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Welcome to the open adoption project. This is episode 113

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I'm Shaun and in this episode

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Lanette has an interview with Devaney and Devaney is an adoptee who shared her story with us back in episode 72 and

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together

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They will have a discussion of a book club discussion about the book far from the tree by

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Robin Benway and

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If you haven't read the book, this is probably a good time for you to

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Pause and go read it or if you don't care about spoilers keep listening

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But far from the tree like I mentioned from Robin Benway is a young adult novel that explores the theme of family identity

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adoption and belonging

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The story this particular story centers on three teenagers

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that were that are siblings who were separated at birth and that were adopted by different families and although

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They've grown up in different environments

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they only learned about each other's existence in their teenage years and

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Their shared background and their connection to one another gradually

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Draws them together. It's a good read and I love to listen to this conversation with Lynette and Devaney

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I love amplifying adoptive voices and hearing from her perspective was

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Really great. So we hope that you enjoy this conversation with Lynette and Devaney again about the book far from the tree and

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We'll cut to that conversation right now

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We are here on the podcast with Devaney Devaney welcome back we're so happy to have you here again

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Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I love books. So I'm so excited

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Thank you. Yeah, we're really excited to be talking about a few different books for National Adoption Month

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Just having some little book club sessions. And so today we're gonna be talking about a book called far from the tree

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And Devaney recommended this book you had heard about it. Yeah

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Yeah, I had just been looking at books about adoption and this one

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I had two friends that previously read it and they had their

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Like ratings and their own personal reviews of it on Goodreads and I trust those friends opinions and I was like, ooh if they like it

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I'm sure it's good and being about adoption. I thought was really interesting. I just you know, yeah looked interesting

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Yeah, well, I loved reading this book. They really did me too. So I'm excited to talk about it today

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so

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Start off. Um

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How would you summarize this book to someone who doesn't care about spoilers, but just wants to hear a couple sentences about it? Okay, cool

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Yeah, I think

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this book gives you a really wide view of different adoption experiences and it gives you

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lots of different voices about every

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part of the adoption story people from every part of the adoption story words like the adoptee the parents the birth parents

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parents

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If there's social worker workers involved just so many different angles and views that I feel like some books

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They just kind of hyper focus on one person's experience where I loved this one because it gives you

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So many different angles and views I loved that too

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And so there's three perspectives in the book and these three perspectives

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They're all siblings, but they have such different experiences, which I thought was really well done

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Mm-hmm. So the author of this book was not adopted right? He said that you learned a bit about this

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Yeah, I looked into her and yeah, she just I guess she came up with the idea in a parking lot

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I did you hear about that? No, so she was I guess her publisher was like, hey

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Can you give me some idea of what you're gonna be writing next? So she's like, I'm so sorry

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I'm just really kind of blank right now and

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So but then she was grocery shopping and then she was in the parking lot and I think maybe getting out of like

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Pulling out of her parking spot and a song from Florence and the Machine can and she says the lyrics hit her so hard

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And it's from that song. I wrote down cosmic love by Florence and machine

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And the first line is a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes

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I don't know how that would make you think of adoption

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but I was like, I think she was probably supposed to write this book because but now like when I read that like, oh, yeah, like that could totally be like a birth mom's

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Experience or like an adopted parents experience like a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes

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I just feel like so she she said like the story came to her right there in the car from those lyrics

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And she said she'd heard the lyrics like tons of times before because she loves that song and loves that artist

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But I just thought it was so interesting that it just the story came flooding to her and she felt like she couldn't write it fast enough

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That's amazing. That's really beautiful. Yeah, and she wasn't connected to the adoption community

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But you can tell she put research into yeah, totally. Yeah, I also I heard that

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I heard that she just had like so many books about adoption on her kitchen table that one whenever her friends came over

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I guess a neighbor came over they're like, oh, congratulations. Are you adopting and she's like no, I'm running a book

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Love that she had so many so many yeah

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Books out doing so much research. But yeah, she said that there she said that like no story that she read was the same

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And that's what fascinated her about writing about this. I love that. Yeah. Well, and the book starts off really strong

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I got hooked pretty fast. It starts off introducing a character named Grace. Mm-hmm. And within we've already

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Told on the podcast. We're gonna have spoilers, of course. Yes, so I recommend reading the book before you listen

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Yes, but it jumps in and talks about grace and we find out that she was adopted

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And she becomes a birth mom a teen mother and that places her baby for adoption in the first chapter

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Yeah, but which it's a big yelling right away

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And I think actually I think it starts with I mean

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I've read the summary on the back knowing that there was gonna be like a few different adoption stories in it

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And the first thing that you kind of find out is that she's pregnant

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She's a teenager and I was like, okay and then it closes with a chapter be like and I want to have a birth mom

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I'm like, oh, so you're also like adopted and I didn't realize she was gonna be a character. So I was like, oh, that's like

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It was a big surprise. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I don't know how much of my experience you want to mean to go into

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I mean, I'm adopted open adoptions and sounds baby and I have all my sisters

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Are adopted and they all have different adoption stories different layers and levels of openness and closeness

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And so I do have a sister that she was adopted and like, you know into our family and she also

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Had like a pregnancy as a teenager and she also placed her baby

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So I thought that was really interesting to be for me to be able to like kind of step into

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So personal again, because I was a child when it happens and my sister was a teenager in her late teens

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And so it was really neat to be able to kind of step into

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You know, maybe not her exact experience but just like okay like put myself in that place

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I thought that was really powerful the way that the author

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Did that you really felt like so much compassion and love and like you can kind of feel what grace was was going through

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She did a great job writing that chapter

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Yeah, so did you feel based on your sister's experience and seeing that like the complexities of grace and love

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Like the complexities of grace's situation felt realistic

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Yeah, I feel like it was very realistic

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It must bring up so many feelings of like, you know, you grow up maybe you might

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I'm not saying my sister but you might grow up as an adoptee

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I never felt this way but you might grow up being like how why would someone do this to me?

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Like why was I given up? Why was I given away? Why was it discarded?

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You know, like they might have that quote discarded right like people have

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Some really heavy feelings about that

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Um, I had a different experience but I do know adoptees who feel that way and so it was really neat to see grace

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You know that she loves this baby. You know that she is like having such a hard time

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um

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Doing this placement, but she feels like it's the best thing for her baby

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So it's kind of neat. I feel like the author did do a great job of showing that

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Yeah

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Yeah, and so then after we meet grace we meet her two siblings who were also adopted by different

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Yes stuff. Yeah. Yes

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So the parenting between grace and her sister maya and her brother quakin

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And their adoptive families was really different. I want to talk about that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So

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Honestly, it's like so good. First of all

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I think I told you this like in a text not like maya the sister maya drives me absolutely bonkers

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But by the end of the book, she really does she's endearing

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Yes, and you see that some of her behaviors behaviors are because of the way that she has like

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internalized her adoption story and not just her adoption story

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But like just how she always felt kind of like the out like the outlier because she's a brunette

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Maya is a brunette

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And she's raised by right like these redheaded these two parents that are redheads

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They were adopted by her parents that are redheads and then she has a redhead sister that was born shortly after she was

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Placed into her home and maya just drove me absolutely nuts

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um

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Just because I feel like she always had a chip on her shoulder

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and um, I mean I don't I just

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Like I said, i'm coming from my experience of feeling so blessed from my adoption and my open adoption. I love my birth mom

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Um that like i'm like gosh. Yeah, you have it so hard maya. Don't you you have parents who love you?

