1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,640 Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,760 This is episode 106. 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:06,720 We're the Nelsons. I'm Lanette. 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,280 I'm Shaun. In today's episode, 5 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,520 I share an interview that I conducted with Kaden Riley. 6 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,720 Kaden's great. Lanette and I met him in person back in April when we 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,040 led a panel discussion at the Utah Foster Care Annual Symposium. 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:27,880 He was one of four adult adoptees or those who had been in foster care, 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,320 that shared their experience, particularly with openness during that conversation. 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,520 But we loved connecting with him. 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,760 Such a great guy and we feel like his story is going to be impactful to you. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Yeah, we're really grateful for his willingness to share and teach us today. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,720 He is really a wonderful person, has a great light to him, 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,560 and we're really, really so thankful that we had the opportunity to connect with him, 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,800 and now that we can share his experience with you guys. 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,640 So as an adult adoptee who is placed into foster care as an infant, 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,360 we hope that this episode teaches you and helps you learn. 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:11,720 All right. Well, we are now on the podcast with Kaden Riley. 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,400 Kaden, thank you so much for being with us. 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,200 Thank you for having me. 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,440 You bet. To our audience that's listening, 22 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,800 we met Kaden just over a month ago actually when we 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,560 presented at the Utah Foster Care Symposium, 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,160 the annual symposium that they do. 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,440 Lanette and I were asked to facilitate or lead 26 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:38,000 a panel discussion of adult adoptees or those who had been in foster care. 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,120 Kaden was one of the four people that we interviewed. 28 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,240 We were so impressed by him. 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,240 We wanted to bring him onto the podcast to share his experiences. 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,040 Sorry, I think there's a lot we can learn. 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,840 Thank you again for being with us, Kaden. 32 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,480 We're going to turn the time to you just to share your experience and your story. 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:55,920 There's a lot to it. 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,440 Please just help us understand what your lived experience has been. 35 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Yeah, of course. Well, thanks again for having me. 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,800 I think it's going to be exciting to talk about all of this and my story. 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,040 But yeah, I would say my story is pretty unique. 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,720 I think from the very beginning, 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 there's a lot of different caveats to it. 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,080 It really all just starts at birth. 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,080 I was placed for adoption immediately at birth. 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:28,840 My biological mother had me and I was born with addicted to meth, 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,560 marijuana, heroin, and cocaine. 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,040 Then I spent the next 10 days in the NICU in Salt Lake City. 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:46,200 The hospital called DCFS and DCFS contacted some foster parents. 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,680 Then about the second day, these foster parents came and they really came to 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,480 the hospital and got to know me and hold me and carry me. 48 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,080 Then about 10 days later, 49 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,440 I was officially able to go home with them. 50 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,720 That's really where my story began. 51 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:08,320 My mom was about 21 when I was born and then my dad was actually 65 when I was born. 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,360 That was a huge complete age gap. 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,400 Unfortunately, my dad wasn't really able to step into the picture at the time, 54 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,320 but I do remember, well, 55 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,680 I don't remember, but people telling me that I had some visits with him 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,600 and that went really great. 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,360 I was basically with these foster parents and this family was amazing. 58 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,920 I was actually the youngest of seven siblings. 59 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:32,440 Five of us were adopted, 60 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,640 the two oldest were not adopted. 61 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:40,400 Already, these foster parents were familiar with the foster care process. 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,360 It took about seven months to a year and then I was officially adopted by them. 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,840 I was raised in Ogden, 64 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,720 Utah up until about five years old. 65 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,680 Then after five, I moved down to St. George and then that's where I was raised. 66 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,560 Like I said, being the youngest of seven siblings, 67 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,080 it was really unique. 68 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,880 There is a huge age gap with that as well. 69 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,640 My oldest sibling is 20 years older than me. 70 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:15,320 It was funny because he came home from his LDS mission and he had a new brother. 71 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,800 It was just a weird dynamic there from the start, 72 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,480 but things turned out to really work well. 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,240 Like I said, there's five of us that were adopted. 74 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,400 I was really close to my two sisters just above age and me. 75 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:34,080 They are half siblings and they're also transracial adoptees. 76 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,520 My dad's African-American and then my mom's Hispanic, 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,640 and then my two sisters, 78 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,680 their mom's black and then their dad's Hispanic. 79 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:48,000 That was also another part of my adoption story that I really connected with. 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,720 Being able to connect with those siblings, 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,960 I think was a really detrimental part of my experience that you'll hear later on. 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,400 Anyways, but growing up in St. George, 83 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,960 it was honestly, it was great. 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,560 My dad traveled for work and I was able to really go to different states 85 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,880 and have all these other experiences that I think at 86 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,480 a young age really shaped my growth in a lot of ways. 87 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:17,160 Being able to be placed outside of the small community of Southern Utah, 88 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,880 I think was really amazing. 