91 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,000 This involves six individuals. 92 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:49,000 It is Travis Walton, Michael Rogers, John Goulet, Alan Dallas, Steve Pierce, Kenneth Peterson, and Dwayne Smith. 93 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,000 I've only heard of one. 94 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Most of them are dead at this point. 95 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,000 There's a couple still alive. 96 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Really? 97 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Most people have only heard of Travis Walton because he's the one that this actually happens to. 98 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,000 And I said there's six. 99 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,000 There's actually six plus Travis, so seven. 100 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000 And they're a logging crew in Snowflake, Arizona. 101 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:09,000 They were working one day on November 5th, 1975, put in a full day of work. 102 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:14,000 They're heading back down the logging roads and they witness a bright light in the woods while driving home. 103 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Mike Rogers is driving the truck and he decides to drive towards it to see what's going on. 104 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,000 When they get to the light, it's dark. 105 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 They're about 30 yards away and they stop the truck because they realize that what they're seeing in this light is a UFO. 106 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,000 They all describe the UFO as about 20 feet in diameter and eight feet high. 107 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:37,000 At the time, Travis decides when they see it to jump out of the truck and just walks towards it. 108 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:44,000 Not exactly the smartest plan, particularly when you don't have a plan or know what you would do in this scenario. 109 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Okay, is that should we be following that if we ever see UFO? 110 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 Stay in the car unless you have a plan. 111 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Like come up with a plan. 112 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 I should have a plan. 113 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Okay. 114 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,000 With the windows up at that point. 115 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Once you have that plan, you can leave the vehicle. 116 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,000 But until you have that plan, I would highly recommend staying in that vehicle with the windows up. 117 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000 I'm going to be prepared. 118 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,000 I should start working on my plan now. 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:11,000 I don't know if you can do the plan ahead of time just because UFO scenarios can happen in so many different ways. 120 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,000 That I don't know if you want to come up with just one plan that you're going to use no matter what. 121 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,000 I mean, you could come up with the universal and then kind of tweak it from there, I guess. 122 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Okay, but like what if you're no good under pressure like me? 123 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,000 That's fair. 124 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,000 That's a really good point. 125 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,000 You should have to drive. 126 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,000 You should have to drive. 127 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,000 And this is also, this isn't great blanket information because like what if you accidentally drove your vehicle into a lake? 128 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Then you see the UFO. 129 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000 Don't stay in the car. 130 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,000 Okay. 131 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,000 It has to be flexible. 132 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,000 It's what you're saying. 133 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Okay. 134 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Got it. 135 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Got it. 136 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,000 I just feel like we need that caveat as well because people listen to us for our UFO know-how. 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,000 Yeah. 138 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,000 This is sound advice. 139 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,000 It's all good advice. 140 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:57,000 So anyhow, Travis takes the stupid plan of not having a plan and jumping out of the car just walking towards this thing. 141 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,000 I can try. 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:05,000 Everybody in the truck, all six of them, start yelling at him to get back and then they see this bluish light. 143 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,000 It comes out of the UFO and it hits Travis like right in the chest. 144 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,000 That's not good. 145 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,000 Yeah. 146 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,000 They all kind of describe this slightly differently, but more or less they all say that he gets hit. 147 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,000 He gets lifted up a little bit off the ground and thrown back several feet. 148 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 He's down on the ground, passed out, not near the truck. 149 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:29,000 At this point, everybody in the truck is so scared that they just drive away and they leave their friend on the ground. 150 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,000 Okay, that's what you get for not having a plan. 151 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,000 He came up with the plan. 152 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,000 This plan did not involve getting out of the car. 153 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,000 It's getting the fuck out of there. 154 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,000 I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. 155 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,000 I'd be scared. 156 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,000 What do you do? 157 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,000 So these six guys in the truck, they drive off, they start driving away and then about 15 minutes later, 158 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,000 they kind of get their composure, they come up with a real plan and they say, 159 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,000 okay, let's go check what's up with Travis. 160 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,000 So they drive back the way they left him. 161 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000 I would think it would be longer, like days later. 162 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,000 Can you imagine brushing your teeth one night? 163 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000 Oh shit, Travis. 164 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,000 That was so scary that I just kind of blocked it out. 165 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,000 We should go check on him. 166 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,000 That's good. 167 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,000 15 minutes isn't bad. 168 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 15 minutes is not bad. 169 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000 They drive back. 170 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000 The plan is let's at least see what happened to Travis and if the UFO is still there. 171 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,000 And guess what? 172 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,000 The answer kind of comes vaguely in that neither of them are there. 173 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,000 So they make sure they're in the right spot. 174 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,000 They send an hour and a half looking for him in the middle of the night. 175 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Oh man. 176 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,000 But they couldn't find anything. 177 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000 That would suck. 178 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,000 Yeah. 179 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,000 And I was saying middle of the night, I apologize. 180 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,000 It's not the middle of the night because they get back into town at 7.30pm. 181 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,000 First thing they do is they call the sheriff. 