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What's the song hard?

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You're a little bit and like um, anyway, I thought it was interesting that like she felt like an outsider because of

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Her lack of red hair, but then you have Joaquin that is like he goes through this experience of being like

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a mexican-american

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like

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Or a latino american kid

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um, and the way he was treated for his like obvious difference from a lot of

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you know

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His like foster families whereas maya just had this big chip on her shoulder because she didn't have red hair. I'm like

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I'm like, I'm pretty sure Joaquin had it harder than you because like you know what I mean?

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Like people just assumed that he spoke spanish people just assumed that he could talk about

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Like his like his Spanish traditions. Anyway, I just thought it was funny

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But then it just makes you appreciate people good people process their experiences differently

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But sorry you were talking you wanted to talk about the parenting experience. No, that's a good tangent. Yeah, so

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Maya's parents, um, they're going through some really hard stuff personally. Yeah, um

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Um, and it's okay to talk about spoilers. Yeah, just read just read the book guys pause it and read the book and then come back

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If you don't anyway, so, um maya's parents have had like a really rocky relationship for quite a long time

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It seems like right like years like yeah their their relationship between the two of them. Yeah

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Not my parents. Yeah

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Like they they couldn't they couldn't conceive a child and so they adopted

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And then they ended up pregnant which I know is common

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Um, and so Maya kind of always felt like well, you know, they only adopted me because they couldn't have one and then anyway, so

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Um, but her parents have a really rocky relationship and you discover that her mom is suffering from alcoholism

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And it's drawn this huge wedge between the parents where I feel like the dad isolates a lot

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Yeah, right. I mean what else did you see? Yeah, it's a dark family situation

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But it felt like they were also good sides, right? I really liked how

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Realistic all these families feel because they're not perfect, but they also have strengths

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Yeah, like it felt like Maya's parents were a lot more accepting. They were open to having conversations. Yes, and

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It was comfortable right like Maya came out to her parents

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And yeah, I put a sticker on his car and like, you know, they were supportive of her

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and I think that's a great way to explain how the author really did like weave that beautifully like

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Um, yes, her parents really struggle and their toxic relationship with each other affected the kids

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But they were they showed up for their kids Maya and their daughter their other daughter Lauren in so many ways

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Like you were saying like Maya Maya is gay and she has a girlfriend but her parents, um

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Wholeheartedly accept her so you see like those characters they have this flaw of having this toxic relationship with themselves

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But they try really hard to be there for their kids and I thought that was a really neat way because

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You know, it's not just black and white with all these parents are you know

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Bad guys, sorry, you know, like they're just like, oh they're mine. Yeah, very realistic

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Yeah, and I thought that was really interesting too because um after grace placed her baby

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With this really lovely couple that she really was so intentional about just really wanting to find a fantastic

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Loving couple for for who she called her. She calls her baby peach. Yes. I loved that

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I was sweet. She calls her baby peach because when she finds out she's pregnant it was the size of a peach apparently

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And she just kind of clung onto that but

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Um, it's interesting because you get to see how grace is so intentional about selecting a family for peach

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And then Maya you see you just know that everyone wants their baby to have the best family placement

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And then you see this family as Maya and Lauren are like teens this family's falling apart

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And you know a birth mom could look at that and be like I made the wrong choice

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But at the same time there's so many good things that Maya has in her life

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And I mean, I think I remember the book that like Maya was very like her family was very affluent too. Like she had a lot of like

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Just wonderful opportunities and like a beautiful house, you know

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So I just was interesting contrast. I like that

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I like that the author made it well rounded in like just the

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The humanness of every character like yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well in the beginning it felt like grace's parents were like these kind of perfect parents, right? Yeah

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Um

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They were really loving and supportive but they also had a hard time grace said that she felt like she couldn't ask her mom questions

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And like there was this barrier between communication there. And so of course they all had struggles

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Yeah, and then Joaquin's foster parents mark and linda were so sweet and lovely. Yeah, but

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They recognized I loved that they recognized and talked about we can't give you everything and we want to help you get everything you need, right?

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Like I think we can't teach you how to make tamales. Yeah, the things. Yeah, that's one of the things we talked about

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Yeah, yeah, I thought it was speaking of parents like okay

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So when grace finds out that she is gonna have a baby and she's pregnant her boyfriend at the time max

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Is just kind of like this like uber privileged like rich kid and his parents are like

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Uber privileged like rich kid and his parents are so upset

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That grace is pregnant his dad was awful and max's mom was just kind of like a little like

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Wuthering willow like wouldn't speak up and like say hey ease up like to max's dad max's dad was cruel and he just

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Branded grace as being like a bad girl and how max is dating a good girl now

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And that was infuriating to hear all this blame being placed on grace for this

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You know tricky

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Situation with okay. What do we do with this baby because I feel like if max's parents had been more supportive and kind and understanding

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You know, maybe grace would have made a different choice

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You know, but I mean I I feel like grace did a wonderful thing like as an adopting myself

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I'm so grateful that I have my family

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But yeah, it just it almost kind of like makes you feel like maybe grace would have kept her baby if it wasn't for max's dad's reaction

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her baby if it wasn't for max's dad's reaction max's reaction and just

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her baby if it wasn't for max's dad's reaction max's reaction and just

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So yeah the way that the way that these parents are represented like it you it gives you the really good view of like maybe these kids are

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You know, maybe of course the kids are influenced influenced by the parents parenting style and their reactions to hard trials. It's like

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What like for instance when my mom?

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When my mom found out that my sister was pregnant. I wasn't there when she found out but I saw the way my mom reacted in the

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days weeks months up and I just was like wow, like my mom is so loving and understanding and full of just like

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Um, just has grace and compassion. Yeah, I just feel like I'm it's it really matters like how you react to your kids trials

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Really like the reaction is really what matters

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What matters?

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I love that. That's

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Great thing to see

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Um, how do you think grace's situation with getting pregnant helped her relate to her own birth mom in ways that her siblings couldn't?

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Yeah, they talked about that

208
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So when Joaquin and Maya and grace finally meet I think one of them or like I think yeah grace says

209
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You know, are you guys interested in meeting our birth mom?