89 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,440 A little couple of stories when it came to traveling. 90 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,360 I was a part of the transracial families. 91 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,640 One of the states we went to was Missouri, 92 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,880 Tennessee, so the South. 93 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,600 I remember my family getting a bunch of stairs because they're like, 94 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,600 what are these parents doing with these brown children? 95 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,960 It was just a weird dynamic there, 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,360 but it turned out to work. 97 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,160 Growing up in St. George was really great and everything. 98 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:55,280 But I think around the age of eight, 99 00:05:55,280 --> 00:06:00,320 I really started to struggle a little bit with my identity. 100 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,080 I think that's the age that you really as you start 101 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,200 realizing that you look a little different than other people. 102 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,640 I think that's when I was really able to come into my identity and see that, 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,840 I don't look like my parents, 104 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:14,560 I don't look like most of my other family members, 105 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,200 like what is this? 106 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,640 I always knew that I was adopted. 107 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,160 My parents never kept it a secret, 108 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,160 not that they really could. 109 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:21,520 But- 110 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,160 Hard to keep that secret. 111 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,640 Exactly. Pretty hard to keep it a secret. 112 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:31,880 I was really struggling with that. 113 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,760 I pushed that off to the side and I was like, 114 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,800 I don't really want to explore that at this time. 115 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,720 Then around the age of 11, 116 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,640 12 is when it really started to hit me. 117 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,640 Let me back up a little bit actually. 118 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:44,360 No, you're good. 119 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,520 So before it started to really hit me really bad, 120 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,680 like I said, things were going pretty good. 121 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,240 My parents had me playing football, 122 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,800 they had me playing soccer, 123 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,560 and then they actually had me attend this charter school, 124 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,200 which was a performing arts school out in Ivins. 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,280 I was really able to thrive there because I had 126 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,560 a passion for singing and music. 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,920 This school was really helping me 128 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,880 to explore those ideas and passions in my life. 129 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,560 I would say I was pretty popular. 130 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,800 I was very outgoing. 131 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,760 I was very much doing all these things 132 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,480 that I was passionate about. 133 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,120 Now, going back to when I started to struggle. 134 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,640 Started struggling around the age of 12 135 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,600 and fell into a deep depression, 136 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,200 struggle with my identity and skipping school. 137 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,800 My parents felt like they had no other option 138 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,520 than to put me on medication and have me go see a therapist. 139 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,600 For the first time, I was able to go to therapy 140 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,000 and get my medication. 141 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,200 Hopefully, that would help. 142 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,920 You'd think that all of these things would help me 143 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,320 adjust to dealing with being adopted and all those things, 144 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,080 but come to find out, 145 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,880 unfortunately, things got worse and worse and worse. 146 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,360 Around that age, my parents just felt like they had no other option, 147 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,840 fortunately, and then I was placed into a mental health facility. 148 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:14,120 This facility was really unique just because it was a pretty restrictive 149 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:19,160 institution that really was locked down 150 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,840 and really not a great environment for me, unfortunately. 151 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,480 Then I spent the next seven months in that program. 152 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,840 Then I came home from that program, 153 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,040 obviously living on a high rate. 154 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,240 I think when you're in such an intensive facility, 155 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,080 therapy, group therapy, highly medicated, 156 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,200 you're obviously going to thrive. 157 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,320 For the next couple of months, 158 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,680 I was placed back into that performing arts school, 159 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:46,240 back into football and all of that stuff. 160 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,280 But then once again, a couple of months later, 161 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,400 I was hit with another set of depression and anxiety. 162 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,960 But this time, it came with more complex trauma 163 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,120 because I didn't really address some of the things that went down in this program. 164 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,200 I was placed into another program for another seven months. 165 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,160 Then at the end of that program, 166 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:15,840 I reached out via Facebook on a home visit, I think, 167 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:21,840 and messaged one of my biological sisters on my mom's or my dad's side. 168 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,640 I haven't met them before because my adoption was closed. 169 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,680 I've seen pictures of my biological father and family members, 170 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,440 but I had never actually met them. 171 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,880 I reached out to her and I sent a picture of myself awkwardly. 172 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,920 I was like, I think I'm your brother. 173 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,120 This is Kaden, this is your brother, whatever. 174 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,240 I'd love to meet you. 175 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,880 I was put back in this program. 176 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,640 Then at the tail end of this program, 177 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,320 I was in a therapy session with my parents and everybody. 178 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,000 They're like, Kaden, 179 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,560 we want to inform you about something. 180 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,320 I was thinking, oh no, 181 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,000 they found something that I was doing that wasn't appropriate or something. 