You know what that sound means? It's another
episode of Game for a Movie where we ask, are
you game for a movie? My name is Mike. I will
be your host tonight. Today we have a very special
guest. I'm going to make sure I get this all
correct because you deserve all of the respect
on this. So we've got copywriter, publicist,
author, co -creator of the Golden Raspberry Awards,
also known as the Razzies, and my personal king
of bad movies, Mr. John Wilson. Hello, may I
greet you with the sound our award is named after?
Oh, yes, please. I love it. So I've told you
before, as a podcast about bad movies, we love
the Razzie Awards. I compiled a list of some
of the movies we've actually talked about that
have won before or at least been nominated. Some
of my favorites, I'm just going to make it a
smaller list because there's a bunch that we've
covered. Holmes and Watson, Speed 2, Alone in
the Dark. Bratz on All About Steve was one of
my favorite episodes because of how Sandra Bullock
showed up. Yeah, I have a funny anecdote about
that. I saw it on a bargain matinee. Okay. And
there's a scene in the movie where she's on a
bus and she won't stop talking. And the bus driver
votes her off and they throw her out on her butt
in the dust. The audience burst into applause.
indicated i was not alone in my opinion of her
performance i i think you were yeah i think you
were with them on that one i remember seeing
that one alone i wish i kind of had the theater
experience for that because it sounds like it
would have been more of my alley uh well i appreciate
you taking the time i know this is the busy part
of your season and i just want to go into a little
bit about the razzies themselves a lot of people
think that the razzies uh are kind of recent
I know that I didn't know how long you guys have
been going and everything like that. So this
started when exactly? Well, if you're my age,
you'll remember this. The very first Razzies
were held on an Oscar night in my living room
alcove with a cardboard podium. And it was the
year Ronald Reagan was shot and they postponed
the Oscars for only the second or third time
in history. And so all of the programs we had
printed are wrong. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. In our
archive, we may go in with a red marker someday.
But it came about that year because I was working
at a trailer company. And I also volunteered,
quote unquote, to deal with a film festival that
my employer sponsored. Okay. And the deal I made
was I will do all of this work, but I get. second
dibs on the tickets the boss is choice first
obviously yeah funny but i and i kept a list
i used to do that when i was in film school and
by actual count i saw about 250 films that year
god And when you see that many, you begin to
realize, you know what? The odds don't really
favor what the Oscars are talking about. And
in 1980, there wasn't anything at all known that
was doing what we've been doing for 45 years
now. And the other thing that tipped the iceberg
was I went to a 99 cent double feature. of Can't
Stop the Music with the Village People and Olivia
Newton -John in Xanadu. And they would not give
me my 99 cents back. See, the only one I've got
of that is Battle of Los Angeles. I saw it at
a dollar theater and I wanted my dollar back.
Yeah. And not that I think those are both in
ways they weren't meant to be. Those are both
very entertaining bad movies, but they're really
bad movies. And yeah, I remember driving home.
It was August. I had my windows down because
it was warm. And as I'm driving, I'm thinking,
well, you know, there should be an award for
stuff like this. And off the top of my head,
I could name about a dozen movies that would
be contenders. And I just spent the next, this
was in August of 1980, and I spent the next few
weeks doing some research. And that's when I
discovered, I think, Rotten Tomatoes. I don't
remember if it was new or just wasn't known yet.
But yeah, the first year, it was mostly people
I worked with at the trailer company. It was
very let's put on a show kids kind of endearingly
inept. And then I handed out ballots at work
and my boss saw one and got very mad because
we had worked on several of the ballots. Yeah,
that might be bad. But Can't Stop the Music ended
up winning picture and screenplay. Xanadu won
worst director. Neil Diamond, who was only in
one movie that I know of. Yeah, right. Really
dated remake of the jazz singer. He won worst
actor. And I believe it was Brooke Shields in
Blue Lagoon. I'm pretty sure you're right. I
have pulled up the list you sent me on IMDb.
Yes, Neil Diamond, jazz singer. And then, yes,
Brooke Shields in Blue Lagoon. Look at you. Well,
if anybody should know it, I should. It's still
I mean, it's a lot of history to go through.
And the fact that you can remember that is is
impressive as hell. I'm not that old. I didn't
say that. I don't have Alzheimer's. So we have
a friend podcast with us and I was going to save
this until later, but. He wanted me to make sure
you knew that he does not agree with Xanadu being
a bad film. And he and he alone will stand up
for that. Actually, years ago, we had a very
adamant Razzie member who was fixated on that
movie. And he went every night when they made
a stage musical of it, which opened here in L
.A. and then moved to New York. Okay. And yes,
every time we brought it up, he was like, Olivia
Newton -John is just so beautiful. And it's like,
uh -huh. I mean, you can be beautiful and be
in a bad movie. Like, that's not mutually exclusive.
Well, you know, the soundtrack apparently sold
very well. Okay. At some point when I bought
a DVD of it, I think it came with a CD of...
