1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,600 Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 101. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,900 And I'm Lanette and we're really excited to be back. We've had a bit of a break for a while. 3 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:14,300 A little longer than we anticipated. 4 00:00:14,300 --> 00:00:19,000 Yeah, we didn't mean for it to be this long, but we'll chat more about that in just a second. 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:19,400 Yeah. 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:25,200 But today we're really excited to be back, to be starting a new season, a new batch of episodes. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:35,400 And today we're talking about some frequently asked questions that we get that we feel like we can kind of roll up into one category. 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:41,200 And they're all regarding relationships and what to do when a relationship gets challenging. 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:47,600 So that's what we'll be talking about later on in this episode. We're really excited to talk about it because it comes up all the time. 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,000 We get so many questions. 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:01:02,200 As we start this new season of the podcast, we are really planning on changing our setup a little bit so that we don't have a specific day or amount of episodes that come out every month. 12 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Life is busy. 13 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,900 Really love doing this and want to keep doing it, but we're just trying to figure out a new system for it. 14 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:12,800 So it's going to be a little bit more sporadic, the dates that episodes come out. 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:22,500 So that's what you can expect this season, but we will be diving a lot into more of the different kind of psychological factors in adoption. 16 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:28,000 We'll be talking with more adoptees and more birth parents and more adoption scholars. 17 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,200 And we're just really excited to dive into all of these new topics and learn more. 18 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,000 Yeah. 19 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaking of adoption scholars, Lanette applied to a PhD program where she, 20 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,300 well, I should say not only applied, but was accepted to a PhD program. 21 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:47,500 This is awkward. 22 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:52,700 Where she'll be studying adoption in marriage, family and human development relationships. 23 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:55,200 Yeah, I'm really excited for this opportunity. 24 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,400 Kind of terrified. 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,700 I'll have to brush off my statistics skills and really hone those. 26 00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:05,000 But we'll have our very own adoption scholar on the podcast. 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:05,500 Hopefully. 28 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:07,700 Yeah. 29 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:08,900 So yeah, that's exciting. 30 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:10,200 Thank you, Shaun. 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,700 I am excited about that. 32 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:13,600 What else have we been up to lately? 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,300 Lots of fun stuff with the family. 34 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:17,000 We've all been kind of sick. 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,900 We put off recording this episode for so long because we've been... 36 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:22,400 We've had coughs for like three weeks. 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,100 Sick for a while and it just isn't going away yet. 38 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:25,700 So... 39 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:27,000 But we're back well enough. 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,500 So... 41 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:28,600 And we're, yeah, we feel fine. 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:28,900 Yeah. 43 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:31,000 We just sound maybe a little subpar today. 44 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:38,300 Yeah, coming up, Lanette and I have been asked to participate in the Utah Foster Care Symposium, 45 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:44,000 their annual symposium that they do, and we'll be leading a panel of adoptees and they'll 46 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,500 be sharing some of their experiences around openness. 47 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:48,200 Yeah, we're really excited about that. 48 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,300 That's on April 25th in Park City, Utah. 49 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:55,600 If you live in Utah and you want to come, we'd love to see you there. 50 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,400 Yeah, message us and we'll give you the information. 51 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,200 And we'll get some new details. 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,000 Yeah. 53 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,400 Yeah, so that's really exciting. 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,100 And then Utah Foster Care has all of that information as well. 55 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:06,200 They are a fantastic organization. 56 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,200 Yeah, it's kind of interesting how we've come connected with them a little bit and have 57 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:16,500 partnered on a few podcast episodes and are excited to get to participate in their symposium. 58 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:17,000 Yeah. 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,600 Yeah, we've been really lucky. 60 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,900 And then also lately I've been working on a research paper. 61 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:27,100 This was part of my application for this PhD program, a research paper examining different 62 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:28,900 experiences with open adoption. 63 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:32,800 And so we've had a lot of kind of fun adoption things going on. 64 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,000 And even though we haven't been here on the podcast, we have been thinking a lot about 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,200 the podcast and about you, our listeners, and how we want to help the adoption community 66 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,400 and what we want to keep learning. 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,800 Yeah, absolutely. 