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Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 107. We're The Nelsons. I'm Shaun.

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And I'm Lanette. And today we're really excited to share another adoptee perspective with you.

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Today we're talking with Lexi Condy. Now Lexi was adopted from foster care and she'll share more of her story.

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But we wanted to make sure to let you know this episode relates to another episode we had a while ago.

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It's the episode called Motherhood, Different But Equal. And it featured Amy Condy and Stephanie Doyle.

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And they are Lexi's mothers, her adoptive mother and her biological mother who are both her moms.

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And you'll hear more about their family dynamic in this episode. And so it's really fun to be able to hear from Lexi and hear about her experiences.

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Yeah. I'm glad that we actually get to kind of couple this episode with Kate and Riley.

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Lexi was also on the panel that we had earlier this year with the Utah Foster Care Symposium.

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And getting to do these episodes back to back was kind of neat for us because we got to reconnect with both of these great individuals.

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Her story is hard. It's challenging. And she has such a great perspective.

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And I think she helps us understand some really important aspects of adoption that we should consider.

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Yeah. Honestly, every time I talk with Lexi, I feel like I learn more. And she's a wonderful teacher.

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And we're really humbled and honored that she gave us her time and shares these vulnerable and hard experiences with us and teaches us.

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So we hope you enjoy this episode and enjoy learning from Lexi.

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And at the end of our discussion with her, we'll be back to just share a couple more thoughts.

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We are here on the podcast with Lexi Kondy. Lexi, thank you so much for joining us.

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Thank you for having me.

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Yeah, we're really excited to hear from you and hear your thoughts and perspectives today.

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So to start off, can you tell us a bit about who you are?

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I'm a 26-year-old female. I'm a welder.

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I went to school to get welding done after a couple years of just kind of some odd jobs and was a correctional officer for a couple years.

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And then finally just decided I wanted a job that I need to make me happy and finally turned my life around to making myself more happy.

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And yeah, that's about it. I went from, you know, kind of a smaller family than what most people here in Utah have.

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It was just me and my older brother and then my little brother came a little later.

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So you have a connection to adoption. We've had your mothers both on our podcast before and really loved hearing from them.

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And so we're really excited to hear from you and hear your experiences now.

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Do you want to tell us whatever you'd like to share about your adoption story?

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So it all kind of started when I was adopted at the age of eight with my older brother.

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Him and I were adopted by his dad, Reid Condy. And so we were adopted by Amy Condy and Reid Condy.

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And by that point, I mean, I'm eight, he's almost 10 or he is 10 by that point, almost 11.

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We're both kind of old enough to understand that, you know, they're not our biological parents in all honesty.

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In a lot of ways, they were strangers, at least to me, they were more strangers, not so much to him because he had his dad.

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And so they collectively decided that at that point, after a while of talking to each other,

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that they would open the adoption towards our biological mother who was in prison, Stephanie.

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It was kind of a really hard decision for them to make it first because there is that conflict of this woman has hurt them and all that had happened in that.

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And so I think after seeing that we we needed her at the end of the day, but we also needed them.

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They they understood that they couldn't do it anymore.

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They had started by saying, you know, that she was just sick. She was just trying to get better.

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And unfortunately, at that age, we did understand what death was.

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And so we just kind of figured if she's not going to get better, is she going to die?

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And we had finally came up and we had asked, you know, when is our mom going to die?

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Mainly my older brother asked that one.

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And that's when they kind of collectively came together and were like, you know, we can't we can't lie to them.

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We we need to be honest. And so they sat us down and they're like, you know, your mom did some bad things.

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And she's she's in trouble.

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And so with that kind of started the open communication within the family as well as open communication with Stephanie while she was in prison.

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I think that both Reid and Amy understood that Tyler and I needed to see that our mom was OK.

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And I remember that Amy had we were running late and the jail was about to close.

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The visitation hours.

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And so Amy was driving down the freeway, going like 100 miles an hour.

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She could have over exaggerated it, but for stories sake, I don't think she was.

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And we made it to go visit our mom and we saw that she was OK.

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And I think that that was a really impactful moment to see that she's not sick, she's not dying, but she is in trouble and she did do bad things.

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And she's getting better.

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And so with that, it kind of we kind of built from there.

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It started with Amy very openly communicating with Stephanie alone.

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Reid and Amy, both talking to Stephanie without us around calling on the phone via.

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I want to say letters, if I remember correctly, letters.

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I know we had letters from Stephanie, but I do not remember if Amy and Reid did.

