Welcome to the open adoption project. This is episode 113
I'm Shaun and in this episode
Lanette has an interview with Devaney and Devaney is an adoptee who shared her story with us back in episode 72 and
together
They will have a discussion of a book club discussion about the book far from the tree by
Robin Benway and
If you haven't read the book, this is probably a good time for you to
Pause and go read it or if you don't care about spoilers keep listening
But far from the tree like I mentioned from Robin Benway is a young adult novel that explores the theme of family identity
adoption and belonging
The story this particular story centers on three teenagers
that were that are siblings who were separated at birth and that were adopted by different families and although
They've grown up in different environments
they only learned about each other's existence in their teenage years and
Their shared background and their connection to one another gradually
Draws them together. It's a good read and I love to listen to this conversation with Lynette and Devaney
I love amplifying adoptive voices and hearing from her perspective was
Really great. So we hope that you enjoy this conversation with Lynette and Devaney again about the book far from the tree and
We'll cut to that conversation right now
We are here on the podcast with Devaney Devaney welcome back we're so happy to have you here again
Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I love books. So I'm so excited
Thank you. Yeah, we're really excited to be talking about a few different books for National Adoption Month
Just having some little book club sessions. And so today we're gonna be talking about a book called far from the tree
And Devaney recommended this book you had heard about it. Yeah
Yeah, I had just been looking at books about adoption and this one
I had two friends that previously read it and they had their
Like ratings and their own personal reviews of it on Goodreads and I trust those friends opinions and I was like, ooh if they like it
I'm sure it's good and being about adoption. I thought was really interesting. I just you know, yeah looked interesting
Yeah, well, I loved reading this book. They really did me too. So I'm excited to talk about it today
so
Start off. Um
How would you summarize this book to someone who doesn't care about spoilers, but just wants to hear a couple sentences about it? Okay, cool
Yeah, I think
this book gives you a really wide view of different adoption experiences and it gives you
lots of different voices about every
part of the adoption story people from every part of the adoption story words like the adoptee the parents the birth parents
parents
If there's social worker workers involved just so many different angles and views that I feel like some books
They just kind of hyper focus on one person's experience where I loved this one because it gives you
So many different angles and views I loved that too
And so there's three perspectives in the book and these three perspectives
They're all siblings, but they have such different experiences, which I thought was really well done
Mm-hmm. So the author of this book was not adopted right? He said that you learned a bit about this
Yeah, I looked into her and yeah, she just I guess she came up with the idea in a parking lot
I did you hear about that? No, so she was I guess her publisher was like, hey
Can you give me some idea of what you're gonna be writing next? So she's like, I'm so sorry
I'm just really kind of blank right now and
So but then she was grocery shopping and then she was in the parking lot and I think maybe getting out of like
Pulling out of her parking spot and a song from Florence and the Machine can and she says the lyrics hit her so hard
And it's from that song. I wrote down cosmic love by Florence and machine
And the first line is a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes
I don't know how that would make you think of adoption
but I was like, I think she was probably supposed to write this book because but now like when I read that like, oh, yeah, like that could totally be like a birth mom's
Experience or like an adopted parents experience like a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes
I just feel like so she she said like the story came to her right there in the car from those lyrics
And she said she'd heard the lyrics like tons of times before because she loves that song and loves that artist
But I just thought it was so interesting that it just the story came flooding to her and she felt like she couldn't write it fast enough
That's amazing. That's really beautiful. Yeah, and she wasn't connected to the adoption community
But you can tell she put research into yeah, totally. Yeah, I also I heard that
I heard that she just had like so many books about adoption on her kitchen table that one whenever her friends came over
I guess a neighbor came over they're like, oh, congratulations. Are you adopting and she's like no, I'm running a book
Love that she had so many so many yeah
Books out doing so much research. But yeah, she said that there she said that like no story that she read was the same
And that's what fascinated her about writing about this. I love that. Yeah. Well, and the book starts off really strong
I got hooked pretty fast. It starts off introducing a character named Grace. Mm-hmm. And within we've already
Told on the podcast. We're gonna have spoilers, of course. Yes, so I recommend reading the book before you listen
Yes, but it jumps in and talks about grace and we find out that she was adopted
And she becomes a birth mom a teen mother and that places her baby for adoption in the first chapter
Yeah, but which it's a big yelling right away
And I think actually I think it starts with I mean
I've read the summary on the back knowing that there was gonna be like a few different adoption stories in it
And the first thing that you kind of find out is that she's pregnant
She's a teenager and I was like, okay and then it closes with a chapter be like and I want to have a birth mom
I'm like, oh, so you're also like adopted and I didn't realize she was gonna be a character. So I was like, oh, that's like
It was a big surprise. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I don't know how much of my experience you want to mean to go into
I mean, I'm adopted open adoptions and sounds baby and I have all my sisters
Are adopted and they all have different adoption stories different layers and levels of openness and closeness
And so I do have a sister that she was adopted and like, you know into our family and she also
Had like a pregnancy as a teenager and she also placed her baby
So I thought that was really interesting to be for me to be able to like kind of step into
So personal again, because I was a child when it happens and my sister was a teenager in her late teens
And so it was really neat to be able to kind of step into
You know, maybe not her exact experience but just like okay like put myself in that place
I thought that was really powerful the way that the author
Did that you really felt like so much compassion and love and like you can kind of feel what grace was was going through
She did a great job writing that chapter
Yeah, so did you feel based on your sister's experience and seeing that like the complexities of grace and love
Like the complexities of grace's situation felt realistic
Yeah, I feel like it was very realistic
It must bring up so many feelings of like, you know, you grow up maybe you might
I'm not saying my sister but you might grow up as an adoptee
I never felt this way but you might grow up being like how why would someone do this to me?
