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Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We are the Nelsons. I'm Shaun.

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And I'm Lanette. And we are excited to be back with more episodes for our celebration of National Adoption Month.

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Yeah, we hope that the things that we share this month, typically about three episodes a week,

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will help you in your observation of and recognition of National Adoption Month.

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Yeah, we're really grateful for the opportunity to be sharing different perspectives and opinions

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and always looking for that chance to learn. It's really one of our big themes here to listen and learn,

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especially listen and learn from adoptees, but also from birth parents.

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There's always something new that we can learn to help us do better going forward.

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Yeah, so this month we're putting out several episodes a week.

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You'll hear episodes conducted by us or by Alicia Gallacher, who's our Director of Communications.

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And again, we just hope to kind of flood the podcast sphere with adoption content for this month.

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Also, we're getting really close to 100 episodes, which is super exciting.

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So this is helping with that too. Little side perk.

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Perfect.

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So we hope you enjoy this episode. And at the end, we'll chat just a little bit about our newsletter.

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If you are not subscribed to our newsletter, I'll ask you right now to go ahead and look it up.

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If you're interested in getting more adoption related content in your inbox.

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So go on over to openadoptionproject.org and click on newsletter to sign up.

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Hey friends, we are so excited to be here with another episode.

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So this is a kind of less traditional episode.

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But last week we had a special adoptee takeover on our Instagram where we were able to hear from a few different adoptees

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or adopted people about their perspectives on different topics.

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And there were some really great thoughts shared.

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We thought it would be really fun to capture them here on the podcast as well.

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Since we have a lot of people who listen to the podcast who don't follow us on Instagram.

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Yeah. So we're going to have these about minute clips from each of these adoptees.

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And we basically the prompts that we gave them was to share something that you would want someone to know.

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During this adoption awareness month, what would you share?

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What would you want people to know?

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So we're going to play brief clips from four of our friends and kind of jump in with some thoughts after each clip.

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Maybe share a couple of the things that we've learned as we've done the podcast over the last two years.

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And especially learned from our friends who are adoptees.

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So this first clip is from our friend, Melaina Rogers.

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Hey guys, my name is Melaina Rogers and I'm an international adoptee.

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Lanette and Shaun asked me to share something about adoption that I think would help people or something like that.

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One of the biggest things I remember growing up is when people would find out I was adopted,

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they'd be like, well, where's your real mom?

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Are you sad that you don't know your real mom?

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Because my adoption is closed.

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And honestly, that would confuse me when I was little because I'm like, well, my mom's over there, like my, you know, my half my mom.

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So just make sure like I know there's so much, you know, language and different words that you can use in the adoption community.

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And so just if you go into talking to people with an open heart, they're going to be more than willing to answer anything.

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So that's one tidbit I would have to share about adoption.

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So as Melaina was talking, I kept thinking about how important it is for us to be focusing on adoptee centered language.

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That's a concept we talked about a few episodes ago, but I think it's really important to talk about continually because it's kind of an abstract concept.

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Yeah. I remember when we were being introduced to adoption in the very beginning.

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I mean, that was like 14 years ago now for us.

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We were introduced to positive adoption language, which does its best to paint everything in the best light and to put a positive spin on things.

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But it doesn't always it's not always focused on the adoptee.

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Absolutely. Well, and it can just ring false for some people and other people like that.

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But the real goal of having using adoptee centered language is using the language that the person you're talking to feels comfortable with.

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Right. And so it's complicated because we don't just have a list of, hey, these are the words you should use.

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But instead, it's you should be respectful.

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You should be gauging whether the words you're using feel appropriate to the person you're talking to.

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And it should be focused on the adoptee or the adopted individual.

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Yeah. So maybe an example of that, if you're talking to someone who is adopted, you might say, like, how do you refer to your first parents?

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Are they your birth parents, your first parents, your biological parents, mom, dad?

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Like, what do you refer to them as? And we can learn that adoptee's perspective.

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Yeah, I love that. Well, and another thing that Milena said that I loved, she said, as long as you go into it with an open heart.