The soundtrack. And the songs are not that awful,
except for the one that was nominated. I think
it was called Suspended in Time. Suspended in
Time. Okay. But, yeah, I mean, I just don't,
I'm not saying you have to agree with us, but
I would guess 97 % or more of the Earth's population.
made to sit through that movie would probably
come to the same conclusion and i love it i mean
in the official razzie movie guide i listed it
as one of the 10 most enjoyable bad movies of
all time i mean it's entertaining as hell but
i don't think you're supposed to be cringing
and laughing and groaning as much as and every
time i've ever seen it with When we got to, I
think it was our 20th year, we did a whole series
of screenings because we were doing awards for
the worst of the century. I think the one that
played the best was Showgirls. Again, I can't
understand how Paul Verhoeven Thought that was
a serious film. If you're going to go for a bad
film, at least make it entertaining, like go
for gold, you know? Well, and one of my favorite
things to recommend, if you're going to watch
Showgirls, turn on the closed captioning. Okay.
Because you're not going to believe they're saying
what you're hearing, but there it is right across
the screen. Must be weird not having anybody
come on you. uh yeah okay that's that's definitely
that's the way i need to watch showgirls now
yep oh my gosh is there any that uh so because
the process is that they get nominations everything
like that is there any that you have disagreed
with to be nominated um i occasionally disagree
with which one they pick to be the winner okay
but i almost never um disagree with what ends
up getting nominated okay um and there there
have been times when i like when battlefield
earth which is another you know amazingly bad
movie um when that swept everything i could tell
when the ballot started it was getting like 93
percent of all the votes yeah i felt free to
vote for the one that i actually loathed that
year which i think it was called little nicky
Oh, little Nikki. Okay. Yeah. Satan's kid. Yeah.
And when I saw that, there was a couple there
with their nine -year -old child. And I just
thought, this is child abuse. Why are you, I
almost went up to them and said, get that kid
out of here. Right. Yeah. But it's Adam Sandler.
Like it's, it's made for kids, right? Oh yeah.
I actually thought he was fairly funny on the.
50th anniversary thing last night. He put in
some effort into that song, which usually is
not true of Adam Sandler. Unfortunately, I didn't
watch it because I was busy watching Unfrosted
last night. Oh, you didn't tape it? You didn't
record it? I recorded it. Yeah, it's on Peacock.
The plan is tonight to, if I don't find a way
to watch Reagan tonight, I'm going to... I think
Reagan is on a bunch of different streaming services.
So I couldn't find it. I would hope it would
be because that would make it a lot easier on
me. There's a thing that I like a lot called
Row 8. Okay, Row 8. And they usually have pretty
good prices and you don't have to subscribe.
You pay individually for what you're watching.
Okay, I will definitely look into that. And I
think that was where I sat through that. Perfect.
That's what I will do tonight then. After watching
the 50th anniversary, of course. Yes. Good stuff
first. Yeah, good stuff first. Get in the right
frame of mind, you know, and maybe enjoy an adult
beverage before I start Reagan. So some of these
movies that have won have gone on to become cult
classics. Do you feel that validates you, or
does it take away from? So my example is Howard
the Duck. People love Howard the Duck, even though
it's awful. I've seen it. I do not care for it.
I don't love it like some people love it. I personally
found that movie excruciating. Yeah, that was
a lot. Now, it was before CGI existed. Yeah,
right. but the duck is just a guy and you know
it's like the guy playing donald duck at disneyland
he's in a rubber suit how is that a special effect
um yeah and it just that one on financial standards
alone that was one of the you know and i'm i
want to say it had either george lucas or steven
spielberg's name on it i think it was it was
lucas yes yeah yeah and back then you know they
were even bigger than they are now lucas has
kind of i thought it was odd the way he walked
away from everything and sold out to disney but
yeah um yeah when it's painful to sit through
um which i found that movie to be and isn't it
leah leah thompson yes she's actually considering
she's got a sex scene with a guy in a rubber
duck suit She saw the script and she said, yes.
Yes. That's one of my, yeah. When people say,
well, she wasn't then it's like they read the
script and agreed to do it. Yeah. Is it them
or their manager who has no standards? And especially
when it's somebody like the only person I can
think of who probably will never be a Razzie
nominee is Meryl Streep. Yes. Probably. Most
likely. And she's especially funny in the Saturday
night live thing. I don't want to. ruin anything
for you it has the best line in the entire three
and a half hours but yeah if they're a reputable
actor like the very first year Alec Guinness
was in a thing called Raise the Titanic which
is another one of the most boring movies I've
ever seen but you know to me Alec Guinness is
one of my heroes I think he's one of the finest
actors who ever lived What the heck are you doing
in that? Now, he did at one point, he has pointed
out the most he was ever paid was when he agreed
to do Obi -Wan Kenobi. And he said the original
deal didn't give him a percentage. But Lucas
came to him after it took off and said, you know,
I certainly can afford to do this. And he said,
you know, it was millions and millions of dollars.
And he's actually, you know, he's... credible
at least as oh definitely no i i that is even
growing up around the time of like the prequels
and sequels and stuff like that alec guinness
is the first one that pops in my head when i
think obi -wan oh yeah so uh where was i gonna
go with this next question i had one oh i was
gonna say how i'm looking at the first year and
everything like that and looking at some of the
nominees still and you're exactly right about
like reputable names the Best Actor category
alone has Michael Caine, Kirk Douglas, Richard
Dreyfuss, and Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. And that
first year, we did 10 nominees in the top categories.