182 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,000 His name's Chuck Ellison and they report what happened to Travis and they like, 183 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,000 but basically what are you going to do? 184 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Because it looks really bad if you're returning to town without somebody. 185 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,000 So they tell the sheriff that Travis is missing and they convey the story. 186 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,000 They basically say like, look, there was this UFO. 187 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,000 We got hit by a beam. 188 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,000 We drove away. 189 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,000 We came back and he was gone. 190 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,000 I can't imagine uttering those words out. 191 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,000 No. 192 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:01,000 And I at least imagine these guys are in the exact same boat in that they don't know 193 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 how to say this because they know it sounds crazy too. 194 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,000 One person said that they were very skeptical of flying saucers, but not so much anymore. 195 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,000 And another said that he doesn't believe in them, but he saw one. 196 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000 And that's the group of that group on November night. 197 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,000 That's what they said he was told. 198 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000 That's the large variety of leaving in UFOs. 199 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 Yeah. 200 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 On November night, the police had gone up there. 201 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,000 They did an investigation of the area where he's abducted. 202 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,000 They said there was a slightly higher radiation reading on the Geiger counter, 203 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,000 but nobody took any soil samples of the area. 204 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,000 And the sheriff's department has found nobody in their search as of November night. 205 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Okay. 206 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,000 According to their research. 207 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 It checks out. 208 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,000 Deputy Ellison, super skeptical about this account and what happened. 209 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,000 Even though these guys are all super like stressed out and distraught. 210 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,000 And Ellison is even quoted as saying if they were acting, they were awfully good at it 211 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,000 because they are so distraught about what happened up there. 212 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,000 These are loggers. 213 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,000 I think Travis was around the middle age for these people. 214 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,000 And he's 22 years old in 1975. 215 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,000 So they're all super young. 216 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,000 They're loggers. 217 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,000 They don't exactly have acting credentials behind them. 218 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,000 I was just going to say, I don't think loggers are particularly good actors, but. 219 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,000 Yeah. 220 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,000 But Ellison really wants to know what actually happened. 221 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,000 He believes that something outside of a UFO happened to make this guy go missing. 222 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:22,000 So he brings in Sheriff Marlene Gillespie who came down to interview the men with Officer Ken Copeland. 223 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,000 They decided to get a search team together to look for Walton back at the scene, 224 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,000 but there was absolutely no trace of him or the UFO that the men said had struck Travis. 225 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,000 And the police were beginning to suspect these guys had gotten rid of Travis. 226 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,000 What would you do if you were the sheriff and you're fairly certain that these guys, 227 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,000 these six loggers had just offed or gotten rid of their logger friend? 228 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000 They bring in the polygraph team. 229 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,000 I was just going to say lie detector test. 230 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 The police decide to administer this polygraph test to the six guys. 231 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 And the test is taken on November 10th. 232 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:57,000 This is five days after the incident happened and there's been no sight or scene of Travis in those days. 233 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000 So they bring in a guy by the name of Sy Gilson. 234 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,000 During the polygraph test, the men were asked these questions. 235 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,000 If they had caused harm to Walton, if they were telling the truth about the UFO, 236 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,000 if they knew where his body was buried and all of the men answered to the best of their ability, 237 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,000 basically they all say the same thing. 238 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000 He was abducted, they did not cause harm to Travis, and they did not know where his body was, 239 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000 or if it was buried somewhere. 240 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Five out of the six, the results come back as they're telling the truth. 241 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,000 The sixth one comes back inconclusive. 242 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,000 And then later on, like as there's been 40, 50 years since this has happened, 243 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 he's done multiple polygraph tests since then and they've all come back truthful. 244 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:38,000 In Gilson's official report, he stated these polygraph examinations prove that these five men did see some object they believed to be a UFO, 245 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,000 and that Travis Walton was not injured or murdered by any of these men on that Wednesday. 246 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 So Travis has gone five days at this point? 247 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Yeah, November 5th, abducted. 248 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,000 November 10th, the lie detector tests to see if they murdered him. 249 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,000 That's crazy. 250 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Most of the questions are like overnight for a few hours is what they... 251 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000 Yeah, exactly. 252 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,000 And it's just missing time. 253 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Yeah. 254 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000 This is crazy. 255 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:06,000 And then late in the evening, November 10th, the man by the name of Grant Neff gets a phone call from someone claiming to be Travis Walton. 256 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,000 He has a low raspy voice and basically says, this is Travis. 257 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,000 I'm at a phone booth at the Heber gas station and I need help. 258 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Come and get me. 259 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,000 Like, that's it. 260 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Because of the attention the story got in the last five days, he thought it was a prank phone call and almost hung up. 261 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,000 But the man on the phone expressed again that it was Travis and he needed help. 262 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:28,000 Grant and Dwayne drove out to the gas station and they find Travis on the floor of the phone booth that he made the call from. 263 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,000 He was in the same clothes as he was when he went missing. 264 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,000 He was unshaven and visibly thinner than before. 265 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,000 He was dismayed, talking gibberish, like just completely distraught. 266 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000 Again, a great word for this. 267 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000 And they took him to his mother's house and tried to feed him and wash him up. 268 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,000 But he was in pretty bad condition and had a hard time doing anything. 