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We're finding her and Maya and Joaquin are like immediately like no way. She didn't want us. She gave us away

211
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Joaquin had a really like i'm looking forward to talking about Joaquin's experience Joaquin had a really like treacherous like

212
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uh experience through foster homes in and out of foster homes and um

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So I feel like they were they were immediately like there's no way but because grace has this extra layer of well now

214
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I'm a birth mom now I can relate and understand

215
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This isn't just a cut and dry situation. This is like

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very

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very affecting every single day she thinks about peach and

218
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um

219
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It's just like this this laurence and the machine sawing a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes

220
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And I just think about

221
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You know grace like she her whole heart she had to have her whole heart

222
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like willing to place peach and then

223
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You know because she had that experience now. She understands that it was out of love that her birth mom

224
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Placed her. Yeah

225
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so I thought that was

226
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Yeah, very interesting and just like how they because she was not because she was a birth mom herself now

227
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She could have compassion for her birth mom

228
00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:11,540
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like a lot of the adoptees i've talked to

229
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When they have that closed adoption

230
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when they ultimately

231
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Reunite and meet their birth mom as parents themselves it just changes or like when they become parents

232
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They are more inclined to go and find their birth mom and it changes

233
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that perception if

234
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Maybe it wasn't such a positive perception before it shifts

235
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When parents I think that's such a huge thing to point out too with um two of my siblings

236
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uh when each of them had um

237
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like when my one when one of my siblings had

238
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Her so her first child she placed for adoption and her second child when she had her second child. She was ready to

239
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Um look for and meet her birth mom and that's when she was able to do that

240
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Yeah

241
00:18:56,980 --> 00:19:01,460
and I think it's the parenthood is a really big step for adoptees to decide because I feel like

242
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:07,460
Oh, and it's interesting too because I don't believe and I I hope I don't mess this up

243
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:10,660
I don't believe she attempted to try and find her birth mom until she

244
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Had her second child her first child. She didn't raise. She placed her first child

245
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Uh, and maybe just her heart wasn't ready because I was so hard so heavy, but her second she

246
00:19:19,620 --> 00:19:26,660
It was like it was like right on the heels of one of my um nieces being born that she chose and then and same for my other sister

247
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When my other sister had her first child is when she sought out

248
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um

249
00:19:32,260 --> 00:19:36,260
The records and to open everything up and so I think that's a really important stuff is like

250
00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:38,980
I think parenthood brings up a lot of

251
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things for adoptees and wanting to

252
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Wanting to seek out answers because you are more mature. You do have a higher understanding

253
00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:48,980
When you are a parent yourself

254
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:56,660
So interesting. Yeah, and then Joaquin's story was really interesting because he was in the foster care system. Yeah throughout his childhood

255
00:19:57,620 --> 00:20:04,660
How did his experience impact your perceptions of children and care or yeah these relationships?

256
00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:08,980
Yeah, I think that like, you know, first of all, it breaks your heart because um,

257
00:20:08,980 --> 00:20:11,780
I believe he was placed for adoption

258
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:14,660
What I believe his birth mom

259
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:19,460
Her name is what is it? Melissa Taylor? Yeah, um his birth mom

260
00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:26,100
I believe kept him for wasn't she wasn't Joaquin with her when she was pregnant with grace

261
00:20:26,420 --> 00:20:29,620
I believe there's like a picture of him on her hip. Yeah

262
00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:33,460
Yeah, she parented for a while. Yeah for like about a year and then I think something

263
00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:38,580
She the mom I think she struggled you find out later that she was struggling with some really like

264
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:44,660
Bad relationships and and just like not being able to take care of herself and jumping from job to job

265
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so

266
00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:53,220
Yeah, so Joaquin was this like beautiful baby boy for I think a year or a year or more with his

267
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His birth mom and then he was placed into foster care

268
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And then when you also find out early in the book that grace's parents were both

269
00:21:00,260 --> 00:21:03,060
Hey, the baby actually has a big brother

270
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Do you want to also adopt him? They weren't able I read that. Yeah, they said that they didn't feel like they could

271
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Um, you know, because it was their first time being a parent and they felt maybe like, okay. Well, we're ready for a baby, but we don't know

272
00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:19,860
So I don't blame grace's parents for not adopting him

273
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:23,060
But the more you read about Joaquin so you're like they should have adopted him

274
00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:25,460
You know, you never know they didn't know

275
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What was his name?

276
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:31,940
You know, you never know they didn't know what was going on and what would happen to Joaquin

277
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:32,260
But yeah

278
00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:38,580
He just bounced from from home to home and because and they do bring this up intentionally in the book and like the characters talk

279
00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:44,020
about it Joaquin's like I'm brown like, you know, he says I I'm brown and like

280
00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:49,700
Boys and like boys of color don't get adopted as readily

281
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:53,860
I mean, it's like exponentially less than kids. So so hard like

282
00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:56,420
Brown as he says, you know, so

283
00:21:56,420 --> 00:21:58,420
um, and I guess that's um

284
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:02,660
One of the things that author talked about and something that I listened to because I just like love after I read it

285
00:22:02,660 --> 00:22:08,260
But to just dive in and be like, okay, tell me all about this process. She said that like she literally typed in

286
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,860
Adoption into google and the first thing that came up was like an npr article or story about

287
00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:18,580
the like shocking contrast of like how many

288
00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:22,660
I think it was like I think it was like latin american or

289
00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:29,860
um, like boy like young boys of color that don't get adopted because because of their color and like

290
00:22:30,580 --> 00:22:36,260
How exponentially more expensive it is for kids that are white to be like adopted?

291
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:41,860
She she just thought I have to put this in the book because these numbers are so shocking

292
00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:45,700
That she wanted people to understand there is a problem here

293
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:50,820
You know, and so walkie, I think she she really wanted Joaquin's experience to reflect that like

294
00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:52,340
disparity

295
00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:54,340
That a lot of kids face

296
00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:59,140
Um as they're as they're growing up and trying to find a home and race and not a foster care

297
00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:02,100
So it was so sweet. It was heartbreaking. Yeah

298
00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:06,260
Yeah, yeah, it's a sweet kid and he just had a lot of really hard stuff

299
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:10,820
Yeah throughout his life. He was adopted and then placed back into care, right?

300
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:17,060
And because he because of like an anger management issue, but he would because it was bringing up so

301
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:21,540
Some I forget what oh I did the family that he was adopted into the first time the big cannons

302
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:27,140
I think it was after their baby was born that he like he said I didn't know why

303
00:23:27,140 --> 00:23:32,820
And then we found out later why he goes by but it was it brought up a lot of like anger and he loved the baby

304
00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:38,020
There was like very true. Yeah, there's very true. I was popping up and he didn't understand it because he was like what was he like 12?

305
00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:42,580
Or he was like little maybe I thought it was like nine or 10. Yeah, he was young. Yeah

306
00:23:42,580 --> 00:23:49,940
Yeah, and he couldn't he's like I couldn't I didn't understand the time but it was after the baby was born

307
00:23:49,940 --> 00:23:54,100
I got really angry and like really sad and really mad and you know

308
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,700
he knows now is because

309
00:23:55,700 --> 00:24:01,780
It was like his experience as a baby and like looking at that baby and understanding like how could someone give away a baby?

