Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 72. We are the Nelsons.
I'm Shaun. And I'm Lanette. And today we are super excited to bring another
episode that's an interview with an adoptee who grew up with an open
adoption. So today we're going to be talking to Devanie. And Devanie is
wonderful and I love how we were able to connect with her. I have a friend who I
was talking to here in our hometown where we live. And she and I were talking
about open adoption. And then she was like, you know, I've never like made this
connection before, but I have a friend who grew up with an open adoption. And
she's like a mom now and has this really rounded perspective where she grew up
with that open adoption. She's a parent now and it's this big thing. And she was
like, and she was in the news because open adoption was so rare when she was
little anyway. So I was super excited that we were able to connect. So this
conversation is in our kitchen and the microphone is a lot closer to Devanie.
So I'm just going to apologize right now. The audio is not perfect, but it was
really neat to have a face to face conversation in person about this. And so
again, the audio is not perfect, but the conversation, oh, it was amazing for me.
So enjoyable. I loved talking to Devanie.
Yeah. And editing this episode, listening to this conversation was really
enjoyable for me and we hope it will be for you too. And we'll recap some of our
thoughts at the end. So we'll jump to our interview with Devanie.
So we are here on the podcast with Devanie. Am I saying that right?
Yeah.
Okay, good. Devanie, we're so excited to have you here. To start off, can we have
you just share about yourself?
Yes, for sure. As far as like hobbies go, I am kind of a family history nerd. I
love it. I love researching family history, finding records, reading old
newspapers. Like that's one of my big things I've just kind of like gotten
into as a young, I guess, like 12 year old and then just kind of it's morphed
into this whole new kind of obsession. I love it. I love it. Yes, I love family
history. I actually have kind of like, I don't know if you call it a hobby, kind
of, I actually help people find their birth parents. I'm using genetic
genealogy. So that's actually how I found my birth dad. So I love to be able to
help people who don't know how to find their birth parents. Okay, here's the
tricks of the trade with DNA. Here's some ways you can do it. Because sometimes
you'll get a really easy, oh, here's your match and it's your parent, you know,
it's your birth parent or it's your, you know, close match. But if you get if you
don't get good matches, you can, it can take forever to find. So I love doing
that. I like to take my kids out in nature and soak up experiences. That's
kind of about me as far as like my hobbies and stuff.
All right. Well, you're here because you are an adoptee. Yes. And you work with an
open adoption. Right. So can you share your adoption story, whatever you want to
share?
Totally, totally. So yeah, so we'll start from like the very, very beginning.
Okay, so my parents could not have kids. My mom tried some fertility treatments,
like whatever they were doing in the 1970s, it didn't work out for her. She
when she married my dad, because she was previously married. But when she
married my dad, he's like, Oh, we don't need to worry about any of that. He's
like, let's adopt. And she's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm so grateful that you want to
adopt too, because she was kind of tired of doing all the fertility stuff. And I
think it just kind of Yeah, it was exhausting. And so I think it was
refreshing to her that my dad did not have this like obsession with having to
have like his kids being a genetic carbon copy of himself. So I think it's
really cool that they were just like all in together. And like, as soon as they
started the adoption process, they were both just gung ho about it, you know, he
was all about it. So and I think that was that's really neat that he didn't
have this, this idea that he had to have like a genetic child, right. So they
ended up adopting my sister Hillary, and then my sister Haley. And then through
the LDS social services at that time, if you had two children in your home
already, then they would, you know, kind of like you weren't really going to be
on the list for looking for a child anymore. You know, you had they're like,
Okay, you have two kids like, you're great. Let's let's give like, these
other children, families that don't have any kids, right. So, so my parents
thought they were done and so grateful that they had these two kids. And when
those were both, I would call one, I think my older sisters was private, but
also closed. And because her birth mom did not want contact, but it was done
through a private lawyer. And then my sister Haley, hers was a private
adoption through LDS family services. So but hopefully I'm not wrong on that.
Anyway,
yeah, oh, yes, I'm close. Yeah. So the, yeah, the first one was a private
close. And the second one was LDS family services closed, because I don't think
they did open adoption is like the year that my sister was born. Anyway, so then
like, I don't know, my mom would be able to tell the exact date. But so they got
they adopted Haley. And then like, I would say maybe like nine months later,
my mom got a phone call from her brother in law who lived in Seattle. And or
maybe it was her sister, I don't know. But anyway, my mom's brother in law was
a doctor. And he was doing his residency in Seattle. And I guess he wasn't a
doctor yet for being specific. I don't know how it works. But he was doing his
residency. And he, he had this woman come in and say, I mean, if I'm just
summarizing my memory correctly, hey, I, I want I am pregnant. And I, I want to
place the baby with a family. And I do not want the baby to just go off into
the distance and not know what happened to the baby. I know that you I think he
was doing like an OB GYN rotation, or he was just, he delivered a lot of babies
at that point. And she asked him if he had any patients who, who he knew of that
couldn't have babies that wanted to adopt. And he, he told her, you know, I
he's like, I don't think I can legally tell you that. So he's like, but if you
happen to find a list of names on the way out the door, there might be a there
might be a list. I don't know. Like he was just trying to be like really
careful. So he had made a list of people that he knew might be interested. And on
her way out, she grabbed the list and she contacted people. And so the doctor, he
called my mom, hey, because they were you know, that was his sister in law. Hey,
just heads up. I just gave her name to this woman who is trying to trying to
place her baby and interested in placing a baby for adoption. And so heads up, you
might be contacted and my parents like, Oh, that's wonderful. Wow. You know, we
thought we'd be open to that. So my, my birth mom, that was my birth mom. My
birth mom contacted the people on the list. And this is back in the day. So she
just wrote them a letter and then the families wrote letters in response. And
so I still have the letter that my dad wrote. My dad was like all in he was
gangbusters about it. He installed typed up on like an old typewriter. And he
included pictures of like my of them with their kids, you know, my sisters.
Anyway, my my birth mom was immediately attracted to the fact that there were
already two kids in the home. And that fact that they were also adopted. And she
loved the idea of me having siblings and especially sisters. And she liked that
our family had a faith background. And she wanted me to be raised in some sort
of like religion. She wasn't raised in a religion, but she had some friends she
really respected that were LDS faith. And so she liked that my family was LDS or
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And so she was attracted to the
home life that she knew I would probably have. And then, yeah, so I think from then
on, they exchanged maybe a couple more letters, and then they started doing
phone calls. And they decided, you know, let's do this, we want to do this. And
she, you know, double check with them, Hey, I really want to know, like, you
know, I know my baby's gonna go to you and be part of your family. How do you
feel about keeping this like open contact and doing like the adoption to a private
lawyer? And they were like, Oh, we have a friend who would do it here in Orange
County. Like, so they were, yeah, that'd be great. So, so, yeah, they kind of just
said because they had had good experiences with her on the phone. They're
like, Yeah, let's do this. And I also know that my mom has said the reason why
they felt so good about it was because they already had two children. And, you
know, that were adopted. And my mom said, you know, if you are first, it might have
been hard for us to imagine doing an open adoption. Because, you know, when
you're a new mom, and you're adopting a baby, you might have some insecurities,
unknown terrain. But my mom was just like, you know, we already had these two
girls. We felt confident as parents, we knew that it's love that makes a family.