269 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,000 So like they had to take care of him for a while there. 270 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:54,000 It takes Travis a while to tell his story as to what happened because he's out of it. 271 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Probably processing what happened to him as well. 272 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,000 It's fairly embarrassing because everybody's going to ridicule you for this story that you're going to tell. 273 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,000 And how do you go about, I can just imagine being in that situation being like, 274 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:11,000 how do I even process what happened and how do I say that I was just abducted by aliens? 275 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Yeah, and he has talked about this in the time since. 276 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Like he was on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast in 2021 and Joe asked him, 277 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,000 why didn't they just take you to the sheriff's department? 278 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,000 Because they were looking for you and they have questions about like what happened. 279 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,000 And he's like, I was in no shape to answer police questions at that time. 280 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,000 I can't imagine. I can only imagine. I mean, I can't. 281 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,000 It takes him a while, but he finally kind of starts telling his story. 282 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,000 I believe it was probably the next day or the day after. 283 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,000 So that'd be November 11th or November 12th. 284 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000 Oh, that quickly. Okay. 285 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Yeah. By a while, I mean, like he got cleaned up. 286 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,000 He just slept, but he clearly remembers it. 287 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,000 The first thing he remembers after being struck by the blueish light in the woods was waking up, 288 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:58,000 thinking he may be in a hospital as he was laid out on a table with a bright light above him. 289 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,000 He said that it was a muggy and warm as he first opened his eyes and looked around in pain. 290 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,000 He saw three figures standing around him, which he at first thought were doctors, 291 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000 but were wearing orange garments. 292 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,000 It was then when his vision cleared that he realized they were not human. 293 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,000 He described the beings as being less than five feet tall, having large dark eyes, 294 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,000 large heads, small facial features such as nostrils and ears. 295 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,000 And this account is comparable to other alien abductions similar to what people sometimes call the grays, 296 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,000 but he doesn't quite say they're gray either. 297 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Frightened, he jumps off the table and attacks one of the creatures by striking it in the back with his fist. 298 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:38,000 He mentioned that it wasn't as solid as a human would be and was lighter and was thrown back way more easily than if it was a human. 299 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,000 So like this might be him trying to say he's a badass and just like punch this guy right across the room. 300 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:50,000 At this time, three aliens tried to subdue him, so he grabbed the nearest object to him and tries to fend them off. 301 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,000 He managed to find a thin foot and a half long glass-like cylinder on the table next to where he woke up, 302 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,000 and he tried to break off the top and use it as a sharp weapon. 303 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000 He couldn't manage to break it though. 304 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000 He started to yell, keep back, the whole time they never tried to communicate with him or from what he could tell each other. 305 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 He was ready to fight them off at this point, so the three aliens fled the room. 306 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 After they left, he decided this was a good time to try to find a way to escape, 307 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:16,000 and he left the first room and headed down a hallway which led to a large spherical room with a chair in the center. 308 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000 Thinking there may be one of the creatures in the chair, he approached it carefully, 309 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000 while noticing lights appearing all around him as he did so. 310 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,000 These lights seemed to be stars from the walls around him becoming transparent. 311 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,000 After he realized the coast was clear, he sat in the chair and pushed a small lever next to the chair, 312 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000 hoping desperately it might open a door for him to escape. 313 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:41,000 This time, the stars around him started to shift and rotate slowly as if he may be controlling the ship. 314 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,000 He then gets out of the chair, walks towards an entrance to look for another possible way out, 315 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,000 when he heard a noise and turned around. 316 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000 To his surprise, it was not one of the aliens but a tall human wearing a blue suit, 317 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000 a thick belt, and some kind of helmet with a glass face. 318 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,000 He frantically asked him hundreds of questions all at once, but the man simply grabbed his arm 319 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,000 and motioned for him to follow him, and he did. 320 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:08,000 They traveled down a corridor and the man led him into a large room that was shaped like a quarter of a sideways cylinder, 321 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:14,000 and in the room, which he describes as like a hanger, was about three shiny 40-foot saucer-shaped ships. 322 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:21,000 From there, the man continued to lead him down to other hallways and into a room that contained three other humans wearing the same blue suits. 323 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,000 He proceeded to ask these humans what was going on and if they could help him, but they did not respond. 324 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Instead, they led him to a table and covered his face with something that looked similar to an oxygen mask, 325 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,000 and after that, he awoke by the gas station in Hebrew, Arizona and saw the distant object fly away. 326 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,000 Okay, that's crazy. 327 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,000 Yeah, that's somewhat the same as like a lot of the abduction cases that you hear, 328 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000 but then there's that second half that is just... 329 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,000 Yeah, with the humans, right? 330 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,000 Human-like, I should say. 331 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Human-like, yeah. 332 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,000 He doesn't give too much detail about what they look like. 333 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000 He does remember quite a bit of it. 334 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000 Personally, he just does. 335 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000 He did go through hypnotic regression. 336 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:04,000 He says that was just to make him better able to remember because he had so much PTSD with regards to his memory. 337 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,000 So he just needed the calming factors to help him through that. 338 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,000 Yeah. 339 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000 It in my mind makes a lot of sense too. 340 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,000 Yeah. 341 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:16,000 He gives his first interview on November 11th of 1975, like the next day. 342 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,000 Okay. 343 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:23,000 It was on a show called Face of the State, and the interview, Travis describes the aliens as being like men, but not quite human. 