Like why was I given up? Why was I given away? Why was it discarded?
You know, like they might have that quote discarded right like people have
Some really heavy feelings about that
Um, I had a different experience but I do know adoptees who feel that way and so it was really neat to see grace
You know that she loves this baby. You know that she is like having such a hard time
um
Doing this placement, but she feels like it's the best thing for her baby
So it's kind of neat. I feel like the author did do a great job of showing that
Yeah
Yeah, and so then after we meet grace we meet her two siblings who were also adopted by different
Yes stuff. Yeah. Yes
So the parenting between grace and her sister maya and her brother quakin
And their adoptive families was really different. I want to talk about that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So
Honestly, it's like so good. First of all
I think I told you this like in a text not like maya the sister maya drives me absolutely bonkers
But by the end of the book, she really does she's endearing
Yes, and you see that some of her behaviors behaviors are because of the way that she has like
internalized her adoption story and not just her adoption story
But like just how she always felt kind of like the out like the outlier because she's a brunette
Maya is a brunette
And she's raised by right like these redheaded these two parents that are redheads
They were adopted by her parents that are redheads and then she has a redhead sister that was born shortly after she was
Placed into her home and maya just drove me absolutely nuts
um
Just because I feel like she always had a chip on her shoulder
and um, I mean I don't I just
Like I said, i'm coming from my experience of feeling so blessed from my adoption and my open adoption. I love my birth mom
Um that like i'm like gosh. Yeah, you have it so hard maya. Don't you you have parents who love you?
What's the song hard?
You're a little bit and like um, anyway, I thought it was interesting that like she felt like an outsider because of
Her lack of red hair, but then you have Joaquin that is like he goes through this experience of being like
a mexican-american
like
Or a latino american kid
um, and the way he was treated for his like obvious difference from a lot of
you know
His like foster families whereas maya just had this big chip on her shoulder because she didn't have red hair. I'm like
I'm like, I'm pretty sure Joaquin had it harder than you because like you know what I mean?
Like people just assumed that he spoke spanish people just assumed that he could talk about
Like his like his Spanish traditions. Anyway, I just thought it was funny
But then it just makes you appreciate people good people process their experiences differently
But sorry you were talking you wanted to talk about the parenting experience. No, that's a good tangent. Yeah, so
Maya's parents, um, they're going through some really hard stuff personally. Yeah, um
Um, and it's okay to talk about spoilers. Yeah, just read just read the book guys pause it and read the book and then come back
If you don't anyway, so, um maya's parents have had like a really rocky relationship for quite a long time
It seems like right like years like yeah their their relationship between the two of them. Yeah
Not my parents. Yeah
Like they they couldn't they couldn't conceive a child and so they adopted
And then they ended up pregnant which I know is common
Um, and so Maya kind of always felt like well, you know, they only adopted me because they couldn't have one and then anyway, so
Um, but her parents have a really rocky relationship and you discover that her mom is suffering from alcoholism
And it's drawn this huge wedge between the parents where I feel like the dad isolates a lot
Yeah, right. I mean what else did you see? Yeah, it's a dark family situation
But it felt like they were also good sides, right? I really liked how
Realistic all these families feel because they're not perfect, but they also have strengths
Yeah, like it felt like Maya's parents were a lot more accepting. They were open to having conversations. Yes, and
It was comfortable right like Maya came out to her parents
And yeah, I put a sticker on his car and like, you know, they were supportive of her
and I think that's a great way to explain how the author really did like weave that beautifully like
Um, yes, her parents really struggle and their toxic relationship with each other affected the kids
But they were they showed up for their kids Maya and their daughter their other daughter Lauren in so many ways
Like you were saying like Maya Maya is gay and she has a girlfriend but her parents, um
Wholeheartedly accept her so you see like those characters they have this flaw of having this toxic relationship with themselves
But they try really hard to be there for their kids and I thought that was a really neat way because
You know, it's not just black and white with all these parents are you know
Bad guys, sorry, you know, like they're just like, oh they're mine. Yeah, very realistic
Yeah, and I thought that was really interesting too because um after grace placed her baby
With this really lovely couple that she really was so intentional about just really wanting to find a fantastic
Loving couple for for who she called her. She calls her baby peach. Yes. I loved that
I was sweet. She calls her baby peach because when she finds out she's pregnant it was the size of a peach apparently
And she just kind of clung onto that but
Um, it's interesting because you get to see how grace is so intentional about selecting a family for peach
And then Maya you see you just know that everyone wants their baby to have the best family placement
And then you see this family as Maya and Lauren are like teens this family's falling apart
And you know a birth mom could look at that and be like I made the wrong choice
But at the same time there's so many good things that Maya has in her life
And I mean, I think I remember the book that like Maya was very like her family was very affluent too. Like she had a lot of like
Just wonderful opportunities and like a beautiful house, you know
So I just was interesting contrast. I like that
I like that the author made it well rounded in like just the
The humanness of every character like yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well in the beginning it felt like grace's parents were like these kind of perfect parents, right? Yeah
Um
They were really loving and supportive but they also had a hard time grace said that she felt like she couldn't ask her mom questions
And like there was this barrier between communication there. And so of course they all had struggles
Yeah, and then Joaquin's foster parents mark and linda were so sweet and lovely. Yeah, but
They recognized I loved that they recognized and talked about we can't give you everything and we want to help you get everything you need, right?