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,300 So we're back. 69 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:48,800 We'll be in your newsfeed. 70 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,800 Expect to hear from us more than you have over the last couple months. 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Yep. 72 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,600 And then one more announcement. 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,100 So we have an ebook that I've been working on. 74 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:05,700 It's basically like what we wish we had known about open adoption going into it. 75 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:11,700 And so it's a guide for open adoption for prospective and adopted parents. 76 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:13,000 And we're really excited about it. 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,300 I think it's hopefully a pretty accessible feeling tool, a good resource, I hope, to 78 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:26,800 help you or anyone in your circles who might benefit from it with understanding how open 79 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,000 adoption can work and how it can benefit adoptees ultimately. 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,000 So we're excited for that to come out in the beginning of April. 81 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:33,500 Yeah. 82 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:34,000 Yeah. 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,500 So we're looking at April 4th, which is the three year anniversary of the podcast. 84 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:40,100 That's why we picked that date. 85 00:04:40,100 --> 00:04:40,800 That's awesome. 86 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,500 Three years. 87 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:42,000 Yeah. 88 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:42,500 Wow. 89 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:43,900 I know. 90 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:44,500 All right. 91 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:47,800 Let's jump in and start talking about the meat of today's episode. 92 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:48,900 Let's go. 93 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:49,800 Okay. 94 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:50,700 It's not me. 95 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:52,100 It's you. 96 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:54,000 I thought that was a funny title for today. 97 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:54,700 But it's true. 98 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:59,200 But that's really, I think, the root of a lot of these different problems. 99 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:06,400 So of course, we want to respect all of the privacy of different people who submit questions 100 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,400 and concerns to us and want feedback on these different things. 101 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:16,000 But often these problems, and we've had these problems too in our adoption relationships, 102 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:22,700 but often these problems basically come down to there's some kind of glitch in a relationship 103 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:28,200 where a biological family member wants something and the adoptive parents don't feel comfortable 104 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:28,700 with it. 105 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:34,900 Or the adoptive parents are asking for something and the biological parents don't feel like 106 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:37,400 they have a voice and can't share what they need. 107 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,000 Or all of these different things. 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:39,500 There's a lot of- 109 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:44,700 Or adoptees feeling like the parents in their relationships aren't listening or susceptible 110 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:47,200 to what they actually want. 111 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:47,700 Yeah. 112 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:49,400 And instead are projecting things onto them. 113 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:56,700 So many different issues, but basically I feel like they boil down to thinking more 114 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:02,500 internally about what we need instead of looking at this bigger picture, which in adoption 115 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:04,900 relationships is essential, right? 116 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:05,500 Yeah. 117 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:09,600 Thinking about the other parties involved and especially about adoptees. 118 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,300 Yeah, I was just going to say there are just so many connections in adoption, whether that's 119 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:19,900 between an adoptee and their birth family or birth siblings. 120 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:21,100 There are just so many- 121 00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:29,300 There can be so many complicated relationships and it's important that we discuss really 122 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:35,300 putting the adoptee first, but also how to navigate and manage relationships around adoption. 123 00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:36,000 Yeah. 124 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,900 And so all of that sounds really good, right? 125 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:41,300 But today we're going to be talking about some practical tips about the how. 126 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:46,900 How do we cultivate these relationships and particularly how do we address challenges 127 00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:49,200 when they arise, whatever those challenges may be, right? 128 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,100 That's there's such a myriad of different issues we could have. 129 00:06:53,100 --> 00:07:00,000 So we get these messages with questions about things like, hey, there's this person in our 130 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,200 adoption relationship, whether it's the adoptive parent or the birth parent who wants to do 131 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,800 this thing that I don't feel comfortable with on behalf of our child, right? 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:10,900 What do I do about this? 133 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:15,000 Or like my child's biological grandparents aren't respecting our family's culture. 