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And when she said that, I thought, man, yeah, if we are open to hearing maybe a language correction or hearing, oh, you know, I don't feel comfortable with that language or even, you know, I don't really want to share about that right now.

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I don't feel comfortable talking about this right now.

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If we have that open heart where we're okay hearing that, then we can create safety for potential future discussions because we're not focusing on ourselves and what we want, but instead focusing on what feels right to this person who we're talking to and instead respecting their boundaries, their preferred language, etc.

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Right. It's a complicated thing to talk about because it's going to be so different for every person.

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Yeah. Yeah, but keeping it focused on the adoptee and what they need.

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Yeah, and I think when you're going into any conversation, like, don't just assume you know somebody else's experience.

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It makes me think of the book Crucial Conversations, and there's this one aspect of having difficult conversations, not that talks or conversations about adoption are difficult, but it says that we should.

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Yeah, they sure can. Yeah, for sure. I was just not all of them are going to be.

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But one of the one of the pieces of advice from that book is to talk tentatively.

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And so, basically, that's really recognizing that you don't know the whole story or you don't, you don't know everything and entering a conversation that way.

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Yeah, so you're open to learning you're open to correction you're open to yeah guidance and changing direction.

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You want to get more information to put into your conversation of shared meaning. Absolutely. Yes, the pool of shared meaning Crucial Conversations is a great book by the way we highly recommend it.

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It's been so helpful for us and having important adoption related dialogues. Yeah. Awesome. Well, the next person that we're going to hear from is Sarah Vanderhagen.

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Hi, I'm Sarah Vanderhagen. I'm an adopted person I grew up in an open adoption I am also an adoptive parent, raising a child in an open adoption.

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And one thing that I really wish people understood is how important it is for adopted people to be surrounded by connections with other adopted people.

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So for example, I grew up with a sister who is also adopted, and I had several cousins who were adopted as well.

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We are surrounding our daughter, besides just the relationship with me as a fellow adoptee with other children and adults who are adopted, so making sure that we have people to process with and share the really varied experiences across adopted

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people, and also to just give us that connection that we need with other folks who've also been adopted so that our, our experience isn't weird or treated as sort of unusual.

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So that's been really important to me. And I hope you'll consider that as well. Thanks.

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I loved hearing Sarah talk about the importance of surrounding adopted people with others who are also adopted. I think that's a really important consideration and it makes sense right?

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Yeah, for sure. And I think, I mean, along with that just helping, however we can help adoptees feel like their situation their circumstances normal.

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And normalize that. So yeah, no one wants to feel like this weird like the outcast. Yeah, or like everyone's observing you right or like you're in a clinical study in your life all the time.

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I don't know. Yeah, that's not a great feeling. So I love that idea of surrounding adopted people with others who are also adopted.

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And I think just a tangential thought that came to my mind has come from several black adoptees that we have to talk to, or adoptees of color that, or even adoptees internationally in my mind is just kind of rolling on lots of people that I'm thinking of now, making sure that there are different racial

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mirrors or cultural mirrors available to them. So again, they don't feel like the odd man out. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really important part of all aspects of adoption and I think it's a really important thing to talk about, especially because we do talk about racial

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and cultural mirrors a lot, but I don't feel like we talk as much about having, I don't know what you'd call it, but like colleagues and friends and others in your community and your circle who also were adopted right like that.

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It's not really a mirror but people with shared experiences who can relate and connect on these different levels that others might not be able to. Yeah, it reminds me when we spoke with Rob Reese, and he said that just a weekend a year that he would

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go to this camp with other children that were adopted from the same country he was adopted from, and he said that some of those guys became like really close friends and they still are, which I think is just really impactful and it I think highlights what Sarah shared that

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it's important to connect people so that they have that community. I love that so much. All right, next we're going to hear from Dakota. Hey guys, my name is Dakota, I'm 26, and I was adopted as an infant.

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I'm excited that Open Adoption Project has asked me to kind of share a couple thoughts for National Adoption Awareness Month, and the things that I've been thinking about recently, primarily follow under like the umbrella of communication.