182 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,240 But I was shocked to find out that my sister did reach back out to my parents, 183 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,160 and they said that my biological father was on his deathbed, 184 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,200 and if they could find it in her heart to let me see him before he passed away. 185 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,040 I immediately began bawling, 186 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,800 crying because that was honestly the last thing that I could have expected them to say. 187 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:27,880 All of those emotions growing up as a young African-American male in 188 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,960 Southern Utah and really yearning for that relationship with 189 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,680 my father that I thought maybe one day once I turn 18, I could have. 190 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:40,600 The fact that he was on his deathbed was really hard for me. 191 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,120 How old were you at the time? 192 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,000 Yeah, I was about 15 years old. 193 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,800 I was 15 at the time. 194 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,680 Moving forward, my parents did find it in their hearts to allow me to see him. 195 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,240 In 2017, at the age of 15, 196 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,040 I went with my parents and one of my adoptive sisters. 197 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,120 We went and saw him at a resting home in Ogden, Utah. 198 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:10,600 To my surprise, there was a bunch of other family members, cousins, aunts, 199 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:11,960 uncles there as well. 200 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:19,560 I think that moment hit me that I knew that I might not get 201 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:24,160 that happy ending of being able to gain this huge relationship with him. 202 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,240 I spent the next hours with him at this facility, 203 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,160 getting to know him, talking to him. 204 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:37,320 It was just a really great experience for several reasons, obviously, 205 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,680 but I think as cliche as it sounds, 206 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:44,120 just looking at him and looking at our faces and seeing the similarities 207 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,160 and what we look like and our mannerisms and asking stupid questions like, 208 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,000 where are you from or what's your favorite color, 209 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,440 which I think are all things that might come so easy to the general population. 210 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,880 But I think to people that experience foster care or being adopted, 211 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,320 those are all questions that we would love to have. 212 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,760 I think being able to connect that way was really eye-opening. 213 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Then getting to learn that a lot of my family on that side also were musicians 214 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,200 and singers and athletes, 215 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,000 I think was also just a reinstatement to me that I am part of them 216 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,760 and I do have that literally running through my blood, 217 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,480 I think was really, really cool. 218 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,560 At the end of this program, system, this residential program, 219 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,320 I got a phone call from this guy. 220 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:31,560 Well, actually not a phone call, 221 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,520 he actually came in person and introduced himself to me. 222 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,520 He introduced himself to me as my DSFS caseworker. 223 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,960 At the time, I didn't really know what that meant. 224 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,560 But at the age of 15, 225 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:46,480 I found out there's a place back into the foster care system. 226 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,200 Really honestly, I didn't know what that meant in a lot of ways. 227 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,200 I was like, okay, so what does this mean? 228 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,760 I was shocked because of course I was adopted, 229 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,000 but I think adoption and foster care as we all know is two completely different things. 230 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,960 I really didn't know what foster care was. 231 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,480 I was scared obviously, 232 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,960 but luckily my adoptive family was still heavily a part of my life. 233 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,920 So luckily, they didn't just give up on me in that sense. 234 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,640 It was really just the involvement of the state and having a caseworker, 235 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,280 guardian of light and all of those people that really made it difficult for me. 236 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:26,760 That happened in 2017 and then I was placed back into another facility after that, 237 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:33,120 where I would spend the next four years unfortunately in the foster care system. 238 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:41,560 Throughout those four years, it was really hard because this program was pretty restrictive, 239 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:47,000 and it really forced me to conform to what they wanted me to be. 240 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,560 I was highly medicated, 241 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,560 couldn't have access to the Internet, 242 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,520 really couldn't go on a walk by myself without a staff, 243 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,360 couldn't go to a normal school, 244 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,440 had to do pocket work and all of these things. 245 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,960 As you can see, quite literally a contradiction to where I was, 246 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,280 a couple of years ago, 247 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,800 I've highly involved being super popular at school, 248 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,680 being involved in all these extracurricular activities. 249 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:13,320 Literally quite the opposite of that. 250 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:19,280 It was a complete 360 and it was just really hard on me. 251 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:26,120 Throughout that time, I was able to connect with my adoptive family still obviously, 252 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,920 and talk to them and had home visits periodically, 253 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,680 but was really detrimental on my relationship with them. 254 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:41,520 Then a couple of months after my initial admission to this facility, 255 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,760 I received a phone call shortly, 256 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,960 like a week before my birthday actually, 257 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,880 that my biological father had passed away. 258 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:56,800 That moment, I will never forget because my family was actually on a vacation in Park City, 259 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,280 like we do every year. 260 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,800 I knew his health was bad and all of those things. 261 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,720 I didn't have a phone at the time, but my mom did. 262 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,960 I remember I was sitting on the couch in our room, 263 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,360 and I saw that she's getting a phone call from my biological sister. 