And we realized, well, if you don't... Back then,
we had like 40 or 50 people voting. Yeah. If
you don't have a huge voter base, it doesn't
really mean anything if something, you know...
If they win by three votes because they got...
12 votes. Now, that year I knew that most of
the people had seen the stuff because, like I
said, a lot of it, Kaleidoscope, it was the company
I worked for at the time, they had done the campaigns.
We had to sit through dailies of the concert
scene where Neil Diamond is doing We're Coming
to America. We heard that song about 17 times.
I've lost my train of thought. It happens to
the best of us, trust me. Yeah, and then being
an established name actually I think may put
you at greater risk of being a Razzie contender
because there are expectations and reputations
that... The audience goes in thinking, you know,
you're Kirk Douglas for God's sake. Right. I
would be curious if you've ever seen Saturn three,
which I have not seen Saturn three. No. He co
-starred with Farrah Fawcett in there. Okay.
I know those names. Both of those names. Yeah.
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it didn't win anything,
but yeah, there were just, you know, in any given
year, there really are. If you spend the time
to research it. there are on average 60 or more
pictures that you could make a case for should
be Razzie contenders. Oh, definitely. I do find
it is complicated sometimes. Yeah. Right. I do
find that a lot of these movies sometimes, are
they necessarily the worst of the worst? Or do
you feel like there's a disappointment factor?
Like I'll say this year, even though I do not
care for the movie, joaquin phoenix was pretty
decent at least in joker uh joker 2 and so i
wonder is it just more so like the disappointment
because of how the first one went and that's
why he's nominated well i did some research because
it's in i think six or seven categories this
year yeah um the guy who co -wrote and directed
it todd phillips he didn't want to do a sequel
he didn't think there should be a sequel right
and so i kind every once in a while somebody
tries to come up with something so awful it shouldn't
get made yeah but you know it's like bill cosby
with leonard part six that's what i think was
going on with that movie yeah and i think it
shows you know i mean Who in their right mind
would make a sequel to Joker a musical? Yeah,
right. If you're going to do that, go for it.
Do legitimate choreography, great production
values, well -paced editing. Not this nonchalant
just singing in this movie. This thing is like
a prison movie set to music. Right. there's a
reason there has rarely been anything like that
yeah the only one that comes to mind is prisoners
of love from the producers oh my god um yeah
and it just and again if if you're going to go
there go balls to the wall don't do half -assed
which i very strongly feel jokers joker folie
do i think it sounds it didn't commit to what
it was it was promising to be something spectacularly
off yeah and i agree with that because i i definitely
have it like like i said i don't know if joaquin
phoenix was the bad in this but the screenplay
is terrible i can definitely see why that was
nominated for that and it's um The other thing
is it's often the case that somebody wins an
Oscar for something and then the next thing they
do, you know, it's like you could have done anything.
Why did you pick that? Like early on in the year,
I honestly thought Jamie Lee Curtis had chosen
to do Borderlands after winning the Oscar. Yeah,
right. Everything, everywhere, all at once. No,
it was actually somewhere I read it might be
as much as. four or five years ago they made
it and they finally had the nerve to sneak it
out it's been sitting on the shelf yeah exactly
that one yeah it's very obvious that it was sitting
on the shelf for a little bit when you actually
see it yep um it goes back to like sandra bullock
for example who this same weekend won for all
about steve and then won for the blind side like
it's i i found that year fascinating in that
aspect uh obviously that was a big one that stuck
in me She also had a third movie that year that
was a hit. She was with, I think it was Ryan
Reynolds in, I think it was called The Proposal.
That is the best rom -com of all time. Yeah.
That was actually a fairly funny movie and their
chemistry was good, but. Oh, I love that movie.
Honestly, that's my favorite rom -com of all
time. I forgot that was the same year. I know
there's probably better, but that one, for whatever
reason, it's the one that like my mom turned
on. Well, you think that I meant, it's interesting
that that. That would be the one now. I'm not
sure what that says. I also thought it was incredibly
funny in that. Yes, I agree with that. Yeah.
But yeah, when, when somebody has a huge success
and they, you know, I have this theory that certain
movies only got made because someone involved
had won an Oscar. Right. Sunset Boulevard is
a classic. That's my favorite movie of all time.
Yeah. As a result of it. Academy and box office
success, Billy Wilder got to do a very obscure
but incredibly cynical movie, Kirk Douglas, called
Ace in the Hole. Have you ever seen that? I have
not seen that one, no. Even today, it seems cynical.
It was made in 1951. It was a huge box office
disaster. And then another one of my favorites,
Tom Jones. I think it might have won Best Picture.
I'm not sure about that. The director of that
got to do another of my favorite movies, a thing
called The Loved One. Have you ever seen that?
I've heard of that one. It's in a cemetery. It's
from a famous British novel. Gotcha, okay. It's
so close to being accurate that Forrest Lawn
sued them to try and keep it from being released.