134 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:21,300 Or I don't know how to include birth siblings with my other kids who weren't adopted or 135 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:24,000 who don't have birth siblings not feeling left out. 136 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Like there's so many different questions we get. 137 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,800 Those are just a few examples that we tried to tweak a little bit so they don't sound 138 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,300 too close to anything people have sent us. 139 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:40,400 Yeah, but to lay a foundation of having really healthy connections in any relationship, 140 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,900 it really comes down to two important factors. 141 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:49,900 And in our experience, the most important, those two factors, those most important factors 142 00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:51,900 are respect and communication. 143 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:54,100 Yeah, and especially in these adoption relationships. 144 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:57,600 But I feel like these are really foundational in all relationships, right? 145 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,000 This is kind of like a relationship 101. 146 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:07,400 And so when a challenge arises that you're having a hard time looking at, I feel like 147 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:14,400 the best thing to do first is take a step back and say, am I respecting this relationship? 148 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,800 Am I respecting the other party in this relationship? 149 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,000 We want to make sure that we've established a connection that's really deeply rooted in 150 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,000 respect for one another. 151 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:31,800 When I think about adoption relationships, particularly, we're not talking about some 152 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,300 casual acquaintance we have with someone at work or someone that we meet in passing. 153 00:08:37,300 --> 00:08:43,600 We're talking about people that we're going to be connected with and engaging with potentially 154 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,800 for the rest of our lives. 155 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:54,040 And we need to show common courtesy and respect because that's what true relationships are 156 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,600 built upon. 157 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,600 You can't be fake in those relationships and have a real genuine relationship. 158 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:09,200 Well, and your child's birth family, I mean, we believe very strongly should be or become 159 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,600 your family too, right? 160 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:18,680 They're obviously deeply connected to your child, but also they're going to become part 161 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:19,680 of you. 162 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:23,560 And so treating these relationships with respect is so important because these are familial 163 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:26,880 relationships for your child, but hopefully also for you. 164 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:35,080 Yeah, but the challenging part of that is we control our own actions in a relationship 165 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,400 and we can't make others respect other people. 166 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,400 Yeah. 167 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:46,760 And so we can be respectful, but we can't necessarily get that respect back. 168 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:47,760 Yeah. 169 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Yeah. 170 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,280 That is the challenging part about it because for a healthy relationship, you really want 171 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,480 mutual respect and you can't force that. 172 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:56,480 Yeah. 173 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:03,880 But if we're talking about, we've often said that when we meet with birth parents the first 174 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,640 time, it kind of has that first date feeling, right? 175 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,200 Where it's like you're trying to gauge whether this is a good fit for a relationship for 176 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,240 the rest of your life, right? 177 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:21,400 And I feel like with that same dating stream of thought, right, you wouldn't go on a date 178 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,580 with someone who doesn't respect you, right? 179 00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:30,040 And so you don't want to be forging these relationships when there's not mutual respect. 180 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,920 And years ago, we had a woman reach out to us. 181 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,960 She was considering placing her child for adoption with us. 182 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:38,960 Oh, that was a long time ago. 183 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:44,600 It's been a long time and I don't know what happened with her, but as we communicated, 184 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:51,360 I don't think there was any intentional drama. 185 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,960 No one was trying to make this a dramatic, challenging relationship, but we didn't click. 186 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,240 We honestly just did not click with this woman. 187 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,440 She thought that we were trying to be rude or offensive or something and the way that 188 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,160 her messages came across to us, we were like- 189 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,640 It was just really difficult to communicate. 190 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:07,640 It was. 191 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:13,080 And I don't think that that was anything anyone was doing wrong. 192 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,600 We just didn't click and we didn't have mutual respect. 193 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:24,520 And in that very first trying to establish a relationship era of a relationship, if we 194 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,840 don't have mutual respect then I feel like it's going to be more challenging to have 195 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:29,840 it later. 196 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,920 And ultimately we told her we just didn't feel like this was a good fit and I think 197 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,400 she agreed and knew that. 198 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,160 But it's a challenging thing, right? 199 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,160 For sure. 200 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:45,040 And when we choose to adopt and bring a child into our family, like bringing them into our 201 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:52,200 family, that means that we're committing to loving and respecting that child forever. 