344 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,000 He said they had underdeveloped features, were hairless, were slightly shorter than himself, 345 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,000 and were dressed in a kind of brownish-orange one-piece garment. 346 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,000 Well, this is the human guys. 347 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,000 I think he's talking about the other guys there. 348 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000 I'm not quite sure. 349 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000 Grace? 350 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Yeah. 351 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:43,000 He said that after packing up from work and heading home, he saw what he thought was a sunset and was going to comment on it, 352 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,000 and that's when they all saw UFO hovering over the side of the road about 30 yards away and stopped the truck. 353 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000 He got out of the truck and started walking towards the object. 354 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,000 This is when, as he says, he got struck and was knocked back. 355 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,000 And when he regained consciousness, he was looking up at a light from a ceiling while lying on a table. 356 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:05,000 He filed a new fork report, which is a UFO reporting network like MUFON, but it was bigger at the time than MUFON. 357 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:11,000 His brother-in-law reported Travis to this group while he was still missing on November 8th. 358 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,000 I love that. 359 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000 I mean, you're going to go to all avenues, I guess. 360 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Yeah, exactly. 361 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:22,000 He had talked about UFOs in the past, his brother said that Travis had mentioned before that if he ever saw flying saucer, 362 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,000 he would try and communicate with it. 363 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,000 So I guess he actually did have a plan, and that is why he got out of the car. 364 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,000 Fair enough. 365 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000 I was just going to say, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say, 366 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,000 pardon my plan should be not getting out of the car. 367 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:40,000 I feel like if they're going to abduct you, they're going to abduct you because Benny and Barty Hale were just taken right from their car. 368 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,000 Yeah. 369 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000 It's hard to narrow down a plan. 370 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000 That's basically the entire incident. 371 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:49,000 If you want to read more about it, like more in detail, Travis did come out with a book. 372 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:55,000 I believe it's called The Travis Walton Experience in 1978 just to kind of get the record down on what happened. 373 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:02,000 That is later made into a fairly famous movie called Fire in the Sky, which came out in 1993. 374 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 It's a pretty good movie. 375 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Yeah, it is. 376 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000 And there's a lot of creative liberties taken, though. 377 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:14,000 He also has appeared since this time in several UFO documentaries and attends UFO conferences, basically as an alien abductee. 378 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,000 He also says that he now believes since this has happened, he has kind of changed his mind as to what happened. 379 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000 He believes that they were experimenting on him at first, but since that time he's had life experiences take place. 380 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:34,000 And he says that he now believes that the aliens were not being hostile, but rather they're trying to help him because they hit him with an errant beam of whatever that was. 381 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000 He thinks that they were actually just trying to treat his wounds from it. 382 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,000 Oh, interesting. 383 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:45,000 And he believes that basically what happened was that thing was going to give him cancer like it was severe radiation and they were treating his radiation. 384 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Oh, and has he had any health issues or anything as a result? 385 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,000 He has not, no. 386 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:58,000 He said one of the witnesses, I forget which of the six in the car, but one had their arm out the window and he developed skin cancer on that arm. 387 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Really? 388 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000 And about changing the story, I think that's more... 389 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000 I wouldn't say changing the story. 390 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:11,000 Greetings to what happened because like updating it as you have time to sit with it and realize kind of what's happened. 391 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,000 I mean, if you're giving your first account the day after it happens, I mean, that's still fresh in your mind. 392 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,000 You're still processing it. 393 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:27,000 And I would assume after you are sitting with it and accepted that you got objected by aliens, you're going to think more about what happened and kind of update it. 394 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,000 Yeah, of course. 395 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000 But the overall story has stayed consistent. 396 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,000 It's his view of what the aliens were doing that has changed, not the story itself. 397 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Yeah, okay. 398 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,000 Obviously, this event that happened, whether or not he was abducted, it has greatly impacted his life. 399 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,000 He's had a ton of media attention and public scrutiny as well as skeptics look at this story. 400 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000 He's also had to deal with the log of the psychological trauma, at least as he says from this experience. 401 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:59,000 He described it at the time as terrifying and confusing and it has changed since then, probably because of the therapy as well. 402 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,000 Yeah, how do you reconcile that within yourself that I got abducted by aliens? 403 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:14,000 Well, yeah, there are actually trauma groups for this, but it's really hard to actually make sure that it has just people who actually say they've had this experience. 404 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Yeah. 405 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Just because there's so many people who are either a crazy, mentally ill, or B, just straight up narcissists or liars that want the clout. 406 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000 Yeah, that's true. 407 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000 And if it really did happen to you, I'd imagine that it would be, depending on your view of it, whether or not you believe in it, it would still be really hard to accept that. 408 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,000 Exactly. 409 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:39,000 And even like within his own family, like some of them just straight up believe the story and what happened. 410 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,000 Some are skeptical though and accuse him of lying and hoaxing this entire thing. 411 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Some people say that Mike Rogers, the crew leader, has come out since this in the early 2000s and said that this entire thing was a hoax. 412 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000 I think I remember that. 413 00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Yeah, but I just listened to a podcast that he was on recently, like either last year or the year before, where he's talking about the experience and he's like, this was not hoaxed. 414 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,000 If people bring this up as Mike Rogers said that it was a hoax, that is not true. 415 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:13,000 At this point, he may have said something with regards to a hoax, but he does not believe this incident was fake. 416 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,000 He does believe that Travis Walton was abducted. 