That's a good problem to have when you're so
accurate, right? Yeah. Okay, so some of this
year's, we'll start focusing on that a little
bit. Like I said, I've watched three of the five
worst nominees for Worst Picture. I saw Unfrosted.
on on your mind i'm trying to think of how to
phrase this question some of these movies when
they get nominated um do you feel like it was
always a sure thing like like borderlands for
example it felt like as soon as it released it
was just destined for this like even if the movie
was fine well they The big one that can claim
that mantle this year, because it literally came
out a year ago, is Madam Web. Madam Web. Which
immediately, when it was released, they started
talking about the Razzies and how this was the
frontrunner. I personally thought Madam Web was
incredibly boring. Yes, I agree. And rather pitiful.
And it was so engrossing that I was reminded
as I was watching it that I needed to take a
break to do my dishes. That's a good thing when
watching a movie, right? Yeah. I don't know that
that's the kind of Razzie, certainly not the
kind I appreciate. I like this stuff that's just
crazy mad, totally nuts. What the hell were they
thinking? Which this year I would have to say
is probably... even though joker 2 was close
is a thing called megalopolis megalopolis they
went for it i have taken to calling wtf the movie
the whole time you're watching it line after
line after line you're like what the fuck did
he just say what what's with the costume why
has he got you know why is john voight talking
about his boner i mean and and a big part of
that one it is francis ford coppola you know
and i understand you know that he's what is he
83 or something but yeah he's someone with his
track record with the stuff that he's done with
the credits that he has to make something like
that it's like and he he couldn't understandably
he couldn't find anyone to finance it for him
so he he put all his own money into it which
makes its failure even more personally devastating
to him right oh definitely um i i feel like the
movies lately that we've we've heard of that
are actors directors putting in their own money
have not gone well because there's that i was
thinking of and then the horizon movies with
kevin costner like when when you can't find people
to put in money for it maybe that's a sign sometimes
the money people do know what they're talking
about Not always. Not even most of the time.
Yeah, right. And finance isn't the only measure,
obviously. Right. I have to say, from what I
was reading on the internet, the public really
hated Joker. Yes. I mean, it's one of the few
times where... The critics and the public on
Rotten Tomatoes, they have a secondary meter
on the screen page for each movie, and they are
exactly the same. That's crazy to me. 31 % positive,
which is in Razzie territory. Oh, definitely.
Yeah, for our show, I don't touch a movie unless
it has under 40 % for both, because then people
can agree this is a bad movie. Like, there's
no skirting around it. It's not just, oh, the
audience hated it. Oh, the critics hated it.
This is. Well, we also, I have recently, I've
started looking at the user ratings on IMDb,
which is a fairly good indicator because that's
usually thousands of people. Right. I'll say
sometimes. Not that it was that many for Megalopolis.
Yeah, right. I'll say sometimes you're right
on that because then sometimes like Madam Web.
There was one that stuck out to me when I was
looking at the score for the audience. And it
was like, this movie only made me barf a little
five stars. Some of these ratings, it's just
like, you just got to double check just in case.
Because audience is like 54%. And I don't feel
like it's really that high. This is just certain
people. Well, people, I think the average moviegoer.
isn't nearly as snarky as Razzies are or as critics
are or as film professionals would be. You're
all taught not to say mean things. And over the
45 years we've been doing the Razzies, the whole
PC don't pick on anybody, everybody should only
say nice things, that whole notion has just gone.
crazy right and um it's now part of our culture
and um yeah they on their face the razzies are
insulting they're meant to be yeah they're also
meant to be funny they're not they weren't created
to kick someone in the teeth i like to say we're
not a kick in the stomach we're a banana peel
on the floor and we're not saying how dare you
we're saying why did you yeah right sandra bullock
and again that was her own project it was her
production company she nurtured it all the way
through she did that to herself right um and
you know again you We aren't saying you can't
ever do a good thing again. You've ruined your
whole. But most of these projects, you know,
there is a trajectory to somebody's career when
they've done one of these. It does tend to level
off or plummet. Yeah. Well, I've noticed lately
that somebody like John Voight has kind of been
consistently on that. I thought it was wildly
amusing that when. trump was picking the ambassadors
for the movie industry they're all three big
-time razzie winners okay it's mel gibson john
voight and the king of the razzie sylvester stallone
sylvester oh my gosh that's great and so um you
were talking about the idea of like it's a banana
peel and that kind of thing and i i love that
that's that's a great analogy because that is
in my mind what i have it as There are a lot
of people nowadays with this PC idea, and I'm
not going fully into that, but like the idea
of if you can't say anything nice, don't say
anything. We released a TikTok that was like
five of the worst movies we covered this year
at the end of the year. And people are commenting
like, why? Why are you saying all these bad things
about these movies? I agree with you in the fact
that it's it's not. how dare you it's why did
you the kind of thing like and especially things
that you do like your comeback award like um
the redeemer yes exactly yes the redeemer award
and i everyone thinks they know who that's gonna
go to this year we're gonna go against the grain
we're gonna go with somebody that was snubbed
by the oscars there you go hey you have to you
have to watch to know Little teaser there. Yeah,
I'm not going to say who it is. Right, no, of
course. And, you know, Sylvester Stallone won
a Redeemer Award at one point. Then he went back
to doing Expendables movies. And I was pleased
he was actually mentioned on the nominating ballot
this year. And for the first time I can remember,
he didn't end up. in the final five so maybe
we're over him maybe it's time to finally give
him his career award yeah maybe yeah maybe it's
time to yeah he's he's gone now it's it's over
he hasn't i'm trying to remember what it's called
he has another movie that just came out in which
he's he doesn't always play the lead either anymore
you know right has a secondary is that uh that's
alarum i think it is yes I knew it was a word
they put an extra vowel in, like having a stroke.