202 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,880 And through adoption that includes respecting their birth parents, their birth family. 203 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:02,080 And we strongly feel that that's a fundamental requirement to adopting. 204 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,080 Yeah. 205 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:10,600 And so even if there's not respect coming from the other parties in your relationship, 206 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:17,760 I feel like it's so important that we set the precedent of respect and we demand that 207 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,760 of ourselves. 208 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,280 That we show our children that we respect their birth family because, I mean we've 209 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,440 said this so many times, I feel like a broken record, but when we demonstrate that respect 210 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,960 to our kids' birth families, it shows them that we respect them too, right? 211 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,200 They're part of them. 212 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,200 Yeah, exactly. 213 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:40,160 And even if the birth parent relationship isn't ideal, for example, if you have a visit 214 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:47,080 scheduled and for some reason the birth parent doesn't show up, we're not going to badmouth 215 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,800 that birth parent. 216 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,040 We're not going to talk poorly to our child about that birth parent. 217 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:58,120 And while that may be frustrating in a situation, we still need to respect them and know that 218 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,320 they're human and not perfect. 219 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,320 Yeah. 220 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,680 Especially because our children are going to have some similar traits, maybe some similar 221 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:10,120 challenges, and so many different connections to their first family. 222 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,880 And so when we show that love and respect for their birth family, we're showing our 223 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,560 child that we also love and respect them. 224 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:18,560 Yeah. 225 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,660 So just super important to have respect in these relationships. 226 00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:28,400 So occasionally we'll get messages about these really challenging circumstances where birth 227 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,320 parents are experiencing these really big struggles, right? 228 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,420 And adoptive families don't know how to talk about this with the adoptee. 229 00:13:38,420 --> 00:13:43,280 So maybe these are some struggles that a child might be more genetically susceptible to, 230 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,160 like struggles with addiction, for example. 231 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,760 I feel like it's so important to have this open dialogue and talk about that with our 232 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,280 child, not talking about it with everyone else, right? 233 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:57,880 But talking about it with our child. 234 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:58,880 Yeah. 235 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:06,480 So age appropriate and always showing respect, but keeping in mind that the different struggles 236 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,600 that their birth parents are experiencing might be things that they have to deal with 237 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,600 too. 238 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,600 Yeah. 239 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,600 Yeah. 240 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,320 So R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Aretha Franklin had it right. 241 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,400 We have to start with respect without it. 242 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,180 Relationships, true genuine relationships can't form. 243 00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:31,080 Our children are going to see how we truly feel and interact, truly feel toward their 244 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,620 birth family and interact with them. 245 00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:36,520 And if it's, if it's not genuine, they'll know. 246 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,520 Yeah. 247 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,160 And I know that can be hard. 248 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:46,880 Sometimes feelings get hurt or things are done where maybe our pride is hurt or yeah, 249 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:47,880 I don't know. 250 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,920 There's just so many different things that can go poorly, but I feel like doing our very 251 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,640 best to keep that standard of respect is so important. 252 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,560 Not only for these relationships that are so valuable, but also for our relationships 253 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,920 with our children, which is really what it's all about. 254 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:06,920 Yep. 255 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,920 All right. 256 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,880 So Brave Love is this birth parent support organization. 257 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:19,920 It's a 501c3 a nonprofit and they post a lot on social media and recently they conducted 258 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,840 this really big birth parent survey and it was really interesting. 259 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:30,120 I went through and read some of their different findings from the survey and different highlights 260 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:38,960 and the big things that stood out to me were that birth parents generally were more satisfied 261 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,640 with their decision to place their child for adoption if they felt like they received accurate 262 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:52,720 information and they were able to make their decisions without any coercion, which respect, 263 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:53,720 right? 264 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,560 I feel like this all ties together. 265 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,640 Honestly, upfront truth, all the things that go along with respecting someone. 