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OK, but they kept that communication open to see that she was getting better.

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And so with that, it opened up a whole new world of we got back in contact with our grandmother who had originally taken us in at the beginning of it.

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But she unfortunately got ill and wasn't able to keep us.

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So you were able to start connecting more with your biological family?

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Yes, we had attempted to with my biological father.

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And it just. He didn't care.

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He didn't want it.

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There was multiple attempts and then he would just kind of disappear.

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He'd come back into my life and then he'd disappear.

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Lots of broken promises, lots of broken hearts.

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It's hard.

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But I think what helped the most about it, though, was in all honesty, I wouldn't have ever taken back having that bad part of it, too, because having knowing that I wasn't wanted was a big fear.

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Like that big fear of I wasn't wanted, they hate me, they gave me up.

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But then to find out in some aspect, it was a little true.

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But I went to a family that loved me and that wanted me.

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And so that I think had such a big impact on how I ended up seeing my adoptive family a little later.

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And.

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I don't hate my biological dad.

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I did for a long time, but hate is like holding a hot coal.

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I was the only one getting burned in the end.

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And so I learned to kind of cope with that through having my adoptive family support me.

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There were a lot of trials.

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There were a lot of trials, especially like Stephanie finally got out of prison.

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And we were doing visitations and it went to like overnight visitations.

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And they were really, really great.

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But unfortunately, when I turned, I want to say 12, 11 or 12, I had suffered a traumatic brain injury.

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When I was writing a ripstick down the road, I had fallen, I'd got a rock lodged in my head, was rushed to the hospital and I lost a lot of memory to it.

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During that time, I lost a lot of my sixth grade memory and ended up it ended up really triggering some mental health disorders at that time.

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And it caused a lot of problems and discord in my adoptive family.

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It was it was really hard because it was already hard enough.

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You go into adoption not thinking about just how traumatized a child is sometimes and how much work it is going to be.

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It's worth it in the end, but it is a lot of work and it's really hard.

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And it ended up becoming I was a danger to everybody.

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I was an angel to myself.

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I was a danger to others.

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I didn't know what was going on.

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I was scared and then puberty was hitting along with it. So that's a whole issue in itself.

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And I ended up getting put back into the system and put into a group home.

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And unfortunately, during that group home where they were supposed to care and protect you, it was a group home specifically for girls.

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And one of the friends of the owner took advantage of that, that there were girls there and specifically me and one of the other girls in there.

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And so we were abruptly taken out, which was really good.

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But with that came some other trauma and other heartache.

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But I ended up coming home to open arms from it was it was a whole unity of both my biological family and my adoptive family that I had never seen before.

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I had seen them get together and you know, love each other.

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But I think knowing that they were there for me during that time of need, and they unified everything was gone between them, all of their problems between each other was gone during those moments to help me.

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Wow.

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That's awful but also so beautiful that they were able to come together and rally around you after that horrible incident.

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It was a shocking moment because it's, I don't know how to explain just how beautiful that tragedy could be.

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Because it was a really dark time but then to see them come out was just like seeing stars come out during a nighttime.

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And so they helped me build that strength back and come back from that and I actually ended up a couple months back or a year ago. I faced him for the second time, and I told him everything that was in my heart, and I didn't hold back and it was the best feeling ever,

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and I had my adoptive adoptive mom and biological mom there.

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And my adoptive mom took me to that court hearing, and she was there for me through it all.

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And I came home to open arms and how was it Are you okay. You need anything.

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And so to still have that unity years later was really eye opening.

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Wow. So that unity has persisted you've felt that.

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Definitely on and off through. I mean, I don't say off like they turn it off and ignore me type of thing but definitely there are, you know, there are moments where it shines, where something's brought back up or a heartache or tragedies brought up and you just see you see that light again.

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Wow. Do you mind sharing about you have some younger siblings who were not adopted by your adoptive parents right. Yes, so closed adoption.

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So that was the open adoption side of like positive and negatives that that that I had the closed adoption. I had two younger sisters that are twins.

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And they were, in all honesty, my older brother and I made sure that they ate before us, even if it meant that we were hungry we protected them from physical abuse we everything we did what we could at the age of, you know, five and three

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to protect them.

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Just because you know, they were, they were our everything at that moment. Yeah. And then the foster care system came in and took us, and they got separated.

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And we actually knew who took them. But due to Utah's closed adoption laws.

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We were forced to not see them.

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And once that adoption was done that was done. I didn't hear from them until they were 18.