Like I think we can't teach you how to make tamales. Yeah, the things. Yeah, that's one of the things we talked about
Yeah, yeah, I thought it was speaking of parents like okay
So when grace finds out that she is gonna have a baby and she's pregnant her boyfriend at the time max
Is just kind of like this like uber privileged like rich kid and his parents are like
Uber privileged like rich kid and his parents are so upset
That grace is pregnant his dad was awful and max's mom was just kind of like a little like
Wuthering willow like wouldn't speak up and like say hey ease up like to max's dad max's dad was cruel and he just
Branded grace as being like a bad girl and how max is dating a good girl now
And that was infuriating to hear all this blame being placed on grace for this
You know tricky
Situation with okay. What do we do with this baby because I feel like if max's parents had been more supportive and kind and understanding
You know, maybe grace would have made a different choice
You know, but I mean I I feel like grace did a wonderful thing like as an adopting myself
I'm so grateful that I have my family
But yeah, it just it almost kind of like makes you feel like maybe grace would have kept her baby if it wasn't for max's dad's reaction
her baby if it wasn't for max's dad's reaction max's reaction and just
So yeah the way that the way that these parents are represented like it you it gives you the really good view of like maybe these kids are
You know, maybe of course the kids are influenced influenced by the parents parenting style and their reactions to hard trials. It's like
What like for instance when my mom?
When my mom found out that my sister was pregnant. I wasn't there when she found out but I saw the way my mom reacted in the
days weeks months up and I just was like wow, like my mom is so loving and understanding and full of just like
Um, just has grace and compassion. Yeah, I just feel like I'm it's it really matters like how you react to your kids trials
Really like the reaction is really what matters
What matters?
I love that. That's
Great thing to see
Um, how do you think grace's situation with getting pregnant helped her relate to her own birth mom in ways that her siblings couldn't?
Yeah, they talked about that
So when Joaquin and Maya and grace finally meet I think one of them or like I think yeah grace says
You know, are you guys interested in meeting our birth mom?
We're finding her and Maya and Joaquin are like immediately like no way. She didn't want us. She gave us away
Joaquin had a really like i'm looking forward to talking about Joaquin's experience Joaquin had a really like treacherous like
uh experience through foster homes in and out of foster homes and um
So I feel like they were they were immediately like there's no way but because grace has this extra layer of well now
I'm a birth mom now I can relate and understand
This isn't just a cut and dry situation. This is like
very
very affecting every single day she thinks about peach and
um
It's just like this this laurence and the machine sawing a falling star fell from your heart and landed in my eyes
And I just think about
You know grace like she her whole heart she had to have her whole heart
like willing to place peach and then
You know because she had that experience now. She understands that it was out of love that her birth mom
Placed her. Yeah
so I thought that was
Yeah, very interesting and just like how they because she was not because she was a birth mom herself now
She could have compassion for her birth mom
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like a lot of the adoptees i've talked to
When they have that closed adoption
when they ultimately
Reunite and meet their birth mom as parents themselves it just changes or like when they become parents
They are more inclined to go and find their birth mom and it changes
that perception if
Maybe it wasn't such a positive perception before it shifts
When parents I think that's such a huge thing to point out too with um two of my siblings
uh when each of them had um
like when my one when one of my siblings had
Her so her first child she placed for adoption and her second child when she had her second child. She was ready to
Um look for and meet her birth mom and that's when she was able to do that
Yeah
and I think it's the parenthood is a really big step for adoptees to decide because I feel like
Oh, and it's interesting too because I don't believe and I I hope I don't mess this up
I don't believe she attempted to try and find her birth mom until she
Had her second child her first child. She didn't raise. She placed her first child
Uh, and maybe just her heart wasn't ready because I was so hard so heavy, but her second she
It was like it was like right on the heels of one of my um nieces being born that she chose and then and same for my other sister
When my other sister had her first child is when she sought out
um
The records and to open everything up and so I think that's a really important stuff is like
I think parenthood brings up a lot of
things for adoptees and wanting to
Wanting to seek out answers because you are more mature. You do have a higher understanding
When you are a parent yourself
So interesting. Yeah, and then Joaquin's story was really interesting because he was in the foster care system. Yeah throughout his childhood
How did his experience impact your perceptions of children and care or yeah these relationships?
Yeah, I think that like, you know, first of all, it breaks your heart because um,
I believe he was placed for adoption
What I believe his birth mom
Her name is what is it? Melissa Taylor? Yeah, um his birth mom
I believe kept him for wasn't she wasn't Joaquin with her when she was pregnant with grace
I believe there's like a picture of him on her hip. Yeah
Yeah, she parented for a while. Yeah for like about a year and then I think something
She the mom I think she struggled you find out later that she was struggling with some really like
Bad relationships and and just like not being able to take care of herself and jumping from job to job
so
Yeah, so Joaquin was this like beautiful baby boy for I think a year or a year or more with his
His birth mom and then he was placed into foster care
And then when you also find out early in the book that grace's parents were both
Hey, the baby actually has a big brother
Do you want to also adopt him? They weren't able I read that. Yeah, they said that they didn't feel like they could
Um, you know, because it was their first time being a parent and they felt maybe like, okay. Well, we're ready for a baby, but we don't know
So I don't blame grace's parents for not adopting him
But the more you read about Joaquin so you're like they should have adopted him
You know, you never know they didn't know
What was his name?