266 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:01,640 Yeah. 267 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,720 And then also interestingly, this doesn't tie in as much with that thread, but birth 268 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,320 mothers who placed their children for adoption in 2010 or later were more likely to report 269 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,220 satisfaction with their decision than birth mothers who placed their children before or 270 00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:18,000 during the 1970s. 271 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,180 I'm not sure there could be mitigating factors there like age at time of taking the survey 272 00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:28,920 or something, but I feel like the way that we treat adoption has changed so much since 273 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:36,640 the 1970s that that's likely also got to do with more autonomy and openness and decision 274 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:37,640 making. 275 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,640 Yeah. 276 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:39,640 Yeah. 277 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:46,480 And then they also found that birth mothers said that they were making these decisions 278 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,800 with their child's best interest at heart, right? 279 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:56,480 And they felt like they received support in their decision from some people and then like 280 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,520 stigma from other people. 281 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:04,840 But the vast majority of birth mothers in this report said that they did feel stigma 282 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,320 associated with being a birth parent. 283 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:14,520 And so the amount of birth mothers who felt like they received stigma for their decision 284 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,680 to place has gone up by 20% since the 1970s. 285 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,560 I thought that was really interesting. 286 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:30,800 So the maybe the culture that exists in the United States, this is where the survey was 287 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:31,800 taken. 288 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,800 Yeah. 289 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,720 And maybe because single parents more accepted now, there's more stigma, but I thought that 290 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,160 was really interesting. 291 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,920 And so I was wondering what we as adoptive parents can do to help combat the stigma that 292 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:51,580 our kids' birth parents might be experiencing as they go about life, trying to be open and 293 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:57,640 authentic about their experiences when they're also experiencing more stigma than birth mothers 294 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,120 decades ago were experiencing. 295 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,120 Yeah. 296 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:01,120 Isn't that interesting? 297 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,880 Well, and I wonder too if because maybe in the 1970s, open adoptions weren't as common. 298 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,680 And so without a relationship, maybe they didn't share the fact that they were a birth 299 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:12,680 parent as much. 300 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:18,600 And so maybe there's more societal openness happening where we're talking about it more. 301 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,040 People hear about it more. 302 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,560 And we live in a very imperfect world where we have lots of judgy people, right? 303 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Yeah. 304 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:26,560 That don't understand. 305 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:27,560 Yeah. 306 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:35,780 And we live in a society also that online and on the internet is way more, they easily 307 00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:42,720 put words out there that have maybe more hurtful kind of punch that they wouldn't say face 308 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,720 to face. 309 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,720 Yeah. 310 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,400 And maybe that's also a factor. 311 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,400 Yeah. 312 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,320 And people are totally different behind the screen than face to face often. 313 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,320 Yeah. 314 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Yeah. 315 00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:01,440 Well, one more interesting finding from this Brave Love survey was that connection really 316 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840 matters to birth parents, particularly birth mothers. 317 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,720 I think that the survey did look at both birth mothers and birth fathers, but it was mostly 318 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,320 looking at birth mothers probably because they had more participants in that regard. 319 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:22,960 But that support is a really important thing for birth parents and that finding adoptive 320 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:29,560 parents who are supportive of them is like a key factor as well. 321 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:35,160 So I was just thinking about how this all ties together, how we can respect and support 322 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,480 the birth parents in our lives and the birth families beyond birth parents too. 323 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:46,880 So I've been thinking about some different ways that we could cultivate respect. 324 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,760 I came up with a list of three things. 325 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,040 Maybe you'll have some other ones to add to it. 326 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,040 Yeah. 327 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,800 So I feel like one way that we can cultivate respect in our adoption relationships is by 328 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:02,840 listening to other birth parents stories like here on our podcast or like Brave Love. 329 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:08,840 They do a great job to sharing birth parent experiences and foster a respectful relationship 330 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,200 with your children's birth family. 331 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,840 So that's my first one. 332 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:13,840 Listening. 333 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,240 My second one was to forgive quickly when there's a misunderstanding. 