264 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,800 The second I saw the phone ring, 265 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:16,920 saw her name on it, 266 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,040 I started bawling and I felt it in my heart that he had passed away. 267 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,200 I'm never going to forget that moment just because I do think that he was speaking to me in 268 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,240 a sense of this is his time and so not trying to be emotional, 269 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,320 but he passed away a couple of days before my birthday and that was really hard on me. 270 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,640 Like I said, I really wanted to get in that relationship with him. 271 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,760 I wanted that ever since I was little, 272 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:46,960 ever since I could remember. 273 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:52,400 I think that was such a huge part of my identity that I think I missed out on. 274 00:15:52,400 --> 00:16:01,600 Moving forward, I spent four years in this program. 275 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,920 It was just a complete waste of time. 276 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,760 That's just how I'm going to put it. 277 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,840 Like I said, I wasn't really able to just be myself and it was really hard in a lot of ways. 278 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Let's see, what was it? 279 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,880 I think come 2020, 280 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,000 I was about at the age of 18 getting ready to graduate high school. 281 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,360 Because of this program, 282 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,840 I wasn't able to really be in mainstream school. 283 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,320 Full transparency, I had nine completed credits. 284 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,240 The reality of graduating high school is absolutely not impossible. 285 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,800 I ended up just getting my GED, 286 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:45,600 graduated with my GED right on time with my actually graduating class of 2020, ironically enough. 287 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,880 One of the parts of graduating for me was being able to walk with my class. 288 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,440 But if you remember, 289 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,760 COVID-19 also ruined the walking graduation for all the 2020 graduates. 290 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,760 Sure did. 291 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,800 Yeah. I didn't even walk anyway. 292 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,760 That was a blessing in disguise. 293 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:06,080 It all works out to end and I accomplished it with everybody else. 294 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,920 That was really great. 295 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,880 Because of all of that, just going through all those things, 296 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,000 I also aged out of foster care at 18. 297 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,200 Spent the next two years really trying to figure things out, 298 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,960 working, finding different friends and supports. 299 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:30,200 Then in 2022 is when I first started to attend Utah Tech University in St. George. 300 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,480 I was studying psychology. 301 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Well, I still am, but I studied psychology there. 302 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,960 It was a really great experience, I think, 303 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:43,000 going from where I was to now knowing that I can be in college and that I can achieve 304 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,560 these things that other people in my life that I could never do, 305 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,680 I think was really inspiring to me. 306 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,240 I basically finished my associates there. 307 00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:01,600 Then I just recently actually got admitted to the University of Utah. 308 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,160 I'll be transferring up there for fall of 2024. 309 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:06,160 Congrats. 310 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,520 Thank you. 311 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,520 I'll be finishing up my bachelor's degree in psychology there. 312 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,320 Then hopefully my goal is to get my PhD in clinical psychology, 313 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,560 either from the U or another institution. 314 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,120 That's a little bit about my foster care experience. 315 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,240 Obviously, you'll hear more about what I'm doing when it comes to giving back to 316 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,720 that community and advocating for change. 317 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,240 Great. Well, I have a couple of questions, 318 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,800 just as follow-up, just for clarification for our listeners. 319 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:42,240 At 15, you were put into basically the state's custody, 320 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,800 when you say you were put back into care. 321 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,680 But at any point, 322 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,760 were you ever put with foster parents or was it just state care? 323 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Yeah. It was actually just state care. 324 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,240 I was never placed with foster parents. 325 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,480 I think if people are familiar a little bit with different placements and 326 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,800 DTFS and stuff, my level was too high. 327 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,720 My behaviors were just too bad, 328 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:12,080 I guess, to be able to be placed with just a regular foster family. 329 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,640 It was just more of these residential programs and institutions. 330 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,480 Wow. So challenging. 331 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,920 I cannot even imagine and so complex. 332 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,880 But we're going to try to learn from your experience. 333 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,520 We're going to unpack quite a bit of that. 334 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,440 Like you said, we'd love to hear about what you're doing right now 335 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,720 to help the community. 336 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,800 First off, this is a very loaded and big question, 337 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,320 but how do you feel like all of these experiences, 338 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240 both being an adoptee and your time in care, 339 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,520 have shaped you to who you are today? 340 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,440 Yeah. It might come as a surprise, 341 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,960 but I'll say it time and time again, 342 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,480 honestly, I wouldn't change it for anything. 343 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:05,800 I think these experiences really allowed me to see the system and 344 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,920 myself in different parts of just the world in general, 345 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,320 actually, and different experiences from just a different light, 346 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,160 a different lens, and so I honestly want to change it. 347 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,960 I would probably go through it time and time again, 348 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,520 actually, if I knew that because of those experiences, 349 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,160 that I'd be in the place that I am currently. 