It's not your DNA. So by the time your birth mom, you know, we talked about
this, we felt comfortable. And they knew that my birth mom was like a healthy,
mentally healthy person who wasn't going to be intrusive in our lives. And so
they just Yeah, they drafted up some sort of, I guess, legal thing and maybe
adoption. Well, not finalized. Yeah, obviously. But she, my mom's gonna listen
to this and just make you have some of these things wrong. Anyway, as far as I
know, yeah, she was like, Okay, well, I would like you guys to be part of the
birth. If you guys want to come to Seattle, if you want to come, then I want
you there if you want to be there. And this was like, crazy, because back then
no one was doing open adoptions really. And was there even a term for open
adoption? Do you know? I think there might have been because of a story that
happened nine months after I was born. And I'll tell you that part. But I'm not
sure. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know that term. But open adoption
is a quiet term. But I heard it. My family heard it for sure nine months
later, nine months after I was born. But anyway, so my dad, his parents
happened to be living in Seattle at the time, which is just crazy. So my parents
flew in around my due date, and stayed with my dad's parents. And then when
Carla was going into labor, they they headed over to the hospital. So yeah, and
it was a long labor. So they had plenty of time to get there. And then my mom
told my mom, my birth mom told my mom, I want you to hold her first. So my mom
got to hold me first. Yeah. And I have some really cool pictures of just like
the people that were there. And my mom holding me and I also have a picture of
my birth mom looking at me like, you could just see hope and like, content
ness in my birth mom's face. Like, it wasn't this like somber, sad moment, at
least in the picture, she could tell that I was going to a good family. And
she was very happy about her choice. I mean, that's just because of who she was,
where she had been in her life. She just felt very good about my family. And
anyway, you can just see in the picture, like, she has a smile of contentedness.
And there's a warmth radiating from her. I just it's really beautiful for me to
see that moment. You know, but it was it was very difficult. She you know, my
birth mom's told me later, it was very difficult for her mom, my grandma Fran, I
was the first granddaughter and she had offered, you know, hey, let's let's take
we'll take care of the baby. And my birth mom's sister, my aunt Kathy, she
even offered like, hey, maybe we'll adopt her because they had a son, like a
couple years before I was born. And Carla just had this conviction, like, no, I
feel so good about this family. And I really want I really want this for my
baby. And anyway, so it was just kind of really neat to see her resolve. And yeah,
just like kind of know that for me, I felt like it was a very guided resolved
decision that she felt very, like led to, you know, so anyway, yeah, so that's kind
of like, the very beginning. So my parents, I think they, they adopt official
adoption day, I mean, they were there at the moment I was born. And then after
all this, I think everything was fine. All of us all they they stayed at my
grandparents house in Seattle. And then we flew back to Orange County, where my
parents were living at the time. I was like two weeks old. And I got like the
first first flight certificate, I still have it. I was in my file. My mom always
kept to my files. Cute.
Amazing. And so you grew up with Carla in your life?
Yes, I grew up with my birth mom Carla in my life. So yeah, that'll take me to
that spot. I want to tell you about that word open adoption. So when I was about
nine months old, my family had or maybe I was 10 months old. Yeah, is my mom
told me that when when I was about 10 months old, our family moved from Irvine
to San Luis Obispo, California. And so just like a few mile or a few hours up
the coast. And somehow, I don't know, I have to ask, but somehow someone at
Como News in Seattle, Washington, like it's like one of their big news companies
up there, someone found out about us. And I don't know, I have to ask how it all
happened. But they were doing a special on Como News about open adoption. And
like I have the video of the special that they did. They flew my birth mom
down to San Luis Obispo to see me for the first time after I was born. And so
you know, she's, yeah, she's she's just come down from Seattle. And like, this
woman comes on like the screen and says, it was the news anchor or whatever, she
says, what I'm about to tell you may be shocking. It's just really interesting.
But like, I don't sure if I get the wording quite quite correct. But it might
be shocking. But there's a new a new form of adoption that is called open
adoption. And here's how four families are coping with this with this new
adoption thing. I don't know, like exactly. And so we were one of like the
four people that they like interviewed and stuff. I just think it's funny that
this is maybe shocking. Because like, by the time I watched that clip, I was like,
I don't know, probably five or something. I saw that I'm like, shocking. What do
you mean? Doesn't everyone have a birth mom? I'm really confused. Like, I just
so Carla came down and they did this cute story of just like, you know,
explaining like, oh, Carla's in contact. And, you know, and the family is letting
her come visit and, and she gets to hold her baby and she gets updates, you know,
for birthdays. And so my parents, they kept it just like friendly and cordial
with her and just, and my birth mom, I think she naturally is kind of a private
person. And so I feel like she didn't want an excess of communication. She
didn't want to insert herself. She just wanted to make sure I was happy. And she
want I think she probably just wanted to know that she made a good choice. And I
think it felt good for her to get the updates and to like have open
communication. So we from what I remember, like I still have these like
little envelopes, like we would exchange photographs, and there would be phone
calls. I remember like on my birthday growing up, I'd always get a phone call
from Carla on my birthday. I always get like a Christmas present and you know,
just and then my my grandma Fran, Carla's mom, I remained very close to her
throughout my whole my life and her whole life. So that was like a very
treasured relationship from having an open adoption. And just I always felt so
comfortable and normal around Carla and talking to her and it just always made
me feel so secure. Like, oh, yeah, like, yeah, my birth mom, she really one of the
best for me. So I get this family and I have these sisters and like, doesn't
everyone like I just didn't cross my mind that people I just thought that's how
families were, you know, I just felt so natural. Yeah. And like when I was when
that like one of my first memories, I might have been like four, I don't know.
Because you know, that doctor after the adoption was final, that doctor became my
uncle, because the doctor's wife is my mom, Marilyn's sister. So like, that
doctor, you know, and like, we would go visit my mom's sister and, you know, my
uncle Adrian, we'd go visit them every once in a while in Seattle. And whenever
we'd go visit them, we'd also make a detour and go see Carla and Fran. And so
I think I have this memory of visiting them when I was like three or four and
meeting Carla's husband. And yeah, I don't I think she was she. So she had my
birth mom had three kids after me. So yeah, anyway, but I just I had like some
fun footage also on family video cameras and stuff of just visiting them and just
I've always known my grandma. I've always known my aunt and my uncle, you know,
from my birth family. And it's just, it was just always kind of like, I felt I
was special. I'm like, this is this is great. I get to visit my birth family.