Yeah, we considered Alarum for our show. But
yes, he does. Now he's taking a little more of
a backseat. I think you're right on about maybe
he's got his roses now or his Razzies. Well,
the year he won. the redeemer award he was widely
touted to win the academy award right a sporting
actor that was creed right yes yeah and he didn't
win that and he we were told he wouldn't accept
our award because he he thought he was going
to win an oscar and his manager was trying to
convince him to do it she said you know this
is funny you could you could use a little humor
here right Have you found that more people have
been like accepting of it? I feel like before,
like you said, people took it kind of as a kick
to the stomach, that kind of thing. But I feel
lately I've heard more people are just like proud
of it. They're accepting of it because they realize,
hey, sometimes they can't all be gems. Well,
over the years, there have been few and far between.
But I think the greatest one, and it has now
been watched. something like three million times
on our YouTube channel. Halle Berry showing up
for Catwoman. I'm pretty sure I'm a billion of
those viewers. And it's incredible. And if she
could have been that entertaining in the movie,
but she's having fun at her own expense. Right.
And the public loves that. Oh, yeah. Now, a couple
of years later. When Sandra Bullock won both
awards back to back, she won a Razzie Saturday
and an Oscar on Sunday. Yeah. She had a little
more to and, you know, wasn't as, you know, enjoying
the moment as Halle Berry had been. But that
fulfilled one of my favorite fantasies about
the Razzies, which was someday someone's going
to ask a Razzie winner when they walk up the
red carpet the next night about the Razzies.
And every single crew along the red carpet that
year asked her, well, weren't you at another
thing? Yeah, right. You had another project this
year, right? You know, as I recall, one of her
remarks was, well, they're both going to be on
display in my living room, but I'm not going
to put the Razzie on a much lower shelf. Oh,
I would probably have both of them right next
to each other. There it is. There have been a
handful. The guy that wrote L .A. Confidential
also wrote, oh, God, what was it that he won?
I want to say it's The Postman, Kevin Costner,
Futuristically. Yeah. I'm looking it up as we're
talking about it. Helgeland, Brian Helgeland,
I think. Okay. That sounds right. He actually.
He invited us to his office on the Warner Brothers
lot and let us take a picture to post on our
website. He was also, you know, and he said,
I want an Oscar. It's, you know, the Razzies
are funny. And he said, you know, it's both ends
of the scale. You're not always going to do Oscar
caliber work. And he's right about that. I mean,
nobody is always Oscar caliber all the time.
Well, except Meryl Streep. Except for Meryl Streep,
yes, of course. And yes, it was him for the postman.
Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it again. Look at you. I just
wanted to know just in case, but I trusted you.
You knew it. Oh, so you asked me for a list,
and this is getting a little more goofy. You
asked me for a list of Razzies I don't agree
with. And for the most part, I don't have a ton.
I have more nominee stuff than winner stuff,
including 1981, Friday the 13th for Worst Picture.
Okay. I think that's another one that the company
I worked at had done the campaign. Okay. And
it is responsible for that and Halloween. And
Halloween, I actually think is a very good movie.
Yes. Friday the 13th is basically... kids having
sex and getting their throats cut, which it launched
a whole horror genre. Well, I would argue that
that combined with Halloween, although Halloween
was several years earlier, I think Halloween
was 78. Okay. Yes, that's true. That is true.
And they, again, we had 10 nominees that year.
Okay. So filling out the ranks. Okay. I'll give
it to you. You know, okay. The guy who, I want
to say the guy who produced that sent a very
angry email at some point pointing out how much
money it made. Box office does not. You know,
there are plenty of movies that have amazing
box office. I mean, now the room probably has
a great box office and we all know it's terrible.
My son loves that movie. He used to go with groups
of friends to that. It took so long to rise to
the level of public awareness that it wasn't
even on our radar. I mean, it didn't get widely
reviewed. It wasn't, you know, it basically played
midnight shows in West Hollywood. I'll be honest.
I had no clue about it until a teacher of mine
in high school was, she had done a couple extras
things for like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and
that kind of stuff. She was in a couple things.
She had posted. when the disaster artist came
out a journal entry from when she was in hollywood
and she was in line to audition for the room
and like heard screaming heard uh chaos like
there was animal noises there was all these things
and like when she walked in like immediately
all she could smell was just sweat and like That's
definitely one of those movies that when, when
I saw that, I'm like, okay, I need to need to
go see this again. Cause I don't remember this
as much. It's what, you know, one of the hardest
things to do and carry off is a deliberate Razzie.
Right. The only time anyone ever claimed they
had done that was Tom green. Okay. Freddie got
fingered. Yes. And Freddie got fingered. That
was the only year I actually hired a babysitter
and refused to let my son attend the awards.
I did not want him to see specifically the animal
abuse. Yes. That was a truly tasteless movie.