You know, you never know they didn't know what was going on and what would happen to Joaquin
But yeah
He just bounced from from home to home and because and they do bring this up intentionally in the book and like the characters talk
about it Joaquin's like I'm brown like, you know, he says I I'm brown and like
Boys and like boys of color don't get adopted as readily
I mean, it's like exponentially less than kids. So so hard like
Brown as he says, you know, so
um, and I guess that's um
One of the things that author talked about and something that I listened to because I just like love after I read it
But to just dive in and be like, okay, tell me all about this process. She said that like she literally typed in
Adoption into google and the first thing that came up was like an npr article or story about
the like shocking contrast of like how many
I think it was like I think it was like latin american or
um, like boy like young boys of color that don't get adopted because because of their color and like
How exponentially more expensive it is for kids that are white to be like adopted?
She she just thought I have to put this in the book because these numbers are so shocking
That she wanted people to understand there is a problem here
You know, and so walkie, I think she she really wanted Joaquin's experience to reflect that like
disparity
That a lot of kids face
Um as they're as they're growing up and trying to find a home and race and not a foster care
So it was so sweet. It was heartbreaking. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, it's a sweet kid and he just had a lot of really hard stuff
Yeah throughout his life. He was adopted and then placed back into care, right?
And because he because of like an anger management issue, but he would because it was bringing up so
Some I forget what oh I did the family that he was adopted into the first time the big cannons
I think it was after their baby was born that he like he said I didn't know why
And then we found out later why he goes by but it was it brought up a lot of like anger and he loved the baby
There was like very true. Yeah, there's very true. I was popping up and he didn't understand it because he was like what was he like 12?
Or he was like little maybe I thought it was like nine or 10. Yeah, he was young. Yeah
Yeah, and he couldn't he's like I couldn't I didn't understand the time but it was after the baby was born
I got really angry and like really sad and really mad and you know
he knows now is because
It was like his experience as a baby and like looking at that baby and understanding like how could someone give away a baby?
How did someone abandon a baby? Oh because his birth mom was supposed to meet him for a visitation
And she never showed up and he did
I think he remembered waiting for her when he was like a toddler and she never showed up
Yeah, and he was wearing his favorite shirt like it was a spider-man shirt. That's right
Yeah, he was wearing his favorite shirt because he knew he was gonna see his birth mom
You know his walk to was his mom because he wasn't adopted yet
um, and
She just didn't show up. And so
I think that just when that baby was born in his new family
I think it triggered him really bad and he started behavioral problems and then he his dad was trying to like
walk he was like throwing things like just and so his dad came in and
Tried to like hold him down to stop like walking grabbed a stapler and threw it across the room and it hit the baby
Yeah, it hit the baby in the head and the baby passed out. Maybe the baby was fine
But what he never forgave himself? He felt so
Yeah, and he was taken away like he that family like I don't know the term for this
Unadopted him. Yeah, they placed him back into care. Yeah, they relinquished him
Back into care. Yeah, which happens more than a shit. We've got a few adoptees on our show
Yeah, my my sister was too. Yeah, so my when we I mean I was so young. I don't remember my life without her
but one of my sisters, um
she was 12 when she was like what would you say it really good is that what they say like
and um
She's been adopted before yeah, she was a newborn for like a day old baby and wow
When she was 12. Yeah, so that I can't even imagine. I can't get into that like mentally like
I have so much like
Like compassion for where she's been and I have no clue how that would I could even handle that
So so reading Joaquin's story really again put me in one of my sisters
She has and I was like, wow gosh, this really is an experience that people have and like the soul crushing
Just like the heartbreaking
This pain that you would
Have to process from from having a your family. Yeah, like well, and he really struggled with his self-worth
Yeah throughout the book. Yeah, I feel like he began to
Get better at accepting himself and seeing his value
Like it was a struggle like he didn't believe his sisters would really want a relationship would like keep coming back
Yes, like after he met them. Yeah, this is kind of like he kind of had his hands like out at a distance
Yeah, he's like being careful. Yeah, he's guarding himself which makes so much sense
So absolutely because I love how the author like the story unfolds
You don't get all the information at the beginning but the author really helped you like peel back
Why each character was the way they were and like I said by the end of the book, I didn't mind Maya. Yeah
Yeah, she just has a hard personality. You know what I mean? Like
That's it. She was just just she's just like had a really like funny personality or i'm just like, uh, Maya
Stop being so prickly about everything. She was at the age where she was so prickly. Yeah, exactly
A little yeah, she's just a little prickly about everything and it's just I don't think it had anything to do with her adoption
I think her personality was just prickly. Yeah
her tendency so
Uh, anyway, so yeah. Um
Yeah, Joaquin, uh, I just like it's pretty amazing to see
Joaquin's foster parents
Mark and Linda how they were relentless about wanting to show him
And they loved him and wanted him to be part of their family and it's really neat to see him go through
like learning to accept that he is of worth and love and loved um,
And then like he is they ask him like would you like us to we would like to adopt you
Will you be our child and like he has to work he works through that takes time
Yeah, and it really does and I think it was really good the way that she
Portrayed him having to struggle through that because he's like this can't be real like he's 17. He's 17
Yeah, it's like almost an adult but this these these parents are relentless in their pursuit of just like
We love you and like we're gonna be so patient with you and they had I thought it was pretty cool
They like had a therapist that they worked with and they asked Joaquin if he wanted to go to and
It was great that he went. I mean it shows a lot about Joaquin's like inner character that he just like
Yeah, I think at the beginning he was like, oh, I don't want to be the therapist
But I actually really like her so i'm gonna keep talking. Yeah
That's pretty cool. Yeah Joaquin's growth was incredible. It really was
Yeah, I think I think his character had the most growth. Yes, like for us as readers to like see in the book
That's probably the way that the author wrote it
Absolutely
Yeah, so Maya was the only sibling who had a sibling growing up right like Lauren was her sister, right?