417 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:22,000 And all these guys that were part of the crew when they got back, they were also like being investigated for murder. 418 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,000 So this is like such a profound case. 419 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000 It's super interesting. 420 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:36,000 And just for everybody who has started using GPT or AIs to do research, always keep a lookout for it because it'll straight up lie sometimes. 421 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,000 I was trying to find the quote where Mike Rogers is saying this hoax thing. 422 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000 I have to read this to you one second. 423 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,000 I said, can you tell me the story of the guy who attracted his Travis Walton story? 424 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:56,000 I'm not sure which guy you're referring to, but it's possible that you're referring to Travis Walton, who in 2018 retracted his story about alien abduction experiences. 425 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000 What? 426 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,000 He said he lied about the incident and it was a hoax. 427 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000 That did not happen. 428 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,000 Okay AI, so you just straight up lied to us. 429 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,000 Yeah. 430 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Oh my god. 431 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,000 It did put a source for it. The source did not say that at all either. 432 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000 So should stay careful when you're doing, you're asking AI to do research for you. 433 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,000 That's hilarious. 434 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000 Thanks for nothing. 435 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000 And I find this interesting. 436 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000 I don't consider him an asshole if you have a community. 437 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000 He has not gotten into like UFO research or alternate sciences. 438 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000 He does attend conferences. 439 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000 He does speaking engagements. 440 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,000 He's been on documentaries. 441 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,000 The only thing he will talk about though is his story. 442 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000 Yeah. 443 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,000 I could see why. 444 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,000 He's only an expert on his story. 445 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,000 Exactly. 446 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,000 Yeah. 447 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000 And he's maintained it. 448 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000 He hasn't held himself out to be a physicist. 449 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,000 He does not partake in the sciences out there for this. 450 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:55,000 And he's kind of been forced into this just because he couldn't get a normal job after this happened. 451 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:01,000 He tried to work as a logger, but really couldn't get any work doing it because the story was attached to him. 452 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,000 He's had a bunch of different jobs, but he's never been able to like do anything that was a consistent career 453 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,000 because this followed him around everywhere. 454 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,000 So I think he was a bit forced into being part of the UFO community because of this. 455 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,000 Well, I hope he was able to support himself with that at the very least. 456 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,000 Yeah. 457 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000 I think with the book and the movie deal, it worked out okay for him. 458 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Good. 459 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000 He still lives in the same area. 460 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,000 He's in Arizona. 461 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,000 I don't know. 462 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Would you stay in the same area? 463 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,000 You got abducted? 464 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000 I don't know. 465 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000 It's like a small town. 466 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000 It's hard to leave a small town. 467 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Particularly if you know everybody, but that also means that everybody knows you too and what happened. 468 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Yeah, but then again, it's a pretty big story. 469 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,000 Wherever you go, people would probably know. 470 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:51,000 And with this story too, all the crew members have consistently told the same story, although one of them apparently got offered $10,000 to lie and say the whole story was a hoax. 471 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Both Travis and Mike Rogers have spoken about this. 472 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000 Travis talks about it on the Joe Rogan experience. 473 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:04,000 Specifically, he said he thinks it was the CIA that offered him $10,000 because he's like, who would offer this guy $10,000 to fake a story? 474 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Like it seems weird. 475 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,000 Yeah. 476 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000 His theory was the CIA. 477 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,000 Has he mentioned any other abduction experiences after the major one? 478 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000 No. 479 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:23,000 He said he has seen a UFO since then and that it was reported to MUFON with like 16,000 witnesses because it was a flying triangle over California. 480 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Yeah, but outside of that, he says he'll only talk about those two. 481 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,000 He has had another experience, but nobody else saw it, so he doesn't talk about it. 482 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,000 I mean, I don't blame him for that. 483 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Yeah. 484 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:42,000 And basically, he really wants the subduction story to be believed, so he only talks about the parts that can be substantiated, like the fact that six other people saw this. 485 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,000 And yeah, he's just trying to get this experience known for what he believes is the truth. 486 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000 I'm also curious. 487 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000 I don't mean to interrupt the story of what you're telling. 488 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,000 What do the skeptics say about this? 489 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,000 Do you know? 490 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000 I do. 491 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,000 And that comes up at the end. 492 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,000 Okay. 493 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,000 They eagerly await this. 494 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:06,000 At the 40th anniversary of this event, he hosted something called the Fire Sky Summit, which was basically he brought as many of the people together that he could. 495 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,000 And they filmed the documentary about the events. 496 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000 He got three of the members. 497 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Is that the people that were with him? 498 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,000 Yes. 499 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Vloggers? 500 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,000 Okay. 501 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,000 And it was the first time actually since the event, these three guys have been together. 502 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,000 They all answer questions. 503 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,000 They remain consistent about what happened. 504 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:27,000 One guy has gotten pissed at Tramon since then because apparently for some of the book that he wrote, Travis asked him to draw some sketches. 