Yes. Probably a good choice on your part, I would
say. And I also, when Tom Green showed up, he's
one of the few who did attend. We took him aside
and we said, your picture's winning five or six
awards. We don't have time for you to get up
there every time it wins an award. Speak for
everyone. You want to go up there. And we realized
once we said that to him, he's particularly arbitrary,
you know, in your face. You told me not to, so
I'm gonna. Yeah. So we talked to the lighting
director and we told him every time it's a. category
we don't want him on the stage turn a screaming
spotlight right in his face and turn off every
other light in the theater be able to get to
the stage without breaking his neck and he he
loved it because he thought oh they're you know
they're spotlighting me there yeah right it worked
he only did get to go up three times he still
made it up three but that's great That's well
done. All right. I like that. All right. There
was one more that I needed to talk about. I had
a list. It's really most of them I'm not arguing
or anything like that. But there's one that I
wanted to bring up that hurt me a little bit.
So in 1995, a certain actor was nominated for
Worst New Star. Oh, you're going to say Jim Carrey?
Jim Carrey. The Mask, Dumb and Dumber, and Ace
Ventura were the reasons. I'm sorry. Those were
like three of his best. I know they're dumb.
See, I don't know if you, I knew him from In
Living Color. I didn't know him from In Living
Color at that point. And he was so wildly original
and just, you know, groundbreakingly twisted.
Yeah, okay. And those three movies, you know,
the whole thing of The Mask. it's basically a
live action version of the old warner brothers
cartoon where the wolf sees the blonde girl and
his eyeballs pop out exactly yeah um which of
the of those three movies i will give you that
one yes okay i have a little more understanding
for that but like dumb and dumber i probably
have seen way too many actually in retrospect
i actually yes over the years have come to especially
after you've seen the horrible sequel with the
other actors that they tried to pull off. Oh,
I've seen that one and the actual sequel with
the same characters. It's not good. Well, again,
you can't, you know, sometimes when something
hits, it is a one -time thing. And it's not,
you can't, I think the expression is capture
lightning in a bottle, can't make the same circumstances
occur a second time. The one I like to point
to is, and this is going to sound like a weird
example coming from the head of the Razzies,
but when Burt Reynolds and Sally Field made the
first Smokey and the Bandit, they were actually
falling in love off camera. And that came across
on the screen. When it was a huge hit and they
decided to do the sequel, they were done. They
hated each other's fucking guts. They didn't
even want to sit in the same vehicle. And that
came across on the screen. Right, exactly. Oh,
you're exactly right, though, about it's impossible
to recapture that same thing. If you can do it,
good on you. I mean, that's impressive as hell.
Godfather 2, to me, is the ultimate example where
I actually thought it was better than the first
one. I would agree with that. Because it was
more creative and it had a lot more... interesting
actors in it. I'm pretty sure that was one of
the first things De Niro ever did that was popular
in the mainstream. I would guess so. I don't
exactly know because I just don't remember that
timeline. But yes, I would guess so as well.
And you're exactly right. I would say it's better
than the original. And then you get Godfather
3. Oh, I have a favorite story about that one
also. Let's go. A friend of mine who worked at
Paramount. and knows that I do the Razzies. She
said, I will get you into an Academy member screening,
but you must behave. And I agreed to. I sat on
my hands. But in the scene where Sofia Coppola
is shot, deadpans the word, Dad, and then smack
face first on the steps of the opera. the Academy
audience burst into applause and cheers that
she was dead. They hate her. And meanwhile, you're
sitting on your hands. Yes, I'm like, well, they're
all doing it, but I don't want Allison to get
in trouble. Do you find when you're invited to
these events, you're told to behave? I actually
worked on campaigns for some of this stuff. Like
I did the campaign for one of my very favorite
bad movies, Lonely Lady. Lonely Lady, okay. And
again, you can tell even in rough cut, like Jaws
3D, you didn't have to have the lame -o 3D effects
to know that thing sucked. Right. Yeah, I think
it's actually easier to make a good promo for
a bad movie because 90 % of it you don't want
to show because it's so awful. Right. You're
limited to – we basically – they licensed a song.
I think it was The Fanatic. Okay. Cut the trailer
to the rhythm of that song, and you couldn't
tell what was going on. You could tell that she
was half naked in a lot of the movie. Right.
It was fairly tasteless. They mentioned Harold
Robbins, but it was like boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom, out. Yes, one of the things when you know
you have a bad movie, one of the things you do
is I call it the Benihana style of editing. Give
anybody 10 seconds to figure out that's bad acting.
That's a ridiculous costume. You don't want to
leave it in there. Yeah, exactly. You're exactly
right. I feel like it would be easier to make
a trailer of a bad movie because you just pull
the good stuff that seeps to the top almost.
The crud that floats to the top. One of the hardest
campaigns I ever did, I actually worked on the
campaign for Silence of the Lambs. Okay. And
my client thought I was nuts. I said, this is
going to win every Oscar. It's a horror movie.
You don't know what you're talking about. Oh,
yeah? Yeah, right. I think you know what you're
talking about. Well, yes, I'm an Alex Salmon
Oscar baby. I grew up watching them with my parents
when I was a child in Chicago. It was one of
the few nights of the year I was allowed to stay
up late. Yeah. I remember very clearly when Patty
Duke won an Academy Award for Miracle Worker,
which is an incredible movie. Yeah. But I remember
thinking, she's not a lot older than I am. They
give Oscars to kids? Right. The way you just
said that. Okay. So a couple of years ago and
there was a kid nominated for worst actress.