350 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,920 I think those experiences really shaped me to the person I am today, 351 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,840 and I think I want to change that. 352 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:39,000 Awesome. I think that's a really mature answer. 353 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,640 Obviously, there's probably little aspect for every one of us that we would want to 354 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:49,160 change holistically that you're seeing how 355 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,880 your experiences have helped you become who you are today, 356 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,000 and you don't want to change that. 357 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,160 That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. 358 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,200 If there was one thing that you would like others to know or 359 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,200 understand about the adoptee experience, 360 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,240 what would you want them to know? 361 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,840 That's a good one. I could have several answers about obviously, 362 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:23,280 but I think the main one for me would be just the fact that we're just like everybody else. 363 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,280 I think, unfortunately, I think we're getting better at it, 364 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,960 but I think there's some stigma surrounding adoption, 365 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,120 and especially adopting a teen or something like that. 366 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:37,080 I think what I would tell to people looking into fostering or adopting people is just the fact 367 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,400 that we're just like everybody else who wants a home, 368 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,840 who needs that stability, 369 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,080 who needs a caring adult individual in their life to 370 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,720 support them and help them get to where they want to be. 371 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,440 I think we're just like everybody else. 372 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,000 I think the more we just normalize that families look so different for everyone, 373 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,560 regardless of adoption or foster care. 374 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,640 Just in general, there's so many different dynamics to families. 375 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,720 Why is it so different adding this adoption part to it? 376 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,880 I think just normalizing overall and just realizing that these are 377 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,960 just kids or youth or teenagers that just want to be loved. 378 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Yeah. Obviously, you were adopted 20 plus years ago. 379 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,800 Thinking retrospectively, what do you wish your family or 380 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,320 the adoption community would have known or could have done? 381 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,680 In retrospect, knowing what we know today, 382 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,560 what do you wish they could have known or done then? 383 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:45,120 I would say, I think just the fact that I was in that transracial family, 384 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,880 there's a few different perspectives. 385 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,280 I felt like it could have been a little different. 386 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:59,080 I think maybe if my foster parents or my adoptive parents or the state or somebody, 387 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,400 I guess, would have connected them to more resources when it came to 388 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,000 taking care of a black child, 389 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,360 I think would have been really beneficial for me. 390 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:13,720 I was going to great clips to get my hair cut up until I think 12 years old. 391 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,320 Things like that was weird. 392 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,320 But no, my parents, they tried really hard actually. 393 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,920 They found a grader here in St. George to do my sister's braids. 394 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,560 I think I did cornrows one time from her. 395 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,440 My adoptive parents, they honestly tried their best. 396 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,240 But I think as a community as a whole, 397 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,400 actually, I think building on those resources, 398 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,080 making sure that those resources are known within 399 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,320 the adoption community because they're there. 400 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,160 If they're not there, I think what we should be doing is creating those opportunities. 401 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,720 Something that I hope to do down the road is inform 402 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,080 people of the resources that are there when it comes 403 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,360 to adoption and transracial adoptions as well. 404 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:00,840 I think in general, 405 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,680 I think one word that I would just capture all of that is 406 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,040 spreading awareness and spreading knowledge. 407 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,840 I think knowledge is key when it comes to adoption. 408 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,480 I think if my parents or the state could have actively 409 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,560 involved themselves in getting to know more about trauma, 410 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,640 getting to know more about the development of kids in foster care, 411 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,840 or even just the development of them in the womb even, 412 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,520 I think would have been a huge impact on my life. 413 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,320 I think inform knowledge and 414 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,000 just that consistent drive of wanting to learn more, I think. 415 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,160 Yeah. You had mentioned earlier that 416 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,240 two of your sisters have similar racial makeup. 417 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,040 We've also heard from other adoptees like the importance of having 418 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,480 racial mirrors in your life. 419 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,960 When you were children, 420 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,880 did the three of you have anyone else outside of your family that 421 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:05,720 were in your circle or in your community that you felt connected to racially? 422 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,320 A little bit. Yeah. 423 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:15,080 Like I said, we had two hairstylists that were both black as well. 424 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,000 Then we had a lady in our ward that was African-American. 425 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,280 We really liked her actually and we were able to connect with her. 426 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,920 I want to say as much when we were younger, 427 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,800 but I would say early teenagers, 428 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,480 those racial mirrors were more there. 429 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,640 I think with me playing sports and stuff, 430 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,760 I had a black coach and then had a black barber, 431 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,560 and then obviously more black kids in the area. 432 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:47,000 Having differently teammates and school classmates also, 433 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,320 I saw a few people that looked like me as well. 434 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,200 I think just naturally, 435 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,960 I think those racial mirrors appeared, 436 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,920 but I think actively they weren't there as much. 437 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,960 It could have been more intentional. 