334 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,240 I feel like those are inevitable, even in wonderful relationships. 335 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,920 There can be so many hiccups. 336 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,880 So to just forgive quickly. 337 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,920 And then number three, don't air your grievances inappropriately. 338 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:36,600 If something comes up and you need to talk about it, talk about it with the person who 339 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,520 you're having a struggle with, right? 340 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,160 Or like go talk in therapy about it, about how to do this more appropriately, but don't 341 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:49,600 just hop on the internet or troll people or I don't know, gossip about it. 342 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:56,600 Yeah, I had one specific thing come to mind, celebrating successes. 343 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:04,660 So I think particularly of one of our child's birth parents who ultimately went to college 344 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:11,620 and graduated and we attended her graduation and she pulled us aside and just said something 345 00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:18,420 like, it means so much to me that you're here and get to experience this with me because 346 00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:20,200 I never thought this would be my story. 347 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,200 That's amazing. 348 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,200 Yeah. 349 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,200 That was a really beautiful day. 350 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,200 I love that. 351 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,200 Yeah. 352 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,200 Celebrating together. 353 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,200 Yeah. 354 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,200 Yeah. 355 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,400 That's beautiful. 356 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,400 So respect. 357 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,920 I think it's just such an important part of every relationship. 358 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,200 And then we also want to talk about communication. 359 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,160 I feel like these two pillars are just so important and building these strong relationships 360 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,960 and getting over whatever challenges come our way. 361 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Yeah. 362 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,640 I think that's just a huge key to any healthy relationship. 363 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,280 Yeah. 364 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,520 So I found just an article on the internet. 365 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,000 I don't know if it's a great article or not, but I thought it would be a good way for us 366 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,960 to explore communication and relationships together. 367 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:05,200 So it's called Relationship RX, Prescriptions for Lasting Love and Deeper Connection. 368 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,080 It's by Jessica Griffin and Pepper Schwartz. 369 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,080 That's a cool name. 370 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,120 And it was published by Roman and Littlefield Publishers. 371 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:19,760 Okay so these authors say that from what they've learned and what they've studied, what makes 372 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:26,440 relationships successful or what makes them fail is ultimately communication. 373 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,800 And so they talk about reflective listening, which they say is this really powerful tool 374 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,800 to strengthen relationships and communication. 375 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,520 So I wanted to just go through and talk a little about some of the things they shared. 376 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,520 Great. 377 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,520 Wanted to make sure we attribute this to them. 378 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,520 For sure. 379 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:46,640 So reflective listening can help save any relationship from disaster, the authors claim. 380 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,080 I know that's like a big thing. 381 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,440 So I thought we should talk about what is reflective listening. 382 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,920 So the goal of reflective listening isn't to solve the problem for the other person, 383 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,120 but rather for them to feel validated and heard. 384 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:02,120 Yeah. 385 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:05,480 So reflective listening is like when think of reflections, right? 386 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,760 It's like showing that you're hearing what the person is saying. 387 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:16,160 So from what I'm hearing, you're saying this and using these tools to show. 388 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040 You hear, you understand, make sure that you're on the same page. 389 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,520 And these are things that are from Crucial Conversations as well. 390 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,680 I feel like we talk about that book a lot. 391 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,220 It's a great book for adoption relationships. 392 00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:31,880 And if we've done it right, then the feeling of the person talking should be like, okay, 393 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,920 I feel understood now. 394 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:34,920 Yeah. 395 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,560 And so then when we're sure that our opinions are being respected and we're being heard 396 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:48,520 and understood, then it's easier for us to get through these disagreements or differences 397 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,720 because we don't feel that threatening feeling of they aren't listening, they don't understand 398 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:54,720 me. 399 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:55,720 Right? 400 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:56,720 Yeah. 401 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,600 And so reflective listening, I thought that was really interesting. 