I think you guys pulled it. Am I correct? Yeah.
Yes. And we turned around and gave that award
to ourselves. Okay. Yes. Yeah. That was it. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you find that happens often, something
like that? Because I've seen that one, and then
I've seen the Shelley Duvall one got retroactively,
like the nomination got taken away because we
saw what she went through on The Shining. Yeah.
Yeah, there are times when it really isn't the
fault of the person whose face is on screen.
Right. In the case of Firestarter, that was a
remake. Again, a movie I had worked on the campaign
for the old one was Drew Barrymore, which wasn't
awful, but it wasn't that good. I don't really
know why they wanted to remake it. That was the
question when it was coming out was just kind
of like, of all the things to remake, this is
the one? Yeah. And it isn't one of King's better
novels either. I used to, I had a friend in college.
that we both loved Stephen King and her birthday
was in October and mine was in May. So our agreement
was I would give her the book that came out in
the spring for her birthday. She'd read it and
give it to me. And then she would, you know,
we would trade off and that way we were able,
he averaged about two books a year. The guy was
frighteningly prolific. Oh yeah. Yeah. He, he
cranked them out. Yeah. But, um, Yeah, that was
a very, that whole thing about the, I should
remember her name, but I blocked it. Yeah, right.
It was a very unpleasant experience for everyone,
I think. Yeah. But there were people, I thought
this was very odd. There were people saying that
by nominating her for a Razzie, we were grooming
her for something, which is a... term for you
know yeah philia yeah right like it's a razzy
if you're trying to plant somebody you're not
going to nominate them for a razzy right you're
going to come up with a bullshit thing that says
you're fabulous yeah exactly it's just the the
polarization of public opinion largely due to
the internet is one of the things that's most
safe significantly changed over the years with
the Razzies. How has it changed? It's more negative,
would you say, or more positive? There's more
umbrage. People take offense at who dominated.
It's a joke. Get over yourself. And it can have
a rather large impact. But it's not, like I said
earlier, it's not meant to be offensive. It's
meant to be, like another thing I say a lot is,
if you got $20 million for playing Mr. Freeze
in a Batman movie, and you also got a Razzie
nomination. you still have $20 million. That
ought to be able to buy you a sense of humor.
I can't imagine anybody that we're particularly
talking about with that. No, I'm being vague
intentionally. Yeah, right. It was an ice pond.
Sorry. God, I'll be honest. I still love that
movie, even though it's terrible. batman and
robin yeah oh yeah yeah it's it's definitely
one i i i'm a self like i i'm trying to give
myself self self pain i think and i enjoy bad
movies for the sake of enjoying bad movies but
i was trying to think before this interview like
what are some of the ones that i've seen that
i actually enjoyed and batman and robin was one
of them um i don't know if it was nominated but
like i always defend mortal combat annihilation
I think Alicia Silverstone won supporting actress
for that. And it's funny, her character's name
was the name of the woman who was my wife at
the time. Trying to figure out if we could get
a joke in there. And she said, I am not going
up on the stage. Yeah, right. I'm not doing that.
Yeah, because I was looking at some of them.
I don't remember if it was nominated or not.
It might not have been. But like Mortal Kombat
Annihilation, I'm a constant defender of. think
so only because again our members generally until
recently when comic and video game based movies
became pretty much the backbone of big budget
Hollywood movie making our members didn't seem
to be into either of those genres yeah that's
fair well we started talking about this year's
nominees Do you find that for certain movies,
there are, as soon as it's nominated for Worst
Picture, everything else kind of follows and
like happens? Or does it start with like one
nomination and then just kind of snowball? I
mean, in our voting process? Yeah. Yeah. Well,
there is a great deal of crossover. Our members
tend to think if something is bad enough to be
nominated for worst picture, it's probably going
to get at least three or four. It's very rare
that something gets a worst picture nomination
and nothing else. I think only once in our whole
history has something won worst picture without
winning something else. And that was a weird
little movie called The Color of Night. I think
it was Bruce Willis and he's a therapist. Right
there, you're in trouble. Yeah, right. But they
do tend to, and I don't, I can't guarantee, but
then neither can the Academy or the Golden Globe
Committee, that our voting members actually see
this stuff. Unfortunately for me, I do. Because
in situations like this, I like to be able to
discuss from having seen this stuff. Why was
it nominated? Does it deserve to be? Which award
should it get? And then just, I consider it kind
of, it's not a job because I really don't make
money doing it, but it's my avocation. I painted
myself into this corner by coming up with it
all those years ago. How many hours do you find,
especially at this point of the year, that you
work on this? Well, what I tend to do is this
time of the year, I'm focused on the current
year and promoting it and, you know, building
the video and press release and blah, blah, blah.
But I mostly watch stuff now streaming. I very
rarely actually see something in a theater anymore.