310
00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:06,120
How did someone abandon a baby? Oh because his birth mom was supposed to meet him for a visitation

311
00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:09,140
And she never showed up and he did

312
00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:12,820
I think he remembered waiting for her when he was like a toddler and she never showed up

313
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:16,980
Yeah, and he was wearing his favorite shirt like it was a spider-man shirt. That's right

314
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:19,860
Yeah, he was wearing his favorite shirt because he knew he was gonna see his birth mom

315
00:24:20,260 --> 00:24:22,580
You know his walk to was his mom because he wasn't adopted yet

316
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:24,500
um, and

317
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,500
She just didn't show up. And so

318
00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:29,860
I think that just when that baby was born in his new family

319
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:37,780
I think it triggered him really bad and he started behavioral problems and then he his dad was trying to like

320
00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:42,180
walk he was like throwing things like just and so his dad came in and

321
00:24:42,660 --> 00:24:48,820
Tried to like hold him down to stop like walking grabbed a stapler and threw it across the room and it hit the baby

322
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:52,820
Yeah, it hit the baby in the head and the baby passed out. Maybe the baby was fine

323
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,340
But what he never forgave himself? He felt so

324
00:24:56,980 --> 00:25:02,020
Yeah, and he was taken away like he that family like I don't know the term for this

325
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:06,500
Unadopted him. Yeah, they placed him back into care. Yeah, they relinquished him

326
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:12,980
Back into care. Yeah, which happens more than a shit. We've got a few adoptees on our show

327
00:25:13,220 --> 00:25:20,020
Yeah, my my sister was too. Yeah, so my when we I mean I was so young. I don't remember my life without her

328
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:22,500
but one of my sisters, um

329
00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:27,460
she was 12 when she was like what would you say it really good is that what they say like

330
00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:29,780
and um

331
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:33,700
She's been adopted before yeah, she was a newborn for like a day old baby and wow

332
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:38,900
When she was 12. Yeah, so that I can't even imagine. I can't get into that like mentally like

333
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:41,460
I have so much like

334
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:45,540
Like compassion for where she's been and I have no clue how that would I could even handle that

335
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:50,180
So so reading Joaquin's story really again put me in one of my sisters

336
00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:54,900
She has and I was like, wow gosh, this really is an experience that people have and like the soul crushing

337
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:57,620
Just like the heartbreaking

338
00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:00,100
This pain that you would

339
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:06,740
Have to process from from having a your family. Yeah, like well, and he really struggled with his self-worth

340
00:26:06,820 --> 00:26:10,100
Yeah throughout the book. Yeah, I feel like he began to

341
00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:14,180
Get better at accepting himself and seeing his value

342
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:20,020
Like it was a struggle like he didn't believe his sisters would really want a relationship would like keep coming back

343
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:25,140
Yes, like after he met them. Yeah, this is kind of like he kind of had his hands like out at a distance

344
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:28,100
Yeah, he's like being careful. Yeah, he's guarding himself which makes so much sense

345
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,380
So absolutely because I love how the author like the story unfolds

346
00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:35,780
You don't get all the information at the beginning but the author really helped you like peel back

347
00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:40,820
Why each character was the way they were and like I said by the end of the book, I didn't mind Maya. Yeah

348
00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:43,940
Yeah, she just has a hard personality. You know what I mean? Like

349
00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:50,260
That's it. She was just just she's just like had a really like funny personality or i'm just like, uh, Maya

350
00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:55,300
Stop being so prickly about everything. She was at the age where she was so prickly. Yeah, exactly

351
00:26:55,300 --> 00:27:00,900
A little yeah, she's just a little prickly about everything and it's just I don't think it had anything to do with her adoption

352
00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:02,900
I think her personality was just prickly. Yeah

353
00:27:03,860 --> 00:27:05,700
her tendency so

354
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:07,700
Uh, anyway, so yeah. Um

355
00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:11,460
Yeah, Joaquin, uh, I just like it's pretty amazing to see

356
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,320
Joaquin's foster parents

357
00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:19,860
Mark and Linda how they were relentless about wanting to show him

358
00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:24,740
And they loved him and wanted him to be part of their family and it's really neat to see him go through

359
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:32,180
like learning to accept that he is of worth and love and loved um,

360
00:27:32,660 --> 00:27:38,900
And then like he is they ask him like would you like us to we would like to adopt you

361
00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:43,540
Will you be our child and like he has to work he works through that takes time

362
00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:46,580
Yeah, and it really does and I think it was really good the way that she

363
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:51,700
Portrayed him having to struggle through that because he's like this can't be real like he's 17. He's 17

364
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:58,740
Yeah, it's like almost an adult but this these these parents are relentless in their pursuit of just like

365
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:03,540
We love you and like we're gonna be so patient with you and they had I thought it was pretty cool

366
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:09,380
They like had a therapist that they worked with and they asked Joaquin if he wanted to go to and

367
00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:14,260
It was great that he went. I mean it shows a lot about Joaquin's like inner character that he just like

368
00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:17,700
Yeah, I think at the beginning he was like, oh, I don't want to be the therapist

369
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,500
But I actually really like her so i'm gonna keep talking. Yeah

370
00:28:21,060 --> 00:28:24,420
That's pretty cool. Yeah Joaquin's growth was incredible. It really was

371
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:30,260
Yeah, I think I think his character had the most growth. Yes, like for us as readers to like see in the book

372
00:28:31,060 --> 00:28:33,060
That's probably the way that the author wrote it

373
00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:35,540
Absolutely

374
00:28:35,540 --> 00:28:41,780
Yeah, so Maya was the only sibling who had a sibling growing up right like Lauren was her sister, right?

375
00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:47,940
The other the redhead child. Yes. Yeah, and like they talked about how the how like she would um

376
00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:52,020
She would walk up her stairs. Maya would walk up the stairs and all the family photos were out

377
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:55,780
It was these three redheads and her like i'm just like she's like surrounded by

378
00:28:56,500 --> 00:29:01,460
Yeah, yeah, and I loved I loved how they portrayed her little sister Lauren

379
00:29:01,460 --> 00:29:06,660
I love that like Lauren was like i'm your family quit trying to like find new family

380
00:29:06,660 --> 00:29:11,780
Obviously everyone wants like not everybody like it's of course she wants to find her her her birth family

381
00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:14,580
But or she's curious about her new siblings

382
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:19,060
So but I like how Lauren was like just adding it like you can't sever this bond

383
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:24,020
We have just because you don't have red hair just because you know, Lauren doesn't have any different and that's how I feel like

384
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:29,300
When my sister was adopted into my family, I don't remember life before her

385
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:31,620
So i'm sure she has a different experience but like

386
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:34,260
She's my sister through and through and like

387
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:40,660
No matter what you're my sister. So I just think it's um, I loved I loved Lauren's like tenacity and just like

388
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:46,180
Like holding on for dear life to this relationship with her big sister Maya and Maya can be so prickly

389
00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:51,300
But Lauren's like i'm not i'm not gonna ever let go of you. You're mine. Like don't let go of me like

390
00:29:51,940 --> 00:29:57,780
You know Lauren was scared that Maya would abandon her. Yeah, and I think that's a really interesting. I feel like a lot of

391
00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:00,420
a lot of like um

392
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:02,900
Adopting her own family

393
00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:07,620
Um adoptees like they have a fear of like oh I if I find my birth family

394
00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:11,620
Then my my family is gonna feel abandoned and I you know

395
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:18,020
That's something that obviously to work through but it's interesting how Lauren did Lauren was really scared that her sister was going to

396
00:30:18,820 --> 00:30:21,860
Kind of like forget about her. Yeah, like not meet her anymore

397
00:30:22,260 --> 00:30:26,260
The relationship would weaken because she found but I love and this is this is what I say all the time

398
00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:31,380
Because my mom raised me this way like adoption just means more people to love at least in my home

399
00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:34,660
And that's how I felt. I know it's not I know it's not everyone's experience

400
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:38,580
But my mom just reiterated that all the time whenever I go see my birth family

401
00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:41,460
Starting at age 12. I go by myself

402
00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:42,500
um

403
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:47,460
I get on an airplane go to seattle and hang out with my grandma my birth mom and cousins and aunts and

404
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:52,580
Um, every time I get back my mom's like, you know, we talk and she's like isn't that just wonderful?