The other the redhead child. Yes. Yeah, and like they talked about how the how like she would um
She would walk up her stairs. Maya would walk up the stairs and all the family photos were out
It was these three redheads and her like i'm just like she's like surrounded by
Yeah, yeah, and I loved I loved how they portrayed her little sister Lauren
I love that like Lauren was like i'm your family quit trying to like find new family
Obviously everyone wants like not everybody like it's of course she wants to find her her her birth family
But or she's curious about her new siblings
So but I like how Lauren was like just adding it like you can't sever this bond
We have just because you don't have red hair just because you know, Lauren doesn't have any different and that's how I feel like
When my sister was adopted into my family, I don't remember life before her
So i'm sure she has a different experience but like
She's my sister through and through and like
No matter what you're my sister. So I just think it's um, I loved I loved Lauren's like tenacity and just like
Like holding on for dear life to this relationship with her big sister Maya and Maya can be so prickly
But Lauren's like i'm not i'm not gonna ever let go of you. You're mine. Like don't let go of me like
You know Lauren was scared that Maya would abandon her. Yeah, and I think that's a really interesting. I feel like a lot of
a lot of like um
Adopting her own family
Um adoptees like they have a fear of like oh I if I find my birth family
Then my my family is gonna feel abandoned and I you know
That's something that obviously to work through but it's interesting how Lauren did Lauren was really scared that her sister was going to
Kind of like forget about her. Yeah, like not meet her anymore
The relationship would weaken because she found but I love and this is this is what I say all the time
Because my mom raised me this way like adoption just means more people to love at least in my home
And that's how I felt. I know it's not I know it's not everyone's experience
But my mom just reiterated that all the time whenever I go see my birth family
Starting at age 12. I go by myself
um
I get on an airplane go to seattle and hang out with my grandma my birth mom and cousins and aunts and
Um, every time I get back my mom's like, you know, we talk and she's like isn't that just wonderful?
She's like how many people love you and how many people you get to love?
I'm like, I guess that's how it was framed to me my whole life. So that's how I feel
And so I think lauren like sweet lauren maya's sister
She was terrified that it wasn't going to be more people to love
I think lauren was terrified that maya was going to find quote her people and like
Ditch lauren and lauren was going through this awful thing of her parents getting that like getting into going into a divorce and
um watching her
You know lauren maya's mom starting with alcoholism and the dad leaving and like this really shaky time for lauren and maya kind of
it's almost like she gives us like
This like lifeboat thrown at her this like new family quote new family she can cling on to and lauren's like wait
I don't have a new family mine's falling apart like so I thought that was really great
I'm so like impressed that the author put that in there. Yeah, like it was such a great way because
It's like you have to look at every
Everyone's experience with adoption not just the adoptee or you know, not just the you know, and yeah, I like that was very
I loved it. Yeah, I felt like she did such a good job of showing that these sibling relationships
Were organic with both right? Like yes organic biological sibling relationships where they had never met each other and
They came together so naturally quickly. Yeah, and then adopted siblings, too
It's yeah, they're both so it's all they know like I mean
Yeah, my siblings
They're all I know like blood related or not like the
They're all I know like blood related or not. Like that's that's they're my people. Yeah, so I thought that was
Pretty pretty great that she talked about lauren's response to yes to my finding her birth family
for sure
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's so much I did so many she packed a lot into this book
She really did and it was such an easy quick read like yeah, like I could I couldn't I couldn't either
I love it that each chapter was different perspectives and then you got kind of a little break every because you know
Maya
I'm like, can we just Maya?
But like I said by the end I was like she's great. Yes
um, yeah
Yeah, so grace maya and wakine all struggled with some different times where they felt like they didn't belong with their families
so do you feel like the sibling those feelings that these siblings had were
Different similar and what the root was that was kind of getting to them
Mm-hmm
Yeah, no, I think no, I think but here's the thing. I think um, I think everyone feels like they don't belong to their family
I think everyone like you ask any like teenager who's having a bad day like
No one understands me. No one like I thought it was like a really good view into just teenagers. You know what I mean?
But like, you know, there were these like little visual cues and these little like, you know, like these cues that they
Experienced that made them feel like they didn't belong like, you know, Maya's experience of not having red hair
I mean, that's just just like an appearance thing
But it was like a big deal to her that she she stuck she like felt like she stuck out like a sore thumb. Yeah
um
but
you know
I feel like
You know that wasn't it. I feel like she didn't belong. Um, her own sense of humor
She would say like people just don't get me like my sarcasm like
She was so dry and so sarcastic and I'm like, oh
Um, but but yeah, like grace. I felt like because she was an only child
She didn't have someone to like bounce ideas off of she just had her little like her experience
So like just being the center of her parents attention
um, and then
Like yeah, so that was an interesting. I don't know. Do you remember how she felt like maybe she didn't belong or do you think?
It was because she said her parents
Grace's parents, you know, they would say whenever you want to ask about your adoption
You're welcome to ask us but I think it's interesting that the author put that in there. I think it's important
Like maybe that's too big of a weight to put on a kid
Like maybe it's important to like be like, hey, I wanted to talk about
You know your birth mom like sometime would you want to talk about that tomorrow or later today?