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The first one is don't be afraid to ask questions. Very rarely are people kind of stubborn about their story. I would say just as the opposite frequently people want to share their experiences their feelings help other people out, and just like, you know, teach people

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and second is, is transparency, whether that's with parents and their children or vice versa or with family or friends or any interested party that wants to know about the experience.

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Don't be afraid to ask questions and then also don't be afraid to tell the truth.

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And, yeah. And then lastly is don't make assumptions. Just because someone has an open adoption versus a closed adoption or an embryo adoption everything is different adoption so complex, and you can't judge one is better than the other.

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So, feel free to reach out to me if you guys have any questions I hope you have a great November. Happy Thanksgiving and happy holidays.

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I loved when Dakota said don't be afraid to tell the truth. I feel like that is a huge topic that we could talk about for hours.

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Yeah, and we have. Yeah, but I think that as we've talked to a lot of adoptees, especially they've shared, you know, I would have really benefited as a child or as a teenager or whatever part of their life, having known more of more the information.

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And of course, as adoptive parents, we want to provide for them as much information as we can, and obviously do it in age appropriate ways so that they really understand their true story, and then give them more and more details as it's as it's better for them.

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Yeah, but you never want to lie. Right. Yeah. And so yeah, I think that's so important to reiterate over and over like, don't be afraid to tell the truth. In fact, do always always tell the truth.

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Sometimes, I mean, we've got some hard parts of stories that we share, and we can do that in ways that don't overwhelm a child and that are compassionate and kind to birth family. Yeah, you can tell the truth in ways that are conscientious to everyone.

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Yeah, absolutely. So we did a very casual Instagram survey. I don't think we had a ton of respondents either. But with this story, we asked how adoptees feel about sharing their story. And it looked like we had a few birth parents who also answered, which I think is awesome.

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And so it's kind of mixed those nothing scientific we can't write any journals or scholarly articles about this, but 67% of those who were surveyed said that they like talking about their adoption story and 11% said no, they do not like talking about it.

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And 22% said it depends, which I thought that was probably about what I would predict for the venue to because it's an Instagram page of people who are talking about adoption, probably a little more. Yeah, it's so interesting to like, for example,

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when I had dinner this week with some people that we had never met before. And when we were introducing ourselves. I said that we have four children, and then I just felt like I should tell them that they are kids were adopted. And it's not like a normal thing would slip into every conversation.

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Yeah, and it turns out there are two daughters were also adopted. And so we had like this instant connection. Yeah, and it's cool. Like, it's a way to connect and, yeah, build community. Yeah, which is great. But yeah, at the same time, you also have to tread kind of carefully.

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Yeah, because it can be really awkward. And some people I don't want to talk to about stuff like that. I don't know. Yeah, it's tricky. For me. I mean, we weren't serving adoptive parents really. But for me, I'd say for me, it depends on if I want to talk about or not, because it depends on if I have a feeling of safety with that person.

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Do I feel comfortable with them? Do I feel like I can trust them? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's just complicated. No, we also had a follow up question, whereas some people entered a little text box entry for the question, what do you say when you don't feel like answering adoption questions?

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And so these were four of the replies that we got. We had someone say I repeat the question slowly, maybe with a raised eyebrow, and they'll realize how it sounds. Another one said I changed the subject. Another said I'll say that's a very personal question and I don't feel comfortable saying. And then another person said I'll just give a short answer or change the subject.

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And then that's favorite. I'm sure you didn't mean I'm sure you didn't mean to say it that way. Or yeah, I don't think you meant that the way it sounded. Yeah. Anyway, thanks to Koda. That brings on a lot of thought. Again, we can talk about this for a really long time. Yeah, these guys are also great. Yeah. All right. Last we're going to hear from our friend Jory. Hey, adoption community. My name is Jory and it is National Adoption Awareness Month. And I just wanted to say thank you for joining us.

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It's National Adoption Awareness Month. And I just wanted to share what I feel like should be known about adoption. I am an adoptee and a birth mom that placed 15 years ago.