And the word birth family was a very normal word in my life. I think I remember
like the first time learning about birth mom was like, I don't even remember it
was like, I've always known that word. Yeah, so I always thought Annie was such
an interesting story. I'm like, I'm like, Andy didn't know her birth mom. That's so
weird. And then what about your sisters who were also adopted? Was there ever any
like tension or anything because they didn't know their birth mom? I don't think so. Like,
there I don't think that even if there was like they never outright said like,
well, it's no fair. You get to know who your birth mom is. And I think that they
just maybe just kind of were onlookers. They liked the trip to Seattle. Like, I
don't know, they just kind of like, oh, interesting. But my, my grandma friend
would always send gifts for my sisters. Like as well, like she would send gifts.
Like when she sent me presents, like for Christmas, she would send my sister's
presents. Yeah, just like she was just she made the kids feel like everyone had a
like that grandma friend was kind of a little bit part of them too. I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, not like not just like, I mean, they wouldn't like have that same
like visit or whatever. But they, you know, at least once a year, they got a
present from a friend as well. So yeah, that was and then when I was about 12,
right before like I was 12, my grandma friend asked my mom, Hey, would you ever
be willing to let Devanie come up here and visit for a little bit during the
summer? And my parents were like, Yeah, that's fantastic. Like we you know, if
she wants to do it, she can totally come up. So I when I think when I was 12, my
mom and I went to the San Jose airport or something. And then, you know, my mom
like, I think she could walk me to like the gate at that time. And like, you
know, right when I get on like the the airplane, so I got on the airplane. And
then when I got to Seattle, my birth mom was at the airport, like right at the
gate to pick me up. So my first like solo flight was I think I was 12 to go to
my grandma Fran. So I stayed with my grandma Fran for like, I don't know,
maybe a week. And then Carla came down to visit us from Seattle because Fran
lived in Lacey, Washington by Olympia. And so Carla would come down and just
like, because you know, she had, I think by then she had two kids. And then, yeah,
so she had a job and two kids. And so she came down to visit, but I stayed with my
grandma Fran. It was super fun. And then every summer after that I would visit.
And then I would start going to Carla's house for part of the trip too. So I
would see my siblings, my half siblings. Yeah, yeah. So and I just had a
lot of laughs getting to know my cousins that were right in Lacey as well, getting
to know my aunt. So it just, it always just made me feel like I just had like,
I just, I felt like I belonged there too. But every time I was going home back to
California, I'm like, Oh, I'm so excited to go home to my to be with my family.
Like, I always had, I had such a great time with them. But I always had this
like, feeling of, okay, I'm so glad, like I got this time with them. And I am so
excited to go home. Like, it was just like this really good balance of enjoying my
time, but knowing where home actually was, you know, but I always felt I was like I
belonged in both places. So yeah, it was like a really good feeling of like
belonging, you know, and feeling like I had more people to love that loved me.
Yeah, I feel like that's a common thread that I hear from adoptees that they
don't feel like they belong with either of their families. And so I love that
you were able to feel that you belong in both.
Oh, totally. Yeah, it's almost felt like when you go, I guess when you see it in
a movie, like someone lands on an island and then like, you know, the people on
the island are like, you are an honored guest. Like, you know, like I just felt
like an honored like an honored guest whenever, whenever I would go. My birth
family always made me feel very special. Like they were very excited to spend
time with me. And, you know, we always had some good meaningful conversations.
And yeah, my grandma from was like the best conversation when she's from the
south. And it was a delight. It was always a delight to talk with her and
just get soak up all her stories and stuff. And my grandpa. Yeah, it was
really, really special for sure.
How cool. Yeah. Alright, so with your unique experience for your adoption was
always open. Do you feel like you had maybe a contrasting experience from
other adopters your age or your sisters?
Um, I don't I mean, I'm sure I'm absolutely sure I had a different
experience. I'm sure that well, we you know, you just kind of know everyone
processes their adoption differently mentally. I think me knowing I was
adopted from the beginning. We all knew from the very beginning, my parents were
very open about the fact that they adopted every like all of us like, they
never tried to keep that secrets from the kids or they were always willing to
talk about it. But yeah, I think that I think looking back, I'm and after
talking with other adoptees, I know that knowing my birth family has made a
difference for me with maybe my maybe like my confidence of my core person.
Like I feel like a lot of adoptees might not have so much confidence in like
this core person that they are. But that's me speaking like not from the like
I don't I'm not I don't know what they feel exactly. But my observation is for
on like my end of it is I always had a very strong sense of confidence of who
my core person was. Because there was no mystery. And I mean, I, it's obviously
not my my siblings fault that they didn't know who their birth parents
were. But I think it did help me just kind of like, yeah, I'll just bounce off
to Seattle and bounce back and you know what I mean? And then, oh, I can't forget
to say this is really a huge part of our story as well. When I was about four
years old, I believe, my family felt very impressed to adopt a young woman who
was 12, who was in a foster home. And so we adopted my sister McKay, I think we
started maybe maybe the process which is just over maybe 13. Anyway, I don't
remember life without her. So she's always been my sister in my brain
because I hardly have any memories before that. But she has this whole other
story too. And hers was from being placed in her first family, her birth mom. She
was placed in her first family as a like, I think a brand new newborn. And then her
family. Her first I call it her first family. So there's birth family, then her
first family and then us. Her first family when she was I think 12, they
gave her up for adoption. And I can't even imagine the absolute like, like,
just shock and like, what that does to your inner core, you know what I mean?
But that's obviously it's not my story to tell at all. But it's a huge part of our
family story that my parents were like, she, she belongs with us, like, they felt
very strongly that she belongs belonged with our family. And so I think with the
it got through that my parents have gone through these different experiences with
you know, they're the first two sisters than me and then McCann ended up being
the oldest, you know, so she's adopted the last but she's the oldest of all of
us. And so that my parents just have a lot of experience with adoption and the
different types of like what that looks like. And yeah, like how it affects
people how people's story affects them in their adoption. So my sister McKay,
like her, her story, she I'm sure she processes her story quite differently
than I do, because she had a first family that that ended up giving her up for
adoption. I don't even know if that's even legal anymore. I don't think you
could do that. I don't understand. I don't know. Yeah, so they ended up having
biological children after her like, like a lot. So I don't think I think they
didn't know they could have kids maybe and then they so they adopted her and
then all of a sudden they have like five kids and I don't know, I really don't
know their story. But um, but yeah, so I think she, you know, she had two layers
of being placed. Yeah, and I'm sure that she processed that very differently. So
it all I think it all boils down to how you process your experiences. And I was
fortunate enough to be able to know about my situation from a very early age
and to have like a lot of support around it. And I think my parent, my sisters
would also agree that they had a lot of support about being adopted. And like it
wasn't this mystery, like, yeah, you're adopted. And we love you. And we chose
you. We wanted to, you know, but yeah, we all have different stories. Like, yeah,
like I could just go on and on and on for days. But I'll, I'll let you ask me
some more questions. It'll probably prompt. Yeah, some more things. So
interesting. Yeah. So how do you feel like your experiences with the openness
might have led you to where you are today?