405
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:56,900
She's like how many people love you and how many people you get to love?

406
00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:00,260
I'm like, I guess that's how it was framed to me my whole life. So that's how I feel

407
00:31:00,260 --> 00:31:04,500
And so I think lauren like sweet lauren maya's sister

408
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,260
She was terrified that it wasn't going to be more people to love

409
00:31:08,260 --> 00:31:12,660
I think lauren was terrified that maya was going to find quote her people and like

410
00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:20,740
Ditch lauren and lauren was going through this awful thing of her parents getting that like getting into going into a divorce and

411
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:22,340
um watching her

412
00:31:22,340 --> 00:31:29,220
You know lauren maya's mom starting with alcoholism and the dad leaving and like this really shaky time for lauren and maya kind of

413
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:31,220
it's almost like she gives us like

414
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:37,140
This like lifeboat thrown at her this like new family quote new family she can cling on to and lauren's like wait

415
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:41,860
I don't have a new family mine's falling apart like so I thought that was really great

416
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:47,460
I'm so like impressed that the author put that in there. Yeah, like it was such a great way because

417
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:50,340
It's like you have to look at every

418
00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:58,020
Everyone's experience with adoption not just the adoptee or you know, not just the you know, and yeah, I like that was very

419
00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:03,780
I loved it. Yeah, I felt like she did such a good job of showing that these sibling relationships

420
00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:10,420
Were organic with both right? Like yes organic biological sibling relationships where they had never met each other and

421
00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:15,780
They came together so naturally quickly. Yeah, and then adopted siblings, too

422
00:32:15,780 --> 00:32:19,540
It's yeah, they're both so it's all they know like I mean

423
00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:21,780
Yeah, my siblings

424
00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:25,140
They're all I know like blood related or not like the

425
00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:31,220
They're all I know like blood related or not. Like that's that's they're my people. Yeah, so I thought that was

426
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:38,180
Pretty pretty great that she talked about lauren's response to yes to my finding her birth family

427
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:40,900
for sure

428
00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:46,260
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's so much I did so many she packed a lot into this book

429
00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:51,940
She really did and it was such an easy quick read like yeah, like I could I couldn't I couldn't either

430
00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:58,500
I love it that each chapter was different perspectives and then you got kind of a little break every because you know

431
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:00,420
Maya

432
00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:02,420
I'm like, can we just Maya?

433
00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:06,340
But like I said by the end I was like she's great. Yes

434
00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:08,580
um, yeah

435
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:14,820
Yeah, so grace maya and wakine all struggled with some different times where they felt like they didn't belong with their families

436
00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:20,340
so do you feel like the sibling those feelings that these siblings had were

437
00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:25,860
Different similar and what the root was that was kind of getting to them

438
00:33:27,060 --> 00:33:27,940
Mm-hmm

439
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:34,100
Yeah, no, I think no, I think but here's the thing. I think um, I think everyone feels like they don't belong to their family

440
00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:38,100
I think everyone like you ask any like teenager who's having a bad day like

441
00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:44,500
No one understands me. No one like I thought it was like a really good view into just teenagers. You know what I mean?

442
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:51,060
But like, you know, there were these like little visual cues and these little like, you know, like these cues that they

443
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,900
Experienced that made them feel like they didn't belong like, you know, Maya's experience of not having red hair

444
00:33:57,220 --> 00:33:59,940
I mean, that's just just like an appearance thing

445
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:06,260
But it was like a big deal to her that she she stuck she like felt like she stuck out like a sore thumb. Yeah

446
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:07,860
um

447
00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:08,580
but

448
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:09,460
you know

449
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:10,740
I feel like

450
00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:14,900
You know that wasn't it. I feel like she didn't belong. Um, her own sense of humor

451
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:19,140
She would say like people just don't get me like my sarcasm like

452
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:22,660
She was so dry and so sarcastic and I'm like, oh

453
00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:29,700
Um, but but yeah, like grace. I felt like because she was an only child

454
00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:36,660
She didn't have someone to like bounce ideas off of she just had her little like her experience

455
00:34:36,660 --> 00:34:40,980
So like just being the center of her parents attention

456
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:43,940
um, and then

457
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:49,220
Like yeah, so that was an interesting. I don't know. Do you remember how she felt like maybe she didn't belong or do you think?

458
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:51,620
It was because she said her parents

459
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:58,100
Grace's parents, you know, they would say whenever you want to ask about your adoption

460
00:34:58,740 --> 00:35:03,620
You're welcome to ask us but I think it's interesting that the author put that in there. I think it's important

461
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:06,740
Like maybe that's too big of a weight to put on a kid

462
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:10,420
Like maybe it's important to like be like, hey, I wanted to talk about

463
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:15,860
You know your birth mom like sometime would you want to talk about that tomorrow or later today?

464
00:35:16,020 --> 00:35:20,980
Or like maybe giving you kids a head up instead of like it being all on the kid to talk about so

465
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:23,300
Grace talks about later with her parents in the book

466
00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:28,100
Why did I have to ask you like i'm just like I was just a child my whole life of cure

467
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:33,700
I was curious about how do I open that box like well and she also said at one point that she felt like

468
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:36,820
Her mother didn't really want her to ask these questions, right?

469
00:35:36,980 --> 00:35:39,380
She felt like it was just like a token thing to say yeah

470
00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:42,900
And like her grandmother her mom's mom had passed away around the same time

471
00:35:43,060 --> 00:35:49,700
Yeah, and she just felt like it was too much for the mother to talk about. Yeah remind me did so

472
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:50,820
um

473
00:35:50,820 --> 00:35:56,500
Grace's mom or grace's grandmother passed away right before her adoption right after I think it was after okay

474
00:35:56,500 --> 00:36:00,500
I think it was about when oh she was sick. That's what it was. Yeah, she was sick when she was born

475
00:36:00,580 --> 00:36:04,980
Okay, and then I think she passed away because they knew about maya being born. Oh, right

476
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:10,340
They couldn't adopt her. Yeah, because they didn't just get offered to adopt wakene

477
00:36:10,420 --> 00:36:13,860
They also got offered later after maya was born to adopt maya

478
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:19,380
Yeah, and that just made you think wow like you could like spin this into a whole sliding door situation where like okay

479
00:36:19,380 --> 00:36:22,020
What would have been like if they were raised together or what would have been like?

480
00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:26,180
So yeah, I feel like I liked how um that was brought up how?