The last thing I saw in a theater was Cats. Oh
God. That probably is a factor in my not wanting
to go to a theater ever again. That almost was
my last movie in theaters before COVID. It was
like, it was, and it was, again, it was a matinee
and there were like six other people in the theater
and everyone else was wondering why I was laughing
maniacally. But it's a musical lighten up. I
mean, like, uh, yeah, cats. Cats was almost the
end of me, I think, with this show and just in
general. Well, the show itself was rather epithel.
I actually, I saw it on Broadway before it had
formally opened. Okay. I was on a trip with a
friend in Manhattan and we thought, well, that
looks weird. Maybe that would be fun. And other
than the song Memory, which is... an amazing
song and the woman who sang it was quite amazing
and I think she won a Tony but it's basically
like they took a litter box and made it into
a musical it's it's true it's true set your litter
box to music yeah Andrew Lloyd Webber oh my gosh
but yeah That's one of those things where there
were a whole bunch of different concepts thrown
at Universal about how to turn this thing into
a movie. And I think, you know, do the whole
thing as CGI. Don't just do their whiskers and
their claws, you know, and dress them up like
they've gone to the party city store. And yeah,
that's another one where pretty much everything
about it. I mean, the minute the trailer hit,
we posted it on our website. We posted the link
to it and said, this looks like the one. This
is it. Yeah, exactly. This is sitting here. We're
ready. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And yeah, it was rightfully
so. Every year you have the presentation of the
Razzie Awards, obviously. This year, it's usually
the night before, correct? Yes. Yes, the first,
I think, three years, we did it as an Oscar -watching
party, and then we did our presentation afterward.
Okay, yes, that makes sense. The fourth year,
one of my clients, who knew I did the Razzies
and thought they were wonderfully funny, he said,
well, why don't you do it the day before? Because
there's press from literally all over the world,
and they have nothing to do, and they're already
in Hollywood. And that's when it really took
off. nice we are not actually this year we are
not actually doing a full -blown show we're doing
a press release okay and um but yeah it over
the years it was a great deal of fun yeah mounting
a show and finding the quotes and we had a wonderful
cast of people who could just put the perfect
snarky spin on stuff and um it was quite clear
it was you know When you have a live show, it's
quite obvious it's supposed to be funny. Yeah,
right. In print and as a video press release,
sometimes people do misconstrue it. They think
that it's straight up mean. Right. The kick to
the stomach instead of the banana peel. Yep.
See, I'm going to keep using that. I think that's
great. That's exactly what it is. buy memberships
to vote, everything like that. They can be a
part of it. I know I signed up. I signed my buddy
Mitchell up as well. Well, you can see our website,
razzies .com, as a page. But if you join at this
point, you're not going to get a nominating ballot,
obviously. You're going to get the final ballot.
Yes. uh voting is open i know and everything
like that do you find that most of the people
now that have memberships they watch them all
or they just kind of are voting for one movie
in particular that they just want to there are
yeah there are people who you know like to spread
i like to say spread the loathe around okay but
there are people who just you know down the whole
thing it's like joker joker joker joker what
web madam what you know right there does tend
to be that kind of voting okay i like to think
that people have seen it because our it's not
that common anymore for something to sweep to
win you know like there's nine categories and
redeemer yeah it's very rare for something to
win even five anymore yeah right uh Something
like Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey, I know
won a couple. And I think that's the last one.
And we didn't, we decided, we didn't think it
was fair to pick on the actors because the whole
thing costs like what, $100 ,000. Right. And
the guy who wrote and directed it publicly chastised
us, you know, I'm up against $100 million movies.
And I said, you don't have to have money to have
talent. Right. Apparently you hadn't either.
you're exactly right on that i i've watched those
that's you could do a decent story and be fun
with it with a lower budget but well if you also
um if you're going to put that kind of a spin
on something as beloved as winnie the pooh is
yeah right you better be clever you better be
funny and it better be clear that you have your
tongue in your cheek Yeah, right. Exactly. This
was your basic babes in bikinis slasher movie
with two people in Winnie the Pooh and I think
it was Piglet? Piglet, yes. And they looked like
Halloween masks. There was no effort made to
do anything of merit there. Right, right. It
was definitely cheapo the movie and that's fine
if that's what you're going for. But yeah, you
can't then complain and say. Well, it was the
budget's fault. Well, John, I know we're just
about out of time, so I wanted to say thank you
for coming on and everything like that. You can
go to Razzie's .com, obviously. Where else can
we find you? Well, our whole history is listed
on IMDb. on their awards page. You kind of have
to scroll down on the master list and find Razzie's.
And then all of the movies that we've nominated
and given awards to over the years in the page
about their awards were listed. And I will post
that in the description of this episode so that
you can find it yourself as well. I want to say
thank you for spending even the shortest amount
of time even. It was more... It was entertaining.
It was informative. I really appreciate you taking
time. Well, and we appreciate your interest.
Yeah. If people do join, hopefully they will
join in the spirit of having and making fun as
opposed to, you know, vengeance as somebody who
lives in a big white house right now seems to
think about all the time. Yeah, exactly. No,
no vengeance. We're here for, for goofy. There
you go. Well, I appreciate it. And thank you
again, really for taking the time. You are very
well. Well, wait, very welcome. Thank you for
tuning in the game for a movie podcast. Bye for
now.