It definitely, like I said, like I felt always felt confident as an adopted
person. It made me really excited to find my birth dad, because I had such a good
experience with my birth mom. And I was like, yeah, this is normal. This is like,
that it's not a big deal. Like, but it's extremely important to me, I want to know
who my birth dad is, you know, and I think that gave me confidence to go out
and look and feel, feel like I could go like I could answer this huge question
inside of me. I could move forward with confidence because this because of this
open exchange. And also like something my mom always says, as she's on this been
on this journey with me, my mom, Marilyn, people is wait, which mom? But yeah, so
she always says, you know, love is not territorial. And she learned that early
on, my mom learned that early on, because her mom passed away when she was 13. And
her dad remarried a widow who had six children. And so her her stepmom was just
a very loving, embracing woman. And, and it, you know, my mom had four
siblings, four siblings, and then so there were five of them, the Stone family,
and then there were six jolly kids. And so when the parents got married, they
were the jolly stones. I know, right. But like, there was no question, like they
were a family there. And I think it was in the 50s, I believe when they late 50s,
I think when they combined families. And so my mom, she was like, yeah, love is
not territorial. Like, her siblings who she identifies as her siblings, not
step siblings, she's never called them steps, ever. I've never heard her say my
step brother or my step sister. I've never once heard my mom say my stepmom,
it's always my mom, Jean, you know. So it's really interesting. I think my mom
had this perspective of, like love has no territories. Because of the way that her
family was blended when she was a young teenager. And so when she's adopting, my
mom's adopting her daughters, she's like, it's more people to love. And the fact
that my birth family was involved, my mom's like, oh, well, there's more people
that love my daughter that care about her well being that like, want to have a
healthy relationship with her. Fantastic. Like she just, my mom always made me feel
like, yeah, and as I was discovering my birth dad, and, and my all my new
siblings I have, my mom just always says, isn't it, isn't it just so great? There's
just more people to love. I don't like, so yeah, my mom had a huge part in
framing my attitude about open adoption and like what people being a part of
your family actually means, you know. My mom's a rock star, absolute rock star.
So yeah. So you did find your birth dad. Yes. Oh my gosh, such a saga. Do you want me to
go into it now or later? I would love to hear it. Okay, so crazy. So when I was, I was
probably 14. Oh, actually let's email it. I'll go back. When I was 12, or right
before I turned 12, my birth mom sent me for, I think it was Christmas because I
have a January birthday. So I think it was either Christmas or my birthday, my
12th birthday. My birth mom sends me an old photograph of one of our ancestors
and on the back is a family tree. And that was my first exposure to, I mean, my
first like cognitive exposure to family history and the very dawning of my
obsession. It was just like, I saw this picture of this woman from Ireland, this
beautiful young woman. She's like 22. She, it's a black and white photo and I think
it was taken in like the 1870s. And on the back it says something like, photo of
of Anna Colgan taken right before she got on the ship to come to America. And she
came all by herself. And then it had this family tree. And at the, you know, at
the very bottom it had Carla's name, like, you know, trickled down, like it
trickled down from like Anna Mary Colgan. And, you know, she's my ancestor from
Ireland and who came to America. And then, you know, it shows everyone else in
between. Then it trickles down to me and like right above me is my birth mom's
name, Carla. And then right next to her name is this other name. She broke down
my birth dad's name. I was like, what? Like in my brain I had never thought of a
birth dad. I don't know what. I just, what? So that kind of blew my mind. And so I
called her. I'm like, will you tell, like, actually you know what? I don't want to
like see the wrong time frame. But I don't think I called her or asked her
about it really. I don't even think I, I wasn't registering it. I don't know.
That's so weird. I'm about to think about it. But she, I called her and I was like,
maybe when I got it or like a couple years later, I'm like, will you tell me
more about, I'll just say David because the name on it was David. And anyway, so I
was like, will you tell me more about David? And so yeah, she told me a little
bit about it. He was a student at University of Washington and you know,
like said something like, we met when we were playing pool or something. And you
know, she just like, she told me what she remembered. And yeah, it's probably, I
think I was about 14 when I asked her the stuff. So I'd had the family tree for
like a couple years. But yeah, so I just started asking her about it. She gave me
some information. But like it was from what I remember, like he, I think he
might have known that she was pregnant, but like said something like, you know, I
can't, I can't do this. I'm, you know, I, I'm a student, dah, dah, dah, dah. Like, I
don't know exactly how the conversation went down, but she just decided like, I'm
taking her this on my own, you know? So I think that, I don't know, he didn't even
know what happened to me. You know, that was kind of, that was like the story that
I was told. And so when I was about like 20s, I'd always like, this is before
Google, like I was like, how can I find this guy? Because she didn't know where
he went. I just had a lot of curiosity. I didn't need a new dad. I had a lot of
curiosity about my birth dad. I just want him to like, okay, I want to know more
about him. Like I really have this love for family history and genealogy that's
just like, I want to know all the things. So finally like Googles invented and I'm
like, or I think it was like Ask Jeeves, if you remember the Ask Jeeves engine. I
was like searching his name and every little detail she told me about him. And I
kept running into roadblocks, but finally in my early, like when I was like 25, I
finally must have searched the right thing and I found him. And I knew I found
him because it was everything she had told me details wise. And it was all in
this like bio about this man in California. He was now in California. So
I'm married at the time now and my husband and I like go and see Mama Mia.
Like I think I was having a bad day. He's like, I know you want to see Mama Mia.
Let's go see Mama Mia. And it was all about this girl finding her birth dad.
Right. I'm like, well, so I finally write this man, David, this letter and I say,
hey, here's about me. Here's a little bit about my story. I love my family.
I don't need a replacement family. I just want to let you know, like, hey, I'm here.
If you ever want to meet, let me know. If you ever want any communication, here's
my parents address. They can always forward it to me wherever I am. So I didn't
hear anything back for like years. I know I always send a Christmas card, like
just like the one you send to everybody on your list. Nothing like personal on it.
And for years, and then finally in like 2015, I just, I saw this Ancestry DNA
commercial and something inside of me just like burst. And it was just like,
you need to do this. And I was like, okay, yeah, I haven't heard from him.