481
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:30,420
It's so wonderful when parents say we're always willing to talk about your adoption

482
00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:36,260
But I think it's really important for parents to be like hey, I just was thinking about your your birth mom the other day. Um

483
00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:40,500
Isn't it so neat that this and that like I don't know. I think it's important for parents

484
00:36:41,140 --> 00:36:44,740
To also to say hey, it needs to be talked about it as an invitation

485
00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:46,740
But also to everyone so i'll just bring it up

486
00:36:46,820 --> 00:36:48,980
I was thinking about your grandma because like I

487
00:36:48,980 --> 00:36:54,500
Like I said, I grew up going and visiting my birth mom and my grandma starting at 12 and before I was 12 my parents

488
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:57,300
We would go on trips and if we were in like the area

489
00:36:57,780 --> 00:37:04,100
Um, we would my parents and I and siblings we would swing by my birth mom's house or more like my grandma's house

490
00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:05,540
My birth mom's mom

491
00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:09,860
Um, so I built that relationship first with my family like next to me

492
00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:12,100
But as a 12 year old, you know

493
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:16,180
So I have this great relationship with my grandma my birth mom's mom my grandma fran

494
00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:20,580
And just have so many wonderful memories. So, you know, it's even the parent just being like oh like

495
00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:23,300
I just love this quilt grandma fran made

496
00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:29,380
You know, she's so talented just like bringing up just bringing up really neat things about the birth family that your kids can hear

497
00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:33,300
Or even but if you don't know the story that's different but like but there's ways to bring it up

498
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:34,980
Yeah, yeah

499
00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:39,380
One thing that popped into my head while you were talking about that in the book orphan train writer

500
00:37:39,460 --> 00:37:45,540
It's a short little non-fiction book. I think it's aimed at middle grade readers, but it's fantastic

501
00:37:45,540 --> 00:37:49,060
I've talked about on the podcast too much probably but it's a really good little read

502
00:37:49,220 --> 00:37:52,500
Yeah, um, so it's a great historical perspective but lots of little

503
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,340
narratives from different people there was one girl who said

504
00:37:57,140 --> 00:37:59,140
that her adoptive mom

505
00:37:59,620 --> 00:38:02,820
Talked about her birth mom all the time and was always so sweet and loving

506
00:38:03,220 --> 00:38:05,780
They didn't know anything about her, but she would say things like

507
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:11,700
I know that she must be a lovely woman. I wish we could know her. Yeah, you're such a good girl

508
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:17,380
I bet you're just like her, you know, like there's ways that you can work in compassionate and loving discussions

509
00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:21,220
Even if you don't know it's so true and that actually reminds me of like my dad

510
00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:26,180
So this book really hit so many personal points because my parents got divorced when I was nine

511
00:38:26,740 --> 00:38:30,500
And so like you could say like, oh, I wonder if my birth mom was like

512
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,180
Oh, I guess I didn't choose the right family

513
00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:38,340
But like divorce doesn't mean like I can't be like I have a great experience because I had a wonderful experience

514
00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:44,420
Even after my parents divorced and like life's just it's just life, you know, and so I just my dad though

515
00:38:45,060 --> 00:38:48,420
He would say to me every once in a while gosh like because I would ask him like

516
00:38:48,740 --> 00:38:54,180
Do you think i'll ever find my birth dad? This is way before dna like was a thing that anyone thought could be used for

517
00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:57,140
Adoption I've already thought dna was for crime scenes, right?

518
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:02,980
So I just remember like my dad every once in a while. He would say yeah someday you're gonna find him like

519
00:39:02,980 --> 00:39:07,620
And and he would just talk about him. He's gonna just be so great like same thing like

520
00:39:08,260 --> 00:39:09,380
You know and just like yeah

521
00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:15,300
You're just saying those things like wow, like what an amazing what an amazing guy you must have done for like

522
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,700
I don't know. Just it's just it's not when parents make a little

523
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:24,020
Little effort. I think I talked about in a podcast with you that I did. What was the last year?

524
00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:25,620
um

525
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:29,940
how my parents there was like the santa lucia christmas like festival and

526
00:39:29,940 --> 00:39:36,260
Um, they're like devaney. Um, do you want to do this? They they need extra like helpers for the santa lucia

527
00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:37,940
I was three or four

528
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:44,340
And I remember I knew that I had swedish ancestry from my birth parents

529
00:39:44,420 --> 00:39:50,020
It was on my adoption record and they're like your birth family is swedish and this is a swedish tradition

530
00:39:50,820 --> 00:39:53,540
Do you want to do this? And I like oh that is so special

531
00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:56,980
I mean you feel like it made me feel like the whole event was about me

532
00:39:56,980 --> 00:40:02,340
I don't need three or four to like they're doing this for me. And so I think it's it's very sweet

533
00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:04,420
that um

534
00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:09,700
You know, like when you can give a nod to a birth parent. Yeah these parts of our time

535
00:40:10,020 --> 00:40:14,500
And also when a birth parent can give a nod to a to a parent and just you know

536
00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:17,780
Just be like gosh, I think you're like my grandma would do that all this time gosh

537
00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:23,380
Your parents are just so wonderful for for letting you come here and spending money then to fly you out here

538
00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:27,700
They just put me on a plane. See you later. My birth mom or grandma would pick me up

539
00:40:29,540 --> 00:40:33,140
I wonder how I'd feel about that now. Yeah, yeah back when you could walk to the gate

540
00:40:33,860 --> 00:40:38,900
It's wild. It's so different. Yeah, but I love that they did that. Yeah, I think it's pretty great

541
00:40:39,060 --> 00:40:44,420
I love that that conversation was compassionate all around. Yeah. Yeah, and I know that's not always the case

542
00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:47,860
But I think it's great that the author like really showed so many sides. Yeah

543
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:50,500
So many sides of that. Yeah

544
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:51,940
so

545
00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:58,420
Eventually grace maya and Joaquin decided that they want to go find and visit their birth mom. How did that

546
00:40:59,220 --> 00:41:01,460
pan out compared to how you were expecting like

547
00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:10,500
Yeah, I know right like yeah, that was that was tricky. I was um, so they go they go and find they have an address because

548
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:12,900
Is it maya that finds a letter? Uh-huh

549
00:41:13,540 --> 00:41:18,580
Every adopted kid like is always looking for evidence of letters, aren't they? I remember being a kid like looking through stuff

550
00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:23,620
And they go my gosh, this is my birth certificate and like by the way, my name is spelled wrong

551
00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:27,780
Whatever. Yeah, they had my parents had to get anyone because they wrote it down wrong or someone wrote it down wrong

552
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:30,980
but anyways besides that, um

553
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:33,460
so

554
00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:37,140
Yeah, so maya finds a letter and um

555
00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:38,900
she

556
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:44,580
She knows her birth mom's address. She knows where the like where the letter came from for some reason

557
00:41:44,580 --> 00:41:49,860
Yeah, it was it was just like on the letter. And so that's their clue and when maya finally understands, oh

558
00:41:50,660 --> 00:41:56,420
Remember how oh, I remember obviously this was a major theme grace does not tell her siblings that she placed a baby for adoption

559
00:41:56,420 --> 00:42:03,460
Yeah, she's so ashamed. She was she was ashamed of it and she was being like bullied severely at school about it

560
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:07,220
And well and she'd heard how they were talking about their birth mom

561
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:09,620
She was like, yeah, they're gonna judge me exactly

562
00:42:09,620 --> 00:42:14,260
She did not want like because they had already said those things about their birth mom and how they felt about it