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And I had to reach out and find them, and it was really heartbreaking to lose like I lost everything I lost all those years.

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All that fighting that I did for them all that.

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It's gone, and they don't even remember. They don't know.

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They don't know that we existed, they barely knew that we existed and that was heartbreaking because we didn't, we didn't do anything, the children didn't hurt the children.

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And just because it's okay to close it.

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We got separated and forced and punished.

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And that was hard. That was a really, really hard thing to do. And it's something that I still struggle with because that I will never have that sisterly bond.

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Because of that, my brother really struggles with being able to connect.

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They I mean they're amazing women.

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I love them dearly.

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And it is, I guess we went into it thinking it was going to be the same as when we were three and five.

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Yeah.

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But in reality they're 18, they're adults.

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They've lived their life, you know, we missed a lot of their firsts. It wasn't what we thought. And I mean it wasn't bad. It's still beautiful.

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I'm happy to have them in my life, but it was still, I think, the most traumatizing thing when it came down to any of that that's happened is the constant questions.

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Are they alive? Are they okay? Who are they? What are they? Are they being treated well? Are they being fed?

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Just making sure that they are simply alive was the hardest thing and not knowing.

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We occasionally got a picture like once or twice. I remember twice. There could have been a third or fourth, but I remember twice the pictures and to me that's just...

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I don't know if it was a good faith, but it felt like a punch in the face.

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Because the picture's not them.

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It's not them. And I didn't hurt them. I didn't do anything wrong. And I lost them.

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So heartbreaking.

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So I feel like there are so many ways that it sounds like these experiences you've had with foster care and adoption have shaped your life.

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How do you feel like what stands out to you as ways that it's shaped your life?

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I think it has made me more emotionally aware as a person.

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I definitely am, especially towards children. Children is a big one for me. Like a child crying in public, my head kind of snaps towards him.

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And I just want to make sure, you know, are you okay? It's okay. You're safe. I promise you're safe.

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I want to be that person that I would have felt safe with as a kid.

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So it sounds like if there was one thing that you would want other people to know or understand about adopting experiences, what stands out to you there?

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What would you want people to know or understand?

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I think it's going to help for you and the child right off the bat, even before, even before adopting, understand that it does not matter if they are an infant being adopted, if they're eight, if they're three, if they're 10, if they're 20, there's trauma.

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And it's going to be traumatic for you as well.

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In that chaos and in that darkness, there's also this beautiful light and there's this beautiful connection that you guys can make by empathizing and loving with those children.

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What I say, get help.

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I love that. Yeah. Relying on others to help and not trying to do it all.

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Therapy. Therapy is a big one. People don't, they're scared to ask for that therapy at the beginning because it's like, oh, I should handle it. But it's no, it's okay. It's hard. It's scary.

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I love that.

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So you talked about how your adoptive and biological parents were able to find this balance of, especially your adoptive parents, I guess, having this open, honest communication about your birth mom when she was struggling, but also still being compassionate

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and loving. I feel like that's probably a really hard balance for a lot of adoptive parents to wrap their heads around. Do you have any thoughts on how they did that, how others could approach that in a way that is loving and compassionate while also being honest?

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That is a hard one. I know that later in life, my adoptive mom had expressed to me that it was really hard for her to accept the quote, as she would say when it was first to herself, not to us children, it was the other mother.

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And especially the mom that hurt the children. It was a really hard thing to accept that I'm loving these children. Why am I not enough? And it's not that she wasn't enough because she's bad or terrible. It's she's not enough because that's the reality of it. We knew, we knew.

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And it's, and it's, I don't mean that she's not enough in a mean way.

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But no, that's something that seems to stand out from so many stories that I hear, where

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you have two mothers, right? And so you need them both. Like it's not saying anything bad about one or the other, but they're both part of you, and of course you would need them both.

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Well, and even in learning like the bad parts of my biological dad, even learning all of that, there, it was, it was missing puzzle pieces, and as much as my adoptive dad tried to fill those pieces, he wasn't enough at that time, it was something I had to put together.

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He couldn't give me those pieces. At the end of the day, I had to make those pieces myself, and I had to put them in place. I just needed his support through it, and his compassion, and that's a hard thing because he had to watch as my biological dad hurt me over and over.

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But he had to just support me and tell me, you know, if you want to see him again, it's okay, I'll be here for you. I have open arms for you.

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And so I think, I think in communicating and admitting to themselves so that it's hard.