I'll just take the DNA test so I can learn about my ancestors. Maybe if I find
DNA matches, I can just find out about our family history. Right. So I take the
DNA test and I don't know if you know much about genetic genealogy or just like
ancestry DNA or whatever. But when you get your matches, you can, a lot of people
who do it through ancestry, they like family history. So you'll see their
family trees that they have posted. So I started looking through my matches,
family trees, and none of their ancestors had the last name of the man that she
had told me was my birth dad. And I was like, this is really odd. Like, and then
something just didn't feel like it was adding up. And I, so I started like
YouTube, like YouTube video tutorials without like, I don't know, like,
how to find, you know, your birth parent using your DNA matches. And so I was just
like, looking through all these trees, kind of force that name to be correct,
trying to force find, I guess, I'm like, I've got to find that last name. And
isn't someone's family tree and all my matches anyway, my friend who's adopted,
she's like, Dev, you just have to let go of like the stories. Not that they were
lies, but that like, it was a long time ago. And, you know, the story, it might
actually be a different story than you originally told. She's like, you need to
let go of the story, you need to let go of the name David, and you need to let
the DNA do the talking. So long, like long story short, because it took me a
long time to figure out how to do genetic genealogy. I finally learned how
to do it. And I was led to this one, like, I was using my fourth cousin matches, I
was, yeah, fourth cousin matches, really far back, I, I learned all these DNA
hacks. And like, I found the common ancestor of four of my fourth cousin
matches. His man's name is Melvin Simpson from the 1800s. And I researched his
descendants until I, like using all these DNA hacks, landed on this family.
And well, the thing is, when I got my results back, like, if you see me, like, I
am very obviously like a white woman, like I, you know, if in this DNA, do you
get she's a white woman, right? Like Irish, Swedish, like, English, German,
like I had all my DNA came back. And then my DNA also says Native American on it.
And it was like, 4%. And I was like, well, that's not just a smidge. Like, I mean,
to people that don't know about DNA, that's just a spec, but it's actually not
a spec. That means you have a full blood relative who, within the last 200 years.
So it's a big part of your story. So Melvin Simpson had a lot of descendants,
you can imagine, like, you know, it just exponentially gets bigger down the
family tree. So I was like, how am I going to find the right family? I only have
fourth cousin matches on this side. So someone's family tree posted a picture of
a Native American woman. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I started looking into
that. I started emailing the person with that tree. And that person was my match.
And he's like, I'm like, yeah, I think I would share more DNA with you if I
descended from this woman that you posted from. Did that woman have a sister or a
brother? And he's like, yep, she had one sister. So I looked into that woman,
Maude. So Rose was his, where he was from. And then I looked at Maude and Maude's
descendants. And then I started, I contacted someone with a family tree
under Maude and I said, hey, I, here's my story. I was adopted. I was born in
Seattle. The way that we're genetically related looks like it could very likely
be closely related to you. And perhaps one of your close relatives is my birth
dad. And this woman, like, she emailed me back right away. She's like, oh my gosh,
I have the chills. She's like, you know all about my ancestors. And she said,
all three of my brothers were in Seattle in the 1980s. And I was like, three? Is
this Mamma Mia? What? And I was like, no. She's like, let me contact them. And
then they'll like me, like I will, or they will get in touch with you. So like a day
later, two of her three brothers got emailed me. One said, I'd love to help you
with family tree. I like family history as well. Let me know if you have any
questions. Here's what I have. And the other one said, hey, I think we should
talk. Because I sent a picture of myself and my birth mom for her to send to them.
And he's like, hey, I think we should talk. So anyway, long story short, he and I
just had like email conversations for a while. And then he's like, you know, and
he's like, I'd love to help you. I'd love to do a DNA test for you. He's like, I
think there's a strong chance that I'm your birth dad. And so he took the DNA
test. And yeah, 100%. He's my birth father. And his name is not David. His
name is Hans. And so I've been sending a Christmas letter to the wrong person
for years. He never replied, but I did send him a letter to let him know. I'm
hey, I'm really sorry. This is the story that I knew. And you're off the hook
basically in like a nice way. But my real birth dad, Hans, he had not a clue I
existed, not one speck of knowledge. And he's the kind of person he's just so
just be hard to he's like, man, if I had known you'd be you'd be a part of our
you'd have been a part of our lives because you know, he got married and had
five kids. He's like, you would have absolutely been part of our lives. You
would have just had to come right on in. You know what I mean? So guy has
him and his wife started dating like a month after my birth mom and him had met
at a party. So like there was no overlap or anything weird. Like it was just like
he had not never found they had a fun night. And then like, I guess, from what he
said, he wanted to take her out again. But she's like, I'm not really I'm not
really dating right now, you know. And so it's just funny because yeah, she just
she thought it was one guy and it was actually one. Yeah. And so so how long
did it take from when you got your ancestry, my adults to when you got? Okay,
so I did my DNA test in 2015. And I had a huge learning curve of trying to figure
out how to do this. And also I thought it was a different guy. So I was looking I
was looking at the wrong trees literally for him. And then I found Hans and well,
I contacted him the very end of 2016. It was like Thanksgiving. So it took like a
full year. And then we met in March of 2017. So yeah, and it's just been
incredible learning about his family, like trees and like my you know, my
family trees on his side. And that's something I absolutely would love to talk
about too is like after some of your questions, I would love to talk about
like how knowing my how knowing my birth parents family history has affected my
life. I would love to talk about that now. Oh, perfect. I was like, it's a huge
part of I believe my confidence as an adoptee. When I was like four years old,
my dad's business, no, not my dad's secretary invited our family to a Santa
Lucia festival for Christmas, the Swedish Christmas festival or whatever.