563
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:19,460
She was terrified to say something because she wanted she wanted a relationship with them and she was scared

564
00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:25,460
I think that they would push away from her like how could you do that? You know, so when they finally all get on board

565
00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:30,820
So so grace finally tells her siblings well because of a because maya

566
00:42:32,020 --> 00:42:33,620
maya's like

567
00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:38,820
Personality, she steals grace's phone and finds like something on grace's phone

568
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:44,740
As a picture of the baby, I believe. Yeah, I just like who is this? Anyway, wow. Anyway, so

569
00:42:45,620 --> 00:42:52,100
So no boundaries maya. Um, so finally like so grace is like she wasn't ready

570
00:42:53,060 --> 00:42:57,860
That's you know, but she does share with her siblings that she just had a baby and she placed the baby for adoption

571
00:42:58,660 --> 00:43:03,700
And um, I feel like they were so supportive of her like immediately which I thought was so great

572
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:09,860
And then because of that they're like, okay. Yeah, like we love you and we see how like this has affected you

573
00:43:09,860 --> 00:43:16,660
Okay, we're gonna have compassion for our birth mom and now we're curious because and that changed it. Yeah, I loved how that changed it

574
00:43:16,660 --> 00:43:18,660
Yeah, she's not just this like

575
00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:21,060
Woman that quote gave us away

576
00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:25,700
They look at their sister and say she is a full

577
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:34,100
Faceted woman and she had probably had all these feelings and all these experiences. So, um, yeah

578
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:39,780
So they finally all get on board together. Okay. Yes. Let's do this together. And one of them says it's all it's all or none

579
00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:44,980
Like we're all together or not at all doing this. So I thought that was really great

580
00:43:45,860 --> 00:43:52,980
And so they have this clue from this old letter that was like stashed away in some records like files of her of maya's parents

581
00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:58,820
And you know walking gets this new gets a car from his foster family who wants to adopt him

582
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:04,900
He tells them no like I don't want to be adopted and then they keep exploring that but they still like extend so much love to him

583
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:10,100
Like no, we're not that's not conditional. Yeah, it's not conditional at all. They love his parents his foster parents

584
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:18,340
And so with this new car these teenagers, I mean think of all like the red tape they like just like fly through

585
00:44:18,340 --> 00:44:23,460
You know these teenagers go finding those searching for their birth mom and they with his apples

586
00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:25,220
They show up at the door

587
00:44:25,220 --> 00:44:31,300
And a woman opens the door and she looks you can tell they're related. They look like the same features

588
00:44:32,980 --> 00:44:39,380
And when she realizes who these three kids are she just is so like overcome with emotion and

589
00:44:39,780 --> 00:44:45,940
She tells them the story and this was hard. It wasn't it wasn't the birth mom. It was their birth mom sister

590
00:44:45,940 --> 00:44:49,700
so it was their aunt and the birth mom had passed away and

591
00:44:50,740 --> 00:44:52,740
I just feel like

592
00:44:52,740 --> 00:44:54,740
That is such

593
00:44:54,820 --> 00:44:58,900
It could be such a true story. It was for one. I have a lot of sisters you guys

594
00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:04,180
One of my sisters after she went looking for she was finally ready to find her birth mom and her birth mom had passed away

595
00:45:05,060 --> 00:45:09,220
Literally nine months before and so that heartbreaking. Yeah, so um

596
00:45:10,180 --> 00:45:12,180
so this was a really good like

597
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:18,360
Experience to share that like sometimes when you're ready, it's not quote too late because you had to be ready

598
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:23,240
You know to do that and that's what my sister has talked to me about. She's like no like I could not have done that before

599
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,120
Because she's I had to be ready for any outcome

600
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,120
and so when she was finally ready, she was quote like ready for

601
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:36,280
Her birth her birth mom to perhaps even have already passed away or have a heart like um

602
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,320
Like be going through some really hard things and not being able to have a relationship or you know, so

603
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:47,400
That was really moving that the that the siblings, you know, they had to deal with okay

604
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,320
Our birth mom's not here anymore

605
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,320
But the aunt shared all these beautiful stories and experiences with them

606
00:45:53,800 --> 00:46:00,760
And gave gave them their story and sometimes a story is like a huge piece of the puzzle that makes such a big difference

607
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,280
Not sometimes it is a huge piece of the puzzle for a lot of adoptees that it just knowing the story

608
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,040
brings so much clarity and so much compassion understanding

609
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,400
You know and like it can help their self-worth

610
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,120
You know, so I feel like um, that was so important that

611
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:19,800
You know

612
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,560
That the that their new aunt that they discovered shared the story and as much as she possibly could remember

613
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,600
It was really neat to hear that as a reader like oh my gosh, like yeah that explains this and that explains that and

614
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:34,520
And like the most touching thing ever was you know

615
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:38,360
That wakine was so deeply loved like yes

616
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,480
He had felt discarded his whole life and to find out the the real story

617
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:50,840
And how she desperately clung onto wakine and didn't want to place him and just was trying so hard to do everything

618
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,840
She could still remain his parent

619
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,160
And that just like her trials overcame her

620
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,200
But the sweetest gift ever was you know

621
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:03,240
It's interesting maya grew up with all these pictures of herself as like a baby and like

622
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:05,720
Annoyed that she wasn't redheaded or whatever

623
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,640
And what we learned earlier in the book that wakine was really triggered at a girlfriend's house because

624
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,920
He saw all her baby pictures and he actually broke up with her the next day because he couldn't handle

625
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,440
That he felt like he wasn't good enough for his parents

626
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,840
That he felt like he wasn't good enough for his girlfriend because he didn't have a quote past

627
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,960
He didn't have like a story like she didn't have the baby pictures

628
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:34,360
So the part of the book that legitimately made me cry was when the three siblings after the aunt

629
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,520
The aunt gives the three siblings a key to a safe deposit box and said wakine

630
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,920
This is for you like your like my sister your birth mom left this for you

631
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,720
It's it's yours and they go to the safety deposit box and open it

632
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:52,280
And it's like a bunch of baby pictures of him with his birth mom and you could just see how much she loved him

633
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,080
And like I think it like really helped him

634
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,120
to like see

635
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:04,360
To see and then to know because of what he saw how much his birth mom loved him and how much she tried. Yeah, you know

636
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,560
Try

637
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,680
That was a nice like wrap up. Yeah. Yeah

638
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:16,840
but like those those those baby pictures actually got me thinking about like gosh, I hope every foster kid like

639
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:24,200
Gets to have like photographs because they're I mean and it's probably not very common for them to have photographs and such a hard system

640
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,280
Yeah, yeah, and it's almost like

641
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,480
I was like wow, like I feel like every social worker should like have a file of like

642
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,760
You know, yeah pictures of the kid like like that they can like save for them

643
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:41,000
So they if was it if everybody wants and I don't want their pictures of their youth. I don't know obviously

644
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,240
That's just like me like spitting an idea out

645
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:49,880
But I just thought that was like really like hey that's needed like yeah people need pictures of themselves growing up to like, I don't know

646
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:56,920
I don't know. That was just an idea I had but I just loved I loved how Joaquin got his um, and then Joaquin