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But at the end of the day, they can only hand us the tools, they can't fix the problem, is, is the best reality that people need to come to is, you can't fix it for them, you can give them the tools, but you can't fix it for them, you have to, you have to let them do it.

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That's so beautifully said.

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So what do you think some of the unique challenges are that you have faced as an adoptee?

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Oh man, my brother could tattle on me to both parents, so I'd get in trouble twice.

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Because I think people not understanding was a big thing.

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People not understanding on a lot of sides of like, just because I am genetically related to that person doesn't mean that I am that person.

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At the same time as people, they, I still think they struggle with it like my dad's side of the family, my adoptive dad's side of the family and then my adoptive mom's side of the family.

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I think they struggle with why do you let them keep in contact.

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But then I noticed that on my biological side, it's they're thankful. And, you know, they don't ask those questions but I see where the adoptive side comes from because they're not as close, like they don't get to see that, that side of when we are connecting with them, it's not as intermingled.

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Okay, so they're not seeing like the benefits and the beautiful relationships and support. Right. Yeah.

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And then I think outside teachers not understanding the struggles, other students not understanding the struggles schools not understanding the struggle. I struggled heavily in school, and I was always labeled as this terrible kid the bad kid.

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And in reality I, I did have special needs I needed some extra help I had severe ADHD. I, I ended up going from a kid that was failing to finally sitting down with my adoptive mom and fighting with her for a little bit verbally, not physically.

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And finally came to the conclusion that I was going to go to landmark, which was the quote bad kids school, it was the school that bad kids went to. And when I went there I went from a kid that failed every class to a 4.0 GPA, I graduated early.

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I was the first in many generations to do that, that I'm aware of at least.

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And first of my siblings to do that.

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And it just went to show that like those teachers there was less students they had more time for me they treated me like a person I wasn't a number that just went through the system I wasn't the bad kid I was like see.

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I had a name.

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That's amazing and they gave you the tools that you needed it sounds like you weren't getting those tools before. Absolutely, I went from missing 180 days of school to three.

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And it was for a funeral.

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So, to go from an F student that was breaking down and not knowing what was wrong with me to a 4.0 student that was engaged that love school that wanted to be there.

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showed a lot, and a lot of the school systems don't understand the challenges behind adoption and adoptees.

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And that it will affect you, you academically whatever's happening at home affects you academically too.

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Absolutely. So, what are some of those misconceptions you've talked a little about these misconceptions or stereotypes about adoption and about being an adoptee. What do you wish people understood better.

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You're not them.

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I think the worst thing that got thrown in my face is you're going to end up just like them.

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And it was hurtful, because they're only looking at the genetic side of things and at the end of the day like Stephanie, to me, is is a hero.

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She's 20 years sober.

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As of last year she's 20 years sober.

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She's, she's starting to work at the jail as a therapist she just got her master's degree she just graduated last month, like.

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She went from a felon that couldn't figure it out that was on drugs that had four kids under the age of five to the amazing woman she is now getting her master's degree she has another son, I have a little brother.

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He's 13 now she's kept him. And I live with her currently.

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And she's, she can turn it around, they can turn it around and they can be an inspiration and a better person for the kids that they hurt later.

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I love that so much and as someone who knows your mom Stephanie, she is so amazing.

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She really is an incredible person and I think people who haven't struggled with addiction or who haven't seen that up close with someone they love don't understand how deeply that can change and affect someone.

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And what a big deal, it is to become sober after such a huge struggle and stay sober. Yes, that's amazing. So looking at your experience, how do you feel like it has influenced your relationships and your sense of identity.

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I think having the open adoption aspect of things actually was a big benefit to my sense of identity.

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Especially because I do feel like your physical well being also has an effect on your identity internally as well, such as even just like health conditions.

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And due to being able to see both sides I was able to find out you know that some of the mental health issues that I had prior were you know it's normal and this is how we can help with it.

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People were there to help with the problem and not just say what is wrong with you, why can't you fix this.

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Because from an outside perspective they're not seeing that it is genetic.

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And that there are ways to fix it but sometimes you might need a helping hand and if it's coming from somebody that doesn't understand it, they don't know how to help and that's okay to admit, but I think that that helped with a lot of those questions of like what is wrong with me and then to then be told that is that is unfortunately a common thing in our family.

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However, there's medications that can help there's doctors that can help there's therapies that can help these are ways that I've, I've done to help I've done, you know, all these other things and being able to know that you are understood.

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I think helped a lot with that identity.

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And I'm sorry what was the second part of the question.

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So relationships and sense of identity, how is it influenced relationships and identity.