505 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000 And Travis never paid him for them. 506 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,000 So he's pissed off about that, but he maintains that the story is still the same. 507 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,000 Okay. 508 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000 He didn't piss him off that much that he retracted it. 509 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,000 And yeah, some of them are upset that like Travis doesn't give them any money for like the movie or the book. 510 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Or enough. 511 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 But yeah. 512 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,000 And yeah, that Sky Fire Summit, I was trying to find anything about it. 513 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,000 I really couldn't. 514 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,000 There appears to be a show made about it, but it was on Discovery Plus and I'm not going to pay for Discovery Plus. 515 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,000 I think I have it. 516 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,000 What's it called? 517 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000 Sky Fire Summit. 518 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000 Sky Fire Summit. 519 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000 I'm going to write it down. 520 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:07,000 And basically what he's up to right now, he in 2021, he was on the Joe Rogan experience. 521 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,000 He does still attend conferences. 522 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:18,000 His website actually has and much like everybody in UFO community, his website definitely does not look like it's been updated in years. 523 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,000 If you're into UFOs and you have a website, you cannot have a modernized website. 524 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,000 No, it has to have been built in the 90s, Chelsea. 525 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000 You can look at it. 526 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Travis-Walton.com. 527 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Pull that out. 528 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,000 Yep. 529 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000 This checks out. 530 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000 Selling the truth. 531 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Yeah. 532 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,000 And it hasn't been updated since I believe 2019 or he just stops doing events since COVID. 533 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,000 He like just in 2019, he was at AlienCon. 534 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000 He was on UFO cruise seminar at sea. 535 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,000 He went to portal to Ascension Conference. 536 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:55,000 ParanormaCon at the Mabel Alien Cosmic Expo International UFO Congress. 537 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,000 Alien Expo 2019, 2019 Roswell UFO Festival. 538 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Like that's this is how he makes money now. 539 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,000 Yeah. 540 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,000 Contact at the desert. 541 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Pine Busch UFO Fair. 542 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,000 Phoenix Lights Anniversary Celebration. 543 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,000 Ivy Congresso Internacionale de Ovnilova. 544 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,000 I have no idea how to say that. 545 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,000 Yeah. 546 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,000 I mean, he's a pretty major guy in the community now because he has one of the best. 547 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,000 Stories. 548 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,000 What would you call it? 549 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,000 Stories. 550 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,000 Experience. 551 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,000 Adduction experience. 552 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,000 And one of the most evident based. 553 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,000 Yes. 554 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,000 One of the most reputable ones out there. 555 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000 And I just have to add it this time before I forget. 556 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,000 Coming up with your plan for when you see a UFO, like a general catch all of a plan. 557 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,000 You can kind of tweak it as you go. 558 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,000 But I just want to read this quote from Travis Walton's website that might help you in making 559 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000 that plan. 560 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000 This quote, if I had to ever do it again, I wouldn't get out of the truck and quote. 561 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,000 So probably keep that in mind. 562 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,000 You know what? 563 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000 Yeah. 564 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,000 Take your advice from him, not from us. 565 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,000 Yeah. 566 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000 Because he's somebody who's done that attempt and not a good one. 567 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000 Take it from us telling you what Travis Walton would do. 568 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,000 Yeah. 569 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,000 And most recently what I found is that apparently they're in the works to remake Fire in the 570 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,000 Sky. 571 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000 He doesn't like the creative licensing that the first movie took. 572 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,000 Like specifically they tried to make the aliens as scary as possible and spice the story up. 573 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,000 I mean, why does that need spicing? 574 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000 I know. 575 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,000 Okay. 576 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000 So I would be curious to see how like a remake would go. 577 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,000 Actually, if they're like his viewpoint of it now is that they were trying to help him 578 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000 so they probably wouldn't make it a horror movie that's time around. 579 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000 That would be really cool to see. 580 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,000 And I would say the odds are probably in favor of this is how he's making his money now. 581 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000 He's probably pushing for them to remake it. 582 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:42,000 For that 2015 40 year anniversary thing, Travis participated in a documentary that took him 583 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,000 back to the forest with some crew members and a UFO expert. 584 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000 And he says that he was surprised by some of the findings that they made there such as the growth 585 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,000 patterns of the trees near the abduction site that were way bigger than they should have been. 586 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,000 They found that the trees near the abduction site had some unusual growth patterns and they said that 587 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,000 the trees directly surrounding the area where Travis was struck by the beam of light had grown 588 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,000 faster than the other trees nearby. 589 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,000 They say that this could be due to radiation exposure from the UFO, which stimulated the growth of the 590 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,000 tree rings, and they said that this was a possible evidence of the presence of the UFO and its effect 591 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,000 on the environment. 592 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,000 But yeah, I don't have anything like he isn't an asshole. 593 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,000 He sticks to his one particular area. 594 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000 That's all he talks about. 595 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,000 And that's what he does. 596 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,000 So that's why I can't call this guy an asshole of the UFO community. 597 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:33,000 I would rule that he's not an asshole either, but he's a lovable person of the UFO community. 598 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,000 But here are some of the things that the detractors say. 599 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000 Okay. 600 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:44,000 On October 20th, 1975, roughly two weeks before this incident occurred, a made-for-TV movie inspired 601 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000 by the Barney and Betty Hill incident airs starring James Earl Jones. 