Or like maybe giving you kids a head up instead of like it being all on the kid to talk about so
Grace talks about later with her parents in the book
Why did I have to ask you like i'm just like I was just a child my whole life of cure
I was curious about how do I open that box like well and she also said at one point that she felt like
Her mother didn't really want her to ask these questions, right?
She felt like it was just like a token thing to say yeah
And like her grandmother her mom's mom had passed away around the same time
Yeah, and she just felt like it was too much for the mother to talk about. Yeah remind me did so
um
Grace's mom or grace's grandmother passed away right before her adoption right after I think it was after okay
I think it was about when oh she was sick. That's what it was. Yeah, she was sick when she was born
Okay, and then I think she passed away because they knew about maya being born. Oh, right
They couldn't adopt her. Yeah, because they didn't just get offered to adopt wakene
They also got offered later after maya was born to adopt maya
Yeah, and that just made you think wow like you could like spin this into a whole sliding door situation where like okay
What would have been like if they were raised together or what would have been like?
So yeah, I feel like I liked how um that was brought up how?
It's so wonderful when parents say we're always willing to talk about your adoption
But I think it's really important for parents to be like hey, I just was thinking about your your birth mom the other day. Um
Isn't it so neat that this and that like I don't know. I think it's important for parents
To also to say hey, it needs to be talked about it as an invitation
But also to everyone so i'll just bring it up
I was thinking about your grandma because like I
Like I said, I grew up going and visiting my birth mom and my grandma starting at 12 and before I was 12 my parents
We would go on trips and if we were in like the area
Um, we would my parents and I and siblings we would swing by my birth mom's house or more like my grandma's house
My birth mom's mom
Um, so I built that relationship first with my family like next to me
But as a 12 year old, you know
So I have this great relationship with my grandma my birth mom's mom my grandma fran
And just have so many wonderful memories. So, you know, it's even the parent just being like oh like
I just love this quilt grandma fran made
You know, she's so talented just like bringing up just bringing up really neat things about the birth family that your kids can hear
Or even but if you don't know the story that's different but like but there's ways to bring it up
Yeah, yeah
One thing that popped into my head while you were talking about that in the book orphan train writer
It's a short little non-fiction book. I think it's aimed at middle grade readers, but it's fantastic
I've talked about on the podcast too much probably but it's a really good little read
Yeah, um, so it's a great historical perspective but lots of little
narratives from different people there was one girl who said
that her adoptive mom
Talked about her birth mom all the time and was always so sweet and loving
They didn't know anything about her, but she would say things like
I know that she must be a lovely woman. I wish we could know her. Yeah, you're such a good girl
I bet you're just like her, you know, like there's ways that you can work in compassionate and loving discussions
Even if you don't know it's so true and that actually reminds me of like my dad
So this book really hit so many personal points because my parents got divorced when I was nine
And so like you could say like, oh, I wonder if my birth mom was like
Oh, I guess I didn't choose the right family
But like divorce doesn't mean like I can't be like I have a great experience because I had a wonderful experience
Even after my parents divorced and like life's just it's just life, you know, and so I just my dad though
He would say to me every once in a while gosh like because I would ask him like
Do you think i'll ever find my birth dad? This is way before dna like was a thing that anyone thought could be used for
Adoption I've already thought dna was for crime scenes, right?
So I just remember like my dad every once in a while. He would say yeah someday you're gonna find him like
And and he would just talk about him. He's gonna just be so great like same thing like
You know and just like yeah
You're just saying those things like wow, like what an amazing what an amazing guy you must have done for like
I don't know. Just it's just it's not when parents make a little
Little effort. I think I talked about in a podcast with you that I did. What was the last year?
um
how my parents there was like the santa lucia christmas like festival and
Um, they're like devaney. Um, do you want to do this? They they need extra like helpers for the santa lucia
I was three or four
And I remember I knew that I had swedish ancestry from my birth parents
It was on my adoption record and they're like your birth family is swedish and this is a swedish tradition
Do you want to do this? And I like oh that is so special
I mean you feel like it made me feel like the whole event was about me
I don't need three or four to like they're doing this for me. And so I think it's it's very sweet
that um
You know, like when you can give a nod to a birth parent. Yeah these parts of our time
And also when a birth parent can give a nod to a to a parent and just you know
Just be like gosh, I think you're like my grandma would do that all this time gosh
Your parents are just so wonderful for for letting you come here and spending money then to fly you out here
They just put me on a plane. See you later. My birth mom or grandma would pick me up
I wonder how I'd feel about that now. Yeah, yeah back when you could walk to the gate
It's wild. It's so different. Yeah, but I love that they did that. Yeah, I think it's pretty great
I love that that conversation was compassionate all around. Yeah. Yeah, and I know that's not always the case
But I think it's great that the author like really showed so many sides. Yeah
So many sides of that. Yeah
so
Eventually grace maya and Joaquin decided that they want to go find and visit their birth mom. How did that
pan out compared to how you were expecting like
Yeah, I know right like yeah, that was that was tricky. I was um, so they go they go and find they have an address because
Is it maya that finds a letter? Uh-huh
Every adopted kid like is always looking for evidence of letters, aren't they? I remember being a kid like looking through stuff
And they go my gosh, this is my birth certificate and like by the way, my name is spelled wrong
Whatever. Yeah, they had my parents had to get anyone because they wrote it down wrong or someone wrote it down wrong
but anyways besides that, um
so
Yeah, so maya finds a letter and um
she
She knows her birth mom's address. She knows where the like where the letter came from for some reason
Yeah, it was it was just like on the letter. And so that's their clue and when maya finally understands, oh