438 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,600 I think it could have been. 439 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,120 This might be. Okay. Absolutely. 440 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:07,600 More intentional for sure, 441 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,440 but I think just naturally to living in Southern Utah, 442 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,080 there's not many people of color. 443 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,120 I think that affected it, 444 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:21,240 but it's interesting now because I see a little soft spot in my heart. 445 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,720 There's times I go to the grocery store with my mom or whatever, 446 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,400 and I see this white mom pushing around this brown child. 447 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,920 The dad might be black, 448 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,680 but I always think, oh my gosh, 449 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,440 that was me as a child. 450 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,480 There's a lot more people here in St. George. 451 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,880 Like I said, it's just great to see those racial mirrors and see that there's 452 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,960 more diversity within the community that I grew up in. It's really cool. 453 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,280 Thanks for sharing that. How do you navigate this almost dual identity or a sense of 454 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:59,680 belonging to both your adoptive family and your birth family in that culture? 455 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,480 Yeah, it's really difficult. 456 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,160 I've talked to my one sister just about aging with me several times about this, 457 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,840 but it's difficult. 458 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,800 I first really started involving myself with 459 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,160 my biological family in general when my dad passed away. 460 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,160 There's a few of my family members on my mom's side actually that were at his funeral, 461 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,840 and so I connect to both sides actually around the same time. 462 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,160 But yeah, it's difficult. 463 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:39,240 It's a constant battle with myself because I'm just a caring person and I want to love and care for 464 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,680 everybody at the same time I know that I can't force that on other people. 465 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,040 So I think when it comes to some of my biological siblings on my mom's side, 466 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:55,880 it's hard to mend those relationships just because I don't think it's as reciprocated enough. 467 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,720 So that's kind of hard. 468 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,840 But then on my dad's side, I think honestly, 469 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,760 what was I trying to say? 470 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,480 I think effort is an important key when it comes to all of this. 471 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,480 And so I think I definitely put a decent amount of effort into wanting a relationship with them, 472 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,600 and I think they do as well. 473 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,480 But I think it's definitely difficult. 474 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:23,920 Yeah, there's a lot of words I could say, 475 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:29,800 but I'm also that type of person where I kind of I don't want to speak for other people, right? 476 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,640 And so I don't want to make sure certain things. 477 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:41,480 I would say just generally, yeah, I think communication and effort speaks volumes when it comes to relationships in general. 478 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:51,880 But I think that would be the key takeaway point for me when it comes to balancing the dual identity of foster care adoption on both sides. 479 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,320 We're really just the effort into relationship for sure. 480 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:56,880 Maybe building on this a little bit. 481 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:07,720 So you mentioned in the beginning, it was closed or in that you didn't have any type of communication or knowledge of who your biological birth family was, then it opened up. 482 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:14,680 You know, a lot of people listening to this podcast may consider, like, why is open adoption important for the adoptee? 483 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,800 What are the benefits? 484 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:27,880 And obviously, there's challenges that come with it, but maybe could you highlight some of the benefits and maybe some of the challenges that you've faced now that your adoption is open? 485 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,960 Yeah, absolutely. 486 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:38,040 So I would say challenges, like I said, obviously, my parents kind of really hide it, not that they would. 487 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:45,480 But so I remember looking at pictures as a kid and seeing pictures of my biological dad. 488 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:54,720 But I don't think it really like I don't think I was really consciously aware that I was looking at him until I think around that age, like eight, like I said. 489 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:05,160 So knowing that, like, I was adopted and knowing that, like, I had this other family was very interesting to me at the same time, like my family was obviously very loving and caring. 490 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:11,600 And so I didn't feel the need to really explore that until later on in my life. 491 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:19,520 And so but as I look at it now, as I look back on that, I'm like, oh, OK, looking at like my whole depression and anxiety, right? 492 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:35,360 Maybe if I would have had that relationship with my biological father or a sibling or a cousin on my Black side, I might have been able to relate to some of these anxiety triggers I was having due to my racial identity that they could have helped me with. 493 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:44,120 And so I think when it comes to kind of those negative aspects of that closed adoption, I think really are just kind of surrounded around my racial identity. 494 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:57,920 Unfortunately, I think just knowing where I came from now and knowing that, like, I think just knowing the story in general, because I think that was another big part of it, too, is like, OK, why didn't my dad my dad just like raised me or why didn't my mom raised me? 495 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:07,440 I think now that I have those questions answered, I think it's a really it's another part of my healing journey that is really beneficial for me. 496 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,880 But I think those relationships are continuing to grow. 497 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:20,760 But I think knowing where I came from and knowing all of that is really helpful. 498 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:28,400 So how have you dealt with questions or curiosity from others regarding your adoption? 499 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,960 Yeah, I would say up until about like this year, I have dealt with it pretty, pretty good. 500 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:44,240 It's always kind of funny because it's one of those things where like in high school and middle school, I was always asked a question or people always ask the question of like, oh, like, what's something unique about you? 501 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:51,120 And I'd always say like foster care, like I was adopted or something like that, and everyone was like, oh, my gosh, like, no way. That's crazy. 502 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,480 And so I think getting questions like that are very interesting to me. 503 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:06,560 But yeah, what do you feel like some of the misconceptions or stereotypes about adoption are and what would you want people to understand? 