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Adoption is a lifelong journey. It ebbs and it flows. You don't just adopt a baby and that's the end and you don't place a baby and that's the end. It's adoption is lifelong. And I just want you to know that it's joy and it's pain and it's hard and it can be smooth.

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It's love and it's hard. But adoption has brought many blessings. I hope you're having a great month.

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I love Jory. I love all of these people. We've been really lucky to form so many amazing connections. Seriously. Yeah. In this community.

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All right. Adoption is a lifelong journey. I love that. And so true. It really resonated with me.

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Yeah. I think as the novice adoptive parents going into this, we probably understood that to a degree. But really the connections that we're making with biological family, the obviously the tie and connection that we have to this child that we're adopting, that is part of the rest of our life.

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And so I think that just needs to be on the forefront of anyone who's considering adoption that this is going to be part of the culture of your family for the rest of your life. Yeah. It's not like you sign the papers and it's done and you never have to talk about it again.

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Yeah, it shouldn't be like that. Yeah. That's when it starts really. Yeah. And I also loved so Jory said sometimes hard things will resurface and that's really true. Right. It's not like you overcome trauma and pain and loss and then it's gone forever either. Right.

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It's also a lifelong journey. Yeah. And there could be things that trigger different thoughts and emotions and feelings. Yeah. Okay. So I hope this isn't too out there guys, but I really love Canada and I really like the show Heartland. It's a Canadian show and Shaun rolling his eyes.

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I really hate, I love this show, but there was a recent episode in their newest season where one of the main characters starts remembering something that was traumatic to her from her childhood and she's an adult now.

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She's not sleeping well and affecting every aspect of her life and she's like this feels so stupid right it's not a big deal I'm over this, but she wasn't over it. It was this old trauma that she had freshly felt wounded over right and she had to address it to heal.

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So it makes me think of that, where sometimes we feel like we're in a good spot and we've healed and we're doing well and then other times, we might slide back and we might need more help.

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And that's okay and it just really reiterates to me the importance of continually learning continually listening to other stories and being open to this lifelong learning process really.

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Yeah, I think the only way I mean not the only way but one of the ways that we've experienced that is with infertility. I feel like I mean, we have four children, we, you know, adoption helped us overcome childlessness.

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It didn't overcome our infertility, but I think most of the time, our infertility is kind of just like out of the picture.

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That's not the case for everybody but yeah for us it's really not something we.

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For us it feels like very far in the past. Yeah, but there are moments where things kind of pop up and it's like, oh, oh yeah, that kind of hurts still.

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Or that still has this difficult part of me. There might be a little sting that you thought wasn't there anymore. Yeah, interesting.

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Yeah, it's a lifelong journey. I love that. So well said Jori and it's really the reason we're here with this podcast so that we can keep listening, keep learning, keep growing and keep addressing things as we keep

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on through the lifelong journey. It sounds so daunting, right? Yep, but it's good.

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And I mean, I think as we continually put the adoptee's voice in the center of this conversation and make sure that we're listening, make sure that we're listening to experiences and a variety of experiences.

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So we in the adoption community best know how to serve and help. I think that's really important.

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In the next episode, we're also going to hear from one more adoptee and kind of build on some of the thoughts that she shared. Yeah, from this adoptee takeover from Instagram.

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Yeah, so we have a little bit more coming soon. But yeah, it was really fun to hear from these guys and we actually have done episodes with all four of these people we heard from today.

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So you can look up their episodes. They've been on the show before and they're all excellent people. We're so grateful for them sharing with us.

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Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. Yeah, we're so grateful to be able to share a lot of content this month, November 2023 for National Adoption Month.

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Yeah, so we just would love to remind you to subscribe to our newsletter. If you have not done that yet, you can go to openadoptionproject.org and click on newsletter and there's a subscription form right there that you can fill out.

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Also connect with us on social media. We're on Instagram and Facebook at Open Adoption Project.

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Thank you so much for being here and learning with us as we just keep talking and learning about all of these different nuances of adoption.

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Thank you.