Remember how oh, I remember obviously this was a major theme grace does not tell her siblings that she placed a baby for adoption
Yeah, she's so ashamed. She was she was ashamed of it and she was being like bullied severely at school about it
And well and she'd heard how they were talking about their birth mom
She was like, yeah, they're gonna judge me exactly
She did not want like because they had already said those things about their birth mom and how they felt about it
She was terrified to say something because she wanted she wanted a relationship with them and she was scared
I think that they would push away from her like how could you do that? You know, so when they finally all get on board
So so grace finally tells her siblings well because of a because maya
maya's like
Personality, she steals grace's phone and finds like something on grace's phone
As a picture of the baby, I believe. Yeah, I just like who is this? Anyway, wow. Anyway, so
So no boundaries maya. Um, so finally like so grace is like she wasn't ready
That's you know, but she does share with her siblings that she just had a baby and she placed the baby for adoption
And um, I feel like they were so supportive of her like immediately which I thought was so great
And then because of that they're like, okay. Yeah, like we love you and we see how like this has affected you
Okay, we're gonna have compassion for our birth mom and now we're curious because and that changed it. Yeah, I loved how that changed it
Yeah, she's not just this like
Woman that quote gave us away
They look at their sister and say she is a full
Faceted woman and she had probably had all these feelings and all these experiences. So, um, yeah
So they finally all get on board together. Okay. Yes. Let's do this together. And one of them says it's all it's all or none
Like we're all together or not at all doing this. So I thought that was really great
And so they have this clue from this old letter that was like stashed away in some records like files of her of maya's parents
And you know walking gets this new gets a car from his foster family who wants to adopt him
He tells them no like I don't want to be adopted and then they keep exploring that but they still like extend so much love to him
Like no, we're not that's not conditional. Yeah, it's not conditional at all. They love his parents his foster parents
And so with this new car these teenagers, I mean think of all like the red tape they like just like fly through
You know these teenagers go finding those searching for their birth mom and they with his apples
They show up at the door
And a woman opens the door and she looks you can tell they're related. They look like the same features
And when she realizes who these three kids are she just is so like overcome with emotion and
She tells them the story and this was hard. It wasn't it wasn't the birth mom. It was their birth mom sister
so it was their aunt and the birth mom had passed away and
I just feel like
That is such
It could be such a true story. It was for one. I have a lot of sisters you guys
One of my sisters after she went looking for she was finally ready to find her birth mom and her birth mom had passed away
Literally nine months before and so that heartbreaking. Yeah, so um
so this was a really good like
Experience to share that like sometimes when you're ready, it's not quote too late because you had to be ready
You know to do that and that's what my sister has talked to me about. She's like no like I could not have done that before
Because she's I had to be ready for any outcome
and so when she was finally ready, she was quote like ready for
Her birth her birth mom to perhaps even have already passed away or have a heart like um
Like be going through some really hard things and not being able to have a relationship or you know, so
That was really moving that the that the siblings, you know, they had to deal with okay
Our birth mom's not here anymore
But the aunt shared all these beautiful stories and experiences with them
And gave gave them their story and sometimes a story is like a huge piece of the puzzle that makes such a big difference
Not sometimes it is a huge piece of the puzzle for a lot of adoptees that it just knowing the story
brings so much clarity and so much compassion understanding
You know and like it can help their self-worth
You know, so I feel like um, that was so important that
You know
That the that their new aunt that they discovered shared the story and as much as she possibly could remember
It was really neat to hear that as a reader like oh my gosh, like yeah that explains this and that explains that and
And like the most touching thing ever was you know
That wakine was so deeply loved like yes
He had felt discarded his whole life and to find out the the real story
And how she desperately clung onto wakine and didn't want to place him and just was trying so hard to do everything
She could still remain his parent
And that just like her trials overcame her
But the sweetest gift ever was you know
It's interesting maya grew up with all these pictures of herself as like a baby and like
Annoyed that she wasn't redheaded or whatever
And what we learned earlier in the book that wakine was really triggered at a girlfriend's house because
He saw all her baby pictures and he actually broke up with her the next day because he couldn't handle
That he felt like he wasn't good enough for his parents
That he felt like he wasn't good enough for his girlfriend because he didn't have a quote past
He didn't have like a story like she didn't have the baby pictures
So the part of the book that legitimately made me cry was when the three siblings after the aunt
The aunt gives the three siblings a key to a safe deposit box and said wakine
This is for you like your like my sister your birth mom left this for you
It's it's yours and they go to the safety deposit box and open it
And it's like a bunch of baby pictures of him with his birth mom and you could just see how much she loved him
And like I think it like really helped him
to like see
To see and then to know because of what he saw how much his birth mom loved him and how much she tried. Yeah, you know
Try
That was a nice like wrap up. Yeah. Yeah
but like those those those baby pictures actually got me thinking about like gosh, I hope every foster kid like
Gets to have like photographs because they're I mean and it's probably not very common for them to have photographs and such a hard system
Yeah, yeah, and it's almost like
I was like wow, like I feel like every social worker should like have a file of like
You know, yeah pictures of the kid like like that they can like save for them
So they if was it if everybody wants and I don't want their pictures of their youth. I don't know obviously
That's just like me like spitting an idea out
But I just thought that was like really like hey that's needed like yeah people need pictures of themselves growing up to like, I don't know
I don't know. That was just an idea I had but I just loved I loved how Joaquin got his um, and then Joaquin