647
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,280
like

648
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:04,520
Chooses to be adopted after he resolves the things that are yeah like heavy on his heart and he's ready

649
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,520
Yeah, when he's ready. Yeah

650
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,440
After he had a huge fight with the sponsor parents. Well, he he was fighting they were just like extending love

651
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,160
But he was like I can't handle this. This is too much

652
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:22,600
No, I I loved this book. I felt like it addressed so much. I was so impressed with it. Yeah. Yeah

653
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,600
So what part of the book did you most relate to? We're gonna have to start wrapping up. I'm gonna say I know right

654
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,600
But I do want to hear yeah what your favorite parts were what you related to most

655
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:40,840
Oh my gosh, I mean gosh I related to so many things just from observing my siblings and my own adoption story

656
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,560
um, so I

657
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,120
I'm having like a really hard time

658
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,000
You know what actually this is really interesting. I don't know if it's relating

659
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,920
But this is gonna sound bizarre you guys. I just felt I felt so normal growing up

660
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,640
I thought everyone had a birth bomb like I just you know what I mean? Like it was so normal for me

661
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:07,560
I never felt out of place and I think it's because I had an open adoption from the beginning and not just an open option

662
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,560
But like a really healthy

663
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:15,160
experience with my birth mom and like my grandparents and my aunts and uncles and like my half siblings my

664
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,880
cousins like I just

665
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,280
I just felt like oh, yeah, like my birth mom. She's just like she just knew like

666
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,640
Quote she just knew this was the best thing for me and like I

667
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,560
I found my family and she you know, it was like this I was always

668
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:30,760
always

669
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,440
Reac it was always recounted to me like the day I was born my parents got to be there my birth mom

670
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:41,160
Wanted my parents to hold me first like I just in my head. It always made me think of yeah, like this is like

671
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:50,200
My birth mom just knew and everything was great. Everything was fine. But like um, I did not I said I'm embarrassed. I'm actually

672
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,920
Mortified, I guess I never thought I

673
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,840
I didn't really think of I I've never thought of her pain

674
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,080
For placing me because all the things I've heard and seen and talked with

675
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,600
My people about with my daughter's story my birth mom included

676
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,560
It was like never this like

677
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,600
Gut wrenching heart wrenching experience

678
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:16,600
But I when I look at grace's experience and what she went through and thinking of her her baby

679
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,560
Um and like worrying about did she do the right thing?

680
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,560
Did she place you know, I guess it actually really just made me want to have a conversation with my birth mom

681
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:31,880
I'd be like hey like fyi you did an incredible job making me feel incredibly secure like she never put this weight on me of

682
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,920
This is the hardest thing

683
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:40,040
Um, I ever did and it was like I was like, you know, she never said anything like that. Um

684
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,720
But like I always felt loved by her whenever I'd see her and like we'd always have like a lovely time

685
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,960
Um, but she always did tell me that she knew that my parents

686
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,280
Were my parents. She's like, I just knew it like and she was in a relationship like

687
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:56,360
Um

688
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:03,080
She got in a relationship like kind of right before I was placed for adoption and he wanted he's like I want to adopt the baby

689
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,280
Like I am like I would be more than happy to be that baby's father and she's like I just knew

690
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:14,920
I just knew that you were supposed to be with your parents and and your siblings your sisters. And so I guess I never really thought about

691
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,920
Like the pain I I know my grandma was very

692
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:27,800
It was incredibly difficult for my grandma because she had told me her experience but like appropriately never making me feel bad

693
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:33,960
But um, but this book just it made me want to know more about how my birth mom felt at that time

694
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:39,400
And and I got to see a little glimpse of it when I was you know, when I look back at this video my birth mom

695
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,840
Came to my hometown for an interview when I was nine months old

696
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,480
This news station in seattle. I told you about this

697
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:51,080
They they flew my birth mom out to see me and they filmed the whole like reunion like video of like

698
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,640
You know, anyway, it's just um

699
00:52:54,520 --> 00:53:01,000
So, I don't know. I guess I it'd be interesting to talk about with her her experience. How did you feel like did you have like?

700
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,480
any like

701
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,240
Post-traumatic feelings like did the things bubble up for you?

702
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:13,640
So I think that's I don't know if it was like I related to so many things from my own experience and from observing my

703
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:20,600
Loved ones my siblings experiences, but I would say this this book made me want to talk to my birth mom about her experience more

704
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,120
I love that. So I think that's probably my big takeaway. Yeah

705
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,600
That's beautiful. Thanks. All right. So overall do you recommend this book?

706
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,440
I definitely recommend this book interestingly that I didn't realize it was a ya book

707
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,840
It's considered a ya book. I think it's a good book

708
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,160
I didn't realize it was a ya book. It's considered a ya book and it won some like national award

709
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,320
I'm not surprised. It's yeah, it won an award

710
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:47,640
I would say like it's I might be like a little bit heavy for like I think like an older teen was great

711
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,040
Yeah, a younger teen. I would like I said wait. Yeah

712
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,520
um, but I

713
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,320
I realized later that this is meant to be a ya novel. Like wow, this is actually very engaging and very interesting and

714
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:04,040
Like I will not forget these stories. Yeah, I read so many books and

715
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,080
I can easily forget them but like I won't forget this one

716
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:13,880
She did such an incredible job of making me like very interested in these characters and their outcomes and

717
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:20,440
So I would highly recommend it. I loved it. So I would too. Well, and thanks for inviting me to read with you

718
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:29,640
Thank you so much. It was so fun. Yeah, I loved it. Thanks so much for being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me

719
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,400
Well, we want to give a big thanks to devony for meeting with lanette and having this discussion

720
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,640
About far from the tree so grateful for her and for her insights

721
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,600
As it is national adopts adoption month or adoptee awareness month

722
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:50,440
We just want to turn the attention to where it should be the voice of the adoptee. So thank you so much

723
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,920
Devon E for sharing we look forward to sharing a few more

724
00:54:53,800 --> 00:55:01,160
Episodes coming up next week. We have an adoptee named. Sherilyn who also is previously on the podcast

725
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:08,280
One of the first adoptees that we interviewed she and lanette will have a discussion about the book orphan train

726
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:14,120
So put that on your list your listening list or go check it out of the library and read that

727
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,880
also just want to let you know that

728
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,600
the adoption guide for parents that lanette has

729
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,600
Written we've actually added five new chapters

730
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:32,120
and about 40 new pages of content to that and if you're interested in

731
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:38,780
In purchasing that you can currently buy it for 9.99 and that's available at open adoption project.org

732
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:41,320
and uh

733
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,640
Again, this is a resource that she has created for the adoption community

734
00:55:45,940 --> 00:55:48,860
particularly those who are hoping to adopt who have recently adopted

735
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,820
That helps us focus on the adoptee and create an open adoption experience

736
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,320
that

737
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,320
Will set them up for a lot of success

738
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,840
So, uh go check that out all the proceeds go straight back into the podcast so that we can keep

739
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,240
producing so

740
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:07,240
Thank you so much for being a listener

741
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:14,440
We're grateful for you and hope that you can continue to be a force for good in educating the world about adoption

742
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:27,740
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project

743
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,680
You