And my mom was like, Oh, yeah, like on your on your adoption records, your
birth mom put down that you are part Swedish or Scandinavian, you know, and
just like this is, this is something really special because this is what they
do in Sweden. There's a woman that brings out like lights and her name is
Santa Lucia. And, you know, do you want to do this? And like they need to like
little kids to kind of like be part of the production. And so like my mom was
like, this is part of your this is part of your ancestry. My mom was like, it's
on your file. See, look, it says this. And she's like, it's really I was like,
Oh, my gosh, so special. Wow, this is part of my ancestry. That was probably my
first encounter with like with family history was that Santa Lucia thing when
I was like four, there's a picture of me wearing like a red turtleneck and red
tights and like being so proud of myself with like a tear like I was like a wreath
of candles above my head. I don't know. Anyway, so so as a matter of fact, this,
I mean, I don't know how she I don't know how my birth mom knew because maybe
maybe David had Swedish ancestry, but like little did my birth mom know that
Hans had a ton of Swedish ancestry. So it's kind of like because she had put
that the known birth dad had was Scandinavian ancestry. And it wasn't that
guy, right. But it was Hans and Hans's grandpa was fresh off the boat from
Sweden in 1922. So so it was just kind of like really cool that ended up being
true. So but yeah, like getting that getting that family tree when I was like
12 for my birth mom was amazing. Like, I just thought my aunt my aunt Vicki, my
mom's like sister that her mom had kind of like wasn't even part of like the
blended family of my mom's family, but like another person, my mom's mother,
grandma Jean just brought into the fold. So we call her aunt Vicki. She loves
family history. And she's like, let's learn about this. So she sat down with
me at family history libraries and explained how to search census records
on microphones as before the internet. Like I just I just always loved it. And I
just loved seeing the names and the places and like wondering what their
stories were like. And just, I don't know, it just gave me a lot of like, oh yeah,
like, I love my pioneer ancestors from my family that I know about. And mom was
always really good explaining stuff like that. But it was really neat to see my
birth family's line, my birth mom's line and be like, oh, these guys were like
some tough stock, they went through a lot. And, you know, they were in the Carolinas,
they would they would work whatever cotton mill was hiring. So they would
bounce back and forth between North and South Carolina, depending on which mill
was hiring, because it was just like sporadic, I guess. So I just kind of I
loved learning about it. I loved knowing their names. It just and I loved that
that picture of Anna Mary Colgan is still in my mantle of my ancestor who
came from America all by herself when she was 22. Just because she just knew
that there was a better life out there for her. I just it just gave me so much
confidence. And then learning about my birth dad's family history is just has
just been absolutely fascinating. It's just I don't know, like it. It's like
this puzzle piece that I didn't know was missing got filled in every time I
learned about my ancestors. Like, it's just like, oh, yeah, like this makes so
much sense. And, and then it's crazy, because a few years ago, I saw this study
that had come out in New York City, they had done this. They started to study
before 9-11, like before they knew obviously anything was happening about
what the effect on knowing your ancestors stories had on your life. And
they were studying children ages 10 to 12. And they said they started to study
and then all of a sudden, like 9-11 happened, there's just a massive trauma
that the whole city is going through the whole country, right. And they kept the
study going. And they found like with verifiable evidence that the kids that
knew their family history were much more resilient and much more happy. And like
after going like after going through trauma, they were they were much more
resilient and they were able to be really happy just knowing. Yeah, and it's
a really I have the study. It's I could look it up in a second. But it's just
fascinating because I feel like that really anchored me. It really gave me
like a strong sense of like just like resilience. I've just been like, oh yeah,
like I'm not just this like like alien that just came down and landed on the
space needle. My dad always joked about that actually. It's kind of funny. He's
like, we picked up in Seattle the space needle. They dropped it down. My dad had
like a very colorful, hilarious sense of humor. I'm like, oh dad, you know, he was
and every birthday, my dad would tuck us in and say, let me tell you about the day
you like the day you were born. Or let me to my sisters, let me tell you about the
day that that you came into our family. Like he would he loved telling us that.
And I think those stories really helped us. But yeah, the ancestor thing that
really carried me through like the awkward teen years of just being an
awkward teenager, like whether or not I was adopted or not, like just I really
noticed the difference. Like when I look back, I'm like, oh yeah, like just
knowing my ancestors names, where they came from, that was huge. And then like,
as I've got a newspapers.com, not a plug, but why not? The newspapers.com like
subscription is really fun to read their stories or just if you get if you're
lucky enough and you find like a story on some ancestry site or whatever. But
yeah, I think that's huge. I think knowing your ancestor stories is really big for
an adopted person. Like even just knowing like when I was four, knowing that, oh,
my ancestors might have celebrated this Swedish Christmas custom. I just
made me feel just a little bit special, you know. So I think that's huge, huge for
kids is even knowing like small bits of family history for adoptees is really,
really cool. That's beautiful. And so you say that you work also with helping
people find their ancestors now. Yes, they're definitely their birth
families. Yeah, and I actually, I love helping them find their ancestors too
because a lot of the times it's been like older people that like, you know,
maybe people 50s plus that that never knew their birth parents. And now maybe
their birth parents have passed on. But like, I love finding their birth parents
for them. And if their parents have passed on, I love being able to share,
well, hey, I found this about your ancestors. This is some really cool
stories. And so they they love that. Like, if they can't have that relationship
with their birth parent or like get to know them, they can at least get to know
how the family like came to America or just you know, anything how they
strived through life's trials. So yeah, it's incredible. Yeah. So what advice
would you give to potential birth and adoptive parents
regarding your experience with open adoption and knowing
about your roots? What advice would you give before
these parents are considering it? Yeah, I would say
if it's a yeah, if it's appropriate to do an open adoption,
have that I mean, have boundaries around it. I don't know what the boundaries were
as far as it like what what was in the legal document. But
my parents, I think it was just kind of like, yeah, like, let's exchange like
pictures and like let's do some phone calls throughout the years, you know, and
that just grew into feeling like comfortable and like, yeah, sure, let's
have her go up to see you for a few days in Seattle during the summer.
I would say, yeah, so if it's if it's appropriate for the
like if the birth mother is mentally well enough and mentally mature,
emotionally mature enough, then yeah, like it's it's a great opportunity
if that's the case. And also, man, yeah, like I just think
yeah, it's just a matter of yeah, keep keeping it just really normal.
Like kids should know the word birth mom, like
like they know the word aunt like wow, like I don't know, just like yeah, oh yeah
your birth mom sent this to you. And like as early as they can retain
a word is when they should know the word birth mom. And I'm sure like now that's
general practice. I'm sure most most open adoptions do that.
How I don't know, I just like it was like when I was like in first grade, I
remember like having a picture of my birth mom being like, oh that's so
special, like and just like have a little picture like
my mom wasn't like oh we're gonna hide those, that's not your real mom, you know.
My mom was like oh yeah, Carla sent this for you, here's a picture of where you
can look at, you know. Just keeping it normal, keeping it part of like the
regular dialogue and explaining it to the kids all in a way that they can
understand. And then as they get older and ask questions, just answer the
questions. And then yeah, like I think the fact that Carla wrote down
Scandinavian was her was my birth dad's ancestry, like
you know, just me having that little morsel maybe felt just like a little bit
like connected to something, you know. I think just giving
bits of knowledge like that to kids early on is so helpful.
And when they get, because kids, adoptees get curious, they get very curious.
Every adoptee has like a fantasy of what life might have been like if they
had stayed with their birth family. I got to
visually see that every year, every summer. And
so I didn't have as much of like this fantasy in my head about wow like what
would it have been like if I wasn't adopted. And I think that kids that have
closed adoptions, their fantasy goes wild in their head. Like it can go
anywhere and they can wonder like my life might be better if I wasn't
adopted. But for me, I got to see what my life would have been like and it wasn't
that it was like bad or worse. It was just that I could see it.
I'm like oh, these are good people that love me and I
have a home and a family already that have good people to
love me. And so I don't need it. I don't need to not be
adopted. I am glad I'm adopted. I just think that
that like any little bit of information helps a child so that
they feel secure in the story that they have.