504 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:18,400 Yes, probably one that like our parents don't love us or that they didn't care about us or something like that. 505 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:26,920 I would say. Or that like kids and foster care like unwanted, I think that's just a crazy stereotype. 506 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,720 I don't even know where it came up with that one. 507 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,200 I think just things like that are definitely huge misconceptions. 508 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:47,600 How do you feel like the number of experiences you've had in your life now shapes or affects your relationships with others? 509 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,560 Oh, yeah, I would say it's pretty difficult, actually. 510 00:32:52,560 --> 00:33:01,880 I think that's one of the things that well, one of my main things actually that I'm probably going to work on in therapy for the rest of my life is balancing those relationships. 511 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:11,920 I think there's so many caveats to my experiences, you know, being adopted, being in foster care, being in all of these programs that like have shaped me in the person I am today. 512 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,840 And so I think there's a lot of healing when it comes to like, you know, trusting other people. 513 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,120 I think another part of that is actually oversharing. 514 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:29,960 You know, I think that's something that even just this month, you know, because it is foster care awareness month, I've I've never really felt this way before, 515 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:37,480 but it hasn't been up until this month where I've kind of stepped back a little bit and been like, you know what, like I can be that foster care advocate. 516 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,160 I can share my story and I can help people because of that. 517 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,600 At the same time, like that doesn't need to be who I am. 518 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,160 That doesn't need to be my full personality. 519 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,000 And so I think really just balancing. 520 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,520 Yeah, it's really unique, right? It really is. 521 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,920 I think there's a huge push nowadays, obviously, to speak out against things. 522 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,480 And I think there's obviously some really amazing benefits of that. 523 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,800 At the same time, it's like I think there's some things that you can kind of just keep to yourself. 524 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:14,360 And so I think up until this moment, like I have shared a lot of details about my life and a lot of public areas, and I will continue to do that, obviously. 525 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:26,280 But I think instead of, you know, going into my past, I think I'm going to go into the current and the future and my goals that I have now versus the things that I had to go through. 526 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,360 You know, because like I said, all of these things have shaped me into the person I am and I want to change that. 527 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:40,400 And so it's not like I'm forgetting those things, but it's almost like I can help from those things because it's hard, especially like as an advocate and all these things we speak about. 528 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Like, it's constantly reliving that trauma in a lot of ways. 529 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:53,840 And, you know, some psychology and meeting with my therapist, I've realized that like bringing those things up all the time is not healthy for you, unfortunately. 530 00:34:53,840 --> 00:35:08,680 And so I think that's kind of like the current temperature of my life right now is kind of that idea of like not having not feeling the pressure to share every single detail about my life every day. 531 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,160 Yeah, I mean, it's got to be challenging. 532 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:21,640 And I think, you know, if we put all of our identity or focus all of our identity into one aspect of our life and everything revolves around that, 533 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:27,280 when we have ups in that area or downs in that area, it really affects us a lot. 534 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:38,120 Right. And so I get I get the the feeling of kind of spreading it out and not not saying that this is this is me and this is all of me. 535 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,400 But this is a part of who I am. And this is a part of what I've experienced. 536 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,200 But that doesn't define everything. Yeah, that's challenging. 537 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:55,480 How how have your adoptive parents helped you navigate your relationship with your biological parents, your birth parents? 538 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:02,600 Yeah, definitely. I would say, you know, like I said, meeting my family at 15 was really difficult. 539 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:10,000 But since then, they've always really been supportive of, you know, having that relationship with them. 540 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:19,040 I think that's really it's difficult because there's a part of me that's like, I don't want to hurt my adoptive parents. 541 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:25,240 I don't want to hurt them and, you know, be like, oh, I didn't care about them or I didn't love them as much. 542 00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:33,080 And so I think there's a part of me that's really, really what's the word I'm looking for? 543 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:41,680 Resistant, yeah, resistant to connecting with my biological family at the same time, like they've always been fully supportive of that. 544 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:50,720 And so I think just things from like, you know, there's times where like I would even just like get dropped off at them or I was like, hey, I want to go visit my biological cousin. 545 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:54,800 Can you take me to this get together? And I was able to kind of go with them. 546 00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:01,200 And so there has always been kind of like that active commitment to allowing me to have a relationship with them. 547 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:07,640 But I think now as a 22 year old, as an adult, you know, I'm having to navigate that myself, you know. 548 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:15,280 But no, they always my parents always did a great job of being able to allow me to explore that because that's something that they know I really wanted. 549 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,920 So, yeah, I I love how you how you shared that. 550 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,800 My thought was actually my next question was going to be navigating that relationship now as an adult. 551 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:44,040 Any advice for the the adoptee who's a teenager coming up on adulthood or the adoptive parents who have a teenager that's coming up on adulthood and how they can kind of transition that to to the adoptee rather than the adoptive parents? 552 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,840 Yeah, absolutely. I would say just keep an open mind. 553 00:37:47,840 --> 00:38:02,600 You know, I think there's I think for a lot of adoptees, right, we have kind of that, you know, fairy tale ending or that expectation that our biological family are going to be like these perfect, amazing people. 554 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:15,120 Right. And so I think just keeping like an open mind when it comes to that, I know for me, you know, just not knowing much about them in general, there wasn't I don't think I had really high expectations as much. 555 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:22,680 I think the expectations I did have was like, I hope that they want a relationship with me and I hope that like they're in like a good place. 556 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:32,520 And so I think finding that within yourself and knowing that, like, just to keep an open mind and I think just adoption is really difficult. 557 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,200 And so you never kind of know what to expect. 558 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:47,800 And so giving yourself grace, I think that's a word that I'll say time and time again is allowing to find that within your heart that like it's OK, whatever happens or it's OK. 559 00:38:47,800 --> 00:39:04,000 Yeah. Yeah. To the to the teenage adoptee listening to this, what I mean, in addition to giving yourself grace, like what other advice or tips would you share? 