402 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:59,600 Yeah. 403 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:09,840 And so these authors had 10 steps for working through conflict with reflective listening. 404 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,880 So the first one was to find a quiet place where you can both sit down and make eye contact. 405 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,880 Yeah. 406 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Eye contact is really important. 407 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,880 And sometimes that's not really possible because of the distance in our relationship, but with 408 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,360 technology, it kind of is possible. 409 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,360 Yeah. 410 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:27,360 Yeah. 411 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:33,480 And I think that between Zoom or other face to face technology bridges that gap to an 412 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,680 extent for sure. 413 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,760 So do it face to face using FaceTime or whatever you want to do that will help. 414 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:47,640 But yeah, trying to have a really hard conversation like that over text, it's so hard to have 415 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,400 these quality and challenging discussions in other ways, right? 416 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,560 Because the eye contact is so important. 417 00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:00,160 I feel like it helps us better connect and better understand how the other person's feeling. 418 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:06,520 And so yeah, definitely try to like have these conversations in real time. 419 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,520 Yeah, for sure. 420 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Yeah. 421 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,520 Okay. 422 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,800 So then they say to introduce the conversation and allow your partner. 423 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,080 And in this case, we're using partner interchangeably with other family members, right? 424 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,080 Like in adoption relationships. 425 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,960 Allow your partner to speak freely without interrupting. 426 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:31,680 So when we argue, me and Shaun, I feel like we both have a hard time with not interrupting, 427 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:32,680 right? 428 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,680 I feel like that's pretty common. 429 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,680 Yeah. 430 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,680 I think we can confess that. 431 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:38,680 Yeah. 432 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,680 We argue? 433 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,680 Uh huh. 434 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:41,680 Yeah. 435 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,680 We're not the models of perfect relationships all the time. 436 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,080 We're most of the time. 437 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,080 No, you're funny. 438 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,680 But yeah, so allow them to speak without interrupting and then check yourself during the conversation 439 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,960 to make sure you're not like sighing, rolling your eyes, but instead remember that you're 440 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:06,840 trying to understand and listen for understanding, not to project your own feelings during this 441 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:07,840 conversation. 442 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Yeah. 443 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,640 And that goes back to respect too, right? 444 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,600 Like respectful listening. 445 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,760 Okay. 446 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,200 And then it's also important. 447 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:22,480 This is like the reflective listening coming into play to show that you're really there 448 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,480 in the conversation. 449 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,960 Like maybe repeating back what your partner says or saying, what I hear you're saying 450 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,920 is paraphrasing what they've said. 451 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:31,920 Yeah. 452 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:32,920 Yeah. 453 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,680 And taking note of how they're feeling. 454 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,680 Yeah. 455 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,760 So this takes a little bit of emotional intelligence, right? 456 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:46,720 To read the room, read the situation, understand why someone's saying something the way they 457 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,960 are and how, yeah, it takes intent. 458 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:52,960 Absolutely. 459 00:26:52,960 --> 00:27:01,320 So yeah, like it sounds to me like maybe you're feeling insecure or whatever it might be. 460 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,320 Okay. 461 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,320 And then also fact checking. 462 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,320 Fact checking. 463 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,320 Yes. 464 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Making sure that we are asking questions like, did I understand that correctly or did I hear 465 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,440 that right? 466 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,520 Did I misunderstand anything or did I miss anything in what you said? 467 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,520 Yeah. 468 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:22,960 And then express appreciation for your partner or for your family member for sharing and 469 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,440 opening up. 470 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:25,440 Yep. 471 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:32,640 And I think a really important part of any relationship and in communicating is making 472 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:40,920 sure that we apologize for any issues that we may have caused and that we're sincere 473 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,400 in those apologies. 474 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560 Yeah, absolutely. 475 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:51,360 And then we want to address the problem and find a way to a solution, right? 476 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:58,680 We want to solve the problem together instead of looking at this as like conflict anymore. 