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I think, I think with relationships inside of the family.

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It's been great.

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I think it's helped with a lot of the communication, I have very much enjoyed that I could go to one parent to talk about the other parent.

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Not even just in a negative way, but in any way, like you know teenage angst. Man I hate my mom today. Oh man I hate my dad today, but be able to go to them and they, they can you know empathize but they can also be like you know that is still your parent,

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and that's coming from my biological mom telling me that that my adoptive mom is still my parent, and vice versa and they had each other's backs in a lot of ways, and it was very.

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I think it was helpful, it wasn't them pitting each other against each other.

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They they were very, they had each other's backs on a lot of parenting things, and if they felt like there was something that might not be appropriate.

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Parenting wise, they would very openly communicate with each other of like hey maybe she shouldn't be grounded for this or maybe she should be or.

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So I think that that was very helpful with the relationships in the family because it wasn't pitting. It wasn't, they weren't talking garbage about each other wasn't all these hateful things.

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It was very loving and together.

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That's amazing and so, do you feel like that helped you feel more secure and your belonging in both of your families.

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I think at the end of the day, I knew I had a home, and I think that was super important especially from being foster care kid of any sort like watching your mom get taken away not knowing what's next going to grandma who got sick not knowing where to go next.

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I think having that security that I knew, no matter if I was in a fight with mom, one day, I could go to mom.

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I always knew that I had at the end of the day, or even if I wasn't fighting I just knew I had a home.

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And that was something that was a big struggle internally growing up was like, what is home.

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And home is just home is where the people love you, and where you feel safe and where you feel loved. And even if that's by yourself. That's home but home is just where you're wanted and loved.

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Beautiful. So, you talked a bit about how your adoptive family wasn't really sure how to help with that trauma that you experienced from the traumatic brain injury, and that really challenging period.

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Do you have any advice for what you think adoptive parents could do when they're feeling overwhelmed when they don't feel like they know how to help or what to do.

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Get therapy.

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Get therapy, all sorts of therapy, ask doctors, I think at that time.

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I want to say that at that time traumatic brain injuries weren't as prevalent as they are now, because at that time, it was just simply told to me.

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Oh, your concussion might have caused bipolar, but then to find out later.

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Oh no, it, it caused so much more there was so much more than just, you know, it was, it was a traumatic brain injury.

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It can't just simply be a little hit and all of a sudden you have bipolar, it was it was a severe hit to my brain. I had lost memories it had hit my frontal lobe, or it had hit the back lobe really hard.

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You know it had a lot more effects than just simply that it had some emotional effects. And that was something that wasn't found out until later by other doctors.

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And so, it is a lot more known now, but even then, I think.

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Get second opinions, third opinions too, because I think that that was another really hard aspect is that because it wasn't so well known, it was first doctor, what they said was okay.

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Medication wasn't really well known then don't be afraid to if your child is struggling. If they need medication, it's you're not zombifying them you're not, you know, you're not guinea pigging them is a big fear I know people have.

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But I think you need to listen to what they say, the medication does not what you see what they say is the reality of it.

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But getting help and not putting them back in the system, not putting them in the group homes, even if they are a danger to themselves and others, there are other avenues than putting them back into the system or back into those group homes.

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I even say psych words are safer.

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I just I genuinely do not believe that group homes are designed to rehabilitate and actually help.

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It is kind of just you're another number get out and go.

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And if it were just my story to back it up. That's one thing, but there are there are dozens and dozens of stories of group homes just not not being enough they get people that barely pass a background check that go into these places that have no idea, no background and treating children

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that have special needs now, nothing. It's just you could be an 18 year old that has a clean background and be go and go work in these homes, and it's not safe.

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So terrible.

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So I really appreciate these thoughts, as we talked about how adoptive parents can better support adoptees.

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So, I love these thoughts on therapy, not being afraid to ask for help. Do you have any other thoughts on how we can offer support for adoptees.

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Be open with them, admit.

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I mean, I don't go to a three year old and say you're too hard to deal with, but admit to yourself and admit to them in an appropriate way that you need to take a step back.

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Because there are going to be points where you want to explode, where you want to lose it.

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And it's okay to admit it, and it's okay to take a step back and just say hey, I can't, I can't right now, because it's hard. It is so hard. It's so worth it.

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I know that I make it sound terrible and awful, but it is hard and a lot of people get into adoption and think it's going to be rainbows and sunshine and they're saving these children and these children are going to just be okay, but they're hurt.