like
Chooses to be adopted after he resolves the things that are yeah like heavy on his heart and he's ready
Yeah, when he's ready. Yeah
After he had a huge fight with the sponsor parents. Well, he he was fighting they were just like extending love
But he was like I can't handle this. This is too much
No, I I loved this book. I felt like it addressed so much. I was so impressed with it. Yeah. Yeah
So what part of the book did you most relate to? We're gonna have to start wrapping up. I'm gonna say I know right
But I do want to hear yeah what your favorite parts were what you related to most
Oh my gosh, I mean gosh I related to so many things just from observing my siblings and my own adoption story
um, so I
I'm having like a really hard time
You know what actually this is really interesting. I don't know if it's relating
But this is gonna sound bizarre you guys. I just felt I felt so normal growing up
I thought everyone had a birth bomb like I just you know what I mean? Like it was so normal for me
I never felt out of place and I think it's because I had an open adoption from the beginning and not just an open option
But like a really healthy
experience with my birth mom and like my grandparents and my aunts and uncles and like my half siblings my
cousins like I just
I just felt like oh, yeah, like my birth mom. She's just like she just knew like
Quote she just knew this was the best thing for me and like I
I found my family and she you know, it was like this I was always
always
Reac it was always recounted to me like the day I was born my parents got to be there my birth mom
Wanted my parents to hold me first like I just in my head. It always made me think of yeah, like this is like
My birth mom just knew and everything was great. Everything was fine. But like um, I did not I said I'm embarrassed. I'm actually
Mortified, I guess I never thought I
I didn't really think of I I've never thought of her pain
For placing me because all the things I've heard and seen and talked with
My people about with my daughter's story my birth mom included
It was like never this like
Gut wrenching heart wrenching experience
But I when I look at grace's experience and what she went through and thinking of her her baby
Um and like worrying about did she do the right thing?
Did she place you know, I guess it actually really just made me want to have a conversation with my birth mom
I'd be like hey like fyi you did an incredible job making me feel incredibly secure like she never put this weight on me of
This is the hardest thing
Um, I ever did and it was like I was like, you know, she never said anything like that. Um
But like I always felt loved by her whenever I'd see her and like we'd always have like a lovely time
Um, but she always did tell me that she knew that my parents
Were my parents. She's like, I just knew it like and she was in a relationship like
Um
She got in a relationship like kind of right before I was placed for adoption and he wanted he's like I want to adopt the baby
Like I am like I would be more than happy to be that baby's father and she's like I just knew
I just knew that you were supposed to be with your parents and and your siblings your sisters. And so I guess I never really thought about
Like the pain I I know my grandma was very
It was incredibly difficult for my grandma because she had told me her experience but like appropriately never making me feel bad
But um, but this book just it made me want to know more about how my birth mom felt at that time
And and I got to see a little glimpse of it when I was you know, when I look back at this video my birth mom
Came to my hometown for an interview when I was nine months old
This news station in seattle. I told you about this
They they flew my birth mom out to see me and they filmed the whole like reunion like video of like
You know, anyway, it's just um
So, I don't know. I guess I it'd be interesting to talk about with her her experience. How did you feel like did you have like?
any like
Post-traumatic feelings like did the things bubble up for you?
So I think that's I don't know if it was like I related to so many things from my own experience and from observing my
Loved ones my siblings experiences, but I would say this this book made me want to talk to my birth mom about her experience more
I love that. So I think that's probably my big takeaway. Yeah
That's beautiful. Thanks. All right. So overall do you recommend this book?
I definitely recommend this book interestingly that I didn't realize it was a ya book
It's considered a ya book. I think it's a good book
I didn't realize it was a ya book. It's considered a ya book and it won some like national award
I'm not surprised. It's yeah, it won an award
I would say like it's I might be like a little bit heavy for like I think like an older teen was great
Yeah, a younger teen. I would like I said wait. Yeah
um, but I
I realized later that this is meant to be a ya novel. Like wow, this is actually very engaging and very interesting and
Like I will not forget these stories. Yeah, I read so many books and
I can easily forget them but like I won't forget this one
She did such an incredible job of making me like very interested in these characters and their outcomes and
So I would highly recommend it. I loved it. So I would too. Well, and thanks for inviting me to read with you
Thank you so much. It was so fun. Yeah, I loved it. Thanks so much for being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me
Well, we want to give a big thanks to devony for meeting with lanette and having this discussion
About far from the tree so grateful for her and for her insights
As it is national adopts adoption month or adoptee awareness month
We just want to turn the attention to where it should be the voice of the adoptee. So thank you so much
Devon E for sharing we look forward to sharing a few more
Episodes coming up next week. We have an adoptee named. Sherilyn who also is previously on the podcast
One of the first adoptees that we interviewed she and lanette will have a discussion about the book orphan train
So put that on your list your listening list or go check it out of the library and read that
also just want to let you know that
the adoption guide for parents that lanette has
Written we've actually added five new chapters
and about 40 new pages of content to that and if you're interested in
In purchasing that you can currently buy it for 9.99 and that's available at open adoption project.org
and uh
Again, this is a resource that she has created for the adoption community
particularly those who are hoping to adopt who have recently adopted
That helps us focus on the adoptee and create an open adoption experience
that
Will set them up for a lot of success
So, uh go check that out all the proceeds go straight back into the podcast so that we can keep
producing so
Thank you so much for being a listener
We're grateful for you and hope that you can continue to be a force for good in educating the world about adoption
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project
You