Maybe you think so. So we've talked to a couple of other
adoptees who grew up with open adoptions. And we've heard sometimes it might be a
challenge to grow up with this open adoption and
then take over the relationship where you're managing the relationship with
your bio family. Do you feel like that was really the case or do you feel like
maybe you kind of took some ownership of your relationships with your birth
family when you started going up to Seattle?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, I think that I started
kind of having my own control but just like
ownership. Like oh yeah, I'm like bye guys. I'm going to Seattle. I'll see you
in like a couple weeks because I would go see my birth family and then I'd go
see my mom's sister, my aunt Marty and then the doctor who became my uncle.
So I would kind of do like a Seattle tour and see family.
And yeah, I feel like because I had my own
individual experience with them as a teenager,
we kind of established our own thing and they always knew I was going to
my home in a couple weeks. You know what I mean? So
I feel like it wasn't hard for me to manage
just because of the way that our relationships molded over time as a
teenager. They got to see like yeah, Devaney's like
her own person. Like she's up here like being all independent making her own
choices and I think just maybe it probably has a lot to do with like
the emotional maturity of the parties involved but I feel like
yeah, I feel like it was not hard for me specifically in my story too.
After I was 18, just when I was in college and my grandma was
like, would you like to come for Christmas
sometime? My grandma Fran, I was like oh I'd love to come for Christmas. So I
think I was after my freshman year in college. I did Christmas with my grandma.
You know and that was really special and it was just it was my choice and
it was really fun. That's awesome. And you felt like that was fun.
Like your adoptive family was in school with you. Oh yeah they were like I said my mom was just
like oh that's great. My mom loves her, my
Fran. You know yeah I guess I think my mom was very
confident in her. Like my mom was very confident that
that she was my mom even though she didn't birth me.
She was very confident in her relationship with me.
So yeah I think that she had no problem with that at all.
My mom's goal and she always tells me this. I wish she could meet me mom.
She's like I wanted to raise independent daughters. I didn't want them to be
like grasping at my apron strings on their way
you know to college. Like my mom was she raised very independent girls.
She wanted us to be confident and independent and know how to make our way
in the world. And that's just who she is and I think
it probably has to do with the fact that she lost her mom at 13 and she just
really my mom was the oldest daughter of all of
this family that joined together the Jolly Stones. She took on a lot of
responsibility at 13 and or actually I think she was 14 or 15
when I think she was 14 when the the families joined. But yeah she
just took on a lot of responsibility and she just I think she
she grew up really fast because of that and she just didn't want us to
to be like hindered by like a crutching like um sense of like oh
I can't do this without my family or my mom. Like she just wanted us to be
independent and confident going into the world.
So yeah I love that she does sound amazing.
She's fantastic. Yeah all right so in your experience do you feel like
openness in your options affected any trauma or struggles?
Um I think probably affected in a good way.
If that could go that way yeah I just feel like
um I under because of what I know about my birth
mother and my birth father's family history um
it totally makes sense that like they were in a place where they couldn't
um raise a baby. Actually my birth dad like if he had known about it I think he
would have been like right on it and he would have been like yeah like I'll
help you raise this baby for sure. But like my birth mom was not
she was actually you know she was in a good place because she was
um she had decided I'm gonna I'm gonna go to see she was you know
Griffin Lacey Washington, Olivia area. She's like I'm gonna go out into the
world just like you know because they they have their own everyone has their
own trauma right so she had her own family trauma from her
her family you know like everyone does but she decided she wanted to
just make her way and have this like safe world for herself in Seattle
separate from her family. And um so me knowing her story
um kind of like helps me to have grace with my own like
childhood traumas. When I was nine my parents got divorced actually.
Um my you know my parents adopted me they got divorced when I was nine.
Um and that was obviously very very difficult like it never crossed my mind
well well they're divorced so I shouldn't
have ever been adopted that never crossed my mind at all.
Like I mean because I think people have asked me like oh my gosh that's so weird
that you were adopted but that your parents got divorced isn't that kind of
defeat the whole point? And I'm like no like it's called having a strong mom who
can take on anything she needs to take on. That was my mom.
You know so um anyway so it's like yeah I feel like knowing my birth parents
story and knowing what they went through and especially what my ancestors went
through. I mean my birth dad's grandmother um isn't as fierce grew up on
reservation you know and and so like I know all that story now. I'm like whoa
like what they went through is insane you know. And like my my birth dad was
raised for quite a long time by his grandma who's Nez Pierce and so
it's kind of cool like he has this like strength and resilience from her and
what you know what she what she and her ancestors our ancestors went through and
like it trickles down. I hope I'm answering the question
correctly. It was just how like how being having an open adoption has
affected like any trauma. Yeah so yeah I just think that like I know
especially like knowing my birth mom's um like
family trials and traumas of her childhood
that really like helps me with perspective. I'm like oh wow
I've got it I've got it good. I've got it real good and you know my
my birth mom's dad's ancestors they were all part of like the Oklahoma dust bowl.
They were just like there's a picture of that. I don't know how there's even a
picture because they were so dirt poor. There's a picture of them in front of a
tent like with there's like a dirt stir
everywhere and I was like oh were they camping and and my grandma's like oh no
they were dirt poor they lived in a tent like this is like they had to leave
Oklahoma they went to Texas. I'm like whoa like so that was a massive poverty
and later massive like alcoholism from that
poverty that trickled down through the generations
um and you know affected a lot of people but just like just knowing that story
helps me just like have so much compassion and understanding for
how events like why events happened in her life
and you know it just it kind of yeah the openness of it gave me
perspective on my trials. I'm like oh I can get through some
really hard stuff because they all went through some really hard stuff.
This just is how it is and it's how we it's how we
what choices we make through the trials that that affect our outcomes.
Yeah. So I'd say it had a big effect on the knowledge of being open adoption
really helped me know that. Well that helped you know your strength.
Yeah yeah exactly. All right so just looking at the entire
adoption community what do you think some of maybe the biggest challenges are
and do you have any thoughts on actions you could do to help?