602 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,000 And the film aired two weeks before Travis Walton's UFO incident, which led cognitive psychologist 603 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,000 Susan Clancy to argue that this film influenced Travis and his abduction story. 604 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,000 Walton's account shares commonality with other alien abduction claims that are made after such stories 605 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000 appear in films and on TV. 606 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:11,000 I did not know there's an uptick of abduction claims or UFO sightings after UFO movies are coming out. 607 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,000 And they didn't cite anything for this either, so I'm not sure where that comes from. 608 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000 It might just be them making it up. 609 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,000 Yeah, it does make sense if you think about it that way. 610 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,000 Because it's kind of like how suicide rates go up if they start reporting on suicides. 611 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,000 Okay, that makes sense. 612 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,000 That's all they got on that, is just that he saw this movie. 613 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,000 And Clancy noted the general rise mainly of abduction claims following the showing of the UFO incident, 614 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:41,000 which is this movie that he apparently saw, and cites class's conclusion that after viewing this movie 615 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000 any person with a little imagination could now become an instant celebrity, 616 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,000 concluding that one of these instant celebrities was Travis Walton. 617 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Skeptics include the story as an example of a UFO hoax, 618 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,000 promoted by a credulous media circus, with the resulting complicity exploited by Walton to make money. 619 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:03,000 UFO researcher Philip J. Klass, who agrees that Walton's story was a hoax perpetrated for financial gain, 620 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,000 identified many discrepancies in the stories of Walton and his co-workers. 621 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,000 Interesting. 622 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,000 After investigating the case, Klass reported that the polygraph tests were poorly administered, 623 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,000 and that Walton used polygraph countermeasures, such as holding his breath, 624 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,000 which apparently is how you can counteract it. 625 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,000 They'll throw off the... 626 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,000 Apparently, that's what he says. 627 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,000 To know. 628 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,000 And apparently Klass uncovered an earlier failed test administered by an examiner, 629 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,000 who included the case involved gross deception. 630 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,000 In 1978, Walton wrote the book The Walton Experience Detailing His Claims, 631 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,000 which became the basis for the 1993 film, 632 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,000 and Walton's account was too fuzzy and too similar to other televised close encounters, 633 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,000 so they ordered a screenwriter to write a flashier, more provocative abduction story. 634 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,000 I don't know if saying it's too similar to other cases 635 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,000 which tracks from the fact that this abduction... 636 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000 I don't know. 637 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,000 Similarity, in my mind, makes it more likely, 638 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,000 but I guess it's easier to lie if you're just gonna say, 639 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000 yeah, it's exactly like that, and get that. 640 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,000 It's true. 641 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,000 It goes either way, I guess. 642 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,000 Yeah. 643 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,000 They would also say if it was wildly different from other abduction stories, 644 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,000 like this clearly is a lie because it's not similar to these other chasers. 645 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000 Like, you could do it either way. 646 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,000 And then this is one people point to as well. 647 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000 30 years after his book release, 648 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000 he was on a TV show called The Moment of Truth, 649 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000 and they administered a polygraph test to him 650 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,000 where they asked him if he was abducted, 651 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000 and he said yes, it came back that he was lying. 652 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000 Okay, so one... 653 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000 That was one of 15 questions that they asked him, 654 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000 and it was the only one where they said he was lying. 655 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000 Yeah, okay. 656 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,000 Science and skeptic writer Michael Schermer, 657 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000 who sat on the panel for that episode, 658 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000 subsequently wrote about this experience, 659 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000 I think the polygraph is not a reliable determiner of truth. 660 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,000 I think Travis Walton was not abducted by aliens, 661 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000 and in both cases, the power of deception and self-deception 662 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,000 is all we need to understand what really happened in 1975 and after. 663 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,000 And then this is just a list of parts of the story that people don't believe. 664 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,000 Travis Walton had previously talked to his workmates about wanting to meet aliens. 665 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,000 He and others, including his crew boss, Mike Rogers, had just watched the UFO incident. 666 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,000 Travis and his domineering older brother, Dwayne, cooked up a hoax with Mike's help, 667 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:19,000 perhaps in hopes of winning the National Enquire's $100,000 prize for best UFO story for the year. 668 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,000 That day, Travis and Mike were missing from the work site for several hours, 669 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,000 and three of the crew members got stoned during the lunch break. 670 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,000 Mike made the crew work two hours later than usual until dark, 671 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,000 and he drove home a different way west along Rim Road, 672 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,000 as reported initially in Not South Pretty Official Story, 673 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000 and stopped when they saw a UFO. 674 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,000 Some skeptics believe that what actually happened is there's a place called Gentry Tower, 675 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,000 that they lit up and drove the guys there, 676 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,000 and that was the UFO that they saw, and also where Travis hid during the five days. 677 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,000 So they believe that he jumped out for a closer look, 678 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,000 and they had an accomplice in this tower flashing a blue spotlight on him, 679 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,000 and he fell back on the ground. 680 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000 Mike drove off in a fake panic. 681 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,000 15 minutes later, he took the crew back to a different spot to look for Travis. 682 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000 They called in the cops when they got back to Heber, 683 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,000 and Mike took the sheriff to what is now the official site, a few hundred yards from the work site. 684 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,000 They also visited Travis' mother, who was staying in the cabin a few miles away. 685 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,000 She was unperturbed by the news her son had been abducted by aliens. 