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They're not broken and I hate when people say that they're broken. They're not broken.

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But they are hurt. They are traumatized and they do need help.

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And so I think being able to admit that sometimes it might be too hard for you and you take your step back is okay.

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Your moms are this amazing example to me of, like, they told me it was hard to believe because you can tell they're like the best of friends now, but they told me that they didn't like each other at first and I was like, really because there's so much love between them and it's so genuine and so palpable.

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It's just amazing to see them.

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And it's inspiring. It really is because you don't. You see the people that are just like, you know, I'm going to hate them forever. And in reality, give them a chance. They're human too.

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And a lot of the time you just realize that that parent just made a mistake and that mistake hurt people. Absolutely. But it's not unfixable.

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Yeah. Well, and when you're able to just expand this village that's there to support a child, I think that's such a beautiful thing instead of taking away from the village, right? Like adding.

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Right. And why not? If it helps the child and helps you, why not continue the village? You can add to the village as much as you want.

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But you can only take away so much. So at that point, why not just expand? Why not just continue? I want to thank every foster parent that's out there for the kids.

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Even if they're just fostering, I don't think they realize like if they're a good foster home and they actually do, you know, love those children and they do it for the children that they do make such an impact on those children.

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And then the adoptees, the fosters that go to adoptees, all of them are you might not be changing the world itself and fixing the world, but you are changing that child's world when you are the person they can come to.

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And you do impact them more than you think. And I do want to thank all of the foster parents and adoptive parents that are doing it for the kids and helping them.

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So beautiful. Lexi, I love talking to you. I really appreciate you taking time to be with us today.

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I really appreciate all that you're doing. It really is so important and I'm so glad to see somebody like you going out and actually fighting that fight. It's so needed.

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Thank you so much. Well, I couldn't do it without you. So thank you.

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Well, a sincere thank you to Lexi. We're so grateful that she was able to connect with us again and have this conversation. We look forward to some future collaboration conversation that we'll likely have in the coming year.

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Again, we're just so grateful for her. Yeah, really such a really big blessing to be able to talk with Lexi.

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And I hope that you've had the chance to listen to Amy and Stephanie's episode as well. I feel like pairing these together and learning from their families experiences from all of these different perspectives is so valuable.

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Yeah, I imagine as a listener, you're walking away with a lot of things that Lexi shared, some takeaways, just one or two that maybe I'll share before we wrap up.

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One is adoption, foster care needs to be so child-centric. And we've talked about this a lot on the podcast in the past, but just the way that she highlighted these kids, our kids, these adopted children, these foster children need extra support and extra love.

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And there is some level of trauma, some level of hurt. And as parents, as connections to those individuals in our lives, we need to be aware that they may have some complex feelings around their adoption and they may have some trauma or hurt that we need to help them with.

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Absolutely. And I feel like that's something that Amy and Stephanie talked about really well too. Just the challenges, right, of keeping your relationships focused on your child and their well-being.

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It can be hard, but they really drive in how important that is to keep your child at the center of why you're doing what you're doing, why we have these relationships and seeing how that enriched Lexi's life and helped her.

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Even though I'm sure there were times where it was hard for both her adoptive and biological parents, they were able to collaborate and work together and come together to help her and support her.

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And I just think that's such a beautiful reminder of what we are hoping for and striving for.

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Yeah, the other takeaway I'm having is somewhat around communicative adoption. Right in the beginning, after her and her biological half-brother were adopted, the story that was being told then was that their mom was sick.

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And telling that not the complete truth, or not the whole story, made it difficult. And both her adoptive parents and birth mom realized that they needed to be more forthright.

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And for me, it just highlights the importance of making sure that our kids know their stories, that adoptees know their experience, obviously in age-appropriate ways, but that we have open dialogue and conversations around their stories and their experiences.

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Yeah, communicative openness is so important in adoption. It's why we keep talking about it, because when you have that foundation of honesty, that's really where you're going to be able to build a stronger relationship.

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And I feel like it's important to remember you want honesty, but you also want compassion. And I feel like Lexi's adoptive parents did a good job of that.

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It sounds like they were able to talk about, yes, your mother is experiencing these hard things, but it wasn't in a way that was derogatory.

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But it was honest and compassionate. And so finding that balance, I think, is so important as adoptive parents.

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I think we could keep going on takeaways from Lexi, but we're just so grateful again for her. Grateful to you, our listeners, and hope that you are being enriched by the episodes that we share with you.

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We will be back soon with another episode, and thanks so much for being here.

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Thank you.