Okay um let's see here so the challenges I think right now there are so many
people that want to adopt them. I think I think it's
really hard to find um like birth mothers who want to
place their babies. I mean that's I mean I don't know a lot about it
right now um except for my husband and I we dealt with
infertility and so we were starting to look into adoption
and I had two leaves and both fell through
and I was so heartbroken um and um then we had this like miracle
fertility story but yeah like I just remember how um I
was really overwhelmed by the legal process of like
I'm like yo my husband was like on board let's adopt so like we were like okay
let's start to like figure out how we do this
and so but then I guess as we were starting that I had two people come out
of the woodwork and be like hey my best friend she is having a baby
um she isn't ready to be a mom she would love to play with someone who
understands adoption she knows her story da da da da would you be interested
in like absolutely we would be and meanwhile we're doing fertility
treatments because we were in the middle of that
and then um I'm like yeah here's my information da da da da and then like
the birth mom I think she ended up keeping the baby
which I know is which is fantastic if that's her choice and so that didn't go
anywhere and then the other one was my sister's
co-worker same thing like you know didn't mean to get pregnant
but wanted to place the baby and so I was like oh that's so yeah
I'd love to love to talk to you about it and then so we were kind of starting
to talk to my sister and she was kind of relaying some information
and then we found out we were pregnant um but I just know from that tiny little
like putting our toe in the water of like
just beginning to look into adoption I know it can be so overwhelming like
you know you're going to be doing all this legal stuff and it's like
you've got this huge just like chasm of okay
we want a baby and there's the opportunity for a baby but there's this
giant grand canyon in front of us and I think that's maybe
from my tiny experience with that is like wow like it seems like it would be
so overwhelming to try and begin the process and
and to go through the whole process um and I feel like yeah I mean I don't
really know now that like the the agency that I knew the most about
LDS Family Services they don't do those adoptions anymore
I know it's just hard for people to get connected with their babies I think
that's the that's the chasm that I know about but as far as
um I would hope that birth moms and birth parents would know like
um like yeah um it's wonderful like I'm so grateful I'm adopted I'm so
grateful my birth mom when I was engaged and I was living in Seattle
actually I did my internship in Seattle and um after I graduated I moved back
there for uh because I loved my friends I made during my internship um I
was I got engaged and my soon-to-be husband was in Idaho still
doing school but she just told me one day at lunch she's like
she's like she's like I am so grateful I made that choice
it's the best decision I ever made like she just loved seeing this future laid
out for me and she just said I I feel like placing you with your family was
the best choice I ever made and I'm like whoa like I'm so
grateful she feels so good about it I'm so grateful that she has so much peace
about it and just like made me feel like a million
bucks like that like the way my life has gone not like
oh she has this money or did it there it just she's just so grateful that
she sees that her choice that she made led to so many wonderful outcomes and
opportunities for me you know because she can't affect what
choices I make but she could she was the person who affected the
opportunities that came my way um so I would say like from
my birth mom's own mouth like placing me with my family
you know be particular with who you place with
she felt really good about my family so be particular with
the family you place with and trust your choice because
you're giving your you're giving your child a lifetime of opportunity
obviously you can't you can't make that that kid can't you can't force them to
make certain choices but you gave them all those opportunities that are going
to be in on their path well one thing that was um
every once in a while kind of affected me just a little bit was
having like a cousin say well you're not our real cousin because you're adopted
like that always really bugged me but they believe me they would get like a
very firm talking to later because it you know I told you about
that jolly stone family that my mom came from this blended family
we were all cousins to each other and half of the people weren't actually
related to each other because it was a step family that had joined and
so like when one of those cousins from that
that family that blended family would say to me well
well you're not you know you're not really our cousin because you're adopted
I'm like well you're not really cousins with tyler because you guys are
steps like our parents are step siblings it
doesn't matter like it's just kind of funny like just
I'm like you guys are ridiculous and so I always felt like they're my cousins
because of the relationships we had and the memories and experiences we had
but yeah there there are two cousins in particular who I still love
but I had to explain to them adoption doesn't mean that we're not cousins it
just means that's the way we became cousins you know what I mean so I just
say like but kids kids just have to learn that
like because they're they're just like they're just growing up in this world
they're just learning like oh yeah there we need kids need to know like
there is a thing called adoption and the genetics are a thing so it's okay that
it's okay that we're not love related but like don't make that
don't make that a deal like a big deal with kids I don't know
but like I'm like most of my experiences and even with those specific cousins
have been fantastic it's just a little random thing like that's not
my defining like my defining experience that's made
our relationship with them but it is a funny little thing that
I remember being a kid and being like that's messed up like don't talk to me
like that like I'm your cousin so get used to it
like um so uh yeah but like I think it's just the main over
like arching theme that I've just always felt and
especially my mom's expanded yeah love is not territorial the more people love
the better the more people you love and care about
the better the more people that love you and care about you the better
um you can't have enough people to love you know and I think that was
a huge a huge part of our our story yeah I think that's all I've got to say
for now but this has been so amazing and so fun like I said I could talk
for a year about this incredible thank you so very much
it was so valuable yeah
thanks so much to Devonee for her willingness to share her story
and to help us learn from her experience yes I loved talking to Devonee I loved
her focus on genealogy and family history I loved how comfortable and
confident she was and relating to and identifying with both
her adoptive family and her biological family
and how she really felt like a part of both I just
loved how there was so much trust between all of the parties
and her adoption where both of her families trusted each other she was
doing summertime visits with biological family
and I just thought that was so neat such a cool story
and such a great example of how we can have trust and openness and
in this situation I loved seeing how it helped
this individual grow up with so much confidence in
who she is yeah I really man there are so many things that she shared that I
just really really enjoyed listening to
I love her persistence and when seeking for her birth father going
through ancestry DNA and finding you know fourth
cousins and kind of doing some detective work
I know that takes a lot of work and to lead to the right situation and the
right place like a lot has to come together to
make that happen and it's awesome that she does that to help other people as
well and we've I mean on the podcast we've
talked to a lot of people that have been searching for family or have found
family and and several of them have done so
through DNA so I'm glad that she shared that experience
and I really loved how she just talked about
developing resilience by understanding your heritage and knowing
the difficulties that you know generations and generations ago have
gone through and because they were able to
overcome and prevail we can gain strength from that and so
I just gained this new perspective of understanding the adoptees
perspective and in knowing some of their family history or genealogical history
and the strength that can come from knowing stories and accounts from those
in your family tree yeah yeah understanding
those who come before you and how that can help you
better know yourself and your present yeah I think that's really
beautiful I really have enjoyed these last couple of
episodes our discussion with Sarah last week and our discussion
I guess it was two weeks ago and our discussion with Devaney
and this episode I just felt so enriched and so
informed in getting some more perspectives from these adults who grew
up as adoptees right with these experiences
with open adoption and I just feel like it was really eye-opening for me
and really encouraging to persist and keep working on these open adoption
relationships that it's worth it and yeah just a
really beautiful experience for me I hope that these episodes have been
enriching for you too yeah I think we're maybe one last thought
that I'll share before we wrap up she shared a little bit about her mom
and how she has helped to support the the relationships
that she had with others and for me as an adoptive father with four kids
who have open relationships with their biological families it just helps me be
even more committed recommitted to making sure that
I'm doing everything I can to provide the connection that they need with their
birth families so again thank you so much to Devaney
and for sharing your story with us and being with us
we will be back in your feed in two weeks and
until then thanks so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption
project