560 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:10,400 I would say that it is going to be OK. 561 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:27,440 I think. I was such something that I was really struggling with, you know, as a teenager, like in care, although I did, you know, have that relationship with my adoptive family, like I did feel lost and I did feel scared and I felt like nobody wanted me. 562 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,920 And I was just in this weird place of like wanting to just age out and wanted to be on my own and do my own thing. 563 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:49,120 And and so I think what I would tell the, you know, all the adoptees out there, all the youth in foster care that are getting ready to age out that like it's going to be OK, you know, as long as you are able to just, like I said, find it within yourself and give yourself grace. 564 00:39:49,120 --> 00:40:05,000 And now that like this and that you are adult, like it's not a forever thing and that you are going to be able to overcome those things, you are going to be able to grow as a person despite those experiences and care. 565 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:20,160 And so I think just continuing to grow every day, you know, do something little every single day, just getting up, you know, going outside, reading a book, I think just a little things really honestly add up. 566 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,040 I know for me, obviously, with my passion of music, I think I want to have had music in my life. 567 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:41,240 I want to be in the place I am now. But I think just finding those things that you really enjoy to do and finding your passions and goals in life, I think is really going to be helpful for you when it comes to moving forward in your life. 568 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:48,440 Awesome. And for our listeners, I did hear Kaden sing live and he does have an amazing voice. 569 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:59,440 So I'm glad that that passion has helped you probably even heal but have a place to turn when maybe some of the emotions are challenging to deal with. 570 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:15,440 And yeah, I love that you shared that. Thank you so much. Well, as we begin to wrap up, any kind of parting thoughts or any messages that you would want to leave our listeners with? 571 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:23,440 I would just say, I think the foster care and adoption community as a whole. 572 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:35,440 I think what we really all need is to just come together as a community and support each other. And so I would say for everybody listening, you know, there's so many resources out there. 573 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:47,440 There's so many things you could be doing from reposting something on social media to volunteering for a nonprofit to, you know, opening up your arms to adopting a kid in foster care. 574 00:41:47,440 --> 00:42:04,440 I think it's just going to be so beneficial to this community. I think it's one of those things where it's like if you look statistically, right, like even within this month of foster care awareness month, like, I don't know exactly the number changes every single day. 575 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:18,440 But like, there's been so many kids who have been placed into the foster care system. And so I think being aware of that and being aware that there's so many kids impacted by, you know, adoption and all of that, I think is just going to be something that keeps us going. 576 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:25,440 Something that keeps us on our feet of constantly trying to do something to change this world for better. 577 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:39,440 But yeah, I think honestly just continue to do things that you enjoy and continue to do things that you love and are passionate about is really think what's going to help this community as a whole. 578 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:52,440 Awesome. Well, like I mentioned, you do a lot on social media for our listeners, where can they, where can they connect with you or see some of the see some of the things that you're advocating for on social media. 579 00:42:52,440 --> 00:43:07,440 Yeah, absolutely. So my Instagram is like the main account that I use. So it's my first name and then my middle name so Caden, C-A-D-O-N, and then Riley, R-I-L-E-Y, but I post a lot on there. 580 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:16,440 Like I mentioned, I am a singer songwriter and so I am actually going to be coming out with another song this summer. So hopefully in the next month or so, so be on the lookout for that. 581 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,440 Awesome. 582 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:37,440 Very cool. Well, Caden, thank you so much for being with us. We, we love you. Like Lanette and I have just been felt like just really connected to you after we met a month ago and are inspired by you and are just so grateful for all the work you're doing in this community. 583 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:51,440 Well, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. And likewise, I think meeting you and Lanette was just an amazing experience and being able to kind of hear the things that you guys are doing when it comes to like open adoption, I think is very inspiring and very needed in this world. 584 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,440 And so once again, thank you so much for having me. 585 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,440 You bet. Thanks so much. 586 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:15,440 Well, Caden, thank you so very much for being with us on the show today. It really is such a privilege to know you. We're so thankful for your vulnerability and sharing these personal experiences and thoughts and teaching us and helping us to do better going forward. 587 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,440 I really just love and respect Caden. He's a great person. 588 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:44,440 Yeah. I think from today's conversation, I'm kind of like, trying to walk like, what am I walking away with altogether and I have these just like stronger encouragement or deeper desire to just love and particularly love people who are in circumstances that are less than ideal kind of challenging. 589 00:44:44,440 --> 00:45:04,440 I feel like that's a big takeaway from a lot of our conversations, right? Like in adoption, I think love really needs to be at the center of all we're doing, right? Loving these first parents, loving these children and yeah, love, respect, communication, compassion. 590 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:11,440 These are just really important elements of creating harmony and strong relationships. 591 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:37,440 Yeah. And I love that we could hear from Caden. Our goal and our hope as a podcast, as an organization, is to elevate the voice of adoptees. And while you heard in this conversation, like we recorded this back in May, which was foster care awareness month, and he had been talking at a lot of different engagements and he shared, you know, sometimes it's difficult over sharing. 592 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:45,440 And I think that's the challenge and kind of a balance here, but we really appreciate the fact that he would share his experience so that we can learn from him. 593 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:55,440 Yeah, I feel like that challenge resonates with us. We have a hard time too. I know a lot of people struggle more with the other side of that, right? Like feeling comfortable sharing anything is hard. 594 00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:09,440 But Shaun and I think fall in that same category that Caden was talking about where it's, yeah, we have a harder time trying to make sure we're not sharing too much information. And yeah, it's a hard time. 595 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:22,440 But yeah, I mean, we're just so thankful for him teaching us, helping us and helping the community. He does a lot of work to try to make things better for other individuals in foster care. 596 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:35,440 Yeah. And I actually just had a phone call with him earlier while I was editing and he said he is going to be dropping a new song in the next week or two. So when he does, we'll be sure to include that in our social media as well. 597 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,440 He has a beautiful voice. It was really fun to hear him sing at the Foster Care Symposium. 598 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:47,440 All right. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. And once more again, Caden, thank you for your willingness to be with us. 599 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:55,440 Yep. Keep listening for more adoptee experiences and help us as we strive to keep adoptees at the center of all that we do. 600 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,440 Thank you.