686 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000 A five-day manhunt failed to locate Travis, 687 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000 since it never went near the tower where he was hiding, 688 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,000 and the crew was suspected to foul play, but passed a polygraph test 689 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,000 that asked if they harmed him and if they'd seen a UFO. 690 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,000 The accomplices dropped Travis off five days later in Heber, 691 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,000 which is the next town over near a phone booth, and Dwayne picked him up. 692 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,000 Although Travis dismally failed the inquirer's polygraph a few days later, 693 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000 the magazine gave him and the crew $5,000 to tell the story, 694 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,000 which in today's money would be about $25,000. 695 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000 And J. Allen Heineck has commented on the story in the past. 696 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,000 Here's what he said. 697 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,000 This is the project blue book guy. 698 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000 I've always divided the Travis Walden case in my own mind into two parts. 699 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,000 The first, which involved six witnesses who were giving lie detector tests, 700 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,000 five of who completed it successfully, and the sixth was inconclusive, but not negative. 701 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,000 That part of the story fits a very definite pattern, 702 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,000 the sighting of a greatly illuminated object which was hovering not far from the ground. 703 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,000 All of that fits. 704 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,000 The second part, the actual abduction of Travis Walden. 705 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,000 Of course, we only have his word for this, but the story does hang together, 706 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000 and it is unusual in that the time lapse was so long, five days, 707 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,000 whereas in most of the abduction cases, the time lapse and the time aboard, so to speak, 708 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,000 is a matter of minutes or hours. 709 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,000 The rigorous analysis given psychological stress evaluation tests by Charles R. McQuiston 710 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,000 seems to indicate that Walden is indeed telling the truth. 711 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,000 I thought that would be a good spot to leave off with. 712 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,000 Chelsea, anything else you want to talk about or elaborate on with this story? 713 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,000 I believe him. 714 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000 I think this is one of the episodes out of many that we've done 715 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,000 that I will say that I think I believe him and I'm not left disappointed 716 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,000 in what has gone down in information we have. 717 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,000 And this is why I believe it's always called the most credible UFO abduction case there is 718 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,000 because there are so many witnesses. 719 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,000 There are people who detract from it, but it's hard to find the detractions 720 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000 overpower the actual evidence that these guys have been able to produce over the time, 721 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000 and especially the fact that it's almost 50 years since this happened 722 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,000 and nobody has really changed their story or come out saying they hoaxed it. 723 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000 And he never hoaxed again if he did it. 724 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,000 Like he didn't then say I was abducting it again or this thing. 725 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,000 Well, he even had another UFO sighting and he was just like, 726 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,000 nah, I'm going to stick with the other one because other people got that. 727 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,000 So yeah, I'm happy about that and anybody trying to disprove it. 728 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,000 I mean, people make their living as well just trying to debunk UFO sighting. 729 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,000 So it's not like there aren't going to be people out there with the most well-known, 730 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,000 well-documented UFO story that are going to try and poke holes. 731 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,000 So that's just what it is. 732 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,000 They're trying to disgrace but anything to be able to disprove it. 733 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,000 And one thing I actually found hilarious, I think it's a great thing to leave off on here. 734 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:10,000 In the Joe Rogan interview, he asked him about other abductees at UFO conferences. 735 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000 Travis says he believes less than half of them. 736 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,000 I mean, to shave Travis Walton. 737 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,000 And that is interesting though. 738 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,000 Dale and Heineck said the same thing I did. 739 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,000 It's interesting that it's five days, which seems to be like 300% full of what most abductees carry in. 740 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,000 And the fact that they said that he watched this movie on Betty and Barney Hill, which inspired him, 741 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000 why would he say five days then? 742 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,000 Because the Betty and Barney Hill case is not five days. 743 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000 I mean, he could have just been like, I'm going to take that note, do it. 744 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,000 That could just be a bad coincidence. 745 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,000 UFOs are going to stop abducting people just because there is a TV show on. 746 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,000 I think that's a good spot to end off. 747 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,000 It's a great case. 748 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,000 It's about time. 749 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,000 We needed that. 750 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,000 It's about time. 751 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,000 This is one of those ones where we should have covered it earlier, but we get to it when we get to it. 752 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,000 Yeah, we need it to grow and be able to put it into a nice podcast for you. 753 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,000 Yes, of course. 754 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,000 And I have been Taylor here with Chelsea. 755 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000 We are Journey to the Fringe. 756 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000 Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. 757 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000 Hey. 758 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,000 Thank you for listening to Journey to the Fringe. 759 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:19,000 If you have liked what you have listened to, please like, share, subscribe, or follow, 760 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,000 depending on what venue you are listening to us through. 761 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,000 Also, please, if possible, leave a five-star review, as that really helps us in the algorithms. 762 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,000 Should you wish to interact with us, please check us out on your social media of choice. 763 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000 I bet you we are there. 764 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,000 And if you really want to communicate with us and give us ideas for new episodes, 765 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,000 or tell us that we're wrong and terrible, either way, 766 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,000 please send us an email at journeytothefringeatgmail.com. 767 00:40:46,000 --> 00:41:13,000 For now, I'll see you in the next episode.