477 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,800 We want to overcome it. 478 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:02,800 Yeah. 479 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:03,960 And that's the last step, right? 480 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,960 That's not where we go first, right? 481 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,640 Like how do we solve this problem? 482 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,200 It's instead of listening and getting there to the point where we can actually solve it 483 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,240 together. 484 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:20,160 So I thought that those were some helpful tools getting through some of these challenges 485 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,160 in communication. 486 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,160 All right. 487 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,560 So to recap, we need to respect each other and we need to communicate with each other 488 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:34,840 and we want to focus on the adoptees and their experiences and work to improving those rather 489 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:42,520 than being comfortable with ourselves as parents or looking to like focus on our feelings. 490 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,840 We really want to make sure that we're keeping our focuses on adoptee experiences and keeping 491 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,000 respect and communication at the front and center of these relationships. 492 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,880 Yeah, for sure. 493 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,720 I think a great episode that you could reference back to or think about when we're talking 494 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:06,040 to this is the episode that we did with Amy and Stephanie. 495 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,960 They are moms that share the same children. 496 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,160 One was a foster parent who adopted the other's children. 497 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,160 Yeah. 498 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,540 Yeah, they're wonderful. 499 00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:19,520 That's one of my favorite episodes we've done. 500 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,400 The episode is called Motherhood, Different and Equal. 501 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,040 So I would definitely cross-reference with that one on this topic. 502 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,960 I loved their example of how they built respect. 503 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,160 It took time and how they strengthened communication, which also took time. 504 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,880 It was a process, but now they have this really strong bond with each other and they're united 505 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:47,880 in their motherhood and it's so good and powerful hearing about how it's helped them and their 506 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,880 children. 507 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,400 I think to just reinforce a couple things that we've shared in the past and have alluded 508 00:29:53,400 --> 00:30:00,320 to in this episode, relationships don't happen because your paths are crossing, right? 509 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,360 You have to be intentional. 510 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,460 You have to work toward a relationship. 511 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:09,960 It takes time to get to know each other, to communicate, to understand people. 512 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,120 That's a process and that was clear in that episode too, that in the beginning it was 513 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,120 a challenge. 514 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,320 It was very difficult. 515 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:21,640 But if we put the adoptee in the center of our relationship, yeah, it's a lot easier 516 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:29,080 to put more meaningful work into those relationships because we know that it really matters. 517 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,080 Yeah. 518 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,080 Yeah. 519 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,080 Keeping that focus. 520 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,080 I love that. 521 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,520 Well, we are really excited to be back. 522 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,440 We're hoping to have a few more episodes over the next couple of weeks. 523 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,280 Thanks to each of you for listening to this episode. 524 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:48,040 If you find our podcast helpful, we invite you to share it with others that you think 525 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,040 it will help. 526 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:56,220 We are here as a resource to the adoption community to help learn and grow together. 527 00:30:56,220 --> 00:31:02,920 Doing this over the last three years has taught us so much about a lot of things that we didn't 528 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:03,920 know. 529 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:04,920 Yeah. 530 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,400 I mean, honestly, I feel like, I mean, we're still very subpar in a lot of our efforts, 531 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,160 but I feel like it's really helped us improve and enhance the way that we parent and the 532 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600 way that we connect with our kids' birth families. 533 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:23,520 And as I said, we do have a long way to go, but it's been so helpful for us and hopefully 534 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,000 helpful for you too. 535 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,000 Yeah. 536 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,520 And so we want to be here as a resource for you. 537 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,440 If you have any specific questions or topics that you would like for us to address that 538 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,480 we haven't, or even if we have, we can rehash them, please send us a message on social media 539 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,480 or at openadoptionproject.gmail.com. 540 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,280 Yeah and if you have any experiences that you would like to share about how respect 541 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:51,520 and communication have enhanced your relationships and your adoption experiences, we would love 542 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,520 to hear them. 543 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,520 Awesome. 544 00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:11,720 Thank you for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project.